On Sunday, the Church of Saint Paul the Apostle in Manhattan debuted a new display titled “God is Trans: A Queer Spiritual Journey."
As expected, the controversial topic of the exhibit has drawn widespread outrage from members of the congregation, other religious groups, and the national media.
Is a New York City church actually arguing that God is trans?
The Queer Spiritual Journey
The exhibit contains three paintings by artist Adah Unachukwu that are intended to depict the faith experience of LGBTQ Christians.
“God is Trans maps the queer spiritual journey by three significant points,” reads the description of Unachukwu’s art. “Sacrifice, Identity, and Communion.”
Accompanying each of these points is a painting, each evoking Christian imagery like saints in stained glass or the crucifixion.
The ‘Sacrifice’ painting evokes “the need to shed an old life and personhood in order to be able to focus on your spiritual need. There is no devil, just past selves.'”
“Identity is the most impactful part of the exhibition,” reads the display. “What does holiness look like? What does your god look like? Are those two portrayals that can be merged?”
And Communion “rounds out the spiritual journey, by placing God and the mortal on the same plane to speak to one another. This part of the installation is about a spiritual home and the ways we can achieve this home in our everyday lives.”
Exhibiting Anger
Soon after its unveiling, the display was picked up by media outlets and quickly became the target of criticism.
The Archdiocese of New York, which oversees Church of Saint Paul the Apostle, is pleading complete ignorance on the controversial exhibit.
"We had no knowledge of it beforehand," a spokesperson for the Diocese stated. "If media reports are accurate, then we would have concerns. We are investigating and looking to speak with the pastor of the parish to get more information."
Amid the widespread outrage online, the congregation at the progressive church seems to have torn feelings about the exhibit.
Parishioners Speak Out
Despite the church's history of supporting LGBTQ rights and being one of the more gay friendly parishes in the city, some congregants weren't happy with the decision to feature "God is Trans."
“The church should not be promoting this,” said one church regular. “I understand there are transgender people. I pray for all people but enough is enough. It seems like they are trying to force the agenda on others.”
This individual also lamented that church leadership seemingly refused to comment on the exhibit. "You can’t put this out on the altar and then hide," they said. "That’s what gets the church in trouble."
However, other parishioners were more supportive. “I don’t understand the art, but this church is very liberal, which is why I love this church,” said one churchgoer. “The queer community has been accepted here for a long time now,” added another parishioner. “It’s wonderful having this here and a wonderful church.”
What is your reaction? Is drawing parallels between God and the transgender experience a sincere attempt at inclusion for the trans community? Or should the church have consulted its congregation before introducing an exhibit with an intentionally controversial title?
94 comments
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Pedro Pagan Jr
Well, let's look to the past to see the future. GOD (Jesus) created Male & Female, God distroyed humanity in the great Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah because of sexual immorality, God is born as Jesus son of man, Jesus calls God his Father. God (jesus) gave up his Godliness to become a servant of his Father God, the Holy Spirit says that the sexually immoral, Homosexuality will not enter heaven. The Holy Scriptures are clear in this matter. GOD is Love & gives all a chance to repentance but his anger is slow but eventually judgement will be given. GOD love the Devil to repent and eventually judgement in the lake of Fire with all that are in the list. Case closed. If the LGBT don't want to repent then Go make a LGBT Church of Apollo a known Homosexual God of Greek. Leave our God in Peace.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Such a fuss ... over nothing ... so I am sharing this: here we have Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio, to wit:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
RebTk
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
God does not want humanity to be hateful. Any church that respects all humankind, no matter the identity, is worth my respect. All of those who hold hate in their hearts, words, and actions will one day learn that they did not follow Matthew 25:40-45.
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Thomas A. Follis
NO
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Kenzie Rose Lipinski
If you believe G-d is omnipotent, then they were Trans, simple.
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ServantOfJudgement
God does not engage in folly. God=Jesus. Jesus is a flawless male.
