With most churches worldwide heeding calls to shutter and encourage social distancing, one Baptist bishop in Georgia is wondering what the big idea is.
“No matter how bad things get in shutting down a City in a Crisis. At least 2 entities hv 2 remain open. Hospitals & Police Departments." tweeted Paul S. Morton of The Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship International. "But God’s Church must be on that list. Don’t cancel God out. We can’t do it without Him.”
As if that wasn't bad enough, Morton posted photos with his hands on congregants - "God’s first spiritual responders" - adding that until the law forced him to close, healthy Christians filling up at grocery stores or gas stations should find time for God as well.
These actions - touching, congregating, even for God - go against the CDC’s recommendations to stay in your home and avoid gatherings of 10 or more people.
"Please Stay Home"
A fellow South Carolina minister at Joshua Baptist Church respectfully disagreed that church doors should stay open during a worldwide pandemic.
"Cancelling service is a precautionary step that shows that you as the shepherd of your flock care about the safety and health of your congregants," explained Rev. Chris Thurman. "God didn’t give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a SOUND MIND."
Morton responded by insisting it's the CDC that should get their guidelines straight and determine what is a safe gathering. "And if they go down to one. I will be the one at The Church building where God says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.”
Anesthesiologist Karen Priester slammed Morton's logic. “I pray your congregation has more common sense than you do. It's not about you & your ego. Is your God only in that building? Please stay home. Spend some time in communion with God without the middleman. Thankfully, I can pray to, meditate on, and worship my God anywhere."
But this goes beyond one renegade pastor.
Defying the Experts
Watching with satisfaction as his Tampa congregants hugged and shook hands during a packed service, Pastor Rodney Howard-Brown scoffed at so-called medical experts. “If you cannot be safe in church, you’re in serious trouble,” he said during a sermon. “The only time the church is closed is when the Rapture is taking place. This bible school is open because we’re raising up revivalists, not pansies.”
And Liberty University Jerry Falwell Jr. called one of his own clients a "dummy " after the father-of-three questioned the wisdom of refusing to even entertain the possibility of cancelling classes, insisting it was "crazy, irresponsible and....a money grab."
Over 5,700 cases of the new coronavirus have been diagnosed in the U.S., a number that has more than doubled since last week. At least 94 people have died, and the CDC has pointed out that if China is any indication, serious illness may occur in up to 16 percent of cases, including "people of all ages with heart disease, lung disease and diabetes."
Take Your Worship Digital
Given this environment, why would any priest or religious leader be effectively asking their followers - most of whom are likely elderly - to put themselves at unnecessary risk? Is it so hard for certain God-fearing individuals to err on the side of science for once?
Listen to the CDC: avoid all large gatherings. Stay indoors. Worship digitally. And for God’s sake, wash your hands.
The sooner we all make the hard sacrifices, the sooner we get out of this crisis.
159 comments
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Daniel Gray
I have seen this claim over and over and even heard it from Granholm of Michigan about there being confederate flags and nazi flags into the statehouse in Michigan, and yet when the national media demanded that Granholm validate it, she could not show one picture backing her up in any way, in short she got caught in a LIE! its called trying to CYA and she failed. Thats why she has at least 8 federal felony lawsuits against her right now and a petition that at last count had close to 400,000 signatures on it for a recall to get her thrown out of office. And even if the petition fails this will be her last time in office as she has ticked off way too many people. Just like the Gov of kentucky who was forced under threat of being arrested for a federal felony of violation of the 1st amendment for him to recind his closing of churches order, or the idiot in Mississippi who had DOJ agents standing right in front of him with handcuffs and gave him a choice to vacate all the 500. tickets issued to people in their cars in a church parking lot or go to prison. Not surprisingly the tickets were voided and the order went out state wide NEVER to do this again.
As for the rifles....under Michigan state law unless it is clearly marked that no guns are allowed then they can be taken in as long as the person who has one has a weapons permit. Everyone who was checked had a weapons permit so no law was being broken.
Whats wrong John, getting even more desperate because even the law now is slapping you upside the head to get your attention that you are wrong?
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Daniel Gray
Sorry John, but the 1st Amendment will destroy these lawsuits as they cant overturn the US Constitution. You have lost now grow up and get over it
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, only if even you don't have sense enough (which is entirely possible!!) to stop any loved ones or friends (which you definitely don't have!!) from walking into burning churches or churches that are being destroyed by earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis or other natural or man-made disasters, even though that is their 1st Amendment right, so that they wouldn't die, can you really not understand what is the unwritten clause in the 1st Amendment and every other law!! Because the unwritten law is just common sense and expecting everyone who has common sense to be able to figure some things out for themselves and not need everything to be spelled out for them!! So, yes, since you don't have any common sense at all, of course, you can't figure out what the unwritten clause in every law is because you do have to have everything spelled out for you and can't figure out anything for yourself, since you don't have anything between your ears with which to figure it out and have to be led by the hand like a little CHILD!!! to every conclusion!!! That makes you the CHILD!!! and IDIOT!!! here and I'm only talking to the ADULTS!!! and SENSIBLE!!! people here!!! My claim is already backed up with all these people because they can figure it out and prove it to themselves, but it will never be proved, according to you, because you are mentally incapable of understanding and emotionally too immature to accept it!!! That seems like "myth and fluff" to you because it is way over your very limited "comprehension"!! It is, again, obvious to everyone to whom it can be obvious that letter of the law adherence to every law without any moderation or exceptions whatsoever can't possibly be practiced all the time, as the above exceptions show, but that will never be obvious to those to whom it can't be obvious, such LITTLE CHILDREN!!! as yourself!!! People are actually seeing right through you here, no matter what LIES!!! and FANTASIES!!!! you tell yourself about that!!! You will never be able to grow up and see and admit that you are wrong and have lost this discussion, since you are too mentally incapable and emotionally immature (and always will be!!!) to do so!!! No mature and reasonable ADULT!!!! is asking or expecting that the obvious unwritten clause of common sense not be talked about anymore!! So, your asking or demanding that it not be talked about anymore reveals the depth and severity of your immaturity and mental incapacity!!! You can't get over that and so we just have to look down on you and condescend to and patronize you, as I'm doing right now to you and as adults have to do to little children, such as yourself!!! "A.G." Barr is just a puppet and mindless drone of Trumpelstiltskin and so nothing that he says about anything matters at all!!!
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Daniel Gray
Seems John the only idiotic person in the world right now is one that makes a claim and then refuses to back it up. Sorry John, its put up or shut up time. Show the "unwritten rile" in the 1st amendment or cease speaking of it for all time. Your choice as any other option is going to be nothing but myth and fluff and people will see right through you
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Stacey Owens
I have a question, if God honors authority of the land wouldn't he first honor His will first and then the authority of mans 1st amendment second? As it is written, Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
So I ask you Danial Gray, Seek Gods will in all you do, and he will show you which path to take. Praise the Lord!
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Lionheart
For those of you believe in a god and like to follow it, whichever one it is, it’s an interesting thought. I often wonder if people would feel differently about a god if it could not only be proved to be real, but if it was female, or transgender. I know that’s a queer statement (pun intended) but after all, men are born with nipples 🤪
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Stacey Owens
My God is a living God. He is not a it, He lives in truth and when you see Him He bares witness of himself, when He speaks He does not speak in condemnation,He speaks to comfort you. He is the peace that surpass all understanding.
When you here false witnesses speak of Him they talk of Him in hate. They don't realize He hates liars, horemonger, people who bare false witness against another, haterd, murder, thieves etc.
Jesus Christ never condemned anyone, he gave his life to become our comforter and declare the glory of God. Jesus Christ gave his life to reconciled man back to the image and likeness of the Father so that man would declare Him.
God is not judging the world, man is the judging the world.
For man will be treated as man treat others. The standard man use in judging is the standard by which man will be judged.
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Lionheart
Thats all very interesting, thank you, but there is not one jot of evidence to prove your god, or any god, is real. I do hope you understand this. I know you mean well, but in reality, your claim of a god cannot be proven. Until you can show demonstrable evidence that your claim of a god is real, it will just remain another mythical god like all of the others.
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Stacey Owens
Lionheart,
To declare the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ in you, I can prove Gods is real in your foolishness statement. God has confounded you by saying that He can not be proven.
Are you ready to understand the mystery of God?
You are His evidence. You want to know why? Your to busy trying to deny Him. The preaching of God is not real is for you who preach foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
So I give you two thumbs up for the great Job your doing denying Him.
As it is written, GOD will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the inteligent. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Thanks Lion heart, for your witness. I can PRAISE THE LORD!!!
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Lionheart
Thank you for replying Stacey. Your statement of implying that I am his evidence of his reality is of course fallacious. That's like me saying you are the evidence that other gods are real. Do you see the fallacy in that Stacey?
As for your saying god will destroy the wisdom of the wise isn't a surprising statement at all. The mythical Christian god, if thats the one you are referring to, loves destroying things. Innocent infant children is a delight of his to destroy when he gets angry and can't have his own way. That's just how capricious your god is, they have sudden and unaccountable changes of moods. Your god is a jealous god by his own admission, if you want to believe the tales in that old book.
No Stacey, you nor I haven't proved the reality of your god. There is a Nobel prize waiting for the first person on earth to prove any god is real. Your logic falls very short of any demonstrable evidence. If your god really exists, perhaps you could ask him to show up and prove all other religions, and even myself, wrong. I strongly suspect your omnipotent god is not capable of doing that, which will show how incompetent your omnipotent mythical god really is.
I welcome your deity to prove his/her reality, and prove me wrong. We both know it isn't going to show up don't we? And I think we both know why don't we? It just isn't real....is it?
Thank you Stacey, I can praise the Lord of logic, reason, and intelligence, that you are the same as millions of others that cannot prove your god, or any god, is real.
