A recent John Hopkins study links the legalization of gay marriage to a marked decreased in teen suicide rates. Researchers compared data from states that had legalized gay marriage before the 2015 Supreme Court decision to those in which it was still illegal. Their findings, which were released earlier this week, are significant. The study found a 7% reduction in teen suicide attempts in states where gay marriage was legal. Seven percent may not seem like a lot, but it amounts to 134,000 fewer suicide attempts.
LGBT Suicide Rates
The researchers say the study was inspired by the astronomical suicide rates among LGBT youth. According to existing data, an astonishing 29% of LGBT adolescents attempted suicide in the past year, compared to just 6% of heterosexual adolescents. Researchers were curious if statewide acceptance of gay marriage a barometer of tolerance toward the LGBT community would have any effect on suicide rates. As it turned out, they were right.
Root Cause of Suicide Drop
However, questions linger about correlation vs. causation. What was the actual impact of legalizing gay marriage? It seems unlikely that simply changing a law could result in such a dramatic drop in suicide. What is far more likely, the researchers acknowledge, is that legal gay marriage is just part of the equation. States which embraced same-sex marriage before it became the law of the land tend to be more accepting to LGBT people overall. Such states are home to more advocacy groups, awareness campaigns, and greater access to mental health support. They are also less inclined to oppose homosexuality based on religious principles, which leads to another important point.
Religious Kids at Greater Risk
Statistics show that LGBT teens from religious families suffer the most. While some religious denominations have become more accepting of the LGBT community, many are still fiercely opposed to such ideas. In households that villainize homosexuality, for example, gay teens are forced to hide their sexual identity frequently resulting in serious mental health issues. Those who do choose to come out as gay are often rejected by their families. Being forced out of the house and onto the street is not an uncommon experience. In fact, as many as 40% of homeless teens identify as LGBT. Perhaps it comes as no surprise that suicide attempts are most common among LGBT teens who experience high levels of family rejection.
Bullying a Factor
Bullying has also been identified as a major factor in teen suicide. Take the case of Billy Lucas, as just one example. Billy was a 15-year-old kid from Indiana who was relentlessly bullied by his peers for being gay. After being tormented for years and told to "kill himself" on numerous occasions, Billy finally gave in. In 2010, Billy hung himself in his grandmother's barn.
His death was widely publicized and kicked off a campaign to bring awareness to bullying of LGBT youth. From this campaign was born the "It Gets Better" project a successful non-profit group that has encouraged troubled youth to seek help instead of resorting to suicide.
What's Next?
The past decade has seen a massive shift in public opinion in favor of acceptance and equal rights for the LGBT community. Although the situation continues to improve, the high suicide rate among teens is startling evidence of a long uphill battle that is not over yet.
The John Hopkins study shows that changing the law can help people feel more accepted. We would be kidding ourselves, however, if we thought stopping there was sufficient. Addressing high suicide rates among the most vulnerable groups in society also requires a change in the way we think. It means teaching our children to accept people different from themselves for who they are: human beings.
338 comments
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Marsha
I was able to understand what you meant to convey. I appreciate your reply and compassion. I am doing further research about this ministry. I have always been a person who respects others and their beliefs. I have friends of many ethnic backgrounds, faiths and races. I do however, believe The Holy Bible to be the word of God. My life is based on my faith. I do not wish to force my beliefs on anyone. I still stand by my statement that rectal sex and promiscuous sex are aberrant acts that spread diseases. I am a medical person who has seen what HIV/ AIDS and STD's are doing to our society. I never condemned or judged anyone. I do believe that these lifestyles breed unhappiness, lack of fulfillment and yes, sometimes suicide. I pray for happiness, hope, love and for no one, ever to think suicide is the answer to life's problems. May happiness and peace be with you.
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Carol Amina
Marsha I am glad to hear there is still room for a Pagan/Non Christian such as myself and very glad to hear there is room for you as well! Its good dont you think for us to mix and mingle.... it promotes love and understanding. Tolerance and Peace.
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Carol Amina
I made a typo on the first part of my post..I meant "I was under the impression" Sorry...
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Carol Amina
Seems as if I had many typos and fir this I'm sorry...hope you are able to read around them and get my point.
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Marsha
No problem. I contacted the ULC Ministry and was informed this is a Christian Site as evidenced by the Cross of Christ displayed in their logo. All are welcome. Love, acceptance and understanding are their philosophy. No one is asked to marry anyone or do anything that goes against their beliefs. This is in keeping with my faith. Thank you. Peace be with you.
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Nix
Not to call Marsha out or to be rude but, Carol Amina, this is not or never was a Christian organization or site. They say very clearly in the second paragraph of the home page that "Our fundamental tasks are to promote freedom of religion and to "do that which is right" - core tenets that underscore everything we do. The ULC appeals to a worldwide audience through our online church services and our overarching belief that "we are all children of the same universe." It is true that most of the ministers are Christian, but this organization holds no religion over another. Call 206.285.1086, press 3 and they will gladly answer any question. All religious symbols are represented in their logo. All are welcome as part of positive spiritual enrichment. Enjoy! Your belief system are encouraged in this environment.
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Carol Amina
Oh Howie thank you so very much!
I was crying at first because I felt I had miss understood when I joined over 4 years ago and due to life being busy had not kept up very well. I would not / could not be in a church group that was mainly christian because I dont believe as they do. I was of the understanding that it was equally observant of all faiths thus there logo showing signs/ symbols of all.
No disrespect to Marsha at all I am just very relieved that there is room for all equally. As for most being Christian ok but I stand independent of any major religion and do not follow any book verbatim.
I wish everyone peace and blessings
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Marsha
Carol...... for the last time! I called a wrote to them...... all are accepted and appreciated. Most of the ministers on non- denominational Christians. There is room for everyone. That wasn't the problem. Howie was attacking The Holy Bible and blaming Christians for gay suicide. This is not true. I am getting off this site as I want nothing further to do with Christian bashing and blaming by people like Howie who try to force their sexual preference down my throat. I don't go around condemning non- Christian faiths. I have said this over and over. He has gone from claiming to be agnostic, atheist, to now saying he follows Christ. I truly believe he is confused and possibly ill. I don't want further interaction with him as I am afraid he may be unstable. Love and peace to all..... including Howie!
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Nix
There is no aligned religion here, it just happens that most ministers are Christian. I don't bash all Christians, I simply call out religious people that condemn and judge others. It just turns out that most if not all on this post that have condemned and judged, happen to identify as Christian. You can read the posts, but it may be a waste of your time. There is some negativity here. I attend Catholic church with my father for time to time, I appreciate his faith as well as that of others. My reason for posting was to defend the LGBT community from so called "Christians" that attack them and can't understand that the studies cited in this article are one of a positive nature whether time proves it to be true or not. You ask them simple questions and they seem to dodge the questions and any logic plainly be pointed out, and instead throw around bible passages to justify their disdain for anything different or challenging to their belief system. I would defend the LGBT community against any attack from anyone of another religion but no other person has identified as being of another religion on this post. No comment on my thoughts. There has never been an official way of believing within this organization as they state on their home page, all are welcome. But just as in life that doesn't mean ugliness and hypocrisy will not raise its ugly head. I've noticed that many believe there beliefs are superior but on the flip side, many are open and loving and wish peace for all. In closing I suggest to read some of minister John Pavlovitz's blogs. http://johnpavlovitz.com/ He is are very inspiring and he speaks very candidly about love for all. It may not be your thing but worth a read. I hope some of the nastiness doesn't turn you away. If I in any way added to that, then I sincerely apologize. I wish you continued peace and happiness! You seem to be very enlightened.
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Nix
Response to the post below. I specifically remember you stating that same sex marriage is an abhorrent lifestyle. Mr. Pavlovitz states very simply that no one in the LGBT community is an abomination. No one is a mistake. No one needs fixing. Read some of his other posts. He actually understands and very well preaches the words of Jesus. It was never my intent to offend you but my beliefs are mine to have, just as yours belong to you. My intent has always been that no one can claim they are Christian, a true follower of Christ if they condemn and judge, just as many on her have decide to do about same sex marriage. I haven't tried to make anyone believe as I, nor have I tried to change anyone's mind, but I have merely over and over, pointed out that neither you nor anyone else has the right to play God. Again I don't believe the bible is God's word. I'm sorry if that offends you, although I'm not sure why what I believe or say offends you. You shouldn't give me that power. I don't want it nor did I ask for it. Too many people look for things to be offended about these days. I again ask: the bible was written by who? By who? Man. Why would I believe is all as fundamental truth? Because it says so in the bible which was written by man? You get my point here? God have me the ability to search for truth and a mind to think critically so I am using the gifts given to me by my maker. No one has successfully ever been able to answer those questions, that's why I believe the way I do. I believe the bible has great recordings of a great man: Jesus. I think even if one doesn't believe in Him, he is still a very good role model, so what's the worst that could happen by following His lead. I personally do believe in Him and think my life is better for it. It's always worked for me. No one else has to believe what I believe. You say so called religions aren't being to be consistent with the bible's teachings. Do you not realize where you are? This is a site for all religions and spiritual belief systems. Not just bible readers. Are you trying to say your religion reigns supreme? You say many in the LGBT(you get the picture) community is so wrapped up in their own hate, yes some are just as some in the straight community. So what's your point?The scorn, ridicule, condemnation directed at the LGBT community has received from so much of the religious community is a major factor, just as Mr/ Pavlovitz says. You should really read more of his writings, maybe you could open your mind. Not my place to say, just a suggestion. You say rectal sex is unnatural. What is natural? Many sexual acts consenting adults do in the privacy of their are natural to them. Intercourse is supposed to be pleasurable, many people stray from missionary sex, that is natural to them. You said rectal sex spreads disease. Sometimes unprotected anal sex does spread disease but it's not an absolute. Vaginal sex, oral sex can spread disease. Skin to skin contact can spread disease. Saliva can cause disease. Coughing in close proximity to someone can cause disease. Lord have mercy you have two BA's and have worked in the medical community for 20 years, surely you realize this! Stand by it all you want, but please for the sake of your own educational background and experience, stand by all of it! I'm using basic logic here. And to address you transgender statements, sure it may be a good idea for children to wait until they are in their late teens to decide to live as they truly are, but who am I to speak for them or judge them? And I don't think you have to worry about a man that has transgendered into a female exposing their genitalia to you. I have never heard of a transgendered person showing their genitals to anyone in any bathroom. That is a grandstanding law made up to scare people. And believe me in the current social climate, many of the conservatives would have a field day with that. That's just a fear tactic many conservative have come up with to scare the sheeple. An openmind and a little logic goes a long way, I have learned.
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Marsha
HOWIE.....I NEVER SAID ABHORRENT!! I SAID RECTAL SEX IS AN ABERRANT ACT! You don't seem to understand basic English! If transgender can use a female restroom, what is to stop a rapist from cross dressing and accessing female restrooms? YOU ARE QUITE OBVIOUSLY UNEDUCATED AND PLAIN PIG HEADED IN YOUR VIEWS! No male will ever use the restroom where my female children, grandchildren, etc. are! We will fight back. Christians and women have rights too! STOP CONTACTING ME! YOU ARE BEYOND REASON OR HELP IN MY OPINION. Go talk with someone else! I am done with you and your uneducated and uninformed rants!!
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Nix
Yes obviously by the way I write, shows I'm clearly uneducated. You seem to be the one living in the bubble. If rectal sex is aberrant, then don't do it, sugar. No one cares what you do are is asking you to do it, but you have no right to judge what consenting adults do in their bedroom. A transgendered person is not a crossdresser. Talk about uneducated. Do you work at "Nowhereville Doctor's Clinic?" Crossdressers have been around for centuries, why would they start using the opposite sex bathroom just now? You responded on my post as you continue to do, so don't tell me to stop CONTACTING you. Contacting you, dear Jesus, help her! It's called a reply, what do you have a bell that goes off every time I respond?
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Marsha
NOW YOU ARE PRAYING " dear Jesus Help her?" You don't believe remember? You are ALL OVER THE PLACE! Very confused, unable to understand the difference from abhorrent vs. aberrant ...... thus uneducated. This is a Christian site as they told me that is why they use the "Cross of Christ" in their logo. They don't adhere to a specific denomination in the Christian faith. Go to an LGBTIQ site if you want like thinking individuals. You don't see me on those sites! Dr. Stevens stated he believes you are suffering from mental issues. We have said all there is to say!!!!! MOVE ON!!
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Nix
You have used both words. I never said I don't believe in Jesus, I said very plainly that is who I choose to follow but that I'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything about the higher power, energy, God. That's what the journey of life is all about. This is in no way a Christian site. I don't get where you get that, they say that nowhere. Call 206.285.1086 and listen to the options and they will tell you what number to press if you have any questions. They will clarify your misunderstanding. It sounds like you are putting Christianity about all other religions and belief systems again, Marsha.
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Marsha
Since you don't believe The Bible is God word, you are NOT A CHRISTIAN, Jew, or any other believer! You are beyond help from me. Using your own words..... if you aren't one how can you know? Move on. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME TO FURTHER CONTACT WITH ME. You are agnostic or atheist ( your words). Go get hep from your issues! A Christian site is NOT the place for you!
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Carol Amina
I am sorry I have been away from being able to read these posts for sometime. But this one caught my eye. This is not a "Christian" site or is it?
I became ordained through this sight because it was open, not Christian only as I understood one can preach, believe, and worship or not worship as they wish. I also joined because I believe that any two adults that wish to love each other and want to show that by marriage have the right to do so. I am not Christian, but have friends who are and have studied and at one time even practiced Christianity.
I know things have gotten so very heated regarding gay marriage, and the whole Transgender / Bathroom thing. I am really quite sick of the whole subject. Mostly because I feel it has brought the meanness and lack of respect in both sides.
I have a question I would like to ask. What would be wrong with those who are christian and agents gay marriage just not agreeing to do them? There are many of us who would gladly and be blessed for the chance. And what would be wrong with those of us who are for it being respectful to those who are not and just turn away from them. I guess I am asking why must we be cruel, ugly and mean?
If you believe in God and God is love then why is it this subject makes everyone so angry?
No one has the right to say what God will or wont do. The Bible is meaningful only if you believe it is the verbatim word of God. If you do not then it is just a book. I know that makes Christians very angry but I am not asking you to believe in my texts, or follow my practices. So why do I have to follow your rules? And if I dont then I am told I am lost, going to hell or unlovable?I am pretty sure that the USA is still a free country (unless trump gets his way) and until it stops being a place where it is lawful for us to practice any faith we want or not... cant we just be kind?
I try very hard to be respectful, kind and loving to people of all persuasions. I think if I want to show God to someone I need to do my best to show love. I don't agree with Marsha or many others who have been very aggressive about putting down those in the LGBT community and its supporters. However I refuse put her down or anyone else. I bet if we met and one of us was in trouble we would find a way to help. We dont need to agree on Religion, Politics, to get along do we? We are humans, flesh and blood. We breath the same air, bleed red and all need love.
I am not the most educated women. At age 60 I have raised 2 kids alone put myself through college and worked 25 years in the Mental Health field. I have worked for women and humans rights most of my life. I have always been on a spiritual journey. I have studied and even practiced for extended amounts of time Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism. I find that they have more in common in my eyes than in difference. One thing for sure there are people in all that take the teachings and act as if they have a right to push or punish others into there way. That's why I stopped the madness.
My religion is now Love, Respect and Kindness. I am quite sure I will get bashed for even putting my 2 cents in here. One reason I just stopped reading the posts a while back. The anger and hate just hurts to much.
That brings me back to my question when did the Universal Life Church become only Christian? If that is the case I have made a mistake and need to untie myself.Peace and Blessings to all.
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Marsha
Carol..... I have not meant to be mean, judging or against any faith! You seem like a reasonable person. Howie is not. He continues to contact myself and Dr. Stevens with rants and rhetoric. I am tired of explaining his misguided views of my original point. I am not AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE! I simply said that it is not fixing the problem with gay suicide! The Netherlands and Sweden have been accepting for much longer than here and suicide has not come down. I did say that as an RN/ HIV Counselor...... I believe rectal sex and promiscuous sexual acts spread disease and are aberrant acts. Howie doesn't know the word aberrant and thought I meant abhorrent! As far as Transgenger males using female bathroom.... I am 100% against it. Any rapist could pretend to be transgender and enter a women's bathroom too. I will not accept that small children should have to deal with these risks or have to be exposed to these adult issues before high school. At this age they can decide for themselves. I saw an article by a mother of 6 ( one gay and accepted) and she was a kindergarten teacher. A 5 year old was enrolled as transgender! Come on now?!?! What 5 year old even understands gender? I liked to dress like the boys I played with when I was little so we could play army men. I also, ran around the house in a tutu. I didn't go to school that way!! Parents have to stop pushing labels on children and let them be their physical gender until they are old enough to decide for themselves. I don't believe children should be brought to political rallies or LGBTIQ Parades either. Let them be innocent children not pawns in these adult issues! This is my opinion. I will do further research into this site. Maybe I am the one who misunderstands! Perhaps this is a site for those who don't believe in Christianity. I knew it only to be nondenominational! If it is against Christians or only for LBGTIQ..... then I won't be back! Have a great day. May God Bless you and yours.
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Carol Amina
Thank you Marsha for your reply. While we are agreeing to disagree I was of the expression that this group is no agents anyone. It was my understanding that it is pen to all faiths. I am in no way agents Christians. I am however repelled by what at times feels like Christians/ bible believers talking as if there's is the only truth or right way. Each of us has the right to believe or not believe.
Again I sense you to be a compassionate person. You have cared enough to work with those who suffer. We all make choices in life that bring on illness or disorder. Sometimes we do it in ignorance... I hope I am right in thinking there is room here for you and your faith...me and mine...and even Howie and his. We don't have to agree to be kind and respect.
Peace and Blessings to you.
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Marsha
Howie..... I contacted them. They said all are welcome. The ministers are Christian and non-denominational in that they don't follow any specific religious group of beliefs. You NOW SAY YOU FOLLOW CHRIST?!?! Before you called yourself agnostic and then atheist. You are confused. Mentally unstable and prone to argue to make yourself feel better. Good Bye.
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Nix
The majority of ministers are indeed Christian but not all! I never said I was agnostic, I said I may not be right as I don't know everything, but for me following the teachings of Christ has always worked for me. Have a nice day and a pleasant tomorrow!
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Marsha
The teachings of Christ follow the Holy Bible. Good bye, good ridence, good luck, get a life that doesn't involve texting me!!!
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Nix
In your world Marsha, in your world. My relationship with my higher power is mine. My beliefs in Jesus are mine. I am posting in an forum where you started with your condemnation of same sex marriage and casted your doubts and beliefs regarding the studies cited. I am guilty of nothing but defending a minority. I am not texting you. I am posting in a forum. This is a laptop/pc/tablet it is not a cell phone. If you don't want to debate which quite honestly is getting exhausting, then don't check either notification boxes below. They are defaulted at "unchecked." Now go and be free to think as you will high above all of us heretics. I wish you well and will pray for you and ask God to open your mind so you can rid yourself of judgement and superiority. I wish you nor anyone else harm, I wish for you to find the love that you give to everyone else except the ones who don't agree with you. "Free your mind and the rest will follow..."
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Nix
CORRECTION TO THE POST BELOW: I do NOT wish anyone harm
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Marsha
You are only defending your own sexual practices! Don't find yourself noble. You aren't. I don't check the boxes for response. I am reporting and blocking you. You are..... as Dr. Stevens said, a mentally disturbed individual with aberrant desires that you wish to claim are normal and no choice. Sex with anyone IS A CHOICE!
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Nix
Response to the comment below: April 26, 2017 at 4:08 pm I have not mentioned my sexual practices one time on this forum. I have defended what two consenting adult do in the privacy of their own home many many times. That is as graphic as I have gotten. You ma'am have pulled sex acts and body parts into this conversation. You have somewhat of a delusional interpretation of my words and memory of what you have posted. So your delusion makes me wonder if you are indeed the one that is mentally ill.
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Marsha
Peace and blessings to you also, Carol Amina
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Carol Amina
Dear Marsha,
I'm not mad at Jesus or for that matter at Christians. I have attended every Christian denomination and some non-denominational churches under the sun and fine nothing there to feed my soul.
I have read the Bible in all its interpretations cover to cover many times. I gave it almost 20 years of my life and still found nothing over all that rang true to me.
I believe the universal true that runs through most all religions "Do unto others" I have been seeking and studying all my life and until I turned my seeking inwards I didn't find MY truth at age 50.I believe Jesus was a prophet inspired to help others to look inside themselves. He wanted us to realize we are accountable for our actions. Harming one another, judging one another, is not what he wanted.
I believe in the teachings of the Buddha: Our present mental, moral intellectual and temperamental differences are, for the most part, due to our own actions and tendencies, both past and present.I have love in my heart for all living things. I consider the earth my mother. From her we all come, and to her our body returns... I believe the soul is eternal and will reincarnate to allow us to learn, grow then transcend the need fir flesh.
Thank you for what you shared and rest assured I do not discount the tenderness and love in what you said.
Peace and Blessings-
Nix
Carol, you sound like one of the most enlightened one on here. I hate to hear about your past but congrats on staying on course to find true inner peace. I agree with you that the "do onto others" is the universal truth and that we can learn a lot from many other religions. As you may have seen, I have debated with many on here that truly do not seem to be open minded, accepting or compassionate human beings. I've been ridiculed for my beliefs but have also had others with similar thinking as you, supply logical, sensical words as well. I'm not on here to stir of fights but I truly detest someone who claims to be a Christian, then in the next sentence condemn another's lifestyle. And it is only coming from the "Christians" No one identifying themselves from any other religion seem to speak condemnation with self anointed superiority. That is not to say there aren't good, pious Christians out there that walk the walk, Pope Francis seems to be one that actually leads by example for one. Reading you post reminds me that there are others out there that truly seek spiritual salvation by using your heart and mind. I am very happy that you appear to be at true spiritual peace.
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Marsha
Carol.... I am very sad that flawed humans have caused you such harm and misrepresented Christ's love. No way would Our Lord ever want you to turn your back on your own child. It is never the victims fault when abuse of any kind occurs. I don't know what so-called Christian Church that was, but they sound very misguided, prejudice and harmful. I am grateful you left. Please don't judge Christ and The Bible by these unfortunate and misguided people. Jesus Christ loved everyone and died on the cross to save all of us. All one needs to do is turn to him for answers. May God bless you and your family. I pray healing takes place. A true Christian would never try to harm you or condemn you. Judgment is only in the Lord's hands as only he can examine our hearts and souls and truly know our motivation. I was always taught that a sin is a knowing and willful act against God. If in your heart you don't believe something is a sin, then how can it be? Follow your conscience and you won't ho wrong. Please don't give up on Christ even though he has be misrepresented to you. God loves all his creations. We are all flawed in one way or another. God is love!