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Leslie Renee Gray
Many years ago, in another life, I became a Christian minister. Eventually, I found myself unable to believe in a faith whose officials in the church were not practicing what they were preaching. I couldn’t reconcile my faith with the actions and demands of my congregation, so I left that path completely behind me. After years of soul searching, I came to realize that I had to face my own inner demons before I could truly fulfill my desire for spirituality in my life.
This article is of particular interest to me, since my journey of self discovery led me delve into the darkest regions of my mind and come face to face with greatest challenges. I had to accept myself before I could walk any spiritual path at all. Suffice it to say that I made the journey and came face to face with my greatest fears and lived to tell the tale.
In the fullness of time, I became a Priestess of the Craft. Yes I know, that’s a woman’s title. The greatest fear I had to face was that I am not a man at all. I am a transgender woman. As you can imagine, this article has a particular importance for me.
It’s disturbing to see so many people who don’t know what being transgender means engaging in wildly misinformed speculation about the lives of people like me. For the most part l media these days is bent on hyper sexualizing every aspect of the lives of transgender people and trans women in particular.
There’s been a great deal of lively discussion about god’s gender identity, as well as the original gender identities of humankind. The article above touched on it. I’m open to discussing the spiritual aspects of gender identity as well as what being transgender is like as long as y’all keep it respectful.
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Steven Frederick Gordon
From a medical perspective: parthenogenesis is very rare in primates but it does happen. So anyone coming from a virgin birth has 2 XXs, including JC.
But someone with 2xxs who has the misfortune to have congenital adrenal hyperplasia will have an excess of testosterone from adrenal glands doing their best to produce cortisol, which activity has been rendered difficult because of an enzyme defect. Such a person has clitoral enlargement to the point of appearing like a penis, and fused labia which look like an empty scrotum. (Really. Look up congenital adrenal hyperplasia.)
That person also suffers electrolyte problems.
If such were the case for the "son" of Mary, that person would be intersex but not trans.
There's a difference, but most people (whether oriented to conservatism or liberalism) don't want to hear facts. They hear what they want to hear.
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Rev. Zander
Really?? Catholic Church of St. Paul is really doing this? The Church has turned from GOD! What I was told by a Priest when I was a kid when I told him I do not believe in God, He told me to "fake it that is what the Priest do". Now I know that Priest was telling me the truth. All the Church wants is money and sheeps so they have a easy job.
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J E Del Rio
All of these groups are getting out of hand! the reality is, there is no right answer to ideology, there is only what is right to you.Why do LGBTQ people feel the need to push their ideological beliefs on you or matter fact any other groups including the government, there is only one reason! they want to destroy your individuality, All of these groups including the U S government want a Collectivist societies emphasise the needs, wants and goals of a group over the needs and desires of each individual as it is now thanks to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, I can't believe how many peoples do nothing but talk, What no one here has the guts or balls to stand up and just say No to them, I do it all the time because I'm not going to lose my individuality to a whole bunch of idiots.
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RevWood
why do you feel them saying "we are here and we are loved by God as much as you are, as is" as pushing their beliefs? If society just accepted them and did not look down on them there would be no need to make any declarations are art about it. There are people of faith literally wanting to exterminate them, yes, kill them and saying it out loud with no shame.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
Genesis 1:26-28 (first creation story of humans) God is a hermaphrodite. The "us" is both 'His' male and female sides speaking at the same time. And with some exceptions, most life on Earth created by God only comes in two genders: male and female. (Even transition surgery only offers two genders.) Genesis 6:19 (Noah, the Ark, and exactly what is to be brought aboard) "And of every living thing, of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind ... they shall be male and female." I think that's pretty clear. The only "trans" thing about God is which side is active when he interacts with us mere mortals.
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ServantOfJudgement
You can speculate on who God was talking to when he said 'let us make man in our image' but you'd be inaccurate to say he's a hemorphredite. It's a safer bet to speculate it was the trinity or godhead speaking to himself. Making man as a trinity lifeform with all the bells and whistles that comes with it. Having two genders does not give one the ability to have two simultaneous thoughts. It's believed our thoughts originate in the pineal gland or the 'seat of the soul', not our genitals although I've met plenty of people that might convince me otherwise.
