The Church of England has voted to welcome transgender individuals into the church with open arms. By an overwhelming margin, the church's governing body (known as the General Synod) chose to support transgender inclusion. It was a historic decision for a religious institution that for centuries clung closely to tradition and conservative tenets of the faith.
The timing of the vote was fitting, too The General Synod vote happened to occur just as Gay Pride festivities were taking place across England.
Marking the Transition
The motion passed by church leaders provides for transgender "inclusion," but what does that really mean?
Well, as it turns out, a lot. Their plan is to create specific church services to mark a transgender person's "transition" from one gender to the other thus welcoming their new identity into the church community. Just as births and marriages have their own specific religious ceremony, so too will switching genders.
Interestingly, the vote came almost immediately after another remarkable decision: to abandon conversion therapy. Church leaders agreed that the controversial practice which seeks to turn gay people straight was unethical. It would seem the Church of England has undergone a social awakening of sorts.
Dissenting Opinions
Although the motion passed with an overwhelming majority, the vote was by no means unanimous. Many clergy members were uncomfortable with the church endorsing an "unconventional" definition of gender. According to opponents, the Bible makes it clear that humans are created either male or female and that the decision is final.
Many in the conservative wings of the church argue that this is a step in the wrong direction and that revising church policy might actually rob homosexual and transgender people of the opportunity to realize they are making huge mistakes.
Perhaps recognizing that not everyone was on board with the new changes, church leaders will allow dissenting clergy members to opt out. Nobody will be required to perform transgender services if they "cannot in good conscience offer support in a liturgical marking of a person's transition".
A Historic Shift But Why Now?
These latest developments illustrate a conscious decision by leaders of the Anglican Church to be more open and welcoming. However, there remains some doubt about the reasoning behind the sudden change.
Skeptics speculate that the progressive shift is not really based in empathy and open-mindedness, but instead is a calculated decision to boost recruitment. By billing itself as a progressive institution, the Church of England might be hoping to appeal to younger generations and coax new members through the front door.
Regardless of the reasoning behind these new policies, they mark a monumental shift toward inclusion and acceptance a remarkable "about-face" of sorts (one that would have been unthinkable even 20 years ago).
Prioritized Acceptance
Around the world, religious institutions are becoming more and more willing to accept members of the LGBT community into their ranks. However, not all members of this community receive equal support from faith groups. Although gays and lesbians are being welcomed into the fold at higher rates than ever before, transgender people continue to get the cold shoulder in many houses of worship. Perhaps the Church of England's vote for inclusion will encourage other institutions to follow suit, but that's yet to be seen.
How do you feel about transgender church ceremonies?
320 comments
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Robert
seems to em this psychiatric fad of transgenderism is way out of hand and as for welcoming them into a church? yes you can but condoning a perverted lifestyle? no
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Los Guy
I have seen more crime, racist, bigotry from Christians than from any gay person. It is not their choice because only a complete idiot and moron would believe that someone would say to themselves "Gee, I want to be gay so people can abuse me, assault me, call me names, discriminate against me and maybe kill me" because everyone knows how homosexuals are generally treated, Your point of view about homosexuality is archaic and based on no facts at all but fear. They are, the way they are, do to two reasons one they have some genes scrambled in their DNA; Two, doctors have prescribed to the mother during pregnancy, medication that had a male or female hormone in the medication which was opposite to the gender of the fetus. Until just recently this has come out from a number of studies done on transgender people. You can go on being homophobic but the person that is perverted is you putting your nose into people's business that does not concern you. If homosexuals were as you depict in your mind it still would not be your business unless they were hurting others. If they sin and go to your imaginary hell it is their problem not yours and unless you are participating in some homosexual activity (not counting homosexuals going about normal business, going to work, buying groceries, buying wedding cake, buying wedding flowers, etc are not a homosexual activity) it is none of your business, it is the business of those involved only. By the way how do you know what their life style is? Finally did you know that the South Eastern Bible Belt is known for two things opiod addiction and gay pornography and the south eastern Bible Belt is the biggest users of gay pornography...
