A Sacramento-area school board president wants more Christians on school advisory boards, and critics aren't happy about it.
Late last month, Rocklin, California school board President Julie Leavens Hupp made a Facebook post calling for “Christ centered” parents to join school advisory boards.
Almost immediately, the post lit off an incendiary social media response, as some local parents criticized her language as a violation of the separation of church and state.
Despite calls for an apology and a retraction, she’s refusing to back down.
Christians Wanted
“The advisory committee sign ups went out today,” reads the Facebook post. “We need as many Christ centered, family focused parents as we can get on those committees. PLEASE take a look and see what you can commit to for the year.”
Many local parents had strong reactions to Hupp’s assertion that the school needed, specifically, Christian parents to get involved.
"I'm somebody that believes firmly in the separation of church and state, and so I found that completely inappropriate to appeal to one specific religious demographic," explained local parent Bryce Johnson. “Right now, I’m frustrated.”
Hupp’s response? Get over it.
“Yes, I asked for Christ loving individuals to join committees,” she wrote in a subsequent Facebook post in response to the deluge of criticism she received.
“I also asked for family centered individuals and principle centered, loving people. All faiths and all child loving people are encouraged to sign up. If you live in Rocklin and want what is best for children and have the time to commit, come join.”
Are All Faiths Really Welcome?
Despite her assertion that all faiths are welcome, some still think she crossed a religious line.
“You are advocating for a violation of the first amendment separation of Church and State,” said one man in response to the Facebook post.
“Here's a question though. Do you support and encourage LGBTQ+ parents and families on campuses in volunteer and teaching capacities? Do you call for them publicly?” another pondered.
One man asked Hupp’s supporters how they would feel if she asked for Muslim parents to join advisory boards instead of Christians. If it were a different faith, would they still support her statement?
Jesus and School, Together Again
This may seem like petty local politics, and to some extent it is. But experts point out it's also representative of a larger movement nationwide to recruit Christians to school boards that critics argue is designed to covertly sneak Jesus back into school halls.
Last month, secular watchdog Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) successfully blocked several school districts from including prayers or religious invocations in school functions. From an Ohio school district ending student-led prayers at graduation ceremonies to a Texas school district invoking prayers at mandatory staff meetings, the FFRF is fighting tooth and nail to keep faith out of schools.
They even called out an Arizona school board for their meetings, wherein one board member quotes the Bible, including one passage, Matthew 18:6, which they say threatens the unfaithful.
But whoever causes one of these little ones — who believe in me — to stumble and sin by leading him away from my teaching, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
With the school year now starting back up, this trend could very well continue.
What do you think? Should school boards be able to freely express their faith preferences? When it comes to religion in schools, where is the line between expression and endorsement?
134 comments
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Sydney Elizabeth Tracie Boyd
Yes, the Constitution does require a separation between church and state but it does NOT guarantee a public education. It can influence equal access to education that is available. Each state has the say over what kind of public education is provided but it is not guaranteed. If we remember this in our conversation we really can't say that saying the pledge of allegence or christian focused education is against the constitution. We do have to make sure though that other religions are appropriately respresented and not discriminated against if they opt out or politely dont participate.
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
Lady Bernice Miller you are so on point with all statements.. history is repeating itself as we speak. Witch hunts calling of names lack of understanding etc. These are the things we should not be changing to hurt each other because.. it causes more pain then it does good. I wonder.. did the children in these schools have a say as to who they trust to speak to.. but I do get that privacy of ministry cannot be broken and in the same regard we cannot force one way on a diversity. Christians do not preach equality in their churches.. they teach segregation
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Lady Bernice Miller
In my own educational opinion many so called christians are true Bigots. I feel bad for these students being forced to be something that they are not. Their rights are being taken away from them and the parents that are not religious. My advice to those parents that are not religious should remove their child/children from these schools and homeschool them. Both the Parents and their child/children deserve to have rights as the so called christians do. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Want to stir up unnecessary controversy well it’s time for others to stand up for what the United States of America is suppose to stand for “FREEDOM”. Come on people this is 2023 NOT 1900’s, 1800’s or anything else. Stand up for what our ancestors fought for and do what they would be proud of you, if they were here today.
To each their own and just leave others alone stop trying to force your unnecessary decisions onto others. Stop dictating or making up words that are in your “bible” the world is suppose to evolve NOT be stuck in the Stone Ages. Those that are thinking they are religious people probably are just like that thinking they look good in the publics eyes but you’re NOT you’re really looking like the foolish ones who need to just STOP!!!
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
As far as this discussion goes... as a member of ULC... and being that it was founded on equality and first amendment rights.. this absolutely goes against separation of church and state. Unless they are welling to bring someone/or/persons that represent the faiths of the individual student's needs.. then the church should not be involved unless the school is faith based in that way of life. Otherwise you are in essence forcing one way of life on all.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Exactly.
