A controversial law was approved by the Florida Senate and now heads to Governor Ron DeSantis’ desk, where it is all but certain to be signed into law.
House Bill 1557 – dubbed the ‘Dont Say Gay’ bill by opponents – would severely limit what teachers can say about homosexuality and gender identity in schools.
LGBTQ activists are warning that it will literally kill children, while supporters of the bill say it simply puts control of what children are exposed to back into the hands of parents.
As the bill heads to the governor’s desk for his signature, the legal challenges are already piling up, including, potentially, from the Biden Administration.
Don’t Say Gay?
Much of the controversy around the new bill revolves around speech protections. Under the new law, kindergarten to 3rd-grade teachers are essentially forbidden from mentioning sexual orientation in the classroom. Parents can actually sue school districts or individual teachers if they suspect their child was taught about homosexuality.
LGBTQ advocates say that, at best, this bill will marginalize gay students and make it more difficult for educators to talk about real-world issues like the Pulse nightclub shooting.
At worst, it will put the very lives of LGBTQ kids at risk.
“The Florida state legislature is playing a dangerous political game with the health and safety of LGBTQ+ kids,” says Cathryn M. Oakley, senior counsel at Human Rights Campaign. “The existence of LGBTQ+ people across Florida is not up for debate. We are proud parents, students, and teachers, and LGBTQ+ people deserve to exist boldly, just like everyone else.”
National LGBTQ advocacy group The Trevor Project reported that 42% of LGBTQ youth seriously considered suicide in 2021. Now, they say, this bill strips them of one of the few sympathetic ears many of these kids have: that of their teachers.
However, according to State Rep. Joe Harding, supporters of the legislation just want to keep parents “in the know and involved on what’s going on” when it comes to what children learn about at school.
Those in favor of the change say the media is mischaracterizing what the bill does. "I didn't call the bill the no gay whatever bill. This has all been fabricated by the media,” said State Senator Dennis Baxley. “This does one simple thing, it decides who's in charge."
Other supporters insist the children of gay parents would still be allowed to talk about their parents, for example, but that educators simply can’t plan lessons specifically around LGBTQ issues.
Students Fight Back
There’s one group of people who are really, really not big fans of this new bill: Florida students.
Across the state, students are staging walkouts in protest of the bill, chanting “we say gay” and holding signs that say “protect trans kids.”
And, students warn, if Governor DeSantis signs the bill into law, the walkouts will only escalate.
One organizer, junior Will Larkins of Winter Park High School, said they “wanted to get the attention of our representatives, our senators, because the point is to show them that we are the ones in power. The people are the ones in power, and what they’re doing doesn’t represent us, especially marginalized groups.”
What is your reaction? Should students be allowed to learn about homosexuality and gender identity at school, or should parents get the final say on everything their child hears in the classroom?
[UPDATE 3/28]: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has officially signed the bill into law.
83 comments
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Rev. Terence Barry AC. OCC.
A chairde Dia daoibh go léir agus beannacht.
I spent several hours reading and studying the bill and it doesn't at all affect young children , there is no mention of the term Gay and if anything it goes out of its way to protect children from exploits, it is possibly the least threatening bill introduced for schools , I mean open a bible to whatever page and your child will find explicit content, salary, prostitution, child brides , mass murder, punishment beyond belief, a bible which is in classrooms freely available to children of all ages is rife with sexuality and explitit content.. whilst this Bill has none.. so if the people of Florida or the USA in general have an issue with the bill, they clearly haven't read it, studied it and compare the wording to biblical scripture.. and they clearly haven't fully understood the bible .
Dr. Br. T.M. Ó Béarga A.C. Th.M, D.Div., O.C.C. Cathaoirleach Council of Éirú, Leas Ceann Comhairle a Council Tuatha dé Danann . Prior at Ancient Druidic Order Missionary, Chapter 004 Èirú.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Why can't we declare the Republican Party a hate group?
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Rev Mark D
Haven't you already, and enrolled children into your own hate politics? That's what Democrats do...I know, I was a Democrat for 30 years.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
First, I'm an independent. Second. In the common era it's the Republicans that preach hate/intolerance: The vast majority of white supremacists are Republican, Reps won't let women control their own bodies, Reps are against health care and a living wage, Reps are against non-christian religions and it's the Reps that are anti-LGBTQ. Democrats lack the fight, to lower themselves, to fight dirty like a Republican.
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Lionheart
Because they love the USA and value those who have fought, and died, for freedom and liberty that has given the USA freedom of speech. 🤷🏼
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
If that were true, then Trump wouldn't have insulted our military, by saying heroes don't get captured. Also, if that were true, the insurrection wouldn't have happened.
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Lionheart
Are you under the impression that everything all Presidents say are also the feelings of the party they represent? Do you think all Democrat party members agreed with Biden in July 2021 when he said “You’re not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations”?
How do you feel about all the gaffes President Biden makes? He also denounced Hunters laptop issue, which now looks as though it’s true.
Was Jan 6 an insurrection, or a riot on a far lesser scale than the riots in Portland and elsewhere where business’s and police vehicles were burned to the ground before the election. Is that patriotism?
There will always be radical factions in all party’s that does not reflect the true feelings of the majority.
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Tom
It was an insurrection of the US Capital building to stop the constitutional process of counting states' electors. People were chanting "hang Mike Pence" and erecting a gallows outside and others were actively seeking out members of Congress with zip tie handcuffs. Several capital police officers were brutally attacked with flag poles, hockey sticks, fire hydrants, and more. All this because the Republican party continuously lied before and after the election that massive voter fraud would and did occur despite there being no evidence to support the claims.
The riots in Portland occurred because lawful protestors were being assaulted by far-right extremists looking to goad them into fights and law enforcement used unnecessary force to escalate the already tense situation. When groups protesting police brutality are met with more police brutality people are going to riot.
These two events are drastically different if you actually consider the historical context that lead to their occurrence.
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Lionheart
You and I can only believe what we want to believe from data given to us from the media.
People wanted to believe Russia was involved with Trump, we now know:
Russia gave $0 dollars to Trump.
Russia donated $145 million to the Clinton Foundation.
Russia paid Bill Clinton $500K to give a speech.
Hunter Biden really did own the laptop that many, including Pres Biden, denied, along with much of mainstream media.
All is being slowly revealed and lawsuits will dig up more as time moves on.
Stay tuned!
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Minister Wilson
Hey Lionheart,
Your response has nothing to do with Tom's point...
Russia and Trump were involved are do you think money laundering is not a crime. Have you even read the report by Mueller?
"The investigation found there were at least 170 contacts between Trump or 18 of his associates with Russian nationals..."
Ivanka Trump
"In April 2017, on the very same day Trump dined with Chinese President Xi Jinping, the Chinese government granted preliminary approval for Ivanka's long-sought-after trademarks for her namesake fashion brand..."
Jared Kushner
"Eighteen months into Jared Kushner’s White House tenure, his family’s real estate firm is deepening its financial relationships with institutions and individuals that have a lot riding on decisions made by the federal government"
Trump Jr.
Donald Trump Jr. has ties to former Russian military and intelligence officials...
