Touchdown, Christianity! The Supreme Court has sided with a high school football coach who lost his job after refusing to stop leading prayers on the field after games.
The case concerns Joseph Kennedy, a football coach at Bremerton High School, a public high school in Washington state. For years, Kennedy prayed after games without issue, both on the 50-yard line and in the locker room with his team.
In 2015, the school district asked Kennedy to stop openly praying, fearing that it could be interpreted as a school endorsement of Christianity – and an infringement of the separation of church and state.
Kennedy sued the school district, alleging a violation of freedom of speech and freedom of religion.
A Legal Hail Mary
For years, numerous lower courts sided with the school district. Undeterred, he appealed all the way to the Supreme Court.
The school's argument was that even if the prayers were “well-intentioned,” they could easily be seen as an endorsement of the Christian faith, leaving the school open to potential litigation.
Additionally, they claimed that the incredibly public way Kennedy prayed – literally kneeling at the 50-yard line after games – put pressure on students to join in with him. In their dissent, the court’s liberal justices agreed, citing individual students who said they felt pressure to join the prayers, lest their position on the team or reputation with their coach be compromised.
But the Supreme Court disagreed. In a 6-3 decision, the justices ruled that the school district was wrong to stop Kennedy from praying. The nation’s highest court sided with the praying coach, arguing that the school district violated his freedom of speech when they stopped the prayers, which were judged to be a private display of faith, rather than potentially coercive.
Writing for the majority, Justice Gorsuch insisted that “[Kennedy] offered his prayers quietly while his students were otherwise occupied.”
Despite the court’s judgment, not everyone is buying the argument that the prayers were solitary in nature.
https://twitter.com/ampol_moment/status/1541464930351816710
As one lower court judge wrote in an earlier ruling, Kennedy “prayed out loud in the middle of the football field… surrounded by players, members of the opposing team, parents, a local politician and members of the news media with television cameras recording the event.”
Is Prayer Contagious, or Coercive?
As Kennedy explains it, he was only offering a solitary prayer for himself, with no pressure on players to join him whatsoever. Students simply kept joining him, out of their own volition, he argues.
Supporters of the ruling say this case shows the power of prayer, and that the decision provides a boon to individual freedom and the free exercise of religion.
Critics, on the other hand, argue that this could be viewed as religious coercion.
For example, they believe players that didn’t share the coach’s Christian faith could reasonably worry that they’d be treated differently if they didn’t participate in the group prayer.
They point out that a nonreligious player might feel compelled to join the prayer circle in order to stay in the coach's good graces (or those of their teammates).
Opponents also insist that it's entirely inappropriate for an influential leadership figure at a public school to practice their faith so prominently in front of students and players.
Did the Court Fumble?
When the court’s decision was announced, social media users immediately began speculating about a world where the facts of the case were slightly different.
What if, for example, the prayers in question were coming from a faith other than Christianity?
Shortly after the ruling, "Jewish or Muslim" began trending on Twitter, as users pondered whether school-sponsored prayers to Allah would net the same legal result.
Perhaps the biggest fear among supporters of the separation of church and state is that the ruling could open the door to a further intrusion of religion into schools.
Teachers have always been allowed to express their faith – think cross necklaces or private prayers alone in classrooms – but could this ruling lead to teacher-led prayer in classrooms?
The dissenting justices seem to fear as much. As Justice Sotomayor wrote in her dissent, “today’s decision is particularly misguided because it elevates the religious rights of a school official, who voluntarily accepted public employment and the limits that public employment entails, over those of his students, who are required to attend school and who this Court has long recognized are particularly vulnerable and deserving of protection.”
What do you think? Did the court fumble this ruling, or is it a legal touchdown for religious liberty?
146 comments
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pjm
What Jesus said about praying in public is crystal clear. He said those who pray in public are hypocrites who are praying just to be seen doing it -- and that is all they will get out of it.
"And when you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But as for you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you." -- Jesus (Matthew 6:5&6
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Minister Linus Spiller Snapp-Craft
The SCOTUS fumbled majorly and they will realize that after lawsuits are filed with individuals of non-Christian want equal play on the praying field/court/track for their child (Judaism, Islam, Wicca, Satanism, etc.). Christians parents will then cry FOUL but the SCOTUS opened up this Pandora’s Box.
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Paul Edward Nunis
They've already been filed, and the USSC prempted them by claiming that the 5th and 14th amendments only apply to the traditional popular moral/religious views of the 16 - 1700s.
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Tod Steinbauer
In my town in Minnesota we have many different religions and I have been to the county meetings on this subject. Their ruling is that Teachers, Staff and Coaches are not allowed to lead prayers but the kids can and if other children do not follow the religion of that prayer they are advised to leave the area and return after the payer has been completed. We have a large population of Muslims in our state and as you already know the Christians and the Muslims don't seem to get along this is also true of our Christians and our Pagan's. the one and only time that I viewed a prayer said on the field it was completely inclusive of all the main religions in our area. It almost bring a tear to eyes that even though the Adults are so set in their ways that they can not see past their religion their children did.