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Catie
Your Imaginary hell. I like that.
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Bud
One day you may find that Hell is a very real place :) If I'm wrong you have nothing to lose. If I'm right well you might want to give it some thought :)
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Suzyn
Beautiful succinct response, I do t need to add a thing to this post, thanks Guy
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Rick Renwick
Bull. God don't make mistakes. The Bible forbids it in numerous places and we all have choices to make. Choose God or Mammon. He doesn't want robots following him like puppets. Make the choice today. Serve God wholeheartedly or not, it's your choice. I have many friends who are this way, and I love them as much as anyone else. Bottom line, sin is sin punishable by eternal separation from God.
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Clayton Beardmore
Bingo! God don't make mistakes. Your "bottom line" is correct.
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John Maher
TO ALL you BIBLE THUMBERS, BOTTOM LINE it is GOD in the END WHO will PUNISH the SINNER not BABBLING VILLAGE IDIOTS, WHO is the TRUE SINNER, READ on VILLAGE IDIOTS with NO UNDERSTANDING of WHAT U READ, if U READ H A T E from the BIBLE then YOU do N O T follow the WORDS of GOD and HIS SON JESUS,.......DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Ben
Well stated.
You bring up an especially important topic: Those who are severely homophobic are almost always revealed, in the end, to the closeted self-hating gays.
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John Maher
BRAVO GUY WARINNER and WHITE SUPREMACY and HANG on SLAVERY and IGNORANCE for ALL, the SOUTHERN BIBLERS along WIT the RNC / GOP ..... DUMP the NAZI tRUMP
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Bud
John Maher...... Simply put you are an idiot :)
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Minister Mika
I love the simplicity and accuracy of this reply Bud.May God be with you. ^_^
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John Maher
BUD [ BUTTIE ] SIMPLY PUT, YOU AND MUSEY GRITS are SIMPLY SIMPLETONS !!! DUMP the NAZI tRUMP
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Minister Mika
John Maher honestly.Haven't you done enough?You continue to make a fool of yourself.Again,act your age or be treated like the child your make yourself out to be.Just because you are a foolish simpleton yourself does not mean you can go around throwing tantrums.You truly have fallen low little child.Get your act together and be a man.You say you dislike Trump yet you act like him with this nonsense.Your foolish words and weak will .Your disdain towards all who oppose you.You hate Trump yet you and he are very similiar,little one.Perhaps that is what makes you hate him.Do you see yourself reflected him,hmm?Face it John Maher. Change is here.Embrace it or do not that is your choice.BUT do not think to presume you are above others.You are a mere human male whose very soul is tainted with darkness,hatred and bitterness.It is destroying you Little Child.A true Village Idiot.That is you.Grow a pair and learn to let go.Not everything will go your way.This world does not and never will revolve around you.So grow a pair and and be mature.Otherwise go play with your little toys while the adults talk.This is no place for a spoiled child like you.And yes that all caps part was intentional.
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John Maher
DEAR MUSEY and BUD [ buttie ] I do not consider MYSELF to be ABOVE ALL, ONLY at this MOMENT ABOVE BOTH of U.....................................
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Minister Mika
Maher a child is above no one. And you are but a spoiled child who throws a tantrum when someone disagrees with you and things do not go your way. I find it slightly amusing. However, spoiled children must know their place and be humble. No one likes a spoiled brat. Grow up and learn, little boy.
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Clifford Oliver
Not Anti-Gay but Pro-Balance. Confused sexuality exists in both aspects. But neither may find the balance of the Trinity without balancing the aspects within themselves. Think the church should consider, whether it's playing a positive or negative role?
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Rev paul
I think this church is lokking to expand its member ship by having transitoning services to welcome trans genders in to the church
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Preacher Man
Recently, I have seen churches turn a blind eye to younger members who were LGBT because the church didn't want to loose younger members. Guess what! Older members started leaving the congregation because they weren't about to be held to one standard of conduct while the youngsters could do whatever they wished as long as they paid their dues.