Donald Trump
"President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer said Tuesday that he paid $130,000 of his own money to a porn star who allegedly had a sexual encounter with the President before his time in office."
"Trump made more than 30,000 “false or misleading” claims during his presidency. Half of those lies were told during his last year in office"
See, the thing about facts is that facts dont require your beliefs to be true...
So, you will overlook all these matters and many others to go after Joe Biden son, Hillary and Bill Clinton...shows that you have a ideaologic bias which seems to be effecting your judgement...
Is Putin also rounding up all the Nazi's in Ukraine too?
Is President Barrack H Obama not a real American, also?
Does Tucker Carlson provide honest journalism?
Did the Democrats and Fauci create Covid-19 in a Ukrainian lab, so Trump would loose the election?
This intentional avoidance of factual matters and cherry picking shows a real lack of insight and right-wing zealotry...
I will tell you what when you start caring about what Trump his daughter, son , son-in law, and lawyer have done then I will care more about Hunter Biden...
Just stop, your embarrasing yourself....
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Lionheart
I am not attempting to imply President Trump is without blame, far from it, which President isn’t without blame during their term of office, but people are very quick to vilify him far faster than they will vilify President Biden’s ineptitude. They loved to nit-pick every detail of Trump, but when it comes to Biden, there appears to be much that is swept under the carpet, because it seems it doesn’t fit the narrative of the lefts agenda.
The MSM, and Social Media, won’t even touch the Hunter-laptop issue, now that it all seems to have been validated, but if it was Trump, they’d be all over it, and you know it. Most were slow to address the Whoopi Goldberg issue, and some didn’t. Why was that I wonder? 🤔.
Let’s not even talk about the incredibly poor decision making leaving Afghanistan. Could it have been any worse?
The dice appear to be stacked in favor of anything the left want to push. It will be really interesting to see what happens after the elections this year if the current House and Senate lose the majority. We could see many indictments if that happens.
Biden pushed unity when he took office. We now have an even wider gap between the left and right, making the promise of unity an utter joke. He will blame anyone other than his own policies, even blaming Putin for rising fuel cost, which started way before the current war on the eastern bloc. His stuttering and bumbling presidency, along with the totally ineffective VP, have become a joke and an embarrassment the world over.
Did Cuomo provide honest journalism? Does Anderson Cooper? We can all point to journalists with an agenda!
So, your cherry picking of events, that you feel are needed to satisfy your socialist belief structure is what it is, a very poor attempt to try and distract attention from a very poor governments performance.
Just stop, you’re embarrassing yourself. 🤭
Best wishes. 🤗
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Minister Wilson
Hey Lionheart,
I appreciate your response; it was fun and amusing...
I now understand more about how you think and where you might be coming from; you believe that “Conservatives” are getting a bad rap, essentially...
I can understand that, but “Conservatives” have been taken over by White Nationalist right-wing autocrats and religious zealots who believe that Corporate rights should be equal to or over the rights of ordinary citizens and the Judeo Christian Bible should be the nation’s rule.
Conservatives or conservatism used to be about conserving the environment and how the government was supposed to work in the best interest of the people and general welfare, over the rights of corporations...https://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/madisoncorporationsnss2.pdf
Sure, some Liberal zealots exist too, but Black Lives Matter or Anti-Fascist groups arent it...I mean, think about it, if someone claims that “all lives matter”, that would include Blacks as well, so what’s the problem?
And if someone is “against” Anti-Fascism, what are they for then?
The white nationist right-wing party like has done a great job at adding words like Black Lives Matter Only, or Antifa are an unorganized group of Terrorists trying to push a political agenda; what political agenda, though? Because terrorism usually has a political agenda or demands, where violence and intimidation are used to achieve political goals...
So what side has been doing this? Liberals or the right-wing?
In your post to Tom, he pointed out this distinction for you, and your response was:
“You and I can only believe what we want to believe from data given to us from the media.”
Hunter Biden?
A mischaracterization of the Mueller report...
Hillary Clinton (lock her up white-nationalist right-wing tropes)
And Bill Clinton’s payment for speech performed years ago?
So, you were implying that these things are all equal...and there not...
See, young-earth creationists believe that the earth is about 6 to 10,000 years old, while scientists assert that the earth’s age is about 4 billion years old.
If the earth is not “exactly 4 billion” years old, it does not mean both sides’ claims are equally valid...
And that, in a nutshell, is what you are doing here...
The United States Capital was attacked, and police officers lost their lives defending it...while in session...
You have armed groups of right-wing insurgents (“election investigators”) going into mostly colored neighborhoods and knocking on people’s doors asking them about fraudulent voting.
We have state legislators trying to pass laws to kick out votes from communities they disagree with, not to mention restricting access to the ballot box
Before you even raise some lame talking point, yes, voter id is acceptable, so what does shutting down the number of polling places have to do with “election integrity.”.
Keep in mind all this is being down without any evidence of the stolen election, 60 plus court cases, and no evidence...
And so, your come back was Hunter Biden’s laptop???
Cuomo has been fired for his misdeeds. Has Tucker Carlson?
Anderson Cooper corrects any reporting mistakes he has made; that’s what real journalists do; integrity does not mean never making any mistakes; it means owning up to and correcting them...
So you keep making these false comparisons as if they are equal and they are not...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Lionheart
Thank you for your reply
Actually no, I actually think all governments get a bad rap, some might be more valid than others. I think the United States and its citizens are getting a bad rap. We have men that have fought for our freedom and liberty, many of which are now on the streets, and many citizens paying ridiculous prices for medication that others countries don't have to pay. We have non-American citizens that that are now being given free monthly handouts, and a place to live. There is something very wrong with that picture. Many, if not all, of those non-Americans are leaving their socialist countries for a better life in a country that is not a socialist country....yet. Perhaps you also find this situation fun and amusing? Is anyone going to do anything about it for the good of this once wonderful country?
The present government of the people is struggling. Big time! If you can't see that, then there is little hope for you, but perhaps you see everything as fun and amusing. I wonder if the homeless, and those killed, beaten, raped, or robbed by non-American citizens, feel the same way as you?
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Minister Wilson
Hey Lionheart,
I see confirmation bias is still alive and well;
Confirmation bias is the tendency for people to seek out information that supports the views they already hold. It also leads people to interpret evidence in ways that support their pre-existing beliefs, expectations, or hypotheses...
I know you can read the English language, so I am presuming that you understand that this conversation was supposed to be about the Florida law passed and not the State’s government or a U.S. government’s lack of “efficiency”.
We have come full circle now because the basis of “Matthew Mastrogiovanni’s” original comment to you was about Trump’s insult about American services members not being regarded as heroes because of their captured status. And the Jan 6 attempted coup of the U.S. Capital; while it was in session...as a noticeable lack of patriotic fervor...by republicans
Then you attempted to cast dispersions on Covid-19 vaccinations and elude to the riot in Portland, Oregon over police brutality as a “response.”
Subsequently, I pointed out that you missed the point and provided you a litany of counter-examples to dissuade your pearl-clutching rhetoric about Hunter Biden’s laptop issue...
You then accused “me” of “cherry-picking events” to satisfy some unspecified social belief structure to distract from poor government performance... My point has continued to be how is this Florida law is any different from CRT?