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Ricardo Gonzales
The court ruled appropriately. The 'What ifs' that the author presented were pure speculation or their own fear? I for one, when someone tells me to tone it down on my beliefs, I go into full afterburner mode and push no less than they did to me. I do respect other religions as long as they don't push their beliefs on my then it's pushback that occurs. As I heard many times, a lot of people don't want trouble, but what they really don't want is confrontation. I confront when confronted.
Tit for Tat? However I am frustrated with people who cliam one thing, i.e. being Christian and doing another Athiest activities. The School System already stated publicly that they do not support any religion and that the actions of their own people are capable of pushing them that way? Weak School Board and Administration (Note: never the mention of a Leader) The Coach did it for himself and the School went into 'Fear Mode' and pushed, pushed then fired. They definitley failed to consult their own legal counsel and went Woke. If the players want to participate, then Great, if not Great. It's not our place to judge if they do or do not. The School Admin decided to judge then fire. They, as the Bible stated, will be judged with the same tenants as they judge. They forget who owns the priviledge of judging. It's not Man...
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Paul Edward Nunis
How exactly is that photograph, praying alone in private?
How is ruling based on the lie that there was no such photo or video, and that the students and parents who objected simply don't exist, justice? What exactly is acting 'appropriately' about bearing false witness in defiance of the Commandments?.
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David Bartlett
I would not be inclined to ban anyone from praying in any circumstance that does not disrupt the activity it is done in conjunction with. But, there needs to be rules in place to protect dissenters. Some of my ancestors were Sephardic Jews who were forced to convert to Christianity or face death. Granted that is a rather extreme example of peer pressure but I think it makes my point. It is one thing for an individual to pray. It is quite another for an authority figure employed by the government to lead that prayer. I have not read the brief nor the text of the decision so I won't comment on what led to the decision. Courts often decide on an aspect of an issue that implies they are taking a blanket position on that issue when they are not. But if the court's agenda is to bring prayer back into public school classrooms as an activity led by faculty then that is completely wrong and contrary to the first amendment. I am old enough to remember when we were led in the Lord's Prayer in a public school. Out of 25 students in my first grade class, 18 were Protestants, 6 were Roman Catholics and one was Jew. The teacher was Protestant so she used the Protestant form. We six Roman Catholics were admonished for saying the prayer incorrectly and my mother demanded the principal not discipline us for not using the Protestant form. The Jewish boy wanted an A in citizenship so he recited the Protestant form which was contrary to his religious belief. His parents pulled him out of school in October after the principal and teacher refused to budge. Then around Thanksgiving (ironically) it stopped altogether. An announcement from the principal stated that Satan had won and that God is no longer allowed in school. I later found out they were about four years late and had been illegally leading students in prayer all that time. That was 1966. That was also in "liberal" Massachusetts.
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Pastor George Day
David Bartlett,
While I am willing to accept what you share, I have to point out two factual errors as it pertains to religious beliefs.
The Lord's prayer is NOT AT ALL contrary to Judaism. On the opposite side, it is a gist of the Amidah prayer. This is the heart of Jewish worship and all Jews either pray the Amidah in full, or simply make up a gist of it in their own words. In short, Yeshua did NOT invent a new prayer. He pointed us to the goodness of the Amidah, the heart of worship.
Thanksgiving is the Christian version of Sukkot. The Pilgrim Fathers adopted this model in reference to the biblical journey into the Promised Land. All other Christian feasts are also parallel to Jewish appointed times (Easter = Passover; Pentecost = Shavuot). The only Christian primary feast a Jew would not accept is Christmas, because Christmas has no reference to our appointed times. This was originally a pagan feast, and Yeshua was born during Sukkot, probably in 6 BCE. Every major event in Yeshua's life has happened, and will happen, in relation to the appointed times. For example: Yeshua died on Passover and rose again on the feast of first fruits; he sent out the Spirit (to imprint the Law in our hearts) in Shavuot, the giving of the Law on Sinai.
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Glenn Alan Emery
Matthew 6: 5-6
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Michael Burton
The adoption of the First Amendment, as it was with all the first 10, was a reaction to the practices of the governement of Great Britian from whom, the newly founded United States was separating. As far as religion went, the Brits under Henry VIII, had broken away form the Papacy and Henry was declared to be the "Defender of the Faith" a title still borne by his successors.That "faith" was the present Anglican Church or Church of England. Subsquent to Henry's departure, which allowed him to marry one of his many wives, warfare broke out over religious beliefs mostly between Catholics (those adhereing to the Pope) and the "Protestants" (those rejecting the Papacy). This was on the heels of Martin Luther's break with Rome. The founders, for the most part were Deists and wanted to insure that such nonsense didn't break out inthe newly founded nation--remember some of the colonies were established by religious sects. The Federalist which are a series of essays written by the founding proponents of the 1789 Constitution are curiously silent on the matter of religion. The Founders were smart enough to avoid the question other than to say that the State should not establish one. The problem is that most established religions who find it necessary to incorporated themselves with a heirarcy, also will require adherance to the tenents they set forth and will evanglize all other to that way of thinking
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Jay Hager Michaels
People rejected Jesus over 2000 years ago and reject him now more than ever, thus solidifying the absolute truth of what he came to say and do in the first place and making the bible, old and new testament, even more true.........