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True Bible Believer
Interesting point. As the son of an Episcopal priest, I didn't leave the church - the church left me! Christians are not under the "LAW" (Old Testament/Covenant) but under GRACE (New Testament/Covenant). The old LAW was merely a "schoolmaster" to bring us to the saving grace of the crucified and risen Christ (Savior of the World). The New Testament/Covenant specifically does away with the old LAWS (nailed to the Cross!) regarding food and clothing, etc. It also still specifically forbids homosexual conduct as "abomination!".
I have now left the church that has abandoned its biblical basis and embraced wickedness and sin. What anyone does within the precincts of their own private abode is none of my business, however I reserve the right to oppose and rebuke anyone claiming to be a Christian accepting and condoning that sin.
The church my father served for decades preceding his death forced my family OUT because we would not participate in a gay "wedding!" At this time only 5 previous members of a church that numbered over 600 parishioners remain in that church.The remainder are brainwashed millennials and LGBT radicals who have hijacked the entire Canon of the church. The building and property itself is facing foreclosure at present, and the "congregation" is seeking other meeting space!
That is what these churches are doing to destroy themselves, as it is the older and well established parishioners who faithfully tithe and support the ministry of the church in many other important ways. All I see most younger people putting in the collection plate is a dollar or two, if any! Good luck paying the expenses of the church with that paltry support!
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Clayton Beardmore
Does anyone remember the old gospel hymn "Stand Up, Stand Up For Jesus?" They should certainly be allowed in church, but their lifestyle should not be condoned.
It's the oldest trick in the debater's book - if you don't have a case, BE LOUD. Nobody is any louder than our LGBTQXYZABC friends - but that certainly doesn't make them right !
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Gerry
Here in England we are committed to LGBT to play a full part in Christian and all faith communities. We have the Queen who is head of the Church Of England.
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John Maher
SHOULD that NOT be LEFT for the CHURCH and it's MEMBERs to DECIDE ???
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Preacher Man
Let's see how far the LGBTs get in the Muslim community.
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John Maher
HERB MEISTER, LETs SEE HOW FAR YOU GET in a MUSLIM COMMUNITY, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP god is GREAT so is the US of A
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True Bible Believer
Please take your hateful political rhetoric and blasphemy to your "safe space" where it belongs, which is not here! When I was deployed to a base in Iraq, I witnessed several gays being executed by hanging or being thrown off the roofs of high buildings. I no more condone that than the sin that motivated that murder by allegedly "faithful and devout Muslims."
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John Maher
FOR the TRUE BIBLE BELIEVER, WHY do YOU WHO PROFESSES TRUTH HIDE BEHIND a TITLE LIKE a COWARD WE on this BLOG ARE TRUE MINISTERS and BELIEVERS in G O D, A BOOK is A BOOK, GET a NAME and come BACK AROUND COWARDLY VILLAGE IDIOT, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A,.... IRAQ DEPLOYMENT YOUR ARSE !!!
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Bud
John, just because your named after a toilet doesn't mean you have to be one :) Idiot
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Bud
Jesus is the "Head" of the church. God save the queen :)
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rabbi jim
Praise to the Church of England! Keep up the good work!
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Bud
Praise God not the church of England silly :)
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Mark Niemann
We are all God's children
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Robin Neary
Thank you Mark for putting it simply!! We are all God's children! And deserve His love!
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Walter Filbeck
Indeed!
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Bud
We are not ALL God's children :) We only become God's children when we accept Jesus as our Lord & Savior :)
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Clayton Beardmore
We are ALL God's children, whether we accept Jesus or not.
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revbarbarajadams
I totally agree. In this world, humans seem to forget that we were offered an already stamped return ticket if we just remember we are God's children.
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Robert Taylor
Why not God should be in your heart and so called CHRISTIANS should have a long look at themselves before judging Transgender and Gay people. These people are the nicest people you will ever meet .If someone call themselves a Christian they should welcome all into Gods family.