These Christians WANT to force their religion on others. In their opinion it's the moral - it's the GODLY thing to do - and they don't care what anybody else says.
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Lady Bernice Miller
I feel that if religion is forced fed to those in school they resent everything and everyone for doing that. Nobody seems to care about the students all those that want this change. This topic ridiculous how would those adults feel if I shoved my beliefs down their throats. They would resent me doing that. All of those that want this change should be forced to do something they don’t like. This topic truly upsets me because I don’t think anyone has the right to force anything down anyone’s throats.
Instead why don’t they come together and on a certain day of the week students have a choice. People are not considering the other sides opinion.
I was forced and I know what it feels like and I resented everyone that forced me to do what they wanted and never allowed me to make my decision. No I was forced to do what they wanted.
Yes I’m ordained but not for the reasons most are thinking or wanting to learn about. Close minded people will be the death of these students and they will most likely be more suicides because of being forced but nobody is considering any of these things.
FREEDOM OF CHOICE TO SPEAK AND BEGIN TO MAKING THEIR OWN DECISIONS!!!
Lady Bernice Miller
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George Anthony Padgett
It's about time that God was reintroduced to the school system.
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Brien
What god do you refer to? Since this is a fictional being, what comic book are you referring to? You wish to introduce fear and discrimination into schools, so which students do we ban? Who do we keep? Who makes that decision? What will you do when entire groups of parents file class action law suits against the school districts? Are you going to pay for the fines that will be leveled? There are religious schools. Feel free to use them.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
If a school was ramming religion down my students' throats and allowing ministers to be in instead of councilors, and allowing religious < cencords > preach to MY kids, I would change schools.
Their religion is not everyone's religion, and it's getting sickening as that people seem to think that there is only ONE religion in this world and all others are false, and what's worse, trying force religion into our laws and educational system.
If they want a religion education, then send their kids to a religious school. Don't send their religion into the public school systems.
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Patti Anne Lisenbee
Let one religion in, you have to let them all in or it's religious fascism.
Students and staff can pray and read the bible in schools, as long as it's PRIVATELY DONE. No attempts to convert.
One person cannot make the descision for everyone in that school.
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Maria Elisa Koch
If it's a private religious school, yes, if it's a public school, no. There is more than one religion, why just Christianity?
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Keith
I think that we all should be able to follow any religion we choose to believe in. However, when it comes to having more Christ-centered parents on the committees of school boards should not be allowed. You are opening up a can of worms. Non-Christian faith people will feel decisions made will be Christian-based. If you want religion-centered committees on school boards, then all religions should be represented, therefore allowing a broader perspective on decisions made. That said, I think that committees on school boards should remain neutral.
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Keith David Harry
Wanted - Dedicated Parents who genuinely care about our childrens education. Dedicated Parents willing to express undeniable love to our children. Dedicated Parents willing to set aside their own personal agendas and put our children’s education before all else. Wow…what a concept.
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Carl Anthony Glenn
Some people aren't happy unless they are arguing. My question is, "Why are there so many different religions, when there is only one God?"
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Timothy Paul. Forrester
I believe and support Religion also be taught in all school's: kids have the right to know what other beliefs of religion there are out there; I also believe if a belief is different then he/she, then they have the right not to attend that class. The surprise court or any government has the right to be able to tell our kid's what they can do or what they can't do: so in other words the government is controlling the kids not the Parents. One day Jesus Christ when he comes back (all) things will change and then what is the Government people gonna do or say.
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Timothy Paul. Forrester
I believe and support Religion also be taught in all school's: kids have the right to know what other beliefs of religion there are out there; I also believe if a belief is different then he/she, then they have the right not to attend that class. The surprise court or any government has the right to be able to tell our kid's what they can do or what they can't do: so in other words the government is controlling the kids not the Parents. One day Jesus Christ when he comes back (all) things will change and then what is the Government people gonna do or say.
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Diane Avis
Specifically singly out a group is continuing the separatist and bias of a not being equal. All parents/persons should be encouraged to participate in the school efforts of their children's school and be involved regardless of their religious or political beliefs.
The schools should return their focus back to educating the children so they can read, write, and do math when they get older. They should now the history and geography of the country. Too many educators are getting away from that and using their platform to promote their own agenda and narrative. It's wrong.
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Keith A Weaver
Better true Christian then all the fake religions.
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Rosalie Stafford
The comment “You are advocating for a violation of the first amendment separation of Church and State” (said one man in response to the Facebook post), and the numerous comments supporting this idea just goes to show that these people do not understand the Bill of Rights nor the Constitution.
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Michael Hunt
Are you saying that decades of jurisprudence is wrong? The first amendment's establishment clause creates a clear separation between the state and churches.
