Immanuel Christian School, a private faith-based institution in Springfield, Virginia, requires students and faculty to "live a personal life of moral purity," a pledge that includes renouncing premarital sex, polygamy, sexual harassment, sex abuse and - you guessed it - homosexuality.
Such policies are not unusual at many private religious schools. So why did this particular school land in the microscope, reigniting debate about religious discrimination against the LGBT community? Second Lady Karen Pence, wife of Vice President Mike Pence, recently announced she'll be taking a position at Immanuel Christian.
Anger Ensues
The announcement prompted an angry response from critics, many of whom think it inappropriate for such a high-profile government figure to be working for a religious institution that bars LGBT members.
Not only does the elementary school bar teachers from either condoning "homosexual or lesbian sexual activity" and "transgender identity," but a
In other words, gays and their parents need
Guided by Faith
Vice President Mike Pence has made no secret of his strong opposition to gay marriage on account of his Christian evangelical beliefs. He has publicly supported the controversial practice of gay conversion therapy and signed what many activists called a discriminatory anti-LGBT bill while governor of Indiana. In 2018, he'd become the first vice-president to speak at the Family Research Council's annual conference, an organization the Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled a "hate group".
Pence was quick to defend his wife, however, telling a Catholic news network that America has a rich tradition of religious education and that "to see major news organizations attacking Christian education is deeply offensive to us."
And others spoke up in defense of the second lady teaching at a religious school. "It's absurd that her decision to teach art to children at a Christian school, and the school's religious beliefs, are under attack," declared spokeswoman Kara Brooks.
Should it Be Allowed?
The public remains split as to whether Karen Pence's actions violate any principles regarding the separation of church and state principles. On the one hand, taxpayer money is going to subsidize the couple's housing and other living costs. And beyond financial issues, critics argue that it's simply a bad idea for government officials to be involved in with discriminatory religious organizatioins while in office.
On the other hand, supporters think the second lady should be free to exercise her faith however she pleases even if that means working at a school with anti-LGBT policies.
Where do you stand?
108 comments
-
Larry Larson
We didn't elect Karen Pence. She does not receive a paycheck from the US government. This whole discussion seems rooted in the culturally embedded belief (Christian in origin) that a woman must not be independent, that she must "cleave" to her husband. So ironically, those who are arguing that she should not do this work because you don't like Christian condemnation of homosexuality, are simultaneously voicing your support for the equally Christian demand that women not act independently of their husbands.
So would you also logically extend this belief in her lack of independence to say that Mike Pence should "order" her not to do this? What if she was married to Bernie Sanders? Would you expect him to "order" her to be nice? Or perhaps you also believe that women simply shouldn't be allowed to work outside the home at all? Perhaps you believe she is his property?
I believe Karen Pence can think and act on her own independently, as should all women with the good fortune to live under American law. She is not an elected official and therefore not a representative of the US government. Nor is she under oath to defend the Constitution. Mike Pence is under such an oath.
As one who fits somewhere under that LGBTQ umbrella I personally think it would be nice if she had different views. Maybe we will meet someday and actually get to know one another. In any case, she can be her own woman in America under American law.
-
Postol Front
This is different! An LGBT who is not an angry, demanding, spoiled, radical, looting, rioting leftover! There is hope for you yet! Ever thought of converting?
-
-
Pat
I thought the church and state amendment, meant the state cannot make us follow a state religion.
-
Postol Front
Nobody's forcing you to go to that school, are they??
-
-
Rev Ned
It’s a free country... for now.
-
Bro. Chas
It is well within Mrs. Pence's legal, religious and moral rights to work at this school and take the position they have regarding the LGBTQ lifestyle choice. Christians are called to love their neighbor (others) regardless of their sin. Homosexuality and deviant sexual behavior is clearly defined as a sin in the Bible. However, the Bible also considers it a sin if a person (Christian) condones or supports this behavior. These are all truths! Christians must love the LGBTQ person, but not accept or condone the behavior. Those opposed to the school's and Mrs. Pence's position need to separate feelings and rights. Being loud, throwing around derogatory names, and misinterpreting the law does not make for a solid argument or case and makes many commenters sound foolish and very ill-informed. This same group of people believe that if you don't believe what they believe, then you must be wrong. The reality is that that attitude and belief system is what is truly wrong.
-
Bob
Of course it's ok. It's a private school and they can choose to admit whomever they want. This, however, is exactly why no tax dollars should be going to any school other than a public school. School choice is just a better sounding term to allow government funds to support schools with narrow religious beliefs. Everyone has school choice - you can go to the free school provided by government funds or you can pay to go to an alternative school.