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Carol Amina
I want people to be happy in there lives as well Marsha, I don't hate Christians even though my Sunday school teacher molested the kids in my neighborhood...I kept my heart open and again was hurt when the pastor of my church told me it was my lacking as a wife that drove my husband to beat me and molest my children...but the last straw was when the church I attended for 10 years sent elders to my home and told me that unless turned my back on my daughter because they found out she was gay and living with her partner that I realized that Christians didn't seem to practice the love and grace that they claimed Jesus did. My spiritual journey is just that...I don't believe in the Bible as the word of god...but I do see some wisdom and truth in it. I see the same wisdom and truth in teachings of many faiths.
I am very found of a few Christians, Muslims, Jews... Buddhist, and Hindus seem to have a way of seeing life that lines up better with my humanist heart ...I know this drives some people nuts but I see that as there issue and not my business.
What would be wrong with just looking the other way! Why must Christians constantly impose there bible and life style on others as if there's is the only way! It's the right way fir you Marsha...not for me. But I would never bash you for your right to act out your sexuality...or worship your god.
Peace
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Marsha
Sorry Carol Amanda Amina...... I mistook this for a text from Howie. No mean spired hatefulness intended. I just want people to be happy, content with their lives and choices and never, ever consider suicide as an answer. Problems will pass. Love can heal all.
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Marsha
Now you say you know God! Before you called yourself agnostic. I am sorry, but I truly believe you are very confused and struggling. A good psychiatrist may be able to help you sort through all this. It is not my intention to judge or condemn. It is fact that the Netherlands and Sweden have excepted and legalized same sex marriage for many years. Unfortunately, height rate of gay suicide still exists. An article by an Australian Psychiatrist also delves into these matters and transgender issues as well. The study found transgender is a psychological disorder with ambiguous gender identification. Many times this has resulted in past bad experiences. You wanted facts..... here are some. I am sure you still will be blinded to the facts presented. Heterosexuals are not the cause of LGBTQ problems. Neither are Christians. Could it be that the lifestyle itself leads to issues of unfulfilled feelings and suicide? I don't want anyone ever to feel unfulfilled, unhappy or suicidal. I am NOT judging. I am worried that this lifestyle destroys the people involved. If you are happy and fulfilled in your lifestyle ..... great and so be it. Thie article stating same sex marriage is decreasing suicide rates isn't accurate. This is still a huge problem. No one should ever consider suicide an option. Nothing or no one can take your soul from you...... only suicide can separate you from hope, faith, life, love and permanently end a life with problems that will pass if given time and hope and love.
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Nix
Finally you offer facts. I will not dispute the study that you cited as I have not read about it. I'm honestly after months of asking for them, am pleased that you found something. This is what intelligent debate consists of. But this article here, offers what sounds like facts to the contrary. But this forum in only in response to this study. Why are you and others so willing to deny this when it is such a positive thing Any reason that cuts down the number is suicides is a positive, great thing.
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Marsha
I have offered FACTS over and over from science and medicine and the Bible. So has Dr. Stevens! You are blind to the facts and deafened to the outcry! Suicide Rates...... have NOT dropped due to same sex marriage! I outlined the facts before citing the Netherlands and Sweden as examples. This is a falsehood!!! You can't be reasoned with. Sadly, all this LGBTQ activity is breaking down families, society, morals and CAUSING SUICIDE!!!!
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Nix
Neither of you offered anything but opinions and bible verses. I just acknowledged the one fact you did offer in the same post you are referring to and said I knew nothing about it but one contradictory study does not negate the other. Why are you so deadset against believing this, with only one contradictory study? I believe you want to believe it hasn't prevented suicides. You want it to not be true and that's very unfortunate.
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Marsha
WE OFFERED MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC FACTS! The blind will not see, the deaf will not hear! I would LOVE to see suicide rates drop and be eliminated! Same sex marriage has NOT accomplished that. I am all for being with whomever you want. I just wish it was as simple as you try to believe! Get married and suicide problem solved! It isn't that simple. Don't rely on that as the answer. Watch your friends and try to be aware! Suicide is never the answer. Suicide is caused. byfeelings of hopelessness, helplessness, depression and lack of self esteem. Many married people commit suicide! It isn't just something that affects the LGBTIQ (have I covered everyone?) community. OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE TRUTH. You are like a broken record that keeps repeating the same thing. Where are your facts? One article? What is your background? We are both medical professionals with psychology and science degrees. We are telling you what medical studies show! Suicide rate among gay men, drug and alcohol users, teenagers, etc. is very high! Marriage doesn't just provide a magic bullet! No pun intended!
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Nix
For Marsha below: Let's debate on post at a time.
The only fact you have is the study in the Netherlands. There has been nothing else, no medical facts no scientific facts. I have offered many citations of studies as well as theories and facts, review my posts, I cannot list them all again. You're missing the entire point of the article. Since marriage equality has become the law, this appears to be a contributing factor to a small decline but decline none the less, in LGBT suicide. The basic premise is public acceptance has never been so high, the majority of American are accepting, that this has caused some troubled LGBT to realize they are not alone and nothing is wrong with them. This in turn gives them hope and reassures them that suicide is not the answer. That is the point here and is a good thing. God almighty why can you accept something positive?1?!?! It will take more time and studies but is a very uplifting message resulting in just the last two years.
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Marsha
STOP CONTACTING ME. I AGREE WITH DR. STEVENS! YOU HAVE VERY CLEAR MENTAL ISSUES!
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Nix
Reply to Marsha April 24, 2017 at 4:24 pm Marsha, contacting you? What are you talking about? Don't reply to my comments and I will then be stop replying to yours. You keep addressing me.
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Marsha
STOP! It has ALL BEEN SAID!
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Marsha
If you knock the door will be opened to you..... I mean ...... ask God and accept he answer. He will answer if you truly ask.
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Carol Amina
I did and I find Tolerance and Love from the God I understand not mean spirits and hatefulness.
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Marsha
It's a choice whom we have sex with! You are hopelessly blinded by your lack of faith. I am not judging you as only God can do that. I am NOT INTERESTED IN ANY FURTHER COMMUNICATION WITH YOU as you are reverting to name calling mask in the guise of saying your not wanting to call me a hypocrite! It is Holy Week for us. Get a life and enjoy it as you see fit. I am proud to be a follower of Christ. He loved all including prostitutes, adulteration, etc. HE DID NOT CONDONE THEIR SINS BUT FORGAVE THEM AND ASKED THAT THEY TURN AWAY FROM SINNING. pray, read the Bible and find your understanding through God. If you adk, the door will be opened to you.
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Nix
First I have agreed with you on any depiction of sexual acts shouldn't be viewed by children. Secondly, this is a site welcoming and encouraging of all religions, Christianity is only one. On this forum, the only ones that seem to condemn others all seem to identify as "Christians." Not all Christians here have preached hateful rhetoric. I've already explained that above. You have identified as Christian numerous times, to me that means a follower of Christ. No other meaning but that. Then you have on numerous times thrown all this "love each other" talk around, but see you're only talking the talk, you are not by what you have said in just this last post, not walking the walk. What was a main teaching of Christ? "Judge not lest ye be judged." Did you get that? You claim to have this great respect for the bible yet are not adhering to this principal. You have many times and in the above post, refer to consenting individuals that are in love as having made an "aberrant sexual choice," your words. Now II've pointed out many times that it is not a choice, but that's not my point here. You are calling a pure, consensual love between two human beings that happen to be of the same sex as aberrant, and likely express their feeling for each other in lovemaking among other ways. By your own admission of being a Christian you are contradicting yourself. I will not go so far as to use the word hypocrite but I'll just leave it as a contradiction. By your words, you are not only asserting your opinion as superior but you are very clearly judging others.
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Marsha
Good bye Howie. I have Easter to think about. I have tried to offer science, The Holy Bible, years of psychology, medicine, etc. Nothing can open your eyes as you refuse to hear.
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Marsha
Most of the comments on here are coming from the Christian community because this is a church site! Many on here are Christian ministers. Don't you watch the news? Horrible things happen to LBGTQ people in other. Countries that are not Christian dominant. Many other countries are far less understanding of aberrant sexual choices than we are in this country. My point is..... love all people. That doesn't mean you like everything they do or accept as normal all their choices. Only God should judge because only God knows a persons motivation and what is in their heart. The Bible says to LOVE others as yourself. It does not say to accept aberrant behaviors or sinful choices i.e. adultry, murder, whatever. Choose as you see fit. I would like to say that sexual acts or any kind don't need to be displayed for children to view. Commercials about ED, Sexual phone calls, etc. are not welcome by many. All this leads to the demoralization of our society as a whole. Have a great day.
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Ralph Miller
HOWIE:You live your life by Christ as an example. That's what I'm talking about.now your telling me something about yourself that we can base a conversation on"The love if Christ"but as far as you defending your sexual preferences ,there is no need.i have no interest in knowing that.it would be like me telling you about the women I've slept with. It would probably make you feel uncomfortable not to mention inappropriate
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Nix
The article centers on very positive effect that has come from marriage equality. It's really hard to have a discussion on the effects of same sex marriage without mentioning same sex? This is an open forum, I am simply defending children of God from my own point of view, that are being judged and condemned and it appears to be only by "Christians" here. I will absolutely call out hypocrisy which has run amuck on this forum. I didn't write it the article and in none of my posts have I said word number one on what I do, how I do it or who I do it with. So it you are uncomfortable with things discussed here, then you are free to not keep coming back and just not read any of these posts at all. I myself have not been graphic, or discussed my sexual experiences at all. There are others here who have said "vagina," "recum" and such. One guy said he rather commit suicide that be a "queer." So if anything makes anyone uncomfortable discussing sex organs, body parts and using the term "queer" as a derogatory term to insult, is probably it. Otherwise, not to be rude, but if subject matter relevant to the article is uncomfortable to you, then stop coming back to the forum. Find a safer topic to discuss.
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Marsha
I have the right to my opinion on this forum just like you, Howie! I would NEVER condemn anyone for their CHOICE! If one of my chilfdren was gay, I would still love and except them. You are jumping to conclusions. I still stick by the fact that promiscuous sex and rectal sex breed diseases. Many don't practice safe sex at all. The rectum is NOT meant for sexual intercourse. This is NOT natural AND is a minority ABERRANT CHOICE.
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Nix
Marsha much of that was in response to the doc. But I will say you can have your opinion but that's all it is. I have mine except with mine I offer factual information as basis for it. That doesn't mean your opinion isn't your's to have, it just means in this discussion your opinion has no merit. It's just your belief that you have developed somehow but have no interest in sharing the origin of your belief. Not trying to be insulting here. Just using simple logic. I've offered fact for every question anyone on here has asked me, The only answers I've received back when I ask you and doc, and well, others as well, is more questions. If you want to discuss and have your opinion to carry weight instead of it just being verbalized feelings based on nothing, then answer questions and bring facts to the table. But you again are so insistent on homosexuality being a choice. I mean it's in almost every one of your posts. You keep hammering away that is it a factual thing, when I've offered viable reasons why it is not. But still you insist as if you have some special evidence of it indeed being a choice. Well what is it? Why are you so convinced that it is a choice? To be so unyielding on your position, you most know some factual bit of information that solidifies your belief. So at the risk of not sounding like a fool, please share what is the proof that you have that homosexuality is a choice? I believe you believe that but I want to know what makes you so sure? Go public so that we will all know the truth!
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Marsha
I base my opinion on a double science major, 30 years in medicine, 20 years as an HIV Counselor and years of psychology! I doubt your opinion is based on as much scientific background! Some are born with atypical genitalia and various birth abnormalities. They are few and far between. Just liking a certain person and deciding on sexual relations are CHOICES. Many are so confused they marry, live their lives a certain way and decide to try the other way. Many go back and forth between sexes. Many choose to dress as the opposite sex..... this isn't forced on them! They have a choice to make. They make it and move on. I am not judging them. Many choose to be celibate. Sexual relations are a choice! Period. Just because you are attracted to someone doesn't mean you have to have sex with them. That is a cop-out. It is. choice.... period. If I found a woman attractive I wouldn't have sexual relations with her! I wouldn't choose to live that lifestyle. I don't like what that lifestyle has to offer. That is my choice. I DONT KNOW HIW I CAN MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR TO YOU!!
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Ralph Miller
CHOICE:/an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities....we are born to eat,do you not choose what foods to eat? Do you not choose the clothes you wear everyday?the human body is born to be in motion,but you can choose to stay still.you can have certain desires and choose not to act on them.many straight people have experimented with members of the same sex as a child and went on to live heterosexual lifestyles (meaning as a youth that desire or curiosity was once there but never explored any further) sex brings on the feeling of pleasure.we experience pleasure when certain chemicals are released in the brain.we all are born with this function. Some people are into same sex intercourse,some are into sex with animals, or just watching pornographic images.these are all choices...to say you have no choice is to say that you are incapable of thinking for yourself.
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Nix
In response to the two posts below Marsha, April 13, 2017 at 3:29 pm and Doc April 13, 2017 at 11:12 pm: Marsha and Doc: People are free to be who they are. The journey to finding one's true self and purpose is a personal one that noone should be ashamed of. The truth is there are many that ridicule these people for their choice to be who they are and live up to their naturally born feelings, provided it hurts anyone else. Sex is a choice I never said it wasn't. Sexuality is not a choice you never said how you arrived to the conclusion it was. Every adult is free to have consensual sexual relations with another adult. Is it a sin? I personally don't think so. Is it often times a bad choice, I do think so. The bigger picture is you both claim that it in God's eyes it is okay for two consenting opposite sex adults to marry and have sexual relations. However in God's eyes it is a sin for two consenting adults of the same sex to marry and have sexual relations. Everyone should be free to marry and have sexual relations relative to who they love be it the same sex or opposite sex. The law has finally caught up and in turn allowed full marriage equality. That is a choice two people make. Their same sex attraction is natural for them and was not a choice they have made. Their attraction was a decision they made in their prepubescent years. I've offered science and experience to prove that. Not to be blunt, but I'm being blunt, neither of you have offered any proof to the contrary. Until you do, your assertions that same sex feelings are a choice remains nothing more than your personal belief. And frankly it's tired. Why do yall care? What does any same sex marriage do to you or your life? I'm willing to bet nothing. It absolutely affects you in no way. Why are yall spending so much time and effort speaking out against other human being's happiness? Why do yall spend so much time and effort even addressing here, not to mention thinking about people's sexual expression in their own bedroom. Don't be so obsessed and uptight. Live and let live. Not one couple's same sex marriage affects either of you. That's the problem with so many of the people against marriage equality, they are preoccupied with what these couples do in their bedroom and like to project a "holier than thou" attitude. The right to judge others is not yours or anyone else to have And doc, sex with animals is not consenting adults, and it's a crime so let's stay on topic please.
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Marsha
Well said!
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Marsha
Well said was intended for Dr. Stevens comments! Howie, you seem to have a problem with Christians! Jewish, Muslims, Hindi, etc. have spoken out again same sex relations. Christians are taught to love their fellow man, love the person not the sin. Many countries that are NOT Christian have actually put LBGTQ people in prison, stoned them, beheaded them. It is horrible. No one who is actually a Christian behaves that way. You can't please everyone! Move on. Live your life and I will do the same.
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Nix
I have a problem with anyone who condemns and judges another. As no one has that right. It just seems that the majority of this rhetoric is coming from the supposed "Christians" on here. I haven't heard any of this diatribe from any other members of these religions. But let me also be quick to say not all Christians on here are hypocrites. There are some who preach love and acceptance, the Christ-like Christians that treat their neighbor as Jesus has taught. Even atheists have been more Christ-like then some of the "hypochristians."
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Marsha
You may as well give up Dr. Stevens. Howie is blind to the Bible, science or any of the facts we have tried to share with him. Latter in texts he calls himself agnostic. There is no way to reach him if he refuses to hear. Only God can open his heart. His beliefs are threatened by the Bible so he calls it made up and fictional. Have a very Happy Easter. May God continue to bless you and help you heal others.
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Marsha
He just won't hear Dr. Stevens.
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Ralph Miller
Marsha: I believe he has some sort of mental disorder.he's trapped in his own little world.reading some of the other post on here,I've notice people have been trying to reach out to him by finding some sort of common ground in which to agree.but he not being able to read between the lines,chooses to insult and defend his lifestyle. He lacks basic social skills.i can only pray for him and wish him luck in his life's journey.
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Nix
It's honestly plain and simple, I do not accept or respect people using their version of the bible to condone bigotry.
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Marsha
Prayer is always a good answer! Thank you Dr. Stevens.
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Nix
You guys should try stepping outside of your bubble and listen what others who are "walking the walk, have to say. You don't have to subscribe nor change but listen and think. http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/07/22/if-youre-lgbtq-heres-what-one-pastor-really-hopes-you-know/
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Marsha
I read the above article you gave link too..... it says what I Have Been stating! I NEVER said anything about burning in hell ! I know God loves all his creations. You are t listening! Not all so called "religious" are being consistent with The Holy Bible's teachings..... to love, not judge, etc. you on the other hand have said the Bible isn't God's word, inspired by the Holy Spirit and spoken through the profits! This offends ME! LGBTIQ......(yes now they have added an "I" for intersex) is so wrapped up in their own hate, distrust, and judgment of Christians at a whole..... they they turn a deaf ear when someone is really agreeing that they are loved and valued by God! ALL I SAID WAS......RECTAL SEX IS UNNATURAL AND SPREADS DISEASE. I stand by that! Transgender, etc. does NOT deserve the right to rule the world. I am NOT sharing a women's bathroom with Men ( those with male genitalia) and trying to explain this to our little girls who don't need to see male genitals in a women's bathroom! School is a place to learn.... period. All this sexual and gender stuff needs to wait for high school to be represented just like any sex education! I read recently of a kindergartener who was 5 years old as being enrolled in school as transgender!?!? That is ridiculous! It disrupted the entire classes activities, bathroom privileges, etc. No 5 year old knows for sure what they are. I played with boys at that age and played army men. Etc. as that was all that lived in my neighborhood. I considered them my friends and equals. We were just children. It wasn't until I was much older that I began to think of sexuality and gender issues. 5 year old with Transgender issues?? One messed up set of parents is what that child has!
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Nix
Homosexuality hasn't been classified as a mental disorder in almost 50 years due to progress and science. There is multiple studies to confirm that it is genetic. Pediphiliacs can say what they want, but they aren't trained medical professionals nor scientists, so their opinion of themselves that they may use to justify their horrible actions has no relevance to this discussion or any others. And once again: Flaunt by definition: to parade or display oneself conspicuously, defiantly, or boldly. Have you read anything that you keep responding to? I have not paraded anything. My lifestyle is not something I put on parade. You admittedly know nothing about me, which entails my lifestyle. You want to know something about me? I try to live my life with Christ as an example. I try not to judge and treat my fellow man with compassion and understanding. I fail at times but when I do I take ownership and apologize when I hurt someone, when doing so causes no further harm. That's all you need to know.
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Marsha
We are speaking about the LBGTQ community with their gay parades and all of your constant pushing to have LBGTQ represented in movies, children's programs etc. We are not saying you personally... as we don't know you. I certainly don't condemn anyone for living their lives as they see fit. I have homosexual friends and family whom I love and except. Do I like the flaunting of gay parades, etc. by the LBGTQ community..... NO! I have seen small children brought to these parades by their parents and made part of something they are too young to even understand. It is ridiculous. I wouldn't take small children to political rally's either.
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Nix
Scroll above to your April 12th post to Dr. Stevens, you very blatantly stated as did Dr Stevens on a separate post from April the 12th, that I was flaunting and bullying. And I was very quick to call that out and ask for examples. I take no offense, I only ask for examples. I didn't get any. The gay pride parade was born out of incidents at Stonewall in NYC. The LGBT community had been bullied and brutalized continuously in that club and neighborhood, until one day stood up and fought back! Then they organized a parade for which they got a permit and are free to do, to honor the movement and to say I am proud of who I am and I won't be treated second class any longer. Then it became tradition. They had and still have every right to do that. If anyone disagrees, then they have every right to not attend. If you have seen small children there, I must ask why were you there? I don't think children should go bc it is an event for adults and older teens, but that is for a parent to decide.
Yes, the LGBT community is represented in movies, TV etc bc they are part of the American fabric. They are mom, dads, sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. As for children's entertainment, I haven't seen that save for a book or two about two mommies or something like that. Again if you disagree don't allow your children to attend these parades of view this material. Side note: if you're referring to the "Beauty and the Beast" film, I ask not you in particular, but the few looneys that got up in arms, did you see it? Then how can you judge it? It appears once the mainstream saw the scene in question they thought "much ado about nothing." And just to add it is rated PG, so it's up to the parents to decide.-
Marsha
I have no problem with LBGTQ being in entertainment, films, etc. when their is tasteful depiction. Modern Family and Ellen both are fine. There is absolutely no need for this in children's shows. You don't hear Ellen talking about her sex acts on TV. The Q apparently stands for queer as certain individuals don't find theirselves represented by the other catagories. Read up! I thought the word queer was offensive so I was surprised when this appeared, but I guess some prefer it. Whatever. I don't discuss my feelings about natural behaviors vs. those I believe unnatural with anyone. The only reason I mentioned it here was because of people trying to blame religion, etc. for LBGTQ suicide. It is their inner struggle and psychiatric problems that cause suicide. I do not condone any type of bullying. I have friends and family who are gay and lesbian and I love them and accept them. Everyone has a right to live any way they wish without anyone bothering them. We all make choices in life. We all have all sorts of thoughts and temptations we don't act on. What about someone who feels compelled to murder? Do you believe God made him want this?
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Nix
Well you are starting to sound a little reasonable to me. Absolutely no one straight or gay needs to be talking about their sex acts on TV unless it's an adult oriented show on premium cable or something like that. I mean even Dr. Ruth was after prime time. The article wasn't blaming suicide on religion, just saying some people's' beliefs are cast upon their children and that could be one factor. It's some people on here that refuse to believe the study. But let's call a spade a spade some remote town where many transgendered youth reside are heavily influenced by fire and brimstone churches, and when they've grown up believing that doctrine and have family that would choose that over their child, then yes religion is most definitely a strong factor in suicide. Murder is wrong, everyone is brought up knowing that. If they aren't there are laws that explicitly say that. There are punishments that are set forth for anyone who commits that act. I'm not sure if you're comparing murder to sexual relations between members of the same sex, but let's just look at it very simply: murder is a crime where one inflicts harm on another to the point of death. Sex between two consenting same sex adults is not a crime and let me say again, consensual. Not wrong.
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Marsha
Sometimes evil forces working in this world try to blind us to what is right and wholesome ie. Murder, pedophilia, adultry, stealing, etc. Many things we desire in this world are not good desires and will serve to harm us. That is the purpose of much of the Old Testament laws and rules. They were written for the Jewish faith. Jesus came to open the eyes of the gentiles so they could be saved. If you pray with your soul for God's direction and faith it will be given to you. Then with God's direction through the Holy Spirit you will be guided by your conscience to follow The Lord's message.
