"Christians, Jews and Muslims are all in shock. She was someone who loved life. She had a good character and a lot of friends. She wanted to do a lot of things. She had a graduation party and was murdered the next day," explained a friend of the deceased.
An Israeli Christian man has been taken into custody after allegedly murdering his own daughter in a fit of rage. Henriette Kara, just 17 years old, was stabbed multiple times in the neck and bled to death on the floor of her family's home.
What could possibly motivate a father to do something so horrible? Well, apparently the catalyst was a non-Christian love interest.
According to reports, Henriette's father objected to her dating a Muslim boy. When she refused to break up with him, family relations quickly turned sour. The final straw, relatives later explained, was when Henriette announced she would be converting to Islam to join her boyfriend in the Muslim faith.
Honor Killing or Isolated Incident?
Most news outlets have framed this story as a horrible incident of domestic violence a disturbing incident, to be sure, but an isolated one. However, others see it as part of a darker trend. In the eyes of some members of the community, this crime screams out "honor killing".
What is an "honor killing," exactly? The term refers to the murder of a family member often female by a male relative as retribution for bringing dishonor to the family. Common examples of "bringing dishonor" include refusing to enter an arranged marriage, having sex outside marriage, or even get this being raped.
In order restore honor to the family name, the "guilty" party is put to death for their offense. While most common in places such as India and Pakistan, honor killings have been recorded in many Western countries, too.
In the case of Henriette's death, reports are conflicted. Authorities note that the father had a history of domestic violence and was not particularly fond of the boyfriend. He could have simply been motivated by blind anger, they say.
But prosecutors did not hesitate to frame the crime as an honor killing. Their formal statement claims that the father was distraught over Henriette's actions, which "damaged the honor of the family and made him feel ashamed."
Honor Killing Around the World
No matter their transgressions, murdering one's own kin is an unthinkable act in most countries. In some cultures, though, it is understood as an extreme measure that nonetheless must sometimes be taken. The statistics behind this horrible practice are both gruesome and shocking.
The United Nations estimates that there are over 5,000 honor killings around the world each year. However, because these crimes are vastly underreported, the number may actually be much higher. Independent women's advocacy groups put the number closer to 20,000 killings per year. Nearly all are religiously-motivated, and involve fundamentalist sects of Islam and Hinduism.
Do Extremists Exist Everywhere?
In that sense, Henriette's killing bucks the trend; the crime was committed by a Christian a religious group not known for honor killings. Could that be why authorities have been hesitant to classify it as such? Could their own preconceptions about honor killings be clouding their judgment?
Although Muslims and Hindus are the most frequent perpetrators of honor killings, perhaps the murder of Henriette Kara is proof that the capacity for callous violence is not limited to any one religion or culture.
Your thoughts?
201 comments
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Johnny Doeseph
He should be killed. What he did takes, not adds, to his family's. A terrible man that frankly, deserves a fate worse than death.
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Yvette Moore
What a sad and terrible story :( I don't claim to know the Torah, the Bible or the Koran in detail but I doubt there's anything that allows 'honour killing'. What a ridiculous use of the word 'honour'. The monotheist religions usually encourage modesty and humility, not pride, which is implicit in the whole 'shame' idea. I believe the man was violent and abusive. I think the child was rebelling, taking up with a Muslim boy and seeing how annoyed her father was, decided to rub salt in the wound by threatening to convert to Islam. It's entirely possible that if the father had seen her actions for what they almost certainly were, she would either have broken up with him in time, or made a family. Either scenario would not have brought 'shame'. If he did feel shame, he wasn't a real Christian. Whether or not her soul would have been damned to hell would be Gd's decision and His alone. I don't believe in the death penalty, because as someone earlier said, how can we say that killing is wrong, when we kill the killers? I'm sure he will eventually see the stupidity and tragedy of his actions and with any luck he'll repent. Or I'm just an optimist. That's possible.
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freespeech51
GOD says to LOVE everyone including your enemy, apparently this man has no Love in his heart. Religion has specific rules/laws, unfortunately we as human beings interpret these to serve our own means. Strip away all the meaningless babble and you have a basic understanding of the law GOD has given us " Thou Shalt Not kill" Deep down inside we all know that what he did was wrong. PERIOD
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James
It is completely healthy in every way to disagree, and argue. It is natural to not get along with others. Critical thinking is key. But physically acting on a simple conversation or demanding history to be rewritten because it is nasty and ugly. Now that's not intelligent. So I half agree.
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Tom B
I agree it is not spiritually helpful to be nasty, negative and aggressive...we are all people...Tom
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Plarp
We all got ordained online by an organization with no formal requirements and then get high and mighty in the comments. Love it.
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Plarp
Big surprise. The man's religion is based upon a father killing his own son. The willingness to kill one's own child is praised from the days of Abraham all the way to the end of the New Testament. And now Christians have the audacity to be shocked by this. It never crossed anybody's mind while drinking blood and eating flesh and Performing rituals on genitals.
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John Owens
it was not the fact that he was willing-- it was the reason WHY he was willing. Yahweh had already promised him that Isaac would be father of many nations and that in Isaac's seed all the nations of the world would be blessed. God read Abraham's thoughts leading up to the NEAR-SACRIFICE, and saw that Abraham's reasoning was that God would resurrect Isaac, having already promised so much regarding him. THAT was what made his willingness praiseworthy in God's eyes.
When the Israelites entered Canaan, and began adopting the ways of the heathen, up to sacrificing their sons and daughters to Moloch (or Molech), God was angry with them for doing it, and said He had not commanded that nor had it EVER ENTERED HIS MIND.
Furthermore, God forbids the actual drinking of blood. Even in the days of animal sacrifice, the blood was to be poured onto the ground, the meat butchered, and the fat burned. Hides were processed. The only genital ritual was male circumcision which is of a definite health benefit for the man and for his WIFE.
I'm just submitting this to you for your edification. Your opinion of Christianity (and probably Judaism) may stem from having biased or incomplete, mal-interpreted information.
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James
Enter the hypocrite, one that does not believe is pointing out the issue with the doctrine of the believer. Hhhmmm, makes one wander about the ability of the pointer.....
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John Owens
I think it is obviously the HYPOCRITE who talks with disdain concerning things about which he (she, or it) is woefully uninformed.
There is nothing in my statements above which would or could qualify ME as a hypocrite. Of course, you may not understand the lexical definition or the everyday meaning of the word.
But keep yacking. It makes you look reeeeeaaaaally intelligent.
BTW, you meant "wonder" not "wander". Wander is travelling with no specific destination or not knowing where you are. WOW! I just realized, "wander" was a Freudian slip, because you WERE WANDERING. WOW.
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John Owens
Oops. Sorry. Confused James for Jim. Didn't mean throw cold water on that. I thought Jim was saying I was the hypocrite. I was pointing it back at him.
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James
The language was intentional. Every other person in this thread seems to claim intelligence over a lesser. When it fact we only know one thing about each other. We are a group of individuals that were ordained by this organization. There is an idea that has slipped the view of many. The so called monster may have only did what he had been taught. We are the ones labeling him. It's honestly none of our business.
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John Owens
Yes, James. Some of us really love to wail our (self) righteous indignation to the world, as we sit in our nests or caves pecking away on our computers. On the face of it, I think the guy was a nut, but then again, I'd rather be dead than be a servant to a Moslem, and I certainly wouldn't want any of my children to be their servants or sex slaves. To kill your own, though, that's a really harsh thing to decide. Not many Westerners are that hard, and those who are, we consider extremists. It's a Montague and Capulet kind of thing. Lots of bad blood there. People who have not lived in a harsh environment cannot comprehend it. That is exactly why I do not think we should import hundreds of thousands of people from those environments in human waves. First, they have little or no desire to assimilate, and second, Westerners are too sissy-soft to deal with them effectively, so they allow themselves to be bullied by the refugees.
