Florida just passed a law requiring that all public schools hold a moment of prayer each day, prompting a wave of criticism from opponents.
Earlier this week, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed HB 529 into law, forcing all K-12 classrooms across the state to observe a one-minute moment of silence at the start of each school day. The bill makes Florida the 15th state legally mandating some sort of silent moment of reflection at the start of the school day.
The news sparked immediate backlash from critics, who argue that religion has no place in the classroom and that it’s wrong for the government to legislate faith into daily life for public school students.
But defenders of the law say that it’s perfectly legal because teachers can’t force students to pray – they’re welcome to simply sit silently if they’d like.
Have proponents of prayer in school finally found the ultimate loophole?
God's Back in Class
Initially, sponsors of the bill were careful with their wording so as to not be seen as advocating for prayer in public schools (framing the one-minute moment of silence as a “moment of reflection”).
However, Governor DeSantis made it very clear that this bill is explicitly meant to promote prayer in school.
"It's important to be able to provide each student the ability every day to reflect and be able to pray as they see fit," said Governor Ron DeSantis, during the bill's signing at a synagogue. "The idea that you can just push God out of every institution and be successful, I'm sorry, our founding fathers did not believe that."
Following the bill’s signing into law, one sponsor, Rep. Randy Fine, appeared to change his tune on the spiritual nature of the bill, admitting it’s intended to restore prayer in schools and stick it to “woke radicals.”
Education or Indoctrination?
Separation of church and state advocates were quick to sound the alarm on the bill. The Freedom From Religion Foundation condemned the new law in no uncertain terms, saying in a statement that the new bill is designed only to “insert divisive religion into the public school day,” and that “Florida students deserve a secular, well-funded public school system that aims to educate, not indoctrinate.”
And while the bill prevents teachers from leading the class in prayer or making any sort of suggestions on how to fill the time, it seems clear that the spirit of the law is focused on giving religion a home in the classroom.
Critics say that no matter how nicely you market it, the bill is still suspect:
https://twitter.com/WallachBeth/status/1405219317289992196?s=20
Others questioned whether all religious beliefs would be treated equally under the new law:
However, defenders insist this is simply a solution in search of a problem. Florida schools could already opt-in to moments of silence at the start of the day, and students aren’t prohibited from praying in school – they simply cannot be forced to do so by school staff.
What do you think of the new bill? Should students have mandatory prayer time in school?
70 comments
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Ms. Darcy
It is a moment of silence!!! Not prayer!! I am 100% Christian, however, I do not believe in forcing others to do what I want, and it isn't. You can pray IF YOU CHOOSE, you can meditate, or just twiddle your thumbs... But I am glad they are at least given the option !!
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pjm
It's not a big deal. This is much ado about nothing; not anything to get hysterical over. I hate misleading clickbait headlines like this one. Florida is not "requiring prayer in schools."
When I was in grade school in Massachusetts in the 1950's and 1960's, school days were always started with the Pledge of Allegiance followed by a "moment of silence" for students to reflect on whatever they wanted to. I was neither indoctrinated nor scarred for life by it. In fact, as a child that minute of silence was somehow peaceful at the start of each hectic day.
I'm a senior citizen now, a Christian, and very liberal. As I've aged I've come to realize that there are many battles worth fighting -- but this is not one of them. Even if Florida's intention was to force prayer on schools, in effect they did not succeed. A "moment of silence" is just that, and is not forcing religion on anyone. There is thankfully no such thing as thought police.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I was in grade school in western Mass. (Springfield area) in the 60's and early 70's and remember starting the day like that. No harm done in my view.
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pjm
I was in the same area -- Westfield!
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
West Springfield for me, WSHS Class of 1975. Still have lots of family in Hampden County.
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Daniel Gray
Just HOW IN THE HECK can anyone with any brains call this moment of silence a prayer? As long as the teacher is not forcing them to pray, you dont have a thing to say about it. The Courts have already ruled this can be done so unless you are willing to take them on then change your panties and hush
Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985) the United States District Court for the Southern District of Alabama ultimately allowed the practice, found in favor of the defendants and upheld all three laws.The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit also upheld the 1978
The ONLY court you can appeal this to is the US Supreme Court and there is a very good chance they wont hear it especially after they just ruled 9-0 on the Philly case.