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Lionheart
And the reason he’s rejected more than ever, Jay, is that there is very little evidence he ever existed. It’s possible he did, but those stories/tales written in that book is all you have.
Please explain how anecdotal stories, written by people who never met him, makes those stories even more true? I await your reply, with baited breath.
🦁❤️
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flugo
'lyin' fart': bated, not baited, breath
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Have you read 'A Case for God'?
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Ian James Koval
Praise God!!! That he continues to show and prove that he is with us he tells us to cast our burdens onto him and have faith 🙏that he will provide and this is just another reminder that if you have faith in God he won't desert you in your time of crisis!!! God does work in mysterious ways 🙏🙌
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Rev Ned
Just wait until a Muslim coach takes his prayer rug to the 50 yard line.
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Peter Senderowitz
We have never had a true seperation of Church and State in this country, just freedom of worship. Religious bodies receive tax breaks, sometimes use of school buses, etc., which the same as the State ( with our tax money ) supporting religious. Any person with some sort of authority does have a possible coercive power either directly or indirectly over his/ her "consituency". Thus, I believe the person in question should have prayed away from the others or quite clearly have issued a disclaimer allowing non- prayers to not feel obliged to pray. Let each person pray or not as they please but do not stick your hand in my pocket to support your religious faith or lifestyle. Amen.
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Lady Celynia
The Establishment Clause does not separate Church from state. It only prevents the US Government from forming a state religion.
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Paul Edward Nunis
That isn't what it says, or means.
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Daniel Gray
seems there are over 60 SCOTUS cases in the last 50 years that say different.
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Joseph Terry Papillion
Doing the will of God is never going to be a bad thing. Do the will of selfish and insecure people ... against God, and our entire universe is suddenly unsafe.
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Lady Celynia
Question, how do you know (or presume) to know what God wants done?
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Pastor George Day
Lady Celynia,
Before answering that question, I would ask you: do you have a personal intimate relationship with God?
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Lionheart
Yes, I agree with what Lady Celynia says. Perhaps you can be the first person on earth to demonstrably prove how you know your god is real, and exists, being as your god doesn’t seem able to do it, let’s hope you can do it for him.
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Have you read Portuguese newspapers shortly dated post 13 October 1917?
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Brian Bishop Wood
Christians. Look up what Jesus said about public prayer. Matthew 6: 5-8
“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.”
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Lady Celynia
Yup, secular government, secular workplace, secular shopping. Prayer of the individual's choice in private or in place established for prayer.
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Thomas J Kasprik
Ahhhh yes the Invisible Man in the Sky, we must please him even if it means forcing everyone into compliance with our interpretation of scripture
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Pastor George Day
Thomas J Kasprik,
They were reciting Hail Mary. So, it must be the invisible woman you are referring to. Invisible she is indeed, but not less real for that. How many things do you not see that are real?
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Michael Barton
This is good. Kids without Dad's might actually find God!
There isn't a separation of Religion & State, it's only a separation of Laws that benefit one over the other.
Everyone should be able to pray to whatever God they have, wherever they want.
That's America.
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EC
Hail Satan!
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Lady Celynia
Do you do this just to be provocative?
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Pastor George Day
Lady Celynia,
Yes, they do. Better to ignore them!
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Carolyn Moore
I Totally agree that's what's wrong God has been reduced to just about non existences anyone can pray where ever they want field or no if others decide to come join in thats them he did not stop the stadium program and say let us Pray . We have much bigger problems going on getting these guns out of the hands of our children some form of wholesome should be the comeback pray to the God of your understanding as long as one not committing evil deeds. Yes LGBT should be reversed that's why this world is mixed up anything goes if they want to be together fine but how do they rate the change of law to accomodate their circumstances BUT A WOMAN CAN'T MAKE A DECISION OVER HER GOD GIVEN BODY AMERICA DIDN'T GIVE LIFE HOW CAN THEY MAKE A DECISION TO TELL WOMAN THEY HAVE TO KEEP A RAPIST, MURDERER, SOCIALPATH, INCEST, BABY ETC. WE NEED TO RETHINK THE WAY WE VOTE ITS CLEAR THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER AT THIS TIME BECAUSE OF A SET AGENDA WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PEOPLE IT POWER AND CONTROL. A CHANGE HAS TO COME THE ELITE IS NO LONGER EXCEMPT IF YOU THINK SO SADLY MISTAKEN WE NEED TO CUT THE POLITICAL SHANANACANS OUT WE ARE NOT STUPID YOU JUST GOT BOLD ENOUGH TO DO IT IN OUR FACE WITH NO COURSE OF RIGHIOUSNESS.