As for Mrs. Pence, it should be no surprise to anyone familiar with their beliefs. You get to show your approval or disapproval at the voting booth. It's a free country, she can associate herself with whomever she chooses.
-
Darrell he’bert
What is up with the universal life church putting something out with a leading headline like that. “Takes job at anti lgtbqu school”. How about, takes job at a wonderful Christian school loving and serving children and a few leftists get “triggered”. That sounds more accurate. D
-
flugo
Excellent, Darrell! It was an emotive, slanted posting!
-
-
Lyn
There is only one issue really. As “second lady”, should Mrs. Pence work at such a descriminatory institution? As long as she’s married to the Vice President of the United States, no she should not. After her husband is out of office she can do whatever she wants. In the meantime, she’s NOT a private individual and must reflect the laws of the land. If it is illegal to descriminate against certain people, then she cannot work for an institution that teaches those descriminatory practices.
It just seems to me to be common sense. And I might add that no one is asking her to work on behalf of things that conflict with her moral principles. Just not act on those principles.
-
Minister V
If the school feels that strongly about living according to biblical principles, how dis Karen Pence get that job there? Mike is not her first husband, and that original marriage did not end because of a death. (that whole "until death parts us"/"til death do us part")
Ergo, she's an adulterer, as is Mike Pence for having carnal relations with another man's wife. So how is this "christian" school not violating their own principles by having hired her?
-
JEFF L BROWN
Not a problem at all. 1st amendment is protected under law. And is a GOD given right to Americans. Can't do this outside of America. It's a shame people are so outraged over someone's beliefs. Plus people this is a religious school. I mean these other people think they are a different gender for crying out loud! Gender dysphoria is a real problem. 50% of them are killing themselves. This is a serious mental problem that's being pushed on kids who are already confused. They need help not laws and regulations to pander to them.
-
NotNotOffendedOfTheGospel
I am pleased to hear this news! Thank you, 2nd Lady Pence for your moral fortitude and Christian principles. It's time we as Americans stop bowing down to anti-christian demands and fear of offending non-believers.
We should wear that badge with honor and humility. My hat's off to you, Lady Pence...
-
GEORGE SJOSTROM
This school reminds me of a movie I once watch I think it was called the stedford children.
-
Darrell he’bert
This was so interesting to read. I am a Christian, I believe in the Bible and that God created this world, and sent his son as the sacrifice for our sins. Many Christians choose to not use the public schools since they have started teaching a leftist world view. They choose a Christian school to ensure that their families Christian views are reenforced, instead of attacked. I work in a Christian school and volunteer there as well. This school is wonderful. But they hire people who also have the same Christian world view and students. This is America! We are a free country. Where we have not only freedom of speech, but also of religion. There are schools of all religions in America. They are free to exist without persecution and espouse the pillars of their faith. People have a decision to make. If they want to go to a public school they can. If they want to go to a Christian school, they can choose to do so. If they want to go to a Muslim school they can, ... and so on. The folks that have commented on this sound like they wouldn’t like a Christian School. They are free not to choose that direction for their family.
-
Rachel
Seriously people this is actually news.
-
Leslie Gray
Given that the mention of homosexuality in the bible is hotly debated is telling in of itself, I don't think that the topic of homosexuality in scripture is truly understood.
I have a question on the topic. Since modern scientific research is currently finding that sexual orientation is actually a condition of an individuals birth, how can living ones life by being true to oneself really be a sin?
-
Reverend Lord Bradley
Thank you! I tried being "straight". I attempted suicide because I was struggling with being true to myself. My Higher Power stepped in & saved me. I have heard His voice & felt His presence. By being comfortable in my own skin as a gay man, I felt true to myself that I didn't before. I had a fiance, a good Christian girl that taught Sunday School. I tried to overcome & bury my true self deep within which I struggled for a long time with. I thought that I could not be gay in a world as crazy as it was back then, over 30 years ago. I was attempting to end my life as I thought something was wrong with me. During the attempt, a voice from nowhere told me that it was not my time, that I had a purpose in life and what that purpose was. If being gay is such a horrible sin, then why was my attempt to end my life interrupted by a Higher Power, an intervention from beyond?
-
BE
Who is your Higher Power?