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Nix
This is my reply to you April 13 7:08 pm response below. I agree with all of that. But I will point out the evils you mention are crimes, non consensual crimes at that. They inflict harm on others. I do not believe everything that is said to be wrong in the bible is wrong. I will never stop eating shrimp or crawfish. But yeah I agree with you, but that is what works for me. I never tell someone how I believe, not saying you do just speaking for myself. Unless they ask, I keep my spiritual beliefs to myself. I also am not so arrogant to say my belief is better than anyone else's, if they are actually sincere and treat their fellow man with love and compassion. I may be wrong, maybe Jesus wasn't the Son of God, maybe there is no God. I don't sport Agnostic tendencies, all I'm saying is I may not be right but it's always worked for me. And I am at a very good place.
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Nix
That's such a daft statement, doc. Once again: Pedophilian is known in the medical community as pedophilic disorder as stated in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. You being in the medical field should have at one time or another, heard of that manual that the entire physiological community adheres to If you truly a doctor that should mean something.
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Ralph Miller
But a pedophile will use the same excuse(that they are born that way) At one time homeosexuaity was too,considering a mental disorder.(and is still considered that in some cultures)We don't care to hear about your lifestyle. We judge people by their character.who they are in the inside, are they caring,are they spritual,do they have a good heart.everyone has flaws.And we can sometimes overlook one's flaws.but when you flaunt those flaws is when things become problematic.you want acceptance,tell us who you are as a person,and not your sexual orientation. For once be a man,and speak for yourself.I have no hate towards you,I don't know you.you never really said anything about yourself, just your lifestyle. And people will find that offensive
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Marsha
VERY WELL STATED DR. STEVENS! Unfortunately, Howie is too caught up in his sexuality and trying to make everyone believe it is natural. He won't listen to common sense and reason. Most of us don't go around talking about what we do in our personal lives. Flaunting sexual preference and trying to bully the rest of us in to accepting this as natural is just plan sickening.
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Ralph Miller
Marsha.my thoughts exactly.for some reason he's not comprehending what were trying to say.Howie you keep defending your lifestyle by bringing up scientific bable. Let me put it in away you should understand.... When you meet someone for the first time,do you introduce yourself as being gay? I know plenty of people who are into that lifestyle, but I knew them as a person first before there sexuality was revealed. Some of which are still good friends of mine today. To tell us about your sexual preferences makes us uncomfortable.
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Nix
Scientific bable (sic)? So science is complete bs? Really doc? What is you doctorate in, may I ask? Where did you receive it? Neither you doc, or Marsha have made any sort of common sense. And reason???? Doc to deny science, can you have any degree of effective reasoning? Marsha, you can't even or answer questions about the conclusions you've drawn. Yet you continue with them. You offer nothing behind your ludicrous illogical statements. We all get that you both feel the way you do, no one is challenging your feelings, they are yours to have. But when you spout out absurdities with no truth, logic, facts then, well then you sound absurd. Yes I use science, you are right. To use anything else is foolish. Are you foolish, doc? The "scientific bable (sic)" seems to answer that. I hope not but ... I am not pushing my sexuality on you, Marsh or Doc. I don't want you to be homosexual. I don't care what you are. What I do care about is your attacks on LGBT community. Who are you to have the right to judge and condemn, either of you? I take issue with either of you talking about something you know nothing about. You keep saying "choice" and "preference." Neither of you know anything about it unless you are gay or bisexual. So unless you are, then what do you know about it being a choice? Where do you get this tidbit of enlightenment that you continually say over and over and over? Please just once, one of you, give us the origin of your flawed belief. If you offer something to defend it, well maybe it won't be flawed, but until then... only a fool speaks matter-of factly, about something they know little or nothing about. I know what I'm talking about as does the scientific community. But that's "bable" (sic), correct? I was say brainwashing is the babble here. Accepting something as truth w/out any proof is just ignorant, dangerous and just idiotic. So here's your chance to explain the reasons behind your thinking. If you choose not to then making such bold proclamations is simply ludicrous and carries no merit.
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Nix
Please give me one example where I have flaunted my sexuality, just one. I have spoken out against people playing God and judging the members of the LGBT community. This forum is in response to the article. How can you have a conversation regarding a positive effect of finally allowing homosexuals the equal rights heterosexuals have enjoyed so long, without bringing up sexuality? But again how have I personally flaunted it?
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Ralph Miller
Pedophiles say the same thing,that their born that way.seems to be the best excuse nowadays.i was born gay,or I was born a pedophile,or I was born fat.It's easy for the weak minded to use this excuse,because they refuse to take responsibility for the life they choose.if you enjoy that lifestyle,then be happy and keep it to yourself.people don't necessarily hate you because your gay or lesbian.but when you tell kids their born that way and that is natural is when you have conflict.Not only are you forcing your lifestyle down our throats,but the throats of our children.children are our most precious resource, and we'll do whatever it takes to protect them.So as long as you flaunt that lifestyle, you will always have opposition. (Even our President has reversed the bathroom bill) Now I'm sure someone's going to post something defending their lifestyle, once again making excuses(You were born that way,or one would have to have been gay to know they had a choice.or even bring up hate)shoving it down our throats. We've heard these excuses time and time again. You've become predictable.
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Marsha
Well stated. I agree!
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Nix
Short and sweet to you both: Why would either of you listen to pedophiles opinions? Listen to the medical community that classifies pedophila as a mental disorder. You are both giving credence to the mentally disturbed in their defense for their heinous actions. Unless your mission is to save pedophiles, then why do listen to what they have to say, not to mention repeat it?
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Marsha
Our point exactly! Jesus loved the adulterer, but disliked the sin. The Bible is to be taken very literally. Jesus is the son of God. You would know this if you were truly a believer. Your eyes are closed. CHOOSE to believe as you will.
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Nix
You are still clinging on the flawed thinking that homosexuality is a sin. Where do you get that other than your bible? Why would you take the bible literally? It is a manmade collection of stories. So many of which is contradictory. Do you cut your hair? Have you ever worn pants? Ever worked on the Sabbath? Ever eaten shellfish? Ever worn blended fabric? So God made Adam and Eve? Who did there childe procreate with? Gross Are dinosaurs fake? Did Moses really put two of ever species on an Ark? Why did he leave off unicorns? Is the earth flat? Where do you get the idea that a book penned by many men, over many, many years, in many dialects is 100% truth? Mind boggling.
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Marsha
The Bible is not manmade or corrupted.... it is the word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. It has serviived over 2000 years for a reason. The commandments tell you what are sins. There are 10 of those. Not cutting hair, eating certain foods, etc. are God's advise on healthy living in a way best for us. I never said homosexuality was a sin! I said is is aberrant behavior and a choice. Sadly, you are not a true believer or you would be inspired by the Holy Spirit to understand Christ's words and the Bible. Christ came to die for our sins so that we may all be saved. That includes everyone who opens their heart to the Holy Spirit, God the Father and Jesus Christ who make up the Holy Trinity which is God. I said homosexuality was an aberrant behavior choice. Look up aberrant. Look up choice. Nothing is forced on us. That is why we have free will.
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Nix
This is in reply to your April 13th 3:48 post below: Easy question, how did the word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit can put into text? I am glad we agree that homosexualtiy is not a sin. I apologize if I misunderstood you somewhere along the way. But you state that homosexuality was an aberrant behavior choice. Why so? You are free to have a mate and live happily and freely and to express love through intercourse, why should homosexual be any different? How is it a choice, you keep saying that, seriously on like 25 different posts if not more but not once have you explained where you came to your personal conclusion that it is a choice. I only ask how? I have many times explained how it is not, so if you are going to continue with this assertion, it's your turn to explain the basis of your assertion. You can't just say the sky is red and expect me or anyone else for that matter, to think you know what you're talking about or that your interesting hypothesis is correct without offering something to support it. Furthermore as I just said in my other, recent post, for you to say homosexuality was an aberrant behavior choice, you are asserting your opinion once again as fact. You're free to have an opinion but don't offer it as fact. Lastly by even saying that you are judging others, which does not align with Christianity. So I'll let that simmer, you surely have some thinking to do.
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Marsha
Howie..... The medical community tends to believe homosexual sex is a choice. Just because you are attracted to someone doesn't mean you are forced to sleep with them. That is a choice! The Bible is the book inspired by the Holy Spirit through Our Lord's intervention to pass God's word to all of us. Some are blinded by lack of faith and are unable to receive the message. Yes, I do believe in Noah and the ark. Archeologists and scientists believe it has been found. The fact that you believe this is a book of made up stories shows you are not a Christian, not a follower of God and are blinded by deceivers of this world. I am unable to reach you. Only God can do that if you open your heart and ask. Good luck and best wishes.
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Nix
Sex is a choice, sexuality is not. Science supports this. Don't tell me how my spiritual beliefs constitutes or doesn't constitutes what I am. You don't know what's in my heart or mind not have any right to tell me what I am. All Christians are not alike. Look at all the Christian religions, bibles, opposing theological theories and discussions.
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Marsha
OK.....sex is a choice! That is what I am saying! Good luck to you. You have many issues to deal with. You admit in another post to doubting the Bible, God and the Holy Spirit! I am done with this communication. I feel sorrow for you. May God enlighten you.
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Marsha
Howie...... I owe you NO explanation as to how I decided to be heterosexual. I keep my choices and sexual practices to myself..... as I wish you would! Be whatever you want to be, but STOP forcing your choice down EVERYONES throats! Many are just plain sick of hearing about it. Flaunting your sexuality is ridiculous. No one will ever convince me that a rectum which is where feces is evacuated.... is any natural avenue for sex. That is plain disgusting. I am sure gay men must do all sorts of things to allow for rectal sexual activity. If that seems NATURAL to you..... you are confused. Pedophiles argue they were born that way too or forced to be that way by life circumstances just like you! Using your reasoning...... how would you know unless you are a pedophile? I don't have to be a murderer to know killing is wrong! Our conscience tells us right from wrong. The struggle you have faced is from going against your conscience to do what you find appealing. If we all did that.... where would this world be?? Extinct that is where! If you want children, marriage and the things a normal heterosexual life provides you really need us heterosexuals to provide it for you. NATURAL? I think not. Do as you wish.... stop flaunting to our children and trying to convince little ones they are gay. All children tend to experiment and many times with their own sex first. That doesn't mean they are gay. Many times being gay can be traced to childhood trauma and lack of social skills with the opposite sex. What bothers me is that gays seems to want to recruit everyone to try and justify their own lifestyle choice!
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Nix
First of all how have I flaunted anything? Seriously how? I know you avoid answering questions that challenge you but I have simply defended people you are claiming are unnatural, thus forcing your flawed opinion on everyone as if it is superior and truth.Flaunted my lifestyle? Really? Flaunt by definition: to parade or display oneself conspicuously, defiantly, or boldly. So be definition again, I haven't flaunted nothing. How have I forced my natural state of sexuality down anyone's throat? Other than my posts which you are free to not read, I haven't done anything but stated factual information. You can't even defend your "choice" as you put it, to be heterosexual. You don't have to explain anything about yourself to me, but by avoiding the question, you cannot keep claiming this "choice" garbage. You offer nothing, absolutely nothing as far as science or your own experience to support that nonsense. Sorry, but you lose this argument.Let it go until you have something substantial. Pedophiles can say what they want but it is a mental defect, a sickness and it is also a crime and 100% non consensual. How do I know? Science, something you choose to avoid. Pedophilian is known in the medical community as pedophilic disorder as stated in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. You being in the medical field should have at one time or another, heard of that manual that the entire physiological community adheres to. So I ask you to try backing up your opinions with science sometimes and maybe you won't come across as ignorant. I going to break some harsh news to you but plenty, PLENTY of heterosexuals engage in anal sex. It's probably best if you quit obsessing over it if you find it "disgusting." LET IT GO. You are spending too much of your life thinking about it. You don't have to engage in the practice.No one is asking you to. God made some heterosexual and procreation is a part of that. God made a smaller percentage homosexual and procreation isn't a part of that. But he also made scientists and doctors that can aid with procreation when it is desired by those that are homosexual. So you needn't worry about extinction when procreation is so prevalent. I don't ever talk about sex or sexuality to any child. I only tell them to be who they are and never compromise themselves for acceptance. If they are innocent, good, healthy children then they are perfect the way they are. God makes no mistakes! Something I will say is of concern is that you counsel people affected by HIV. God knows what you say to them. Until you get your own house in order, you should probably not try to counsel anyone. No one should be in the medical field when they judge and project their perverse views on their patients, and obviously has no use for science.
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Ralph Miller
I don't have to defend my lifestyle. Don't have to defend any one else's lifestyle (see the difference, young man)I'm still hearing excuses.your quick to try and point out how everyone else is judging"but by avoiding the question"(As you put it)our lifestyle is normal (no need to defend that)yet you still find the need to defend yours.(do you still hate yourself) I'm quite sure that it was some older that first convinced you that you were born that way and it's natural. That my friend is how a child predator operates,to convince you that your thoughts are normal
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Nix
Don't defend anything. But then don't comment about things you are ignorant about. No one ever convinced me anythiing about my thoughts. You know what they say about assuming! But in this case it's solely on you. Now wouldn't it be a good thing if you did something positive instead of making baseless assumptions, young man?
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Ralph Miller
Let's back this up with common sense. You say you believe in god,so to say you were born that way is saying that God made you the way you are. Which by your standards makes that lifestyle normal. The bible warns us about immoral behavior. And that such behaviors have consequences. If people didn't fornicate, would there be STD's Was the rectum designed for sexual intercorse,If so why is the walls of the rectum so thin that you can cause tears in the lining from a simple bowl movement.compaired to the walls of a woman's vagina.semen is not design for the rectum. It's designed to carry out waste.You consider this normal behavior
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Nix
Once again: in another post you're telling me that what I have posted may cause someone to feel uncomfortable when I have never discussed my personal relations, yet you are and others are mentioning sex organs and body parts. Let's see defense of the LGBT community not mentioning sex one time or any details of such vs. vile discussions of what body part men's sexual organs go into aka sex. You tell me which would make one more uncomfortable. Common sense is don't have relations with anyone underage or anyone nonconsenting; and don't worry about what other consenting adults do or don't do. It's noone's business other than the consenting adults. That SHOULD be common sense. I believe in a higher power, energy, being, I call God. I find Jesus as a role model. But I do not take the bible literally. I don't if Jesus is the Son of God, but that believe, while I am open to the possibility that he may not be, it has always worked for me. I do not have much use for the Old Testament other than a good read. I do not believe STD's are a result of immoral behavior. I don't believe God send storms to punish sinful communities. I do not believe adulterers should be stone to death bc "God said so." That's some Pat Robertson nonsense. I believe causing harm to another will result in punishment. I believe in thanking God everyday for my life, blessings and opportunities. I believe my fellow man should be treated with love and compassion. Period. That's my spiritual belief system. I do not expect it to be anyone else's nor would I try and push it on anyone else. If someone asks as you have, I will not hesitate to let them know where I stand.
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Marsha
I am not judging and don't say anything negative to those seeking counsel! Are you some kind of idiot? Faunting is what happens with the LGBTQ parades. For your information.... science also called homosexuality a psychological disorder for years. I am not saying it is anything but a choice to go with those feelings. That is your right. Anal intercourse spreads disease.... period. No matter who is doing it.... another CHOICE! You just want to be told to do whatever you want and we will call it ok and justify it by saying you were born that way. By the way now gay and lesbian are LBGTQ... could we add a few more letters and lump prostitution in there to? Another choice. Do what you want, but stop trying to make the rest of us believe it is natural. It is not what was intended for our species!
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Nix
With your constant disdain for the LGBT community, I worry about you and others like you who are responsible for counseling others.You're showing your ignorant, dangerous attitude here so what's to say you don't step out of the medical realm and preach your own unaccepting, superior, "I know what's natural but disregard facts" agenda. You cannot say what is natural for anyone but you. If God created someone to have natural attraction for the same sex, then who are you to say that that isn't natural for them? I'm not even going to discuss body parts and sexual activity bc I think that is crass and unnecessary for this conversation, I'm just not going there no matter what you and others resort to. And beastiality and pedophilia, nice try if that's what you wanted to inject (sort of like what you did with prostitution but I'll get to that later), but completely unrelated as I have proven with facts over and over on this forum. But again if God created opposite sex individuals to be attracted to each other and have a sexual relations then is it safe to assert that God created same sex individuals to be attracted to each other and have a sexual relations.What consenting adults do in private shouldn't concern anyone but them. You are trying to inflict your ideas of morality onto others, and trying to make your way into their bedroom so once again you can judge and scorn. Why do you keep going back to this, your fascination with other people's sex lives is actually kind of creepy. You can say, which you have many times before without offering anything substantial, if anything at all, that it's not natural and it's a choice. I'm sure that's what you're thinking, but I must ask how do you know any of this? How do you know what is natural for anyone else? How do you know it's a choice? You cannot answer these questions, but you are sure quick to condemn and judge as if you are something superior. You choose to speak for God, CHOICE. You choose to judge and condemn, CHOICE. You just want to be told that you can say whatever you want and we call it okay and justify it by...well...what do you justify it by? You've given nothing but the occasion bible quote. Facts trump opinion every time. And I don't want to be told by anyone what is okay for me. I'm not asking and will not accept anyone's instruction or approval. I have a fine relationship with my maker and sleep just fine at night. About the Q. I don't even know what the Q stands for there are a couple of answers floating out there and has nothing to do with my point so please don't deflect. But another question is what right do you have to judge prostitutes? Have you ever been in their shoes? And what does prostitution have to do with homosexuality? Are you trying to demonize LGBT as you appear to be doing with prostitutes? Really? And you claim to be a follower of Christ? Who do you think He would be walking side by side with when He returns, just as he did 2000 years ago?
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Marsha
Dr. Stevens is absolutely right! I am an RN with many years in Critical Care and Emergency Medicine. I am also an HIV Counselor. 2 of the highest risk behaviors include rectal sex and IV drug use with shared needles. Do either of these practices seem natural to you? It is not only religious that believe this is unnatural and dangerous. The Bible does warn against unsafe and unclean acts to protect us. I am not judging, just stating facts. Is prostitution and pedophilia something we are "born with"? To say we are all born a certain way is a cop-out. We all have free will. We allow ourselves to live as we choose to live. At least admit there are choices. Why do men who have no desire for a woman try to replicate a normal sex act by using a rectum vs. a vagina? Why to lesbians use devices to mimick a male penis? Doesn't seem natural at all and isn't. Live as you wish, but own up to your choice. So many are lead to believe they are born that way and don't have a choice! That is a lie.
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Nix
Marsha you are still speaking nonsense, sorry to be so blunt. Pedophilia is brutality against children. It is a crime and not something to compare anything too except crime against another human beings. Studies show it is environmental and most offenders were victims themselves. These people have mental defects. If you are trying to be offensive then you shouldn't comment at all. And to prostitution even you can agree no one is born a prostitute, I can't believe I'm even saying all of this. As for being gay, I will once again say that you would have to be gay to indeed know as you seem to be so hellbent on preaching that it is a choice. As I've asked you before and you have yet to say, how would you know it is a choice unless you chose yourself? The next comment you offer should have an answer to that question or it proves you are dodging and if you are dodging you are making your comment invalid and nothing but opinion. I invite you to please describe the day you sat your parents down and let them know that you have spent painstaking years pondering and came to the conclusion that you chose to be straight. Then tell me/us what made you decide to be attracted to men? Really what was it that made you decide your attraction to men outweighed your attraction to females? Does that sound ludicrous? Well it should because that's how ludicrous your and other's statements sound when you say people "choose" to be gay. You don't know anything about that. As for HIV, you are correct, unprotected vaginal and anal sex and IV use a major contributing factors to contracting HIV. Just as smoking is a major factor to contracting lung cancer. These practices are not healthy. Everyone should be educated on how to have safe sex and be cigarette free. What you can't and have no valid argument about is "normal." The only thing you have a right to speak on when it comes to what is normal for two consenting adults is what you do in your own bedroom with your consenting partner. Same sex couples do what they feel is normal when it comes to consensual sex with their partners. I wouldn't sit around wondering about rectums vs vaginas and what ppl do in the privacy of their own home as you seem to be doing. That's a little troublesome and perverse. And stop throwing in a book that was written by man, as evidence to your argument. Not everyone believes in every word and some do not believe in it at all. I would suggest that if you wish to have a valid point or argument, you use facts and science, otherwise it's just your opinion and by stating it over and over with no truth you just come across as if you are shoving your opinion down others throats as if your opinion is superior and correct. Now please if you care to, say how would you know being gay it is a choice unless you chose yourself? Give an answer, don't just "cop out."
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Chastity Oquendo
Hi I am minister Chastity and I am proud to do LGBTQ weddings because it's ok to be who u want to be like me I'm a lesbian and I minister LGBTQ weddings because I feel that it's right to have the one person you love to be your husband/wife because now it's legal yay equality so if you want a wedding like this plz contact me I am always available for anything supergayqueen22@gmail.com thank you and have an amazing day
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Marsha
People can live any way they wish. I don't hate anyone, but facts are facts. Same sex sexual relationships are unnatural. Anal intercourse spreads diseases like AIDS! The rectum wasn't intended for sexual intercourse.... period. Two woman together are missing something essential!
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Amber
Sorry Doc but hate is the destroyer. Misunderstanding and flat out fear is the destroyer. It doesn't matter what you focus it on, race, other religions, the LBGT community... it's deeper than what you see. Love and acceptance is never wrong. Lashing out at things that you dislike or don't agree with that's wrong, even in the name of religious convictions.
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Ralph Miller
Amberlf.this is why education is important.did you clearly not understand my post.what does love&hate have to do with facts.don't have to be religious to know same sex intercourse is unnatural and unhealthy.
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Ralph Miller
2 timothy 3:1-9 These are signs of the last days.people will be swayed by all kinds of evil desires,always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of truth.these are trying times for the spritual(notice i did not say christains)the lbgt community say's their not trying to force there lifestyle on us(there right) Because while their distracting us with their gay parades,and there gay rights agenda their going after our kids.In 2016 California past a law that will teach LBGT history in public schools.Disney (who caters to children&toddlers)will now start adding gay characters to their movies. Gay marriage destroys the foundation of the family unit.Because if they plan on starting a family,the child would have to be ripped away from their biological mother or father.By doing this you put your needs over the needs of the child
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Marsha
So true!
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Marsha
I don't know what your gift is, but I do know true gifts come from God. I am not judging you, You called yourself a pagan. I am simply responding that witch craft, wizardry, etc. are not where we are directed to receive help. Help should come from God alone as only God is Holy and all powerful. If you possess a gift, use it to serve God. All true gifts come from The Lord. There is only one God and he is there for you too. May God bless you with faith, love and all his graces.
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syliasnowcarter
Marsha please understand that in this conversation between me and you, Only ONE of us believe in God. Your words hold no truth for me as my religion differs from yours. I refuse to claim otherwise as I feel that would insult the faith of many Christians. I will accept your blessing and offer you my own. Merry Meet. Merry Part and Merry Meet again.