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Ricardo Gonzales
So Carolyn, you advocate killing another person is ok. By your yelling that is what I see. Yes it's your body, but then YOU decided to pro-create another person and decide that it's ok to kill that person out of convenience? Back in the day they called that Whoring by Abortion. Now you did scream three instances where abortion would be acceptable, Rape, Incest or Medical (limited to saving the life of the Mother). Outside of that, no. The SCOTUS overturn was correct and followed the Constitution. I wonder why the Pro Abortionists never pushed to get that into the Constitution? Fear? Lack of Rule of Law or Precidence as Roe did followed by Casey which refered only back to Roe? If you studied history, Abraham Lincoln worte the Proclomation Emancipation Proclomation, but pushed hard to get the 13th Amendment passed because he KNEW the Proclomation was not Constitutional. So why did the Democrats never push for the Amendment? I wonder...
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Pastor George Day
Ricardo Gonzales,
So, for rape or incest, would you punish the child for the crime of the father?
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Pastor George Day
Carolyn Moore,
Why would you punish a child for the crimes of their father?
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Ronald Joseph Dent
Fear or Love? What should be feared of a person praying to God? I pray often. Prayer is my way to express gratitude and seek guidance. I do not fear anyone praying. There does appear to be many denominational differences within each religion. My relationship to the Creator of all things in heaven, earth and beyond my comprehension is far beyond any denomination or persons critique. In religious worship a congregational prayer may be led by clergy or layperson. At a civic event a group prayer may be led by a person. Invocation or benediction are moments of prayer. The separation of church and state prohibit State directed and mandated prayer. My prayer life is mine and is not subject to directed or mandated prayer. I do not fear.
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Amy M. Weber
It is my belief that the Supreme Court made the right decision. Schools in the last decade or so have made accommodations for those of the Muslim faith to be able to attend their prayer. Schools have made accommodations for other faiths. It just seems that schools around the country have drawn the line with Christianity. I ask why only Christians? If other faiths are embraced, then so to should the Christian faith be so embraced. With this ruling, Christians can now be embraced and not held to a different standard.
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Lady Celynia
Actually, Christian groups have been able to pray at schools in private "club"-like settings since the late 80s/early 90s.
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Pastor George Day
For goodness sake!
They are JUST praying!
What a big deal!!
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Paul Edward Nunis
The Court has made it very clear that they are only protecting the 'traditional popular beliefs' of the 1700s.
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Rev. T
This court of fools has set the stage for churches to start fighting over who has dibs on the 50 yard line. "Sunday! See the Baptists versus the Evangelicals as they shoot it out for God's approval!" "Come for the prayer, stay for the blood!" "King James Bible and 12 gauge shotgun Door Prize!"
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JPrime
He’s a hypocrite. Him and any other “pray in public because I can” christian. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. I would be VERY uncomfortable if I witnessed this at my kid’s high school. I would be VERY vocal about it as well. And his own book says NOT to do this: Matthew 6:6. Just because one CAN does not mean one SHOULD.
(Side note: I am NOT American, so dont @ me. I’m commenting as someone on the outside looking in.)
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Carolyn Senne
“When you pray, don’t be like hypocrites. They love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners so that people will see them. I assure you, that’s the only reward they’ll get. But when you pray, go to your room, shut the door, and pray to your Father who is present in that secret place. Your Father who sees what you do in secret will reward you. Matthew 6:5-6 CEB https://bible.com/bible/37/mat.6.5-6.CEB
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Carolyn Senne
This coach was just trying to get attention. If you need to "pray"in public to show the world what a good Christian you are then you have already lost the point. God tells us to pray in private and not to make a big show of it.
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John Stolworthy
Matthew 6:5-6 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
Whatever happened to separation of church and state?The world won't ever be a paradise again.
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Lady Celynia
The separation of church and state has never existed in the US. What we have is the Establishment Clause that says the federal government cannot establish a theocracy (state/federal religion).
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Paul Edward Nunis
That isn't what it says. Just because words start with the same letters, doesn't make them interchangeable.
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Chris
I would bet money if the coach wanted to bring a prayer rug onto the field the SCQTUS would have banned it immediately. It's not freedom of religion when the federal government supports one religion but not others. That's a violation of the First Amendment. This court has shown themselves to not be impartial or care about law.
Plus, anyone who has played school sportsball knows just because the coach says it's not required doesn't mean it's not required. If you don't participate you may be cut from the team, face repercussions from your team mates, any manner of things. He may not "force" anyone to participate but if you don't you will suffer for it.
Not to mention Jesus denounced all these hypocrites who make such a public spectacle of prayer. It shows the AmeriKKKan "Christian" church has nothing to do with Jesus
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John P Maher
S C O T U S --- S T U P ID COURT of U S A !!! MIND YOUR Fn HOUSE or JOIN ANOTHER CIRCUS !
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Nicholas J Page
What's wrong with praying to God.As long as it doesn't interfere with work,rest,or play And it is not forced on to any believer.Carry on.
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John Condron
The point, Nicholas, is "Which god?" The Christian god, or one of the other 10,000 gods men have invented over the centuries. I suppose we will have to wait and see whether the supremes will be equally accepting of school officials praying to other gods.
Also, the allegation from some of the players is that they did, in fact, feel pressured to participate in the public prayer. Anyone who has ever been part of a team sport knows how easily that can happen.