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James
I partially agree John. Some of us westerners are entitled push overs. However, the few that social media had from are the real America. The country folk that are most likely never met by the refuge. Such as the area in from. I'd say, 75% don't care and wouldn't even listen to a foreign people. Do something un-American by definition, well that means you don't really want to be an American. Maybe that person just wants the benefit of being here. So maybe they should be returned to their land of milk, honey And pork. Ha. The heat of America is still strong. It's just the city that has rotted and spoiled.
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John Owens
I concur. I'm country, by choice. I've lived overseas, traveled some, worked all over, learned some language skills, married a Chinese woman after my first wife died, then divorced her when she ran off to live in China-town somewhere. If she didn't want to live like an American, she shouldn't have come to America. That's not bigotry or ignorance on my part. That's just plain obvious. Later I was dating a woman from Venezuela who didn't speak English. We were talking about something and when I speak Spanish I speak very directly. She told me I should be more subtle like a Latin guy. In Spanish I said, "Look around you. Where do you think you are now? If you want a Latin guy, why didn't you stay in Venezuela? Nothing but Latin guys there." She told me I was right of course, and apologized, but she was jut here because the Democrats were telling the illegals that Obama would get them all legalized and put them on EBT and government housing, so it goes without saying that we parted ways soon. I can't stand a freeloader.
I was born on a military base in what is now Atlanta, and it is a short enough drive from where I am, but I hate going there. I mostly despise big cities, and I cannot stand to drive through a town that takes over 15 minutes to pass through. What passes for culture in most cities is just pretentious posturing, so that is unattractive to me. Higher cost of living, higher crime, higher divorce. More disease, more accidents, more regulations, just not conducive to clean living or a sound mind.
I want to live where my neighbors keep an eye on my property, and I on theirs. An area where people don't try to commit bank robberies or muggings because they'll catch a 9mm Parabellum in the brain. I can catch rain-water off my house and used it for whatever I like. I can barbecue and my dogs can bark and if a mosquito bites me I won't get sick, because there are no junkies or prostitutes or refugees with exotic diseases around. I don't have to lock my Electraglide or my garage. I can leave my power tools on the porch and no one will steal them. If we want to shoot skeet or target practice with rifles, we just do it. Sometimes a cow wakes you up scratching her head on the corner of your cabin, but the crickets sure do sound wonderful at night.
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Malik Abdullah
He should not be allowed to cover up. Covering up shows that he, 1. knew it was wrong, 2. don't want anyone to see his face, for fear of embarrassment, and 3. knows that there's more to it, than what he's saying. Also, I get tired of all of these fundamentalist heretics going around, saying that God is almighty, God doesn't make mistakes, God is all knowing, and all powerful, and then try to say that God outsourced His punishment to certain people, and used them to kill His creations, when only a mere thought from Him, could end it all. This is not God's doing, this is not God's law, this is man's attempt to control everything and using God as an excuse. Using God as an excuse for your prejudice, your racism, your hate. If God made everyone, then He had a reason, and it was not for you to have target practice, or to control that person, because, if God made us in His image, I don't think he would want you to kill, rape, enslave or shame Him.
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Rev. Joe
Kill the SOB, send him back to the God he loves so much, I'm sure they will be very happy together.
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John Owens
Well, give him a fair trial first, then kill him. Yep.
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Rev Ned
As for me, I follow God on FB. He says He wants His followers to stop killing people, and then claiming He told them to do it. He also says that He loves atheists because they don't kill people in His name.
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James
I guess that is the big red bird God! God loves everyone so much he gave us free will. And a tongue to speak. That doesn't mean every action is ordained nor every word holy. Animals are evil. Animals have no soul. Hence, one your soul is denied, God is denied, you might as well be an animals. Because most people act that way when they don't believe in deity.
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hsw
Amen. I also follow God on FB, as well as the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May his noodlly goodness bless you.
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Fr. Omnius et Nihilius
It is not the child's fault for not being raised properly and know that converting to another faith is spitting in the eye of "God". Her parents should have made sure to tell her of the consequences of race and religion mixing, which can only bring abomination upon the world. My sympathies to the parents who lost their daughter the moment she started dating someone outside the faith.
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hsw
Bringing your bigotry into a community of the spiritual is an abomination.
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John Smithkey lll
This is indeed one of the most heartbreaking story I've read in a long time! As the shock of this story settles, all of us will discover that this is a terrible case of domestic violence! We can read about past violence in this family's history! We can all do something to stop domestic violence,-PRAY
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hsw
My abuser, and many I've known, claimed religion as the reason for their behavior. Praying is the last place I'd turn.
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Mike Burton
Karl Marx said that religion is the opium of the people. What he meant was that religion gives heart to the heartless and soul to the soulless. In my mind those who insist on giving god a name and an organization lack heart and soul of their own and must seek opioids such as religion which keeps them in a perpetual state of mindlessness and mindless people are often pushed to extremes and I fear that there might not be a way to fill their voids in a positive way
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James
Karl Marx was crazy as a shithoused rat. Yet I understand your opinion and psychological evaluation. Have you any training in the matter or do you honestly follow individuals with the strange opinion of a communist with socialist grubbiness? Question time is over. So my opinion is that using another's opinion to support your own is a common practice. Most of the time a person would choose a worth while idealogies to support their claims. I believe we are products of our environment, raising, psychological makeup, and desires. If one is to state religion (vast as that word is) is an opioid for soulless people, then it would make sense to share that education is an opioid for the stupid people of society! Opinions aren't facts but can be pretty close and still be wrong.
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Rupert Morrell
To me killing him would only serve to make him a martyr to the cause that he believes in the best thing that I believe the could do is lock him up for life in th Muslim section of the correctional facility. Hopefully that will teach him to be a bit more tolerant towards his fellow man. Plus I have heard that the Islamic prisoners have their own way of dealing with situations. I
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Deidre
I don't support the death penalty, but he should never walk free again. He betrayed his duty as a father, and has flown in the face of God's love for all his children.
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Penny
A punishment far worse awaits him, then what we (humans) could do to his earthly flesh. Pray that Hod forgives him, and allows him to see the error of his ways. In my opinion he has proven he isn't mentally stable, or fit to be in society. With that being said, I feel like he should serve the remainder of his life behind bars. Who I really feel bad for is the boyfriend. Knowing his girlfriend died because of his faith must be horrible on him and his loved ones. We all need to say a small prayer for that young man as well. This is just a tragic!
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hsw
Not sure about "Hod," but she didn't die because of her boyfriend's faith. She died because her father murdered her. The blame is on no one but her father.
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Sandy
There are 10 Commandments-- One says honor thy father and mother--but yet another says that shall not kill-- of course in this incident, both Commandments were violated-- it's too bad the daughter didn't honor her father's wishes-- and now he can't raise his daughter from the dead-- and the father is no better than a Muslim-- it's a vicious cycle, and of course the devil has his hands completely in it--
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hsw
As with many biblical tenets, this is an antiquated notion. Some parents are abusive or so controlling as to border on abuse.
Women are allowed to control their own lives.
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CW
Christian Don't have Honor Killing. The Ten commandment do not allow for murder. Sounds like the report got the religions mix up in the original article. he Israeli population as of 2011 was 75.4% Jewish, 16.9% Muslim, 2.1% Christian, and 1.7% Druze, with the remaining 4.0% belonging to minor faiths such as Samaritanism, Baha'iism or no religion. SO WHAT CHANCE IS THIS VICTIM AND PERPETRATOR CHRISTIAN? 2.1% and om;u religion with Honor Killings and has enough to have an idiots do this Muslim. So how likely is it a reporter got the facts wrong in Israeli since they don'y even have to be close to correct in the USA? 100% Or this could be fake news.