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Deborah Lynn Strafuss
So if she was really asking for "“I also asked for family centered individuals and principle centered, loving people. All faiths and all child loving people are encouraged to sign up. If you live in Rocklin and want what is best for children and have the time to commit, come join.” why didn't she say that?
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Rev. Rory
Obviously this school board is focused on politics, not education. This is a very hot topic among those that engage in culture wars. No surprise that "Christ" centered parents be invited to apply to be involved in the education activities.
ROCKLIN, Calif. — The Rocklin Unified School District School Board is set to vote on a policy requiring parents to be notified if their child wants to identify as transgender or gender-nonconforming.
According to the agenda for (today) Wednesday evening's Board of Education meeting, the board members will vote on adding a new right for parents and guardians.
If passed, parents and guardians are to be notified within three school days when their child requests the following:
To be identified as a gender other than the child’s biological sex or gender To use a name that differs from their legal name (other than a commonly recognized nickname) To use pronouns that do not align with the child’s biological sex or gender Access to sex-segregated school programs and activities, or bathrooms or changing facilities that do not align with the child’s biological sex or gender The policy says notification needs to be made by the classroom teacher, counselor, or site administrator.
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Christopher Johnson
There's a ton of very real very legal things that do in fact exist in this country that are not enshrined in the Constitution. The fact that:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Is in the Bill of Rights, makes it legitimate and no law respecting an establishment of religion is intended to ensure no one religion is established above another. The founding fathers were Deist not strictly Christian, so there is no reason they would have elevated that one religion above any other. And Thomas Jefferson in his letter to the Danbury Baptist association confirms it:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
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Merlin
Remember the Inquisition!!! "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Publicly funded schools must remain separated from any religious affiliation. The temptation is too great to assert control. Example is the abortion issue.
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Steven Ferrell
If anyplace needs Christ centered people on advisory boards it is the public school system. There are far too many total socialist working to indoctrinate children away from God and towards all manner of evil.
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Jonathan David Kaczur
If you want to teach Christianity in schools, then you need to teach all faiths. I have pulled my children from public schools and places them in different ones because of such initiatives. I have nothing against the Christian faith until it is unwillingly forced upon people. My beliefs, and the beliefs of my children, are just as important as the next person’s. My gods are as important as their god. Live in harmony with each other.
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Timothy Newell
She wasn't talking about religion, she was talking about people. So everyone needs to really listen to what she's asking for. She didn't ask to reinstate prayer in schools, she didn't ask to pledge an allegiance to one nation under God. She asked for Jesus-loving people, so get off this easy train to jump on about separation of church and state. The First Amendment not only allows citizens the freedom to practice any religion of their choice, but also prevents the government from officially recognizing or favoring any religion. She isn't calling for a new law to be made.
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Brien
I am sorry, but I did understand what she said. What you do not seem to understand is that she cannot occupy the position she does while making discriminatory remarks as she has done. A really good way to understand this would be to read up on the Fair Housing Act rules. They go over in good detail as to what can be considered discrimination and discussion of religion in this context can be interpreted as discrimination . The belief in "Jesus" or any mythical god being IS a religious belief. There are PLENTY of parents that do NOT wish thier children to be taught beliefs that are not inline with thier own. Many have no religious ties at all. Do you understand how the public could be upset by her comments? Public schools must be free from religion. Parents have the job to teach beliefs. Parents can chose to send thier children to religious schools. I hope this clarifies the position for you.
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ServantOfJudgement
That's a surprise coming out of California. The state has fallen into judgement, looks like it anyway. It's good that some people out there are heeding God's many warnings but it may not be enough to change their course. The politicians are guaranteeing more of the same. Seems like they like crap on the streets and rampant crime, I can't figure out why the think they're doing good. If you turn to the Bible to find out why it's because they've been blinded with delusion. I just can't believe they can't see it but they can't.
The woman asked for Christ centered and family focused parents, they nearly equate to the same thing. A family focused parent need not be a Christian but a biblical Christian is a family focused parent. She didn't make Christianity the qualifying attribute, being family focused was the qualifying attribute. Let's hope she gets what California needs, more christians and more family focused parents. Then lets watch the beautiful state of California begin to heal.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Rocklin is a very affluent area. These are no doubt part of the privileged prosperity gospel crowd who think they have a right to run humanity. You know - the rich Christians.
And you really need to stop getting your view of California through Fox News. It's not the real world.
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ServantOfJudgement
Dunno Kenneth, you see it plastered all over the place. California goes easy on crime, no cops if theft under $900 or something. People leaving by the millions, too expensive or economic hardship. Tons of homeless encampments and their problems. Stores closing up because of theft. Like the West Coast is going down that road. I know news is sensational so there's that but there's truth there too.