-Mistydawn
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Mistydawn Carter
Marsha where lien men there is always darkness. That's a sad truth I've found to exist in my 24 years on this planet. As a child I saw more darkness than I cared for and was told I was a sinful witch because of a belief and one special ability. I know the capabilities of men (mankind) with power. The reason for our three branch system is to keep power from corrupting. This also held true with men of religious away back when the Catholic church had tried to control all of Italy (Bit dated example but here you go). I understand that you are trying to say it should not but in reality "should" is a word we use to comfort ourselves. To say there is no happiness or love to be found is a bit insulting as I have loved and been loved as well as spread joy to others in my life. As for getting our power from Satan most of us could tell you Lucifer holds no position in our craft. The darkness I fear from my religion is the darkness I fear from any human being.
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Marsha
There should NOT be a dark side to any religion! God alone is Holy. Following The Holy Trinity is to follow Christ, receive the Holy Spirit into our souls and try our best to live as the Bible outlines. It is clearly stated that witches, mystics, wizards and fortune tellers are getting their power from Satan and should not be followed. That is a form of darkness. It is a form or idol worship. I am not condemning those who practice these things, but condemning the sin itself. No happiness, love or salvation lies down this path.
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Mistydawn Carter
The reason it affected me in the way that it did is because I am a pagan. I don't try to hide it like some sects believe we should. As a solitary practitioner I do face scrutiny. As a child I was bullied in school for believing in magic, not even being a pagan yet but for the simple belief that magic existed. That passage only made me more frightened back then, and the only way I could deal with my fear was with anger. Most of that came in the form of sarcasm and or violence in extreme cases. As a child I wanted nothing more than to be accepted with my belief in magic as well as my faith in Jesus Christ. I finally realized I wouldn't be accepted within the church and I grew stronger in my religion as a pagan. However knowing what I know of history and the Christian, Muslim, and Islamic religions I am still cautious. You never know when a radical from Any religion might decide it's time for another crusade. I mean no offense in any of this I know the darkest side of my own religion and give them the same wariness as others if not more.
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Marsha
This is true! Amen. Ben.... though it is all clearly written and explained in the Bible, those who don't follow the spirit are blinded to the truth. Sadly, they hear they word but don't receive it.
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Ben
Marsha I totally agree with you. It's very sad but Jesus did worn us about this. Mistydawn, sorry but I'm not really sure what your point was? The old testament had certain rules according to their culture that's why the ten commandments was created cuz it wasn't what God wanted. The new testament had cultures doing the same and also tried to go around God's law, a lot like we do now so Jesus made it clear and simple for us so we couldn't find our own gray area to fulfill our selfish desires. It's amazing if you read the Bible with God's purpose behind it instead of how most of us do by trying to twist it around to satisfy our selfish desires and make us comfortable. Accepting all people is God's way but it doesn't mean we have to agree with or support their choices.
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Mistydawn Carter
Ben I am happy to inform you of what I was talking about. In Deuteronomy chapter 18 it states thou shall not suffer a witch to live. This sentence has followed me my entire life with a chilling fear as we few still remember the witch trials of Salem to be sure but really it was the 1600s. Also the reason for some of the flees from Europe during the reign of King James the first. My main and final point was as human beings we deserve to be accepted not just tolerated, and that would best be served through trying to see the other side of the situation. I am dating a Christian who had reminded me to not look to harshly at Christainity and to remember that sometimes people aren't always the best example of how Religion is supposed to be.
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Ben
Mistydawn Carter thank you for providing more info for me. I read the scripture you mentioned but if I may ask why has this affected you so much? I want to be sensitive to your feelings and have a better understanding if you're willing to share. I also agree that to tolerate is not the right word to use. I hope you didn't get that from what I had said. I also agree that sometimes Christians don't represent God in the best way and unfortunately I am guilty of this too.
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
Does it not also say that any woman whom is the subject of divorce is an adultress, and that she being such should be cast from society or stoned to death? Anytime someone brings up the old testament I get reminded everyday that I am only allowed life because it might be considered a sin to kill me oh and against the constitution. Then I remember a saying an eye for an eye will make the world blind. I'm thinking now an ear for an ear is going to make the world deaf. I think we can all agree its amazing that the rates are lowering, and if acceptance of another's perspective and or lifestyle has changed it then it's a great thing. Gay marriage is the symbol for the LGBTQ to rally behind to know they are accepted in the community. Anyone who sees a problem with that fact needs to read whichever holy book the religion they follow owns. Maybe even try to put themselves in others shoes.
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DJ
Teaching children to accept all people is a noble gesture as all people are equal, & equally loved by God. NO one should be bullied for any reason & it starts with wise adults teaching the young by practicing acceptance themselves & being role models. I do not say "tolerate" because that implies negativity. To: Love your neighbor as yourself is a direct commandment from God. it is simple, straightforward & says it all. LGBT marriage is a God given right- equal rights for Monogamy in any community is very healthy for all.
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Ben
I do agree with most of what you said however to say LGBT marriage is a God given right is a contradiction to the bible. Jesus said over and over that true followers of Christ forfeit their rights in order to truly follow and obey Him. I know it's against what our natural desires and thoughts are and that is exactly why it's so necessary and important. We surrender all of our desires to Him so we can live by the Spirit. It doesn't mean they aren't there anymore it just means we need to keep them in check. Obviously this is very difficult to do as most of us struggle in this area. The bible is so clear on marriage and how we are to act toward one another. It talks about the guidelines of marriage as well. For anyone who doesn't agree that a marriage is between a man and a women I have one question...where in the bible whether it be the old testament or the new testament does it ever approve in direct the union between a man and a man or a women and a women? This should settle any confusion cuz the bible specifically says a man and a women should become one. This is repeated many many times so it's not a coincidence for those of you who will try to twist and manipulate the bible.
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Ben
Vaughn, you obviously have an issue for some reason with Christians, the bible and possibly God. Its not your free will to tell people they can't pray for you and to bring Jesus' name in that demand speaks volume. Scripture tells us believers to pray for others constantly even our enemies. This is not suppose to be an option for us. Most people pick and choose what to believe in the bible especially if it supports their comfort or lifestyle. This is very very dangerous. The bible wasn't given to us to use our own understanding and to determine what makes sense but to get to know who God is and how to live according to His will. This can ONLY happen by the Holy Spirit. And if the Holy Spirit is living in you there is no way to disagree with what the Bible says. It's just not possible! Again according to scripture!
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Marsha
He doesn't want prayer because he knows that would go against what he is doing! He wants to do what he wants no matter what the Bible or God tells us. That is like an adulterer who doesn't want to hear they are wrong because they want to keep doing what they are doing. Free will is for everyone. Let them do what they believe is right. It is between them and God.
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William
Again, well said Ralph!!!
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Ralph J Miller
People say there born that way... How is that possible when boys are young,they don't like girls.say say their nasty and have cootys.but when they reach a certain age,they become attracted to girls.So if they were born that way wouldn't they have been attracted to girls to begin with.being gay or lesbian does not define who you are.it's a state of mind(a preference).how are you born with a preference.that's like saying killers are born,or child molesters are born that,or that we are born to hate.no one is born that.these are feelings learned at a young age(while our minds are still developing)and if not put into check becomes hardwired into our brains once it becomes fully developed.as a youth minister,I've talked to alot of troubled teen,some of which were gay.majority say they have had these feelings since the age of 5 or 6.they have been influenced by what they see around them and on tv.they here gay adults tell them that it's normal and their born that way.some of them have never been with people of the members of the opposite sex.and because their first time is usually when their very young(once again before their minds are fully developed)with members of the same sex.their minds become hardwired to that way of thinking.when you tell a child that they are born that way,you take away their choice.if you wanna live that lifestyle and your happy,then by all means be happy.But don't try and force your lifestyle on me and my kids.And I'm not gonna comment on What the bible say about this,because your just going to misinterpret for your own agenda
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Nix
Interesting, however I would say you would have to indeed be gay to know that.
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Ralph J Miller
I'm afraid not,Howie:as a youth minister I've counseled troubled teen(some of which were gay)their was one teen in particular,who actually contemplated suicide.he was convinced by the lbgt community that he was born that way(that his only choice was living that lifestyle)if this is the advice your giving too our youth,then your no better than a child molesters.live your life the way you wanna live(if it makes you happy)stop trying to spread your lifestyle&negative influence on others.God gave us choice.have you actually read the entire bible.
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Marsha
Amen! Well said.
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Carol Amina
People like you Ralph Miller are one of the reasons that youth that are Gay or Trans commit Suicide! you tell them god hates what they know is there nature! why dont christians keep there noses out of others business! I dont come into your home/church and tell you that you need to accept or believe what I do! But you keep going around telling others they will go to hell if they decide to not follow your rules.
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Marsha
No one said anyone is going to hell, Carol Amina! Those are your words! No one is telling you what to believe. You have free will like everyone else. We are simply stating what we believe God intended for humanity. If all people and animals were gay there wouldn't be any offspring! I am NOT judging anyone for I too have sins. LGBT life if not easy or natural and those pressures are from within the person who is going against their own conscience. It is not anything they will burn in hell for. Only God knows what is in the heart. Suicide is a horrible thing and is NEVER the answer for anyone. God loves each of us. Only Satan himself would want anyone to commit suicide. God wants our peace and happiness and his teachings and Bible tell us how to reach those goals. No Christian or God or decent person, would EVER want anyone to commit suicide. People murder and can be forgiven if they truly repent. No one should ever believe that suicide is the answer!
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Ralph J Miller
Carol Amina: so I'm to blame.to say God hates anyone is speaking for god.not only is that harsh but very dangerous and irresponsible.But to prove a point.i simply said God gives us choice.(never said anything about God hating them)Hate is a very strong word.but i noticed how you misinterpreted my words to fit your own agenda(much like you do the bible)thank you for proving me right.
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Nix
My God is a loving God. My God makes us in his image. My God makes no mistakes. My God doesn't allow us to judge. My God created beautiful brilliant minds that have gone on to do research and come up with scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic. My God allows me to use such evidence to share with these troubled children that there is nothing "wrong" with them and they are entitled to live their life in a way that brings them happiness as long as it doesn't cause harm to another. I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to hurl unjustified insults at me. That tells me that you are a troubled person with no business counseling anyone. You sir, need counseling yourself and should stay away from young impressionable minds with your misinformation and your corrupted viewpoints. I will pray to my God that you can find peace with your God.
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Marsha
THERE IS ONLY .... ONE GOD!! The fact that you are talking about your God, my God and so forth shows how little you really know! God gave us the commandments and The Bible to guide us. He also, gave us free will. Follow him or don't. It is up to you!
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Ralph J Miller
Wow...(I'm actually speechless)that there are people out there ,who have completely lost touch with reality.obviously you feel that lifestyle is normal,so good luck with that.
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William
I think that you are in your own little world with your own God, we will certainly pray for you and hope you find your way.. Again the minds that have misinterpreted the Bible to fit their own views have no merit here.. God did not lay down his life for the sins of homosexuality... Thanks again Ralph for your wisdom on this matter.....
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Nix
William you speak as if you have God on speed dial. Many people do not use the bible for their spiritual salvation. And the many that do, many of them do not use it as a literal word of God. There are so many contradictions, that's why God created you with a brain and the ability to think critically and reason. So let's just says since we weren't there and it's pretty universally accepted that God didn't write this book, that we should use the message to guide us. The most important message is that of Jesus Christ. Believing in fire and brimstone does none of us any good. We must look at the positives...pretty matter of factly Jesus's message of love, compassion, forgiveness. Judgement and condemnation have no place in anyone's life if they are to live a healthy lifestyle. It is no one's right either.
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Nix
Yes Ralph an LGBT lifestyle is normal for members of the LGBT lifestyle. There are consenting adults hurting no one that are and rightly so, afforded the same rights everyone else enjoys. That is reality. If you don't think it is normal then don't engage in sexual relationships with members of the same sex. It's pretty simple. You can mind your own business and stop trying to act as if your lifestyle reigns supreme. It doesn't In my opinion people that judge another's lifestyle are wrong and aren't living in reality to think they have the right to do that. I will say it again, God makes no mistakes. Everyone has the right to live their lifestyle in peace. God created people that are gay, and that is okay. To think otherwise well I would ask why do you think someone would choose that lifestyle? What direct advantages would they get exactly...condemnation, rejection, scorn, shame? Yeah why wouldn't anyone choose that. Sounds like a great, peaceful way to go through life. According to your logic a straight guy about 10 or 11 years old decides to act against his feelings of attraction to girls and DECIDES not to follow that attraction and instead decides he wants all the benefits of a gay lifestyle (condemnation, rejection, scorn, shame) so he is going to make himself attracted to boys. That way of thinking is not living in reality. All because you read it in a book instead of using your God given gifts of thinking realistically. God created brilliant scientists that discover truth based on proven evidence. They is much evidence on a gay gene if you need it. I would think common sense would reign supreme, but just in case that's why we have science. God and science coexist. Science is not a liberal conspiracy!
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Amber
I'm clear he would have to be gay to know for sure, and since he clearly doesn't know, he clearly isn't gay. Clearly he is also terrified of being considered gay though. If the bible is to be believed, God sees all, within and without. True religious conviction wouldn't spill over into another person's life It wouldn't demand others be a certain way or be damned. That is between each individual and their maker alone. Live your way, let others live theirs. They are not dictating what you should be doing in bed, or who with. Don't do it to them. It really is as crystal clear as that.
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Ralph J Miller
Wow.you are so stupid
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Amber
I'm amazed and impressed with the prowess of your verbiage. Perhaps there is more fear involved than you care admit.
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Marsha
That is a rather ignorant claim Howie!
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Nix
How so Marsha? How would a straight person who obviously has no use for science, know that being gay is a choice, unless he made that choice himself?
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Marsha
Who has no use for science? I am a science major and an RN. We fall in love with those we open our hearts to. Sexual experience is a choice. I have been attracted to many who weren't right for me and chose not to go down that path. Gay or straight.... there is no difference! Both are choices. I don't know why LGBTQ don't get some guts and admit that they choose to live a certain way! It is NOT FORCED ON ANYONE!!
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Nix
You really don't have a right to speak for anyone, let alone the LGBT community, if you are not a member. To say they need guts...really? I think the situations and events in their lives that they experience, that you never have, shows they very much have guts. To think differently is ignorant and insulting as you sound as if you are superior. You are judging them. Sexual experience is a choice, attraction for the same sex is not. How would you know? Anyone who is attracted to the same or opposite sex is entitled to live and love as God intended. If a man falls in love with a man and a woman falls in love with a woman, so be it. In this country they are and should be afforded every right that a man and woman who are in love, possess. The bible is not the end all be all to everyone and in America it is not allow to be used to make laws/
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Amber
Marsha, I think you have read how Christians were persecuted at one time, put to death, punished in horrible ways. Many back then did keep quiet for fear of being tortured by those who didn't understand. Now the tables are turned. You would think those who suffered so in the past would have learned some degree of mercy and understanding, acceptance even. Many in the LGBT community do not speak up for the same reason. Hard core homophobes can be brutal and have been. I'd really like to know how much of your science was in psychology, and mental and emotional studies. I have to acknowledge that healing the sick and injured is a noble career choice. However I don't think homosexuality is often heavily focused on in that range of science, major or not.
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:I've talked to many gay people.And many of them have said they they have choosen to live that way. Their words exactly "I'll live my life the way i choose"so obviously you don't speak for the entire gay community when you say your born that way. Also upon further discussion they say people use the excuse of "Born that way "as a way of trying to normalize that lifestyle because deep down inside they feel guilty and ashamed of what their doing.which now makes alot of sense now, because all you been doing so far was trying to convince everyone else that's normal
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Vaughn Gardner
Please do pray for me. I consider that an unwelcome intrusion.
As to the other... upset... if they are making do, I believe they are living less than the life God meant for them. The scriptures held up to support that position is Jewish Law only meant for the Jews. Gentiles were never expected to live up to those laws unless conquered by Isreal. Christians were never meant to be held by those laws as Jesus is the only true complete sacrifice. While he lived, they continued to be relevant to Jewish believers. When he died the Law was fulfilled and no longer applicable to Jewish believers. Again Gentiles were never meant to be held to that standard. This is evidenced in the Book of Acts where Peter got nailed by God regarding foods.
Therefore, I am pissed for those who make do because they are being taught, as Gentile believers that they are sinning according to Old Testament law never meant for them. If you are speaking of Paul, I was taught and believe to this day that you must take scripture in the cultural context in which it was given. He was speaking of temple prostitutes, nothing more.
I also do not hold Paul's letters to be anything than letters written to the church of his time. Some of it is good advice, other of it, not so good. To say that he was inspired by God and therefore could not be wrong is to say his word is equal to Gods or the words of Jesus. Paul was a human being born 'in sin' for those who believe that, was made of all things human, which means he was imperfect. Unlike Moses who got the commandments from God;'s own mouth as it were, Paul did not. Nor was he human and God like Jesus. Therefore asking people to live their lives and make do according to anyone less than Jesus' own words is a travesty.
So yes... I hurt for them because I believe they are being led to live according to man's interpretation of scripture rather than what scripture actually teaches.
And again, do not pray for me. I specifically charge you in Jesus' Name not to do so. That would go against my free will, what I believe His will is for me, and I'm a big believer in consent and you do not have it nor do I give anyone else here that permission.
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Marsha
Are you trying to say that men with men and women with women was intended? No way this is true. God created man and woman to be united and to have children! Anything else is unnatural. It is up to each person to decide for themselves, that is free will. But, to act like this is natural and normal is ridiculous!
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William
Thank you Marsha, you have millions of Christians that feel exactly as you... Thanks and god bless
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Marsha
You are welcome.... but it is NOT just Christians who feel this way. Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Amish, Buddhist, and Hindi Religious all feel this way! I am tired of all the BS related to Christians "condemning LBGTQ". It simply isn't true. Do we believe that men and women should be together? YES ! We are simply stating what the Bible teaches. Christians have been very tolerant and many stand for LBGTQ rights. We simply don't believe as they do. God will be the only one to judge each of us. But, to keep trying to SPREAD THE LBGTQ message and the small children and others they are gay, etc. is ridiculous! No one needs to be told what they are. Many children experience same sex thoughts, etc. That DOES NOT mean they are gay, etc. I am sick of labels and recruiting methods that many use to make their LBGTQ lifestyle feel validated. Live and let live! I don't go around stating I am heterosexual.... why must LBGTQ do thi?. It is getting absolutely ridiculous!!!
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Marsha
Sorry for typos.
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William
??
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Ralph J Miller
Vaughn Gardner:you seem upset that these ex gay's(as you call them)have decided to think for themselves and follow the way as God intended for us to live.instead of being happy for them,you say they return to the closet and make-do.honestly i don't even know how to respond to your comment(it makes no sense).if your comfortable with your lifestyle,why defend it.why make any comment about anyone who walks away from that lifestyle.it's you and people like you who are insecure.so you try and corrupt young minds into believing that lifestyle is normal.If you were to put me in a room with 20 other people,and i was the only heterosexual in there.And everybody was to make fun of me because i was attracted to women.not only would i not get upset,but i wouldn't feel the need too defend my decision.Put a gay or lesbian person in that situation,they will feel different.your still young,probably lived a shelterd life,not knowing much about the real world.I've been around,I've seen things.I've faced true evil and overcame.because i live by God's word,and i know the wages of sin is death.i do not hate you or do i judge you.but i will pray for you.
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Ben
Why do so many people try to say how they think God feels about situations, lifestyles and or what sin is? The bible is so very clear on what sin is and how He feels about it and what His will for living is. He does not want us to make do. No, He wants us to live according to His will by His standards nothing less. People think that you can live however you want and still be ok with God but please be careful when you encourage this behavior or follow it cuz that could very well cost you your soul or somebody else's. Jesus says over and over if you love me you'll obey my commandments. Also you will know who belongs to me by who does my will. He gives us free will to choose how we live but warns us the consequences for our choice. We all were born into sin and our nature is to want to sin whether it be lying, cheating, being selfish, wanting to do our own will, giving into lust whether it's in a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual one. All choices have a consequence no matter if you think you're born that way or not. Heterosexuals still have a responsibility to live the right way. They can't have sex with anyone they want or with how many they want. Even tho we were born with that desire. We are to save ourselves for our spouse only. I know that seems ridiculous these days but that's how God intended it to be. If you truly know God and His word you would not argue in defense that it's ok to live however we want and say He is ok with that. That's a very dangerous state of mind to have and is the exact meaning of sin.
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Gary
People do not choose to be homosexual anymore than you choose to be heterosexual. Stop trying to ram you religious beliefs onto everyone else. If you don't like Gay marriage, don't have one. And for those of you who stand by the Bible as never having been changed, I hope you are adhering to all 613 laws given in the Old Testament. Of which only 2 came directly from God. And you should question your love of your fellow man if you say I love you but you are going to hell and will support laws to take away your acceptance in society and you civil rights.
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Ralph J Miller
Gsl2727....one can simply say no to that lifestyle.i choose to be heterosexual.(always been attracted to women)partly because i grew up in a normal environment.if someone offers you drugs,you have a choice YES or NO.to say your born that way is an excuse used by the weak minded.you know who else uses that excuse....CHILD MOLESTERS.answer me this...if it's not a choice,how come many former gay people have decided to live their lives as a heterosexual,started famlies and are happy with their decision.So if it wasn't a choice,how were they able to change their lifestyle.when you tell kids that at a young age,they buy into that.(that they have no choice,that they are who they are)so when they become so depressed(because they actually start to believe that they actually were born that way,and it's nothing they can do about it) that they hurt themselves,the gay community is quick to blame religion,when the blood is actually on their hands.you will never ever convince everyone into accepting that lifestyle,as long as your in the open you will always have opposition,because the future of our children are at stake
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
So you were born attracted to women? I just clarification?
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Ralph J Miller
Mistydawn...no i was not born attracted to women,nor was i born attracted to men.I'm going to assume that your young.your way of thinking is not entirely your fault.I'm old school,i was raised in a conservative family.before 24 hour cable tv.(when television would actually shut off at 10:30)there was no gay rights movement(telling kids that it was ok to be different)there was no sex on tv.their wasn't gay celebrities telling people that lifestyle was ok.their were no tv programs or movies depicting the gay lifestyle.As i grew older i was attracted to women because it was normal.and because as a youth i was not constantly bombarded by gay propaganda.a few years ago my young son asked me"why is homosexuality considered an act of sin in the bible,but our government supports gay marriage in our country"what do you tell a child,when there's groups of people out their trying to poison their young minds.(from people who try and misinterprete the bible for their own gay agenda)my boy is 13 and he is attracted to girls(his choice.he could have choose boys,farm animals,or even his own kin folks)but he choose girls.because i raised him up normal.to make his own decisions,not based on what he see's other people doing or what he see's on tv.you have a choice.stop letting other people tell you that your born that way.start thinking for yourself and grow up
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
Mr. Miller I think I should respond to you in the most polite way possible. Yes, sir I am a lowly 24 years old. Yes sir, I understand you were raised in a conservative family before 24hour television. I was raised with a generation that had the world at their fingertips. It's really to bad I spent most of my childhood reading books on ancient lands with kings who were fair and just. Like le morte darthur, and also of men who put logic in all of his reasoning like the famous Sherlock Holmes. My family did not have the comforts to claim we followed the sociable fads, as most of what I owned was handmedowns. I forged myself and my own thought processes through the only education available to me. But thank you for raising your own with unconditional love.