-
-
-
Sheryl
Good Morning, for once I am going to speak my Truth. I accept all humans, in every way, because Jesus lived all the children of the world, red & yellow, black & white. THEIR sex life is nobody's business. They are humans who are capable of love. These holier than thou religious people are so fake. Judge not, but they do.
-
Reverend Lord Bradley
Amen!
-
-
Katherine Adams
Intolerance is simply intolerable. The many overtly inhumane and cruel actions that have been enacted are extremely harmful to the core belief that all God's children are loved and appreciated. Our mission and our goal is to unify all our brothers and sisters around the world in mutual love, respect and understanding of people's hearts, minds and lives. We are the representatives of God's love. We must be beacons of light leading our brothers and sisters toward loving non-judgment and acceptance, especially in the current hateful environment. We must be commited to using our position as leaders and promoters of peace, love and tolerance.
-
Lionheart
You are right Katherine. Intolerance shouldn’t be acceptable, even from a god. He was totally inhumane killing all those first born children; drowning men, women, and children; approving the crushing of people’s heads with stones; and approving slavery. If anyone needed unifying with people it was god. He has major anger management issues.
If we are truly representatives of gods love and follow in his way, I guess it’s ok to commit those same atrocities.
As for me, I think I’ll go my own way and just love people and commit no harm. It seems the most sespnsible way to be. If your god needs any advise on morality, next time you speak to him, send him my way. I believe I can teach him a lot.
-
Lionheart
“sespnsible” should of course read “sensible”
-
-
-
Vince
Well obviously this school wants the children to become what they preach when their older ...... against everything and troubled by what the children may or may not be or see ..... just psychological abuse from an elder to a minor if you ask me
Ps maybe they should read the Old Testament before it was dumbed down and politically incorrect
-
flugo
'tee vee': Your last sentence appalls me. The Bible says it's a 'fool that says there is no God;. It huts me to see you so casually, disrespectfully and blatantly refer to the righteous,, loving, almighty God of this universe in such a manner. We will all someday stand in judgement before Him. Jesus is our only path to God's 'befriending' us!
-
Lionheart
If the devil is meant to be everything that is opposite to God, he must hate slavery, murder, child abuse, sexism, and rape. This guy sounds alright!
-
Carl Elfstrom
Go devil go !!!
-
-
-
Gary Hynous
The position of V.P. is typically an "Empty suit" job unless Pres. Trump is assassinated in which case our country, in my opinion, will be is a world of hurt! No politician or politicians wife should take this type of position. LBGT are citizens and, if registered, have the right to vote. Remember the old adage: Religion and politics don't mix? A good rule is to never discuss them with a friend or you can kiss your friendship adieux.
-
Reverend Lord Bradley
Very true! I am gay & I vote. I don't support any business or organization that promotes hate or discrimination. I encourage my friends not to support businesses known to contribute to promoting hate.
If connected to the White House or any government official, no place for any connection with discriminatory practices.
-
-
John Owens
So, what I am hearing is, "If you aren't pro-LGBTQ and all manner of promiscuity, you shouldn't be allowed to be in government or married to anyone in government." Sounds just as bigoted as saying, "If you aren't white, you can't be in government or married to anyone in government."
-
Don
Wow. THAT'S what you are hearing? Go see a doctor! Your reading comprehension is severely impaired.
-
John Owens
Yes, Donny, stuff like this: "“a personal life of moral purity”
Well, that rules out cowardly immoral homophobes…
“the school’s religious beliefs, are under attack”
I’m sorry you feel that shedding the Light of Truth on your bloody immoral cult is an “attack”, but that’s on you. Either change your worldview, or be prepared for a life of disappointment."
VERY bigoted.
-
John Owens
And this: "Mrs. Pence has the RIGHT to wear a white hood if she wants. The issue is that it’s sleazy and immoral, and so is anyone who sides with her ignorant bigotry. All clear now, Phlegmo?"
Also very bigoted, while accusing bigotry.
-
Don
Ah, another "you're intolerant of intolerance!" or "you're bigoted against bigots!" nonsense comment. Aren't you late for your NAMBLA meeting?
-
John Owens
Donny, trying to pretend that your own bigotry is actually tolerance doesn't redeem you. You keep hinting that you struggle with pedophilia. They say there is no cure, but if you have not acted on it, you might still be saved. Oh...That's right... sorry...You don't believe in God...Never mind.
-
-
Don
"You keep hinting that you struggle with pedophilia."
Nice slur. I'm not the one defending the rape and murder of children in the Bible - that would be YOU.
I've heard that serial pedophiles tend to project their vice onto others, never seen it in action before.