CRT is a non-issue “Trumped-up” by right-wing autocrats to encourage White nationalists and White supremacists to support republicans because of their like-mindedness. This same tactic is being used to provide red meat to white evangelic Christian zealots with laws like these and issues concerning reproductive rights...
According to USA.gov;
The federal government does not offer grants or “free money” to individuals to start a business or cover personal expenses, contrary to what you might see online or in the media. Websites or other publications claiming to offer “free money from the government” are often scams. Report them to the Federal Trade Commission. (https://www.usa.gov/grants)
You can also use this source to correct any other cognitive distortions regarding benefit programs and the eligibility requirements necessary for applying to these programs.
There are no “free handouts” this is a white nationalist talking point...to otherize different groups of people.
You don’t live in a “free-market” economy, Lionheart; this is a mixed economy...
“The United States has a mixed economy. It works according to an economic system that features characteristics of both capitalism and socialism. A mixed economic system protects some private property and allows a level of economic freedom in the use of capital, but also allows for governments to intervene in economic activities in order to achieve social aims and for the public good..”...(link here).
Crime is an issue but continuing to throw more money at police departments does not address the root of criminal activity; it is a response to illegal activity. Providing more community support for crisis interventions offers better ways to deter crime.
So, with all over your deflection, dogging, and disregarding if you really believed that it was important for Americans not to be killed, raped, beaten, or robbed, why support legislation that otherizes Gay people? Aren’t they “Americans” too?
I will not continue down this semantic parsing or bias rationale because I don’t think you are being intellectually honest...
So, either address the issue at hand, “Florida Bill,” and its differences with “CRT”, if any, or just kindly excuse yourself and move on...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Lionheart
I see my comments to you went over very well then 🤪
I would suggest you try to not thing too much from your left brain. Please note that those states with the highest crime rates seem to have the same type of thought idealogical structure as yourself.
"Providing more community support for crisis interventions offers better ways to deter crime."
It's not going down very well is it? Perhaps the looters need to be told they are being very naughty. Is that how you would do it Minister Wilson?
You are very clearly out in left field and don't have a very good grasp on reality, but.......not to worry though, I'm sure Biden and Harris will get it all sorted out. They will stem the tide of Illegal immigration; the cost of living will eventually go down; people will forget the most disastrous military blunder ever by any President; gas prices will eventually drop to where they were; there won't be any food shortages; Democrat States will drastically reduce crime; homelessness will be improved; our US citizens will be taken care of first; the bartender, AOC, will be given a Nobel Peace prize; Hunter will get away with it; and Hillary will survive any legal issues, as she always does. The future of the United States seems very healthy and rosy doesn't it?
PS: I just read of another illegal immigrant raping and killing a young US female citizen in Chicago (Blue State). What a naughty boy! Not to worry...eh Minister Wilson, he'll be bailed soon with a slap on the wrist. That'll teach him!
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Minister Wilson
Hey Lionheart,
Blah, blah, blah, dodge, deflect, repeat...
So once again,
"either address the issue at hand, “Florida Bill,” and its differences with “CRT”, if any, or just kindly excuse yourself and move on..."
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Minister Wilson
Hey Lionheart,
All we hear is blah, blah, blah, deflect, dodge, repeat...
"either address the issue at hand, “Florida Bill,” and its differences with “CRT”, if any, or just kindly excuse yourself and move on..."
Minister Wilson
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Lionheart
I see I hit a nerve. It must be very tough right now being a Democrat trying to deflect from the way this country is going, and attempting to defend Dems policies as we slowly go down the drain. Always remember, you voted for this. I understand your need wanting to move on and stick your head in the sand. It must be very embarrassing for you right now. Imagine how difficult it must be for those trying to correct Brandon’s gaffes when he doesn’t stick to the script others have made for him. Oh well…only 33 months to go….if we last that long as a nation. 🤷🏼
It would be nice if Brandon excused himself and just moved on. I guess we just have to live through it as best we can and hope for the best. Keep your fingers crossed, it’s all we can do.
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Minister Wilson
Lionheart,
That is precisely the answer I was looking for...When your arguments are so weak and unsustainable, in light of the facts, you then resort to trying to goad people and "trigger" an emotional response...
Ha, as I have already told you and clearly shown, no one should take you seriously...
So, when you get stuck and cannot answer simple logical questions you think teasing and silly taunts strikes a "nerve"...Ha, ha, ha...
Have you ever you considered changing your name from "Lionheart" to "Taserface" because it is metaphorical and strikes fear into anyone that happens to hear it...
I get goosebumps just thinking about it...
So, I will accept your silly but cute concession...
Thanks Lionheart...
Take care,
Minister
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Lionheart
And yours is the answer I was waiting for Mr Wilson. I totally understand, it must be very tough for you right now being a Democrat.
Questions are as difficult for you to answer, in an intelligent way, as they are for Brandon with his cue cards, not being able to answer simple logical questions by selected journalists at Press Briefings. It must be quite embarrassing knowing you voted for that.
Hang on to your hat, there's going to be much more to come that will send his lapdogs searching for words to correct his gaffe's. The upcoming elections are going to get very interesting. Many Dem's are saying that if they knew then, what they know now, about him they would never have voted for him.
Voters are now seeing the female clown of Pelosi, the very inept bumbling penguin of Jerry Nadler, The Buffoon bartender AOC, and the laughing Hyena of Kamala Harris, for what they truly are.
Have you thought of changing your name to John Partin, or is that really him penning these idiotic replies. Surely you can do better than him, or possibly not. I will accept your defeat after November.
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Minister Wilson
Lionheart,
Ahh shucks, now your just being silly...
This just goes to show how wrong you are and have always been...
I'm not a Democrat...
Take Care
Minister Wilson
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Lionheart
Oh my gosh! Thank goodness for that. There is hope! You had me really concerned there for a minute 🤗
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Minister Wilson
Lionheart,
I am glad you are relieved, so either,
address the issue at hand, “Florida Bill,” and its differences with “CRT”, if any, or just kindly excuse yourself and move on...
Stop avoiding the issue with all these distractions, or concede the point, that this is a republican ploy because sexual orientation and gender identity are not subject even taught to K-3 graders...
So, stop the facade about "protecting parents from something that does not exist"...
Minister Wilson
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Lionheart
I'm very curious now, do you live a dictatorial life of telling people what they have to do? I see you gave me TWO options. Thank you so much for telling me to STOP avoiding the issues, and STOP the facade.... Are you sure you are not a Democrat? They seem to have similar type policies of dictating what citizens have to do. You certainly come across as being that way.
Anyway, there is another third option, which you might just have inadvertently overlooked. It's ok, I know it's easily done when you have your uniform on. The third option is to honor the First Amendment of freedom of speech, and not be dictated to as to what I need to say in this forum, so I will just very kindly carry on addressing topics in my own way, whether my comments complies with the topic, or not. I'm sorry if I am not complying with the way you want me to be, but that's what comes of living in a country that has freedom and liberty.
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Minister Wilson
Clap, clap,...Clap
Lionheart, it seems your style of debate tends to lean towards obfuscation and deflection as some sort of tactic...
When Matthew Mastrogiovanni asked;
Why can't we declare the Republican Party a hate group?