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Marsha
SO MISTY DAWN.....are you saying you weren't born attracted to the same sex?? You can't have it both ways! Were pedophiles born attracted to children? I think many life choices are due to life experiences. Do I blame or judge? NO. But, I am tired of hearing " I was born this way". Was a prostitute " born that way"? NO. CHOICES.... we all have free will and choices. We can decide how we wish to live. Do we choose to commit adultry, or choose to be loyal.... do we choose to do whatever our sexual desires direct... or do we decide to restrict ourselves to certain behaviors? Do we steal when we are tempted or do we resist? CHOICES..... it is all about choices! What you choose is your business, but PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE! It is a cop-out!
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Nix
Just so I understand Marsha, you at one point contemplated being attracted to men verses being attracted to women? What made you choose to be attracted to men? Please enlighten us all on the entire process of your choice and decision.
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
Mam, thank you for calling out on me so I can respond to your kind and thought provoking comment. I personally believe that all feelings or emotions rather stem from different chemicals in our brains. As example through reading your post where you albeit play devil's advocate my brain processes a certain word and responded with anger. I believe we choose how we act on our emotions and if someone is having urges sexually for someone yes it must be reigned in check especially when children are involved and if no reciprocal feelings are attached. Thank you for reminding me about my own molester was claiming when I FINALLY had the courage to stand against him. There is a lot of information in our DNA that we don't know about yet. Like the Warrior gene that causes a predisposition for aggression. But what do I know? I guess you should have to pay for love with bones and flesh... you know what they say Hell is for children.
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Vaughn Gardner
If they consider themselves ;ex-gay' then they were never gay to begin with. Rather they were bisexuals who came to terms with having an attraction to the same gender but found they preferred to a greater extent opposite gender. The Kinsey scale is quite accurate when it comes to our attractions. Many are on one polar point or the other while the rest of us are somewhere inbetween. This would explain why these so called 'ex-gays have found happiness with opposite gender mates.
But let us be clear. Most so called ex-gays are now just regular gays or practicing bisexuals. It's never been a point of curing or healing someone of their same sex attraction but rather just clarifying what it really is. If someone calls themselves ex-gay but their same gender attraction remains as strong as ever, that will not change. They will instead return to the closet and 'make do'. Making do is not living, it is existing and I fully believe God never meant for us to 'make do'.
I recommend living your life according to the dictates of your heart and your own interpretation of what God expects. When or if Judgment Day comes, He will sort it out and weigh your heart, not your pastor, not the evangelist, not your neighbor, not your family member, and certainly not a stranger, but God. In the end, He is the one that counts, not the others.
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Faith Pigeon
Chaplin: Faith Pigeon Garder: Thank you so much for your post. Because you're right, God is the only one who really Counts.
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Ralph J Miller
Now ben,when you worry about what people do behind closed doors,that is judging.(unless their hurting some one,it's nobody else's business)you can't argue bible verses with them.they already know what the bible says about homosexuality.but they will argue with you,and say the bible's been mistranslated.and twist every thing around.they do this because deep down inside they know their lifestyle is wrong.So misquoting the bible is the only way they can justify their lifestyle.
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Ben
Thank you William for your kind words and may God bless you! Ralph, it's amazing how we interpret judging or judgment. It's ok to live however we want unless it's hurting someone else? Then it's not judging? We all judge all the time. We judge our servers at restaurants and markets. We judge movies by the actors and acting. We judge who we feel comfortable with when looking for a service. We judge who is right for our kids whether it's for a friend or a relationship. We judge churches and pastors to find the one we feel most comfortable with. I think most would agree that it's not necessarily a bad thing in these situations. But on the topic of homosexuality most would say Christians are judgmental cuz we don't agree with the lifestyle according to the word of God. We are not allowed to have our own beliefs cuz it's wrong and judgmental but isn't that exactly how we're being treated? Judged for our lifestyle and beliefs? I apologize for being so long winded I just feel this topic can be so one sided. I also apologize to anyone who has been mistreated for being a homosexual especially if it's from a Christian. That is definitely not ok with our Father in Heaven. We can disagree with choices but still need to show Christ's love to everyone! May His love be obvious to us all. Amen!
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Grace G
Oh Sweet Jesus! So many want God's job! They? They are my brothers and sister's who share the same dream's of happiness and love that I do. Peace
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William
Thank you Ben for your holy wisdom, lord be with you !!!
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Ben
It baffles me to hear so many people argue and defend homosexuality by misusing the bible. God is very clear on what love is and is not. He is very clear on what is sin as well. We cannot say it doesn't matter what people do behind closed doors that it's their business only, that's where drug use, rape, murder, and others just like domestic violence and child abuse happens. God is loving and forgiving yes but He is also an equally just and holy God too. Remember why Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed? Men wanting to have sex with other men. Even Lot's wife became a pillar of salt for not obeying the Lord. It's way easier for us to live our lives thinking we can do whatever we want cuz God will forgive us anyways but remember as much as He is a forgiving God, He is a Righteous and Just and Holy God! We are definitely to love each other like Jesus loved. He loved us so much that He came to earth to show us how to live then He died for all our sins so we can have a relationship with God the Father. He wants us to live a certain way that's why we have the bible. Sin interferes with our relationship with God. Remember our loving and forgiving God kicked Satan out of heaven cuz of sin. We don't get to decide what is right and wrong. We don't set the standard of living....only God the creator does!!! All said in love.
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William
Also agree with you Rick
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Reverend Erika
Very interesting article, I think freedom & respect of others choices in life that are positive to their true expressions of self and overall quality of life (those around them) - I'm all for it! Blessings, Love, & Peace to All, Minister Erika
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Rick Renwick
Yes, we all have privileges and rights. We are all equal in God's eyes. But, God cannot and will not allow sin to enter his Holy Gates. Repentance is the only way there. Faith in Christ Jesus. God wrote The Bible for our benefit, not his. Adhering to his laws makes only makes sense. We Europe made in his image and God do
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Ralph J Miller
Very well spoken.Rick
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
Then he without sin cast the first stone. And God didn't write the bible. If he had the Pagan religion you had to hide from for millennia would have destroyed it. The religions you condemn and get self righteous over your precious holidays which were taken from the Pagan holidays. The last time I checked the Christian LGBTQ did accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. However you want to keep your privileges to only the side that follows your beliefs. If you want to follow the dictates of the bible to the letter please halt the celebration of the following days: Easter, it is also known as a pagan holiday called Ostara; May Day it is a holiday originally called Beltane; Halloween or ALL HALLOW'S EVENING it's called Samhain and it's the Pagan equivalent to the new year; winter solstice, it's called YULE. And while you are going through all the Pagan symbols you have adopted into the faith stop burning a Yule log, and putting up a Christmas tree all have origins in the Pagan Faiths, and I'd like to keep the sanctity of those holy days. P.s. Stop saying tying the knot when getting married. It's also rooted in the Pagan religion. It's called Handfasting. I'm sure you know of it.
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Dr. Minister
As a Pagan Minister, I have to say. My faith does not believe homosexuality or transgenders violate any so called "moral laws". The only being that can judge a persons self worth is themselves, and that is how it should be. I cannot tell someone how to live their life. If someone is homosexual, Good for them! I wish them a happy and joyful life. If someone is transgender, I hope they find eternal happiness, and the Mother Goddess and Father God look down on them along with their ancestors in admiration. In the animal kingdom, There are other species of animals besides humans that exhibit homosexuality and transgender behaviors. It is another biological principle that is a factor in life. We simply have to accept it, Biology is Biology, everyone is unique down to their last gene. To say someone is immoral based off of one point of view, from a book a majority of the worlds population doesn't even live by or care to, is absurd. Everyone is entitled to their own happiness, Facts cannot be disputed. Blessed Be all. Have a wondrous day, May the Goddess or God assist you with good energy and love.
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Rick Renwick
Your nuts, pardon my French. Mother Goodness . Where did you find that in the Bible. Romans , chapter 1 speaks of homosexuality as a sin along with Corinthians and 1 Peter. There are consequences to your actions here on earth. God gave us a free will because he wanted obidience. Not robots. You can choose to worship God or Satan. Follow Gods lead of Databs. Visit Hell for eternity or visit Heaven. I'll choose Heaven. Thanks,
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
Renwick, the minister you are responding to didn't look up his belief in a book that has gone through so many edits and rewrites that it could be considered the world's longest game of telephone. I do not consider you nuts or a cannibal worshipping a zombie. I do consider you to be an opinionated gentleman that might want to learn some manners when reading and commenting. I wonder if you have ever read the story by C.S. Lewis the Chronicals of Narnia. I would like to suggest you do. Most importantly the Last Battle. Maybe then you will learn to see things through another's perspective. In response to the comment about obedience. If that was god's true desire we would have been robots what God wanted was to be loved, or that's at least what I was told during my practically indoctrinated childhood.
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Marsha
Animals do not display gay behaviors! If you are talking about male dogs humping other males.... that is just a display of dominance! They don't actually have sexual relations! Such ignorance!
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Nix
According to Natural History Museum, University of Oslo, Norway, homosexual activity has been observed in at least ,1500 species. It has been documented in Bagemihl, Bruce (1999). Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity. There are plenty of other studies that have documented, I would think you a a science major will understand and appreciate this. Animals have no need for protestant beliefs.
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Amber
Actually they do. Not only within their own species but outside of it too. You telling me you haven't ever seen a dog hump someone's leg?
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John Owens
I wouldn't trust Johns Hopkins for this, or any other scientific research, whether dealing with animals or humans. I think this is most likely just a heavily biased, politically charged phony wishful thinking feel-good "study". Johns-Hopkins belongs to that group of pseudo-intellectuals who think you can make something true by making others BELIEVE it is true. Gay marriage has not been legal for long enough for any difference in the suicide rate among people who are too young to marry anyway to be noticeably affected or measured. That would take decades. That is why this is hokum. If people with agendas would used real science, their results might be respected. If it makes you feel encouraged, well, just live it up. If you prefer to analyze, though, you will know there is no way this could be accurately, scientifically done.
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RT
We are all people; period! We are born, and we all die. What happens in between makes NO ONE any better than anyone else. Anyone who thinks differently is a Hypocrite; period. We ALL deserve the SAME rights and privilages.
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Wayne Bowlby
Not only are people alienated from Society by denying rights adults should have, but issues such as health care, retirement, etc. are a mess. This effects people mentally and psych ally. It is a practice that is up to individuals and society has no place to judge in my opinion. I know pressures on families without the added pressure being placed on individuals for their feelings anndroid beliefs. Wayne Bowlby Fort Collins, CO 80525
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JA
I'm 100% for gay rights, to me it's just another expression of being born with a preference and being able to find the person you love without castrates just as a straight person does. I'm not gay, I've never been attracted to a man, and I'll even admit I'm sure I don't know about the bible as much as many others here. Rather than argue, I'd rather just let those who are against gay people say anything they want, because what they say is so ridiculous it makes an argument for being gay or different because we are all loved the same amount by God. Don't forget the bible also says "He who does not love his brother cannot love God and he who loves God cannot love his brother." and so far as I know there isn't a note in the margin of the bible that says "Unless you are gay" does anyone have a bible with that little notation on the side and a note reading "edited by God" ?
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Jamar
Consider this, was the labeling "gay rights" a separation of rights already in place for everyone counterproductive in the first place. It is like it creates more separation for rights we are all "supposed" to be entitled to.
Sesh Per Ankh Jamar Hotep
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Jamar
What I do not understand is why there is a belief that recognizing the rights of others is breaking the law or illegal. The government should be sued and all people who suffer violations of their rights should be paid reparations. The United States is a free country yet "We the people" seek out to violated the rights of others forgetting GOD's law of "Do Unto Others As Done Unto Self". The religious are just hypocrites. No one has to ask or be allowed to get married regardless of how anyone interprets the bible that is their right. Even if an organization does not support it they should organize their own instead of seeking again to violate what another believes. We are taught we have the same freedoms and protections(.) Is that not constitutional!? It is a vicious cycle!
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Ralph J Miller
There is a difference between having rights and wanting special privilege.the lbgt doesn't want rights but special privilege.during the days of segregation,when you had to use the public bathrooms&water fountains according to one's skin color.that could be considered special privilege for some and rights taken away for some.(we all have the right to use public facilities) As a man i have the right to use the man's bathroom.what i don't have is the right to go use the women's bathroom while women are in there.women have the right to use the bathroom without the fear of men walking in on them.when you cry about not being able to use the bathroom of your choice because you no longer accept the gender in which you were born,that's not violating your rights.it's violating ours.when a boy decides he wants to walk in on my daughter while she's in the bathroom,then you've violating her rights.it's not rights you want it's special privilege.a man and a woman have the right to get married(always been like that,since the beginning of time)but now people want to marry the same gender.this is something new(i don't remember any history books containing any same sex marriage)you wanna change things,and try to force us into accepting this behavior.SPECIAL PRIVILEGE
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William
Thanks again Ralph!!
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Nix
It's unfortunate some of you feel that way. Pedophiles are not born that way, they have mental defects or vary many times have been molested themselves. Comparing homosexuality to pediphelia is sick and wrong and scientifically proven inaccurate. When you infringe on the rights of children and cause harm, you are breaking the law. That is a crime, the LGBT community are just trying to live their lives as anyone does. Love between them is love between consenting adults. They are allowed to live openly just as anyone else. There are no special rights, they seek equal rights. No one here or anywhere has the right to say it's not natural or recorded in history so it's not okay. If God made someone gay, then it is natural to them. Shame on anyone who has the audacity to take it upon themselves to think your opinion which I see many here do not base on fact or science, reigns supreme, that is casting judgement. If you say you are Christian then you are in direct conflict with what you are taught to believe. The teachings of Christ is the base of Christianity. It can be argued with science and facts the much of the Old Testament is baseless fables. As a follower of Christ, I only focus on His guidance and teachings. If I am wrong and He wasn't the Son of God, well what have I lost. He is still a great role model and someone to emulate. This is the reason some many people have left traditional religions. It is the deep hypocrisy that turns people away. As ministers we are to welcome everyone and guide them toward light and eternal salvation. I pray that anyone that judges their fellow man, and condemns (and yes that is a form of hate) will have a change of heart and stop playing God. It's dangerous and wrong. My prayers are with you. And I never said I was LGBT. I am a supporter a basic human rights.
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Ralph J Miller
I'm not understanding.do they not have the same rights as every one else? Are they not our equal? Oh that's right.they form a group,put a label on themselves and want more rights....or is it special privilege
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Nix
They have formed a group because of oppression. Much like the NAACP, the demand their entitled human rights. What special rights are you thinking off? Not sure where you're getting this idea,
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:your so confused and brainwashed.the civil rights movement was about the color of skin.you want special rights or special privilege over sexual preference.that's like saying"I like cheese,i shouldn't have to pay for milk"you already have the same rights as everyone else
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Nix
Ralph the point of my comparison was oppression. You or someone said LGBT band together in a group marching around demanding rights. My comparison was minorities that have spent years and years being oppressed find banding together is how to achieve equality. The LBGT movement is similar to that movement in that way. The personal demographics aren't the same but the cause is. People coming from hundreds of years of oppression to gain equal treatment. That was my point, please don't tell me you could not figure that out. Or are you choosing to ignore the point and instead choosing to deflect? You are pulling the obvious color of skin verses sexuality difference to digress from the real point of oppression suffered by most minorities. If you are going to argue a point, then you cannot try and spin. It's especially easy to catch you in a spin when it's typed out as opposed to being verbal. So to answer your question, the LGBT community bands together to fight oppression and gain equal rights. That is how they achieved marriage equality and the few anti discrimination laws that are on the books. "The squeaky wheels gets the juice." It's written about over and over and over again in any history book. Now let's address the special rights you claim that the LGBT coomunity is looking for. What are they exactly?
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Amber
Um, no... Equal rights means equal across the board. Man or woman, race, religion, same gender or no. Privilege means one group gets to decide and choose for everyone else and to exclude people simply by not believing the same way as that one group. You deciding a couple cant get married because you feel its wrong according to your view through biblical teaching is a choice of privilege, not equality. Save it for people who kill and steal and let people who know real love be blessed, same gender or not.
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Hrh Prince Guglielmo Rinaldini
Relativism is not the solution. Didnt discriminate this people it dont mean consider them in perfect mental good health. It is in the facts that they are having problems. It is a real condition that is an attraction among same sex, among the same mean no difference, mean no effort, mean no development, mean no babies (and for this motive now is the rent of reproductive organs and the market of the sperm).
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Amber
What I find unfortunate is that the author doesn't seem to distinguish between religions or even different sects in various religions. There are some Christian churches that do accept people who are clearly loving individuals and boons to their community and church as legitimate in their sexual orientation. They are consenting adults and not forcing themselves on anyone else. The are not demanding anyone else be gay or trans or anything else. They do not cause anyone any harm by the choices they make or the feelings and desires they have, or by who they are internally. They made peace with God just as anyone else of strong faith does to be who they are without forcing anyone else to be the same. Those that I've personally known and talked to really don't even wish it on anyone else but more to just be accepted as human beings just trying to get by in this world, just like everyone else. To try to force someone to be something they are not, especially when who they are doesn't cause anyone else any harm, it is seriously damaging to that person. When people are severely enough damaged, suicide, homicide, drug use and abuses of all kinds rise dramatically. You want to fix this world? Start with being kinder and more accepting. Start by seeing where the real damages are and working on those. Violent crimes need to be addressed a lot more earnestly.
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Nix
That is the most intelligent post I've read on here. I applied you Amber Fry
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Nix
Sorry I applaud you, that is
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chuck ream
Thumbs up!
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Marie
"Love one another as I have loved you" Judge lest ye be judged, My Christian beliefs are in the loving soul God gave me, the one that distinguishes from right and wrong. The one that tells me when you use religion as an excuse to harm, hate, kill or judge people, it's wrong no matter what religion you are. I beleive God gave you a soul to be able to distinguish between what is meant to be good or evil.
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Marsha
AMEN
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Gary Evans
The bible says man and woman in a marriage.Gay marriage is a send before God.
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William
Thank you Gary, I'm not alone
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Duncan
Poor Billy Lucas what he must have gone through. He died as a result of other people's condemnation of who he was, such a tragic waste of a young life. God is never portrayed by many Christians as unconditional love but as a wrathful, vengeful punisher of sin, content to send all non believers and sinners to hell for an eternity of torture. Of course I think that most of these individuals have created God in their own sociopathic image. Well this young man lived in hell, I truly pray that his soul finds the peace that he could never find on earth.
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Preacher Jim
God is unconditional LOVE. But he gives us the free will choice of how to live our lives and if that choice is to turn from God and the teachings of Jesus, we are told in no uncertain words that we will be cast into the lake of fire. I think that is made very clear in the Word. We are called to love all in the name of Christ but we are not called to condone the behavior of all when that behavior does not conform with the teachings of the Word. I recently read a book, "Compassion without Compromise" which gave, what I thought, was a good path for churches to deal with homosexuality.
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B
I think gay marriage is fine and there is nothing wrong with it, it is not a sin at all what so ever.
Is love a sin? No.
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William
Always thought of it as Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve... Again my opinion, I'm entitled to the same as you are, but know your probably quite outnumbered on this one..
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
I wouldn't bet on it. From what I've seen of the United State's population many people are accepting of the other. I'm no expert but I do have to point out that most of the people stepping against gay marriage are the same over and over. Like a patient mother the people in support of the LGBTQ is waiting for the screaming to stop. But only my opinion...
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William
They are tolerant of it, not accepting of it, there is a difference
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Abby
True... William!
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Amber
No, not these days. More and more people are accepting and going about their own lives. It was Adam and Eve for procreative reasons. These days you don't even need a significant other if you so choose to have a child. See a doctor and screen donors. Marriage and a stress on procreation isn't as needed as it once was. Medicine keeps more women alive through childbirth and treats preemies successfully so survival rates are much higher. Two people deciding to share their lives together, gay or straight, is much more about love than it ever was. People have been realizing that for some time now.
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William
Marie, nothing wrong with Ralph, you will find that many millions of people feel like Ralph including me. What decisions one makes is clearly not mine, but don't shove this kind of thinking down ones throats and think it should be considered acceptable.. I'm curious to know what you think about the Muslim faith??? Do you agree with the laws in which they are governed?? Are you true in your Christianity?? You know that they truly hate you, correct?? Or should we misinterpret the readings of the Karan? They are a loving religion!!??
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Marie
Seriously Ralph! It is indeed that kind of ignorance and ideals that is the problem with society today. Parents are lazy and don't teach their children respect for any human being! Teaching your children to be kind to people is not difficult and accepting that its just the way kids are is ridiculous. It really does sound like you have an issue and it is within yourself, accepting is not about saying you don't have an issue with it, but knowing it in your heart. If you don't know someone is gay, then it doesn't exist and it's not what people do in there bedroom, that is the issue it is indeed who they love. The problem is that a young LGBT individual falls in love with someone of the same sex and is scared to admit it or go after what it is as teenagers that rules our lives at that point in time. To be scared to talk to your parents the people who are supposed to guide you through this life is absurd, loving unconditionally is what a parent is supposed to do, When they don't accept you, noone will and that is what the issue is, trying to hide from your feelings and the overwhelming sadness of feeling alone. That is the reason for the suicide rate, and it is the continued acceptance that is helping. NOT WHO YOU CHOOSE TO BE IN YOUR BEDROOM WITH.
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Ralph J Miller
Marie.i have friends who are gay.i don't judge,but do not accept their lifestyle.i don't agree with it.it's like having friends with different political views.nobody really cares what you do behind close doors.stop trying to force that lifestyle on people
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Deborah Latona
Ralph, No disrespect however you need to practice what you preach " Stop trying to force a lifestyle on other people" we are all gods children and he makes all things perfect. Your feelings matter however we all need to let god judge because in the end its between you and him. You say you have gay friends and you do not judge but do not accept their lifestyle? your not accepting their life style so really you are judging, That is my opinion.
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Ralph J Miller
How is that judging,if i don't agree with that lifestyle.i know people who steal,i don't judge them.i know what they do is wrong(i don't do it,wasn't raised that way)that's my opinion.i have a right to my opinion.
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Abby
Yes!
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Thomas
As a father of two gay boys and a deep seated religious belief, GOD made us they way we are. The Bible states that we are not to judge others that he will. Jesus said we should love all as we love ourselves. The Bible also talked about fake churches, fake teachers, and others that will try and teach us false things. If you pray for GOD to interpret the Bible as you read it, then he will show you what HE wants you to understand from the Bible. To me a TRUE church will welcome and love everyone that comes into their church to hear what is said, even if it's just a little bit. That might receive just enough that it helps them. We do need to educate the people and even some of our churches to understand.
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Not a Sheeple
I'm glad I'm not brainwashed by the majority! Let's reward a perverted lifestyle. It's UN- natural. I guess in the next twenty years you same people will have the same feeling for pedophiles also. Remember they were born that way! They can't help it that they are attracted to little children.. Liberalism is a mental disorder. God help you all.