-
John Owens
Liar. I never defended the rape of children. Not ever. And you are the one frequently accusing others of pedophilia with no reason whatsoever for bringing it up, therefore YOU are the one projecting.
-
-
-
-
John Owens
Darn, Johnny! By golly, I believe you are correct. I wouldn't have thought of it that way, until I read your quote. Ouch! I'll bet he feels like a jerk for saying all that!
-
Reverend Lord Bradley
That is not what I have read at all. What I have read is that as long as she is married to the VP in the White House, she can have whatever values she desires though not working with or for an institution that promotes discrimination. The US Supreme Court has already ruled that discrimination is illegal against LGBT. When her husband is out of the White House, she can teach art at any school that teaches & promotes hate. However, while her husband is still in office that is not acceptable. If her husband left the White House, than I don't care what she does however as long as he is the VP, it's an issue.
Nobody said anything about promiscuity, except for you. Stick to the facts. Discrimination against sexual orientation is illegal. Anyone receiving government funds from tax payers is subject to upholding the laws and not promoting hate.
-
-
Lynn Gideon
We are a country governed by a constitution. It allows all citizens the rights of free speech, freedom of religion,etc. Our constitution is being attacked daily by people who want to change our society. Where Mrs.Pence has her employment is her choice by her rights granted by our constitution. The people who don't like it, have the right to say they don't, also granted to them by our constitution.
So what's the problem? You can't change the way people are. The only person you can change is YOU! ByitnoJ
-
flugo
Excellent!
-
NotNotOffendedOfTheGospel
Well said...
-
Reverend Lord Bradley
Unfortunately there is this thing that has been around for some very long time called separation of church & state. She's being taken care of by tax payers (STATE) and is, whether she cares to admit it or not, is connected to the White House (STATE). Being "employed" by a private religious school (CHURCH) with discriminatory policies which goes against the US Constitution which has been upheld by the highest court in the land (STATE) there is a problem. If Pence wants to resign & step down as Vice President of the United States (STATE) than she can do whatever her little heart desires. As long as she is married to the VP in the White House, she needs to abide by not being involved with or associating herself with any organization that is discriminatory. When her husband is out of the White House, she can wear a white hood & robe if she wants.
-
Jim
I just commented on an earlier comment of yours Rev Bradley. I await your response to that one but then I saw this one and again ask that you look at a few things. What exactly is your interpretation of separation of church and state because the constitution does not exactly put it that way. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof". Therefore to tell Mrs. Pence that she should not teach at a school that practices the principles of her religion is against the constitution. I look forward to your rebuttal.
-
Darrell he’bert
I was being “taken care of” by the government when I was in the military. Does that mean I have to give up my constitutional rights too?
The problem rev. Is that the real discrimination is happening against Bible believing Christians, not by them. Just read all the comments below this biased article. Basically calling Chistians a host of names. This is the same leftist view that is happening in many of our secondary schools. This is also why Christian, Catholic, and other religious schools are growing in popularity. As much as any liberal group strives to convince people that bad is good and good is bad, it does not make it so. Believe the Bible, Obey, Love, Serve, and surrender to Jesus.
-
-
-
Jim
Reading some of the comments on this site just makes me smile. People who say they support the LGBT community because they have the right to be who they want to be and then turn around and condemn others who feel different and do not support the LGBT community. Pro choice feels that a woman has the right to do what she wants with her body and kill a baby. Yet we have laws that if a person kills a pregnant woman they are charged with a double murder. A woman who decides to carry a child full term can turn around and sue the father for child support but the father has no say so in weather the child is born. For the most part I can say what I want as long as it is politically correct but god forbid I have an opinion outside the PC. People who ware MAGA hats are being harassed on the streets in malls etc because of what they support or believe in. For many a year I have watched our country go down a slippery slid of political correctness. I say this. The second lady has every right to do what she thinks is right. NOT what some people think is right. LGBT folks have every right to do what they want with their lives and should be left alone to do so but should also understand that not everyone feels as they do and they should respect that as well. Its time people stopped the PC BS and started living what they preach.
-
Maiane santo santos
Good comment, and you didnt name call, kudos.
-
Carl Elfstrom
I emphatically agree.
-
cbcuff
I'm with you on the PC overkill also. A school teacher does not have any kind of 'right' to induce young children with their religious / political beliefs. Although the parents of these children likely were aware of the religious agenda supporting school policy, the children are still left vulnerable due to their age. Many American adults cannot navigate through the double speak of organized religions. This article is yet a small reminder of why any /all religious overtones should not be allowed in public schools.