Your response was;
Because they love the USA and value those who have fought, and died, for freedom and liberty that has given the USA freedom of speech.
That is what started this whole debate was your quixotic, full-throated edorsement of the republican party....and their attempts to just throw copious amounts of excrement on the wall about every issue...all under the guuise of "alternative facts"...
So, riddle me this Lionheart;
If the republicans "love" freedom of speech. and liberty so much, why try to take those rights away from other groups like school teachers, gays, black voters, and their own members that disagree with the party...
Pretty much every idea that does not benefit corporations, white-nationalists, religious zealots, or white supremacy is deemed socialist and un American...
So republican's make up fake conditions, like children are learning college levels courses such as CRT because equality and equity were mentioned..they create phony scenarios claiming to "protect parents" from subjects that are not even taught...like sexual orientation and gender identity taught to kindergarteners, which has never happended...
And the majority of the ignorant republican mob does not question and goes right along with it because the operate from the bais of fear, ignorance, and religious zealotry...under the guise of "values"...
They do not want what is best for our country they want to take over this country with their high minded yet empty "values"...and you know it..
So cut the crap...I bet you the republicans of today would not even have voted for civil rights, or getting rid of segregation, or interracial marrige they would have "left it up to the states" because you know, freedom...
This ignorance is also extended to public health concerns with anti-masks rallies,anti-vaccines all during a global pandemic mind you, because freedom right?
So, whoever supports a party dead set on destroying the very goverment that is supposed to serve the peoples best interest, I am against...
I am not a dictator, tearchers are not dictators, freedom of speech allows someone to yell fire in a crowded theatre but if there is not fire then that person should suffer the consequences...
So, ya I am not against, freedom, I am not for lying and misleading folks with provably false narratives to gain politcal power...
Your not answering my questions because of freedom or tyranny, no, you are not answering them because you know it exposes the irrational idealogy and misuse of founding principles this country was supposed to be based on....
I could not care less, if you answer or not, but you know, that I know, your just "bull poopin" around trying to get a rise out of someone...since your arguments tend to avoid any of the points that expose their weaknesses...
So bravo, lionheart you have learned to avoid, deflect and dodge meaningful discusions on the basis of some warped right-wing nationalist ieadology...congrats
Now go ahead, "come back with"
Nancy Pelosi, is old, AOC is bartending, Hillary Clinton had sex with Putin's grandson, Nadler looks like a penguin, Zelensky is a thug threating russia, access to healthcare is socialisim, racisim is made up because Dixicrats started it, the confedracy should be honored with statues, white kids should not be taught history because they might feel bad, gays are not people deserving of rights, the Covid-19 vaccine is different from all the other vaccine requirements, gradeschoolers are being taught to hate the police because CRT, dont forget Hunters laptop and Faucci's labs in Ukraine, the election was stolen except for the republican down ballot wins [those were legit] just trump's part was changed by china and the democrats, etc etc etc....
Like trump said, and the republicans have shown they love the uneducated...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Michael Barton
Has the author of this blog post read the bill? The gist of the bill is that it allows parents to have more rights. Why would little kids need an in-depth study of the pulse night-club shooting? The bill wouldn't prevent teachers from talking about the shooting, but it would prevent the teachers from getting pervy and talking sex to minors.
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Jennifer Lynn Rittmann
How about we change the name to the Don't say Straight bill... This bill doesn't just focus on one side of the argument, it also prevents teachers from talking about straight and hetero things as well.
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Guy Sutherland McLaren
Anybody wishing to teach CRT needs to be re-educated. This odious experiment is creating more hate, not less.
It is creating more confusion not less. We need to look at people as individuals not as part of a group.
In my youth I agitated against apartheid and censorship. Our fight was in vain, instead of killing the stupidity, it has changed management.
Imagine my surprise that people are arguing for segregation, arguing for denying people's freedoms, all the things we found odious in my youth.
They are back with a vengeance, under management of people with the right melatonin count.
Forcing issues rarely gets the anticipated result,
Oh the authors of the bill may also need re-education.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Interestingly, the mythological Jesus took advantage of what was 2000 or so years ago, was
“The Golden Rule” (first articulated by the Hindus, then the Buddhists, centuries before the early Christians began to attribute the Golden Rule to the mythological Jesus) clearly suggested, to non-Trumpapile Christians, that instead of “hating the gay” that they instead “love the gay in much the same way they used to covet their neighbor’s wives - all of them.
The Christian God, who never married, nor ever had any other sexual encounters — miraculously had a son by using a Holy Ghost to impregnate the Virgin Mary — when she was merely a twelve year old.— and the mythological Jesus never married, nor did he (even though being only mythological) have any children (contrary to what was written in the Da Vinci Code).
And now Trump cult homophobes “hate the gay” until they determine that there’s a homosexual amongst their family members — then they quickly “love the gay as much as they love DJT” which now makes it difficult to be a homophobic member of the clergy.
Will there be “gays” in the mythological Christian Heaven? - it all depends on how much more Trump decides to force the GOP to keep hating the gay — and how successful the GOP is in destroying liberal arts in our nation’s public colleges and universities.
Bishop William Dusenberry DD, PhD, twice sainted, plus four doctorates, from the ULC, from the ULC.
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Rev Frankie PG
Sex ed to 3rd graders and above is astonishing and that's what this bill is truly all about. Today's school systems are failing so miserably that the push for free two year college admissions repeatedly comes up. The need for buckling kids down to learn their ABCs,123s, Science and Technology has been overshadowed by these "woke" mobs that have been destroying our nation for decades now. I am gay and I do wish it would've been more accepted back in the early 90s. Being exposed to it in the 5th grade or later, when kids are starting to discover their bodies would be much better. I made my way through it with the good graces of God, SEVERAL prayers to my Shepherd, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit filling my capsule with the Fruits of The Spirit.
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Dan Anderson
How sad that a group that claims to want to bring people together are actually pushing people apart, dividing with ignorance and hostility.
The "so-called Christians" who want to condemn homosexuality have absolutely no idea about the historicity and cultural influence in the writings of the Bible. They take modern assumptions and apply those to the writings, when those passages have NOTHING to do with homosexuality. The comments I hear are usually in the realm of, "That is what the Bible says! My preacher said so!" and "What else could it mean?!!" If they saw and learned what these passages actually refered to, they would know differently.
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Gwendolyn Lord
We never discussed sexuality in Grammer school were savvy NYC kids. We know two of our teachers were gay. I knew about gay folk. My mother had gay friends. I never cared. I was raised by a liberal mother.
Keeping secrets, making something forbidden, is unhealthy. A short answer to a curious kid won't kill them or corrupt them. Our society is so weird and repressed about healthy sexual information. It is very sad.
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rebadams7
This bill should be called the let kids be kids bill. No child that age should be indoctrinated in to anything more than polite classroom manners and a grounding in the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic. Our kids need to be left to play have imagination and be innocent. They have their entire lives as adults to deal with all the permutations of sexuality. Let’s make sure they can read and write and handle computations. That’s the job of school.