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Stacey Owens
I have one question for you, why do you wast your time proving the heavenly Father does not exist? You have no evidence he doesn't exist and you can not prove it.
In chess I call this a checkmate.
So my theory proves God the Father, the light of the world, the bright and morning star exist. You just can't comprehend Him with your introverted mind. Your a non believer, plan and simple.
Its ok, you can sleep in peace as a non believer. there will be no redemption.
I just want to let you know, God's perfect love is ready for you when you choose to accept him. Christ in you the hope of glory.
It has been a pleasure, God bless you.
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Lionheart
You have got me all wrong, I do not spend my time proving your God, or any God, doesn’t exist. In fact quite the reverse, I am more than happy to join you if you can prove there is one. Being as all you’re doing is just relying on faith, which is no different to any other religion, I have to assume that no God exists until I see evidence. If he actually showed up that would be excellent evidence don’t you think?
Until then, there is no more truth to your religion as there is with any of the thousands of others.
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Stacey Owens
Wait a minute, I hope you don't think I've been talking about religion? I didn't mean to misslead you.
I don't believe in religion, I believe in having a relationship.
I ask him and he gives me the desire of my heart. He leads me and guides me in all truth.
This is what makes my faith different, I do the will of God and if what I ask him is not according to his will, I honor the father by not leading to my own understanding.
What make Him a living God to me, in all my way I acknowledge Him and He directs my path.
He is the fulfillment of my life in the name of Jesus Christ,
In Christ Jesus He is my all in all. No religion can fulfill or re[lace that liberty.
None.
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Lionheart
Oh ok..got it! My apologies.
If others receive direction from their god, or gods, or goddesses of other beliefs throughout the world, get similar direction of being guided in their heart as you do, how does one know which is the real god if their direction in their heart is different to yours?
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Stacey Owens
I said, I have a relationship, its personal.
Religion does not constitute a personal relationship. In a religion you don't have access.
You have steps.
There is no a faith base foundation.
Once you break a rule in a religion you have to be disciplined to overcome.
As for the god of a religion, he never moves to correct you or bares witness of himself. The servants in the religion always move in the responsibility.
The God I serv is a living God. He needs no introduction.
He is. point blank
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Daniel Gray
1st Amendment...the law that says you cant make a law to stop people from attending or obeying their religions.
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Stacey Owens
Sorry to intrude with all do respect, In Romans 5:2 Says, "We have also obtained access through him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God."
The Father never intended for the 1st Amendment to give us access to Him. It is by faith that we have access and peace with God If we stand behind the 1st Amendment to gather in a church to fellowship, then our faith is made void and puts us under the law of bondage. We can not please God operating according to the Law. You will find yourself stumbling at the stumbling stone.
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offence: and whosoever believes on him (Jesus Christ)( shall not be ashamed.
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Daniel Gray
You are not intruding. The 1st Amendment clearly says that no government official can close a church. Now if they (the church) does it on their own then thats them but the supreme law of the land clearly says they cant. Sort of like "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"
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John D. Partin
You can attend to and obey your religions at home until covid-19 has been cured or greatly reduced in cases and deaths. Loving and caring about other people and not contributing to the spread of this virus are also obeying your religion, far more than just walking into buildings and sitting down in pews are!!! Nobody is stopping you or anyone else from following the 1st Amendment, but only telling you to follow it the necessary and right way for now---at home or online!! Why can't you understand that?!! I feel very sorry for you that you can't understand that because you will get yourself and other people sick and dead!!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry John, but the first amendment and the US Department of Justice BOTH say you are wrong and that you cannot force a church to close. IN fact the Gov of Michigan that tried to do just that is now facing two federal felony lawsuits and has a petition over over 150,000 signers that say they want her recalled.
Seems the citizens of the US dont agree with you either.
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, there are a lot of idiotic people in this country, such as yourself, and in the world, who don't know what is good for them and don't care if they get infected or other people get infected by covid-19 and die!! What else is new?!! That doesn't stop common sense and reason from being common sense and reason and the right way!! Your God himself (if you actually believe in the religion that you keep saying shouldn't be prohibited) came down to Earth and was rejected by men when he told them the truth and they had him scourged and crucified!! But that mob of people wasn't any more "right" than this 150,000 signers mob that you are talking about is "right" or those filing those lawsuits because Governor Gretchen Whitmer wants to save them from themselves are "right"!! If you're just talking numbers here and what you can get large numbers of people to go along with and saying "that makes it right!", that also would have made the German people's going along with Hitler "right" and lots of other things in history "right", which we know were actually WRONG!! Those same numbers would also have you believe, consistently, that abortion and euthanasia are "right" just because large numbers of people want and go along with those things, too!! We know that many of these protests, petitions, and lawsuits are put up jobs and fronts for conservative right-wing action groups, who don't care about public health and safety, but only about power and getting and keeping control back from the Democrats! So, appearances are deceiving and they don't represent the actual will of all right-thinking people in this country, who would like to stay healthy and go on living!! "There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof is death" applies to this covid-19 crisis and your side's fighting against protecting ourselves from it more than anything else in modern history!! "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" was also spoken by Jesus from the cross to these protestors against stay-at-home orders, 150,000 signers of a petition against Governor Whitmer, and filers of those lawsuits because all of you certainly don't know what you are doing, either, and will be the death of us all, if you get your way!!! Can 40 million Frenchmen be wrong? Yes, they can, because right isn't proven by numbers! The majority of the human race have always been idiots, with only a few wise people scattered here and there to help them and try to get them on the right path. You can't have it both ways and say that "the abortionists, euthanisers, drag queens, gay people, and others getting their way in our libraries and society don't make them right", but "these petitioners, protestors, and lawsuit filers seeming to get their way makes them right" because you are contradicting yourself!! Gay people and drag queens are right because they are natural and God made them as they are, no matter what you and others "think", but put up jobs and fronts for right-wing groups of protests, petition signers, and lawsuits are wrong because they are dishonest and just power plays!!!
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Stacey Owens
I have a question, if God honors authority of the land wouldn't he first honor His will first and then the authority of mans 1st amendment second? As it is written, Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
So I ask you Danial Gray, Seek Gods will in all you do, and he will show you which path to take. Praise the Lord!
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, 150,000 signers of a petition aren't the majority of the people in Michigan and don't get to overrule the will of that majority and recall a Governor that they elected!!! Protesters armed with AR-15 rifles, trying to force their way onto the floor of the Michigan State Senate in Lansing while it's in session, don't represent the will of the people in Michigan or the right way to present grievances to the Governor!! They do, however, represent the IDIOT'S!!! way of doing that. They couldn't have demonstrated their stupidity any more by wearing placards and holding up signs reading "WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CASES OF COVID-19 AND DEATHS FROM IT YET AND SO LET'S OPEN THE STATE COMPLETELY BACK UP AND REALLY GET THE BALL ROLLING ON THOSE THINGS!!!" than they already did by wearing those weapons and trying to force their way into the legislative chamber of the State House!!! As the Scriptures say, "There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" and that is what those protesters are working towards: DEATH!!! to themselves and other people!!! It's the Governor of any state's job to even care about the stupid people in the state and protect them from themselves and even more not allow their stupidity to harm or kill other people in the state. I've already shown you the evidence online of government's closing down churches for public health violations and considerations, without having to go through all of that again, as though it would be any use showing you anything at all and pouring more water over the rocks in your head and casting more pearls before swine in your "heart" and "thinking"!!!! I've already told you about the government's violating the 1st Amendment and any other rights that they want to in the case of Japanese Americans during W.W.II who were put into internment camps, writers and actors and others who were blacklisted by the Un-American Activities Committee meeting in the Senate under Senator Joseph McCarthy, black people whose Constitutional and human rights have been violated throughout our history, Native Americans whose rights have been violated throughout our history, etc.!!! So, your claim that "the government can't and won't violate 1st Amendment and other rights" clearly isn't true!! You and your kind don't represent the people of the rest of America any more than you represent the people of Michigan!!!
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John D. Partin
Everybody is frustrated by these stay-at-home orders from Governors and want our lives to return to as close to normal as they can get. That isn't the question, but, rather, how do we get back to that: the smart way or the stupid way? Trying to force the Governor of Michigan or any other Governor to open the state back up before we are ready to do so (and bring on a second deadlier wave of this pandemic!!) by entering the State House with AR-15 assault rifles and force your way onto the floor of the Senate in session is the STUPID!! way, endangering their and others' lives if they got their way!! Even Trumpelstiltskin, as stupid as he is, though egging those protesters on---to cause Governor Gretchen Whitmer problems and try to force her to make a deal with them, doesn't really think that that is how government should work and wouldn't put up with that being done in the Senate in Washington, D.C.!! He just doesn't care what happens in Michigan or any other state governed by his opponents and away from him!! Government is supposed to be by the consent of the governed and by their peaceful interaction with their government, not by force of arms or threats or intimidation, which these protesters haven't, obviously, understood yet and probably never will understand!! Our choices aren't only "Open everything up right now and come out of this quarantine and cause the infection and death rates to soar, and to Hell with that, anyway: just open up!!!" or "Keep everything locked down and quarantined indefinitely and let the economy go to Hell", but, rather, some balancing of these two needs of our economy and our health!! It wouldn't do any good for the economy for people to all go back to work and our states to open up completely again, if people get sick and die and the economy goes back in the tank!! The solution is balancing of these needs again and not extremes, either way.
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? Lets here you spew your nonsense again when she is not re-elected or is recalled. Or when the DOJ comes in and forces her to recant her demands as they did with the churches
https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-restrictions-cant-disfavor-churches-justice-department-says-11586903463
https://time.com/5820997/justice-department-church-1st-amendment/
And here it is directly from the SAG Barr https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-william-p-barr-issues-statement-religious-practice-and-social-distancing-0
complain and hyperbole all you want, you lose.