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Tom
Actually that isn't completely correct as the ruling was reversed by the Court of Appeals and the case was sent to the Supreme Court where they ruled the later 2 laws were unconstitutional: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/472/38/
"In proceedings instituted in Federal District Court, appellees challenged the constitutionality of, inter alia, a 1981 Alabama Statute (§ 16-1-20.1) authorizing a 1-minute period of silence in all public schools "for meditation or voluntary prayer." Although finding that § 16-1-20.1 was an effort to encourage a religious activity, the District Court ultimately held that the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment does not prohibit a State from establishing a religion. The Court of Appeals reversed.
Held: Section 16-1-20.1 is a law respecting the establishment of religion, and thus violates the First Amendment. Pp. 472 U. S. 48-61.
(a) The proposition that the several States have no greater power to restrain the individual freedoms protected by the First Amendment than does Congress is firmly embedded in constitutional jurisprudence. The First Amendment was adopted to curtail Congress' power to interfere with the individual's freedom to believe, to worship, and to express himself in accordance with the dictates of his own conscience, and the Fourteenth Amendment imposed the same substantive limitations on the States' power to legislate. The individual's freedom to choose his own creed is the counterpart of his right to refrain from accepting the creed established by the majority. Moreover, the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all. Pp. 472 U. S. 48-55.
(b) One of the well-established criteria for determining the constitutionality of a statute under the Establishment Clause is that the statute must have a secular legislative purpose. Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U. S. 602, 403 U. S. 612-613. The First Amendment requires that a statute must be invalidated if it is entirely motivated by a purpose to advance religion. Pp. 472 U. S. 55-56.
(c) The record here not only establishes that § 16-1-20.1's purpose was to endorse religion, it also reveals that the enactment of the statute was not motivated by any clearly secular purpose. In particular, the statements of § 16-120.1's sponsor in the legislative record and in his testimony before the District Court indicate that the legislation was solely an "effort to return voluntary prayer" to the public schools. Moreover, such unrebutted evidence of legislative intent is confirmed by a consideration of the relationship between § 16-1-20.1 and two other Alabama statutes -- one of which, enacted in 1982 as a sequel to § 16-1-20.1, authorized teachers to lead "willing students" in a prescribed prayer, and the other of which, enacted in 1978 as § 16-1-20. l's predecessor, authorized a period of silence "for meditation" only. The State's endorsement, by enactment of § 16-1-20.1, of prayer activities at the beginning of each schoolday is not consistent with the established principle that the government must pursue a course of complete neutrality toward religion. Pp. 472 U. S. 56-61.
705 F.2d 1526 and 713 F.2d 614, affirmed.
STEVENS, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which BRENNAN, MARSHALL, BLACKMUN, and POWELL, JJ., joined. POWELL, J., filed a concurring opinion, post, p. 472 U. S. 62. O'CONNOR, J., filed an opinion concurring in the judgment, post, p. 472 U. S. 67. BURGER, C.J., post, p. 472 U. S. 84, WHITE, J., post, p. 472 U. S. 90, and REHNQUIST, J., post, p. 472 U. S. 91, filed dissenting opinions."
Based off of this ruling, mandating meditation or a moment of silence in schools would not inherently be unconstitutional unless it is seen to be an endorsement by the state of a religious practice. While it doesn't seem to me that this FL law will meet that criteria of endorsement of a religious practice, I'll be interested to see if it is argued that Gov. DeSantis' statement, "It's important to be able to provide each student the ability every day to reflect and be able to pray as they see fit," is evidence of the bill being used to promote religious prayer in schools and, if that argument is made, what the courts will rule.