If a child has a question, it should be answered simply And the parents should be notified that the child is going down this path of inquiry. Parents are still the first educators and need to be respected as such-
Lisa Rose Morton
Legislation is ancient. What about the kids who have homosexual parents?Are they not allowed to talk about their parents? The fact that the Supreme Court made gay and lesbian marriage legal Should tell legislator Is some important information. The subject of sexual orientation is Not about having sex but about civil rights. Please stop living in the stone age.
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Olivier Ammour-Mayeur
Well, then, lo let children express themselves, "to be left play have imagination and be innocent" this bill should not pass!
Looks like you completely forgot what it is like to be a child!
Letting children express themselves, means letting them express ALSO who they are! And, no, "people" do not "deal with all the permutations of sexuality" "as adults", it starts in Kindergarten!
It is NOT about sexual activity, it is about sexual orientation... this has nothing to do with the other!
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Mrknowitall
This is about sexual orientation, not everyone is born gay
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Deacon Michael
That is a very big AMEN to this.
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AetherAgent
To title this post with the "Don't Say Gay" rhetoric is irresponsible. The bill does nothing of the sort. It simply prevents our youngest children from being indoctrinated with the sexual viewpoints of one side of a very controversial issue.
It makes no moral judgment and it makes no restrictions for older age groups. It only seeks to leave this decision to parents while their children are at a most impressionable age.
If you must insist on putting a hyperbolic tag on the bill, it would be equally valid to call it the "Anti Grooming" bill, which would be no less inflammatory and just as inaccurate.
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Stephanie A Willey
And what exactly is the grooming you refer to ?
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Children K thru 2nd grade would be better learning to read than getting indoctrinated by anybody about anything.
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John P Maher
De SANTIS is GAY THATS WHY ALL THE BULLSHIT !
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Charles Jude Platt
DeSatan, Florida's governor and all Qpublicans are all assholes. If we were to vote for any of them, we would be voting for all types of discrimination. What's in the Koo-Aid down there. It's sickening to see it.
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Alicia Szot
Apparently, you're drinking the "let's bash anyone who doesn't think like me" Kool-Aid.
This bill has nothing to do with discriminating against anyone. It's just saying that sexual matters should NOT be taught in grades K through 2. If parents want to teach these things to their kids who are these ages, then they could do it.
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Minister Wilson
Again Mrs. Szot,
Who was teaching these kids about "sexual matters"? Is just being Gay a "sexual matter" because a person is gay? Do you have any evidence of a curriculum about Homosexuality sex ed for K-2 graders being taught at any Florida school?
I am not bashing you, I am trying to help you think more clearly by asking a few reasonable questions, was CRT a problem too? because it was not even taught in grade school but still "banned", so what are you talking about specifically?
A teacher answering a question by a student? What was the problem being addressed here that required a "law"?
Making an issue out of a non-issue is politcal pandering...I am sorry that you have difficulty seeing that these legal stunts are just political theater designed to appeal to a certain group of voters...
Ron DeSantis does not seem to care about children's health by banning masks what makes this any different? He cares about votes he is not some right wing hero protecting parents rights...
Minister Wilson
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Olivier Ammour-Mayeur
Your psot clearly shows you do not know the content of the bill! It is not about "Sexual matters", since this has nothing to do with what the teachers are teaching in their classes! It is about "sexual orientation"!!! One has nothing to do with the other, only the perv' like you still continue to mix things up in your not so smart brains...
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Cindy L Edgar
A lot of kids have same sex parents there's nothing wrong with it I do not believe that anybody how's the right to tell anybody what they can do and what they can't study in or out of school if the parents think that it's going to stop and they're the ones that are going to teach them what they want to teach them then those are the parents that should keep their kids home and never let them leave the house I'm bisexual I like men and women my kids and my grandkids all know this
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Daniel Gray
Say what you want, but DO NOT mess with the children. When they are old enough to understand what gay and straight mean, then talk to them with the permission of their parents. But DO NOT think Florida teachers that you somehow have the right to start doing this to kids in kindergarten to the 5th grade. No matter what anyone tries to tell you, these children are still of the age where they cant even decide what they want for dinner, let alone what gay and straight means.What should have been included is that ANY teachers-school district-principal-school board or anyone else employed by a school, shall be terminated with prejudice if they defy this law.
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Olivier Ammour-Mayeur
And why on earth don't you let the kids decide for themselves??!! If they are "so special" to you, why don't you let them speak?? Stop using the kids to push your own discriminatory agenda! Hope you do not have kids, otherwhise they must be very sad ones...
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Daniel Gray
when you can show the kids understand what this is in Kindergarten through 3rd grade, then maybe. But why do you think its ok for some unknown to try and tell your child what to believe according to their beliefs?
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Minister Wilson
Hey Mr. Gray
Could you please provide us with the Homosexual studies curriculum being taught at Florida schools for K-3 graders?
You seem to get all huffy and puffy over strawmen...Unless, of course, this was a main topic which was being forced on kids...And not some teach answering a question they were asked by a curious child.
So, please show us why this type of legislation was necessary before throwing a hissy. By the sounds of it you probably believe that CRT was a real issue too that needed to be banned, don't cha?
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Daniel Gray
hey Wilson, maybe if you actually READ the bill you would understand as in section 3 it states:
"3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards"
Which is one of the reason for the bill as to stop teachers from starting their BS for the kids in kindergarten.
But then again I wouldnt expect you to accept this as it sounds like you want this taught to all kids regardless of age or what the parents want.
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Minister Wilson
Hey Mr. Gray,
Okay what are the states standards
"not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards"
Do you know or is this more right-wing BS...? Like CRT, right..
Whatever the state deems apprpriate could well extend beyond the third grade.
Plus, show me what teachers have been teaching this age group of children, please.
Your surface level comprehension always impresses me.
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Daniel Gray
what part of my previous post dont you want to or seem to understand? And by calling names like you just did you destroyed any point you were trying to make as it shows a complete lack of intelligence or a leg to stand on when you have to resort to childish actions to try and prove your point. And calling yourself a minister does not give you any more air of authority then the rock in my front yard. Most states refuse to accept a claim of a license issued by people who work out of a former used car building> In Ohio alone they have had well over 300 "ministers" who received their certificates from here banned from preforming anything to do with religious rights and they have even had one from from a city in Northwest Ohio be told directly that he is not to represent himself as a minister in any way and has notified all of the people he claimed to have married that their marriages are not and will not be recognized by the state.
So try again
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Minister Wilson
Hey Mr Gray,
The part of your previous post was to Olivier Ammour-Mayeur when you asked him
"...why do you think its ok for some unknown to try and tell your child what to believe according to their beliefs?"
As I have asked you and others here before who is teaching kids what to believe? Where is the sexual orientation K-3 curriculum or lesson plan that instructs young students?
Please, show me the name I called you....I dont call people names I question their logic and rationale....So, if I have not called you any names and instead questioned your demeanor and animated over the top rhetoric then that shows I am intelligent and not childish, right?
Keep in mind that the whole time of back and forth banter you still have not answered my question about what these children were supposed to be being taught in the classroom because I think you know it is, as you put it, BS...
Just like CRT, what grade school across the nation was teaching K-12 students Critical Race Theory? None...And I think you know that too...
So, it leaves me wondering what is the real issue for you and people who think,like you?