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John D. Partin
The majority of sensible people who see through Trumpelstiltskin's lies and fraudulence, which have you lunatic fringe IDIOTS!!! all blinded and hypnotized and brainwashed, will be enough to get him out of office in November. So, your lunatic fringe won't be enough to overrule the will of the majority who put Governor Gretchen Whitmer into office!! If you lunatic fringers want to go off and get infected by covid-19 and die by yourselves, go ahead and do so, but just leave other people alone and out of your idiocy!!! The "DOJ" and "A.G." Barr are just Trumpelstiltskin's puppets and drones and so nothing that they say matters at all!!! Common sense of protection and isolation from this virus won't be overruled by any sensible people and those who try to overrule them will themselves be overruled by sensible and self-preserving people, who want to stay healthy and go on living!!! Any "churches" overruled by senseless people and aims prove themselves not to be actually churches at all!!!
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Daniel Gray
SO where John does that leave you when the 1st Amendment as well as the US DOJ and the US SUpreme Court all three call you are liar? Are you going t continue to whine and cry or are you actually going to un knot the problem you seem to have in your drawers that makes you whine like the losing child you are?
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John D. Partin
As has already been explained repeatedly, over and over again, to you (which is always just casting pearls in front of swine and pouring water over the rocks in your head, since you don't have anything in your head that could EVER!!!! understand it!!!!), the 1st Amendment and DOJ and Supreme Court DON'T!!!! say anywhere that the free exercise of religion can only be practiced by walking into church buildings and sitting down in pews because religious devotion is an interior practice and feeling and so not dependent on external actions for its fulfillment. Prisoners in Nazi death camps and solitary confinement, who couldn't get to a church, have still practiced the free exercise of religion and so prove you WRONG!!!! once again!!! What they have done and how they have done it is what anyone else can do and how they can do it!!!! If you weren't too busy whining and crying and being hysterical here and having a knot in your drawers, while accusing me and other peoole of what YOU!!! are actually doing, you might be able to see and admit that, but since there is no danger of your ever coming out of all your whining, crying, hysteria, and panties' being in a bunch and knotted up, there is also no chance of your ever being able to see and admit and understand the truth about that or yourself, either!!!! Your hysterical and whining fits here are just more evidence for the prosecution against you and that I and other people here are right about you, which you are just too STUPID!!!! to ever understand!!!! So, just keep the evidence against you coming there, dummy, and testifying against yourself!!! We appreciate your helping to convict and incriminate yourself, even though we have more than enough evidence against you and of your stupidity already!!! It's still fun to read here!!! How very sad and ridiculous and what a FOOLISH CHILD!!! you are, little Danny!!!
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Daniel Gray
Already proved you wrong yet again Johnny, so when are you going to have the sense to understand it?
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-william-p-barr-issues-statement-religious-practice-and-social-distancing-0
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, "proving me 'wrong'" in your little fantasy world, where you are "right" and everyone who refutes and disagrees with you is "wrong", doesn't count because the real world proves that I'm right about you and these matters!! Billy Barr is a fraudulent and corrupt "A.G." and so nothing that he says in the post that you cited matters at all!!!
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John D. Partin
DG, once again, your calling me or anyone else a "whining liar" is just more of your usual transference on to other people of your own actual character traits and that name calling that you are always complaining about other people's doing to you, which makes you a big HYPOCRITE!!! and PHONY!!!!!
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John D. Partin
Obviously, to all reasonable people who can even understand the obvious, corrupt people and administrations or organizations are unworthy of being trusted or given the same respect as are more honest or incorrupt people or administrations or organizations. Trumpelstiltskin is a JOKE!!! "president" who stole the presidency and has told over 17,000 lies since he stole the presidency. So, nobody in his fraudulent administration, such as "A.G." Barr, can be trusted, either, because he is part of that corruption and is just his boss's flunky, stooge, puppet, and mindless drone and has corrupted the DOJ, too!!! How would this "president's" subordinates be more honest than he is?!! They wouldn't and couldn't be!!! This is already well understood by all reasonable people, which leaves little Danny and his ilk out in the cold and their ignorance here!! Anyone who thinks that Barr and this "president's" other henchmen are going to be more honest than he is desperately needs to be sold a bridge or some "prime Florida real estate" (swamp land!!) because they are ripe for being conned by that, too, since these flunkies' positions depend on their going along with his corruption!!! So, nothing that this corrupt "A.G." Barr says about any legal matter has any credibility at all and shouldn't be accepted, since he has distorted and corrupted legal standards, definitions, and practices!!! He is no more an actual A.G. than his boss is an actual president, but they are both frauds, liars, ctiminals, and phonies!!!!
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Daniel Gray
Go right on ahead and try it in a court of law as its a sure fire win. It forced the govs of almost every shut down state to back up and back off Churchs and the ones who didnt are now being sued. get over it you cant avoid the 1st amendment any dang time you want to
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, the free exercise of religion isn't about walking into buildings and sitting in pews because that isn't exercising anybody's religion, but is about loving your neighbor as yourself, doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, and following Jesus' teaching "whatsoever you have done unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done unto me" and other Godly teachings. So, it can't be prohibiting the free exercise of religion to prohibit, temporarily, something for public health and safety that isn't what religion is about, anyway, since Jesus didn't come to teach us how to be better pew sitters or even church goers, but how to love other people more! Once again, you have ignored and refused to consider all the other points in my post to you and concentrated narrow-mindedly and fixatedly only on the 1st Amendment and what you want to think about, instead of opening your mind and heart to love and concern for other people and something more than your small-minded view on the matter, as legalistic and uncaring Pharisees, such as yourself, have always done!!! If the government was telling people not to love or care about other people, then they would be prohibiting the free exercise of religion, but their telling people not to congregate in churches during this pandemic out of love and concern for others and to slow the spread of this virus, and if they won't do so voluntarily issuing executive orders to stop them from endangering public health, which they shouldn't be doing, anyway, if they love other people, doesn't qualify as prohibiting the free exercise of religion!!! It is, rather, encouraging the exercise of religion, as any sensible and caring person can see!!! Whatever made you so hard-hearted and mean spirited and totally lacking in any compassion at all for other people's suffering that you can go on ignoring all the misery and death that you see this virus causing in America and the world and just doggedly keep saying "The 1st Amendment is all that matters and nothing or nobody else is important!!". You don't even care about Rev. HeidiAnne's father-in-law who died, as I told you in my post before, but just offered her your phony sympathy and crocodile tears and then immediately reverted right back to your line here!!! I don't know how to get through to something like you and soften your stony heart and give you compassion for other people, but then even Jesus couldn't get through to those hard-hearted Pharisees and bring them out of their legalism, either, and so it is more understandable why I can't do that with something like you!!!!! So, now, as usual, come back with more of your fixation and saying "The 1st Amendment is all that matters!!".
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Daniel Gray
And you still have yet to disprove the 1st amendment no matter how hard you have tried
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John D. Partin
And you still have yet to respond to any of my points and observations about you, since you are too afraid to even try!!!, and haven't shown how closing churches, which are a public health danger right now, since church attendance and sitting in pews isn't our religion, anyway, and loving and caring about people instead, which is our religion, "violates" the 1st Amendment!! So, go ahead and show how that is "true" and respond to my observations about you!! Evasiveness is an admission of cowardice and of no reasonable answer to questions or points from anyone!!
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Daniel Gray
And I did, I clearly showed that it was a violation of federal law. Something that you refuse to understand
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John D. Partin
You refuse stubbornly and Pharisaically to understand that loving and caring about other people isn't a violation of the 1st Amendment or the free exercise of our religion because that is our religion, and not the mere walking into buildings or sitting down in pews, which Jesus didn't come or need to come to show people how to do, since they had been doing those things for thousands of years before he came!! There is no way to get that into a Pharisee's head, such as yours, since your eyes, ears, and "mind" are too tightly closed for it to ever get into your head, but it's still the truth, regardless of your not admitting it!! So, go on in your bigotry and be a happy camper with all that, since ignorance to you is bliss!!!!
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John D. Partin
Besides, not proving that loving and caring about other people are any kind of violation of the 1st Amendment, which they clearly aren't, you also still evaded answering the question why are you so hard hearted and lacking in compassion for other people and put your interpretation of the 1st Amendment above the needs and rights of other people. So, if you don't chicken out or weasel out of answering again (which, of course, you will!!!), what is the reason for your hard heartedness and indifference to other people?!!
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John D. Partin
You still haven't answered why you don't have any compassion or concern for other people and put the 1st Amendment above people and their needs. Also you wouldn't insist on people's going into burning churches or churches destroyed or being destroyed by earthquakes, floods, tidal waves, tsunamis, bombings, or other natural or man-made disasters, but still, inconsistently and irrationally, insist that they keep going into churches where covid-19 is running rampant and people are being infected, getting sick, and dying!! So, what is the reason for your hard-heartedness and indifference to people's misery and death and preferring the 1sr Amendment over people and the reason for the discrepancy between your making allowances for people's not going to churches during all these other natural and man-made disasters, while not making allowances for people's not going into churches because of covid-19?!! So, don't chicken out and weasel out of answering those questions, as usual with you, and actually answer my questions, for a change!!
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Daniel Gray
Already DID answer you John and you refused to accept fact.
Fact the 1st Amendment is a law that cannot be violated no matter who tries it.
FACT: Every law enforcement officer and politician SWEAR to uphold the laws of the US. Now if they dont then they broke their oath of office and are not fit to hold same.