Money folk, as onerous as they are, still deserve a reasonable expectation of justice and decency. That starts with the kids. Doesn't have to be a Christian takeover, just people that have a healthy focus on children in the classroom.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yes, you do see it plastered all over the place. And if you live there, you see it differently.
Reality is a story we tell ourselves. There's an entire class of people who are very well paid who understand this, so endeavor to plaster everywhere what they want people to think.
And it works.
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Mark A. Bartholomew Sr.
"One Nation, Under God". I seem to recall that quote from somewhere in our history. Maybe we, as a people would do well by remembering and embracing the foundations laid by our forefathers.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
"One nation, under God" wasn't added to the pledge until 1954.
https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm?vm=r
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Mark A. Bartholomew Sr.
"One Nation, Under God". I seem to recall that quote from somewhere in our history. Maybe we, as a people would do well by remembering and embracing the foundations laid by our forefathers.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
She’s a witch. Let’s tie a stone to her legs, through her in a lake and see if God saves her or if she’s a witch?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Oh it does not.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
the xtian taliban strikes again.
next up, xtian theocracy
then, abolition of all religions other than x tianity
afterwards, a national civil war between xtian factions fighting it out for absolute control
followed by women at home, rearing children
races put back in their place
the u.s., as a now official xtian nation will wage war across the world, first against the muslims, then hindus, then the jews
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The world needs more religiously delusional parents like a fish needs a bicycle.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Separation of church and state anyone?
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Daniel Gray
does not exist anyone?
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Christopher Johnson
There's a ton of very real very legal things that do in fact exist in this country that are not enshrined in the Constitution. The fact that:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Is in the Bill of Rights, makes it legitimate and no law respecting an establishment of religion is intended to ensure no one religion is established above another. The founding fathers were Deist not strictly Christian, so there is no reason they would have elevated that one religion above any other. And Thomas Jefferson in his letter to the Danbury Baptist association confirms it:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
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Amber Fry
False. It might not be stated in those exact words but the meaning is there if you just read it.
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Michael Holland
Church and state, no way! Unless of course the churches wants to pay taxes and actually learn to teach and not just the Bible and its fantastic tails!
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Michael Holland
Church and state, no way! Unless of course the churches wants to pay taxes and actually learn to teach and not just the Bible and its fantastic tails!
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Kym Hartmann
Well I guess we can look at it the way it is now all over the world, Christ has been taken out of schools and everything else, and what is happening? Chaos all over! Let's try it how it was years ago, put Christ back where He is supposed to be and see what happens, no harm in trying this if we can all agree for a moment in time.Anyway just my thoughts. Minister Kym in Australia 🦘.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
As Lord Summerisle in The Wicker Man (original version) said "[God] had his chance and, in modern parlance, blew it." Christianity needs to be kept out of schools.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
I think there is more to it than an attempt to mix religion and politics.
I have been working in schools for many years (as a consultant, thankfully, so I maintain both an insider and outsider perspective on these things when they happen.
This is what I call a resume builder. She wants to make a name for herself. She's a noise maker.
The gig is : she tosses her true or maybe not true self, and a media grabber agenda out there, people react, some over-react, the media picks it up and she rides the waves of controversy until she catches enough attention to land a big fish (employer) with more money, power, recognition, whatever.
Because she scores a few points, she loses a few points: she adds it to her resume along with her "learnings" from her successes and mistakes (always important in job interviews) and she leaves a mess and everyone high and dry.
If they kick her out it is more news for her (she is a martyr for a fan base and certain employers. If they don't kick her out it's simply more conflict and more media attention until she makes a hefty move on her own.
That sounds snarky, I know.
But I have seen many school superintendents and etc moving on up over the years... and they have all left a mess in their wake that does absolutely nothing for children and their families who want good educations for their kids.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
They move up as you say, but it is only within like-minded circles. Net result: Nothing changes.
It's a shared universe for a reason. Any productive goal will result in a wider circle.
Just as you say, she may get a bigger paycheck - but does that do anybody any good besides her?
This is the utility of diversity.
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Tareq Asfour
I support this decision very strongly at least, we are are going to see positive changes into the right direction. The parents of the monotheistic faiths will be pleased with this decision and I hope they bring back saying the pledge of Allegiance before starting the class to give thanks to our country
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
So you want to trample over the rights of polytheistic and atheistic parents. How very Christian of you.
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Minister Butterworth
Mike E.,
"How very Christian of you". This coming from you? That would be laughable were it not so sad.
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John Robert Milner
The idea of making a board more Christian centered means simply understanding and recognizing the values of that faith which repeatedly says seek the good in humanity! Follow the “Golden Rule”! It means to accept others but keep decency in their decisions! Quit getting wrapped up about religion and think more about treating others fairly and faithfully! We are failing ourselves and our children! Find common courtesy and meet together with constructive meaningful solutions! In other words, get a grip’
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Christianity has had 2000 years to straighten out humanity.