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Rev. Jim Sutton
Then, again, Jesus constantly refers to God as "Father" throughout the New Testament. And wouldn't the "Son of God" know? Especially if Jesus was God's earthly embodiment/form? Then, again, since there's no biblical proof of Jesus' sexual interactions . . . . . .
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RevWood
Well lin a patiarchal world to refer to God as his divine mother would be portraying her as less powerful at the very least. What option did he realy have to portray power in a patriarchal society than male?
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ServantOfJudgement
God=Jesus. Jesus is male.
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Brianna Alara Amore
Gender as a concept only exists inside this dualistic plane known as 3-dimensional reality. God, as a being of infinite consciousness, exists outside of this 3D plane and as such, does not live within a dualistic reality nor possess a gender because God does not need to procreate the way us 3D creatures do. By breaking the binary thinking of humanity, we become closer to the Infinite Being known as God, who does not possess a gender and can manifest themselves in any form they wish to.
The idea that God is male or female is simply a personification that humans project onto God in order for our primitive minds to comprehend an Infinite Being that is literally incomprehensible. And for humans to judge others for not accepting the idea of a non-gendered deity is simply primitive superstition.
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ServantOfJudgement
Not exactly. If we're talking God of the bible, Jesus being of the trinity is a perfect human male. God said he's male.
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ServantOfJudgement
People have been creating gods since we've been around. It isn't exclusive to gods either. Anytime we join a group, start a new job, move to a new town or encounter anything we don't like, when able we set out to change what was there before we were there into something that fits our world view, usually creating conflict in the process. In this way, when a book claims to be authored the the original creator says things about our behavior we don't like, we set out to change it. Here we have this happening once again. The vocal lgbtqiamap+ community is merely doing what humans have always been doing, creating a god in their image. Not exactly sure why they don't just dust off some of the ancient gods that already fit their mantra like a glove and worship them.
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Craig Evan Bowie
As an Episcopalian, my image of God has always been the Trinity. I have held an image of God the Father, Creator, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit I have always attributed feminine aspects. Holy spirit the protector, the do'er sanctifying. I've always held that as a feminine aspect. So, by my definition that "Three in One" would have to be Non-Binary?
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
"God" or "Source" is an inorganic energy that is COMPLETELY genderless. The mere IDEA of gendering such an entity by humans makes those who say it irrelevant due to their insane ignorance.
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Lionheart
Did you read that somewhere, or are you quoting from, like, a visitation from your god? That would be cool if you did, as no one has yet proved any god is real.
🦁❤️
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Stella L. Wright
All religions, except Atheism, believe in the same God, but we worship Him in different ways. So, we should be tolerant of everyone's comments and beliefs.
God is so much more than we can understand; he is God and we are merely human. We are too small to even see how big He is.
God is neither male nor female. God is not heterosexual or homosexual or trans or otherwise LGBTQ . . . God is not a sexual being; humans are out of necessity to reproduce (even when, for some reason, reproduction can't happen). God doesn't make junk; He loves us all. Do not hate in return for His love.
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Joie Lamar
This has stirred conversation, and thinking, maybe even understanding or seeking to understand. And that makes for a much more spiritual human being than the sheep that can be herded towards hate so easily but conveniently forgive themselves because they’ve designed their bibles to justify their prejudices.
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JT of the plains
It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church has a lot of other issues which need to be addressed and repented (such as Priests abusing children) rather than doing some art exhibits.
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Mellanie Michaels
Christians need to practice what they preach. We are all included in Gods plan.
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Lionheart
Which god would that be? Just asking for a Hindu friend of mine.
🦁❤️
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Mellanie Michaels
God has no gender. He/she accepts people regardless of who they are. It's archaic thinking to say that God would do this or that. We are all children of God, no matter what our status is in life.
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John C. Myers
With only 2 genders then the answer is no Jesus is not trans
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Steven Frederick Gordon
One in 3000 births is intersex; such was recognized 2k years ago in the Talmud.