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Giovanni T.Coleman
With all the deaths and crime in our country, I don't see why anyone would have a problem with prayer. It can only help you. It sure won't hurt you. You will never please everyone regardless. We need to embrace each other in love.
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Joy
You are absolutely correct. We do need to embrace each other in love. Not force beliefs down on others. Would you have an issue with a Muslim offering a prayer to Allah? Or a Witch offering prayer to Odin or Morrigan? If you don't, fantastic. But if you do have a problem with that, try searching your heart for that love you speak of to embrace each other.
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Canadian Yankee
Sooner or later the coach will be of a faith other than Christian and I am interested to see how the Christian community responds when this happens.
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NLilly
Thank You JESUS! ♥ Well Done SCOTUS! XOXO GOD SAVE AMERICA! IN JESUS Loving Name I Pray! ♥ ♥
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Maximillian Martin
You're so delusional!!!!
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NLilly
Smiling. When I joined ULC Monastery, I had one goal in mind; and I have accomplished that goal with ULC Monastery's help. Again, Thank You ULC Monastery! XO // 07.06.2022
Also, when I comment on a Blog, I'm doing just that directly, as a Respectable, GOD Fearing Minister. I don't have time for 'others' attacking me, SEEKING attention from me. FOR WHAT?!!!
I can care less how you feel about me. It's people like you heathens, that make this world a miserable place to inhabit. But! We Decent Human Beings Do Have A Right To Be Here! AMEN JESUS! ♥ ♥ HALLELUYAH!!!
NOW! If I don't bother you, I would appreciate it if you would show me the same amount of Respect! I don't care what you do, how you live, who you think you are, & what you exalt! I'm just NOT INTERESTED! So STOP being a Nagger just to get my attention; and make your statement like a Decent Person to the Blog! If you have any Decency within yourselves!
My Goodness! How Terribly SAD some people are! I thought this was a very nice place to be in. I'm not putting up with this unnecessary Foolishness!
I Love My Life! Thank You JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH! I LOVE YOU ALWAYS AND FOR EVER MORE! YOU ARE NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH! AND I'M EXTREMELY HAPPY TO BE A CHOSEN PART OF YOUR GRAND SALVATION IN THE EARTH! MWAAH! ♥ ♥ ♥ XOXOXO. :). AMEN LORD JESUS! HOW GREAT THOU ARE! 24/7! ♥ ♥ ♥ HAAAAALLEEELUUUYAAAAHHH!♥♥
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John Kuehl
Who you callin ‘ a Nagger ?!!!
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Anisahoni
Jesus was a Jew as were his parents and ancestors. If you truly want to be close to your King, Lord and & Savior, convert to Judaism. You claim to be unconcerned what others think of you and want respect, yet you call those who do not agree with your theology "heathens." What do you mean by "Nagger"? Why are you shouting? Such love.
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NLilly
:/ Revelation 2:9
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” //
You understand the WORD Right? I don't have to convert to something I already AM! But you wouldn't understand that because YOU had to convert huh?
What do you & the person above you possibly think I meant by Nagger? When heathens speak, we know who/what they are. Just Stay In Your Lane!
I use Caps to place Powerful Emphasis on Words I speak. Why do I need to apologize to the 'weak in heart', in mind, and in hearing?
Want Respect? All I did was comment on a Blog! And I have to be crucified for that? I have NEVER Jumped on anyone for speaking differently than me. I am Respecting Everyone Here! Until they stepped foot in my comment. If you can't take it? Don't dish it!
Now Go Mind Your Own Business And Stop Trying To Be Seen & Heard, Commenting On My Thread! Good Grief Girl! Shoo!
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Anisahoni
OMG, the embodiment of a "good Christo Fascist"
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Ohrin-Greipp,
I am a Messianic Jew. Yeshua was a Jew, but he built the New Temple, the Church, to include Gentiles.
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JaZe
Did JC play sports? The Bible doesnt say anything about it? If your christian team is playing against a muslim/buddhist/watever team how many people would be ok with them saying prayers on the field? They would probably booo them.
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John Kuehl
I think the most humorous part about the whole thing is how for 60 minutes the coach probably prays to have his team beat the brains in of the other team , just to pray for forgiveness afterwards !
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EC
@INLilly: agree. Well done SCOTUS! This ruling is the sharpest of a double-edged sword. As a Satanist, I welcome the new opportunity to practice where my subordinates will feel the implicit necessity of joining in to earn my favor.
Hail Satan!
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Clay Serenbetz
I am concerned with the potential for the Christian prayers becoming implicitly coercive. The coach was welcome to say a prayer in private at any time before or after the game. Many coaches probably do day silent prayers in a close game near the final buzzer. Players could pray to their God silently too. Such prayer is not implicitly compulsive. This decision was unnecessary and implicitly forces prayer on others.
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Cheryl Pettijohn
When a person of authority asks others if they want to pray, and they have control over your play time and position on the team, very few students will say no. Just as when a person of authority coerces sex from a subordinate. Consent cannot be accepted in either situation.