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Daniel Gray
Actually it IS completely correct. Teachers have been FIRED for stopping kids from praying over lunch or stopping them from praying during a moment of silence. In wallace v Jaffree in 1978 the US Supreme Court ruled that a moment of silence IS Constitutional, when the teacher leads it with a prayer from their religion...that is a no-no. The U. S. Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal in the case like this from Virgina, thus upholding Virginia's law. ... The reason these "minute of silence" laws are upheld is because the state imposes absolutely no pressure on students to pray or engage in any kind of religious activity. So if the SCOTUS says its constitutional, game set and match, the ones against this lose.
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Tom
To quote your first post, "Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985) the United States District Court for the Southern District of Alabama ultimately allowed the practice, found in favor of the defendants and upheld all three laws.The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit also upheld the 1978"
Only the first law (§ 16-1-20) was upheld by the Supreme Court, the second two (§ 16-1-20.1 and § 16-1-20.2) were overturned by both the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court.
Also the Philly case (I'm guessing you're referring to Little Sisters of the Poor Saints Peter and Paul Home v. Pennsylvania) was not ruled 9-0 but 7-2.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but you cant refute the SCOTUS. A moment of silence is just that. They kids can pray or not depending on what they want to do. As long as the teacher is not leading a prayer, then its legal and constitutional. So there isnt anything anyone can do to change that
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Tom
I'm not refuting SCOTUS, I'm actually directly quoting their ruling to clarify some of the inaccuracies you have posted. I mean I didn't even disagree with you over the moment of silence requirement being constitutional or not. I actually stated that I do think it is constitutional.
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Larry Mager
While I'm against FORCED prayer in religion,, I don't know of a single student who wouldn't appreciate a moment to at least ask Someone to give them help with the up coming test!!!
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CB Cuff
From 'The Wall' ; "Hey teacher, leaves those kids alone." Maybe if we all pushed hard enough we could send Florida out into the middle of the Atlantic. Children the age of those shown in the photo, about 8-9 years old, entertain themselves with 'things imaginary', why spoil that with religious fantasy. Many schools and colleges have groups a student can join by choice, if they feel the need to 'practice' their beliefs in that setting. Wonder if they have Drag Queen Story Hour in any elementary schools.....
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shiningwolf9
I really do not see any harm in a minute of silence, as long as no one is forcing prayer on anyone. That should never happen. And, it would be a good way, if it works, to help the teacher start the class, without all the talking, and joking that usually goes on. Thinking of it in that vein, I shocked teachers aren't voting for it.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Another way to interrupt all that talking and joking before class is called the Pledge Of Allegiance. It worked when I was a kid.
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shiningwolf9
A minute of silence at the beginning of each class would probably be a good idea.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
A minute of silence is not a prayer, unless you choose to pray during that minute. An hour of silence everyday sounds like it would be a lot better to me. Mindful meditation, which is also not praying, but focusing only on the present moment, ought to be taught in every school, everywhere. Talk about a reduction in crime and deliquency. There would be a complete reversal! And that doesn't have anything to do with religion or prayer. There's just a vast overabundance of idiots who are too ignorant to know the difference. I can be explained to them a hundred different w as us, and they still won't have a clue. I spend a lot longer than the as t in silence everyday, and also pray numerous times everyday, but don't confuse the two. I spend by farost of the time alone, at home. It's almost as if I was taking a mini vision quest everyday. And these people have a problem with oneimute of silence everyday. That's unfathomable to someone like me. I guess I assumed everyone spent more time in silence everyday than that. I can't imagine life without periods of silence. No wonder there are so I many problems and acts of violence in the world. Knowing that only makes me want to spend more time alone, in solitude, away from all those people who are never silent.
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Rabbi Francine MacHotka
I have a personal experience with this whole issue.
When I was in elementary school, we had religious books anat the start of the year there were a bunch I had lined up to read. I came to school one day and all those books were gone. Then in class on the same day it was explained we had a moment of silence that we were allowed to use as silent prayer. Some kids asked what’s prayer and were right away attacked by the other kids who were Christians and the Christians were attacked by other kids of different religions. I sat there still wanting to read to figure it all out & I wasn’t allowed. That was the start of the year and this is where the bullying began.