-
-
Loren
I don't see any irony in banning gays from an art class. Whoever heard of a gay artist ?
-
flugo
Who ever heard of an artistic gay?
-
Lionheart
Well, if you are really serious here's a huge list just for starters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gay_artists
-
Carl Elfstrom
Then there was Michelangelo Buonarroti, who mostly filled the Sistine Chapel with pictures of muscular men with tiny penises. They aren't all size queens, you know. Oh my, Mother have mercy !!!
-
-
-
BE
Mrs Pence can teach wherever she wants to. Not everyone is going to agree with others views on morality or politics. Her beliefs are based on Biblical principles and exercising that faith is her right in America.
-
Don
"Her beliefs are based on Biblical principles and exercising that faith is her right in America."
Actually most Biblical principles would land a person in prison, in this country and century.
Unless you're claiming Mrs. Pence takes her disobedient children to the edge of town and stones them to death? Because that would be front page news!
-
flugo
'dung': '. . . most Biblical principles would land a person in prison, . . .' The baseless statement 'most', categorizes over 50% of the Biblical principles. To factually do that, you have to have the total of Biblical principals. What IS the total number of Biblical principles on which you base your evaluation? Show me the evidence, or is this another of your suppositories, whoops, suppositions devoid of accuracy?
-
Don
"What IS the total number of Biblical principles on which you base your evaluation?"
617 - the number of Commandments. I thought you were a Biblical scholar, how did you not know this?
"Show me the evidence"
You first, show evidence Jesus actually existed...or shut up.
-
BE
Actually, 613 is the number of commandments assigned by Jewish tradition in the Mishneh Torah and are based on the Biblical ten commandments. In contrast, a Biblical principle applies to all areas of life and faith for all believers and is more generalized and applicable to more situations.
THANKS
-
Don
Actually, the number 617 was given to test the self-proclaimed "Biblical Scholar". (see above comments)
THANKS
-
John Owens
Glad you asked:
"Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome...." (Tacitus, Roman Historian, 64AD)
"They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food – but food of an ordinary and innocent kind." (Pliny the Elder, 112AD)
"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald ... cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy." (From the Babylonian Talmud sometime between 70AD and 200AD) Athough the Talmudic account differs from the different authors of the gospel accounts, that is to be expected, since they hated Christians. But, "hanged" was also used in scripture to describe the hanging of Jesus on a pole (I do not say crucified, because it was done on a single upright pole and not a cross.)
"The Christians ... worship a man to this day – the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.... [It] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws" (Lucian of Samosata, 2nd century Greek satirist, from Lucian, "The Death of Peregrine")
"both Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise. Second, Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher. Third, both Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats. Fourth, Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified. Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate. And the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover. Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus. Sixth, Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah. And finally, both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!" (Michael Gleghorn is a research associate with Probe Ministries. He earned a B.A. in psychology from Baylor University and a Th.M. in systematic theology from Dallas Theological Seminary. He is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in theology from Dallas Theological Seminary)
-
Don
LOL!!!! He was silly enough to mention Tacitus AND Josephus! BOTH KNOWN FORGERIES!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Poor Johnny, this is almost as bad for him as when he claimed there was evidence for the Ark.
Pathetic, but funny!
So Johnny - any ACTUAL contemporary, verifiable evidence that Jesus existed? Because so far all you've done is parrot Christian apologists whose claims have all been refuted. Is that really all you've got?
-
John Owens
Typical cynic, Donny. You just flippanty and conveniently reject any source with which you do not agree, and then pretend to laugh at others because they don't reject them. I do not accept that Tacitus OR Josephus are forgeries, and I challenge your assertion.
Also, you only rejected two out of the four. So what do you do with the other two, and HOW the HELL can there be CONTEMPORARY records of something from 2k years ago? Unless you believe in time travel, I mean. You reject CONTEMPORARY videos with government officials in them. Are you willing yourself to be ignorant of some things, just because you have been taught that way? So, about Lucian and the Talmud, are they forgeries also.
-
Don
"I do not accept that Tacitus OR Josephus are forgeries, and I challenge your assertion."
Great, I eagerly await the evidence to challenge my assertion.
We can end this "debate" right now...simply provide evidence for the Zombie Army described in Matthew 27:51-53 and I will concede.
Your move.
-
John Owens
You have to quote or cite someone, Donny. Who, besides you, says they are forgeries? If you are the only one who says it, it is automatically refuted.