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Daniel Swan
I have mentioned to a select few people who who are of minds to listen about such behaviors and/oracts of violence and cruelty. Jesus taught not to judge. Jesus taught to love our neighbors, Jesus taught ".....ye without sin cast the first stone." We have politicians who exploit the word of God for their own means, along with Religous leaders, and mainly Puritans. You see.... in America this is not a Christian country, it's a Puritan country. As Jesus has taught us to repell such actions, including the use of force and violence as he did with Peter when he was to be arrsted by the Romans, I find the ENTIRE history of man and my country (America) when it comes to Christ as a complete hypocritical and exploitive mockery of Christ himself. For those of you still embracing the Puritan lifestyle, I'd like to point out when using God's word as your tool for justification of terrible acts, be reminded of Christs teachings. For those of you who love quoting Old Testement passages (almost always out of context) claiming to be Christians, think again. The Old Testement is the 'Old Law' handed down by God himself, or more appropriately the old covenent God made with man. Very clearly in the New Testement Christ (God in the Flesh) mae a new covenent with man through his own sacrafice on the cross. America, and most countries around he world can not claim the right to imperialism and be a Christian country. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO MURDER ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. It's interesting how Puritans still exploit the Bible for their own means and gains. This was never Gods country. The roots of this country are engraved in blood through murder, rape, and theft since the first Puritans invaded this land supposedly looking to worship in their own way. Puritans are the Devils hands, and we are plagued with this historically, and today. This man is not a Christian, end of story. I do hope even after this terrible act he commited that he does find his way to God, but in my own heart I severly doubt it. This is so terrible........
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William C Millhouse
Lethal Injection
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Rev. Wilmer Stanley
I have a feeling this is not so much an honor killing as it is a case of a very misguided father doing what he thought was the right thing. I think he might have believed that by killing his daughter, he was saving her soul from damnation, sacrificing himself instead. I think he might have seen himself as a Christlike figure - sacrificing himself for the salvation of his daughter. I also think this man should NEVER get out of prison.
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Preacher Man
Judgement is the sovereign domain of the Lord. So, I won't go there.
But, considering the number of people worldwide who are hell-bent on making fools of themselves trying to demonstrate how much they love Muslims, I'm sure this story would have a considerably different tone had the girl been raised Muslim and wanted to convert to Christianity. The whole matter would have been accepted under Sharia law with little to no investigation.
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Eve Campbell
God said thou shall not kill. End of. Why is this discussion even taking place? By even discussing you are opening possibility of deconstructing.
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Sharon Shores
It's sad --Sad that this is occurring this day and age. He needs to spend the rest of his life in prison.
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Gene
Eye for an Eye..... Kill Him...
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hsw
No one has the right to kill another. That makes us as bad as he is.
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The Doctor
As ever and always people choose to fall into the habit of bickering and trying to one up and have the last word in.
That should not be when the topic is such tragedy.
A young woman on the cusp of adulthood living in the land that holds freedom up as the epitome of its reason for being founded has been slain by the one man she should have been able to have counted upon for protection.
Ones personal faith is just that personal, and no one has any place in the U.S. to dictate what we shall believe. Sadly this girl, being in the height of youthful defiance did not anticipate her father well enough to keep her cards close to her vest and wait till she could get far away from the mentally ill zealot. Because lets not fool ourselves here, anyone who would kill their own child, especially due to religious motivations is so mentally ill they belong locked up in a padded room for the remainder of their days on this world.
He was no christian, but a wannabe who payed lip service, while ignoring the actual words that his messiah spoke. True christians are 100% pacifism incarnate. People often seem to forget old testament is pre christ, its the judaic text that Jesus himself found appalling due to its violent egocentric and greedy nature.
The 10 commandments are Judaic and thick with the potential for inciting violence. The 7 sins are Christian, and make it very clear what is wrong and that any of the sins when acted out for any reason are wrong. Wrath for example, hurting one who has hurt you is just as sinful as the one who hurt you.
Later Christianity mutated by the romans and later by King James ordering a selected editing of the bible has resulted in many false christians, people who believe they can sin yet still find salvation. I can promise all like that, that Jesus will be the first to cast your soul to damnation in disgust as he will to this man who murdered his innocent daughter.
I feel sorrow for this young lady who is lost to us, I feel sorrow for the young muslim man who has had the girl he loved killed savagely and will now suffer PTSD and guilt for doing nothing more then loving her. I feel sorrow for all her friends, and those who knew and loved her. I feel disgust and contempt for the failure of a father who murdered her because she wanted to live her life, not the one he directed her to live.
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Sleepingwolf Wineman
As minister Creator judges us only one yes he did wrong taking his daughters life but yes should be punished but not killing him just lock up in the Creator hands his faith fellow ministers
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Minister Walls
Allow God to handle God's business.
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hsw
That works better if one believes in God.
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Craig Clement
His punishment should be the same as any other murderer. To destroy a living creature out of spite or some outdated religious view should not be tolerated in any society.
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Dean
That man took it into his hands to take away his daughters God given right to live and learn on this earth. No matter the reason, in his mind, he had no right to do so.
I believe he should spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement to reflect on his actions and live with his pain.
I feel a death penalty would only be our way of getting rid of a "problem". And I do not view solitary confinement as cruel or unusual punishment.
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Sleepingwolf Wineman
As minister I don't think should judge him but it is wrong to kill but only the Creator judges us let his faith be in Creators hands
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Lori Savolainen
Life in prison, no chance of parole.
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Mark S.
The question is: does any man, including those that punish murders have the authority to take a life. My belief is that neither the father, judge, you or I have been granted that athority, to kill the gift of life. So what is left in terms of punishment when we set our rage, hate and anger aside? That's the difficult question, life in prison? Possibly, I wish I had that answer.
I wish he knew Muslim people and understood the goodness of so many of my Muslim friends. They love God, which is our God, btw, their children and community. I fear this hate and ignorance over understanding and thinking and the obvious results of those who hate so easily.
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John Owens
Any society has EVERY right to take a life in punishment for certain crimes, and no one can ever say it is not an effective deterrent for those crimes, because a person who has been executed will never repeat their crime again. Of course, their guilt should be well-proven first, and I cannot say that our judicial system is totally fair.
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Mark S.
John, I am not speaking about the rights of society, but rather the authority of men as our lord has taught us. The society of men will determine and apply punishment based upon an ever fluid morality. As I have said, I am not certain what should be done, I hope wiser men will have a better answer.
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John Owens
Ah. I misunderstood what you were saying, Mark. I do not think that an individual has a right to take another human life except in cases of self-defense or defense of another human's life, so I believe you and I are not so far apart on that.
If it is found that this man murdered his daughter, I believe his society should put him to death. He will be lucky if her moslem boyfriend doesn't go vendetta on him. The vendetta, in countries that do not offer true justice, is the fallback justice system. If any nation does not have a fair and effective justice system, the vendetta system, or blood feud will gain in popularity, since the government is not performing the main function for which it was created.
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LtBil Drat
This happened in Israel. Non residents comments are irrelevant anyway.
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John Owens
For real.
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Darnell Murray
He should be killed the same way he did his daughter ,, I'm sorry may God forgive for thinking like that but there no Honor in killing your own child
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John Owens
I can't speak for God specifically, but I don't think God would disagree. For justice to BE justice, it has to reciprocal. That is part of the meaning of justice. Fair and equal.
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George
No matter religion, do not waste your time. Killing is a crime and deserves the full weight of the law, how difficult is it to understand this ???
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mary
What does it matter how much we argue that it is in the bible? The girl is still dead and for what? Falling in love with "the wrong person". Her father killed her out of some stupid bygone biblical law that no longer applies. He should have to spend his life in prison. If anyone tries to justify honor killings because of the bible, they really need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves if they truly believe it. Would you do that to your child? Would you say it's alright for someone to take your daughter's life if they saw them cavorting with the "wrong religious person"? To justify this is throwing away the teachings of Jesus. He taught us that love is the key, not religion. Love in its purist form. The girl loved a boy and was killed for it. And too many are justifying it because the bible says it's what to do. She did not dishonor anyone. Her father was a bigot, should be seen as a bigot, and should have to face the punishment for murder. Period.
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Rev Michael Clark
Death or life in prison There is no honor here. Man my choose to kill another but its not to honor God, only man.