Gays are ickky, or Black's need to know their place and stop bringing up the past political, economic, and social wrongs, you know, just get over it, right?
I do not claim to have any more authority than anyone else I have reason and critical thinking skills, and for you and people like you even that is too much, so you have to otherize, attack my title of minister, and claim that Gay issues are simply BS just like your predecessors...I presume
You claim that this legislation is necessary to stop some sort of indoctranation attempt to convert children rather than educating them about real life social issues when a teacher is asked a question by a student..
You have still not addressed CRT, and you have not shown that this law, was or is, neccessary because politicians always use children and fear to impose and promote some of the worst social behavior and culture ignorance...And then it seems that you take pride in that ignorance..as some sort of badge of honor....
So, to be clear, I dont care about names or titles or some BS indoctronation efforts, unless you have proof...
What were teachers teaching these kids about sexual orientation? What K-12 classrooms were teaching CRT?
So please, answer these very simple questions or simply concede the point...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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kent thomas barr
I see Minister Wilson received his $25 certificate that makes him a bonified Minister just in time to write his deep and important post's. Thank Heaven we have him in the fold to promote wholesome ideas and to help Jesus with the work.
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Minister Wilson
Greetings Mr. barr
Why would the "Son of god" need my help?
And, if you think about it the term, "bonified Minister" is an oxymoronic characterization, at best....
However, it is interesting though, that after reading such "...deep and important..." posts as you claimed, you natural instinct, as one of jesus's "flock", was to use snide remarks to attack a certificate, rather than presenting "your own" sound argument for addressing any discordant feelings...those writting have seemed to cause...
Huh...
Nonetheless, I appreciate your response, sarcastic or otherwise...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Nicholas J Page
Hey desantisWhy don't you walk out to sea til your hat floats or play on route 66. All these bills being passed your be to scared to Fxxt this only happens in America .What a waste of time and money Leave the gays alone
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Susan Claire Schloeder
The boll says that K thru 2nd grade should be protected from teachers teaching about sexuality. If a child goes to a teacher with a problem with his/her sexuality, that teacher can help them. Kids won't die. That's ridiculous. People should read the bill and stop listening to the lying media
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Robert James Ruhnke
The media isn’t lying. It’s not what’s in the bill, it’s how it will be enforced that’ll be the problem. It’s setting queer people 30 years. Tell that to the kids whose parents are same sex couples. The problem with the bill, is that the worst of it was taken out. But not forgotten.
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Alicia Szot
Kids with same-sex parents are well aware of same-sex relationships as are their friends. I'm sure these parents are more open to discussion regarding LGBTQ issues than hetero parents, so I don't think this bill will affect them much.
The way people are talking about this bill you'd think that Florida is trying to make being gay illegal. That's far from the truth.
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Mark Hannon
So today we will be O.K. with stopping discussion of sexuality for K thru 2nd grade. That seems like a sane idea. 5, 6 and 7 year old kids probably don't think much about sex.
In a year or two we raise it to 4th graders because kids and teachers haven't talked about sexuality at all for a year or two anyway. And let's get rid of the books that these kids might find in the library while we are at it.
In a few years we'll be right back in the 1950's! Yeah!
This is from personal experiences, sweetie, and has nothing to do with the media.
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Alicia Szot
Apparently, no one has taken the time to actually read what this "Don't say gay" bill is about. It bars educators in grades Kindergarten through third grade, from teaching the kids alternative lifestyles (gay, trans, bi, etc). These are kids aged FIVE though EIGHT! Why should it be a school's responsibility to teach kids about any of this?
Kids ask questions. If they go to a house where their friend has 2 moms or 2 dads, they will ask about it. This is the parents' responsibility to discuss these things with their kids. It's also up to the parents to have open discussions with their kids and not judge them. When kids are 5, 6, 7 and 8, they hug ALL their friends. This doesn't mean that if a 5 year old girl hugs her best friend and says "I love you", that they're gay. It seems that today, parents jump the gun with this and immediately go to label the child as gay or trans or whatever.
When I was a kid, I liked "boy" things. I played with my friends' brothers' train sets and racing sets and building blocks. I would also play baseball with them in the schoolyard. Back then, girls like me were called "TomBoys". I pretty much outgrew this, but to this day, I prefer wearing sweats and rarely wear a dress or heels. I don't own makeup and never have owned makeup. If I was that kid today, with today's parents, they would be asking me if I had a "gender identity" issue.
My D-I-L grew up knowing that her aunt was gay. She didn't learn it in school. She just grew up knowing that "Aunt Sue" had a girlfriend she called "Aunt Sandy". It's natural to her. Now that they're married, my grandson visits them frequently and calls them "Aunt Sue and Aunt Sally". It's natural to him. There was never big deal made about it.
Let kids be kids. Instead of taking away a parent's right to school their kids in the REAL world, teach the parents how to speak with their kids about real life matters in an age appropriate way. No child between the ages of 5 and 8 needs to learn about LGBTQ lifestyles in schools. Also, the label being given to the bill (Don't say gay) is a misnomer. No one is is making it illegal to use the word "gay". No one is making it illegal to BE gay. They're just saying that teaching about this in school doesn't belong in grades Kindergarten through third grade. Period.
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Minister Wilson
Sorry, Mrs. Szot,
But I think you sound really naive...
While it is true, that headlines are usually designed to attract attention, you make this bill sound as though it is completely innocuous and necessary.
You have also asked several people, if they have even read the Bill, and I would like to know have you read the K-3 curriculums to show where teachers are having lesson plans drawn up about Homosexual studies...
You see, I am quite sure you have heard the big "Right-wing" push to ban Critical Race Theory (CRT); however, CRT is not taught in grade school...Likewise, and you can verify this for yourself, there are not any gay study curriculums taught in K-3 either...
This bill is nothing more than red meat for would be voters, De Santis is attempting to court...Just like CRT
So as a pretext, any teachers that happen to be gay could be fired or just not hired, any books that might fall into childrens hands could be banned, Gay couples will find it harder to enroll their kids into certain schools, and the list goes on and on...
Your view on this topic seems very myopic because you are only focusing on the headlines, and not really considering why something like this even required the force of law...
Well, CRT was not taught either so the majority of bills did not actually mention CRT in the Bill, but we see the effects on book banning, equity, history, equality, because little white kids might fell guilty, and no longer proud of their country, etc.
It is amazing to hear some of this rhetoric because it was never about "CRT" in the first place...So, I think you are being a little gullible because a bill like this was never even necessary to begin with...It is simply a pretext, for establishing political and religious pandering.
I really hope you remeber what you have wrote here and then reflect on it when this eventually happens from a manifestation of laws like these...which are making it harder and harder for teachers to avoid certain topics...or lose their jobs over any slight.
So, then we will have nothing left but right-wing zealots teaching our children...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Alicia Szot
There is no reason for teachers to discuss sexual orientation with children 5 - 8 years old. As I've said, that's up to the parents to decide.
I have a 5 year old grandson. He loves visiting his aunts. No one has told him that they're lesbians. He just knows that "Sue and Sally" are his aunts and are married. There was no reason to discuss their sexual orientation with him because their marriage is as natural to him as his parents' marriage.