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Alexander Arends
Good for the Supreme Court! Let' face it, this coach is not imposing on anyone. The next thing someone will make an issue of is a coach (or players) raising hands in the air, as if thanking God, or folding hands, as in prayer, or doing the sign of the cross, or kneeling and kissing the ground. If someone does not like that, or feels offended by it, suck it up.
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John Condron
... or kneels in protest during the national anthem!
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Paul Edward Nunis
Then why did they base their ruling on the blatant lie that the above picture (and the complaints by parents and students of coercive influence) simply didn't exist?
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Daniel Gray
And he can. He did not force any of his players to come to him or pray with him, they admitted they went to him of their own free will. The school knew they would lose this case and they did, and now they MUST make him whole or pay him for all the time he was not working including pay raises and benefits...and if he would have received tenure during that time, the school will be required to grant him tenure meaning they cant fire him.
And sorry John, but that is NOT what the 1st says. All it says is that neither Congress nor a state or local government can make a law violating a persons religion or the fair practice thereof. Take a guess of how many companies were sued and lost because of an employee listening to a religious radio station on their desk while working and the company forced them and only them to stop. Its happened more times then you want to imagine and each and every time the company lost. SCOTUS is doing exactly what the Constitution said it MUST do. You dont like it, then thats just too bad. the law does not revolve around your feelings.
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John Condron
Actually, Daniel, the 1st amendment reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
You have used some of the words in the 1st amendement, but you have (deliberately?) mixed them up. The exact wording used to make a difference, though that does not seem to be as true for the current SCOTUS.
Oh... and from what I have seen of your posts, you are the last person who should be calling anyone "stupid."
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Daniel Gray
Actually I stated fact when the SCOTUS ruled against this myth of separation of church and state in the Newdow cases, and in the Mass school that applied for a grant to help their kids with matting on the playground, and now this. What part of this not being in the Constitution do you seemingly not understand?
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Nathaniel Robert Hunt
And my Pagan church has started applying to get tax money since there is no separation
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Daniel Gray
Go right ahead, but you had better make sure that the money you are requesting is going specifically for the church and not some half baked ideas that some may want to use to prove a point in their opinion
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Pastor George Day
Nathaniel Robert Hunt,
If it's pagan, why do you call it church??
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Nathaniel Robert Hunt
First off because we are a chartered congregation of the real ULC of Modest , in good standing. Incorporated in the state of Arkansas as a church. None of the ULC's except the Florida one are Christian churches , they are churches that welcome all religions and Gods. Second the IRS calls all places of worship "churches" on the paperwork to show that all religions get the same treatment under the first amendment
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EC
Separation of church and state is not a "myth." It's a cheap shortcut wording to the quoted line above: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" (because complex sentences are hard for many people to digest).
So I guess, in a way, you're right Daniel. As long as congress can make no laws establishing a religion, the SCOTUS is still fee to reinterpret them to that end.
Touché evangelicals, I guess you win this round. But, the pendulum in this pit swings both ways and your time is short... The paroxysm of these latest SCOTUS rulings is akin to the howl of a dying animal.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but under Article 3 of the Constitution at no time or place does it give the SCOTUS the right to interpret anything. And if anyone thinks it does then name me the section of Article 3 confirming that.
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Paul Edward Nunis
'Establishment', and 'establishing' are not the same thing.
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Paul Edward Nunis
The Newdow ruling had nothing to do with with the Court striking down separation of Church and State. The only issue was whether a non-custodial parent could invoke their specific religious doctrine on behalf of a 'friend'. Nice false witness there...
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but it did, if you had bothered to read the case, and you clearly didnt; then you would know that newdow SPECIFICALLY stated in his case that this was a violation of the myth of Separation of Church and state. All you need do is go to the SCOTUS archives and educate yourself.
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Paul Edward Nunis
Again, that may be the case on your planet. Here on Earth, the Newdow ruling only dealt with a non-custodial party demanding that a government school impose his particular doctrine on a minor 'friend'. Interesting place you imagine though, where according to your posts, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and U.S. Grant were registered Democrats. Enjoy.
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Daniel Gray
No thats the case on this planet and you can see this in the SCOTUS archives if you bothered to look. But then again I dont guess you can come down from your ivory tower or back to reality to take the time to look something up that will destroy your point, whatever that actually may be.
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Daniel Gray
um sorry not one of them were Democrats as you can see by simply reading their papers.
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Paul Edward Nunis
You exact post was that 'all' of them (as slave owners), were Democrats. Your words... nobody is buying all those false witness flipflops.
They aren't clever, they aren't honest, and per the 10 Commandments, they are spitting on the Word of God (which anyone who actually believed in Him would be terrified to do). Time's up, goodbye. -
Daniel Gray
Nope sorry I never said anything about all of them being democrats, nice lie there but you can see in the post above you where I specifically stated that I never said this. And since I have been through this whole thread and not once in my posts have I ever made that claim, one has to wonder why you need to lie.
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Krystina S.
I'm sure voodoo ritual prayer would be just as appropriate, according to the Supreme Idiots? LOL. The Supreme Idiots are violating Constitutional norms in every new, heinous ruling.
