The leak of a draft opinion from the Supreme Court sent shockwaves across the U.S. on Monday, as a majority opinion penned by Justice Samuel Alito indicated the nation’s highest court is poised to overturn Roe v. Wade.
The landmark 1973 ruling concluded that a woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy, eliminating many abortion restrictions in the United States at the time.
While the Supreme Court’s final decision on whether to overturn Roe likely won’t be known until later this summer, the leaked draft seems to indicate that the Court’s made up its mind on overturning Roe, a ruling which Alito’s leaked opinion calls “egregiously weak from the start… with damaging consequences.”
Overturning Roe has long been a goal for pro-life groups – many of them with strong religious convictions opposing abortion. Politicians have frequently invoked their Christian faiths when signing bills challenging or restricting abortion.
But not all faiths feel the same about this controversial subject.
Some Jewish leaders say a reversal of Roe would constitute a blatant violation of their own religious freedom, pointing out that many Jews believe that women are religiously required to obtain an abortion if a pregnancy puts the mother's life at risk.
Does reversing Roe damage freedom of religion?
Abortion: A God-Given Right?
“Every life is a sacred gift from God,” declared Alabama Governor Kay Ivey when she signed into law one of the nation’s most restrictive abortion bans in 2019. “Our creator endowed us with the right to life,” echoed Texas Governor Greg Abbott when he signed a similar bill.
Words like that aren’t uncommon; pro-life advocates frequently invoke their Christian faith and Jesus Christ when pushing for abortion restrictions. Indeed, most pro-life Americans would state plainly that their faith guides their view on abortion, at least in part.
But Judaism interprets the matter quite differently. Jews are the most pro-choice religious group in America, with 80%+ leaning pro-choice.
That may be because Jewish law generally does not believe, as most Christian traditions do, that life begins at conception. In fact, sources in the Talmud indicate that the fetus is “mere water” prior to 40 days of gestation. Only when the baby is born is it considered “nefesh” – Hebrew for “soul”.
The most-cited source of this belief comes from the Torah, Exodus 21:22-23, which tells of a story of two men who injure a pregnant woman, inducing a miscarriage.
The verse states that if the pregnant woman is injured, the penalty must be blood, but if the only harm committed is the miscarriage, then only a fine must be levied. According to the National Council of Jewish Women, “the common rabbinical interpretation of this verse is that the men did not commit murder and that the fetus is not a person.”
Jewish law similarly states that not only is abortion acceptable, it is required in cases where the pregnancy poses a risk to the life or health of the childbearer, and many Jewish scholars also hold that to mean not only physical health, but mental health too.
As it turns out, the overturning of U.S. abortion law in the name of religious belief only serves the dominant faith – Christianity – while potentially posing a direct violation to another: Judaism.
In the context of recent events, this interesting video is worth revisiting:
Should Roe Go?
Nearly half of U.S. states have trigger laws banning abortion in place, which will be activated immediately upon Roe’s reversal.
And it would be hard to misinterpret their reasoning; many of the bill’s authors have outright stated that they are religiously motivated, their belief in the sanctity of unborn life guided by their faith in Jesus Christ.
Any Roe reversal will undoubtedly see challenges in court for decades to come, and it seems pretty likely that one of those challenges will likely be on the grounds of religious freedom.
One argument that might be posed: different faiths have different beliefs on when life begins. Why is one faith’s philosophy taking precedence over another’s?
What do you think? Will the Supreme Court really overturn Roe v. Wade? And if they do, what happens next?
92 comments
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Touchless 100% legal abortions are available in every drugstore in the the United States. Women have found taking an over the counter drugs which should not be taken if women are pregnant results in the women having an abortion.
So while the supreme court has overturned Roe vs. Wade and made abortions illegal (in many states) drug stores continue to sell over the counter drugs which have the side effect of causing an abortion.
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Richard Lee Cornell
Now that she has no rights as a American citizens she might want to take this directly to God by filling its house with the souls of dead Republicans. How many of these Rep0ublicans have one child for every year they have been marry. 5 years five children. 10 years 10 children. It seems that they have the right not to have children. From 6/23/ 2022 seeing how many anti -rights people will be alive by the end of the year. The Republicans better knock up their wives now before some little girl puts a slug between their legs.
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Henry LeRoy Chandler, II
When the NAZI's ended the lives of over 6 million Jews in their death camps it was blessed by the NAZI Government. It was called the final solution and therefore legal. Therefore those who ran and guarded over these camps did nothing wrong in the eyes of the NAZI Government At the end of WWII those who ran & guarded over these camps were put on trial for crimes against humanity, found guilty & executed. Abortion is legal, but that doesn't mean it's not a crime against humanity.
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Jimmy Moon
How about this novel idea. Women should stop being whores for sinful men only wanting to use their bodies for recreation. NO sex before marriage.
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Lionheart
Please get well!
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Donald Michael Woodward
It seems the U.S. has the same problems as any third world country. Our government has divided the country in several ways, black-white, gay-nongay, republican-democrate, and now, pro-life - not pro-life. I always love a good conspiracy but not when the possible end result is going to end in an autocracy or fascism. It is obvious the people have lost their right to representation. Oligarchs have control of our government representatives and will use this power to create a country that will give them complete control of its citizens. There are so many laws being created that will limit voting, force the need to work, and limit freedom of choice. These are not laws any citizen has asked for, but is instead, laws that will put a minority in control of the majority of the country.