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John Maher
THE so called CHRISTIANs ONLY QUOTE FIRE and BRIMSTONE from the BIBLE, THEY SHOULD REALLY LEARN HOW to READ ANY BOOK in the LIBRARY and get a MIND, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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revbarbarajadams
That isn't true, John. Not all Christians are like that and to clump us all in one lump sum is intolerant and untrue. I will pray for you and your unabashed anger. Learn to love and accept more. You have been given God's grace. Be grateful for it. I sure am. And I am a Trump supporter and a tolerant Christian. I have no issue with the LGBT community AND I support the Church of England to embrace all people. I only ask you to look into your heart for kindness, acceptance, and tolerance towards people who do not always think the way you do.
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Ben
Rev, bless you.
Please be aware that you are the very first Trump-supporter Christian I have met or heard about that holds a loving and accepting paradigm regarding LGBT people.
So, please, no surprise that our friend John, above, has made negative assumptions about you.
Also, note all the ugly LGBT-phobic rhetoric, on this very page, from Christians, and you will get the gist.
Personally, I have been tormented by Christians for the last fifty-seven years.
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Minister Mika
True enough.not all Christians are bad.however I can understand John's way of thinking.it is rare to find a Christian who is tolerant and will actually accept you and look past religion ,sexual orientation,etc.in my life i have only met about two Christians who are like this.I wonder...why do so many display such unseemly behavior?they judge others when it is not even their right to do this.all are equal.no one is above another.we humans simply don't learn...we seem to have forgotten that the heart is far more important than gender,looks,etc.therefore I agree wholeheartedly with revbarbarajadams.kindness,acceptance,and tolerance is needed.never judge another fo being different.for wanting to be different.because this may well be their way of staying true to who they are.do not try to stop them from finding their happiness.
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Marty Fowler
I must point out that your post is very judgmental RavenWolfMuse. Matthew 7:1-5; why do you look at the speck of saw dust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
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Minister Mika
Marty.I know very well that my view is still clouded.however.I merely point out what I have seen.I do not judge.tell me.what part of my post is judgemental?I see my plank as well as th dust in another's eyes.I am not Christian and therefore do not go by what Christians think an do.I state it like is see it.and this is how I see it: Why make a fuss over something as trivial as gender switching wen there are far more important things to worry about such as war poverty,corruption.I truly dislike those who are so shallow as to make this kind of thing priority over what truly matters.hypocrites....I used to be one of you.tell me...what happened to unconditional love?you scorn and persecute those who would mate their own sex.an why?because you were told to.let them be happy.if your God is truly the loving God he is claimed to be he will not care about sexual orientation.he will love and accept you for who you are.quoting the Bible like it is complete truth.while it may be.that book has been rewritten several times over.important messages were removed and kept secret each time it was rewritten.I honestly could care less about God and his book.I care more about equality,peace,and complete acceptance.if you don't wish to be judged then do not give others reason to try it.this world...it will be destroyed because of those who are too shallow and prideful to see that what they are doing is wrong.look past your mental walls.only then will you see the truth of what is happening.
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Marty Fowler
Raven, asking the question "what part of my post is judgmental" is an easy question to answer. "Unseemly behavior" (judgmental), "not ALL Christians are bad" (judgmental), " I have only met about two Christians who were tolerant" (judgmental). Maybe your statement "I truly dislike those who are so shallow as to make this kind of thing priority over what truly matters" is not only judgmental, but rather silly, don't you think, since this post is asking this one question and this one question only? Priority? Maybe the post should have required all of us to list our priorities? Maybe you don't have any idea whats in the hearts of the Christians you meet? Maybe you have only met two Christians. Raven, it is this Christians duty to bring people back from their transgressions, if only by voicing my opinion on what sin is or is not. Would you not agree, we all have the right to "voice our opinions" as do you? I am a flawed follower of the Christian religion, but God wants us to love even souls who wish to forsake or even murder us, not agree with them, but love them. There is a difference.