Kids with 2 moms or 2 dads look at their families as normal. It IS normal....for them. Florida's bill doesn't make being gay illegal....it just doesn't want teachers to talk about sexual orientation to young kids. There's no need. The less of a deal people make about labeling others the less of a big deal it will be for our kids. It'll just BE.
Now, tell me....how many 5 - 8 year olds do you know that have come out as gay? Kids that age are pretty much asexual. By not making a big deal about things, kids will grow up knowing sexual orientation is NOT a big deal and they just are who they are.
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Minister Wilson
Hello Mrs. Szot,
I appreciate your response...
I thought you were naïve before; however, now I think you are being somewhat cynical and hypocritical.
I am glad that your 5-year-old grandson loves his Aunties, and usually, kids are taught to hate because they naturally express joy, curiosity, and love for others (Reineke, Sonsteng, and Gartrell 2008). Yet, you suggest that your grandson, even though he is not affected emotionally or psychologically affected by a gay marriage, only remains protected because the term “Lesbian” was not taught.
This is silly...
So, the point of contention is that you and your family believe that the term “Lesbian” is strictly an adult subject. So, do you believe exposing the child to the gay couple but not educating them early on “about the terminology” interferes with their “normal” childhood?
I disagree...
While I am not a fan of labeling, our society is based on basic social categorizations; such as police-man/woman, fireman/woman, doctor, teacher, white, black, etc.
The labeling only becomes an issue when false generalizing attributions define or characterize a group as a whole. Such as all police officers are bad, all blacks are lazy, or all whites are racists.
Additionally, people have different experiences and upbringing; not all situations are the same, so what may have “worked” for your family (don’t say gay) might not work for others.
Furthermore, I have asked you to produce any evidence or proof that Florida teachers have Gay curriculums to teach young children...about sexual orientation.
If that curriculum does not exist, what is the bill for? It would seem to impede a teacher’s observations and discussions about issues related to sexual orientation. So, for instance, a young boy is being teased and bullied for playing with girls or girl toys could no longer be talked about openly. Why?
This essentially stigmatizes normal, acceptable behavior as taboo. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill-is-so-dangerous
Children as young as 3 to 4 years of age often show signs of non-gender-conforming behavior https://www.science.org/content/article/toddler-play-may-give-clues-sexual-orientation
Children are more at risk for suicide growing up in the proverbial closet when they cannot seek help and discuss their feelings openly.
Your “sticking your head in the sand” approach is unnecessarily cruel and cynical and might not work for many other children... besides your grandson.
I also see that you avoided CRT altogether,why?
Like this bill, do you believe that CRT was a real threat for children too?
Even though it is not taught in grade school, you see my point, right? Sexual orientation is not something teachers teach. It is designed to silence them or third parties from answering any questions about sexual orientation...
You seem smart enough to know better...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Olivier Ammour-Mayeur
Ummm, probably because it saves lives to know that everyone is validated into existence?? But, that proabaly never crossed your mind...
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Clay Serenbetz
This bill will cost young lives. It will increase suicides and justify hate for those so inclined. For a group that supports the Right to Life, this bill exposes their hypocrisy.
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Dave J
A Florida man...
When I first heard of this, I thought it was just going to be another stupid thing a man did in Florida. Now I see it's a bunch of them. Everyone who supports children should stop spending money in Florida. Disney supports LQBTQ+ so should tell DeSantis to take a long walk off a short pier. Monetarily support any opponents of this bill, Mouseland!
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Rev Mark D
Have you actually read the bill? And there is no sex education in grades K-3 in the first place, and nowhere does it say or hint or imply at all about saying gay. I think from your comment that you have not read the bill. Probably a good idea to do so before commenting further so as to not look stupid twice, it's not an unreasonable bill.
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Minister Wilson
Excuse me Rev Mark,
But, I am sure you understand that Critical Race Theory (CRT) is not taught in K-12 either...And yet this has not prevented Republican lawmakers from passing numerous bills to stop it...
So in the same vein, its not the wording of the bill per se', that concerns some, it is the manner in which it supports arbitrary and random decisions and actions by school boards, principles, and teachers to impose their own presupposed moral views about homosexuallity.
If we were to be honest the bible should not be taught to children as well, until they are older and can think critically. Because there really is no basis in reality regarding evidence or proof of such things only faith and trust as an idea....
So, teaching children about the existence of homosexuallity is far more useful than faith, since one is real and the other is not (based on any proof or evidence) ..
So I tend to agree more with Dave J....
The bible has some good parts, but it also condones owning other people as property, incest, rape, mass murder, genocide, animal sacrifice,burning in a lake of fire, etc... So, why then would we allow our children to be exposed to these "atrocities" but withold useful real information, due to their young age?
You seem to be assuming that there is some legitimate interest by the state to curtail this manner
of speech, within the same misguided, way that CRT has been "banned" in some states even though it is not taught...So, have you ever read what these children were being "taught" about homosexuality, before basing your opinion about the bill's reasonableness?
Homosexuallity is related to sexual orientation of different people, not sexual activities, as you appear to be pressuming, with your sexual education comment...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Mrknowitall
It's a wonder you've survived so long
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Rev Troy
As for your long winded post. You are right that CRT is not presently taught in most schools. It is being taught in some. Why in 2022 would it even be considered to present it to children. Dr King said it best, that he wanted his children to be judged by the content of their character not the cold of their skin. CRT teaches just the opposite of that. But sexual education is the responsibility of the parents not the public school system with does not prepare them with the skills necessary to be productive citizens. It fills their heads with nonsense. I am sorry for your children if you failed to educate them with morals.
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Minister Wilson
Rev Troy,
Nope,
CRT is taught in college as a legal theory, not in grade school. That fact that your are willing to conceede this point partially is more disturbing because you have altered your reality to match a false narrative. Do you have any of the curriculum Florida teachers were using to teach children K-3 graders about sex?
Please, stop quoting Martin Luther King he does not speak for all people and quite frankly you seem to be intentionally leaving out the part that King meant as for white arrogance and ignorance about other races struggles and false attributions sterotypically placed on their colored individuals character as a monolithic homogeneous group of people.
So, the fact that you bring up King "removes all doubt" that you do not understand much about CRT...because CRT address history and institutions, not people, or the individual with racist views.
For example, the fact that Jim Crow, Black Codes, and segregation was historically enforced by law enforcement officers has had an effect on training and predisppositions today for handling crime, and how to best reduce, or control for it.
If an accurate account of US history creates some uneasiness or discomfort for you or others, then just imagine how the people recieving such treatement felt...Which by the way, was fully endorsed by the American goverment and the majority of society. (e.g. Lynching post cards)
If they teach kids about a mother and father does not mean they are teaching about what happens in the bedroom. You seem to be confabulating "sex" or "sexual activity" with sexual orientation. So if a person is gay and wants to marry some one of the same sex it is teaching children about the diverse make-up of society not how they conduct themslves in the bedroom...
Fun Fact: The states with the highest unwanted pregenancy rates usually come from states with the lowest rates of sex education so if you aslo claim that abortion is wrong then you might want to reevaluate...your views about sex education...