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William
And that is exactly what they are pushing for... It called the NWO.. The Catholic Church is even accepting this type of behavior....
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Chill Draggon
Not a sheeple, You are a good hater, though. Seems to me that Jesus was a liberal, given his preaching and the people with whom he consorted. Perhaps a sheeple is one who emulates him and the others are the ones with, as you say, a mental disorder.
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Marsha
As a Christian, I accept and love all people. Even those who commit great sins as murder, adultry and blasphemy of God. That does not mean I endorse their sins. God told us in the scriptures to love each other as ourselves. That love is different from our sexual/sensual needs. No where does God/Jesus endorse or support prostitution, men with men or women with women! What we fail to discuss here is the demoralization caused by these practices. Also, rectal sexual practices spread diseases like AIDS! So does intravenous drug use. It simply is NOT healthy nor do these practices forfill God's plan for men and women to unit as one and produce offspring ( the real purpose of sexual behavior ). God gives us free will. Many times we go against God's will for us and commit sins. In our souls WE ALL KNOW when we are going against the Holy Spirit. Our subconscious speaks to us! When we continue down these paths against the spirit.... many terrible things result. Suicide is only one of those things. It is again FREE WILL to do such a thing or not. To turn to Christ and pray for help is another choice. It is not for anyone but God to judge. But, our subconsciousness tends to convict us. Christ loves all and forgives all. Only Our Lord can save us.
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Marsha
Jesus associated with sinners to win them over to God the Father. Jesus asked all his followers to turn from their sins and follow him to God the Father. He forgave them and said " now go and sin no more". He didn't say sin all you want and I will let you follow me to heaven!
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Ralph J Miller
This world would be a better place if everyone worried about their own problems.but when people choose to live that lifestyle openly,they set themselves up for ridicule.there are some that don't agree with that lifestyle,it's when they try to force their lifestyle on others that causes problems
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William
100% correct Ralph, thanks for sharing your wisdom... William
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Jay Kleine
Wisdom to some, yet more exclusionary dogma and rhetoric to others...
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Chill Draggon
Wisdom? Those openly in the LGBT lifestyle I'm acquainted with deal with the same up and downs the rest of us do. Like non-LGBTs, they are following their bliss as Joseph Campbell would say. Where's the wisdom in homophobia or fear of the 'not like me' people? Last I checked, we're all god's people.
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Abby
We are all God's people! Do you mean those trying to live by God's rules? LGBTIQ seem to be very judgmental of God, religion, the religious and anyone who isn't LGBTIQ on this particular site! Sadly, many finger pointers and no real tolerance or acceptance on either side exhibited here!
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Nix
"LGBTIQ seem to be very judgmental..." a complete generalization. FALLACY! To defend a lifestyle that hurts no one, from the awful condemnation going on here is not in any way judging anyone. It's standing up to ridicule and hypocrisy both of which are very ungodlike. The whole "your must believe as I do or you're trying to shove your beliefs down my throat" rhetoric coming from so many so called "religious" people on here is just plain tired and unjustifiable. Trying to turn around the obvious lack of substance and trying to pin it on the opposing view, that's on old trick. But it's not working. The minority on here are not the ones with the venom coming out in the form of text. Also you must admit "religion" struck first. A good number of members in the LGBT community are turned off from God bc all they know of God is the hateful condemnation they have received by so many churches. So many church have made it quite known gays are not welcomed there. To not acknowledge that is simply ignorant. Ask anyone in that community that speaks ill of religion if you don't or can't believe it. They have been taught by these sanctimonious parasites that "God hates gays." I'm not saying anyone with an opposing viewpoint is point blank wrong and should think the way I think. It's not my business what you do or do not have to answer to. I just don't believe anyone can justify their beliefs as being noble and living as God intended when you are sitting in judgement of others. I don't think any LGBT person on here has judged anyone. If anything it has been and keeps coming from the other side. "The bible says, or my deity say, it's written that... homesexuality is a sin blah blah blah..." so because someone somewhere wrote it down in a book and is been indoctrinated in you since birth, you have to believe it? Even though it's vile and hurtful, you instead believe THAT over the need to love your fellow man? Which so many here are claiming to do. It's just lazy to just accept something because you are told it to be true. You are here in this life to have a journey, to question and find the truth. Many religions leader are good faithful, pious people. But many are in it for the power, money, greed, and use the bible to justify hatred. Faith is a very personal thing and spirituality should be an unending journey of self discovery. Blind faith is dangerous, I mean anyone can say they are God or are spoken to by God or are the second coming. I mean look at David Koresh, or Marshall Applewhite, or Jim Jones or hell, even Charles Manson. They all used the bible or proclaimed to be a prophet or God or Jesus in some way. Just look how it turned out for their followers. There is no instruction book, you take the good from whatever tool of inspiration you find and use it to help you be the best to yourself and fellow man and you leave the negative fire and brimstone behind. God gave you a gift to think critically and use reason and logic. Don't insult Him by not using your blessings.
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Alyx Fraust
Yet if people were treated equally as Christ did, there wouldn't be "that lifestyle" as you put it to worry about, it would be just people caring about people.
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Abby
Howie..... I have spoken kindly and acceptingly to you. You are spewing hate, venom and ignorance in your rant above. I am sorry if you have been hurt by people you thought to be religious. You can't lump all religious into one group. You became irate when I spoke of LBGTIQ as a group who also has many judgmental and hateful people. You sir, are very closed minded in your thinking. You are not the kind, accepting person you pretend to be. Many false prophets exist and have existed. That is warned in the religious books and Bibles. Look at the deeds of a person to see what is in their heart. Look at the way they accuse others for their problems in life. CHOICES..... we all make them. Some are good for us and some not so good. We each are free to decide for ourselves. Peace and love. Have a great day.
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Nix
I have spoken nothing of the kind, you seem to try to spin. Venom and ignorance, what post are you misreading. You need to stop the spin, you're honestly not good at it when the posts straight up prove what you're saying has no basis.
Don't judge me nor.any same sex couple. You do t have the right and itt comes off as hypocritical, being a supposed Buddhist. I have a lot of respect for the Dalai Lama but I'm not sure you do. Treat your fellow man with love and do not judge. You continue to judge me although you don't know me. You judge by my lifestyle. You don't know my lifestyle. If you think same sex relationships are wrong then don't get into a same sex relationship. But don't get on a high horse and tell me and others that it is wrong. It's wrong for you but don't try and enforce your judjemebtsl views on me or anyone else. It's not warranted, nor invited and surely goes against your belief system.-
Abby
Howie..... You are a sadly misinformed person with major issues. I am trying to speak intelligently to you, but you digress to accusations the same way you did earlier with a doctor and an RN on this same site. You need a support group and counseling to rid yourself of all this hate, mistrust and anger. I have 2 degrees in psychology and theology. I am working on my doctorate in psychiatry. I am not trying to argue with small minded people. I am a person of color! I don't care for the term black. I don't care for discrimination of any kind. Thanks.
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Nix
Abby just because someone is a doctor, which no one knows is true or, not to mention a doctor of what, or a RN which I do believe to be true, does not make them the authority on LGBT suicides, marriage equality, same sex relationships or me. Higher education is not limited to school. My higher education involved studying, researching, working in the field, working in internships on topics needed to complete my line of profession, but the bigger education came from life. I approached life with an open mind looking to each person as someone that has a story to tell and if it works out, someone who could share that story with me, so that my education nevers stops. But a degree in and of itself is only proof that you have completed all courses in a field of study. It's like being rich is equated with being part of the upper class in society, but it does not guarantee class as far as one's character. Life and integrity is the real teacher, student relationship, and it is ongoing. A degree can fall into accord with that but life's lessons are the real teacher. I don't put any value in anyone's psychological evaluation of me on a forum on the internet. If I had issues it would show in daily work, interpersonal relationships and I'd likely have legal issues in my life as well. These people are simply trying to use their ignorance on matters far bigger than what they encounter in their little bubble and they are trying to turn it into "something is wrong with him because he don't think like us, bubba." That line of thinking holds zero validity to me. I've seen it and heard it many times. Then there is the whole "but I have several gay friends." Yeah okay someone that does your hair, or your gardener, your tailor or a youth that has confided to you that they are gay but they have been told they are going to hell...yeah, uh huh. No that doesn't count. I'm willing to bet that very few if any on here that has said that, has actually have had a gay couple to their house, or gone to a sporting event or concert with their gay friend, gone to dinner or happy hour after work with their gay coworker. Knowing someone who is gay is not having a gay friend to where you have talked to them and exchanged experiences or beliefs. Another example of taking the easy way out as so many here chose to do. I'm prime example. No one has heard me out and responded with "I understand why you say and believe they way you do and XXX is why I say and believe the way I do. It has been be defending condemnation then the lions proceeded to pounce. Ha, maybe their way of getting back at the Romans. Furthermore, I do not hate anyone, I do hate ignorance in the form of condemnation and judgement of another. Especially when people misuse God as a justification for it. I get passionate which drives my defensiveness. I doesn't get me angry. I don't know these people and do not care enough to trust or mistrust, or to let it get me angry. I wish them well as my fellow man and give them my love and compassion but I don't let their beliefs affect my live. I love my life as it is but the majority attitude on this entire forum is coming from fundamentalism, which unfortunately tells me that nothing has changed with them nor can you get them to open up their minds and use intelligent thinking. It doesn't upset me, it drives me. Passion and anger though can overlap are not the same emotions as I'm sure you know. It is unfortunate that as society progresses, fundamentalism that justifies and even preaches contempt has not changed. Even as the majority of Americans, the overwhelming majority of millennials, even the majority of millennial protestants support marriage equality and equal rights for all, there is still the gen X'ers and baby boomer fundamentalists who still deny the existence of homosexuality as a naturally born part of a person. It's not a wonder that church membership continues to rapidly decline. I wish you well with your studies, I only hope you can put your religious convictions on the shelf with your patients. You will likely at one time or another run into a patient who is gay or transgender and I would hate for your council of someone in need to turn into preaching your religious beliefs. I hope your further study in science will help you to separate the two. A positive belief system would benefit you immensely when working with patients, but a belief system that includes condemnation of others can muddy the waters. Even the Dalia Lama said,"from a Buddhist point of view, men-to-men and women-to-women is generally considered sexual misconduct.From society's viewpoint, mutually agreeable homosexual relations can be of mutual benefit, enjoyable and harmless. But even saying that, he agreed to meet with gay Buddhist leaders, so maybe that's a start. Have a good weekend, and again this is all text so my tone gets lost. But I honestly mean you no disrespect.
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Nix
Brother Ralph every child of God has the right to openly live their lifestyle freely and without judgement, condemnation or hate, unless it infringes on another's rights, health and own lifestyle. God created beautiful people of all lifestyles, celebrate diversity and invite them into your ministry. If you have judgement or even I dare say hate in your heart, then you should step down until you evaluate your own life. God created all in His own image. Everyone has beauty and has God's love. His son came to us to preach that very code. I do not respond to chastise you or change your views. But I will pray for you and others that can't find love in their heart for those that are different. LGBT are our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters. We should stand proudly by their side as we are followers of Christ! The world is a tough place for all and really tough for that community because there are still thoughts that are openly expressed like yours. We need not to do God's work, we have not that right. We do have as ministers, the right to love and accept all mankind. The LGBT need allies, much as the blacks did in the 50's and 60's. We should learn from history and put ourselves on the right side of it. What the world and our country needs now more than ever, is more love!
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Ralph J Miller
Howie...i hear you.I'm reminded of an old saying"wanna make god laugh,tell him your plans for your future"we all have a purpose in life.God wants us to be happy.the bible is simply a blueprint of how to live by his word.when people contemplate suicide,turn to drugs&alcohol or do anything else that's going to cause them to self destruct.It's because their not happy with the way there life is going.nothing good comes from going against God's will.unlike the angels God has given us the power of choice.nobody is born a certain way.we come into this world with a blank slate.we are all spirit&body.only our bodies are of this earth.so it's natural to have earthy desires.weather it be money,food,or sex(flesh).the bible warns us to avoid certain behaviors because its not good for us.as a youth minister,I've consoled many gay teens on this topic.i never judge.simply tell them what the bible says and tell them the choice is theirs.some were depressed even thought about suicide.but choose to live according the the bible.they have found peace,family and happiness because they chose to live the way god intended
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Abby
Do NOT lump LBGTIQ in with BLACKS.... as you put it! There are African American LBGTIQ and all other races too. You can't choose your skin color, but you can choose your lifestyle. People of color were indeed born that way! See the difference?
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Howie
You can't choose sexual attraction either Abs. Haven't we discussed that? If you think it's a choice ask someone that's gay otherwise you know nothing of which you speak
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Nix
If you say ppl of color what color are you speaking of? African isn't a color. There is nothing wrong with black. They is nothing wrong with the term gay or LGBT. We all get the point, even black people refer to ppl as black and gay ppl refer to ppl as gay. It's allowed by both groups for others to use both terms. Let's not get wrapped up in the ever changing political correctness and keep it simple. I don't even know what the IQ is in LGBTIQ. Keep it simple to stay on point. You're getting off track.
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Abby
Howie..... I happen to be a person of color! I am not BLACK! We don't care for people lumping us with whatever suits their needs and try to jump on board the "black" train to defend your LGBTIQ group makes me really discussed by you. You show your lack of "education" as you put it every time you write another one-sided statement. How uninformed are you? You claim to be gay, yet don't know what LGBTIQ stands for?!?! You claim to be a Christian, yet don't know the Bible at all. You are very touchy and defensive even when spoken to politely! You might want to look into a good counselor as you seem to have strong issues resulting from lack of self acceptance. Without getting everyone else to agree and affirm your choices you seem to fall apart. Then you stoop to name calling and insults. Go in peace. If you are so happy with your life choices go and enjoy yourself. You have argued and ridiculed everyone on this site who hasn't agreed with you. You are trying to make others validate your feelings and choices! It isn't healthy to rely on same.
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:are you now speaking on behalf of all black people?i don't refer to other blacks as black.I call them brother or sister.Your entitled to your opinions.but that's just what they are your opinion. You can't speak for all blacks.you can't even speak for everyone in the gay community, because not all of them think the way you do.my opinion is the the gay lifestyle is unnatural &unhealthy. (That's my opinion) no one is judging you,but when you misquote the bible and teachings of Jesus Christ your trying to force your lifestyle on us (and this is where the conflict comes in)you say your born that way...cool.once again,your opinion. I can't fault you for what you believe in.i know for me and alot of other people, we have choices.if your happy, then be happy. We're happy for you.nobody hates you (not on here anyway)nobody wants to judge you.but what people are saying (and been trying to say for the longest )is not everybody agrees with that lifestyle.
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Nix
Abby the term black is not a derogatory term. The "Black Lives Matter" movement is just that "black." It isn't "People of Color Lives Matter," It is not "African American Lives Matter." My point is that it is just a term an easy term that describes a race. There's nothing I could think you can find offensive about it. My work and social circles which consists of multiple races, use the term black as a simple term to refer to a race. In saying that, I will, for your sake, refrain from saying black. I know things get intense on this forum but it is not my intent on offending you or anyone else. I use sarcasm at times, I will admit but I do not try to be rude or disrespectful. But also remember as with text messages and email, this is just text, and with text there is no tone. So tone can definitely interpreted not as it was meant to be. But you have stated your feelings and with respect to you, I will use the "term people of color" or "African American."
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Abby
Again Howie...... don't try to lump LGBTIQ with "blacks" as you put it! People of color didn't choose their skin, God did. LBGTIQ have a choice to live however they choose. LBGTIQ come in all races and religious backgrounds also. All people have the same rights and should have. No one said LBGTIQ can't use the restrooms, they just need to use the one that conforms to their genitalia! The same genitalia God gave them!
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Nix
I have not called anyone a name, nor been disrespectful. Please let me know where I was and I'll correct it. I've pointed out the truth about what ppl claim to be and then the very next sentence contradict themselves according to what they claim to believe. Gay is know more of a choice than color. Don't speak anything about since you obviously aren't gay. it comes off as foolish. If you don't see the similarities of the mistreatment of blacks and gays then ma'am you are in denial. The black people went through a larger scale of ugliness and brutality but the quest for equality, which I clearly explained, was my whole point. It is the same fight. The groups are not aligned but the quest is the same. Fallen apart? I laughed at that. I have simply struck to my guns, I have not been impolite but I have backed ppl in a corner with my logic and simple questions. Is not my fault they choose to avoid the hard questions and instead skip over that to point out what a sinner I am. It's a discussion if you're going to throw our claims, give me something to back it up. Most ppl on here don't. You are responsible for your choices and you go with the majority huh? So did you align yourself with white friends and try to become part of the white culture? Did you bleach your skin and get facial surgery to take on traits of white ppl? I bet you didn't. I bet you remained yourself and embraced it. Which if you didn't you should. There's only one you, you're perfect as you are. So why didn't you do it if the majority norm was that of the white culture? See. Do you see my point? Since you didn't confirm to being white, should you be okay not being part of the social norm and your opening up yourself to ridicule by others that think poorly of ppl of color? Do you put up with condemnation or insults? Why should I? Maybe I am not the one that needs councelng. Maybe you need coinciding? Are you of color or are you African? Are you Buddhist or are you now the know all be all of Christianity? Are you conforming to the majority of the white population or at you standing up for who you are bc you're fine just like you are? You say I'm X but then I do/say Y but look on the mirror darlin and see that you are contradicting yourself at every turn. Just because I'm holding my own here and some people don't like it bc I guess y'all think I should go back in the closet, doesn't mean I'm going nor that I'm conflicted. It just means I'm proud of who I am, and I just happen to be gay. There's nothing wrong with the gay lifestyle no matter how many think so, perhaps they don't like it bc they truly don't like gays. Whatever, I'm here, I love me just as I am and I'm not backing down to you or anyone.
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Abby
Your endless rants tell more about your instability than you realize. Very sad. I will mediate and pray for you. Please seek help.
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Abby
Don't speak anything about "black" then Howie..... since you obviously aren't black. See how stupid and ridiculous that sounds??? No one made you to be gay! Somewhere along in your development you choose to identify as gay re some event, lifestyle, certain people influence, etc...... unless you were born with both female and male genitalia at birth..... YOU WERE NOT BORN THAT WAY!! Get it? Enough said.
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Nix
You really are going on the record saying that? Instability is unfortunately yours, so I suppose you should own it!
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Ralph J Miller
You really want to believe that religion is the cause of gay teen suicide.i have no problem with the gay community.(but i feel what people do behind closed doors is their own business)if you want to place blame,blame the lgbt for encouraging young teens to come out and saying that lifestyle is normal behavior.although widely accepted nowadays,there are still those who object to that lifestyle.so when a teen comes out they face rejection from family,friends,and peers.for a young person who's mind has yet to fully develope might not be able to take this rejection.now we have kids wanting to change genders(some can barley tie their shoes.let alone make any type of adult decisions for themselves)while there parents support them.kids can be mean at times.and make fun of things they don't understand(but that's what kids do)you want to point fingers,and force everyone to accept your lifestyle.unfortunately this is the real world and it doesn't always work out that way
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William
Couldn't have said that any clearer myself Ralph. The life you choose for yourself is not up to debate by me or anyone else, but don't try to push your ideals on on me, by trying to convince or make me accept. Seems people to the day are trying to interprete what the Bible says and how to apply... Sorry but all this support for gay, lesbian, trans, whatever marriages is far from what I ever invisioned from the scripture.. Again, interpretation has been accomplished... Not a fan
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Ralph J Miller
Thanks William.glad I'm not alone in my thinking
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William w. George
Unfortunately the people who wrote the Bible were translating it from ancient scripture, and it is my opinion that it is unfortunately misinterpreted, and because of church political views a great deal was denounced and hidden from the truly faithful, the message is simple love,tolerance ,understanding ,devotion and most importantly forgiveness, homosexuality ,male or female is a life choice, except it and worry about your own problems .
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Carol Amina
So William you Chose to be male? how can you say male, female is a choice? you seem confused?
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Jay Kleine
Carol, it is obvious he meant male homosexuality or female homosexuality. You seem like the confused one to me.
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Abby
It's a choice because if God chose for you to be male, he gave you a penis..... a female.... he gave you a vagina! What's in your head and the choices you make with what you are given is up to each individual!
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Nix
Abby I've asked a few on here and no one has answered, perhaps you will. When did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?
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Abby
I chose to be a certain way and to live a certain life just as we all do. Sexual experiences usually begin with the same sex since that tends to be who are friends are. Sometimes we begin with the opposite sex. Either way, we choose to live a certain life accordingly. I chose to be heterosexual just like I chose to date within a certain race. Not because there is anything wrong with any race, but because I found my own race to be more in keeping with how I chose to live. The same with religion. I chose an individual who accepted my religious beliefs as I accepted theirs. I chose my sexuality according to what seemed most acceptable and natural and what would be most comfortable in society as a whole. If I chose to be homosexual, interracial, etc. I would have to realize I was going against the majority which is considered the norm... and I would have to accept and adjust accordingly. The minority can't expect the majority to change to suit their needs. That is where LGBTIQ is not getting the point! The more letters, minorities added to the mix, the less acceptable and the more challenging the situation becomes. We can't possibly adapt to accept and include all behaviors as normal or society as a whole will become chaos! That doesn't mean we should hate or harm or shame anyone! It just means if you choose to "walk to the beat of a different drum" you also, choose to be seen as different. Love and peace. I hope this helps.
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Nix
This is a true Christian...open your mind http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/04/08/many-christians-obsessed-bedrooms-bathrooms/
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Nix
Well I didn't choose my sexuality and if I would I wouldn't have done it just to conform to society's norms.The most greatest achievements in history we made by non-conformists. All behaviors and lifestyles should be accepted so long as it doesn't harm another. Buddhism is very clear about how you treat your fellow man. Everyone in this country at least, has the freedom to be who they are. If others choose not to accept people just trying to engage in the pursuit of happiness, then maybe they should look in their heart to see what makes them so resistant to another's happiness. Hate is most often fed by fear! I'll leave it right there.
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Abby
Well Howie..... I answered your question..... apparently you didn't LIKE my answer. Life has many choices and choosing you have a same sex relationship is one of them! Life has many choices! To say " I was born this way" is just a so called cop-out! We all are given choices. Whether conforming to society or not! You choose! But, what you choose HAS CONSEQUENCES! Whether you choose to accept it or not! If you are BRAVE ENOUGH to live a minority lifestyle......accept that you are NOT in the norm and STOP expecting life to be without challenges! If you accept the lifestyle.... accept the challenge! Don't expect the majority to agree or accept!
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Abby
I replied..... apparently you didn't like my answer. I have studied all faiths. I am telling you what Buddhists, Muslims, and yes, also Christians believe. You are pointing out others articles, etc. what good does that do? They are opinions too! I am just saying..... live any way you wish, but you will have to also, live with the consequences of your choice. If you choose a minority lifestyle and wish to publicize it..... you will receive opinions from the majority you may not like. You can't change an entire world to suit your needs. Peace
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Nix
That is definitely your experience to have. If you want to know if gay is a choice, ask someone who is gay. No one else is qualified to answer. I briefly gave my experience below. So that's a start, ask a few more, I think you'll start to see how it works.