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Minister Mika
I see.so in your eyes the truth is judgemental.Marty if I were being judgemental I would point out every flaw I see.no matter whose flaw it is.I have not done so.however I am quite tempted to point out yours.but if I did that you would not learn.as I said I state things the way I see them.if it seems judgemental to you so be it.everyone is entitled to think what they wish.I spoke only the truth.if you are unable to accept it then that is your problem and not mine.yes everyone is entitled to their opinion.however to make a fuss over gender is in fact unseemly.I spoke the truth when I said not all Christians are bad.and quite the contrary.I have met hundreds off Christians.I was after all born as a Christian and attended church regularly until I decided it was not for me.I know very well these things.and while it may well be your "Duty" that is irrelevant.you cannot simply ask a person to change who and what they are.you jeopardize people's happiness and that is wrong.I shall explain the priority topic now. Happiness,peace,and unconditional love.those are the important things.not gender,looks,and religion.it is a terrible thing to forget this.the same way it is a terrible thing to deny a person happiness.by trying to "fix" them by attempting to mold them into something they are not you destroy them.stop being narrow minded and at least attempt to understand those who are different.you may well be surprised by what you find.
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Marty Fowler
Raven, you have only met "about" two Christians that were tolerant? What is an "about christian"? You only believe your mouth spews the truth, but you are entitled to be completely wrong. A Christian who falls from the graces of God by his or her own choice is sad. Your view is still clouded. I'll pray for you. Your being "quite tempted" to point out my flaws is the devil at work, maybe you missed the statement I wrote which was as follows, "I am a flawed follower of the Christian religion". try and keep up my friend. I judge, I sin, I may be wrong. Now you can admit it and move on to attempt to fool other people, because this "flawed Christian" has read enough garbage from you.
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John Maher
REVBARBARAJADAMS, POINT, U support Trump,WHY ??? do U N O T READ the NEWS ??? DO U N O T LISTEN to the NEWs, TOO MUCH BIBLE NOT ENOUGH CURRENT EVENTS, YOUR COUNTRY is YOURS and YOU MUST WORK HARD to KEEP it GREAT as it is or BETTER, NOT GREAT AGAIN, that is tRUMP B S, tRUMP is RUINING the CONSTITUTIONALIZED US of A, if U TRULY BELIEVE the WORDS in the BIBLE, GOD will PUNISH the SINNERS for their SINS NOT MORTAL MAN, HE WHO takes the BIBLE in HAND and PRETENDS to PUNISH in the NAME of GOD is the TRUE SINNER and SPEWER of EVIL.......... DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Marty Fowler
I posted an answer earlier Raven, but the post Gods are too judgmental to allow it, so sad. I must move on to help other poor souls................ take care my friend.
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John Maher
MARTY fowler BIRD, DID you use FOWL LANGUAGE in your REPLY NAUGHTY tRUMPY,try AGAIN I am CURIOUS to MEASURE your CAPABILITY @ NOTHING as USUAL, DUMP the IGNORAMOUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Marty Fowler
They finally added it John, the 4:30 am post was not sent at 4:30 am, trust me. Hilldabeast for jail......
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John Maher
SORRY BIRDMAN FOWLER BUTT I am NOT FAMILIAR with YOUR HILDABEAST for JAIL COMMENT NOR DO I TRUST U or ANYONE F Y I, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Minister Mika
It's fine Marty.take care.we may disagree on certain things but I have no ill feelings toward you.?
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John Maher
RAVENWOLFMUSE,ANOTHER VILLAGE IDIOT, TO WHOM EXACTLY are U RESPONDING, S M I L E Y * STAY on COURSE if you POSSIBLY can, ...DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A,..... JESUS H. CHRIST !!!
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John Maher
MARTY BIRDMAN run a FOWLER, MY MOUTH only SPEWS what I BELIEVE and that MAY not ALWAYS BE TRUTH BUT I do HAVE the CAPACITY to SEEK TRUTH and NOT LISTEN to an ALUMINIUM SIDING SALESMAN like tRUMP WHO EATS the FLESH of ANYONE and EVERYONE,SCREWS HIS DAUGHTER and PROBABLY did HIS MOTHER, GOOD NOTHING with YOUR* PRESIDENT, BIRDY *....DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A,...... BYE, BYE BIRDY !!!