I’ll let everyone form their own opinion but ....... need I say more?
Ron DeSantis isn’t Jewish. He just likes uniting people so he goes to synagogues and hosts rabbis at various speeches. There’s nothing wrong with his intentions but a super young elementary student is too young for this debate. Leave them be.
Judaism doesn’t teach the Tanahk to young children. They learn what’s right and wrong and how to behave and simple holiday traditions and what foods are good to eat and Hebrew language. Many stories are too difficult to comprehend for them and can be traumatic especially if taught the wrong interpretation.
My experience with silent prayer was confusing to say the least and I hated seeing the bullying and children who had no religion rejected. I also wanted to know what everyone else believed so I could make a choice and ..... the books were taken and the teacher was silent. It was upsetting. Not at all a peaceful way to start the day.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
DeSantis isn't a Jewish name Francine, but he could be a Jewish convert. Look at Sammy Davis,Jr., who was Jewish, but didn't look like he could have possibly have been related to my great-grandmother from Wales, whose maiden name was Elizabeth Davis, yet his name was also Davis.
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Chris
What is it with these people trying to force everyone to follow their beliefs? Do they honestly think if Jesus were to appear he would approve of what they're doing? What they've done? How delusional are they?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
What beliefs, Chris? I didn't read anything about beliefs in that story. Talk about delusional! I guess you think nothing of the sudden appearance of your mythological Jesus. If Jesus appeared before me I'd tell him to go to Hell, right before checking into a mental hospital.
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flugo
'seabee': May I inform you that you WILL appear before Jesus in the near future and HE will decide your eternal destination, based upon your acceptance or rejection of Him as ONLY Savior.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm glad to know you're still alive, fluzy. You've been delinquent from the blog lately, and we've really missed you, and your negativity. It seems to happen whenever we tell you off, enough for it to sink in. So I guess you've been pouting and having a temper tantrum. Regardless, I'm glad you're back, buddy. There's a whole lot more I want to tell you about your distorted version of religion, and how I'm tickled pink to know I'm not going to Christian Heaven when I die. One man's heaven is another one's Hell. One of y'all alone is bad enough, but both you and Jesus in the same place would be intolerable. I hate to even think of it!
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John P Maher
CHRIS YOU HIT the NAIL in THE RELIGIOUS HEAD, JESUS, JESUS, JESUS and ONLY THEY USE HIS NAME in VAIN, GET THAT BIBLE OUT HYPOCRITs, A M E N !
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Val Jester
Would you try to force others to believe in global warming? Is that any different?
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Nathaniel Robert Hunt
Climate change can be verified by science, religions/Gods can not
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Climate change can atleast be verified by computer generated images.
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Stewart
Wants prayer in class try a church run private school .
whats to stop staff from pushing their beliefs Kids of all ages hate feeling like an outsider and will join in to fit in. Churches have used the basic psychology of herd mentality to control others for centuries . Its how witch hunts and genocides have been justified .
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Juan Rolón Rosario
I understand what should be the separation of church and state, but if in the prayer they perform Odin, Cernunnos, Zeus or Jesus, well I think there should be no problem, however if it is only a Divinity, of course That's wrong.
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Lionheart
Of course it doesn't make any sense to require children to talk to a wall, or the floor, or the ceiling. It would equally be wrong for children to be told they need to talk to some other imaginary things, like fairies, Zeus, Vishnu etc., while they are at school.
🦁♥️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
As a child Lionheart, I spoke with my magic fairy (as I called her) telepathically, wherever we were at, except for when she first started appearing to me, between the ages of two and three, at Jack and Jill Nursery School. However, the other toddlers started distancing themselves from me. So, we came to realize it was best to speak to eachother with our mouths closed. Yes sir, there are plenty of reasons why I am called a natural. And ofcourse, as I'm sure you would have guessed, my favorite T.V. show back then was Casper The Friendly Ghost. At that age too, I knew he was real, but couldn't understand why the ghosts in that show looked so much different than the other ghosts I sometimes saw, who usually looked like regular people. Only one of them was solid white.