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Marsha
The Bible is not, never has been.... mistranslated. We can't change the word of God to serve our own needs or wishes. The Bible does say first and foremost to LOVE one another as God loves us. Where love is present there is no room for bullying, hate, or evil works. Sin is sin, but it also, tells us that it is NOT FOR US TO JUDGE LEST WE BE JUDGED! For no one is without sin. Jesus saved the adulterous woman from being stoned. He loved her, not her sin. We will all stand before God one day, only God can truly see our hearts and souls and know our true intentions! Judgement is mine says the Lord. A loving and far God is there for each of us. Faith, Hope and Love.... and the greatest of these is LOVE!
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Alyx Fraust
Actually the King James bible was approved by King James, if it was translated in a way he did not approve it was not printed, so yes the bible has been mistranslated. Also according to readings there are no verses in the New Testament which judges sexual orientation. It is the part of the bible we are supposed to teach from as the old Testament is history, with the birth of Christ it became past tense, and Christ did not condemn anyone other than those that abused the word, he spent his life time living amongst the "sinners". Christ said "For the commandments say, "You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet." These--and other such commandments--are summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself." - Romans 13:9. You are correct, it is not for us to judge each other and those that use the bible as a means to do so are the ones truly losing the message Christ gave us over his 30 years of wandering and preaching.
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Marsha
The Bible has NEVER been mistranslated! If you were a true believer.... you would know that God will NEVER allow his word to be used to misguide us!! Read Romans 1-16 for Biblical reference to man with man and woman with woman relationships!
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Amber
Unfortunately Marisha, this isn't about belief, true or otherwise. God would never mislead but since writing is a man's skill, and retranslating, adding and subtracting things were decisions men made... Rest assured that it isn't god but man's folly that has the bible so distorted. Belief should never be put before fact, but adjust to accommodate it.
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Chill Draggon
Marsha Which of the many bibles was written by god? There were many more writings and teachings that never made it into the 'bible' for political reasons. The powerful decided what to be included and what was excluded. It's nice to have written rules of behavior to never deviate from, but it negates your free will to treat your neighbor as you yourself would be want to be treated. I hope you attain whatever 'paradise' you're seeking. Too bad you're missing out on some of life's pleasures like unconditional love and unconditional forgiveness for all our brothers and sisters.
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Abby
All Bibles state the same things. You obviously haven't studied much religion or read many translations. I am Buddhist and know better than that, Les!
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Marsha
All books of the Bible were influenced and directed by God via the Holy Spirit. No distortions took place. All versions convey the same message. Period.
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Nix
Respectfully saying brother William, I am entirely sure you would have to be a homosexual yourself to know if it is indeed a choice.
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William
First of all, thinking the way you dd Howie, we are not brothers in any sense of the word, and if you are in fact referring to me being gay, I would indeed commit suicide before lowering myself to be queer.....
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Mistydawn Carter
And THAT is exactly the response children who are still figuring out who they are to be are afraid of. Thank you for putting it into perspective for us all.
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Nix
So William you stated: "I would indeed commit suicide before lower myself to be queer. " Well all I can say is the world would certainly be void of the love, compassion and the obvious high intelligence you possess.
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Marsha
You have BOTH now lowered yourselves to the bottom of the moral ladder with your comments! Congratulations! Where is the love, acceptance and kindness now?
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:this is an example of you trying to force your lifestyle on others.you say some one had to be gay in order not to choose that lifestyle.(that makes no sense).It's true that people have become more tolerant of that lifestyle.Doesn't mean they agree with that lifestyle.And you will never get everyone to agree with that.now if i have offended you in anyway,i apologize.once again,i do not judge.I simply state what the bible says.read it for yourself,how you translate it is up to you.the bible is a living book,it speaks to people differently.(i know what it says,so you don't have to tell me your interpretation of it) Do you call everybody gay who says they were not born that way....that's kinda like shoving that lifestyle down people's throats.And people will take offense to that(this is the real world)comparing the lbgt movement to the civil rights movement...I take offense to that.we were denied rights due to the color of our skin.(can't hide that)the only thing similar was the violence associated with it due to extreme hate.The difference is you choose to live that lifestyle in the open.(you are right,people should be able live there life style the way they want and in peace)but the world doesn't work like that.Now let's talk about all these rights the lbgt community is asking for.were getting alot of our information from the news(and we all know how they are when trying to divide people up)we see the gay parades,the gay marches.Tell us Howie,what equal rights are yall asking for?(we just know about the bathroom rights) This is now your moment...lets put aside the science,the religion,and all the hate.Tell us what it is your looking for.....?
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Nix
Ralph I am not trying to force anything down anyone's throat. I am saying the LGBT lifestyle is just as worthy of acceptance as any other lifestyle as long as it's consenting adults. Living out loud me be seen as flaunting but is certainly as acceptable as a straight couple living as they choose. There should be no difference. So tell me how a straight person could know if a gay person chooses to be attracted to another man? He couldn't know that, unless has had that experience himself. How else would he know? So to say it is a choice is completely without evidence and not rational thinking. It's scientifically disproven Let's look at your choice to be attracted to females. When in your life did you choose your attraction to females over your attraction to males? Was it 11, 12, 13? What made you decide? How did you know it was the right choice? Did you experiment before you decided? After growing into a man are you comfortable being attracted to a female? Is it that you are still attracted to males because of fearing the damnation you refer to in the bible? Allow me if I may...most if any, of this did not apply to you. As you hit puberty you felt a natural attraction to females. It was a natural attraction for you. Just as being attracted to a male is a natural attraction for a gay male. There simply is no choice. One can choose to have a romantic relationship with a female but yet being attracted to a male. That is living a lie. That is also using and being dishonest with someone else. That is causing harm to another human being. That is not consenting adults. That quite simply wrong. The civil rights movement for black Americans once again, is NOT the same as the new civil rights movement for the LGBT community. I did not compare the two in experience but yes in struggle. They both still struggle from oppression and equality. One for the color of the skin, the other for mannerisms or the appearance of femininity (for gay males) and masculinity (for lesbians). Nothing either group can help. Yet both groups are still discriminated, victimized, brutalized and even murdered...just for being how they are born. The black Americans had a brilliant man that struck a chord with other blacks across the land and fearlessly demanded equality. His message encompasses all minorities. The LGBT community has benefited from his message and what ultimately. The LGBT community does not have one important figure such as the black community did, but there is a huge unification, just as there is/was with the black community. The work of Dr. King has benefited so many oppressed minorities. So no I would dare not say the struggle has been the same. History quite frankly shows blacks were brutalized on a much wider scale and things aren't still how they should be. But there cannot be any denying of the struggle of the LGBT community, that has suffered a great deal themselves. To equate the two is not my intention, to call out the similarities and bring attention to the injustices suffered by both groups is the entire point here. The LGBT community want equal rights and protections. Marriage equality is a great start. Now there are spousal benefits afforded to all. The LGBT community does not have full protection from discrimination. On a federal level as far as government jobs and the military, discrimination is not legal. Many cities have the same protections for the LGBT community as far as jobs, housing and the like. The struggle continues until it is a federal law that in the public sector noone can be turned away, denied goods of services for being LGBT. That is not a special right. That is an equal right. It is not a law across the land. Neither is it the wish to force this lifestyle on anyone. If you don't live it, then don't live it, no one wants or expects you to change. But it is the wish and the fight for acceptance and tolerance whether one agrees with the lifestyle of not. If you own a business in the public sector governed by law on the city, county, state or federal level despite what you personally think, then you are not allowed to discriminate. That is not the law across the board although every court so far is siding with that basic equal human right, and the fight will not stop until it is. If you claim your religious rights are being infringed upon then I must ask what belief is it that's being infringed upon? If you believe a homosexual lifestyle is sinful, then don't get into a same sex relationship. Noone is asking or wants you to. But if you own a business in the public sector you cannot discriminate. I call on you to "do unto others as you would have done unto you." It doesn't mean you have to like it, support it, applaud it, but "love your neighbor as yourself." You would not like to be told "we don't serve coloreds," "we don't serve towelheads," "we don't serve "mics," "whops," "kikes" and all the other ugly groups that have seen discrimination. "We don't serve fags," is just as unacceptable. Funny I've never heard of anyone saying "we don't serve Straight White Anglo Saxon Protestants." The bible has oftentimes been used to treat various minorities in inferior ways. It's been written that a lot southern plantation owners thought they were supreme Christians. Point being if you don't want to serve the full public, don't open a business. The laws are starting to lean that way, towards the rights of all. Until then the fight continues. It's basic human decency. There will always be marches because there will always be pride of what has been accomplished. Just as there are St. Patrick's day parades, or Black History Month, a world wide women's march and the like. Minorities have the right to be proud of their accomplishments.
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:I'm not saying what your doing is wrong(i just don't believe in that lifestyle)if that's your decision then by all means,do what makes you happy.but don't try to convince me that people are born that way because God intended for it.As far as the civil rights,people don't know your gay unless you tell them or flaunt that lifestyle.(i can't hide being black)wouldn't be easier to stop letting people know your gay so you can be treated equal(just asking) As far as God making you that way,what are your thoughts on bestiality(that's also condemned in the bible)were they born that way,what if they were to ask for rights to marry animals.Do you even consider that to be natural.It's the same argument if you think about it.why would God make people born attracted to animals then tell them that act is forbidden(that would be a cruel joke)So the real question is this....Are you trying to convince us of that lifestyle or yourself? Cause their are some that will say"it's my life,and I'll live it the way i want" those are the one's who just wanna be left alone,you don't see them in parades or crying about certain rights.you see,they are honest with themselves(they don't claim to be born that way)"my life,I'll live it the way i want"means they made a choice.It's when you make the argument that God made you that way and misinterpreted the bible to fit your own needs is when you have problems.why would you constantly have to defend your lifestyle unless somewhere deep inside you,there is a bit of regret...
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Nix
Oh Ralph let me address this one by one although I think I have many times before, so I feel like I'm repeating myself. I know how I was born and the sex to which I'm attracted. I never had a choice. The only choice I had was to deny myself full happiness that most people don't even have to think about. Again I ask when did you choose your attraction to females over your attraction to males? Yep that's what I thought. It works that way with gay people as well. I personally do not bring up my sexuality to strangers. If a friendship develop it just comes out as would anything in the natural progression of a friendship. There are many whose behavior or style of dress, appearance, etc. lends its way to interpretation by others to label them as gay. A parade of pride is not a flauntation. Not saying it can't get flamboyant but that is called freedom. For some they are not treated as equal based on first appearance, much like black Americans were and still are not treated equal based on appearance. Bestiality, I really can't believe I'm dignifying this but you brought it up so I'm assuming you are just ignorant to it, so I'll do what I can to explain it from what science has taught me. Bestiality is not a sexaulity, it is improper sexual acts. Animals are not consenting adults. Someone that engages in this practice is suffering from some kind of perversion and mental defect. This does not involve two consenting adults, so to even address should that marriage be allowed is ludicrous, seriously ignorant and a waste of my time, not trying to be rude here. No one is crying about rights. I haven't seen anyone crying, I imagine some do get that passionate to where they get overcome with emotion here and there but I have not seen widespread incidences of mass hysteria. Now I have heard and seen, once again, people suffering from oppression band together to achieve equality. I applaud any group, blacks Americans, LGBT Americans, Jewish Americans, female Americans, etc. that defies social injustice to achieve their God given basic human right of equality. When this occurs, the other countries of the world often follows suit. It takes unity as again I think you have seen from what the black community went through in the 50's and 60's. They were not crying when they organized the march in Selma, they were making a demand as part of a movement, to be treated equally. Because of that act and many others, laws were changed to give black Americans equal treatments. There was no special treatment, only equal treatment. Also as I'm assuming you know, the struggle isn't over as is the case with the LGBT Americans. So you don't say "wow, thanks, finally," and go home. You keep fighting until it is equal in all areas across the board. Quiet, complacent people never cause positive change. So it may be okay for them to sit in the corner and let everyone else do the work, but most people agree that everyone has to tow the line at some point. And most of those people have been conditioned to fear speaking out or taking a stand. That is their own personal journey. The bible is not the basis of my spirituality. I do follow the teachings of Christ but I have also have use for science and facts. The old testament does not contain many factual statements. Some of the new testament is man's word. So no I don't live by a words in a book just because it's written in a book that I have to or I'll go to hell. That would be a slap in the face of God who came be a mind and this ability for critical thinking,
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Marsha
This is devolving into a really sick post!
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:you keep missing the point.i will no longer argue religion&science.you keep saying"BORN THAT WAY" i wasn't born attracted to females and was never attracted to men(maybe because i wasn't raised in that environment)it was at a certain age that i become attracted to women(for me it was normal and natural) Have you ever been with a woman(to experience the pleasure that only a woman can give you)it's like plumbing,certain parts don't go together.let's look at the differences between the rectum&the vagina.both are two different parts but serve to different purposes(where's your science now)you would think if that was God's intention you would have had a vagina back there.
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Nix
Ralph you've topped yourself here. I was raised in an environment where men liked women and women liked men. As were all people. It is just now that thank God, people are learning to support their children and love unconditionally and help them develop into loving, happy people. And sometimes along that journey a child figures out (just as you said you figured out you were attracted to females), they are attracted to the same sex. They don't decide, they figure it out. It is a natural occurrence that they come to terms with. Now so much more than ever before, parents are realizing that their child is deserving of unconditional love, and that the societal norms of "not discussing that" or worse, casting them out, is growing less and less. Love isn't about the sexual act or what parts you put where, love is about love. Sex is only but a part. So what people do in their bedroom is their own personal business. How they pleasure themselves and their partner is private and many couples do many different things. I would suggest you not think about how people do what they do in their own bedrooms and get back to your own personal business. For you to even mention that shows that you have spent some time thinking about that. That is quite simply just, CREEPY!
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:the actual comment was "what people do behind closed door is their own business"but much like you do the bible,you twist my words around.I'm starting to understand you know...deep down inside you hate being gay.i don't have to defend being straight,yet you feel the need to defend being gay.all you have to do is tell people "it's your life,and you'll live it the way you want"that would end any argument.don't tell us about science or misquoting the bible(we don't care why you think your gay)we don't care what you do. Just stop trying to force us to accept that
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Nix
Ralph I did used to hate to be gay. I thought something was wrong with me. I was conditioned by society and southern religious beliefs. I came of age in the 80's, there was no acceptance of being gay back then. It wasn't talked about unless it was something that was mocked or scorned. I sought counseling from several wonderful people, some religious some not. I learned that there's nothing wrong with me. The only thing wrong was that I had listened to ignorance and lies and believed what was said about me by those who thought gay was evil, weak, inferior. I gradually arose from an abyss of self loathing and learned to like myself and then to love myself. I learned the negative things society had taught me and what peers made me think of myself was wrong. They were lies. I was programmed because I had no one in my life to open up to about my big secret and offer a positive influence. I had bought into the garbage and negativity, so I had to learn to deprogram. Now I am proud of who I am. Gay is a part of me, just a part but a part that is worth love and acceptance just as anyone else that is gay or straight. It's no longer a point of shame or embarrassment. So no, you're wrong, I don't hate being gay. But it I keep it in perspective, it doesn't define me, it is only a small part of me. I love my life and who I am. I am very blessed to live such an enriched life full of a loving accepting family, immediate and distant. I have wonderful friends that are as close as family. I have a wonderful relationship with a man who is my soulmate. I have respect at work and my community. I am invited to social events, charitable events. art showings, play premiers, parties, dinners, dances and the like. I have a full life that had I not had the experiences I had, may have turned out quite differently. I could be in a bad place, had I not learned love and acceptance of myself. Now I am volunteering at a local social group for non profit, that welcomes all youths to feel accepted, appreciated, included and valued in our society. The majority of them are LGBT. I don't push my spiritual beliefs unless asked but I make it known I am approachable without judgement. I found that my spiritual health has made me a vessel for others, but only when solicited. Organized religions have put such a bad taste in the mouths of so many that are lost and searching for spiritual peace. If they come to me I ask God for guidance and try to listen and hear what they are saying. I try to tell them the positive things I have learned on my journey. I have married many couples most of which are straight but gladly officiate weddings of my gay brothers and sisters. It has become an important duty for me to advocate for the equality of this extremely battered community. Things are so much better in 2017 but there is so much more to do. When I read about suicides, attempted suicides, families that cast their children their own flesh and blood out; it breaks my heart and at the same time incenses me. That is why I will do everything in my power to fight for legislation that protects the LGBT community. That is why I will not let the community, the youth in particular fall prey to the wolves in sheep's clothing pastors that shove the bible down these peoples' throats. Their interpretation of the Bible. The LGBT community should learn about Jesus and His way of life, They should learn how He treated His fellow man, especially the outcasts. They should learn His message was only one of love, compassion and forgiveness. If they choose not to believe, I let them know that is fine, they are still loved and entitled to happiness. At this day and age, with the current political climate it is more important than ever to embrace science and remember that science, critical thinking, compassionate reasoning, facts, truths, evidence is what we know. What we only speculate on has no relevance. It only serves to confuse and divide. Science has shown there is very strong evidence by numerous scientists that homosexuality is genetic. It exists in over 1200 species of animals. It has been around for all of time. And undisputed in the world of psychology it has been deemed as a normal condition of many in the world's population. Religion has turned into a business and has abandoned almost all of science. There are many hypocritical predators out there. I will call this out every time I see it. So I have stated that I don't approach people on my way of thinking, religion or life. I don't expect everyone to agree, it's not my place to even try and make them. But it is my duty to call out bigotry especially when it's hidden under some's interpretation of the bible. The bible holds wonderful stories, and some pretty disturbing, but most importantly it tells us of the life of Jesus. Whether one believes or doesn't believe, I tell them that for me, the way I see it, we can only benefit if we try to live just as He did. I've had many non Christians, agnostics, atheists all across the gambit, agree. Some do not but not because they don't agree is a great way to live and love, but mainly because they don't believe Jesus was the Son of God. And I again tell them that's okay. It's not really my business if you or whomever accepts me or tolerates me, It isn't for me to care. But I will speak up and call out social injustice against anyone anytime I see it. But especially the LGBT community. Because they are the ones that get targeted the most from the religious right or should I say religious reich and the extreme "Christian values" conservatives. Anyone who says they are Christian and speaks out against a group of God's children that only want to live in the world with peace and happiness, their God given right, well then I have a problem with that. They are nothing more than hypocrites that pervert the teachings of Jesus.
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Marsha
SUICIDE?!? Really? That is even more WRONG! How can you say such a thing? This entire post has devolved into nothing but hate and evil.
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Ralph J Miller
Howie:why you keep trying to explain your lifestyle to me.that's pushing your lifestyle on me.i already told you i don't care,and you still throw it in my face.i don't care what your reasons are.just be you.if your happy stop trying to explain yourself.truth be told its not me your trying to convince
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Nix
Ralph you are the one accusing me of hating being gay. You went there not even knowing me. You don't know what's in my heart or behind my same sex attraction yet you keep trying to tell me and anyone else who will read your uninformed believes, that you are somehow in some omnipotent gift of knowing what's in the hearts and mind of gay people. You don"t. Let go. I went so far as to explain where I was coming from which fell on deaf ears. I have tried at all, not once to get you to give me lifestyle a chance. That's not what I'm doing. I don't push that on anyone. I am calling you out because so are supposed to be so Christian yet you are first to say you will not accept. There's a difference in accepting and experiencing. No one want to push anything down your throat. Acceptance is up to you, me describing my experiences is doing nothing to you. If you feel imposed upon, well that's on you. Just don't call yourself a follower of Christ when you don't accept your neighbor as yourself. Any you say you have gay friends. What your wife's hairdresser that you have met once or twice. It's ashamed to be a slave to a book, especially when you completely miss the point.
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Abby
Howie..... Are you an authority on homosexuality? God? The Bible? What is YOUR background?
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Nix
Raised Roman Catholic,attended church every week, twice a week when in school. Attended Catholic schools from K-9, last three years of high school I attended Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (CCD)and my last two years of college I attended a Jesuit college, including a year of theology courses. At no time have I ever heard or observe any Catholic leader or teacher speak disdain for homosexuals.
I'm no more of an authority than you are but I have had extensive exposure and study of the bible. For me what I take away is that it is really about Jesus's teachings and honoring his father. I I think the basis of any healthy spirituality is the golden rule, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I do not think others have to believe like I believe, but this is what works for me. I do have a strong disagreement with people that use it to justify their, hate, condemnation, judgement of others as many on this forum have done. I know as much about homosexualtiy as you do heterosexualtiy, assuming you're straight. How about you Abby?-
Abby
The Catholic Church doesn't use the Bible nearly enough! For years Latin Masses left parishioners sitting through masses only the priests understood. I have a degrees in psychology and theology and multi religious studies. I have a master in science and am working on doctorate now. The Bible does indeed have verses that speak against homosexuality. Buddhist and Muslim's etc. believe this to be unnatural and sinful. Just because we are meant to love one another and not judge others, does NOT mean heterosexuals must give up their right to privacy in gender specific restrooms. Where is the respect and love being shown for our beliefs? No one is asking LGBTIQ to give up anything here. We simply want our rights to use a gender specific restroom. Marriage is available for all. Adoption is available for all. This country has been very tolerant. May countries are not. Love each other does not mean go alone with behaviors we believe sinful. Jesus NEVER preached to love the sin, only the sinner!
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Nix
Jesus NEVER preached about homosexuality as well!
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Abby
No Howie..... you don't have to be homosexual to know if it is a choice. Being heterosexual is also a choice. Being a murderer, adulterer or being religious are all choices! We choose how we want to live our lives. That is why God gave us freedom of choice. Just because something sounds good or desirable or you are tempted to try something does not mean you must act on those feelings. The choice is to allow yourself to live a certain way or not. This is straight out of psychology 101 and abnormal psychology and all the way up to the doctorate degree I pursue now. Be happy any way you wish. It is afterall your right to choose. At least in this country. In other countries it is often much more risky. This is a wonderful and tolerant country. Just the fact that we can speak openly regarding these matters is a huge freedom offered by a very tolerant society. We all know people who are different than ourselves, hopefully we try to realize that different is necessarily bad and accept others rights to be as they wish to be.
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Nix
How do you know homosexuality is a choice? We're you gay and then I guess you didn't like the way that was going down so you decided to be straight? I can't take you seriously if you choose to be ignorant when someone who is gay, is telling you it's nothing to choose. Sex is a choice but that's not the subject. I commend you on your studies, I think that will teach you a lot and open your mind. Science is the one truth we have as a gift from God. Words in a book is not. But whatever gets you through the night, I would think your experiences in life dealing with the very real systematic racism would make you more empathetic at least compassionate towards other non straight white Anglo Saxon Protestant males.
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Abby
Is NOT necessarily bad ...... sorry for the typo!