How many times do I have to explain this to you John before it sinks in? Or how about this..."Those who would trade liberty for a bit of safety are deserving of neither" Ben Franklin
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John D. Partin
How even something like you can "think" that reverting back to your standard and monotonous line of "the 1st Amendment is a law that cannot be violated", like a broken record, has anything to do with the subject of why you don't have any compassion or concern for other people or answers that question is beyond belief!!! and demonstrates even more your irrationality and circular and loop "thinking", which you can't seem to rise above or extract yourself from, and puts you squarely in the same category as Nazis who, when asked why they committed their war crimes at Nuremberg, merely said: "We were following orders and German soldiers don't think about their orders, but only obey!!!". When you and other like-"minded" people can't stop to think about your orders or laws or Constitution, either, and use some common sense in dealing with and executing them, but only rigidly and mechanically keep repeating "the 1st Amendment can't be changed or interpreted to fit the situation, but only rigidly obeyed!!", you make yourselves the same as these Nazis!!! Even U.S. soldiers, who are bound by the Constitution, too, and have to follow orders can still say, if they are given an unlawful order, that they will not obey it. Otherwise, they would be no better than the Nazis, either!!! I have already told you about the Pharisees who believed, as you do, that the law must be followed to the letter---and their law didn't just come from the U.S. Congress, but directly from God Himself or so they believed. And Jesus still said to them "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath", just as I say to you, following his example, "The 1st Amendment was made for man, not man for the 1st Amendment" and it is here to serve our needs, not we here to serve its needs. We came up with the 1st Amendment; it didn't come up with us!!! It's a matter of priorities!! How many times do I have to explain this to you, Daniel, before it sinks in? Your rigidity and thoughtlessness will NEVER!!! sink into me because, then, I would be as rigid and unthinking and uncaring as you are and will never let myself get into that situation or mental condition!!! If God had thought that rigid and unthinking and uncompromising obedience to the letter of the law was really "the right way to go", He would have stopped at the Pharisees, who had that down to a tee and perfect, and not have bothered sending Jesus into the world, but He did send Jesus to teach us a new way of love and compassion and putting other people ahead of laws and the 1st Amendment (in your interpretation of it) because people come first and God loves them and wants us to love them, too, and put them first!! I know that this still isn't sinking into that closed "mind" and "heart" of yours, but I'll keep trying, just as Jesus kept trying with the Pharisees, though he knew, too, that he wasn't getting anywhere with them, either!!! After all that, I'm still waiting for the answer to why you don't have any compassion or concern for other people and put the 1st Amendment over all of them?!! As for cops and politicians swearing to uphold the laws of the U.S., I covered that with talking about Nazis and U.S. soldiers above and our not having to follow unlawful orders, as the Nazis did. So, refer back to that, so that I don't have to keep going over the same ground with you!!! As for Ben Franklin's saying "Those who would trade liberty for a bit of safety are deserving of neither", wanting to stay healthy and go on living isn't trading liberty for a bit of safety!! Are you serious and for real?!! Those who aren't still alive in this world can no longer have any liberty in this world!! So, life would certainly come before liberty, wouldn't you think, since you can't have liberty here without it?!! Dead men tell no tales, don't go on protest marches, don't sign petitions against Governor Whitmer, don't file lawsuits, or do anything else that your right-wing action groups are doing!! So, in spite of yourselves and your best efforts not to, you also actually agree, in practice---if not in words, that life comes first and health as a prerequisite to having that life!! Benjamin Franklin also said, after signing the Declaration of Independence: "If we don't all hang together, we shall all hang separately!". Likewise, if we don't all be united against this virus and hang together, it will get us one by one and we shall hang separately!!
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Daniel Gray
how about this then there is nothing you can say or do to try and refute this Oh And here it is directly from the SAG Barr https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-william-p-barr-issues-statement-religious-practice-and-social-distancing-0
complain and hyperbole all you want, you lose.
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John D. Partin
"A.G." Barr is just a puppet and mindless drone for Trumpelstiltskin and so nothing that he says about anything matters at all because it is, of course, a distortion of actual legal standards and practice!!!
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Stacey Owens
Please take heed everyone called of God in Christ. Grace and peace from God the Father and the Lord Christ Jesus. Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her unbelief, and that you receive not of her plagues. For her unbelief have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered her lawlessness.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce and deceive you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things (The Spirit of Truth), and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.
And you who keep his word dwells in him, and he in you. And you know that he abides in you, by the Spirit which he has given you.
Therefore, "Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."
in the name of Jesus Christ the Lord.
Amen
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Stacey Owens
Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh.
We need to stop trying to make the world conform to the will of God. Just because the world has it written don't mean that the world will fulfill its own law. We need to sit down and let God work. Because Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law. Amen!
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Daniel Gray
Article 1 Section 1 US Constitution.
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JKM
Thinning the herd.
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John
Since many of these die hard Christians are convinced that their faith will keep them disease free, let them volunteer in hospitals and save on PPE by refusing to use any of them. They'll meet their maker a whole lot sooner; Nearer. to God to Thee
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Stacey Owens
You can wash your hands and put a mask on to cover your face but it won't save you. It won't deliver a person from not acknowledging the Gospel Of Christ Jesus. We must confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and while confessing, believe that God has raised Christ from the dead, so that the confession can be made unto salvation and lives can be reconciled unto God. This is the message the Holy Spirit Is saying. If we can allow Jesus Christ to glorify God in our mortal flesh, so that the scriptures can be fulfilled which says, that he might gather together in one all things in Christ so that the Son may glory in Him.
Amen.
Praise the Lord!
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Norma Battes
I understand natural selection.
Just so everyone in the congregation puts on their mask when they leave their church, wash their hands regularly, and keep their distance around other people.
What you do in your church is between you and your faith. What you do in public is everyone else on earth.
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Stacey Owens
When concerning the flesh (1 st Amendment). It neither here nor there. Its Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. As it is written, He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Let go of this and let God.
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Daniel Gray
The 1st Amendment of the US Constitution which says you CANT order churches to be closed. If they close on their own that one thing, but the supreme law of the land says you cant do it on your own
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Stacey Owens
We shouldn't have to prove to the world we are Christians or prove our faith in God to the world or prove we have faith. What does the scriptures say, in Galatians 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. We need no honor from man for the honor that comes from God is greater. This is a personal relationship. Our focus is to honor God and know Him. For in Christ Jesus he is the Lord our righteousness. We shouldn't boast about going to church. But boast about Christ that He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. Praise God!
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Bruce Alsup
The "church" is NOT a building--it is a body of believers. Thank GOD we can now "gather" electronically using a variety of platforms. Even our little church ReachArchies.com did not have to cancel services; we meet on a Facebook page every Sunday morning for bible study and messages from our pastoral staff. Our senior pastor delivers messages electronically almost daily.
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Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey
Only the gullible are buying into the media hype and propaganda.Wake up and quit drinking the kool-aide, the CDC is putting out misinformation.
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
I really hope you aren't serious!!!! Gladly go to church and get yourself arrested. If you or anyone else you know gets sick or dies, whatever. Hust don't be stupid as to infect others, bec. that's murder!
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John D. Partin
Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey, I agreed with you against Sibyltheheretic, but must disagree with you about this and say to you, as I said to Daniel Gray, that if you "think" that the virus is a "hoax, media hype, propaganda, kool-aid, and misinformation put out by the CDC" you can prove that very easily to yourself and demonstrate it for all of us by going out without a face mask into crowded churches and other hot spots and see what happens to you!! Over 33,000 dead (as even reported on Fox News, which certainly isn't a left-wing media outlet!!) doesn't sound like "media hype" and the rest of that to me!!!
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Tabitha
Let them gather and kill each other off. We'll have far fewer bigoted hypocrites in the world
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
If I could have given you more than 1 upvote, I would have!!!
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Richard Lee Cornell
The other day I went to Willow Creek in South Barrington, Illinois for food. When I left there was a line of cars streching for a mile. It was curb side bags given out. The service itself has been only online. While you might believe in Jesus this virus is a real killer. It spares no one. While it kills those with medicial problems first, it will be hard to tell theese children that when their parents die it was from the act of God and not that they were stupid.
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
My former father in law was 94 and in very good health and was in his Fort Myers Florida apartment. He tripped over his rug and fell , he was in the hospital for 2 days for observation. He died in the hospital from the virus.
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Donna Mayotte
churches are places to gather; however, god does not live there. If a higher power truly lives within us and within our church at large, people can be inspired wherever they are. Congregating is a habit, not required. Gathering in large number in close spaces is apostasy: tempting god. How presumptuous!
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Rev Ned
Parishioners who want to meet God will attend.
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
THESE PEOPLE WHO NEED TO MEET THE LORD SOONER IF THEY ATTEND. THERE WAS A PASTOR WHO HAD HIS CHURCH DOORS OPEN WITH HIS WIFE AND DID NOT DO SOCIAL DISTANCING . HE SAID THE LORD IS BIGGER THAN THE VIRUS! GUESS WHAT? HE DIED O THE VIRUS AND HIS WIFE, AND DAUGHTER HAS IT. I MIGHT SOUND HARSH, BUT I DON'T CARE, THEY DESERVE TO DIE, AND SO DO THE WHOLE CONGREGATION!
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Sara Lizabeth Rawlins
If the 1st amendment is the reason/problem for those who are hell-bent on killing others by not practicing social distancing or self-quarantining themselves, then, by all means, scream "FIRE" in a crowded place with only 2 exit doors available for people to get out. See how stupid that sounds? For the sake of others, unless you enjoy going to Funerals (if you are allowed more than 10 people to show up), STAY HOME and go out responsibly if you have to leave your home. God understands and He doesn't want to see you any sooner than you think He does. He can hear you just as well at home as in a church.
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Robin Marie Chernault
I’m in shock! This a pandemic folks! God lives within us not just the four walls of a church. Addressing the comment below, yes it’s a First Amendment right, but for public safety even theirs, their churches should close as per their states ordinances. The only proven way to stop the Coronavirus #socialdistancing! It doesn’t discriminate between. Christians and other faiths either! How could ANY responsible officiant of any faith be that irresponsible?!
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Daniel Gray
To all who are complaining about the churches staying open....maybe you should read the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution which has been federal law and supreme law in the US since 1787
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"
Sort of destroys your complaints and accusations and whines now dont it?