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Rev. B
I can't wait until someone sacrifices a chicken on the field.
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Lady Celynia
Reductio Ad Absurdium
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Daniel Gray
Dont be stupid. If you are intentionally doing this just to tick people off then you need to stop. But since he is not and was not requiring any of his players to do this, then he is well within his rights to pray. Even the Court has stated that bible school is authorized on school property either before or after the school day ends, and yes there are satan and pagan worshiping clubs who meet there as well. And I dont see you complaining about how some, not all; muslums are demanding a prayer room in a school. You are just mad because they decided by what the Constitution says, not what you want it to say or mean. So may I suggest that you grow up and put on your big girl panties and deal with it? As I would make book that the SCOTUS is going to side with W Virginia against the EPA before this friday. And when they do it is going to make every alphabet soup group in DC restricted in making any new mandates without approval of these mandates by Congress, which is what the SCOTUS told the WH and the CDC in their CDC eviction mandate ruling. Or in laymens terms, the EPA could no longer make a mandate and expect you to follow it as law and that would go for ALL of the offices from the BATF right on down to the Education Director to the DOJ. Deal with it as its going to happen. And then read Article 1 Section 1 of the Constitution and try and figure out how you can complain about this.
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Rev John
Daniel you obviously never played football if you actually think there was no pressure on the kids to join in.
Just be happy when those of other faiths claim the same protections.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Johnny, but I was on the HS Football team and I only missed playing for Ohio State because of there already being more then enough people there. Please stop with your delusions
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Paul Edward Nunis
That isn't how college football works. It isn't 'first come, first served', it is 'the best one make the team'.
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Daniel Gray
This is EXACTLY how it works. and if you ever played football then you would know it.
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Paul Edward Nunis
I was referring to Planet Earth... obviously many things are different where you are.
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Daniel Gray
the only one who is not in this reality is clearly you
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John Peter Dugan
A person's 1st Amendment right does not give them the right to violate others right to not hear it. Not all people around are all Christian's. And SCOTUS as invalidated themselves by all of a sudden being political when they are not supposed be and are no longer impartial.
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Lionheart
If people want to talk to the floor (field), wall, or ceiling, I’m ok with that. I’m sorry for their delusion, but that’s ok.
🦁❤️
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CB Cuff
More of christian OCD.
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Would you say Mother Theresa was delusional?
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Michael Hinkle
That's Great Coach! We need more people like Coach to stand up what is "Right" for our country. God blessed the Coach for his strong beliefs. Seperation of Church and State (Governments) should never have happened in the first place. Read the Constitution, wriien in the bases of God iñ Trust.
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Joy
Perhaps if "Christians" would stop shoving their beliefs down other's throats we could have a balance to include all beliefs.
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Pastor George Day
Joy,
The USA was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
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Nathaniel Robert Hunt
No it wasn't as you can't ban people from having idols, eating pork and worshiping other Gods
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Pastor George Day
Nathaniel Robert Hunt,
Last time I checked, it was the Pilgrim Fathers.
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EC
Ummm... Michael Hinkle, after you read the constitution, read the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli which states: “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
You can't cherry pick history to your own ends, my friend. The constitution never established a christian nation and many other documents around the same time concur. The above example is a famous one of many.
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Lionheart
I wonder which god it is referring to 🤔. Mankind seems to have created so many deities from the times people worshipped the Sun not knowing where the hot red disc went to at night. Praying that it would show itself again, and come up the next day, seemed to work though, which is more than can be said for other gods that love to hide themselves away and never show up when needed, especially at children's cancer hospitals. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Lady Celynia
The words In God We Trust is nowhere in the Constitution of the US. Those words replaced E Pluribus Unum as the defacto motto on the Great Seal in the mid 20th century. In God We Trust was a political move by the government and signed into law for the paper currency by Eisenhower.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Separation of church and State? The xtians don’t seem to approve of Sharia Law in the Islamic States, however as long as what is being force fed aligns with their xtian delusions it’s fine.
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” John Adams
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding.” Thomas Jefferson
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Daniel Gray
Nice lie there guy, and you seemingly forgot to include this last paragraph and now I can see why you are trying to force your myth on the readers as it destroys you
"So much for your quotation of Calvin’s ‘mon dieu! jusqu’a quand’ in which, when addressed to the God of Jesus, and our God, I join you cordially, and await his time and will with more readiness than reluctance. may we meet there again, in Congress, with our antient Colleagues, and recieve with them the seal of approbation ‘Well done, good and faithful servants.’"
Th: Jefferson
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/98-01-02-3446
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Satan and Allah love the Supreme Court. It's no longer football that will be played by high school students on Friday's.... It's going to be the battle of religions.
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler,
Allah is God in Arabic. What does he have to do with Satan?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@ Pastor George Day You do realize we are talking about football. What does Satan fit it? Supreme Court has ruled football players can pray to Satan, God, and Allah.
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler,
Allah is God in Arabic.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Hail Satan is coming Praise Allah is coming to public schools near you.