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Minister Mika
John I specified who I responded to.if your misplaced anger has prevented you from seeing this then you may want to reread the message.I sent a response to Marty.as well as to you.also I don't live in a village.Iive in a town.so technically speaking I would be a town idiot not a village idiot.you should work on your grammar,spelling,and punctuation.from the way you are writing people will begin to think you have not had proper education.another thing John Maher.anger and bitterness will get you nowhere.and you my friend are filled with both.it is poisoning your mind.be careful lest it poison your very soul.
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june Rangel
I read all these comments and stopped here to reply. POTUS Trump is doing what needs to be done after all these years of corruption in government.If you know anything about our Country beside loving it as a man who loves his lusts in life you would understand this President.He is not a coward in my eyes or God's eyes he has been placed in his position by God's plan.For a President to step out and claim he is a God fearing man sits well with me instead of the muslim ex-pres we had which has been proven by his own words.You see yourself as a Christian man who loves his Country I see in your words your hate for your brother in Christ and your ignorance to my Country.God Bless America!
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John Maher
to june rangel, POT- US WHERE HAS YOUR MIND BEEN ALL this TIME, NOT only is tRUMP a COWARD HE is a PERVERT, a CON MAN, a PIMP, a BIGOT, a P O S that has COMMITED the SEVEN DEADLY SINS, GET YOUR HEAD OUT of the BIBLE BABBLE,get a LIFE, STOP, LOOK and LISTEN, VOTE, tRUMP the RINGMASTER making the VILLAGE IDIOTS DANCE,LISTEN to the B S and DANCE, I GUESS YOU FIND VLADIMIR PUTO PUTIN a GOD LOVING MAN....DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A ..... SMARTY BIRD FOWLER do YOU EVER READ YOUR COMMENTS, PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH, BIRDBRAIN !!!
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Bud
John, I wish your typing was great :)
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Bud
Marty you can never get through to John unless of course you are the Jackass Whisperer :)
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Bud
Somebody PLEASE help John learn to use his keyboard :)
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Minister Mika
Bud is that even possible?his typing fashion is horrible.Are you sure he can learn to use the keyboard properly?I'm inclined to be on doubt.
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John Maher
AIN'T IGNORANCE GRANDE, YOU TWO F..KT...S got the MESSAGE, BUDMUSEY'S MORE VILLAGE of tRUMP IDIOTS, HURRY UP and BOW to YOUR MASTER BECAUSE HE's LEAVING TOWN, REAL SOON, in CUFFS the STEEL ONES, U KNOW as in LOCK HIM UP !!! FOLLOW the YELLOW HAIRED NAZI, LITTLE VILLAGE IDIOTs, DUMP tRUMP and HIS CLUB, KKK, NEO- NAZI, WHITE SUPREMISTs, ALT-RIGHT, the RNC / GOP
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Minister Mika
I have no master little one.Never did and never will.I bow to no human,god,or creature.Rant all you like,it will solve nothing.as for your comment "Isn't ignorance grand/."well i believe you can answer this perfectly.As you live in ignorance all day every day.Poor little boy....I do so pity you.How low you have fallen.Misery loves company,did you know?Since you are miserable you try to make others feel the same.Unfortunately for you,Little Boy,there are some who are immune to your foolishness.Stop throwing your little tantrum child.For it is both useless and unbecoming of you.And to think you call yourself a man.You are little more than a spoiled child who throws a fit if he does not get what he wants.Act your age or be treated like the child you make yourself out to be.
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Bud
Read the Bible John boy.
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John Maher
HEY BUTTIE BOY BUD, I DID READ the BIBLE, OLD and NEW TESTAMENT and UNDERSTAND SAME BUTT it SEEMS that U and UR tRUMPIES ONLY QUOTE, NO COMPREHENSION, JUST BIBLE BABBLE, ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIER, DUMP the NAZI CRIMINAL COWARD TRAITOR tRUMP and ALL his tRUMPIE VILLAGE IDIOTS
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Felix
Personally, John, I think you're full of awesome goodness!