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Tom B
John...i understand narcissism as self-indulgence...i am not doing that, and i simply would like to know your understanding of it...Tom
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LeRyan Burrey
This man should serve life in prison to know what it means to forgive. He deserves to die, since we have feelings, we are not made by them. Our parents make us, and henceforth we have feelings. If truth is what it is, then when we have feelings, we have options. If we have options, then we have choices. If there is choice at play, then there are freedoms. If there is freedom, then there is liberty.
This is where the separation of church and state begins. This is line: choice, even when impassioned with holy fury, for we are not the judge, jury, and executioners as individuals. If the judge is sound, they would understand that life in prison is the forgiveness that that father should've bestowed upon his daughter. Better he learned what forgiveness is for the rest of his life, then be killed and not learn anything.
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Tom B
John...perhaps it would help if you explained what "narcissism" means to you, as well as what "religion" means to you...i am not above anyone, regardless of how you construe what I say...why are you defensive about this?...you and I are equal...Tom
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John Owens
Tom, if you know what narcissism means, I don't have to tell you. If you don't know, you shouldn't say things like:
"Tom
July 28, 2017 at 2:24 pm
Rob…well put…religions are narcissistic by definition; they generate ego, judgment and adversity…Tom"
If you say something derogatory about ALL religion, it is not defensive for me to point out that you are being obtuse.
Now, I have to go. I will not be back before Monday.
Au revoir
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Tom B
John...so what?...we were only talking about religions...Tom
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John Owens
Religions are not any more narcissistic than the humans who propagate them, Tom. You preach a religion, Tom, that is very narcissistic. It may not be an organized religion with a lot of followers, but it is YOUR narcissistic religion, anyway. Any real religion is a way of life, guided by a philosophy, or way of looking at things. Your way is no less narcissistic, maybe even is MORE narcissistic, because you think you are above some thoughts or behaviors. You are not. You never were. You never will be. You are the same as those upon whom you look down.
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Memirsbrunnr@RobV (@Memirsbrunnr)
Tragic... And there I thought that the habitual Christian thing to do through the ages was not killing your daughter but kill the guy who had laid his hands on her.. This looks a lot like cultural appropriation of Islamic habits. :-(
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Minister Rob
Narcissistic religions and their zealots are all about indoctrination, brainwashing, control, power, psychological abuse, etc.
If you're going to worship and be thankful, worship the creator of the universe and life...instead of worshiping a narcissistic religion.
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Tom B
Rob...well put...religions are narcissistic by definition; they generate ego, judgment and adversity...Tom
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John Owens
Yeah, and no other groups of humans do anything like that...
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hsw
Deflection is not a good tool.
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John Owens
Neither is the hypocrisy of criticizing religion but not every other human philosophy or school of thought. I suppose you are also opposed to intellectual honesty, H.
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Rev. Nancy Willingham
Greetings, Minister Friends, I researched the newspaper reports on this murder. The victim and her family were Arab Christians. In the middle east, honor killing is an Arab tradition. Her family priest said that his flock has strong cultural traditions that are in conflict with Christianity, and he just has to accept it (my interpretation of his words). So, my thought is that there are many cultural traditions that are in conflict with the religious beliefs taught within any culture. Isn't it the responsibility of religious leaders to oppose cultural norms that are in conflict with the faith, whatever faith that may be? Swimming upstream may cause the loss of some members, but going with flow is not being a leader. Jesus did not go with the flow. Let all of us who lead spiritual communities pray for the wisdom and courage to oppose local "norms" not in keeping with whatever faith community we serve.
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John Owens
Amen, Nancy
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Tom B
Nancy...respectfully, religions only get in the way of spirituality, by alleging a "go-between" between people and God...they are not necessary...what is necessary to spirituality is loving and caring, and any religion or organization that in any way advocates violence is unfortunate...Tom
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Shane MacQuarrie
Tom, Please stop trolling. We get it, you believe yourself to be above the rest because you think that your way is the best way. Stop trying to prove your pseudo intellectual POV is anything other than ego.
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Tom B
Shane...you have the right to use all of the pejorative words you want, but you are wrong...no one is better than anyone else, and my "view" is not directed toward proving anything...if you have a question, i will consider it...Tom
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James
Propaganda, propaganda alert! Benefits are not free. America a is not socialist nor communist. The removal of an expensive illegal law is not killing. Obama care was a lie from the first day. The removal of a enormous leach is a must. He who doesn't work, doesn't eat. Now that is said, where has the Christian killed in the name of Christ alone, where in the Bible does it say kill humans in his name, honor kill, or Amy other thing? You will not find any. Jewish law is not Christian, personal beliefs are not Christian teachings.
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Los Guy
Every country has to have some social organizations to protect its citizens. I know you will just poo poo this but think about it this way. We live a*shole to apatite in cities and if we have no health care for those that can't afford it, (Emergency room visits by these people are never paid for so sending them to emergency rooms is a far greater cost than healthcare) we have a ticking time bomb. Just like during the plagues of Europe and England they started with the poor and homeless and spread all the way to the nobility. If we have an extremely virulent outbreak with a long gestation period from an unknown pathogen that is airborne it could go not just nation wide but world wide...
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James
I don't agree. We live in the greatest country the world has ever known. Yet, socialized anything fails every time. If you need an example, try looking at the V. A. 100% socialized and can't wipe its own butt. Every other country in the world has tried different types of care. The best care, best doctors, best medicine all come from us. The capitalist, Anglo Christian, free country call the United States of America. Day what you will, but that there is a fact. Without the USA the world would be a much more horrible place. Chaos is freedom, freedom is not save, yet we can control the chaos with money. That's capitalism. We can't do it half way or else bad things happen.
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Los Guy
James, I agree that social org's in America have problems and most of them stem from the word Socialism and the way politicians, afraid of becoming a communist country, screwed the actual process. The US has brainwashed many into believing that Socialism in any form turns us into a Communist state. With that POV it is hard to get politicians (most grew up during the Cold War) to think of, create and implement a cogent social program without stupid caveats that do more harm than good. There is nothing wrong with some socialism it is the problem that are created by politicians implementing s social program with the fear of turning the US into a communist state rather than thinking clearly about a social program. One of the best social programs is Social Security, that had collected so much money that Congress has borrowed it to death and now refuses to pay back what it owes Social Security...
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John Owens
To me, this illustrates that you cannot trust government with your money, and they always want more and more. If they can promise more of your money to someone else, someone else is all for it.
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James
Any time we trust the govt with power, it takes a war to restrain the govt back to its original power. This great country was built on the people limiting the govt. The rest of the world was built in the govt allowing its people to do certain things. Socialized anything can't work here. Like mixing concrete with bubble gum. Nothing good will come of it. Life, liberty and justice. That is the polar opposite of socialism. Respect for your neighbors, mind your own business, and build your empire. Isn't that what built America?
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Ben
The followers of the one true god, commit more murder in his name (even though it's against his commandments) then any other faith. Look at the Republicans trying to kill Trumpcare, so called Christians trying to strip 28 million Americans of healthcare. The behavior of His followers terrifies me.
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John Owens
Ben, I guess you're just trying to start an argument with your BS, but I gotta call BS. You are full of it. First, you are a liar, second, you are trying to turn this tragedy into an excuse to spread your lie. Blow it out your backside.
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John Owens
Whatever his reason, it was a horrible thing to do. I love my own daughter, son, and grandchildren more than my own life, and therefore more than my pride or family name. I cannot comprehend a human killing their own progeny. It is totally against nature, civilization, and God to do that. I could not contemplate it. I hope that all involved find mercy. The Christians who live among Muslims may pick up some of their ways, but this is unfathomable.
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Jenson
This sort of killing is actually from the Bible as well; it is not a Muslim thing. It's not really a Christian thing either. It's more of a that-part-of-the-world thing. Please don't forgot the murderous and incestuous history laid out in the Bible as committed by the "chosen people" and Christ's followers. The religions of Abraham are all similarly immoral.
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James
Old Testament is a book of history and old covenant law for Christians. Remember, Jesus said "let those with no sin cast the first stone", hince removing that kind of thing for the blood covenant Era. Another words, the books might as well have been written for two different worlds or species of people.