Also, you conveniently skipped the Talmud and Lucian.
-
-
Don
"Show me the evidence"
This from the genius who believes in talking snakes and donkeys. Again, it's a shame irony isn't painful.
-
flugo
'dung': No balz, I see. YOU made a statement. I asked for evidence. You have failed to provide such.
-
BE
Also please investigate early writers from the time of John and Paul through the second century that gives much background of those times including corroboration of the many early disciples of Jesus Christ and the persecutions of those times with historical viability. Another thing to consider is the writings of Luke who was a physician and investigated and compiled a history of the early to late first century. The books of Luke and Acts are one volume putting forth the events surrounding Jesus Christ and the Christian church compiled by eyewitnesses of the day. The early writers referred to above are Clement, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabus, Papias, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus. If further research is wanted, please refer to Tertullian and Origen, although those writers were more concerned with Theological doctrines.
What specific claims of the apologists have been refuted? Also, when were Josephus and Tacitus declared forgeries?
THANKS BE
-
Don
Evidence for your Zombie Army in Matthew. And I will concede - should be easy since you earlier claimed the Bible as fact. I won't hold my breath.
-
John Owens
He won't answer, BE. Just pretend he knows something, ignore most of what you say, make a snide comment or two, say "sleazy", "vile", or "cowardly", maybe another pedophile insult (he's VERY prone to those {go figure} ) and pretend he won the exchange.
-
Don
"maybe another pedophile insult (he’s VERY prone to those {go figure}"
Only when the other commenter is defending child rape. Like you did earlier. Cute how you pretend that never happened. And by "cute" I mean pathetic.
-
John Owens
Lying again, Donna. I never did defend child rape. Not once. Not ever.
-
-
-
-
ET
I agree.
-
flugo
BE: It's good to hear rational, objective comments!
-
Carl Elfstrom
The jobs I've taken in my life had nothing to do with me believing the same as my employers, and did not reflect my beliefs. I mainly took them to earn a paycheck, so I could support myself. I never cared anything about what my bosses or their clients believed in, and was never required to defend oruphold their beliefs either. A job is just a job. If Mrs. Pence owned that school and was responsible for setting its policies I could see a reason for an uproar. However, she only works at that school, and there's no reason to think that reflects her personal beliefs. I am personally against all forms of prejudism, but I don't think that prejudiced people are bad or corrupt because of it, nor are their businesses anti- American for not doing business with certain kinds of people. If they aren't breaking any laws then they aren't doing anything wrong, even though their policies are against my morals.. Mrs. Pence may or may not be against their principles, too. I'm sure she wasn't told to teach her class to be against gay people. They just aren't accepted in that school, which doesn't have anything to do with her at all. There have been times when our own military wouldn't hire gay people. Does that mean people who aren't prejudiced shouldn't work for them, or be talked bad about, if they do ?
-
-
Lionheart
It seems that one of the problems of today’s schools is they have replaced the logic of teaching children “how” to think, with “what” to think!
-
Carrie
Well said! I worked in education for 30 years..They had just begun teaching them how to think when the disaster called "No Child Left Behind" corrupted the system and started to strangle any idea of enlightenment!
-
-
Miranda Allison Young
Both the First Lady and the Second Lady of America are supposed to be role models for other women everywhere in the US. This is the worst role model activity that I have ever seen. I am 81 and have seen both good Presidents and bad ones, good Vice Presidents and bad ones. I have seen their wives who are both good and bad. Mrs Pence is one of the worst and she just slammed the door in the faces of all LGBTQ people in this country. She is supposed to set good examples for her children. If this is how she behaves, she is doing them a great wrong. This is not what America is supposed to be. It is not a Christian way to be. Jesus would be appalled by this. I hope that she soon sees the error of her ways and quits teaching there. Miranda Allison Young
-
Marilyn E Gibson
You are right on & wise in your words!
-
ET
I’m 81 also. I prefer others to be tolerant of my views, and try to be tolerant of the views of others. Not everyone follows the same belief system or path in life. Mrs. Pence is following her path (not mine). It is her choice, not a reflection on mine.
-
cbcuff
I wonder what the Third Lady believes...should we get her opinion? Full of self-importance, nothing less.
-
Don
Um, the Speaker of the House is Nancy Pelosi...and she doesn't have a wife.
Have you been drinking?
-
cbcuff
Thanks for your comment Don, I've started the day with a good chuckle. If Nancy had a wife I'm certain the Second Lady would have brought this to our attention. Cheers.