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Jack Michael Anderson
There are all kinds of religions. And many of them claim to be Christian. First Christianity is not a religion. It is a faith in the truth of Jesus Christ! If your church or religion goes against the Holy Scriptures, they are not Christian! The scriptures do not change with the times; they do not change because of new mores or changes in culture! The book of Psalms says that God knew us in the womb! What makes you think he'd be ok with us being ripped to pieces and murdered?
The reversal of Roe vs Wade will not end abortion in this country. Darn shame it won't! Educate yourselves and be happy that you'll still be able to kill your baby if you want!
I'll pray for you!
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Donny Ray Miller
I believe that abortion is MURDER
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Lionheart
The God of the Old Testament was ace at killing little children, and pregnant mothers, so he seemed okay with that type of thing.
To be honest, I think that God was a bit weird with his morals, but when people worship you I guess it can go to your head.🤷🏼
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Elga Konietzny
yes,,it is Murder i can vouch for it
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Terry Mosley
God is Pro Choice/ he isnt taking away anyones Choice/ He did say to Choose Life, The GOSPEL is GOOD NEWS/ Jesus Paid for all Sin for all time. Man is trying to re Enstate the Law that Jesus Nailed to the Cross/
The Issue isnt Abortion, It is Human Concisciouness that is SINKING to below ZERO.The GOSPEL is the Antidote to this Issue/ Man Refuses to Preach Gods GOOD NEWS. He wants to beat people over the head and condemn them of their Sin.
JESUS already did away with this Sin/ Everytime you bring it up YOU INSULED the BLOOD OF JESUS/ You state that JESUS didnt FINISH everything.
Man is gropping in the Dark trying to Fix something JESUS PAID FOR WITH HIS BLOOD 2,000 years ago.
So NO AWARNESS NO MIND of CHIRST, JUST CARNALLY MINDED DIM WITS DRAGGING the BLOOD of the Everlasting Covenant down and making it NULL and VOID as If Jesus Shed his Blood for nothing. The Human Race has ZERO Awarness of that VICTORY/ Refuses to PREACH GOOD NEWS and OFFER GRACE.YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR LOVE / DUH Prophetess Ms Terry
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Lionheart
I look forward to any demonstrable evidence you have that Jesus, and any god, is real, or is it just from a "feeling" you have. If so, please be very careful crossing busy roads. It might be best to not go with any feelings you have, but check first to prove it's safe to cross. The same is equally applicable when reading books. Try using logic, and reason, when making decisions about what is truth, and what isn't, otherwise, all you'll be doing is stating what you have read, without any proof it is true.
Spoiler alert: Harry Potter, The Book of Mormon, are not true, and Elves, and fairies, don't exist.
Thank you for your comments.
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Jimmy Moon
You have been shown all the evidence you will ever need. Two places where everyone knows GOD is GOD are Heaven and Hell.
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Lionheart
Actually, not true! There is no demonstrable evidence whatsoever. Did you know there is a Nobel Prize waiting for the first person on earth that can prove any god is real, even yours.
Equally, there is no demonstrable evidence that there is a Heaven, or a Hell. All you are doing is quoting from an old book written by people who never met Jesus, or many of the other characters in that book. There is still no evidence that Abraham, or Moses ever existed.
Perhaps, if you think you have evidence, to prove god is god, you could provide it, or are you just going to quote from stories and tales from a book, which of course isn't evidence.
Better still, try and get your omnipotent god to prove he exists. I'll be around next week if you want to ask him/her. I'll let you know if it shows up. My money is on that it won't, but hey, I'm happy to be proven wrong.
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Jack Michael Anderson
Amen!
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Karla K Thomas
People think that overturning Roe vs Wade means it will will end for all of America, but that isn't true. It's taking the government out of their uterus and giving it back to the state to decide what to do, as it was before in the beginning. Besides, I'm sure many of you are aware that Roe vs Wade was an entire lie, right? It was a left wing smear campaign to gain sympathies for an imagined and well acted lie. On the death bed confession, a few years back - Jane "Roe" came forward and confessed to it all being made up and she was paid a large sum of money for her lie. She was not raped and was not pregnant when she testified in court that she was. Here is a link to her confession that was back in 2020, when she turned to God. ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMdEn1ZWGj8&ab_channel=FXNetworks
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Got it your a Christian Nazi that likes to lie. Remember conservative and evil are hand in glove.
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Donald Michael Woodward
A baby is not a baby until its first breath. A right to bare arms was to protect the freedom of choice. abortions and guns kill people. is it not time to end both?
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Elga Konietzny
that is only YOUR opinion
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Christi Marie Rogers
Everyone is talking about the right of abortion. The Supreme Court is not taking away the right of women to choose. It is simple putting it back into the States hands. Personal, I believe that everyone will come before God with every decision we have made. Every decision is personal and Accountable.
It is so easy for me, who had the right of birth to have a voice. What would those without a voice say…we will never know.
Respectfully-
Ilmenheru Terikson
You are clearly not a secular minister in good standing with the ULC so you have no valids thoughts to write here
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John P Maher
NONE ! AND THE GOVT. SHOULD HAVE NO SAY in THE MATTER EITHER, it IS A WOMANS CHOICE ALONE ! ALL YOU MEN and GODFATHERS, FATHERS and THE LIKKKE TEND to YOUR FLOCKKK WANTED or UNWANTED BUTT JUST SHUT UP !
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Amber Fry
It's very simple. If it is against your religion, don't get one. Religion is a personal choice. The constitution plainly and clearly states that no religion should be discriminated against or favored above any other. That is the meaning between separation of church and state and deciding laws strictly based in religion is against our most important and highest held laws. When it comes to abortion, it needs to be based in science, not religion. It should be based in personal choices based on individual need, not religion.