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John Owens
The RELIGIONS are highly moral. The PRACTICIONERS are not all highly moral. I do know there is no command to murder your daughter for marrying a Muslim. I would just disown and disinherit mine, the same as if she married a child-molester or murderer.
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Tom B
John...the religions may be moral (an artificial term, based on ego); they are not ethical (respect for all)...Tom
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John Owens
Mine teaches respect for all. I admit I often exhibit less respect for others than an humble man should, but that is usually in a reciprocal mode. Still, we are to show hospitality and courtesy to people all people. We are to pray for our enemies (and I don't necessarily mean pray for them to die of hideous boils). I don't think the human life of people who are not our kinsmen would be valued at all if NOT for religion, but because God said if one person murdered another their life would be forfeit, other lives do have value, equal to our own.
That does not mean not to kill at all, though, just not to murder for selfish reasons, which was what this Arab man did to his daughter.
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Tom B
John...thank you for writing...my view is that we should not decide who to kill...Tom
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John Owens
That goes against abortion, Tom. People MUST decide whom to kill. If they do not, others will. If you have children, and someone is trying to break in and kill them, the OTHER person has decided FOR you that you either kill the intruder, or allow the intruder to kill your children. Perhaps you would just stand and vacillate, but indecisiveness IS a decision to do nothing. Inaction IS action. We kill each and every day. We step on bugs and we drive. We eat. Something has to die for us to live. Every day. We wash, and kill germs, bacteria. Killing is part of living. We just need to do it very selectively.
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Los Guy
Actually in and around 64AD Rome controlled Egypt. This is 250 years before Rome under Constantine in 300AD Converted Rome to Christianity. Archaeologist have found that Rome was pushing Christianity to the Egyptians in 64AD, 250 years before it believed in Christianity. This is a vital piece of evidence that proves that Rome created Christianity to control the masses. The oldest versions of the NT can only be found in Greek. Geographical anomalies in the NT reflect Roman and Greek geographers knowledge and not from someone that is familiar with the Holy Land. The first four books of the NT were not written by their name sakes but were anonymous authors. The first and second Councils of Nicaea chose the books of the NT by the new Ecumenical Council in Rome. Written by the Greeks for the Roman's as a way to stop captive countries from revolting by teaching a philosophy of accepting one's lot in life and not trying to change it so when you die your piece of sh*t life you leave and get to have all of the earthly goods that they did not have, forever...
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John Owens
Guy, the way you and I interpret Romanism is very similar, and I have tried for 40 years to tell people that most of what they are taught is just brainwashing to make them good subjects, easy to exploit and discard. Good job there.
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Tom B
John...as i said, you are entitled to your beliefs...fyi: i do not kill/eat animals, fish, shellfish, poultry...you are never, ever forced to kill...you are free to create your own value system to justify killing, but that is all it is: your own value system...Tom
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Tom B
ULC...once again I am asking you not to be a censor...Tom
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John Owens
I don't create value systems Tom. I LEARN them. You would do well to learn from someplace besides wherever it is YOU are learning. Your values may serve you well during times of peace and plenty, but if you stick with them in rough times, you will be in someone's stew pot. Not mine-- I only eat animals with split hooves that chew cud and scaly fish and poultry. But someone's. Let me ask you this, you think you're some kind of higher life form because you only eat plants. Are any of those plants killed before you eat them? I mean, some root vegetables have to be uprooted to be eaten. Doesn't that kill them? Do you suppose anyone has to kill any animals to ALLOW those plants to grow? Do you think maybe the people who store and transport those plants use exterminators to keep insects and rodents out of them? You are STILL killing in order to eat.
Whoever is feeding you your doctrine is just preparing you for victimhood, and you are apparently naïve enough to go for it.
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Tom B
John...i am not being "fed" anything...unfortunately, you are wrong, as you do create your own value system...and i do not consider it higher or lower; you are the one trying to create differences...think about it...Tom
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John Owens
Just answer the questions I posed to you about your involvement in killing, then.
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John Owens
That's what I thought.
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Tom B
John...i believe you are right that plants die, and there is probably some death of insects, bacteria etc in the harvesting of plants...to be very specific for you: beyond meat, fish, poultry, shellfish etc, i do not kill insects directly...by the way, did you see the article about the couple that lives on life energy, and does not eat food?...Tom
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John Owens
No, Tom. Come to think of it, I don't remember reading any article about people living on life energy. That would be a true miracle if it could be proven, since it is physiologically impossible for the heart to continue to beat or the brain to function without nutrients and minerals, but I won't say it can't happen.
Now, back to growing veggies, you know, land doesn't clear and cultivate itself. Trees must be cut, destroying the nests and habitat of birds. The ground must be tilled, destroying the burrows of moles and mice. It's just so sad. No matter what we do, creatures die, and some of it is directly due to competition between species.
Every ecosystem apparently needs an alpha predator. That is science. If I could have the real manna that the Israelites had, it might suffice, but I can't swear to that.
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James
I agree, Adam was told that we would have to eat from the earth and the fruits of our labors. All things of this earth have an order that works best. Other ways can work but not with the best outcome. Over indulgence can destroy any system, but a carefully managed system with the right parts and pieces works great. Live, death, growth, harvest they are all part of this system. Wisdom, intelligence, patience are too.
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Tom B
John...if you give me an email address, or some address I can send to, I will send you the article...and i do not feel we are the "alpha" in this "world"...if anything, we are the most destructive force in it...Tom
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John Owens
Tom, in many places we are the protectors and defenders. In others, we destroy one habitat to create another. The poaching of endangered species, for example is horrible, but in fact, without human interference, many more species would be extinct. The fact is, we cannot allow the elements (nature) to return to the primordial chaos. Large horses cannot devolve into eohippus, and polar bears cannot devolve in grizzlies. We ourselves cannot devolve into Australopithecus or zinjanthropous. I will have to devise some means of giving you an email address. I don't want Maher to be sexting me.
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Tom B
John...email me at "attorneyblumenthal14@gmail.com"...with regard to the activities of humans in this "world", it is not clear to me as to whether there is a good direction...what may appear harsh in "worldly" terms, seems to me to be the playing out of various karma...without getting too much into semantics, i see this world as a lab for karma, that will never reach what we consider to be perfection, because perfection is the peace of returning to God...Tom
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Debbie
Amen, Tom. There is no reason to take an innocent life.
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Tom B
There is never any honor in taking the life of another person...the killer brings dishonor to his family, and strong, upsetting karma to himself...to see any "honor" in the killing is arrogant, egocentric misunderstanding of spiritual life...and religion should be irrelevant...it is sad...Tom
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Rev Marti
This is a blog about discussing various religious beliefs. The nastiness I am seeing here is unnecessary. You can disagree, but don't attack each other. I don't know who you are John, but this is not the place to call people names. Please go to Facebook or twitter to spare the rest of us your foul language, please. Robert has his opinions and is allowed to have them. If you want to disagree, please use reasonable facts.
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marie
Hi I do agree we should be discussing issues and not persons. People How many GODS are there? You were born into a faith and you believe that you have the absolute truth, wisdom ect? Take the time, Do a journey into self. Ask yourself the hard questions? Why am I REALLY upset about this issue or others' opinions? What makes me happy, Sad , joyful, frustrated etc.? When you truly begin to learn yourself you will understand who and what God really is. When you do you will be capable of compassion. I pray for the father. His daughter was more spiritually advanced than he is in that she was able to see God in someone that is different. There is a God and a Devil in each of us! I GOD made all things He made the devil also and it was GOOD. The devil is to test the spirit. On when the spirit is tested it gets strong. I wish you all strength on this our spiritual journey. Marie
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John Smithkey lll
I agree fully with your comment. Let's stick to the issues and stop the nastiness. I just signed up for the blogs to gain practice in responding to issues. And I was very shocked to read some of the comments that had little to do with the issues, but to the negativity, and rudness, seemed to take up most of the space in some subjects. I thought we were all ministers in the United Life Church Monastery. Our comments should reflect a higher standard then what I've recently read. John Smithkey
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Los Guy
Killing is the answer to a weak and uneducated mind. Killing for any reason is useless and never really accomplishes anything except more hate and violence...