-
-
-
Reverend Lord Bradley
Thank you! I wholeheartedly agree with you!
-
-
James Mounts
Why do we continue to allow left-wing radicals to define our morality? Biology defined your sex at birth, and, no matter how cheated you feel you cannot change that. I applaud the second lady for having her own career and for living her religion.
-
Don
Biology. You should take a class or three. This isn't about gender identity, this is about a "school" that teaches nonsense as fact and bans Americans based on their sexual orientation.
Only a spineless coward bigot would think this is a good idea.
-
flugo
You're wrong again. The issue is : does Mrs Pence have the right to teach in this school, or not? Does this school have the right to decide who attends the school? Does the school have the right to make policy about the LGBTQxyz-ers? Is this a free country, or not?
-
Don
Mrs. Pence has the RIGHT to wear a white hood if she wants. The issue is that it's sleazy and immoral, and so is anyone who sides with her ignorant bigotry. All clear now, Phlegmo?
-
Gary Minnis
Everyone has the right to worship and believe as they are led. If that does not fit into your political view that is YOUR problem. All clear now?
-
Don
Really, Gary? EVERYONE has the right to believe as they are led? EVERYONE?? So you'd defend a person who believes that every person named Gary Minnis needs to be lowered into a vat of nitric acid head first?
Or did I just deflate your position?
-
CW
Your calling her a racist over sexuality. Do you not know the difference?
-
Don
Who called her a racist? And it's spelled "you're".
Do you know what an analogy is?
-
brenda
I think everyone that doesn't like what Mrs Pence is doing needs to pack their bags and head out to a country that will let them do as they please..I pay taxes and I don't care where she is working as long as it isn't harmful.....This country was founded on religion and God has been watching over all of us.
-
Don
"This country was founded on religion and God has been watching over all of us."
Hey brenda, you might want to pack YOUR bags, since you don't even know our country's history. This country was NOT founded on any religion or gods, and our Founding Fathers made sure of it.
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." - Treaty of Tripoli, 1796, signed and ratified by EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS.
-
-
Don
Wrong AGAIN, Phlegmo?
You'll need to point out where I was wrong the first time, thanks so much, (and if it's your sleazy defending of child rape in the Bible, don't bother)
-
flugo
Don: Yes, wrong, again!
With your response to James Mounts, you incorrectly phrased your last sentence. It should read 'cowardly', NOT 'coward'.
-
-
Don
You're reduced to correcting typos now? That is absolutely HILARIOUS!
-
flugo
Don: Nope. I'm just successfully responding to your 'wrong again' challenge.
-
-
-
-
Loren
Actually people can and do change their sex.
-
John Owens
No. Not factually. Through mutilation and modification, they can add and subtract to their bodies, but they cannot change their gender. That has been the case so far.
-
-
Reverend Lord Bradley
If she was a middle class housewife and her husband was working in the coal mines of VA, that would not be an issue. However as she is the wife of the Vice President being taken care of by tax payers money, and requiring secret service escorts, she can go worship in any church she wants to though taking a teaching position at a private school that clearly promotes homophobia is against the separation of church & state. Any school that receives government funds cannot promote, teach or further an agenda of discrimination. She is a representative of the White House as second First Lady aka government. As such, if she wants to teach art at any public school, that is fine. The private school unfortunately can have backwards, hateful & discriminatory policies as it desires as long as it does not receive one penny of government funds. Security required for her to be working at such a facility would require tax payer government funds to accommodate her. The private school's policies are out of compliance to receive any benefit from tax payer funds. If she wants to teach art, then teach at a low income school, teach art at a public school where the children would greatly benefit.
Yes, any private school can have any policy it wishes. That is not the issue at hand, though it is morally wrong. To call oneself Christian should be one acting Christ-like. To discriminate against anyone for being different than oneself is not being anything Christ-like. And what really bothers me is how anyone ordained through ULC can be so judgmental & spewing against those that are LGBT. "WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF THE SAME UNIVERSE!" I don't judge someone based on the religion they follow or don't follow. What I do look at is if that religion or doctrine promotes discrimination or hatred towards others, which I have serious issues with. If we all have compassion, understanding & acceptance of others, this world would be a much better place. Again I express that anyone being supported by tax payers funds, especially those in the public eye in the White House should not be promoting, advocating or supporting discrimination or any organization that does.P.S. Before you rant off about my name, I am a true Lord by Scottish Law. I own land in Scotland for conservation.