There are some people who are neither completely male nor completely female.
5% of humanity have cells that are discordant to that person's majority xx or xy. The most recent hypothesis that I read had to do with twin-twin cell transfer, remembering that 1 in 8 pregnancies starts as twins but only 1 in 80 finishes that way.
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David Arthur Lewis
If the Holy Bible is "the Word of God Eternal and Unchanging", why are there more than 2,000 different versions?
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Thomas P. Davis
People cannot make any money off of someone else's copyright for one reason. In order to make a new version and get your own copyright on it, you need to change it. I heard by 25% someone told me 15%. So, do you expect the current versions to be closer or further away from the original? Satan loves to undermine the genuine with his counterfeits.
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RevWood
most of the versions were created becfore copyright existed
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tuppennyblue
God created man in his own image... not the other way around!
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Lionheart
Actually, he didn’t do it on his own. It was almost in the form of a suggestion by him saying to some if his mates, possibly at the local heavenly pub called “Genesis”: “Let “us” make man in “our” image, after “our’ likeness.” (Gen 1:26)
That was nice of them wasn’t it? I’m actually thinking a woman was in on it. What do you think? It might have been her idea to give us men nipples, so that we were not left out, being as they were scheduled to have a pair. What do you think?
I bet when a man was first made, he laughed at the woman (typical male ego) when he pointed out what he had….down there. I bet he said, “Hey, look what I’ve got”, and I bet the woman, in her beautiful wisdom replied, “That’s ok, look what I’ve got, and with one of these I can have as many of those that I want.” 🤣
🦁❤️
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Warren Calvin Wall
Exactly! My thought is that Mr. God and Mrs. God worked it all out and Jesus, their son, was the prototype. Mrs. God is actually the Holy Ghost. I bet when they decided that they were sending Jesus to Earth, Mrs. God said "Oh, hell no! I'm not going through that mess again!" So she picked that clean, pretty little girl Mary to do it. I won't get into how they pulled it off.
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Asa William Sprague, II
Apparently God also made female in "His" own image.
"So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." Genesis 1:27 NIV
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha takes the heat away from the Maplethrope exhibit from some years ago
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Rev. MichaelRS
Obviously in America people can be whatever Faith they want and believe anything they want, but there's not an iota of scripture in the many centuries of theJudeo-Christian faiths that supports anything like this nonsense.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Right on.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
The paintings look nice. The church could show different paintings next week, whatever makes their parishioners happy.
Around 40 years ago, a bishop in St Mary's Cathedral, Sydney, referred to "god" as "she". Shocked newspapers asked for a Vatican ruling. The Vatican response "The Catholic Church has no doctrine whatsoever as to the gender of God." This is all a old news, of no importance whatsoever. Unless you like the paintings.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
If there were a supreme being what would they look like? Surely non-binary.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Interesting point. If a Supreme Being appeared as one gender only, it would not be "Supreme". Unless it needed to look some particular way for you to best experience it.
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Colleen McAllister
This whole thing about making God whatever we want Him to be is ridiculous. God is none of the above. God is God. Accept those who are different than us but don't bring God into this. He made each of us the way we are just accept that and move on.
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Lionheart
“And god said, let “us” make man in “our” image, after “our” likeness”.
Let’s suppose for one minute, that he’s real. He’s obviously talking to someone…right? And he’s suggesting we should be made in “their” image. I wonder how many their were that’s he’s talking to? 🤔
So….presumably, if we “were” made in their image, they had genitals….right?
We will definitely bring god into this, Colleen, because, he/they, have a lot to answer for. This is another fine mess he/they got us into, Ollie. 🤭
🦁❤️
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ServantOfJudgement
Technically a 'portion' of God has genitals. Jesus, being part of the trinity is fully human and a perfect one. Being a man, we can expect him to have male genitalia.