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James
I disagree. Violence is a tool. It depends on who and how it is used.
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Robert Sherman Nix III
It all sounds like a made up dilemma of the presd ,"a Christian in Israel killed his daughter to prevent her from marrying a Muslim"? but in few days the truth might be different
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John Maher
ROBERT NIX is ANOTHER VILLAGE IDIOT!!!
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Earth angel
There's no place for negative bullying in Christianity
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hsw
There's no place for negative bullying here even for those who are of another belief.
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John Eftimiades
This sort of thing has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. We are appalled (as we should be) that such a thing goes on in the 21st century, but are only made aware of it because of the technology that exist in the transfer of information. We can probably feel a little appeased that the number of atrocities of this type that go on today are but a fraction of the number that occurred in the past. Still the taking of a life in this fashion is still a murder. I see little difference between an act like this and the religious zealot who straps on a bomb on him/herself to destroy the "non believers" because the written word of God has said it was his/her duty. I am not sure how we all proceed, but move forward we must.
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Robert Sherman Nix III
All these world religions involve the Law and condemnation and penalties to be law in society and so does atheist governments too. Since they are all not with Jesus, it is foreknown that their culture, law, and religion is their law as Law of Moses was the Law of the Israel when in effect with them to obey, and the Roman Law was the law of their society in which Christians was not going to beat with wet noodles or spagetti. State executions and all these things are about governments of the Law and the world religions they seek to become. It is a tragedy but nothing for Christians that are not world domination to do about it after the fact occurs. Maybe the man considered he was saving the girls soul and in that which religion will condemn the man? For like Abraham/Abram was going to sacrifice Issac but the latter day ant-christ might condemn Abraham, and also the sister of the 12 Patriarchs was violated and they took retribution. Religion in some context is serious like a race to honor; religion here in the West is mild and watered down in doctrine but religion is areas that are poor and hard to survive makes honor one of the few things of true value. To marry penniless with honor is better than rich with dishonor. Furthermore, a girl that marries another race or religion is considered as a prostitute that cannot find a suitable mate of her group. But in the West, the government and media sponsor families to prostitute theirselves in that way and forget the facts of honor . So I symphathize she died but it similar to sympathizing with people caught with drugs and executed in Muslim countries.
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James
Christians do not have a thing called honor killing. That's life saying the faith teaches karma! We must stop mixing and confusing idealogies. Respect each other's beliefs but not confuse.
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Rev Marti
There are numerous kinds of Christians, James, and some believe in karma. There are different interpretations including the Gnostic Gospels. An ideology is a system of beliefs or theories, held by an individual or a group. Before you use words you need to understand what they mean. Whatever your church, there are many Christian Churches that live by different doctrines and interpretations that build into a set of beliefs. You don't have the corner on Christianity.
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James
Karma, is not a Christian belief. Outline that in the text. Christians are taught the teachings of Jesus Christ. Not hindu, Buddhist, etc. Liking the beliefs of another faith is not the same as being a Christian and following the teachings of another faith. You are our you aren't.
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Joe Forte
Very clearly in the Bible is speaks about dishonouring your family and retribution needing to be made. The old testament is filled with examples of this. I agree, I have not ever heard of Christians going through with them, but it is in the scriptures.
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Kathleen
every matter of life is in the Scriptures, Joe. Rarely do many or any of us 'interpret' them as God means for His ways are far above our own. We seem more enamored of our thoughts and have nutria ninja'd the Scriptures so much that we ought take care about the 'jot and tittle' warnings. But that darned free will? well, there it is. regardless of denomination or belief we are all family and not so easy to love, huh?
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Reverend Krysteia Hake
It also states," thou shalt not kill"
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Yvette Moore
Isn't there a phrase along the lines of 'as ye sow, so shall ye reap'? That sounds a bit like the concept of karma to me.
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James
Try finding the sentence and what book it is in, then you will realize that it's in the old Testament. Christians are under the blood covenant. The new Testament. No karma, no pound of flesh, no sacrifices( killing the best of what you have), just to pay dues to the creator. Just a little research and you will find the truth. Jesus allows for no reincarnation, no karma... That's the Christian doctrine. It's simple.
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James
Yet, I am pretty sure karma had to do with the universe repaying your actions. which is strictly against the idea of God controlling everything and saying the universe is in control. Nope, nope, nope, not for the Christian. Just saying
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Tom B
Yvette...you are on the right track...karma is balance, not a judgment of right and wrong...and the universe is God; there is no dichotomy...and there is reincarnation, regardless of what any church may want people to believe, in order to control them...churches pretend there is only one life, so they can pretend people will go to hell or heaven (or anything else they are called) if they do not do what the church tells them to do...as i have said before, there is no good reason for religion, which just puts a hierarchy between people and God...Tom
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James
Tom, did mentioned Christianity and the Bible explicitly. Not a hodgepodge of religious beliefs or any other form. However, by removing her point that karma is part of the Bible. Then everyone can believe their own faith. Yet, Christians cannot. The doctrine is pretty straight forward and the universe was created by God, not the universe is God. In my faith, as it was and is taught.
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Tom B
James...i respect your ability to believe anything you choose...but in your belief, what is the difference between God and the universe?...Tom
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James
Tom, in Christianity, God created the universe. Like a human building a garden. It is only because of God that the universe exists, and it is to serve him and provide a physical medium for his other creations. I also respect anyone's freedom to believe, as long as it doesn't come to harm others. Defense is an acceptable cause for violence. But to go out and teach conversation or death is too far. To answer the next question. yes, every "religion has been used to cause harm at one point in time. That's freedom of thought. Dangerous but necessary.
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Tom B
James...let me put it another way..how do you define God, and how do you define the universe...and with regard to violence, when did Jesus sanction violence for any reason?...Tom
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James
Tom, my definition of the universe is the same as science. The known universe. God is the creator. Jesus did not sanction violence. The verses you lead to are not about insane, other religions, etc. It's about people of your faith. Defense is a God given right, war is biblical as well. Yet people forget about the being no peace until Jesus returns. But we can keep trying. Read, research and understand the text before misquoting it please.
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John Owens
Blind leading the blind
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James
Christ VS Hindu VS Buddhist VS ???? When all viewed metaphysically, they all teach the similar things... Most all differences are HUMAN phaneron, egotistical modifications & interpretations that cloud the true meaning & depth of biblical teaching.
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Tom B
James...respectfully, please read what I write, before you comment...i did not quote anyone or anything...i asked a question...to me, either you believe in violence, or you do not...the reasons for the violence are not relevant...and the various bibles, Korans etc are simply a supposed history of violence, and are not spiritual...and you did not answer my question as to what is God?...and the phrase 'known universe" is an oxymoron...try to be open...Tom
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James
Respectfully, does the creator not define my belief? The universe to be is all things physical. But I do sense a bit of ego in your denial of my ability to answer your question. I've shared it at least 3 times. As for violence, it is real. If the only thing you get from the named doctrines is violence and the record there of, then I think you're not looking for enlightenment, an answer, but to only state a question, to poke for information in order to ask another question that will only lead to another question. Never fulfilling your desire for an answer to why I have faith in the dogma of my choice. So in short, violence is the end of every fight, the answer to defense, and human nature. That's why Good people try to not be violent until they must be. As for your faith, I'm still looking for your position, other than opposing most others positions. So offer up a complete answer to the world's illments, and the human issue? Remember, we are all different and believe different. I only state what I believe, what my doctrine teaches, and when it has been taught incorrectly. Not what other religions teach. Any dogma is welcome to debate, but please don't tell me what my faith teaches if you're not of my faith, or an expert. Just simply state your case. Again, there has never been, and never will be any "honor killing" in the Christian faith. It's not a thing.
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Tom B
James...let me try to be as specific as possible...i agree there is no such thing in a spiritual sense as "Honor Killing"...all it is is an ego justification for violence...and i do not agree there is ever any justification for offensive violence...if we are attacked, we should move away...