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Peter Bradshaw
It's very simple. Your religion says you can't do this or that? Fine by me. Your religion says you have to do this or that? Fine by me as long as it doesn't affect anyone but yourself. Your religion says I can't do this or that? Piss off.
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Dean Allen White
This is a political question, and also a moral one. The Supreme court is empowered to rule on only one criterion, "Is this law constitutional?" I see nowhere in the constitution, nor the bill of rights, where anyone has a right to an abortion. Abortion is simply not specifically addressed by the constitution. That being said, there is a political means to add a future "Right" to an abortion to the bill of rights. It can be added as an amendment specifically giving this right to women. Of course, in the present age of political "wokeness", adding an amendment that gives a specific right to a particular group of people (in this case, only to women) might be seen as "Sexist"? Heaven forbid we did something sexist, right? This is a very complicated and controversial issue, and if a true right to an abortion is to be established it needs to be enacted as an amendment to the constitution, or it can simply be struck down by the courts. I have many mixed thoughts and emotions about the concept of aborting a fetus, and I can only say that I'm glad that it's not up to me to find a correct solution to this issue. In the end, my thoughts are that we should allow each individual prospective mother to make her own choice, based upon her own situation. For 49 years now we've fought a political battle over a right granted by the Supreme court of the U.S. in 1973. Granting rights is not the job of the Supreme court, and any politician that knows more than their name and address should also know that for a right overlooked in writing the constitution to be established, the members of the Senate, and the House of Representatives, must pass this amendment by a 2/3 majority vote. Then, two thirds of the state legislatures must also ratify this amendment. Of course, this is inconvenient. It was meant to be. Were it too easy to grant further rights, or to retract them, our constitution and bill of rights would be changed each time a new group of politicians took power. If those in power at present wish to establish a right to an abortion, then they should stand up, get to work, and establish this right in the proper way, not expect a sympathetic Supreme court to do their job for them.
This is just my two cents worth, and you may choose to take it, and value it, as you will.-
Nicky
Thank you for your post I as a woman found it profound in its eloquence I'm sure we're I to post my feelings on this matter it probably wouldn't be received as well.
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Rev. Peter
It is not only Jews who largely oppose abortion. Many faiths are pro-choice. Within the Christian faith, a number of churches are pro-choice or believe that life does not begin at conception. This is also true within the Muslim, Sikh, Unitarian, and Buddhist communities. In addition, despite the views of their leadership, most Catholics want abortion services to be available.
See, for example:
https://religionnews.com/2022/05/06/survey-white-evangelicals-oppose-abortion-other-religious-groups-support-it/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/religious-division-supreme-court-abortion_n_6277e6a2e4b009a811c4ec3f
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/08/1097274169/when-does-life-begin-religions-dont-agree
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Lionheart
Yep, we should be able to do what we want with our own body. I’m for pro-choice, it should be our own individual choice as to whether we vaccinate, or not.
Oh sorry…is this the wrong discussion topic? 🤷🏼
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Rev. Peter
You can't catch a pregnancy from someone else...
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John P Maher
WRONG REV. PETER, THATS EXACTLY HOW ONE CONCIEVES, FROM SOME ONE ELSE, WHERE DO YOU PRACTICE ???
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Nicky
When I read ur comment it made me laugh it's great
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Lionheart
Did you ever study biology at school Peter, or did you skip that class to study how a mythical god can impregnate a virgin.....and get away with it?
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Kathleen Jacobs
As soon as the words 'God' and 'soul' are used in an argument for or against abortion, the discussion immediately comes in the realm of religious freedom.
Just as the adage "your right to make and swing a fist ends where my nose begins".
Everyone has the right to believe what they want. And they have the right to express those beliefs i.e. free speech protections.
Believe as you will but do not attempt to write laws dictating that others must abide by your beliefs. A pregnant woman has the right to choose based on HER beliefs whether or not you agree.
Try passing a law forbidding & and criminalizing vasectomies since sperm are living organisms and necessary to the creation of life. How enthusiastically do you think that will be embraced?
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Lionheart
The god of the Old Testament is definitely not pro life. Between the Flood, Passover, and the Book of Revelation, you’d be hard pressed to prove me otherwise.🤔
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Michelle Lynn Isle
I believe when individuals from all walks of life are free to choose what's best for them and/ or their families *and there is real education and help in place -medically, socially, mentally - we can honestly say we are supporting peace and living in the light, speaking the truth and sharing the burdens of responsibility as a planet.
Cutting off the ability and comfort for people to speak openly and fight for their rights to support their faith, and govern their own bodies and lives, the truth gets skewed, trust is deminished, people start taking risks, making weird decisions based on fear of punishment and shaming.
What I mean to say is, forcing individuals to do anything related to their bodies is therefore, steering their personal lives into a perminant situation with a series of and unwanted outcomes. This will lead to, and even hide away, more problems in our society than it will solve.
Oppression by way of biased interpretation is supposed to be good for us? Who in their right mind thinks banning ANYthing will keep it from happening and make everybody happy? Making abortion illegal just deregulates it. NOW there's a problem.
I can't help but think this reversal of Roe is directly related to the numbers of people lost in War and Covid. Who decides it's time to start cranking out more people, when there are too many living on a planet we are actively destroying?
Allowing abortion to save the mother makes sense because the mother is of more value. How is it an unwanted or morbidly compromised child is more important than anyone, anywhere?