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Robert A Stiff
I'm all for Daniel going to church every day...the sooner such ignorance is removed from the gene pool, the better.
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
lol Robert A Stiff
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Daniel Gray
If you want to remove ignorance...then why are you still here?
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John D. Partin
If you really "think" that people shouldn't protect themselves from this virus, but just jam up into churches, SRO, and cough and breathe all over each other, and then leave and go back home or all over their city and infect their familes and other people with whatever virus they have contracted, just because they "have the right to do that", why don't you demonstrate that first for all of us and go out without a face mask and jam into buildings with other people just because you can?!! Then, we will be rid of you very quickly and not have to be bothered by your nonsense anymore!! Why are you telling other people to do something that you aren't willing to do?!!
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Daniel Gray
And if you really think you can just destroy 240 years worth of freedoms on a whim, then feel free to go to a country that will allow it as the US wont.
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John D. Partin
It isn't destroying 240 years of freedoms for people to want to stay safe from this virus and the government to do their job and protect the people from this virus, since that is only exercising our freedoms, as all sensible people here can see, which once again leaves you and your ilk (kind or sort of people) out!!! This is way over your head, as usual with you!!! The government definitely would keep people out of churches that were on fire or being destroyed by earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and other natural or man-made disasters, so that they wouldn't be burned up, drowned, swept away, or otherwise harmed or killed, if they didn't have sense enough to stay out of them on their own. So, that is just normal governmental procedure and responsibility. The "absolute right of people to enter any churches whatsoever, regardless of what is happening in them" doesn't exist, as these examples prove, and keeping people out of churches that are infected by covid-19, in order to stop or slow the spread of this virus, is just more of that common sense and necessary policy!! The government would definitely close down churches that were involved in any criminal activity and merely using their churches and hiding behind them and their collars as a front for those activities, such as dealing drugs to children, producing child pornography, selling children to perverts for sex, promoting and funding terrorism and harboring terrrorists, etc. So, your assertion that the government "would never close churches and couldn't close them for any reason" is, quite obviously, unrealistic and unreasonable, since the government puts national security and fighting terrorism over your or anyone else's 1st Amendment or other rights!! The proof of that is seen even more in the incarceration of Japanese Americans in internment camps during W.W.II and denying them their Constitutional rights for the sake of "national security" and in many other instances in our history. Read the 1st Amendment again, honestly this time---for a change, and even you will see that "people can enter churches even when that will make them sick and cause them to infect and kill themselves and others" isn't anywhere in that Amendment!!!
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Brien
Ok, you just stay on this wagon. Here is your chance. Be specific. In what way does any of that statement apply? I see no law made establishing religion, I see nothing that prohibits your deity worship, nor do I see any speech being interfered with. Your turn. Please explain the phrase you are trying to hide behind.
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Daniel Gray
Ohhh, you want to try and be obtuse, ok what part of "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" seems to escape you? If someone demands church's be closed then that is in violation of prohibiting the free exercise thereof" no matter how you look at it. Nice try at spin but you sun into a brick wall called the Constitution, and thats gonna leave a mark
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Brien
No, there is no prohibition of your religion. There is a temporary ban on large gatherings in the interest of PUBLIC SAFETY. This little part seems to escape you. My mother just skyped into mass this past Sunday because her church believes in the safety of its' parishioners. It found a way to still hold services safely. Honestly, your objection is without merit.
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Daniel Gray
And the 1st Amendment does not say you can violate it on a temporary basis, it says you CANNOT VIOLATE IT PERIOD! So my objection is complete WITH merit as the city of Hialeah Florida found out when they tried the same thing against the Santerias so how are you going to refute this US Supreme Court decision?
Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. Hialeah, 508 U.S. 520 (1993)
Seems to show you dont know what the heck you are babbeling about
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Brien
Last time on this. You just refuse to see it because it upsets your make believe righteous indignation. There is NO violation upon the religion. There is no violation of speech. Plenty of churches of a variety of faiths are still holding services and they are doing it online, reaching hundreds if not thousands more people. They are doing it for the safety of their parishioners and public health at large. So, the basis of your altered perception has no validity what so ever. Peace
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Daniel Gray
No last time on this as you refuse to accept that the 1st Amendment has shut you down and the US DOJ agrees with the 1st Amendment.
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John D. Partin
The "free exercise of religion" doesn't only or primarily refer to sitting in a pew or church attendance, but primarily to loving your neighbor as yourself, doing unto others as you would have others do unto you, and following Jesus' teaching "whatsoever you have done to the least of these, my brethren, you have done to me", which constant church goers and front pew sitters very often don't follow!! They are known as hypocrites and have been the scandal from the beginning in the church!! So, it is actually not prohibiting the free exercise of religion to ask people to refrain from church attendance out of love and concern for their neighbors and, if they refuse to do so, forcing them to stay out of church and practice their religion, whether they like it or not!! That doesn't violate the 1st Amendment because, again, just going into a building isn't the practice of anybody's religion and preventing that isn't preventing the free exercise of religion. You can practice your religion and enjoy the free exercise of it anywhere and so do it at home, for now!! This should satisfy the 1st Amendment fanatics, such as Daniel Gray (if anything ever could satisfy him!) and the public health and safety defenders, too!!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry its called "THE LAW" now you violate it at your peril.
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John D. Partin
Because you are a LEGALIST!!!!, just as the Pharisees were legalists and don't care about people's getting sick and dying because they crowd into churches, putting the 1st Amendment (in your interpretation of it and not even the real thing!!) above even good common sense and their avoiding contagion, just as the Pharisees only cared about the law and following it to the letter!!! Jesus couldn't get through to them that they were WRONG!!!, anymore than people can get through to you that you are WRONG!!!, but your not being able to understand that you are wrong and that people come first before laws doesn't make you right or people not come first, no matter what you "think" or what lies you tell yourself about yourself!! When even the law of Sabbath keeping "given by God to man", as was thought, can be amended to put people needs first, any law given by man to man, which isn't higher than a "God-given law", can also be amended and moderated to put people first, no matter what you "think"!!!
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, the free exercise of religion doesn't mean walking into a building and siiting in a pew, but rather loving your neighbor as yourself and doing unto others as you would have others do unto you. So, it isn't prohibiting the free exercise of religion to keep people from assembling in a building, which is a public health danger, but would only be prohibiting the free exercise of religion to keep people from loving and caring about other people. People are the church wherever rhey are, not the building, and so closing a building doesn't close the church or prohibit the free exercise of religion. Just have church somewhere else and social distance for now. That is short enough even for you to understand!! Why don't you go and do what you are telling other people to do and not protect yourself from this virus by jamming into a building with other people, so that you contract the virus and die, just because it is your Constitutional right to go into a building and sit in a pew?!! That isn't your actual religion or Christianity, but what does that matter, right?!! You are truly ridiculous and stupid!!
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John D. Partin
Correction: sitting in a pew.
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Daniel Gray
And yet it still allows you to come here and spew your nonsense about this not violating the 1st Amendment. Heck even the DOJ is saying you are wrong
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, you think that love and concern for other people, instead of just sitting in pews and taking up space, "violates" the 1st Amendment because you don't care anything about or love any other people at all, and so can't see how that could actually be the religion, instead of just sitting in pews and walking into buildings being the religion, since that's easier for you!!! And considering how screwed up the DOJ is under Trumpelstiltskin, especially, I wouldn't consider them to be experts even on defining "justice" or "law and order", much less what religion is or what violates or doesn't violate the 1st Amendment!!!
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, it is your own hard-heartedness and indifference to and lack of compassion for other people's suffering and death that makes you call loving and caring about other people "nonsense" and "a violation of the 1st Amendment"!!. Considering how screwed up the DOJ is under Trumpelstiltskin, especially, I wouldn't trust them even to define "justice" or "law and order", much less what religion is or what is or isn't a violation of the 1st Amendment!!
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Lionheart
Logic and reason works in mysterious ways doesn’t it? Those who wish to defy it by congregating in buildings when the CDC puts out good educational guidelines to mitigate our chances of catching this deadly virus could sadly suffer the possible consequences. This virus is no respecter of any religion, only those with common sense.
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Some people seem to think the way to go is to live fast, love hard, and die young. The world is over populated, and the apocalypse is taking too long to get here, so it's no sweat off my back. Seek to help those who want it, and have enough sense to come in out of the rain, instead of staying outside and staring up at it, until they drown with the other turkeys. As with the holy words of St. Ozzie, "I don't want to change the world. I don't want the world to change me." Cheers!
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Chaplain Shawn
The old saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" still applies, right? Maybe I am wrong. Suppose a hypothetical scenario with me. Let's assume people do not stay home. They go about their business everyday, and everyone gets the Coronavirus, which sounds really bad, right? However, let us further state that the current death rate remains the same. What this means is if everyone caught this virus and the current numbers stay the same, only 1.65% would die. The numbers come from the article. 5,700 positive cases and 94 deaths in America. Hence, (94 / 5,700) * 100 = 1.65%.
If we look at this objectively, the number of cases will most likely grow. However, you do not want to focus on the number of cases. The focus should be on the number of deaths, and how well prepared medical facilities are to handle the positive cases. It is important to note that the quality of medical care varies across the globe country to country. So hypothetically, 100% death rate in China compared to a 1.65% death rate in America is not comparable and vice versa.
When responding to the article, it is irresponsible to subject congregations to the possibility of contracting the virus. The church's position might be that more people die from the flu each year. However, now is not the time to be brazen. Now is the time to be cautious. Now is the time for discernment. It is not the time to be sheeple, as one commentator mentioned. The Lord helps them who help themselves. Meaning, are you really helping yourself if you put yourself in harm's way?