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Robert Wilson
Let us all pray. Rev Robert Wilson. God Bless
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Prey to who? Allah, Ra, Satin,God?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Let us all pick our noses, and flck our boogers at you!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
My above comment was meant to go directly below Robert Wilson's, not Douglas's.
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Lionheart
Why pray Robert? It’s quite obvious there’s nothing there, evidenced recently by many who contracted Covid-19 and died, praying to be spared death prior to vaccines. Fortunately, mankind has developed a vaccine that helped much more than your god did. It’s not foolproof, but much better than when people were relying on their faith/god to pull them through.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The way I see it, Lionheart, and please feel free to differ, karmic retribution doesn't end at the end of a sojourn. The slate isn't wiped clean at the beginning of every life. There's no telling how old some of our debts are, or what we did to cause them. Payback can be a real bitch, but the universe will be balanced.
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Lionheart
How do we know karmic retribution is something that is real? Deepak Chopra talks about things like this but he has no evidence to support karma, or things like universal consciousness. It all sounds wonderful, but in reality it’s basically word salad for things of which there is no evidence to support those statements, unless you have evidence for it my friend.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
In addition to that my friend Lionheart, don't forget about the Akashic Records. Yesterday, I got a book by Linda Howe, on that subject, in the mail, from Amazon. If y'all don't hear from me for a little while it will be because I'm studying that book. I'll let you know how it goes. Ta, for now, ol' chap.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Just one more thing, Sir Lionheart. Personal experience is enough to convince me, and I seek not to convince others. However, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear, in one form or another, whatever is acceptable to that individual.
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Lionheart
Thank you, and your reasoning is the same reasoning why there are so many religions all saying pretty much the same thing about their gods and/or beliefs.
I’m so glad I don’t use the same reasoning for my children to know I am real. Know what I mean my friend? ✌🏼
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
All I can say for sure Lionheart, is that I have perceptions. Everything else might be an illusion, but whatever the case I choose to believe what makes the most sense to me, and I am most comfortable accepting, which for me does not require absolute proof, but atleast is a lot more than more likely than not, or a preponderance of the evidence, as in a court of law.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Deepak Chopra also says that old age is only a state of mind. Do you believe that, Lionheart? And have you read his book The Return Of Merlin?
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Lionheart
I haven't read his book. Has he read mine? 🤪
Old age might be a state of mind as I always think I'm still in my 20's, but physical old age is very real, which eventually kills us. Does it matter what Deepak Chopra says? He too will pass one day as he is just as mortal as you and I.
Lionheart says....you are as young as you want to feel. 😇
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
If I might, as a survivor of pancreatic cancer?
The medical arts were indeed the balm that my body needed for me to show no signs of the Beast these 6 years and a month post surgery, which was followed by chemo. I have no signs of recurrence or metastasis.
What I thank the Holy as I know it for, the knowledge, experience and skill of the humans who did the work.
Also, for me, the prayers and other well wishes of family, friends and well meaning strangers has been a salve for my spirit, and helped sustain my attitude that I would win.
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Lionheart
I'm so glad you are well. Not many recover from what you had. Well done!
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Thank you for your kind comment.
I was given a 7% chance when diagnosed, of making it to 5 years.
Though I am devout in my belief in the Holy Powers, I know to the depth of my soul that they work through Man.
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Nicholas J Page
Education has changed since the 1960s when I was a young child we had prayers at school I don't think it was forced upon us Let the children decide for themselves When they are old enough to understand religion and they can choose Religion is not to be forced into a child.Being an ordained minister in the UK with ULC I don't preach to people not do I judge but I will if people want to otherwise leave kids alone
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I don't guess it would hurt for those students to atleast say "God bless the Queen", would it Nicholas?
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Susan Marie LaLonde
It's all that heat in Florida melting brains cells. Prayers should be taught at home not in the classroom. Manners might be a better start of the day and loving Your Fellow Human Being and respecting them should be taught...