More people in the world doesn't improve a thing except fluxuations in the economy - which is also something people of control want control over.
Since when has forcing people to do anything led to peace and emotional stability? What happened to education and guidance? Faith is guidance, right? The bible isn't a law book and should never be used as a legislative tool.
Now I'm waiting to see the next thing people everywhere will be forced to inject into their bodies, or carry in their bodies with no option, or point to even thinking about what happens next.
When it comes to making personal decisions of this scale, I feel the the rite to life, and the will to abort should rest on the individual. Whether the choices end up constructive or destructive, they are consequences which can be neither forgotten nor undone. Only the two individuals bringing more people into the world can truly know the facts of the matter and make that personal journey. The Church and State should not be in charge of people's bodies, steering lives they have never lived.
Did God put us here to fight and boss each other around, or did God put us here to find peace, forgive and figure things out by listening to our own hearts?
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Nicky
THIS POST IS THE ONLY ONE SAID PERFECTLY THANK YOU SO MUCH (MICHELLE LYNN ISLE) IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE ~ LEGALLY, POLITICAL,MORALY & RELIGIOUSLY AND PLEASE BEFORE YOU POP OFF WITH YOUR IGNORANT COMMENTS PLEASE DON'T BOTHER
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Jason LaBarre
God gave us free will. That means that you can do as God commands, or you can do as you wish.
We will never find the answer to this question, until we truly sit down and listen to what God is saying.A woman has complications with the pregnancy and looses the baby. That is abortion. A woman is attacked while pregnant and looses the baby. That is abortion. A woman gives birth to a baby, and gives it away. That is abortion, by the mother, and adoption by the new family.
While a family is working on having a baby. They find that the child will be born with a birthdefect. What do you do? Society teaches us how to raise a normal child. But when there is doubts about the child being normal. Society has no clue what to do! Trust in God's grace and love. God will give you the answers, when you listen and observe, and not hear and look.
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Lionheart
First, there is still me demonstrable evidence that any god, even the one you believe in, is real.
Second, what you are saying is that if you meditate, and get a nice gut feeling, go with your nice gut feeling, and then say you have took it to the Lord (god) and he gave you an answer, even though there is no real evidence, apart from a nice gut feeling. Is it the same gut feeling that people felt when they converted to be Hindu, Moslem, Baha’i, Krishna, Mormon, Moonie, JW, Jewish, Democrat, Pantheistic, Wiccan, Republican…….?
How would anyone differentiate between different gut feelings? Is the nicer gut feeling the Holy Spirit? Are there different levels of gut feelings for all different faiths? Is there a Gods Grace gut feeling? Could the Gods Grace gut feeling really be the gut feeling one got telling them the Mormon faith is true?
Is gods grace and love the one that god had when he killed those first born little children. Did the moms of those dead little children feel the Gods Grace gut feeling? When god commanded someone to stone a man to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, did the man feel the Gods Grace gut feeling, or was that the Holy Spirit gut feeling? If there’s a difference, how does one know which is which? Is it really the Krishna gut feeling without anyone really knowing.
My comments of course are purely rhetorical, but…..can you see how stupid all this is? Can you see how religiously indoctrinated many have become by following “The Spirit”. Which “spirit” was it? Was it a “spirit”? Was it really just……..a gut feeling?
I have a sneaking feeling that the “spirit” of humor is playing with us 🤭
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Timothy Holland Sr
It should be the right of an individual to do wig their bodies or choose fit. That should be between other and more their God…
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tuppennyblue
I was adopted at birth, in the UK, at a time when abortion was illegal. Had it been legal, I am sure that I would not be here now. I'm sure I don't need to say anything else.
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Rev Nolan
Below is a copy of the letter I have written to the United States Supreme Court regarding abortion. To begin with, as I stated in my letter, I do not believe in abortion except in emergency situations; however, my opinion is not what matters. Law does. I have outlined my thoughts and look forward to hearing your thoughts as well.
Nolan-Amory Kingston
May 3, 2022
Supreme Court of the United States 1 First Street, NE Washington, DC 20543
Phone Number: 202-479-3000
RE: Abortion
To The Honorable Supreme Court Justices of the United States of America:
To begin with, let me introduce the fact that I am opposed to abortion except in dire emergency cases. However, I do not support overturning abortion rights for the following reasons.
- An unborn child in the Constitution of The United States does not indicate – neither sets forth nor implies – that an unborn child has any rights to that provided therein. Therefore, the unborn child is like property to the woman in which that child lives. 1.1. Before determining that it is appropriate to turn over the Roe v. Wade legislation, it is the responsibility of the Supreme Court to determine if the unborn child has any rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness in any form whatsoever. 1.2. Due to the above claim I have made, it is appropriate for the Supreme Court to forensically debate the law first as it is and then whether it applies to today’s circumstances. 1.3. Therefore, I propose a Constitutional Amendment defining when life legally begins in The United States.
- There is a claim that a woman has a right to do with her body as she wishes; however, that is not the case with the unborn child. It is the responsibility of the Supreme Court to determine whether the unborn child is a legal life according to the laws of the land. 2.1. What rights does a legally non-person have in the United States? 2.2. Is the unborn child a legal person apart from its mother? 2.3. Does the mother have rights apart from the unborn child? 2.4. I speculate that the issue is not about abortion at all; rather, the Roe v. Wade issue has everything to do with the legal existence of the unborn child. Under Roe v. Wade, as the Constitution stands today, the child has no right to life whatsoever except under the auspices of the mother’s life choices. Without Roe v. Wade, the mother of the unborn child has rights only as it affects the unborn child and not the mother. 2.5. Legal jurisprudence requires the opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States to determine whether 2.5.1. The unborn child only has rights in determining its legal existence. 2.5.2. The mother has rights determining whether the unborn child can live or not. 2.5.3. The unborn child AND the mother have individual rights or claims over the other. 2.5.4. The unborn child is the property of the mother.