You tell me - how's that going?
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Robert James Ruhnke
No thanks. Those of us non Christians who don’t convert usually get murdered for it. That’s your Christian idea of corrupted love. Y’all are the ones wrapped up on your religion. Thinking to call it spiritual to somehow soften the concept doesnt help you. “Keep decency in your decision,” is code for anti women’s rights and choice, anti lgbtq+, anti many things. You just vale your hideousness behind words like decency. It’s almost like I’m drawing from 2000 years of bloody Christian history. A thousand years of Muslim history. And history from 5000 years ago when Hebrews were invading Canaan.
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Brien
Again, the reference to a belief that I nor my children are a part of. My children are taught by thier parents how to be a good person. That is MY job not the school. My children are taught to obey our laws and stand up for their rights. I do not wish you, nor anyone else to press upon MY children beliefs that are not their own. The term for that is brainwashing. Please keep it to yourself. You may teach your children as you see fit. Kindly afford me the same right.
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Clay Serenbetz
In my experience, Christians do not live the values that they espouse. Trump held up the Bible (upside down). He clearly has no concept of purported Christian values. Does anyone?
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Brien
Whoever this person is should be immediately FIRED from the position for discrimination. It is a clear violation. There is no controversy here. The violation is clear and admitted to. Now I am certain that the zealots will cry foul, but as usual they would be wrong.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
She should be immediately dismissed from her post a replaced by someone ready to uphold the 1st amendment. Religion has no place in schools.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but that would violate her 1st amendment rights
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Amber Fry
No, it really wouldn't. Public schools are government agencies and none of them are to be bias towards or against any religions. She was very bias to her own and prejudice against others. That makes it a very direct violation of that amendment.
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Brien
Nope, she has committed a violation of discrimination. She has vaulted publicly IN HER JOB one religion over another, thereby forcing beliefs on children. Parents have called for her dismissal. YOU MAY NOT discriminate while holding a PUBLIC office. Before you stamp your feet, anything involving PUBLIC tax dollars is OWNED by the TAXPAYERS, not religion, and no discrimination is allowed. That is PUBLIC, all the PUBLIC. Now, is this a public or private institution?
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Daniel Gray
How exactly Brian? It hasnt happened so she was not forcing her views on anyone as you claim. And no not everything involving public tax dollars is owned by the tax payers as per the Maine decision where the SCOTUS ORDERED maine to allow a religious school to access public tax money for making the playground safer for the children https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-1088_dbfi.pdf and this was a PRIVATE and still is a PRIVATE school.
Another place where you are wrong is the state has a set amount of money per student. And it makes absolutely no difference where the student attends school, that funding for the student follows the student to whatever school they attend be it private/public/or charter. This has been ruled as such by at least 7 out of the 12 US district courts that are one step below the SCOTUS.
And yes while some parents have called for her to be removed (and thats the ONLY truthful thing in your statement) the vast majority of them are happy with her and have demanded that she stay.
You really need to stop imprinting your error filled beliefs into your posts without bring able to back them up
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Robert Gagnon
People of faith would have been more appropriate. As compared to the non-faithful or faith fluid.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
She doesn't want people of faith, she explicitly want only Christians to have any influence in schools.
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Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
Well hot topic for sure. I believe in the value of religion & all religions are welcome, in schools. Bring back prayer & the pledge of allegiance. It starts with a few moments of silence every morning to take time to pray or teach how to pray in religion in school. It might help the class identify with multifaith religions & learn more about it thru each other.. Its soulful & with great gratitude that request was made for christian oriented families. It could be thought for example that someone could have said "I am muslim & of religious values & morales can I join your group? " verse take offense.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
What about Atheists? Are they also to be taught how to pray and, if so, which god are they to pray to? Religion has no place in schools.
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Brien
who's prayer do you bring back? What about other beliefs? How many other religious beliefs are there and how will you integrate all of thier prayers? Suppose as a parent I do not approve of my child having beliefs placed upon them that are not inline with the beliefs that I have taught to my children? Are you now deciding what is best for my children?
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MIKE
What happened to comparative religion courses? We had them when I was in school. I even participated in class presentations as an adult.
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Amber Fry
Back when I was in school they didn't allow them with concern that a teacher could fall into a trap of being bias against religions not their own... which would be detrimental in such classes and violate the amendment.
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Colleen McAllister
This does overstep the line. Endorsing any religion is against our Constitution. By specifically asking for Christ centered parents does just that. Any of those Board members has the right to say what they believe but only if they stress it is a personal belief that is not endorsed by the Board.
What should have been stressed is that they want caring, loving, child-centered parents.
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Jake Reynolds
Great answer, especially your final sentence.