-
Jim
You post a good argument. That said I would differ with you on a few points. The first or second lady are not paid government employees. The second lady does not live in the white house. Based on what I have read the second lady is a Christian. While I don't know her stance on LGBT community most Christians disagree with the lifestyle of the LGBT community. They are not advocating discrimination or hatred. This is where I think a lot of people misunderstand the reasoning. I have two gay relatives both 1st cousins, one male one female. I do not discriminate against them and personally do not care what they do in there own homes. I get along with them fine and they with me. I do not however agree with there lifestyle but that is not to say that I hate them or anything else. I do not agree with the lifestyle of people who "SWING" or do drugs or anything else but they have a right to do it . The problem here is that if someone disagrees with the lifestyle of the LGBT community they are said to be homophobe or they are discriminating against them or they hate them. I ask you this, who is being discriminated against if she takes this job? What harm is she doing by taking this job? Why should she have to give up what she believes in to satisfy everyone else? Is she not entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness just like anyone in the LGBT community? SO what we have is a double standard. It's ok for some people to have the freedom to do what they want but not for others. As for the taxpayer funds, how many people receive government funds that belong to organizations that discriminate against others. My guess would be in the hundreds of thousands. I personally do not feel that the school is discriminating they are following what they feel is right. Muslim religion has many things that I find to be discriminating against women but many of the Muslim women adhere to it even in this country. It is what they believe. Should we make them conform to a typical American standard? would that not be discrimination? Unfortunately the world is not a perfect place, and in a perfect world everyone would think the same way and everyone would get along. I think folks should take a step back and look at the real world. If we all just show compassion and TOLERANCE for what folks believe and let folks live their life as THEY see fit and stop being so PC or judgmental the world would be a much better place.
-
Norma Battes
Jim February 7, 2019 at 8:24 pm " While I don’t know her stance on LGBT community... "
The school bars anyone, parent or staff that, "are in opposition to, the biblical lifestyle the school teaches." Is she works there, you know her stance. So then..., 1. " Why should she have to give up what she believes in to satisfy everyone else? " She shouldn't. 2. " Is she not entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness just like anyone in the LGBT community? " Yes she is. 3. " SO what we have is a double standard. " Appears so. 4. " It’s ok for some people to have the freedom to do what they want but not for others. " As in Christians practicing their faith, but homosexuals barred from the military or unable to marry?
-
Rev. Brenda
No one has the right to make a decision for anyone else, Mrs. Pence has the right to work anywhere she wants who do you think you are to think you have the right to decide she doesn't answer to anyone. As someone that is a believer in Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior He is the only one I answer to and the Bible is the guide to my life I don't Know but I believe she reads the same scipture I do and know where in Gods word does He say it is ok to lay with the same sex. You have your opinion and that's on you to answer for not me or anyone else, that why we have freedom of choice to decide for our selves God gave us an instruction manual and all He ask is for us to read it believe in Him ask him for forgiveness, confess our sins, and have faith. Repent, Believe, Confess, Receive. As long as you continue to trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. Prov. 3:5 He wil continue to take care of you until His return when We all go to heaven.
-
-
Norma Battes
Jim February 7, 2019 at 8:24 pm " While I don’t know her stance on LGBT community... " The school bars anyone, student or staff that, "are in opposition to, the biblical lifestyle the school teaches”. If she works there, you know her stance. So then...,
- " I ask you this, who is being discriminated against if she takes this job? " Well, let's take a look.
- " What harm is she doing by taking this job? " Seek and ye shall find. (Sorry, sarcasm.)
- " Why should she have to give up what she believes in to satisfy everyone else? " She shouldn't.
- " Is she not entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness just like anyone in the LGBT community? " Yes she is.
- " SO what we have is a double standard. " Ahh, the truth emerges.
- " It’s ok for some people to have the freedom to do what they want but not for others. " As in Christians can practice their faith unabated, yet homosexuals are denied military duty, legal marriage, or even with whom they choose to love.
My, my, a complicated world we live in, yes?
-
-
-
-
Katelynne Victoria Shouse
NopeNopeNope!!!!
-
Don
"a personal life of moral purity"
Well, that rules out cowardly immoral homophobes...
"the school’s religious beliefs, are under attack"
I'm sorry you feel that shedding the Light of Truth on your bloody immoral cult is an "attack", but that's on you. Either change your worldview, or be prepared for a life of disappointment.
Posting messages is getting confusing.