- In most instances, abortion is a women’s issue as regards reproduction until a child is conceived. 3.1. In most instances, male citizens should not be allowed to vote on reproductive rights of women except in instances of conception by the biological father. 3.2. Male citizens should only be allowed to vote on paternity related issues as it pertains to a woman’s limitations on her right to abortion. 3.3. Therefore, I propose that, instead of overturning Roe v. Wade: 3.3.1. An Amendment to Constitution be added determining the extent of a women’s rights to her body when an unborn life exists in her body that was legally conceived between a woman and a man. 3.3.2. In the cases of in vitro insemination, once a child has been conceived, only female citizens should be allowed to vote on what is morally right for them to do.
- The issue of who would be affected has been presented many times in the news. I discount the possibility of this being a racial issue because regardless of race, men and women reproduce the same way.
Without consideration of the above, I do not support a Supreme Court decision one way or another. Once these items have been addressed carefully and with all due diligence, then I support the Supreme Court decision regardless of which direction it goes – meaning whether Roe v. Wade is overturned or retained and whether I agree with the ultimate decision or not.
I hope that my input is worth your consideration and that if I can be of any assistance in this matter in any way that you will not hesitate to contact me either by email at [my email address] or text at 661. [###.####].
Looking forward to hearing back from you all, and I hope you will thoroughly search your consciences in this matter and make your determination accordingly instead of with respect to your political party’s platform.
Sincerely,
Nolan-Amory Kingston
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Rev Frankie PG
If a woman causes the abortion it's freedom, if anyone else causes the abortion it's murder... so the law is written. What about the rights of the father? The mother isn't Mother Mary, so why don't both have to give consent? I'm on both sides of the fence here, pro-life and pro-choice. Pro-life because this is the creation of two consenting parties engaging in sex.
Pro-choice because in the case that the baby is not viable OR the mother's life would be in danger AND the father agrees, THEN the fetus can be aborted. I believe that the ONLY time that tax-payer funds should be used directly or indirectly is when the fetus is created as a victim of a sex crime.-
Laura Gwendolyn Perez
The man doesn't have any rights during pregnancy because his life is not the one at risk. As a mother, who has given birth twice, it's torture. I wanted my children, so it was torture I was willing to risk, but it was still torture. To carry a pregnancy to term, the fetus has to suppress the mother's immune system, or else our bodies will reject them. They leech all nutrients they need from the mother, regardless of whether it will harm the mother or not. I was anemic my second pregnancy, and had breathing issues through both. Other women get HG, which causes them to vomit so much they can't hold even water down. Duchess Katherine is a famous example. Gestational diabetes, which can end up staying after, preeclampsia, hemorrhage, every single pregnancy is potentially fatal. And then, if you get to term, if the baby is any form of breech, you end up with a cesarean. Odds are good with vaginal delivery that you'll tear. And then after delivery there's more risk of hemorrhage. Until the "father" has equal risk as the mother, he doesn't get equal rights. If the mother doesn't want to be pregnant but he wants a baby, he doesn't get to force her to give up her body for 10 months. That's slavery. And a human rights violation.
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Daniel Gray
Nope its not slavery, if you dont want to get pregnant then tell your boyfriend to keep his pants on and you keep your legs closed. Once the deed is done by mutual acceptance then you no longer have the say nor the right to demand anything.
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Rich Calton
Repealing Roe v. Wade ONLY kicks abortion back to the states where the topic belongs, it does NOT ban nor outlaw it. And for those who proclaim her body, her choice.... that only works IF it also applies across the board, like with the masks and covid vax... Do not FORCE your view on to others.
Each has their own CHOICE to make.
YMMV
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Minister Wilson
Nope,
To Mr. Calton, Spindler, and Jester,
I am sorry to break up this little ideological soiree, but it seems this manner of shared ignorance and false comparisons should be addressed....
So, Mr. Carlton, is murder a crime?
Judge Alito is arguing that there is a moral question involved with abortion...
Thus, if the reason for disregarding a long-standing precedent stems from abortion being considered murder then how is it really a serious "moral" concern, if states should be allowed to make that choice?
Murder is define as;
the [unlawful killing] of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice aforethought.
So, if abortion is legal, it cannot be considered murder...legally
The second ignorant comment made;
[And for those who proclaim her body, her choice.... that only works IF it also applies across the board, like with the masks and covid vax..]
This is silly...
Because,
- There arent any public health concerns from getting an abortion
- Viruses spread from person to person, pregnancies are not transmissible
- Private companies can institute rules for protecting their customers and employees from illnesses
- Both state and federal goverments have had vaccination requirements for years that have been proven to be effective against polio, diphtheria, whooping cough, etc. for school, travel, military, etc...
So, what makes the Covid-19 vaccination requirements any different? Flu like symptoms does not make it a flu...
Based on just these factors your argument is silly and ignorant because the truth value changes depending on idealogical biases;
For example, is "my body, my choice" a valid argument for women seeking an abortion? It seems obvious that you believe so...so why are you against it? While at the same time you seem to be against mask and vaccine requirements...based on the same "my body, my choice" rationale...
So, is "my body, my choice" a justifiable rationale or not ?
Can a pregnancy spread to other members of a community without sexual intercourse?