On the "created in God's image" bit, expand your thoughts beyond the physical form of mankind for the image God is speaking of. While we do indeed share the same chassis that Jesus has, we can expect the image of God to be far greater than the flesh we're obsessed with. Because the lgbtqia+ community identifies in a physical and sexual way, it's logical their interpretation of God's word would come from that angle(which is corrupted). It's a thougt rut they seem to have a hard time getting out of.
God has to answer to us for the state of his universe? LOL, thats funny! You go form a committee, I'll get the popcorn.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
God is god. That’s deep. It’s also the way YOU want him/her/it to be, huh?
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Rev Mark D
Well God sure ain't love, if you look at how humans have created him and used him, and seeing the way the world is, so he could use a bit of improvement. Who couldn't?
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Najah P Tamargo
Minister Najah Tamargo
Isn't a person's God supposed to be ".....all things to all people"? Their choice of presentation may have offended some, but didn't Jesus offend some as well?
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Michael Denny Clark
GOD communicates thru the Scriptures...and thru HIS HOLY.SPIRIT... HE is the GOD of the living... all souls belong to HIM... When we die our spirit body leaves our meat suit, and according to the Bible, we all go to paradise.... Paradise has a gulf, dividing the sad side from the joyful side, being in GODs presence... GOD defines sins that are an abomination to HIM... Which I believe he takes more seriously... But everything we do apart from faith = sin... GOD is not looking for perfection, we need to try daily to walk in HIS ways... when we fail, thanks to the LORD YESHUAs sacrifice on the cross, we can repent, and ask for help and strength to avoid sinning again... We are never supposed to insult GOD by calling sins "good, or acceptable, or OK.. " We are supposed to love people, show compassion... We shud love the sinners, show compassion, but NEVER love the sins... GOD is always watching, if we call evil things "good" and good things "evil", we will pay the price when our time in the meat suit is over...
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
michael clark explain this to me please: if your god is omniscient, omnipotent, knows that humans are fallible, will sin, knows that you will sin and already knows when and how you will die and whether not you go to heaven or earth then why, FFS does anyone have to pray to him, sing to him, worship him, please him, abide by him, fear him, love him, preach his word. you god already knows everything, you can fool god, you can't lie to him and from before you were born god already knew where you would spend eternity.
don't give me your BS about free will, god knows what you're going to do and where you're going. so my point is, worrying about god is just nonsense since your future was written at the same time the big bang occurred. maybe all you're god really wants you (and others) to do is leave everyone else alone - unless you're actually being helpful "to them" - live in peace and love thy neighbor. that's all anyone should do. everything that's piled on on top of what I just wrote is BS from humans that want, that need, to control others around them AND PROFIT FROM THEM.
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Thomas P. Davis
God is all those things that you describe. No one has to pray to Him, but just like us humans He would like to have a relationship with us. If you have a spouse, would that spouse enjoy that relationship with you if you never communicated with her? Yes, He gave us free will, not instincts such as animals have. The other option would be to make us robots, If you have a wife and children, would you enjoy having them programmed to say yes, dear, yes dad, we love you because they were programmed to say that? There is only one definition of sin. 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. and Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Not like the church that I grew up in that separated them into two groups. I will use Eve for the example of failing in one point, you are guilty of all. She Coveted something that was not meant for her. She disobeyed her heavenly father, she stole what was not hers to take, she elevated something in her life to make it an idol, she committed adultery but leaving her relationship with her God for another relationship with the foe, etc. etc. God is just allowing us humans to see what the result is, if we follow a life where we make our own rules. From what I see it is only getting worse and not better. Praise God that He is coming soon.
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RevWood
Not insticts like animals have WTH oh yeah i got them they have saved my life more than once and what do you think all that lust is about it is the instictual imperitive to sustain our species like every other animal.
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Thomas P. Davis
The difference is with free will, you can choose not to follow your lust, with instinct you have no choice. If it was an instinctual imperative to sustain the species, that would mean every human would be producing offspring like the animal kingdom. However, there are plenty of humans out there with free will, that have no desire to propagate.
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RevWood
Not insticts like animals have WTH oh yeah i got them they have saved my life more than once and what do you think all that lust is about it is the instictual imperitive to sustain our species like every other animal.