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Ilmenheru Terikson
This is just another attempt to keep the conquest going by the servants of the most evil of faith traditions, Christianity. This is why we need to make it so those who serve the people have to denounce all gods,kings,etc and swear absolute fealty to the people of the nation as a whole to the best of their ability while they are taking tax dollars as a pay check and living in a state provived govenors mansion.
Now had they wanted to start school days with 15 minutes of Tai Chi to help kids calm and center themselves at the start of the day, I would be all for that as it has practical life long effects well worth instilling in our children as young as we can in mass.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
However Ilmenheru, this time even a Catholic Democrat seems like a welcome change.
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Erech Melchizedek Christ Nimrod
Governor Ron DeSantis said "The idea that you can just push God out of every institution and be successful, I'm sorry, our founding fathers did not believe that."
Religion, especially the racist, idolatrous, white supremacist Judaic/Catholic/Christianity that the founding fathers believed in, has pushed God out of the church!!!
The Bible is the foundation Book all Christians "say" they believe in. The Bible says "NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANYTIME" John 1:18 and 1 John 4:12. But Billions of religious idol-worshipping people believe they actually see their white god in church pictures and in corrupted Bibles. Not only, that but ignorant CHILD-abusive religious parents teach their Trusting LOVING CHILDREN that their white god is a bloody man nailed to a cursed cross with a crown of large sharp thorns on its bloody head and that that idolatrous, satanic god-abomination COMMITTED SUICIDE AND DIED FOR THEIR TERRIBLE FILTHY SINS!!!
So religious Catholic/Protestant/Christian CHILDREN have a religious Guilt Complex from the cradle to the grave and become (homicidal) suicidal alcoholics and drug addicts in an attempt to cover up and get rid of that religious guilt complex and be happy, although they do not consciously know that it is religion that has made them unhappy (Homicidal) suicidal alcoholics and drug addicts since they were taught demonic lies by their deceived parents whom they LOVE, and their sly satanic religious leaders whom they admire. So sad.
As the Innocent, Trusting CHILDREN stay silent for the required amount of time in school, the Spiritually, psychologically Strong CHILD will think of having fun or going to Disneyland, etc. The religiously deceived psychologically weak CHILD will visualize a guilt-producing, fear-producing, suicidal bloody dead abomination!!!
Christ CONQUERED death in Revelation 1:18 and Revelation 3:21. You should Read those verses that religion hides or downplays.
Racist, Death-Worshipping Religion is the Generational Curse, the Root of Mental Illness in society, but it is a Root that is worshipped by those who are deceived, a Root which is worse than the poisoned Kool-Aid the Rev. Jim Jones served to his now-dead congregation. Gun violence will increase (Matthew chapter 24). So sad.
1 John 4:12 "NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD ANY TIME. If we LOVE one another, God dwelleth IN US, and His LOVE is Perfected IN US." Amen.
I AM Sincerely your Friend, Nimrod, the Spiritual Revolutionary "LIFE" Coach KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS (REVELATION 19:11-21). Peace.
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Rev. Jonathan Peebles
Our founding fathers left England just because of being pushed around by religion duh...
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
How can anyone compare a minute of silence with religion...duh?!
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Erech Melchizedek Christ Nimrod
Rev. Jonathan Peebles, Jonathan is strong Bible name, a dear close friend of King David before David became king and was on the run from Jonathan's father who was the king.
It is true that the men who left England and founded America left because of being pushed around by religion. Now Americans are being pushed around by politics and religion. What was revealed in the heat of the COVID-19 pandemic is that politics and the Supreme Court control religion and the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. There is no true separation.
Thank you very much for your reply. I AM sincerely your friend, Nimrod, The Spiritual Revolutionary KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS (Revelation 19:11-21).
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Where in the world did did you here the fairytale that our founding fathers were christians,;Nimrod? Next you'll be spreading the lie that this is a Christian nation. You couldn't be more wrong. It's just that some fool christian started that story, and it spread among other fool christians.