You asked what i believe...that we are all the same as equal souls...perceptual differences are in the on-going reincarnations to ultimately balance our karma, and not come back to this world of physical, emotional and mental illusion...
I do not avoid answering any non-aggressive questions...i do not know what you mean by the "physical universe"...i do not know what you mean by "does the creator not define my belief"...i am trying to understand your views, but you seem to be getting defensive about them...i do not want to make you feel defensive...
Every day I am trying to get closer to enlightenment, which in my view is to go beyond my body, my ego/mind, my emotions...they are not me...i am a part of what is called God, just as is everyone...no one is better than anyone else; we are just at different stages of going toward enlightenment...
I wish you enlightenment; nothing more, nothing less...
Tom
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Jenson
So I guess James believes that Christians should never try to convert anyone to Christianity for any reason because "we must stop mixing and confusing ideologies[sic]." James, since most Christians do proselytize, you must then think that most Christians are doing the same thing that resulted in this young woman's death. Since you did not condemn her murder, it follows that you would be okay with most Christians being murdered. If not, let me know where you misspoke or made your logical error.
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James
Don't mislead your belief with what I stated. Read what I said. Karma, reincarnation, etc is not Christian teachings. One should not teach that they are the same faith. Or even close. Teaching and spreading your belief is different than teaching all beliefs and doctrine as the same. I think that is wrong. P. C. Is coding peoples abilities to tell a rabbit from a dog. Yet they are not the same. Why attack the one that points out the obvious difference or misplaced claims of uninformed individuals?
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Tom B
James...people ought to stop considering religions and other beliefs, and realize we are all the same; come from the same place; go back and forth to the same place; have to work out our karma...religions are just intellectual, ego-oriented concepts; they have no real meaning...Tom
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John Owens
Stop considering religions and other beliefs... we are all the same? On what planet do you live? I have to consider that there are people who will kill me because of my skin color. They think I owe them something. There are people who hate me because I hate socialism. There are many millions of people who would kill me because I think Allah is another name for Satan and Mohammed was a pervert and false prophet. Guess what, Tom, WE AIN'T THE SAME. Go to Saudi Arabia and tell the people religions are just intellectual, ego-oriented concepts that have no real meaning. You'll find out really quickly that we are not the same. If someone tells me that, I'll call them on B.S. You tell some people that, they will kill you on the spot. If you have any sense of self-preservation, you'd better learn that.
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Tom B
John...you are entitled to your beliefs...self-preservation is a temporal concept...i would never hurt someone because of any religious belief...to me, that is not sane..all the violence generates karma to be worked out in lifetime after lifetime...you are free to understand that or not...the eradication of religions will go a long way to "creating" a better world, but it is not likely, as this world of egocentric illusions "exists" to work out karma...i wish you peace...Tom
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Tom B
ULC...there is no valid reason to "moderate" (censor) my comments, which always, ultimately advocate loving and caring...so please do not censor...thank you...Tom
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John Owens
I didn't say I would kill anyone over religion, but there are those who WOULD kill me or members of my family over religion. Knowing that, it would be foolish for me not to be willing to kill them to protect myself or my family.
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Tom B
I understand trying to avoid being killed...i do not understand killing anyone...Tom
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James
Yet all I ask is to realize what a religion teaches, and assign the facial differences. Not simply believe that just because we are all human, we should all be the same. That's how people get taken advantage of. We are all different. Groups may believe the same ideas, act the same way. But in total contraindication of another group. Peace is a utopian idea, by definition. No where at any time. But we can trive to reach as close as we realistically can. But telling everyone we are the same and therefore should think the same will never and has never worked. Just saying.
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John Owens
Sometimes killing is the only way to avoid being killed, Tom. The world is not an abstract, and it is populated by humans who are not all living and thinking at the same level of civilization. If a civilized man is thrust among savages, he needs to learn a bit of savagery if he is to survive.
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Tom B
John...from my view, killing to avoid being killed is still killing...but views on that, to me, are subject to reincarnation and karma...97% of recorded history has a war going on...has this gotten us anywhere here?...Tom
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John Owens
Killing and murder are two different things, Tom, like controlled demolition for a good purpose and wanton destruction are two different things. I don't know why you can't see that.
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Debbie
I can only speak for the US, but here killing and murder are two different things. Killing is what taking the life of another is commonly understood to be. Murder is a legal conclusion to be arrived at by a judge or jury. The two are used interchangeably in everyday speech, but that is grammaticaly wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to me to kill for the defense of self or the defense of others. Those are the only two reasons why it is acceptable to kill. Only a barbarian would kill his or her child over that child's selection of a mate, and only a barbarian would call for the killing of a person who has committed murder. People seem to forget that the Bible is divided into the old and the new. The violent bloody killing business seems confined to the old. Jesus is supposed to be about turning the other cheek. I find it disgusting that anybody would use religion as an excuse for killing, be it this so-called honor killing nonsense of a child or nonhuman animals used as sacrifice to a bloodthirsty deity.
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John Owens
I would just point out-- the divisions of Old T. and New T. in the Bible are artificial and planted there by papists. Neither Christ nor Paul nor Peter nor Timothy, or John or any of the authors of the Epistles and the Revelation ever said anything about dividing the book. Indeed, they did not HAVE all of those books comprising what is erroneously referred to as New Testament. When they searched the scriptures, they were searching Torah, Psalms, and Prophets, not Matthew - Revelation.
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Tom B
James...i am not advocating that everyone think the same...i do advocate treating everyone the same...to me, the only commandment necessary is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you...Tom
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James
Actually, that is the only commandment Jesus stated. They others were before the blood covenant. You validated my Christian values. Thank ya. But being meek, turn the other cheek only goes for the reaction to sane people. Not a murderous group wanting to take everything you're blessed with.
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Tom B
John...killing is not a matter of semantics...taking a life is taking a life, regardless of what you call the action...however, you are free to disagree...Tom
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John Owens
I didn't say killing is semantics. NOTHING is semantics except SEMANTICS! I'm saying, sometimes taking life is necessary or justified and sometimes it is NOT. Again, you fail to see the obvious. Let me ask you this: Is abortion killing? Now, would killing say, a four-year-old be worse, better, or equal to aborting a baby 20 weeks into gestation? If you saw the person about to shoot the four-year-old and shot them to prevent that four-year-old's death, would that be better, worse, or equal? YOU are the one playing with semantics, and you think it makes you look smart to yourself, but it doesn't to anyone else.
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Tom B
John...your position that there is a difference between killing and murder is semantics to me, as i feel they are both taking a life, and i do not want to take a life...i am not trying to look smart; i am just trying to live a loving, caring life...whether others agree with me or not, does not change how i try to understand and live...Tom
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John Owens
If you'd take your head out of your backside, you'd see that killing and murder are two different things. If you can't see it, it's because you have your head in your backside.
Enjoy the view.
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Debbie
Killing is taking a life. Murder is a legal conclusion, namely that there has been a killing of a human being without consent and without privilege. I firmly believe that the taking of an innocent nonhuman animal life should also be called murder.
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John Owens
If you live in ANY kind of domicile, some poor innocent animals HAD to have lost their lives or at least some of their habitat in order for the raw materials composing that domicile to be gathered. Where there is no death, there is no life either. We can agree that innocent human life should not be taken, and we can agree that we should not just kill animals for fun. Beyond that, you become a new age weirdo with very little chance of survival when the delivery trucks don't stock the stores for a week or two.
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James
I hear liberal tears falling. Animals all over the world are dieing of starvation every day because some vegan, or vegetarian has eaten those poor innocent animals food and now the over populated species is dieng off. Wasting away instead of being eaten as intended. Order has been stated and if we like the good life, we must follow that order. We can deny it and live a lesser life but why do that?
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hsw
James, please cite your source for "Animals all over the world are dieing of starvation every day because some vegan, or vegetarian has eaten those poor innocent animals food and now the over populated species is dieng off."