Lastly, it may be nonesense to you be real for others (King), children require a well-rounded knowledge to become productive citizens. Math, Reading, science, and cultural intelligence adds to their understanding...
I can tell by your attempted slight that you will most likely ignorne these words and continue to think you have a good grasp on the world and reality...But this also shows a complete lack of understanding and arrogance on your part because your essentially claiming parents that have gay children have somehow failed to teach them morals...(ignorance and arrogance "check").
So, I apologize for the "long" post but I try to be thorough and careful when talking to others that I am attempting to help educate...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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kent thomas barr
Sounds like Minister Wilson got his $25 diploma just in time to write this deep and inciteful post.
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Rev Mark D
Well gosh, Wilson.
"It's not an unreasonable bill" does not anywhere allow you to assume or presume anything about me. You appear to be taking unreasonable license with your assumptions, thus perhaps all of your reasoning is suspect.
Same for your conflation of education with your ideas about political/social engineering by introducing and teaching about sex at a developmental point which is not appropriate to do so (which you cannot avoid getting into the "how" also at some point because, as a Iicensed K-6 teacher myself, that's where kids go when you introduce it...your probable intentional conflation of secual identity with sexual education, and your unbidden introduction carries an implied endorsement, which is also how young kids minds work...
Hope you don't have a hidden agenda to "sell" sexual identity to children that is predetermined by you to be favorable, since isn't the idea that sexual identity and orientation is supposed to be hardwired in the first place? Otherwise it would be difficult to decry "deprogramming" efforts on both sides of the sexual orientation fence, wouldn't it?
It might be prudent to get a little education about child development. So that you avoid looking like you are trying to engage in programming (because then you would have to also consider the value of de-programming, and that would be embarassing if you believe that sexual orientation is supposed to be hard-wired, wasn't that the big objection in the past about kids who felt they were different than their born gender being forced by society to fit into a hetero identity when they knew they were not?) You seem to have a premise that kids CAN be convinced to be one or the other based on a sales pitch. You can't very well have both, kids gender identity has to either be hard wired or malleable...if you can sell kids one way then you can also sell them the other way. Coercing kids into developmentally premature identities? That's a little narcissistic, don't you think? Sounds more like a pitch for a political outlook, not education.
Your sarcasm about being thorough, which you would like people to mistake for being reasoned when actually you're being verbose and pedantic, is noted. Thanks for the life advice.
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Minister Wilson
Hey Rev Mark,
The reasonableness or unreasonableness of this bill would be better determined if it specifically addressed something that was actually being taught, much like the latest right-wing push to ban CRT, which is a topic that is not being taught.
And as a licensed K-6 educator, you should know that...
Yet, you ignore this recent political pandering and now claim that further legislation is necessary to prohibit :
“Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 [or] in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students...”
Please note: that sexual orientation or gender identity are not matters that involve sexual intercourse.
Additionationally, what does the state consider “age-appropriate” or “developmentally appropriate.”?
This non-specificity is vague and could extend well beyond the third grade...thus making it void, especially, in light, of no corresponding curriculum or planned methodology for teaching children about sex and gender.
I have asked anyone to produce this type of “sexual instruction” material being taught to children, and none has been produced, thus far...
And therein lies the problem you believe something to be “reasonable” without any of the corresponding evidence that would constitute its reasonableness.
Gender Identity and sexual orientation are developed all throughout a person’s life.
“Homosexuality is not a result of having a smothering mother, an absent father, or emotional problems. It is not caused by seduction by an older adult (Rind, Tromovich, & Bauserman, 1998). It is not caused by parental practices or role models” (Wade & Tavris, 2011).
“Most gay men recall that they rejected the typical boy role and boys’ toys and games from an early age, in spite of enormous pressures from their parents and peers to conform to the traditional male role (Bailey & Zucker, 1995).
As a teacher, you should know this...
A person’s nature and nurture are inextricably linked because you cannot separate the individual from the environment in which those genes are expressed. That’s how some children feel like they don’t fit in...
And as a teacher working around children, you should know this too...
Your ramblings about hidden agendas, selling sexual identities, and indoctrination are misguided and ignorant...And you would probably turn a child in need looking for answers away because of a callous disregard for "homosexual questions".
So, the state of Florida has decided to through religious zealots cover, so they don’t have to answer any of those tuff questions...
So, yeah, your full-throated endorsement and lack of essential childhood development knowledge allow me to presume that you see no problems with right-wing religious zealotry, you appear to operate from a basis of fear, and you probably believe the Jan 6 attack on the capital was simply a tour, and you, most likely, base your “morality” on a 2,000year-old book, which couldn’t hold a candle to a Diagnostic and Statistical Manual used today.
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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James
The bill is actually about about not teaching sex to K-3. If you are against that and actually want little kids to learn about sex, then that makes you look bad.
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Tom
That's actually not what the bill is about. Just addressing the section you are referring to, "3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards" is specific to preventing instruction to K-3 that would acknowledge same-sex marriages or anyone is transgender, neither of which is about teaching sex and that's just the first part of it.
The second part comes after "or" and it is incredibly vague. It would prevent "classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." There are no state standards for such instruction and it leaves a lot up to interpretation as to what is a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students of any age.
This bill will essentially allow anyone who feels homosexuality or transgenderism is inappropriate for their children, regardless of age or grade, to sue the school which will keep teachers afraid of discussing or addressing these topics at all.
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Minister Wilson
Tom,
Well grounded and thoughtful reply...
Good work,
Minister Wilson
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Katelynne Shouse
DeSantis, and every other, Christo-Fascist Theocrat such as he should be stripped of power, tried for crimes against American citizens, and at the very least be barred from holding public office of any type (no matter how lowly) from that day forward!
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Timothy Newell
We need some serious school board and PTA meetings about this issue, rather than let any state legislature decide either way. Everyone should have an equal voice and equal time presenting their views, then a serious vote from the parents. Whatever the parents vote on goes. If it's a close vote, then do a recount. If no resolution, then take it up with the state Supreme Court then onto the U. S. Supreme court.
There are certain topics on which you will never receive consensus and this is one of them. Pastors have to be very careful in dealing with this, and thousands of other controversial topics. In this case, both sides of this argument believe that children may be harmed by teaching or not teaching sex education at a young age in public schools. Personally I am very wary of educators pushing their own agenda when sensitive topics are taught in schools, or at church for that matter. I can only come up with the conclusion that sex education belongs at home, even though many parents do a poor job at that. I would not want to leave such education in the hands of school, or church, or for that matter the government. The first year I offered to teach Sunday School I was given a curriculum addressing sex education. I was petrified. As a parent, I would have objected to having a stranger teach my children. As it was, a letter was sent to all parents, with a copy of the curriculum, and offering parents to have their child opt out of the class. My point is that the responsibility still rested with the parent(s). So how about this issue? Would you insist on what is being taught based on your personal convictions, or should a parent have the final word?
Mr Arends,
Your assuming that all parent teaching skills and personal convictions are good and better for society....
I do understand your point, but I think a case can be made for parents that teach hate, rascism, or sexism as determental for the child, other peers, and society...
So, should parents have the final say? It depends
Rascism or sexism have not disappeared from society...so should parents also be held to account for this?
Take care,
Minister Wilson