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Chaplain Shawn
The old saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" still applies, right? Maybe I am wrong. Suppose a hypothetical scenario with me. Let's assume people do not stay home. They go about their business everyday, and everyone gets the Coronavirus, which sounds really bad, right? However, let us further state that the current death rate remains the same. What this means is if everyone caught this virus and the current numbers stay the same, only 1.65% would die. The numbers come from the article. 5,700 positive cases and 94 deaths in America. Hence, (94 / 5,700) * 100 = 1.65%.
If we look at this objectively, the number of cases will most likely grow. However, you do not want to focus on the number of cases. The focus should be on the number of deaths, and how well prepared medical facilities are to handle the positive cases. It is important to note that the quality of medical care varies across the globe country to country. So hypothetically, 100% death rate in China compared to a 1.65% death rate in America is not comparable and vice versa.
When responding to the article, it is irresponsible to subject congregations to the possibility of contracting the virus. The church's position might be that more people die from the flu each year. However, now is not the time to be brazen. Now is the time to be cautious. Now is the time for discernment. It is not the time to be sheeple, as one commentator mentioned. The Lord helps them who help themselves. Meaning, are you really helping yourself if you put yourself in harm's way?
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Rev. D.H. Zielinski
We should all be prudent about closing the houses of worship. Many of us have online ministries that address the needs of our fellow worshipers. It seems to me , and perhaps I am being cynical about this, but perhaps the "churches" that are staying open to hold services are doing this for4 the money that it could bring in. If so shame on them. You can do God's work much better if you are alive, and spread the word of God than if you are out there spreading covid-19.
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Br'er George
Stewpid iz az stewpid duzz an' stewpid'll take keer uv itself.
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Daniel Gray
Ok I am not wearing a tinfoil hat but what would be the easiest way to destroy a country? You get a virus that gets the leaders all hot and bothered so much so they start shutting down businesses and malls and barber shops and so on, just exactly what is going on now. And as soon as they get that then we are in a weakened position, then all of a sudden someone comes up with a cure and they are hailed as a hero. Something stinks about this and it isnt the cheese.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It might even be China and Russia's new way of helping Trump win the election, since we're on to them about the way they did it last time.
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Lionheart
Well, we suffered 8 years of the Obama Virus so we can cope 🤪
Stay well my friend.
🦁❤️
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, you can very easily prove to yourself and demonstrate for all of us whether this virus is just a hoax and "conspiracy to gain power, destroy the country, and weaken us" or not, as I told you already, by going without a face mask into crowded churches and other hot spots and see what effect all that has on you!! So, please, try that experiment very soon and have somebody get back to us to tell us the results of that, in case you aren't able to do so!!
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Daniel Gray
Still sending out smoke to try and cloud the issue that you are wrong and that just rips you apart dont it
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John D. Partin
DG, you are the one who said that covid-19 is a "hoax" and that you and many people are "immune to it", but when you are caught in your lie and your bluff is called and you are expected to give us proof that "it's a hoax and you are immune", as usual with you, you chicken and weasel out again by trying to turn it around and accuse other people of what you are actually doing and blowing out more smoke screens to hide yourself!!! We are still waiting for you to prove that covid-19 is a "hoax" and that you are "immune to it". So, when will you be doing that?!!
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Reverend Cory
Close the doors! God will understand.
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
Amen, Reverend Cory! God bless. Rev. HeidiAnne
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Master Wolf KSC
We already know there have been fatalities, and the percentage of fatalities has remained constant worldwide within a margin of error at 3%. As the known cases rise and as collateral damage rises, the number of real fatalities is going up. Currently the death toll is rising at over 10% daily. We can expect to see certain behaviors that are contrary to general survival, and we are seeing this kind of behavior from high-profile reactionary/right-wing clergy. If their intention is to help their congregants meet Jesus sooner, their actions are congruent with that intention.
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JKM
What an irresponsible and arrogant stance. They act as if they ARE God. Playing God never ends well.
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
This is serious,why some refuse to follow directions.It's beyond me,there's just no explaining some individuals.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way.
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flugo
'sea bee elf': ' . . . perfect in every way.' is a gross generalization.. Objective, intelligent posters usually avoid such ambiguous and misleading blather.
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Vern Dee Wall
Let's get real, shall we?
2 Chronicles 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV) 13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
The real part is that these people think first of toilet paper, not God.
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Lionheart
Yes, let’s get real. Logic and reason will always win out no matter what is written in an old book of fables and fiction. I mush prefer the writings of J.K. Rowling though. Dumbledore has some wonderful sayings in the Harry Potter series. Each to their own I guess. Let’s hope we all get through this virus issue, with love in our hearts for our fellow man.
🦁❤️
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Albert A Hernandez
Comment removed by user.
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Rev. Roe
The church is only a building. We hold with-in what we believe. Perhaps this is the time we need to bend our knees in prayer , YES even at home. God will be there with you even at HOME.
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Anisahoni
Yes and in the garden, back yard, park, under a tree. The buildings are just structures just like you say. When will sheeple wake up?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Nobody has to go to church to find God, or whatever they call their deities. God (The All) is everywhere, and in everything. God is in our hearts, our minds, and our homes. I'm just as religious wherever I'm at, and haven't stepped foot in a church in years. Going to church won't bring anyone closer to God, but these days could make you see God a whole lot faster, face to face, in heaven, after you die from Corona virus. It makes me glad to be an introvert, for I live alone, and love my own company. Oh yeah, I'm staying home all the time, and am even getting my groceries through the mail from Amazon. Practically everyone has an Android phone with internet service, as well as talk and text. I can't imagine needing more than that. We don't have to touch others and breath on them to socialize. If you don't know anyone to call on the phone call unknown numbers. Sooner or later you'll find someone who is lonely too, and will have a great conversation with you. This p to obably won't last forever. What ever has? It just seems that way while it's going on, and we're worried about what the unknown future holds. Don't project the future, or envision worst case scenarios, but live in the present moment, which is all we ever have
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Aqilah Jackson
Keeping any church, synagogue, mosque or temple open during a pandemic is totally irresponsible and shows lack of compassion for those not in your flock. Say your flock is safe and no one gets sick, they are all possible carriers. I have a child in end stage kidney disease, who is on dialysis if she gets this it will most likely kill her. I believe in God with all my heart, but I also believe that God expects us to help ourselves too. So we will listen to livestream from our church and shelter in place with my can of Lysol and bleach wipes.
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
I was unable to give an upvote on here,so here is mine,I too have kidney stage 4. Thankfully mine is stable. I'm so sorry about your daughter. How old is she, how long has she been on it, and does she do it at a facility? God bless. Hug, hug Love, Rev.Heidinne
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arawngraalrd
The Lord might not protect you from this one but, we normally fall ill from time to time, and Healling happens around churches. With a two week incubation period, avoiding infection looks a lot like shutting the door once the horse is gone. There's better than a 2% chance, that the Democratic Party will have no front runners come May.
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Martha Knight
The New Testament shows us that followers of Christ did not meet in church buildings but in homes.
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Tom Thackrey
Even if you believe that your congregation is immune, the responsible thing would be to close and share services digitally. This would set a good example for the community. Of course, if your goal is publicity (not very Christian by-the-way) you are putting your flock at risk for it.
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Herbert Moore
It is difficult to begin to imagine what to say about something so irresponsible. Not only will they cross infect themselves, but I suspect then infect others outside their congregation. I understand the government of South Korea is considering charging the heads of the religious group that created South Korea's initial infection cluster - through their own version of denial - with murder.
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Beth
Churches were closed during the Spanish Flu epidemic in 1918. That was before there were digital options for worship and socialization, even before most people had telephones. Closing a church for the pandemic is prudent, and could be replaced with anything from a livestream on whatever platform to a community radio station broadcasting the sermon and ceremony - using recorded music rather than a live choir.
We got through it then and we'll get through it now. We don't have to risk spreading this.
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Dan Anderson
Let's just say this: THEY HAVE SOME UNMITTIGATED GALL to stay open, spreading the chances of people getting ill. I know that some of them will claiim that "The Lord is protecting us from this disease" and yet, they still have lightning rods on top of their church steeples and roofs.
I wonder how many of their staff will visit their congregation when they are in ICU with the purpose of "praying for them". I suspect when they read this, they will "pray for me", which is nothing more than an idiotic threat because they have nothing to counter the science.
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Daniel Gray
its their 1st Amendment right child, something you cant change.
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, the 1st Amendment and every other law is still subject to common sense and the unwritten clause in the law, which states that you can't adversely affect or endanger other people's lives or your own by your actions. The Pastor violated that clause and so should be arrested, the same as any other lawbreaker!!
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? Try that line in a court of law and see what happens. I can assure you that you wont like the result.
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John D. Partin
I'll try that line in a court of law about someone who is endangering public safety and health and other than making me the Mayor of the City or Governor of the State and giving me the keys to the city and the Congressional Medal of Honor, nothing will happen!!!! You don't care about public safety or health and put unyielding obedience to the letter of the law, instead of the spirit of the law, above public safety and health and only offer your phony sympathy and crocodile tears for Rev. HeidiAnne's father-in-law in her post above, but still immediately after revert right back to your de facto and paraphrased "thinking" and line of "The 1st Amendment is more important than anything else and nothing or nobody else matters"!! The Pharisees before you also only cared about the letter of the law, instead of the spirit of the law, and strict obedience to that letter and put people's needs far below following the law, if anywhere at all, just as you do!! But Jesus told them "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" and called them "blind guides" and "whited sepulchres"! You and that "Pastor" and all other "Christians" who put obedience to the 1st Amendment or any other law above people's needs in this pandemic, especially, and would keep churches open and infect even more people by doing so are also blind guides and whited sepulchres!! Common sense tells everyone who has it (which, as usual, excludes you and your ilk!!) that you must do what is necessary to keep people safe and healthy and put that above the right to go to church, when you endanger people by doing so!! The Nazis also believed in strict obedience to their laws against Jews and other people and so just went along with the murder and persecution of millions of people!! You and that "Pastor" and other "Christians" and Nazis and everybody else are expected by God to be able to think for yourselves and not just blindly follow the 1st Amendment or any other law when you see that doing so would hurt or kill other people and be able to see that and do something else in order to avoid doing that!! That is why God gave all of you brains in the first place, instead of making you mindless creatures like snails or worms, so that you could think for yourselves and not need to follow anybody or anything else all the time!! There is no way to get that common sense into a head such as yours, which isn't designed to be able to understand it, anymore than Jesus was ever able to make the Pharisees understand or agree with him, but that is still the truth and common sense!