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Daniel Gray
No line to be stepped over. There are all kinds of people on school boards that have religious backgrounds. so dont start that myth about separation of church and state that does not appear anywhere in the Constitution
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George Hook
Read the Constitution! Better yet, read the Federalist Papers to find out what the Founders thought. Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, et all, make it quite clear they intended that a “wall of separation” shall exist between church and state. It is no “myth.” Your ignorance is appaling.
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Daniel Gray
makes non difference what they thought, you can only go by what is actually LISTED in the Constitution
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Ronaldo
Jefferson's statement was to the Danbury Baptist Association in response to their concern that Congress would create a state church. His "wall of separation" statement was not applied to the nation until 1947 when the Supreme Court expanded it in Brown v. Board of Education. Our Founding Fathers were of the mind that there is no separation between government and Christians, other than the prohibition of a state-sponsored religion of any kind.
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
I found out the same
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Brien
You may have your religion, you may not include it in PUBLIC schools. There are private religious schools that you can send your children to. I don't want mythical murderous beliefs of hatred being forced on children in PUBLIC schools. Why do you continuously trample on the rights of others? What gives you the right to take away the rights of parents? You are advocating for discrimination and hate. That is how you are viewed. I pity you.
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Daniel Gray
does not make a hill of beans what you want brian, the constitution says you can do it/the scotus says you can do it and they hold far more authority then you will ever have. so get used to it as its not going to change
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Mark Andrew Olson
I was taught that most of the original people who came to North America were escaping religious tyranny and persecution, looking for a land where all were created equally and could pursue theirnhapp8ness and religious beliefs of their choosing.
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Roger Lynn Davis
Partly true. In fact, the early Puritans apparently persecuted Quakers, Anabaptists and others who did not adhere to Puritan beliefs.
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Patricia Ann Gross
The line being stepped over is when they are recruited and selected BECAUSE of their religious backgrounds. That should not be a criteria either for or against a person, only if it is part of their agenda for serving on the board.
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Lionheart
What actually is a Christ centered parent? Did he really exist? 🤔
If he did, I wonder what his pronouns were? 🤭
🦁❤️
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ServantOfJudgement
I Am
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
You are. So is everybody else - including the 'alphabet people'.
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ServantOfJudgement
No, that's the Christ's pronoun. I Am. Duh.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Once again, the world is bigger than your box.
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ServantOfJudgement
Come on man, you've got to give me a break one of these days.
A strange cat called lionheart made a biblical funny, I answered his funny with biblical words and I get railed. I explained the Bible answer to the biblical funny and get railed.
I want my mommy back.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I like you SOJ. You do exhibit qualities of equanimity and thoughtfulness that I find respectable, despite our disagreements.
Speaking of disagreements, have you noticed a commonality with most of the blog posts here lately? A common conflict?
I'll tell you - it's almost always somebody who decides what God wants, and everybody else resisting. Somehow, it seems the uncontested Master of the universe forgot some detail in His Creation, so it's naturally up to his "followers" to clean up the mess and straighten out God's negligence.
"This can't be real," they say, "So let's just say it doesn't exist and then all will be right with the universe."
What an absent-minded, careless Creator these religious people devote their lives to. Can you imagine being an infinite, omnipotent, transcendent being who depends on a few pounds of neural jelly in a meat suit to straighten out what you botched? It must be SO embarrassing. I can just imagine the ribbing He gets from His fellow Gods back in the celestial lounge.
Perhaps someday there will be a God who creates diversity for a purpose, rather than as an oversight. Wouldn't that be something - a God who is too big to fit into a book? Yes - that would be revolutionary. I honestly don't know how some people could handle it.
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Lionheart
I am, also, as are the Alphabet people, as Kenneth mentioned.
Love your comment, Kenneth. 🤣
🦁❤️
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Thank you LH!
You often entertain me too. ;)
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
I love this comment, because it POs everybody.
Pro-tip - when trying to make a statement, the first step is to get it listened to. ;)
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Pamela Kay Waters
No. They can learn that at home because there are more than just one religion. What the parents NEED to do is teach RESPECT that is long gone in kids these days. The respect where kids call their neighbors by mr and mrs. Stop bullying so kids stop committing suicide. Parents need to step up and teach and take care of their kids these days. But I guess parents don't have the balls and now a days kids go crying child abuse. This world is messed up and it's to far gone for those days.
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David Richard Procter
Too many versions of Christ. Which one will prevail? Catholic-centered? Presbyterian-centered? Let's stop the silly politics in religion.
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Nicholas J Page
I cannot reply as I don't live in the US and I don't understand the amendments.However many there are.
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Echo
A deliberate attempt to mix church and state, no thanks. Maybe it's better to have equal representation of faith. One Abrahamic, one Buddhist, one atheist, and one Pagan. At least this would help with a lower amount of mixing church and state. Just an Idea.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Atheism isn’t a ‘faith’. Do you have a lack of belief in Santa? Is that a faith?