If not...then you cannot, in good faith, apply the same "my body, my choice" standard rationale for communicable diseases, in accordance with public safety concerns...
Moreover, if "murder" is the justification for changing the law which would curtail legal rights for women then "no state" should be allowed to permit "unjustified killings"...so turning abortions rights over to the states is nothing more than political idealogical pandering since murder is supposed to be wrong no matter what "state" you are in...
In other words, a "moral" objection is a religious concern, not a secular justification...
This is like saying, lyching people is constitutional in some states, but not other states....
Pro-life proponents and anti-vaxers are hypocritically ignorant taking away a woman's right to choose, so essentially you all are saying that it is okay to force your "moral" views on other people provided you agree with those "moral" views...
You too, Mr. Spindler and Mr. Jester, why can't businesses spend money on or provide benefits for their employees on what they feel is in the best interest of their own stakeholders?
I thought goverment restrcitions and regulations were a bad thing...
Like you know, baking a cake for gay couples Not selling chicken on Sundays
Again, it is only bad when those actions do not comport with your particular views...
So, if everyone has their own choice to make women should have the right to an abortion, businesses should have a right to protect their operation from communicable diseases, if you dont want an abortion dont get one, if you dont want to wear a mask dont go to that store...right?
I am almost certain you'all will disagree with pretty much everything I have said here, so make your case and show the error in my reasoning...
Because, I am strongly opposed to ignorant ideas and blantant political hypocracy...
Minister Wilson
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Amen - You words are so true. Bossiness as a an employee benefit are not offering paid time off and free travel for women and partners who need to have an abortion in another state.
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Val Jester
ROTM Rich.
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Fernand Luc Bergeron
First, what religion and bible are they talking about ? Anyone calling themselves Father or leader ? Look up Mathiew 23:9-11 and Genesis 2:18 first. Second, Mathew 22:17-21 chuches should pay taxes. Third, please tell me where in the bible do they talk about abortion ? Last but not least, more people equals more pollution, more crime and less good living. God said to be fruitful and become many Genesis 1:28 BEFORE he created Eve and BEFORE they sinned so, let's be intelligent here and use birth-control, and abortion. The first recorded abortion was in 1550 BCE in Egypt. They even passed a law in 1075 BCE. Constantine the great (Roman Emporor) basically pushed christianaty in the roman empire and never once was ever an abortion mentioned. Jesus was on earth and did not talk about it, murder, yes, but to commit murder is to kill a human being. If you have a tumor or a cancer, do you keep it or take it out ? Same thing for an unwanted child, it's not alive because it's not living on it's own, it's just a seed. I've been a religious man since 1975, best advice I can give is to go with your concience, we all have the right to choose our way. We all know the difference between right from wrong and imposing a law, probably unconstitutional, is not Godly. Look at your money, doesn't it say "IN GOD WE TRUST" ? "
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Robert Gagnon
Forcing women to have babies is simply against nature. A hundred years ago non-viable pregnancies were naturally terminated before their birth time. With new medicine, many of these same children are brought into this world. This would be great if not for the many miladies, deformities, lack of mental ability, and sometimes screaming monsters that suffer for years before their condition can no longer be conquered by modern medicine. I spent over nine years in prison. I have seen the offspring of rape and how they punish themselves for their origins. If the mother meant well, these children of rape find out and deeply know they come from an evil act. How many knowing looks from informed relatives form in a young subconscious mind. Palin admitted thinking about aborting the mongoloid fetus she was carrying. She chose not to, but she had a choice. Choice means freedom. And lack of choices means no freedom. Pretty simple.
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Daniel Gray
And where is your proof of this? Oh wait you dont have any
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Rev Wayne Steven
Like everything in creation is not abortion god-given did he not give it to you to his creation I think that's something to think about my own opinion is that a human being is not a human being or sanctioned until he breathes his first breath that's the first breath is what gives you your soul or spirit I know for some that might be fighting words but everybody has their opinion this is my god-given opinion may God bless us all
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Lionheart
So many unsupported claims here that forms your opinion. No evidence for any god. If there was a god there’s no evidence whether it’s a he or she, or whatever. No evidence for a creation. No supporting evidence as to what a soul is. No supporting evidence that the first breath is what gives you your soul, or spirit, but I guess we do at least have your opinion based on………your opinion? Could your unsupported claims solely rely on a book, like claims based on books of other religions? Book of Mormon? Quran? Bhagavad Gita? Bible? Harry Potter? Some other book of peoples unsupported ideas?
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Stacey Owens
Lionheart,
God is not a witness to this countries madness. God has not cosigned to what's taking place in this world.
Stop saying what you don't believe. Christians are not gods, there just christians.
Though the scripture says "ye are gods", Jesus was referring to gods according to, as god's, knowing good and evil
People trying to imitate God, but doing a bad job of it. They will be exposed. These Christians Nationalist are not born again, if they were, you would see God's actual reflection in them; it would be transparent. God's reflection would be truth, for the care of mankind.
This decision is weak, and will backfire on the country. Because it will virtually cause the constitution to become of non effect after they finish with it. They are deceiving the masses by showing they are the chosen ones.
The courts acted just like Pilate, the Roman governor, he washed his hands of it. When those judges made their draft of the decision, it would be passed over to the states. It's like washing their hands of what the constitution is all about.
It's all an abomination, religion will be the cause of this country down fall.