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Rod Gesner
The Satanic church will ask for equal time.. Cause that's what they do. ;) Chearleding is basically a PAGAN BATTLE DANCE... ;)
But seriously folks my parents and I fought against intrusive religious education snuck in thru a rented trailer space.. Problem was theu demanded a note from my parents saying I should be let out of relig ed.. My parents refused saying it should be the opposite. Only kids with signed requests to attend should go.. I git stuck in the middle after 4 yrs episcopal private school.. I had had enough xstain indoctrination.. So when school had to let me out.. I got stuck doin busywork with my pissed off teacher cause she missed her god given free period... This intrusive xstain fascist agenda is anti american anti freedom and getting more anti equality every day.. Don't they get it?? The more cultures, races, religions, even divisions between xstain evangelic hater n christ like healers. They create the divisions that leave them a minority. Demanding paternalistic primitive control based on ancient myths n political LIES.. SORRY BUT WE ALL THE OTHER CITIZENS OF Earth are trying to Evolve and Heal.. Please find your Rapture.😇. and Float away.👼. ;)
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Rev Mark D
But a black pro football star can't do so while praying for racial justice without losing his career.
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flugo
'marked': Who's the black pro? Cite references to his praying on the field.
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Carla Jakola Smith
Kaepernick was ostracized for his silent protest as a Pro Football player. Tebow wasn’t chastised for his kneeling So if you’re WHITE and Christian it’s perfectly okay But don’t dare be a POC or different religious beliefs and take a knee for “whatever” Kaepernick never spoke, never left the sidelines, never endorsed 1 spiritual belief over another So yeah the pseudo White Kristians (Karens who found religion) can do whatever
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John Kuehl
BIG difference between praying and protesting ! You should learn the meanings of both words before lumping them together …
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Anisahoni
Typical disrespectful male.
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Anisahoni
Carla, you are so right. Please ignore that disrespectful man dismissing your words..
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Larry Mager
Does this mean that my pagan ministers can pray to the Goddess out loud in school???????? I'd bet my bottom dollar that this will only apply to so-called "Christians".
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Anisahoni
Yes, and I will bring my sage, burn it in my abalone shell while I fan the smoke with an eagle feather, along with my drum and rattle and sing our sacred prayers.
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Tammy Sue Peck
Praise The Lord, this is fantastic. Just like Roe v. Wade being overturned and going back to the States where it belonged to begin with. Praise the Almighty King Jesus!!!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
YES this is fantastic, thank you supreme court. This allows for Satanic prayers and worship in public schools. GoooOOO Satan!
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler,
If you like to go that way, go ahead. You know the end destination will be eternity in hell. That is a long time in the devil's company!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@ Pastor George Day I don’t know the end destination will be eternity in hell. And for that matter neither do you. Based on many of your posts how do you know you won’t be the one whose end destination will be an eternity in Hell? What makes you think you are better than me?
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler,
You are the one endorsing Satan worship... or have I missed something?
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Lionheart
King Jesus? Sooooo funny. Was he real then, or did you just read about that character in an old book?
🦁❤️
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Pastor George Day
Lionheart,
Are you familiar with CS Lewis? The historicity of Jesus cannot be disputed. Then you can argue he was either crazy or truly God. But you would have to look at the fact, again historic evidence.
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Joy
Yes!! Praise and thank you, Odin!
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EC
Hail Satan!
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Amy Varela
Your god is an immoral, immature, genocidal, misogynistic, racist monster, and a coach praying in a public school event is a violation of the 1st Amendment. This SC is an abomination to the rule of law. Keep your nonsensical religion in your home, your church or your head where it belongs.
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Anisahoni
Facts. Obviously you have read the book that Stephen King admitted he couldn't write a horror novel worse that than the historical bible. Richard Dawkins was right in his book, "God, The Most Unpleasant Character in All Fiction." If only those who profess to be Christians actually studied their book, they would be shocked at how evil Lord Jealous was/is.
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Pastor George Day
Catherine Ohrin-Greipp,
I am a theological scholar. Where exactly is my 'book' horrible?
Please don't be generic.
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Pastor George Day
Amy Varela,
WOW ! You sound so tolerant!
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Lady Celynia
It did not really have anything to do with Jesus. The Establishment Clause only says the federal government cannot establish a federal religion. We must learn what the Establishment Clause says, including the 2- and 3- and 4-letter words. Since the mid 80s/early 90s prayer in school and at school sponsored events has been allowed. It does not violate the establishment of a federal government (theocracy) religion.
What bothers me about the entire thing isn't so much that this guy can lead prayer, it is the players feel coerced to join in.
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Paul Edward Nunis
No matter how many times you bear that false witness, the verb form of 'establish' appears nowhere in the 1st Amendment. The exact meaning only applies to the legislature making laws that regard one establishment (noun) of religion over another.
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Pastor George Day
Lady Celynia,
That I can entirely accept, and I agree it should be made clear that they don't have to, and that would not bear consequences for them.
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Pastor George Day
Tammy Sue Peck,
Amen!
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Finally some common sense from a court ruling!