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Warren Calvin Wall
Well said Reverend. Thank you.
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Daniel-David
There is more than ONE definition of sin:
HEBREW:
Bad—wickedness—-to rebel—-iniquity—guilt—-to err
(And my favorite). To wander away.
New Testament:
Bad—evil—-godless—-guilt—-unrighteous—-lawless— To go astray—to fall away—ignorance—hypocrisy
Interesting, that only GUILT & BAD are the same.
But to: wander away, to go astray, to fall away, are the most difficult.
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Rev Mark D
Well this show is going to take two bags of popcorn and an extra bottle of mountain dew I think.
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Warren Calvin Wall
Right? I started a pot of coffee. ;)
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John D. Partin
Janis Carol Sommers, but you can't make God over into your own image without that being not God, anymore, and only your really imaginary friend and idolatry. Anything that you are putting above God is idolatry. Your and other people's not believing that anything is idolatry doesn't stop some things from still being idolatry, no matter what you think, because reality isn't defined by your disbelief in it.
You don't want to be defined by someone else as something other than what you know yourself to be and say about yourself and it is just respect for God and not doing to Him what you wouldn't want done to yourself not to define Him in any way that you like, either.
No real thing can be defined in any way that you like and God is real, as His synchronizing, calibrating, coordinating, and maintaining the universe, and creating it in the first place prove, since no unreal thing can have any influence on other things at all.
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Cindy L Edgar
Everybody needs to stop judging everybody has the right to live their own path and if you look back at the history people there's goddesses and gods and if you want to get real technical Mother Earth is the goddess stop judging everybody for who they are and who they want to be nobody has the right to judge anybody everybody is an individual person
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Robert Gagnon
The concept of god as an infinite power is so far beyond anything the human mind can conceive. After a hundred thousand years we can barley observe the intricacies through science of even the most basic creations we know as life. The image of an old guy that sits on a throne was created for the simple minded. For this to be true would mean he has a backside, eats gets tired and must rest. Instead of man saying God looks like us he came up with the angle that we were created in his image. Now that's pride speaking. The Roman Catholic church has maintained the magic and the spiritual existence of a power greater than us for a couple thousand years. But the simple minded once again cannot see beyond their physical reach. For this church to incorporate LGB members is an admirable instance of getting the word out as JC would. So God is an infinite being beyond our comprehension and Jesus is our physical link. So where does a small group of very confused people that can't accept who they are that lie to themselves and everybody else, get to insult God? They insult their own creation, therefore the creator. God is above and beyond any endeavor man may undertake. Obviously they have no respect or reverence for the God they pretend to embrace. This church should be cleared out from the top down and purged of all abominations. Make it a house of God again, not of the mentally challenged. Let LGB and straight folk worship properly with respect for God.
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Janis Carol Sommers
I am just shocked by the negativity and almost hateful beliefs and comments I am reading about God is Trans. So what? God is all people and things. Many Trans people are not the outrageous activists who are the attention grabbers who offend other Gay and Lesbians, as well as others. There could be a Trans person in your congregation and you don't even know who they are. The people who are activists are young, for the most part, and rude and no different than the other young people today who, in my opion, have no interest in hearing from anyone, or learning about things that do not agree with their opinions. Blame parenting.
The backlash against Transpeople is mostly about giving meds to young children, and Trans rights that are overwhelmingly rights they already have but refuse to believe. They are immature and look at others as the enemy. So, don't be the enemy. There are many, many fear based people who are pushing back on the overboard 'woke' agenda. But, we do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Trans people are God's people.
What I could see of the art installation was in no way offending to me. What I saw was something that being fought when I was in my 30 and 30s. Back then, God was never Black. As a Lesbian, I can go to a Lesbian led church on Sunday, or a Gay man led church, these days with both leaders being Out and not closeted.
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Rev. Kev
On the one hand, I get that the installation is art intended to convey a personal experience of being trans in relation to finding a spiritual home in the Church. A message that would most likely resonate with the trans members of the congregation.