BTG (MAGA)
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Lionheart
Thank you Stacey, I know christians are not gods..... well I hope not, or they will be stoning us all to death and buying slaves like the god they believe in. 😱
Fortunately, many are seeing what religion truly has become and religion of all types are on the decline.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Rev Wayne Steven God aborts far more fetuses every year then women do.
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Robert Gagnon
Forcing women to have babies is simply against nature. A hundred years ago non-viable pregnancies were naturally terminated before their birth time. With new medicine, many of these same children are brought into this world. This would be great if not for the many miladies, deformities, lack of mental ability, and sometimes screaming monsters that suffer for years before their condition can no longer be conquered by modern medicine. I spent over nine years in prison. I have seen the offspring of rape and how they punish themselves for their origins. If the mother meant well, these children of rape find out and deeply know they come from an evil act. How many knowing looks from informed relatives form in a young subconscious mind. Palin admitted thinking about aborting the mongoloid fetus she was carrying. She chose not to, but she had a choice. Choice means freedom. And lack of choices means no freedom. Pretty simple.
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shane hawkins
Abortion is a god-given right abortion is a god-given right if a woman has a right to say and she has sex with that she has a right to say if she wants an abortion or not men should just stay out of women's business this doesn't make any sense why is it a considered to be a god-given right why isn't it federally protected this is totally wrong
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shane hawkins
Abortion is a god-given right abortion is a god-given right if a woman has a right to say and she has sex with that she has a right to say if she wants an abortion or not men should just stay out of women's business this doesn't make any sense why is it a considered to be a god-given right why isn't it federally protected this is totally wrong
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Eric James Hudnall
Grammar much?
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
People without a uterus, don't have the right to make a decision over those who do.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
How true.
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Rev, Rene L.
Once upon a time, in a dark dark age, women who chose or needed to, for whatever reason, to abort a pregnancy induced this by horrible means and died mostly!!! Coat hangers were certainly not the only way, poisons were also used and the local abortionists in many cases were likely making a good living as women died or were forever childless thereafter. My opinion, for as much as it counts, is that only women OF CHILDBEARING AGE should have the right to decide this question!!! As it stands, if you have the money to go elsewhere to see a medical professional (state or country) you likely will. The working poor are once more just serfs at the mercy of petty little men and women! No law is a good law if it cannot be applied universally!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Well stated. Not sure why God did this to women, but child birth was and still is in some parts of the world the leading cause of death for women. God is sure playing a mean trick on women.
If you know your Disney movies and fairy tales you might notice the children have an evil stepmother.... Ever wonder what happened to their biological mother? Obviously she died. Just over 150 years ago the average life span of a women was 35 years.
Yes women should not be told what they have to do with their bodies. Women just as men and non-binary people should all be allowed to make their own decisions.
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Elga Konietzny
God has NOTHING to do with this,, he gave us free will it is all our own making,, WE need to take responsibility for our actions we came to earth to learn HAVE WE ALL FORGOTTEN ???????? WE ARE SPIRIT HAVING A HUMAN EXPERIENCE !!!! what are we doing? we separate us from GOD,,, every religion is separating mankind,,, why is that??? because the bible has been re written many time to suit the church at any given time,,, we do not need the bible ,, we need to go back to the heart ,, inside of us is the bible GOD wrote,, that is the bible to follow we point fingers to others but look at your hand one is pointing forward and THREE pointing at us think about this,,, no man can decide who lives and who dies,,, thou shalt not kill,,, and then there are exeptions,,,,, how do we create a new life???,,, where is the divine Love,, the Sacretness??,,, we are all angelic humans WAKE UP,, we need to take our noses out of all the books and go within,,, only THERE we find God this is what Jesus taught to his people,,, this is our mission nothing else it is a great difficult job to remove all the programming engrained in us for 1000th and 1000th of years we have no time for all this BS,,, we are GOD'S feet on the ground and learn to be humble,,,, as long we judge anything we are not walking God's road,,, my commitment is God speaking through me,, whitout God i am nothing ,, with God I AM everything as THEN I AM a true reflection of God,,, and so it is,,
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Robert Wilson
Rev robert wilson
Women have rights I too believe. Let women have rights.
God bless them don’t judge them
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David Benrexi
So you for that reason would disregard the Roe v Wade decision crafted by seven men, right? The idea that a uterus grants you special powers over men seems to be a very "sexist" worldview. It seems to me that women have a uterus not for their own power needs, but to provide a safe place for life to grow. In other words God didn't give them a uterus to assert their primacy, but rather to assist a helpless person in the beginning of life. That uterus was created for them, not you.
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Amber Fry
That isn't the idea at all. The idea is that it shouldn't have been up to men to decide for women in the first place. Men happened to be in the position to make that law because, at the time, there were very few women in any position to govern such things. Thank goodness they had the presence of mind at that time to agree women should have rights over their own bodies and what happens to them. And yes, they are in possession of a womb exactly for that very reason or By your own logic, God wouldn't have also put plants on the earth that can cause an abortion. It isn't Primacy they are asserting but the right to their own body, their own lives and their own choices. Your whole spew is the assumption of toxic male superiority complex that is a much bigger issue in this world.
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Lady Celynia
Actually, as a woman, I’ve given birth, had my cancerous uterus removed. Do I no longer have a say in womens right?
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Claire Jennette Locke
That is deliberately twisting the point and you know it.
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Lionheart
We still don't know if any of the worlds gods exist, and so until one actually shows up we have no idea what its morals are for humanity. If it's the Christian god, he/she/it has no morals whatsoever for human life, judging by how many it killed during the flood, and that would have included pregnant women. Fortunately, that story seems to be hogwash anyway. If you want to believe the Bible, that god killed little children because of its anger management issue with Pharoah, so I say it has no say in any argument for abortion from that one episode alone. 🤷🏼
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Tom
It's so sad to see women having their bodily autonomy and ability to make private medical decisions taken from them because of one religion's beliefs.