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but the SCOTUS ruled both Atheism and Humanism as a faith. Thats why the US Military was required to have a symbol for atheism placed on the tombstones of service members who requested it, and why you have atheist and Humanism "religious" leaders in the services as well as churchs for same. The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions, most recently in 2005
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-7th-circuit/1467028.html
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Brien
Daniel, you are NOT qualified to talk about service men and women. Using our armed forces personnel as a weapon to support your view point is vile and disgusting. ULC, this post needs to be said, if you delete this, then I demand you also delete Daniel's service man post.
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Daniel Gray
Brian, I AM qualified as unlike you, I RETIRED from the US Army and my unit was the 101st Airborne 22nd Combat 5th Brigade, 2nd Battalion Charlie Company 1st Platoon. Now if you want I will even give you the name of my Platoon LT and Sgt. My MOS was 89 Delta with a secondary MOS in Combatives Course (close combat and avoidance) and after putting in the 29 years Brian I am SUPREMELY confident that I know FAR more about the military then someone like you who has clearly never served a day in his life.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
The SCOTUS has also ruled that corporations are people. Do you believe that, just because the court says so?
I bet you think you are a free thinker too.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Good point. Personally, because I expatriated long ago I don’t give an airborne rodent’s anal sphincter muscle what the Supreme Court decides. However, their ruling is meant to prevent cases where, like the ruling noted in the circuit court case, people are not free to express their LACK OF BELIEF.
Again, religions are systems of active beliefs in the existence of supernatural beings and desire to bow down and serve follow said being. (In my opinion, it’s the holding of positive beliefs on issues where the best attitude is one of doubt, skepticism or lack of belief.) Atheism is that lack of belief.
A: There’s a god that created everything. B: Nope, there’s simply no evidence to support support that. It’s my opinion that you are so full of it that your eyes are brown.
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Daniel Gray
No yet again you tell a myth. The SCOTUS ruled that since a corporation pays taxes and contributes to society, they also have the same right of free speech as anyone else. Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission had a ruling that under the 14th Amendment they had the same rights as any other person. You have Unions who make contributions and they were the ones who filed the complaint that Businesses should not be able to do what they themselves were doing. The SCOTUS disagreed. If the SCOTUS had agreed then absolutely NO union could have made any form of a donation to any candidate which would have killed the Democrat party as thats where they get almost all of their political donations.
And considering the concept of corporate personhood long predates Citizens United. Because corporations have a separate identity from their organizers and investors, they can own property, enter into contracts, sue and be sued, pay taxes, and exist in perpetuity. The exact same thing that you can do now and with a trust fund. The very FIRST time the SCOTUS ruled on corporate personhood was in 1931 when they protected a non media businesses rights to free speech, and then again in 1936 and again in 1941 (and remember that all of these courts were Democrat heavy as they had the majority) Now if the courts had ruled "no" on citizens united, then they could also have used that rule against the NY times/GM/Walmart/Washington post and even the Monastery itself thus stopping you-me and everyone else from posting here
You can read the whole decision results both pro and con here
https://reason.com/video/2019/09/05/corporations-and-the-first-amendment-free-speech-rules-episode-6/
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Howard Rees
It must be wonderful to be so "right" on everything.
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Daniel Gray
nope its just fun to destroy myths like what you are claiming.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So you do agree with it.
Explains a lot.
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Daniel Gray
No I agree with what the Constitution says and what the Supreme Court has said. If you dont like it then get them to change it but take heed, they have only overturned themselves 12 times since the late 1700's and Congress can overturn their decision but it take a super majority of BOTH Houses to do so. So if you dont like what they said then you really need to get busy on getting either them or the Congress to overturn it
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George Hook
Just because you can quote/refer to the SCOTUS doesn’t make it right. There’s a difference between making donations (unions) and, say, voting? A corporation has rights, they can do what most of us do (own property, pay taxes, etc.), but a corporation is not should they be allowed to vote? Should they be allowed to influence or require their employees to vote the way the corporation decides? The Citizens United case may be the law for now, but since the current SCOTUS seems inclined to take away citizens rights who knows what a future court might do. By the way, your politics is showing which is why we have the First Amendment.
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Daniel Gray
you dont like what the SCOTUS says then get your congressman to change it. Until then you will follow their decisions no matter if you like it or not
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Ronaldo
The Court ruled that Corporations have many of the same legal rights and responsibilities as people, but did not rule that they were people. The same Court ruled that fetuses in the womb are not people under the law, so are not accorded any rights. Many biologists and scientists feel otherwise, but the legal definitions of anything, regardless of other beliefs, guide our government's leaders and legislation.
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Rev. Rory
Humanism is a belief system.