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
Thank you John, God bless. Hug hug. From, Rev. HeidiAnnne
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John D. Partin
You are very welcome, Rev. HeidiAnne! Hugs to you, too, and God bless you!!
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
I really liked your post, spot on!
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Daniel Gray
Please do, the DOJ has already said they support the protestors.
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, you say that the DOJ "has already said they support the protesters" and that you support the protesters, even though they brought AR-15 rifles into the State House in Lansing, Michigan, as well as Confederate and Nazi flags and got up in policemen's faces and threatened them, and have done all of this in other states, too!! This is the "DOJ" and "Attorney General" that you "think" that everyone should listen to and follow in their interpretation of the law because, obviously, "they demonstrated such great understanding and enforcement of the law in their support of these criminal protesters", right?!! Barr's and the DOJ's support of these protesters and their actually understanding and enforcing the law are a contradiction in terms and disqualifies Barr from being an actual Attorney General and the DOJ under his "leadership" from being an actual DOJ!! You and your ilk might not agree with that or be able to see that, but that is because you are Trumpophiles, who just automatically and mindlessly go along wirh whatever Trumpelstiltskin says or those in his Cabinet do, and baaa like the sheeple that you are!!! Nobody could ever mindfully go along with any of that and so we all know (and it is obvious!!) that you are all mindlessly going along with it!!!
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Brien
I have seen you use that argument before on other posts. You do realize that amendments can be and have been changed, right? There are ALOT of people going after the second amendment and they just might succeed. What makes you think the first amendment is any more secure? Go ahead, keep endangering the public at large. That will almost guarantee a change. But you really don't care about that either. You just like stirring up trouble. There is a word that describes you best.....toxic.
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Daniel Gray
And I will continue to use it as no matter if you like it or not it is and has been the supreme federal law since 1787 and nothing you do or say or complain about it is going to stop it. So get used to it.
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Brien
You are alone in this. Your self centered view and the way you try to deflect the truth of the matter at hand is as transparent as glass. Yes the first amendment says that the government may not dictate any religion upon you. That is it. The government is not telling you that you cannot pray to whatever deity you chose, it is ASKING that you temporarily modify your behaviour for the welfare of the public at large. Many respected churches have taken the lead on this and have come up with safe ways to still hold a service. Nobody said you could not worship, but right now it simply is not safe to stand shoulder to shoulder within the walls of a church. We are trying to PREVENT senseless death. But not you, you seem to be ok with the projected 200,000 deaths. The term I used to describe your position still fits...TOXIC.
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Clarke A. Stillwagen
Daniel is proof that you can't fix stpid
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Daniel Gray
No that is proof for people like you, you whine and cry and then when asked to prove it you start name calling like a little child. Seems you dont know that name calling clearly shows that you are bereft of any form of common sense in this issue
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Daniel Gray
No Brien, its YOU who are alone in this as churches are not closing and the people who try to force the issue end up on the wrong side of the lawsuit
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Alan Meunier
So, how many have to die until you change your stubborn mind? It's OK to infect even more people? It's OK to let gramma die of it all because you feel so self entitled?
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Daniel Gray
So how many times can you violate the law of the country and not expect to get squashed by the same law?
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Brien
What law are you referring to?
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John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, there are also lawsuits against public endangerment and inciting people to risk their lives and die, and you and that phony "pastor" and others like you will end up on the wrong side of those lawsuits if you keep churches open during this pandemic!!
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Daniel Gray
Oh really? The last one I saw like this JOhn was in florida and the judge threw it out of court with prejudice, that means in legal terms that it can never be filed again.
So exactly what cases are you talking about John? Or are you just making it up as you go along.
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John D. Partin
Are you really saying that I should bother with looking up cases online of people's being sued for public endangerment and wear myself out doing that and cast more pearls before swine and pour more water over rocks (in your head!!) when your constant complaint is that my posts are "too long" (for your limited "comprehension" to "understand") and you don't appreciate my efforts, anyway, and refuse to even consider any evidence that I would show you?!! Without even trying too hard, I can come up with better uses for my time than that!!! I'll give you TWO!! about general public endangerment and the Governor of Kansas suing GOP leaders over limiting church meetings. If you want more than that, look them up for yourself because there are cases of public endangerment involving people's being in churches and getting sick or dying from doing so and disillusion yourself and find out something for yourself for a change!! I don't have all GD day to waste hunting up anything for an ingrate and a hopelessly bigoted person!!! If you can't find them, you're not trying hard enough or trying at all because they are out there!!!
General public endangerment cases:www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2019/04/24/usa-today-revealing-misconduct-records-police-cops/3223984002/; Kansas Governor Sues GOP Leaders Over Limiting Church Meetings:www.huffpost.com/entry/kansas-coronavirus-cases=religious-freedom_n_5e90ab2ec5b6d641a6be4d13 -
John D. Partin
Daniel Gray, here are some examples of churches and pastors getting sued: Church Sued for 2.3 Million for Not Hosting LGBT Event in Building It Owns:www.christianpost.com/news/church-sued-for-2-3-million-for-not-hosting-lgbt-event-in-building-it-owns.html If that can happen just because of a church's not hosting an lgbt event on its own property, how much greater of a reason for a lawsuit would someone's dying due to covid-19 because of attending a church be?!!! Figure it out!!! All Members of One Church Get Sued at the Same Time:www.startchurch.com/blog/view/name/all-members-of-one-church-get-sued-at-the-same-time Televangelist Jim Bakker sued for selling fake coronavirus cure:www.cbsnews.com/news/jim-bakker-coronavirus-covid-19-fake-cure-televangelist-sued-by-missouri-symptoms-selling-treatment/ Church pastor sued for $6M for allegedly using prayer to cure man's mental illness, resulting in him losing his leg:www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pastor-religious-cleansing-made-lose-leg-lawsuit-article-1.2041312 So much for your claim that "churches and pastors can't be sued"!! YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!!! This is all that I'm going to wear myself out with today, to no avail, trying to "get through to you", but will send more examples later, maybe!!
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John D. Partin
DG, here are more examples and cases for you: www.friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/03/24/yes-governors-can-legally-force-churches-to-close-because-of-covid-19/ www.aclj.org/religious-liberty/can-the-government-close-churches-in-response-to-an-epidemic Yes, the government can force churches to close. Here's why: www.deseret.com/indepth/2020/3/21/21185541/coronavirus-utah-covid-19-churches-religious-freedom-synagogues-mosques-police-law www.wydaily.com/local-news/2020/04/21/does-the-ban-on-large-gatherings-violate-the-1st-amendment-of-the-constitution/ Of course, you will read these evidences (if you do at all and don't just refuse to even look at them, out of cowardice that they will get through to you and shake up your little world!!!) with blinders on and your usual tunnel vision and mindlessly repeating that "the 1st Amendment can't be changed or moderated and compromised to fit the necessities of any situation" because you "think" that you know more about the 1st Amendment and the Constitution than even the Constitutional law professors who state their conclusions here do!!! It is only your unfounded egotism and narcissism and solipsism that tell you that!!! So, why haven't you been put on the Supreme Court or become a Constitutional law professor yourself, if you "think" that you know "so much more than everybody else does about the Constitution", so that you could "straighten everybody else out about it"?!! Your claim that the government can't and won't ever violate the 1st Amendment and other rights is disproved by their violating the 1st Amendment and other rights of Japanese Americans during W.W.II by placing them in internment camps for the sake of "national security", violating the 1st Amendment and other rights of those writers and actors and others who were blacklisted by the Un-American Activities Committee meeting in the Senate under Senator Joseph McCarthy, violating the 1st Amendment and other Constitutional rights of black people throughout our history, violating the 1st Amendment and other Constitutional rights of Native Americans throughout our history, and by many other violations of those rights!! The government can and DOES!! violate 1st Amendment and other rights whenever it feels that it is "necessary" to do so!! That is just historical fact!!! So, since the government can violate our 1st Amendment and other rights to hurt us, it can also violate them to help us, occasionally, by keeping people out of churches that are infected by covid-19, so as to slow or stop the spread of the virus, the same as it would keep people out of churches that are on fire or being destroyed by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, and other natural and man-made disasters to keep them safe!! If it can do one, it can do the other!! Your position is completely illogical, inconsistent, insane, and ridiculous!!
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Daniel Gray
And here it is directly from the SAG Barr https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-william-p-barr-issues-statement-religious-practice-and-social-distancing-0
care to guess who has more authority on this then you or your fake sources? complain and hyperbole all you want, you lose.
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John D. Partin
"SAG" Barr is just a stooge, puppet, and drone for Trumpelstiltskin and so nothing that he says about anything matters at all!!! The sources that I gave are, quite obviously, far more authoritative, since they aren't fronts and propaganda and brainwashing, as are Barr's comments!!!
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
Daniel , you are saying that it's the churches right to possibly infect their church flock and kill others! That is stupid to put it mildly and arrogant. The clergy could make their service available by down streaming online, No one's health would be at risk. My former father in law passed away almost 2 weeks ago in the hospital from the virus. true , he wasn't in a Church, and was much older, but the virus is real. Any church that decides to keep their doors open, in my opinion is a mass murderer, criminal intent,, the strongest felonies possiby. and the clergy should to prison and no longer be a minister.