On the other hand, I can see where this might be offensive to others. Especially since the display was placed in what appeared to be the area surrounding the altar. Which, for Catholics at least, is normally considered a sacred area since it is where the Eucharist is offered.
The title "God is Trans" can also be seen as a little much. I can understand why some might see it as 'forcing an agenda' on others by so labeling their God. The installation could have had other, equally suitable names without imposing a gender identity on the same God that others in the parish also worship. It's not like the Church has been going around with signs declaring God is heterosexual. Especially since God hasn't been recorded in the current canon as having any sort of physical act with anyone**.
All in all, I think this could have been handled better on both sides to keep everyone marginally happy. Because it seems the congregants don't have a problem with the LGBTQ contingent. I think they just feel this pushed things too far. I think that's fair. People generally react when things are too 'in your face'. I think that applies to even too much hetero stuff jammed in the face of people. Especially if they want to just go to church and sit and pray the rosary or worship in the sanctuary. Take a break from the physical world to focus on the spiritual. Leave the politics and bickering outside the doors for some peace.
**(Not even Mary -- in that case the Holy Spirit "came down to her" and she conceived. The Holy Spirit came upon the disciples at Pentecost and they spoke in tongues...so it's a supernatural thing and not specifically a getting pregnant thing. It's what they call a mystery)
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
'What is God?' and 'What is offense?' are good questions, but here they both just dance around the real issue, which is power.
Here, 'God' is synonymous with the universe. For those that can impose their God on others, they in effect define the universe, for it is THEIR image that IS God - not trans people, not brown or black people, not women, etc, which in turn defines who is the offended and who is the offender. THAT is the source of the 'offense', THAT is why these same people are so intensely interested in what is in everyone's pants, what they are doing in their bedrooms, how everybody else's children are being raised - because of that power, and the right to look down on and make demands of others.
It's the same thing with the 'Holy Spirit'. The definition of 'spirit' is 'vital animating principle, which makes the Holy Spirit the metaphysical essence of God - and used for the same purpose.
https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights
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Janis Carol Sommers
Should it have said, "God is, also, Trans" ? Would that have diffused the riled up.
We live such lack of Faith and believe in scarcity.
Example: If God is Trans, then what about me? I am not Trans and God is my image, too. Is there enough of God to go around? I don't think so, and I was here first, so God should not be Trans. It's already enough God is, also, Black, and, also, Gay, and, also, Lesbian, and, also, Bi-Sexual, and , also, Queer, and, also, the Questioning. I wonder, is God really able to be all people and thing?We are told to Trust in God. I do.
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Rev. Kev
Janis Carol Sommers,
Or......God is none of those things. God isn't a human. God isn't limited to human characteristics of race or gender. Representation isn't a thing when it comes to God. We aren't supposed to see ourselves in God because God is more than humanity as a whole. We are limited and faulted. God is not. I suppose that's why some people look up to God and hope to find transcendent meaning in God. Because we can't find it in humanity.
But I admit this is just my limited opinion based on my experiences, and the ideas and opinions of others before me.
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RevWood
How about the obvious in the "we are made in God's image", God is ENERGY and our SOULS were made in that energetic image, bodies are just places for souls to inhabit for a while. The soul is genderless, or all gendered,whichever way you want to look at it.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Rev Kev..”On the other hand, I can see where this might be offensive to others.”
Who gives a flip? As Stephen Fry said: It’s now very common to hear people say, “I’m rather offended by that”. As if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually nothing more than a whine. “I find that offensive”. It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. “I am offended by that.” Well, so f***ing what?
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Rev. Kev
Dr. Zerpersande,
I'm familiar with the quote. Same thing as with Hitchens on the same subject. But that's dealing with offense as a justification for actions. I'm simply saying that I can exercise some empathy to understand where they are coming from. People are emotional beings. Sometimes we feel offense about things. That's normal. But I didn't see in the article that they were using offense as some justification to the point where they demanded others agree with their offense and take action based on the mere offense.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You said “ But that's dealing with offense as a justification for actions”.