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
...one Satanist, one Pastafarian, one Jedi Knight..etc. etc. Where would you stop?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Just more evidence that the religious - specifically Christians in this case - are always working to shoehorn the world into their prejudiced views of it.
Are they really espousing the values of inclusivity? Openness? Acceptance? Fairness? Or just proselytizing?
When they demand prayer in school, it will be to their God. When they want to ban books, they will be the judges of which ones, according to their religious principles. When they demand gender conformance, it will be to their prejudiced and bigoted ideals. When they support political issues, it will always be to promote those politicians who support their issues.
This is why the separation of church and state MUST be upheld.
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Daniel Gray
sorry but there is no separation of church and state located anywhere in the constitution. Try again
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
So what's the official religion?
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Daniel Gray
There isnt one kenny and you darn well know that
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Yes I do. And I know the reason for that - unlike you.
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Daniel Gray
seemingly you dont or you would stop with this myth of separation of church and state that is listed NOWHERE in the constitution
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Please point to where it says you can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater when there's no fire.
Then try it.
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Daniel Gray
Ok then point where you can show this mythical fantasy of yours is in the constitution. Should be right next to it in the tinfoil hat version of the Constitution
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Brien
You have been told where to look. Your toxic view of forced religion is transparent. Your writing drips with discrimination and hate. You use wonderful documents such as the constitution to weaponize your beliefs where no such support exist. You do have free speech, but fortunately the law doesn't give you freedom of action.
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Amber Fry
Actually there is. The amendment states the government cannot favor any one religion over another and that neither should interfere in the other's business. Though it doesn't specifically say "separation of church and state", that is the exact meaning of those statements. Leave them separate.
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Daniel Gray
In your opinion maybe, but not factually or legally
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Richard Eldon Kirk
FOR THOSE THINKING THE SEPARATION OF CURCH AND STATE IS NOT IN THE US CONSTITUTION: In the Constitution, the separation of church and state is codified in the Establishment Clause in the first Amendment. Basically, it says that the government (a school board for example) is prohibited from establishing a religion. It also contains the Free Exercise Clause which protects citizens right to practice religion as they please. The SCOTUS established a three tiered test to determine if a government institution has violated the Establishment Clause. See Lemon vs. Kurtzman, 403, U.S. 602 (1971).
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but no, even SCOTUS has ruled that you are wrong in the Newdow cases.
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Rev. Rory
The phrase "separation of church and state" does not actually appear anywhere in the Constitution of the United States¹. However, the concept of separating church from state is integral to the framers' understanding of religious freedom. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...". This is often referred to as the Establishment Clause, which is interpreted as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The principle of separation of church and state is used as a legal and judicial principle, even though the exact phrase does not appear in the Constitution.
The key phrase is "the concept of separating church from state is integral to the framers' understanding of religious freedom."
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Daniel Gray
dont care what they say, if its not clearly listed then its not there. end of story
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George Hook
Also read Article Six regarding “no religious test.”
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Martin L Stigleman
You are correct that the Constitution does not specify the Separation of Church and State...however, the First Amendment states that, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...". The wording says that, no religion can be named as a National Religion...however, in 1802, in a letter addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association, Jefferson, also wrote; "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.". Now, you can still argue that "It doesn't say that in there, so we don't have to follow it"...but the Constitutional Congress at the time discussed and debated every single entry in the Constitution, and the wording was agreed on according to the language of the time...and since there are many examples of writings of that time that DO clearly state those who signed the Constitution clearly held this belief, then there is essentially no argument that can be made against it, aside from "Nuh uh!!".
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Daniel Gray
They can hold the beliefs if they want, unless you can specifically show where it is in the Constitution then it isnt there no matter how you try and spin it.
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Minister Butterworth
Daniel,
I agree. If it's not there, it's not there. It doesn't matter how much you want it to be or how much you wish it was, it's just not. There are many, many....many things written that I would love to read a little differently. I guess everyone has something that would like to read in a different light but no one can. Some people just don't know that.
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Daniel Gray
My apologies but the courts can only go by what is actually written not what people wish was written or think was written. I have had a lot of people claim that the SCOTUS can "interpret" the law, yet for the life of me I cannot fin anywhere in Article 3 (powers of the Judiciary) where it says they can interpret anything. If that were so then why are they upset when the Court "interpreted" the Roe decision in a different way then what the pro choice people thought it should be. You cant claim that the courts can interpret the constitution when it benefits you and then throw a fit when they interpret it a different way. but some people just cant get that into their heads. Now I am not talking about you but a few other posters in these threads who seem to want to violate peoples rights all because it does not agree with their world view.
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Canadian Yankee
Where are they going to find these Christ centered parents, I haven't seen any lately.
Public institutions such as schools should be totally separated from religion, period! In addition, all religious institutions should be taxed like everyone else. Let the " faithfull" dig into their own pockets if they want to keep their church, mosque or synagogue alive!