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Erech Melchizedek Christ Nimrod
Thank you Carl for taking the time to reply. However We did not say that the founding fathers of America were Christians. We did say "It is true that the men who left England and founded America left because of being pushed around by religion. Now Americans are being pushed around by politics and religion."
However Carl, your statement got Us curious, so We quickly researched it on the internet. The following quote is from a December, 31, 2012 article:
"The religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers is one of the most widely misunderstood characteristics of early America’s leaders. Today, they are usually declared to have been either deists or Christians, but in actuality, most of them were neither. Although the vast majority of the 55 members of the Constitutional Convention were affiliated with the major Christian churches of their day (and would have probably have considered themselves Christian), the number of them that fully accepted the major tenets of the Christian faith is uncertain. A careful reading of many of the Founders’ public and private communications demonstrates they had the following in common: (1) belief in a personal God, (2) familiarity with the Bible, and (3) belief in prayer. But acknowledgement of Christ as their personal Savior and acceptance of the other commonly held Christian beliefs is less manifest..."
That is an interesting article Carl, and it supports what you wrote.
There are many articles. And on the Sweet Money of the United States is written four Powerful Words "In God We Trust." Again Carl Thank you for your intelligent reply. Your Friend Nimrod (Genesis 10:8-10). Peace.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And all this time I could have sworn that the AMA called Alcoholism a disease, that affected alcoholics as a physical allergy coupled with a mental obsession. I guess that year long course to be a substance abuse counselor, along with thirty something years of attending an average of atleast a meeting a day didn't teach me what alcoholism and addiction we're all about, did it Nimblerod? For you just redefined everything I learned about it. And how exactly did you learn your supposed facts. I wonder if you're one of those people who believes everything he thinks.
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Erech Melchizedek Christ Nimrod
Carl is your reply concerning Us??? I AM not familiar with Nimblerod. Therefore I will not reply with an answer. Peace.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That sounds like a reply to me, Nimblerod. Maybe you need more time to imagine another story to tell.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Nimblerod, are you trying to tell me that you have multiple personalities, by referring to yourself as us? Did you know that using three questions marks is not proper English, nor is your capitalization of both or iether of the letters in the word am. I cann tell that you're trying to seem like a grown-up, and someday you will be. In the mean time Nimby, it might be a good thing for you to listen more, and talk less.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
As for that, I might just start addressing you as Crusty Christy Nimblerod, the boyfriend of St. Judas. And I don't care if you and your other personalities ever reply to my or not, Erecha Marie.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Also Melchi Zedekaka chrito Nimroro, you should have put a comma after my name.
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Rev. Jonathan Peebles
Did they forget about church vs state? I would tell them I don't feel comfortable going to school and if my kids went to school there I would fight that BS
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CB Cuff
Why can't it be at the end of class? let the students take a deep breath and chill before moving on to next class. Makes more sense to me. Keep all the religious overtones out of the 'intent & purpose' being suggested by the wingnuts in Florida.
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Manuel Francisco Contreras Jr
Church and State Should have says in the proper place at home before going to school.
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Dan Anderson
I want to see a child roll out a prayer rug and face it toward Mecca. See how long prayer in school will last as directed by staff/educators.
Yes, I understand that this was their way of getting wiggle room for prayer in school, but prayer can take many forms, including the prayer of Pagans, Muslims, and folks who are Jewish (for instance). A quiet moment of reflection can let kids learn to spend a few moments in quiet space before their busy days start and I'm not at all against there. We don't have enough of it in the world.
Basically, I think a moment of quiet for reflection or meditation is not a bad thing. Just because the creators meant it to include prayer does not mean that's the only thing it will be. And even an Atheist can use a moment of quiet now and again. Ohio has used a moment of quiet at the start of the school day for decades. (And no, I'm not an Atheist, but I do identify as Pagan. And I have no problem with this.)
Agreement from this Heathen.
I was a Catholic as a child and youth, prayed a lot in school, usually: "Oh Lord, please help me pass this (insert subject) test!"