What makes you believe Hitchens was speaking to a special case with that quote? It’s certain that quote itself ‘offended’ a lot of people. To which Hitchens would have simply replied ‘So f***ing what?’
What we have here are delusional individuals being offended by other delusional individuals because they share slightly different delusions on the same imaginary topic.
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David Arthur Lewis
Christians are going to hate this. That's all Christians can do - Hate, Agitate, and Segregate. I see yet another schism resulting in a new denomination.
WHO WOULD JESUS HATE?
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David Bower
So far every comment I have seen here designates one place you all are running to at 100 mph.
A lake, a rather hot lake, its not at a resort either, but if I were you, I would be trying to find some SPF 9,000,000,000,000, you will all need it, no hate just amazement at how ignorant and complacement you all are.
If you guys aren't Christian then what are you doing here?????
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David Arthur Lewis
This is NOT a christian church. This is a universalist church, hence the name - UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH. Intolerant people should stay in their own lane.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
As I understand it, the ULC IS NOT an exclusively Christian organization.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
No it's not. I'm a witch & a. ULC minister.
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Angelic Realms
ULC seems exclusively hate Christians though. I'm also not rigid but the contempt is disgusting. This is just tearing down the church. None of them has to be Christian. They choose to be but then flout what it's about. It's cultural Marxism for sure.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
The ULC isn't a Christian organization.
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Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
And I'm a Muslim minister here at ULC.
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Pink Clover
So only Christians can be ministers? It might be that YOU are in the wrong place.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Ahhh, an attempt at Xtian humor based on religiously delusional beliefs. And STILL, as David Lewis pointed out, filled with hate.
(BTW…sunscreen filters UV rays to prevent burns. It does absolutely nothing to prevent contact burns. And according to your antiquated beliefs one is thrown INTO the lake, not forced to lie in a towel and sunbath next to it. Perhaps consideration WAS given to the sunbathing method of eternal torture.
I see that the lake has a temp of 9 trillion degrees. Do you happen to know how god accomplished this? That’s even higher than than the minimum temperatures for any matter to form in the early universe after he snapped his fingers and brought the universe into existence. (That’s why it’s called the Big Bang, from the god awful sound (pun intended but better than your attempt at humor) is fingers made with that snap.
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ServantOfJudgement
@davidBower This site is quite hostile to Christians, usually. It depends on how the Christian presents himself. You've got every possible world view here, which is primarily antichrist. There are even Christians attacking Christians depending on their flavor of God speak. You've got atheists quoting Bible verses more than I ever have and I'm a full throttle believer in Jesus. By th way atheists, when you quote the Bible you're actually quoting your lack of knowledge (ignorance), you never get the understanding, as the Bible says you won't. Anyway David, good luck to you, don't get too sucked into the arguments, use this place to learn about those that hate God but one day may love him.
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Lionheart
I wonder if the Christian god, or any god for that matter, has nipples, like all other male humans do? 🤭
🦁❤️
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Geoffrey C. Olive
And male genitalia? Why would a “male” god have or need these if it can create everything from nothing without the need for a female goddess?
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
...or a navel?
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David Arthur Lewis
God is not a person. God is spirit.
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Lionheart
Do you have any evidence to support your claim, David, or are you just getting that from a book? I also assume you are referring the deity that Christian’s like to assume is real….right? Just asking for a Hindu friend if mine.
🦁❤️
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David Richard Procter
My god is better than your god. He is a mirror of my image. He is the god that I want him to be. How about you?
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Janis Carol Sommers
Your God is as good as my God. She is my mirror image. She is the God I want her to be. How about you?
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David Richard Procter
You have a vivid imagination. That's all my god is. How about you?
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Joseph Knopick
What are you thinking?
There is no way this church searched the scriptures and prayed about this.
They should be condemned and cut from Communion.
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Janis Carol Sommers
there is no need to find this in the scriptures.
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David Arthur Lewis
Scripture is not God.
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Digging your own grave. God will not be mocked... Hey! When we gonna start calling the Devil a SHE!!??