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James
Really, do I need to source sarcasm for ya too. Watch the old film about wolves in Yellowstone national park. That should establish the idea of order for ya. Then if we all eat grass and seaweeds, that just might put animals at risk of starvation. Cause it doesn't have the biomass as an animal. And animals eat grass. Or we just twick their DNA and get them to eat vegans and vegetarians. Problem solved. Feed the grass eaters to the new geneticly altered carnivores. Bahaha. See its funny. Now, everybody lighten up. This story is most likely propaganda.
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Robert Sherman Nix III
The media takes a tragedy and profiteers on it it seeks to sensationalize all religions as extremest to cover up their own. It is not a perfect world, what difference what religions or what difference if that was the family law, because religious opnion also does not do any good to go overuling people's custims. If the girl knew she was volating her family code to go frolicking out of her family law, how is she vindicated by outside sinners and hypocrites opinions,? If the law was to be stoned for fornication and so forth is their family law, then let them alone with their law. To inteferere or intervene is not work of God, for if God had wanted it then God would have intervened. That might be hard, but I learned in college and elsewhere how missionaries went to Africa before or after a trading Post was established and the law followed them. So when they change local customs it was the case the locals were losing under the law when in conflict with missionaries opinions on local issues of life and death such as the beliefs twins were evil manifestations. So they were left in the jungle to die or something the missionaries did not like. However to intervene invariably brought conflicts and more losses. So if such things happen, they know the consequences if their law well enough. What all this media stuff chooses to do is be versus all the people and portray their media as advisory or benelovent. It is none of our business she wanted to frolicking outside of her families directive which was foolish because if the boyfriend actually had cared for her then he would have respected her as being in a group not proper for him. But he had a fetish for Christian women I suppose, so did the boyfriend really care or he really endangered the Christian girl. Furthermore, the issue if this was a Church such as Catholicism was if the girl was going to convert and loose her soul, not her right to frolick with Muslims
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John Maher
ROBERT NIX a F..K..g IDIOT LIKE YOU BEST NEVER BE SEEN in PERSON by ME, I would be MORE than HAPPY to turn OFF UR LITEs, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Kirk
John! All of your posts are psycho!
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hsw
Please point to the place where the article indicated that she was "frolicking" or at least describe wth it means.
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John Owens
i had difficulty understanding your comment, Robert. Not sure what you were saying about anything.
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Charles
It is clear to me that he condones it. She 'frolicked' outside the xtian faith and was punished for it.
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John Owens
I guess all groups have rules, but they are seldom fairly enforced.
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hsw
What does that even mean?
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Nancy Lynne
Just rambling scary pseudo preaching from Mr. Nix! Sounds like a hate crime pure and simple! He would rather kill his beautiful 17 year old daughter than watch her happily embrace another culture? He has deprived the world of a beautiful young woman who embraces diversity. I would love to know if he is/was a practicing Christian or a go to churvh on holiday Christian?
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Emanuel Shajhef Quinton
There are many laws... there are many personal codes. He may have been justified following the laws of his family, but just as there are family laws and personal codes there are also county laws, parish laws, state laws and federal laws. He my be justified by the laws of his family but he still broke the laws of the land. You must follow the laws of the land no matter where you choose to live no matter who you are. That is that, and by simply saying it is OUR law... we can acknowledge that all day and night but your LAW still violates the law of the land in which you live. So, you may have honored YOUR law, but the law of the land must still be upheld or else there would be anarchy.
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Terry
wow, somebody that makes sense!
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Selma
I'm sorry, but killing your own child does not constitute family law. That is a sin and should be punishable. It is murder in the first degree and the man should get capital punishment.
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Matthew Nation
His ponishment should be death who is he to judge what religious god wants murder is a sin this is not a justified killing
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Lori Savolainen
Good grief!
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Mike Mordhorst
So I'm your opinion, the father had the right to murder his daughter, because of their "family law"? And the courts should stay out of it? And he should be allowed to murder his daughter based on this "family law"? I'm not sure whether you are a special kind of crazy or a special kind of stupid! First of all, family law does not supercede ACTUAL laws. It happens to be (and this may shock you) illegal to commit murder in this country! I can't even say anymore. I'm to angry after reading your idiotic post!
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Nancy Lynne
Agreed and well said!
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drrgrivera
THAT IS TOTALLY DYSFUNCTIONAL. THEIR IS NO HONOR IN KILLING. THAT'S WHY IT'S KILLING. NO EXCUSE. ALL EXCUSES VALIDATE AS EVIDENCE, OUR MURDEROUS NATURE. RELUCTANTLY, TO DEFEND LIFE, WE TAKE A LIFE DURING WAR...BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE MURDEROUS IDEA. YOU ARE DEFENDING YOUR LOVED ONES. NOT MURDERING THEM YOURSELF. WHAT THIS TWISTED MIND DID IS NOT [HOW YOU PROTECT YOUR FAMILY] NOR APPLICABLE. PERIOD.
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joseph
Eye for Eye. HE killed his child and he should die.
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Lori Savolainen
Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
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Right Reverend Desmond Morris
Very well said.
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John Owens
So that even an idiot can understand.
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Nancy Lynne
It makes no sense to punish with death. We may never be able to rationalize hi warped reasoning but he should have to live with the aftermath of his horrific avtion.
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Christopher
I Believe in do on to others do on thy self. And it was said thou shall not murder. So doing such is a betrayal to our Lord
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James
Many many passages from the Bible can be used in this context. Yet, we must remove the parts that cause us damage. If someone kills your family, remove that person's able to do it again. So do we use cruelty, or end out quickly. Then again killing us different than murder. So, I'm glad I'm not a judge.
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Tom B
Lori...it is sort of a paradox, isn't it...Tom
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James
Exactly Joesph... Eye for an Eye... Karma should take care of this. But, in the mean time. If we fail to protect ourselves, our children and our only planet. Who & what will be left ? Hellooooo Idocracy" (the movie).
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Nancy Lynne
I agree whole heartedly! There is no honor in killing.
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Jennifer Lofton
Dr RG Rivera you are correct. Not a honor but a mercy done. Think of the anguish her father went through knowing the horrors in store for his daughter when she married into Muslim and became property to be severely beaten disfigured and raped to death by her husband because she chose not to have sex at some moment.
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hsw
That's not even close to what Dr. Rivera said - and your bigotry has no place here.
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Rick Smith
The Father deserves what ever the local law allows. Beyond that.... Are we to judge or to spread God's love, by what ever name you choose to call him. We are not called to tear down, but rather to build up our spiritual families. God always gets it right and this man will face his maker about his killing..... And so much more.
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andrew Tetrick
FORGIVENESS!! Forgive him for he knows not what he did!!, If that's good enuff for Jesus I guess we'll have to "go and do likewise..." as he did with his crucifiers in order to transcend the world's (old) law (which was eye for an eye). If we don't, we've NO business calling ourselves "Christian, Muslims, Hindu, Buddhist," etc...or even "spiritual". Watch the movie "THE SHACK". Namaste, Peace and Love worldwide!! Andrew
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James
Forgiveness? YES. Amnesty or a pardon? Guess again... Let them get away with it? Perpetrate it over & over as we all become Lemmings or Amish? It has to stop some place. This is a world where laws & rules protects the criminal, protects ppls egos and protect stupidity way to often & to easy. Send them to Singapore for punishment. We need to stop protecting ppl from their own ignorance & let nature clean them out of the gene pool. PS: I do know & see copious reasons why the Amish are as they are. I do respect that.. BUT, If I see kids beating an Amish horse because they can. I'll step-in & agree to take the Karma.
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David
There are extremists in every religous sect He judged himself by his actions the Lord says I am a God of MANY NAMES he is the same God to many faiths we are not to kill each other over doctrines But learn from each other's walk with GOD!!! Respect each other's views.
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Mark A. White
He should be executed by lethal injection.
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According to God, an eye for an eye. but he is not on earth to mete out punishment. What then should we, as a society, do to keep this person from killing again. In my opinion, I feel that he should not be on the streets; Put him in jail for life!!!