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Nix
Baby, I get where you are going but it just isn't logical and lacks complete sense. To follow what is natural with sexual attraction isn't a choice. I feel like a broken record but you cannot speak for someone who is gay, unless you are gay. If you try to do that, your statement has no validity but rather sits on the side of fantasy. Take it from someone who has same sex attraction, I remember from a very early age how I felt, although I experienced a small amount of experimentation before my prepubescent years, I knew what gender I was attracted to. I even tried to tell myself I liked females because of the "majority norm" you often speak of, but I always felt something wasn't right. Then I had a samesex experience and I understood what was going on and who I was. Why must people avoid what people who've experienced it on the first hand, say? What are you and others looking for? Is it a justification for your need to insist it not be a natural thing? What do you get out of insisting that? Really why can't you and others accept that it may be natural when tons of gay people tell you it is for them? Is it because it shatters your belief system? Is it because it shatters what you've read in a book by men that you have never even met? I don't get why you and your people cannot simply take the words of the ones who have lived it and say, "well maybe I don't know." Does that really make you such a bad person by questioning something you have blindly accepted to be true. Maybe just maybe, it isn't true. Maybe just maybe, "they" got something incorrect. Is that too unfathomable? I mean you are blindly accepting the word of someone you have never seen nor met. Is it bad to question that maybe just maybe, that don't have it 100% correct? Who are these men be so powerful that you so blindly accept their live experiences to be the way you should mold your life? Who are they and why do they possess such power over you? I don't get it, please help me understand.
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Abby
Not true! Heterosexuals make a choice too. All of life is about choices!
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Marsha
The Lord would never ALLOW his word or message to be mistranslated!! That is just an excuse to make the truth fit your own needs. I too, have committed sins! They are exactly that. I can't change the Bible to make it right. I sit in judgment of no one. I love my neighbor. That doesn't mean that if I see him committing a sin I should condone it any more than I could ask anyone to condone my sins.
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Abby
Jesus..... did speak regarding sexual sin and promiscuous behavior. He forgave, but said go and sin no more. Sexual relations are to be between a man and a woman in marriage. That is what is, has been and always will be the the norm. Just because many sin and fall short doesn't mean that it is acceptable.
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Nix
Nothing in this article is talking about promiscuous behavior. Jesus did not say anything about same sex love, same sex sex, same sex marriage. I'm pretty sure if it was as big of a deal so many people seem to be fixated on, He might have mentioned it at least once. If you Abby, feel it is a sin, then simply don't do it. But also if you live your life dictated by every societal norm, then you will never grow. All of the things that were considered normal 100 years ago, much of that is definitely not considered normal now. Example: a woman having no right to vote, no right to have an opinion, expected to be submissive to their husband. That was the social norm then, you see how unnormal now. I think that is a positive change. It's called progress and growth as a person, as a society. Without challenging the norm, society would never advance. I don't care who disagrees with my lifestyle, I answer only to my maker and try and live my life based on the teaching of Jesus. It goes against everything I know about all religions, granted I'm most familiar with Christianity, to condemn and judge others. So everyone can surely offer their opinion on my lifestyle or the lifestyle of strangers, but by judging and condemning they are nothing more that hypocrites and are left with nothing but a close-minded opinion. If seeing two people in love, happy, enjoying their lives upsets someone, then that someone obviously has something wrong with themselves. If one hates himself, then of course he will hate others as well. Everyone should live their life and let others do the same. Noone has the right to use religion as a blanket for judgement or condemnation of others.
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Abby
Howie...... you are very defensive and concerned about being judged. I am not judging you, simply stating that religious beliefs of various denominations tend to view homosexual acts as taboo, minority and deviating from the normal intent for sexual intercourse. Love isn't always involved with sexual desires and acts at all. Live as you choose, but don't expect acceptance from the majority. Tolerance is a wonderful thing, but if someone believes something is wrong they aren't going to accept it as normal. If our country is one thing, it is tolerant. Many countries excute people for behaviors we tolerate in this amazing country. I am a believer that if your conscience is clear on what you do in life you don't feel it necessary to keep pushing to defend your actions. Live in peace. Do as you wish. Don't expect the majority of society to conform to the minority. It won't happen. The majority always tends to rule a society. The LBGTIQ try to make their numbers count by banning together as a whole. Unfortunately, that just confuses the issues further ie. Now transgender, Transexual and cross dressers want to use whatever restroom they see fit to choose. The majority feel uncomfortable with this intrusion to their privacy. Many don't understand the difference in the LBGTIQ persons lifestyle choices and don't really want to have to think about it. That is their choice. We all have choices. Live in peace and love. Good day. By the way..... Jesus did define marriage as between a man and woman and the two become one!
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Nix
Hell yes I'm defensive when it comes to people claiming to be religious attacking a lifestyle of people causing no harm, just trying to live in peace and happiness! I will always be. It doesn't matter about what some find taboo or what other cultures believe. You can't call yourself a Christian or whatever religion whose main principle is do unto others as you would have done unto you and then sit in judgement. If you personally don't agree well then don't do it. So many people took it upon themselves to spew their judgement against a lifestyle that is cited as being a factor in the decline of LGBT suicide. That started of this forum. It's too soon to say the study proves a fact but it's a positive thing regardless. Like I said, it goes back to the old saying if ya can't say nothing nice, then don't say nothing at all. I wouldn't be defensive if no one had said anything I felt needed to be defended in the first place. I get the a the majority of people are straight, most of my family and close friends are, and that's great, I embrace it. But if the majority is to rule successfully, they have to also have a place for the multitudes of minorities. When minorities band together and demand change. They eventually get it. Who else would acknowledge their interests if they didn't take the lead? And you're wrong twice here. The majority of the US support or agree with marriage equality. And secondly Jesus said nothing, anywhere in the new testament or bible about same sex marriage.
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Abby
Yes...... Jesus said marriage is when a MAN takes a WIFE and they marry so the two become ONE. He did NOT SAY WHEN A MAN TAKES A MAN OR WHEN A WOMAN TAKES A WOMAN. You are very misguided and sadly, blinded to the truth. Don't try to say Jesus didn't speak out regarding sexual sin, adultry, prostitution, etc. Look up rectum in the dictionary...... see if you find the same definition as vagina?!?! Rant on forever..... it still won't be natural, normal or majority behavior. That doesn't mean you can't decide to do it anyway. Just don't try to pass it off on religious as though they are wrong to believe as they do. We all have rights! By the way.... suicide is a choice too! A really poor one made by an unhealthily feeling of hopelessness, self-doubt and self- loathing. It is not the choice of a healthy mind.
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Nix
Abby, you are correct. Jesus did say those things. The passage was mainly addressing divorce, I believe but you are right He did say those things. That wasn't my question. You are good at not answering the question. I will give you props you answer more than most here, but you can still be a good dodger. Anyway not to digress, my point is what did He say about homosexuality? What did he say about marriage between two members of the same sex? Since it was such an abomination as mentioned in some old book whose origin is so scattered and hodge podged that it astounds me that people think it a handbook written by God Himself to be taken literally, but regardless... if it was so important, if it were indeed such a huge sin, then maybe jesus would have added some sort of blurb about it. You are sounding like Marsha with the sex talk.Get off it. How any consensual adult couple chooses to engage in love making not only no one else's business, but it is obviously natural for them. I don't think anyone is going to ask for your definition of normal sex and then base their private acts on your answer. It would probably be better for you and everyone else to stop spending so much of your time thinking about what people do in their bedrooms. Studies show that, get this, you'll like this, "the majority" of couples stray way beyond missionary sex. (I cited "the majority" thing because I know it is a life or death decision making tool for you). As far as your fixation on "the majority," I have addressed the need moreso the non need, of going along with "the majority" for living life several times. I'm not sure if you are understanding. "The majority" is just that, a majority of people. It can be a majority of women or a majority of whites or a majority of protestants or a majority of middle class, what is your point? That just because "the majority" of people are straight and they are attracted to the opposite sex that they don't engage in sexual acts with the same sex. Well yeah, that's pretty easy to figure out. Again what is the point??? So you have a majority or heterosexuals and a minority of homosexuals, what does that tell us? You still have a lot of people at the end of the day that are free to live and love in the way that is consistent with who they are. Do you still want to hammer home whatever your point is about "the majority?" Please see my other reply about when you conformed to being white, to satisfy your desire to conform to the majority. I'm interested to hear how that applies with your desire to align yourself with "the almighty majority" of which you constantly put on a pedestal.
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Carrie
It is hard for me to believe that this is still an ongoing battle. I am very glad to see the Lesbian and Gay community enjoy the same rights that the rest of the nation does and happy to see that the youth is becoming better for it. I, on the other hand, am Trans and have seen my rights get stripped once again. The swamp monster just back peddled on another promise, who would have figured, and withdrawn support for trans in schools. We suffer from the highest suicide and murder rates in the nation and the world. To see the young get stomped on again in this matter is heartbreaking. The fight goes on.
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Nix
Yet do not forget, regardless of the garbage you see, there are many of us who love and support you! I hope we see a better world for the trans community sooner rather than later!
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Abby
There has to be some kind of order to society or complete chaos results. Use the bathroom for the gender according to the genitalia GOD gave you! If you have a penis..... you belong in the male restroom. If you have a vagina...... women's restroom! Deal with what's in you head in a psychiatrists office!
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Nix
That's very disrespectful to Cary. Perhaps the whole "if you can't say nothing nice..." thing should come into play here.
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Abby
Men in a women's restoom is VERY DISRESPECTFUL TO ME AND OTHER WOMEN AND FEMALE CHILDREN! What about our rights? Women adjust clothing, etc. expecting only other women to see this. If a special bathroom is needed as with family bathrooms... let them build one!
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Nix
A man who is transgender is no is no longer a man. And has their ever been a case of any transgender person arrested for bathroom misconduct? It would be the dominating citation out of every conservative's mouth. So no need to feel disrespected, hon.
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Abby
Transgender and everyone else deserve respect, kindness and support. Do we take rights from one group to give to another....NO! I think the future holds room for single use restrooms as I see more and more of these. Problem solved. No one needs to share a restroom with anyone except their family as with family restrooms. Transgender issues are very confusing ie. Bruce/ Caitlin Jenner..... he/she still has a penis, dresses as a woman and is sexually attracted to women. If anyone understands this..... please explain to the rest of us. I truly believe with all my heart this person needs psychiatric help. He/ she has no idea who he/ she is.... how can we??
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Sam
While there has been a drop in lesbian and gay youth suicides, trans youth suicides still remain high. We don't need tolerance but we need exceptance and education. People who are afraid, homophobic and ignorant will always use a passage in the bible to attack, thus ignoring all other passages. God loves everyone regardless. If you are a member of the Universal Life Church then so should you. Shame on those who are on here for malicious reasons. But God loves you as well.
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Carol Amina
Thank you Sam for talking from your heart! Yes we do need more education however I found that most in the Christian Church wont accept education due to fear and narrow mindedness. This sadness me because I know that Jesus was not that kind of person. Peace
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Rick Renwick
Gay marriage does not save lives, it condemns them. The Bible forbids this practice. The Bible is the same yesterday,today and forever. Satan puts these perverted thoughts into people's mind. We need to love our gay friends but also pray for them to give their lives to Jesus and turn from their sinful lifestyles. God is a forgiving God, but he is also a Holy God. Sin will not enter heaven, it can't. Do let's pray for each other to repent of their sins. This goes for unmarried couples who engage in sex before marriage and live together. Sin is sin. One sin is no worse than another. I pray all people give their lives to Jesus. Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus and so on trample on the Word of God. You can't not worship God in truth if you don't have Jesus Christ as your Savior. This is not my opinion, this is right out of The Bible. Read it people , Old and New Testament. Jesus is for redo and is the only way to eternal life. God Bless all.
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Kelsha Wright
Yes you couldnt have said it sny better. I have people in my life who are gay, bisexual, part of the lgbt community. I love them so. Yes we need to practice loving one another, and yet still remember to be honest with what God has written in his Word. We have to remember that Sin is a Sin and to not rewrite his word for our convenience of the way we choose to live. He gives a choice, either we trust in him to deliver us from Evil and to abide by his laws and word or we dont. There isnt any straddling of the fence. No matter what sin it is. Thank you for saying what you said it helps to approach situations with people with my daily walk with the Lord.
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Ruth
Actually man has written and translated these passages and word for millennia ........ Lost in translation comes to mind ..... LOVE - PEACE - COMPASSION is universal in all religions
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Daniel L. Taylor
Rick, Are you with sin? Look deeper...are YOU with sin? Now let, God, be the judge of mankind and you just love your neighbor.
Rev. Satch Tola
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CJ Walker
Well said Rev. Tola....
Rick, the "Good Book" clearly says. "JUDGE NOT". Think about that....
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Cherish
I don't judge. I have LGBT friends, and I tell them. I believe homosexuality is a sin. I too am a sinner, and because of that, and my imperfections, I know there is nothing wrong with loving my LGBT friends in spite of their sin. But it is still a sin, and to call it anything else simply perpetuates it. Only truth can save them.
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Michael
GOD,,, does not judge,, at least "my GOD" does not. My GOD is loving, and accepts me for who I am,,,, the way he created me.
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Christianna
Michael we must share the same Loving God. Bless you for your nice comment.
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Janice Murphy
My Heartfelt Sentiments, Just As I Am, Live and Let Live, I Came to Life This Way. My Maker's Choice. Goodness Is Gracious !!! And At This Maturity I Am At Peace With My Path.
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Laly
Proud of yours words, my doughtier is lesbian and I tell her all the time the same, God loves you just the way you are. ( Sorry for my english I come from other country ) Thanks Michael!!!
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Minister Jerry
Last I checked, by your statement of "Sin is sin" - then all of us, including you - are guilty. Show me one person - JUST ONE - that follows the Bible completely and absolutely. And which Bible should be followed - the King James version, New International, Roman Catholic and so on...
There is too much hate in the world - what someone does in the privacy of their own home, that does not degrade or hurt the person they are with - is no one else's business. Jesus, and Buddha, and Confucius and many others all have the same central theme - to love one another, and to help each other.
I will not paint over the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel just because the artist that painted it was gay, nor will I shun my friends and neighbors that are. I look at the good in them, and the countless hours they volunteer with their community.
May you find it in your heart to also follow that tenet...
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Christianna
Well Stated. Love each one another not hate.
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Abby
As a Buddhist, I must inform you that the Buddhism teaches that homosexuality is a sin. Also, oral sexual practices and masturbation are to be avoided even by heterosexuals.
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Nix
For Abby below April 26, 2017 at 7:14 pm Doesn't Buddhism adhere to it own version of the golden rule? If so isn't it wrong to judge and condemn others?
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Vaughn Gardner
Old Testament laws are just that - old and for the Jews only. Unless your mother is Jewish you are not counted as being a Jew and thus not bound to the Laws.
If you are Christian, you are not bound by the Laws because Jesus came to fulfill the with his death - he was the complete and total forever sacrifice. So as Christian you are not bound by them nor should you be trying to bind others to them.
The only laws Christians should be following and preaching are the 2 Jesus gave: "And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. " (Mark 12:28-31 So Love God, Love each other. To preach anything else is to play God. Leave the juding of what is sin and what is not to God. You be the hands and feet of Jesus and take care of the poor, the homeless. the hurting, the stranger, and the hungry.
And don't give me this "..but Paul or James or John said" Yeah they may have said but Jesus' words are the life source and the way to live life. Their words, are the words of men trying live their lives to the best way they knew how based on their culture and understanding. Nothing more.
Non-Christians on the other hand, unless born of a Jewish mother, are also not bound to the Law. So trying to pin others with them is false and lying to control their lives.
Christians today preaching Old Testament Law as the way to follow Jesus are nothing more than modern day Pharisees trying to control how people believe.
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Pagan minister Mistydawn
I understand how you feel about this issue, however I do not agree. If you wish to follow the dictates of the Holy Bible to the letter rather than the spirit of the letter, how are you any different from the persons telling a child to kill themselves? If I can recall in the Holy Bible Jesus said love one another. There was no but make sure they know you think they are going to Hell. Most LGBT that I know of are Christians. They believe in Jesus and that he died for their sins. Other than the sin of loving the same sex they uphold the same commandments as any good Christian can.
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Nix
Rick, with all due respect if that is your opinion the perhaps you should join a ministry of an already existing Christian faith as there are may out there that feel as you do. I don't understand how one can call himself a follower of Christ and look over the Golden Rule. Jesus never preached hate and disdain, He preached love. Unconditional love for all mankind. His law of loving God and doing onto others as you would have done onto you, quite explicitly stated by Him, replaced all existing law of the Old Testament. Jesus never made conditions for homosexuals. He never mentioned homosexual or homosexual marriage. I must say, in my opinion, from reading about Him and His teachings, that if homosexuality was truly a sin, He would have mentioned it at least once. He did not. He did not say homosexuals are sinful, a marriage between two are sinful, nor that they should be treated as such. We are all sinners. His message was love, very basic and to the point. Somewhere along the line a lot of Christian as they refer to themselves, lost that point and began perverting the message of Christ. That is very sad and unfortunate. But what is worse here is that it is so devastatingly dangerous. With this rhetoric so popular, yet so wrong, in many Christian faiths, LGBT children are raised to believe they are not loved by God and that something is wrong with them. Very often these children of God are the ones that attempt suicide. It is refreshing now to see the wider acceptance of LGBT lives, and the decline of attempted suicides. I only hope and pray to my God that that statistic increases. God makes no mistakes. If you are born gay then that leads me to believe God wanted it that way. In closing I must say that I hope you and others with such an incorrect view of Christianity find it in your heart to change and love all as Jesus instructed. The Old Testament rhetoric is completely dangerous, often times contradictory and so often cherry picked by evangelicals and the like. It went by word of mouth for thousands of years and then many translations, so it is safe to assume things were lost and man's own agenda and opinions were inserted. God gave us brilliant people to research scientific facts, the Old Testament has few if any. It's a great read but cannot be followed as it is a direct contradiction to Christ's fundamental teachings. I will pray for you and others like you including sister Kelsha. There is no salvation for those with condemnation in their hearts. My intent is not to judge but you put it out there so I'm responding with my heart and what I know to be true, Very well wishes for you, brother Rick!
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Rick Renwick
Read Romans , Chapter 1, read I Cor. , I believe Chapter 6, Read 1Peter. I have many gay friends. I work with 2 of 3.My hairdressers are a lesbian couple. I love them all sincerely. I cannot hate, God forbids it. I love our Muslim brothers who persecute us Christians.I belong to a Christian church. I hjyst know what the Bible says. My niece is a lesbian, I love her sincerely. I can't in good conscience support a lifestyle contrary to Gods teachings. I love all. Have a nice day and may God Bless you.
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Ralph J Miller
Howie.jesus didn't say anything about child molesters,does that make it right.Rick did say we should love all gays.in no way was he spreading hate.but you attack him because of his religious beliefs.he is entitled to his opinion.as you yours.if you flaunt your lifestyle,people are going to criticize.when people ask about that topic,i simply state what the bible says.it's a choice,your choice.But take responsibility for your decisions.misinterpreting the bible to justify your lifestyle possibly means your uncomfortable with your lifestyle choices.
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William
Somewhere Howie I think you missed picking up the good book, maybe you picked up and didn't read, my point.. homosexuals are in fact addressed, you must have missed that part. Been mentioned several times over in this whole post...
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Reverend Andrew
for starters as a Gay Minister! i think that marriage is marriage no matter what or who you are, but Calling something "Gay" just makes it worse, and puts a stigma on it. When people of color get married it's not called a "N word " Marriage, When a a white person and a person of color gets married it's not called "Zebra or Oreo" Marriage so what is it when anyone that is LGBT gets married it's called a Gay Marriage?
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Philip Johnson
Rich no where in the bible does it say homosexuality is satanism!
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Barbara Hanson
I agree with Sam's 2/23/17 post. Simply put, NO one is qualified or entitled to judge others based on race, religion, sexual orientation, et al. As for Rick Renwick's post, WHICH version of WHOSE bible substantiates some [involuntary] behaviors are sinful. I will venture a guess that NO person, including heterosexuals is completely sin-free. Also speculate (sans statistical data) - many MORE per capita heterosexuals are imprisoned for various crimes than any other "faction". The key here is tolerance; do unto others is equally as appropriate.
I cannot imagine a loving, forgiving, tolerant God would condemn anyone. We do not know all the reasons/events/lifestyles that contribute to certain behaviors, therefore judgment of some is completely unwarranted and inappropriate.
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William
How is talking about being sin-free or imprisoned here... I'm sure non of us are as righteous or even close as our lord Jesus ... Fact of the matter is whether homosexuality is condemned in the Bible!!!!! I believe it says a man and woman.... Such as Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve... must we take bible study again... Stop trying to interpret or twist the scripture to suit your argument... OMG
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Nix
Rick I have read Roman, Chorinthians, etc wow was I wrong. Homosexuals are sinners. Only heterosexuals are sin free. Thanks for clearing that up. And by the way Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. The Bible is written by man. Man with their own adendas, some maybe based on their own opinion. Man with his own spin, that maybe not always a good spin. Man, imperfect sinning man. Taking that into consideration is it really a good idea to interpret it literally? Literally as if it was something based on provable facts? It's a guide. What really matters are the words of Jesus that can't even be proven, but at the very least are inspirational and a good Guideline for living your life. "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you." The Golden Rule. Pretty easy to understand. Don't judge and condemn unless you're okay with it being done to you.
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Preacher Jim
Sam, I too agree that God does love us all. Having said that I must also comment that I do strongly believe that we should heed the passages in the bible that condemn homosexuality. In that same regard I have never found a verse in the bible that approves of same sex marriages. I do consider myself to be a follower of our Lord and Master Jesus the Risen Christ and try not to be judgmental. I am just stating that I feel, according to biblical tradition and wording that homosexual behavior is not acceptable.
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Grace G
Wow! You took the words right out of my mouth! So many use the Bible to defend their thoughts and actions. I feel one thing for certain God and Jesus would never condemn our brothers and sisters. Therefore please don't play God! Sam you're awesome! Peace love and joy. Grace
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Grace G
Thank you Sam! You're awesome!!
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Jack Moore
There is a great difference between loving members of the LGTBQ community and approving of, even promoting, their lifestyle. It is every Christian's duty to love LGBTQs. However, the LGBTQ lifestyle is contrary to (1) Darwinism, in that the lifestyle does not result in replacement reproduction of offspring, and (2) Kant's Categorical Imperative, which asks the simple question: What would happen if we all did it.?
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Marsha
Extinction!!! That is what. And LGBTQ promotes the breakdown of the typical family unit as outlined in the Bible.
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William
Thank you Marsha!!!!
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Nix
I don't think everyone will do as you stated as a concern, simply put bc all are not gay therefore will not find themselves in a gay relationship. As for extinction, that is up to the human race. Since by best estimates only 10% of the population is homosexual, the other 90% will likely continue to reproduce. If the human race lets hate and unacceptance of others run rampant then extection could happen, and reproduction would have nothing to do with it.
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Abby
Howie.....The POINT was...... what if everyone did it? You always seem to miss the point and go off on your ow tangent!
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Nix
Whose post are you referring to?
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Yes.