Anyone out there who is anti-abortion (because you're not really pro-life), answer this question: At what point does the fetus's right to be born override the woman's right to seek medical care?
Repealing Roe v. Wade is not going to prevent abortions from happening, it's going to make them more dangerous and lead to women dying because they can't get the medical care they need.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Only poor women. Wealthy woman will still get them, just fine.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Great news..... Business which have workers in states where abortions might become illegal are not providing employees with paid time off and paid travel for women to have abortions as a employee perk. This is being well received by employees and other businesses are joining in.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You're so full of it.
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Lady Celynia
This is really THE question. I don’t believe abortion should be used as birth control. We have very good, inexpensive, effective forms of ABC. If one really doesn’t want to be pregnant and have a child, one should consider multiple forms of ABC as this pretty much ensures pregnancy won’t occur. Does this take the romance out of things? Maybe, but does one want to lose a bit of romance or have a permanent reminder of a temporary feeling?
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Chris
Abortion may not be a "God-Given" right, but a woman's bodily autonomy is. I don't agree with abortion, but I do believe in a woman's right to choose for herself. As for all these Pro-Birthers who claim to value human life, why don't they streamline adoption, improve the foster system, and provide social services to help people? Seems to me they just want more babies born, but don't care about them once that happens. They're hypocrites.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
And you're the murderer.
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John Albert Daniel
Adults should be able to do what they want with their body
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Elga Konietzny
from my own experience i say thou shalt not kill there may be rare exceptions but over all thou shalt not kill
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Chris
Keith and Elga,
I did say I don't agree with abortion. But bodily autonomy for all is part of my religious beliefs. I have freedom of religion to let anyone do with their bodies what they will.
Likewise, not everyone follows the OT. Not to mention, killing is a big part of what the US is all about. Killing indigenous people, killing people we don't like, killing people who disagree with us.... There's even a lot of people opposed to abortion who are supporting the killing of Ukranians. Now personally, I've never killed anyone. Nor have my guns, not to my knowledge. What they do when I'm not home I can't confirm.
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JaZe
Well, what did you have for dinner? BBQ? Roast? Stew? Have you even considered that which so much pleased your palate was part of a heart beating creature a few hours ago?
Please don't quote that God gave man dominion over the earth and its creatures. Did he/she/it add that it is ok to kill and bbq/roast/stew them? Or did he/she/it mean for man to tend and look after this planet with love and care instead of plundering it out of insane greed and ignorance? And aren't those beings you kill and eat not also created and ensouled by God? They have souls and beating hearts too so you are murderers and hypocrites.-
Sherrell K Zitting
God KILLED the quail for the Children of Israel.
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
It's a man given right,now they want to take it away.Why keep causing all this chaos in the world?
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Elga Konietzny
not a Man's but a WOMAN's right we are mocking God in many ways,, we have no right to kill,,, we are all brain washed
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Daniel Gray
Um sorry but no. There is no such right as the right to privacy nor abortion listed anywhere in the US Constitution nor the Bill of rights And under Article 3, the Constitution does NOT give the right to the Supreme Court to just "interpret" the Constitution any way they feel. Want proof? just look at the draft and there is your proof. As if one makeup of the court can interpret it one way, then whats stopping a different make up of the court from interpreting it in another way? So what do you have? CHAOS! And lets not forget that the 10th Amendment clearly states that unless the Constitution SPECIFICALLY grants a government branch a specific authority or power, then they dont have it and never have had it. And last but not least, if you can have restrictions placed on rights that are actually IN the constitution (for example you have the right to yell fire, just not in a crowed theater, you have the right to swing your fist, but not when it connects to another person. You have the right to drive your car, just not when in doing so would endanger another person) So why cant they put restrictions on a mythical right that has never been in the Constitution to start with? And no IF the draft is correct and the court rules this way, Abortion isnt and wont be overturned, it will just have restrictions placed on it like every other "right" does. Simple way to stop abortion or the need for same? Both the male and female need to keep their drawers on and their legs closed. If you cant feed them or take care of them, then dont breed them. full stop.
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Laura Gwendolyn Perez
Except the 9th amendment, troll. The rights enumerated specifically in the constitution do not limit our rights, or ignore rights not specifically stated. And expected married people who don't want kids to not sleep together is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You want fewer abortions, how about we manage that all men get vasectomies? All pregnancies are the fault of men. Without a male orgasm, there is no pregnancy. Women can sleep with other women and never get anyone pregnant. No uterus, no opinion.
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Daniel Gray
he 9th amendment does not apply here troll. Even the Justices who illegally ruled for Roe clearly stated that in the decision that you clearly have not read. So if anyone should be upset at your level of ignorance, just look in the mirror
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Val Jester
Right on the money Daniel.
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Robert Edward Szekely
There are unenumerated rights, because the founders knew they couldn't imagine everything that might occur in the future.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but no they didnt. The Founding fathers were not psychic and nor did they word it in the way you think they did so you can twist it to your own ends.
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Touchless 100% legal abortions are available in every drugstore in the the United States. Women have found taking an over the counter drugs which should not be taken if women are pregnant results in the women having an abortion.
So while the supreme court has overturned Roe vs. Wade and made abortions illegal (in many states) drug stores continue to sell over the counter drugs which have the side effect of causing an abortion.