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Lionheart
Sorry to hear about your former father-in-laws untimely passing. I totally agree with you rev.heidianne.
🦁❤️
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
Thank you. Lionheart.
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Daniel Gray
I am saying if the members decide to close the churches then thats them, NOBODY has the right to go to a church and demand it be closed. The Gov of Florida found that out the hard way when attorneys walked into his office and threatened him with a 1st Amendment lawsuit, and the attorneys had a law officer with them at the time. The Gov decided right then and there that he had better exempt the churches and he did. Then the attorneys paid a nice visit to the sheriff of Hillsborough County Florida and had a nice short chat of how if the sheriff persisted and did not void the arrest, then the sheriff would be charged with a federal felony and so would any of his officers who participated. Long story short, the charges have been dropped and the churches are exempt from the stay at home order. And the Police in Greenville Miss are going to find this out the hard way as they issued 500. ticket to cars sitting there with their windows rolled up in the parking lot listening to the church service. And the same attorneys that were in Florida are now in Mississippi. Care to guess what the outcome is going to be? Now while I am sorry for the loss of your father in law, and you and your family have my sympathy.......unless you can prove he caught the virus from the church or someone in the church then you have no right to try and imply this is where he caught it at. And just remember federal law overturns state or local law...and the Constitution overturns all of them. Thats how it is no matter if we like it or not
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John D. Partin
By the way, Daniel Gray, your post above is very long winded and "6500 words to say one sentence", which you are always complaining about in my posts, and you have many of these long posts all over the blog!! That makes you a HYPOCRITE!! for complaining about my posts!!
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
I THANK YOU FOR YOUR SYMPATHY ABOUT MY FATHER IN LAW, BUT IF YOU READ MY POST, I DIDN'T SAY THAT HE CAUGHT IT FROM SOMEONE AT CHURCH!! YOU ARE VERY WRONG ABOUT WHAT I POSTED!
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Daniel Gray
Then why bring him into it?
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
I'M BRINGING MY FORMER FATHER IN LAW THAT PASSED AWAY FROM THE VIRUS, TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE VIRUS IS REAL AND NOT A HOAX!
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
THE PASTOR IN LOUISIANA WHO REFUSED TO HAVE HIS CHURCH CLOSED AND DEFIED THE LAW OF SOCIAL DISTANCING, STATED THAT THE LORD IS STRONGER THAN THE VIRUS, DIED FROM THE VIRUS! HIS WIFE HAS IT, AND ONE OF THEIR DAUGHTER'S HAS IT! IF HE CLOSED THE DOORS, OF HIS CHURCH, HE WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN IT, AND NEITHER WOULD HAVE HIS WIFE, OR AT LEAST ONE OF THEIR DAUGHTERS. RIGHT NOW, THE MEDIA HAS NOT DISCUSSED ABOUT THE REST OF HIS FAMILY MUCH OR HIS PARISHIONERS. IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE HE DEFIED LOUISIANA'S STATE LAW TO CLOSE DOWN THE CHURCH HE DESERVED TO DIE, ALONG WITH HIS FAMILY , AND THE WHOLE PARRISH!
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Daniel Gray
And the 1st Amendment says he was well within his rights to do so and the DOJ agreed with him. next?
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John D. Partin
So, you're saying that there isn't anything that a pastor or church could do or have happening in their church that would cause the police and government to shut the church down?!! Do you really believe that if the pastor were selling heroin and other drugs to children or running a pedophilia ring and selling children to perverts or making kiddie porn the police and government wouldn't shut him down and close his church, but just let him go on selling drugs to kids or selling the kids themselves and making porn movies with them and hiding behind his collar and church to keep doing so?!! Do you really believe that if a pastor or church were harboring and promoting and funding terrorists against this country, the Feds wouldn't be all over him and his church and shut them down before they could say "1st Amendment", but would just let them go merrily on plotting against our country?!! If you really believe that, you are really living in a fantasy world because I guarantee you that the Feds don't care more about your or anyone's "1st Amendment rights (in your interpretation of them)" than they do about national security and fighting terrorism and they would close that church down in a heartbeat and throw that pastor and all other culpable people there into prison!!! Terrorists have tried to hide behind the 1st Amendment to go on promoting terrorism in this country, but it didn't save them because there are other things that are important, too, besides the 1st Amendment and in a contest between those things and the 1st Amendment, the 1st Amendment will lose, and the 1st Amendment has its limitations!! If you doubt that, try making any public terrorist threats against this country and then hiding behind being a minister and being in a church and see if it saves you, either, and learn the hard way!!! I guarantee you that the local police (and Feds!) care far less about your or anyone's 1st Amendment rights than they do about stopping drug dealing or pedophile rings and child pornography and any place that is involved in that, even a church!!! The same as the government has shut churches down that were involved in any of these activities and would, quite reasonably and responsibly, continue to do so, they would close churches down that presented a public health or safety danger to people, again quite reasonably and responsibly, such as churches on fire or being destroyed by earthquakes or tornadoes or floods or tsunamis or other man-made and natural disaters. That includes shutting churches down where covid-19 is infecting people and making them sick and killing them and so are public health and safety dangers!!
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DRREVHANNAHHOPE GORDON
because he didn't close his church, he got the virus and died, his wife has it, and one of their daughters! i think one of the members of the Church has it too. In my opinion all these people SHOULD GET IT, BECAUSE THEY DON'T FOLLOW SOCIAL DISTANCING AND THEREFORE NOT INNOCENT! THE OTHER CITIZENS IN LOUISIANA I HOPE AND PRAY THAT YOU DON'T GET IT. IF YOU DO, I HOPE YOUR FAMILY GETS COMPENSATED IN SOME WAY
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Daniel Gray, here is evidence on YouTube of Confederate and white racist flags carried by the protesters in Lansing, Michigan against the stay-at-home order issued by Governor Whitmer and that the anti-lockdown movement is being fueled by racism. So, you don't need Granholm to validate it because you can see and hear it for yourself, unless you don't even believe what you see with your own eyes or hear with your own ears anymore---and that is nobody's fault but your own!!! It can't possibly by "a lie from Granholm or anybody else" when the evidence of it is put right in front of you, if you aren't too COWARDLY!!! and WEAK-MINDED!!! to even look at or listen to it!!! www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck3FtPbqF2Q (Anti-lockdown "movement": Powered by racism). Author Confronts Anti-Lockdown Protesters Along With Warning For November Election: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCdt_7Vz5Ro Anti-Lockdown Protesters Harass COVID-19 Nurses: www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3p8DSaXGgA Nurses Stop Anti-Lockdown Protesters in Minnesota: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWJU7FONhtI This proves that anti-lockdown protesters are only a lunatic fringe in every state, not just Michigan, and don't reflect the will of the people!! We all want to get back to normal as soon as possible, but most of us want to do it the smart and safe way, not the stupid and unsafe way as you and these protesters want to do it!! You probably won't even look at these videos because you and all of your kind don't care about other people's rights and safety, but only about what you want and your rights, since you are the most self-centered, narcissistic, solipsistic, and indifferent to everyone else people imaginable!!!! You aren't even smart enough to be insulted by that!!! These protesters aren't the only people with any rights, but those who are protesting against them and fighting against them and blocking them have rights, too, and the law is for all of them as well!! You might be able to force some people not to do the right thing by threat of going to prison or some other means of coercion, but that doesn't stop the right thing from being the right thing or coercion from being coercion and the wrong thing, anymore than Pontius Pilate's being coerced to do the wrong thing of sentencing Jesus to crucifixion made that the "right" thing or made that coercion not still the wrong thing!!! If we are talking only about whatever people can be coerced or overpowered into doing's being "the right thing", then you would have to say that Hitler's blitzkrieg and takeover of Europe was "the right thing"!! Besides, which, many people do stand up to coercion and still do the right thing!!! Black Activists Protect Michigan Lawmakers amid Anti-Lockdown Protests: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGCIzoLA6us Anti-Lockdown Protesters Clash with COVID-19 Health Care Workers in North Carolina:
www..youtube.com/watch?v=DbIfSkdvn1I I could go on and on with you of videos of health care workers and first responders protesting against and blocking your protesters, Confederate and Nazi and white racist flags at anti-lockdown protests, and these white racists being egged on by Trumpelstiltskin to cause trouble for his Democratic opponent Governors, but since 1,000 of these videos of protests against your protesters would mean nothing more to you or get through to you anymore than these videos will do, if you even look at them, I'll stop here for now and do more later and not cast any more pearls before swine or pour any more water over the rocks in your head!!! As for it being "alright and legal to carry guns anywhere if you just have weapons permits", I wouldn't advise you to go into a bank with your AR-15 or AK-47, even if it's unloaded, on the theory that "I can go anywhere I want and do anything I want with my GD weapon and nobody can stop me because it's my Constitutional right and so stick 'em up!!!" You won't be going back home for 10 to 20 years if you do!! At least, we would be rid of you that way, if not from your getting infected and dying from covid-19 in a crowded church, and so feel free to do so!! You keep trying to turn everything around on people and say that "the law is slapping them upside the head" and other things that are actually happening to you and transferring that on to them, even when the evidence is put right in front of you to prove you WRONG!!!! once again, as I have done here, but, as always with you, to use your own terminology, your attempts at doing that are always a MAJOR FAIL!!!!!
Daniel Gray, why do you only talk about lock-down protesters and only consider them representative of "the will of the people", while never talking about the people who are protesting against and blocking those lock-down protesters (nurses, first responders, black people, and others, as I pointed out in the videos in my post above), and people who are protesting unsafe working conditions in meat plants due to covid-19, and many other protesters that this pandemic has produced and consider them representative of the will of the people, especially since they outnumber the lock-down protesters?!! Your view of "those representing the will of the people", the same as the rest of your views, is very lop-sided and imbalanced, since lock-down protesters are the lunatic fringe of society!!!