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John Maher
THANK you FELIX, I DO TRY MY PATIENCE WITH THESE HATE MONGERS THAT FOLLOW the NAZI tRUMP, I WILL NOT SAY HE is the DEVIL, tRUMP AIN'T that SMART as is COMING to LIGHT, NAZI tRUMP WILL SELF HANG, SURELY SCUM LIKE HE USUALLY END UP @ the END of the NOOSE, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARD CRIMINAL NAZI tRUMP, GOD is GREAT, so is the US of A
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True Bible Believer
While I do support anyone’s right to do as they please within their own domicile, that right ends where my children can be forcibly exposed to that sin. I reserve the God-given and commanded right to refuse to condone or celebrate that sin, especially within a house of worship.
Interestingly, I met one of those "nicest people you will ever meet" around age 9 or so! As someone who endured sexual abuse (homosexual rape) from age 9-13 by a man 20 years my senior, one would have to be deaf, dumb, blind and insane to question my New Testament based opinion on this SIN!
Those who have known it definitely FEEL it, as I have suffered the physical damage associated with it for over 50 years!
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Felix
True Bible Believer, I'm so profoundly sorry that you went through such a life altering and horrible experience!
I'm also a survivor of seven years of childhood sexual abuse. I can't escape the impact that it had on my life even now in my fifties.
But in no way am I going to hold responsible every male for the actions of my abuser.
There are good people and bad of all sexual persuasions and faiths. I'll leave it to the Creator to deal with them so that I can keep my heart and mind open.
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Keith
Doesn't the Christian bible say "thou shall not judge"?
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John Maher
IS THAT a QUESTION or a JUDGEMENT KEITH ???
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Marty Fowler
Just a fact John, kinda like TRUMP RULES!!!!!
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John Maher
WRONG MARTY bird FOWLER, THATS tRUMP DROOLS,MIND YOUR SPELLING BIRDY BRAIN, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Marty Fowler
Still crying because the " shoe in " Hillary lost? Try running a better campaign instead of name calling, the whole world is watching the left melt down. Its called being a sore loser..............
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John Maher
I NEVER WANTED CROOKED HILARY to WIN FOWL MARTY, BERNIE SANDERS is MY CHOICE BUTT YOU GOT STUCK with DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A... HEY BIRDMAN WATCH YOUR FACE in the MIRROR when tRUMP is IMPEACHED and JAILED,LOCK HIM UP !!!
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Minister Mika
John you realize that when Bernie Sanders backed out he supported Trump right?so in a way by supporting Bernie you also indirectly supported Trump.I personally think both Hillary and Trump are bad. However....Trump has surprised me.he may well do this country good.make no mistake...I still dislike him.but I'm willing to set aside that dislike and support him if he does what he promised and continue to better this country.
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drfayesnyder
I am astounded by this dialogue. To be clear, Donald Trump has conspired with the head of Russia to sabotage our elections, i.e. democracy. He did not win the popular vote, and we will never know if he won the electoral college votes due to enabling his opponent to be maligned and sabotaged by a foreign power. He appears to be a puppet of Russia. He has no apparent moral compass. He admires dictators. He lies to the public on a continual basis. He throws tantrums and calls people cruel names. He deflects on all the hard questions. He is arrogant and rude toward other leaders and embarrasses us before the world, which looks upon us with incredulity. We seem so ignorant as a people. (You seem so ignorant to me. Do you watch the news or do you only watch censored, Trump news?) He has accosted women. He is a closet dictator who requires those he chooses to be close admire him and praise him publically and ritualistically in meetings. He requires loyalty, right or wrong. He has regular tantrums where he turns on those who have backed him and fires them. He is willing to use the government any way he can to lie, cheat and steal all in the name of making America great again. He is part of the Get Rich Any Way We Can Club, including stealing $700 billion from Medicare to reduce taxes for the wealthy. He pretends to be good for American labor, but he lies to them, ships his own manufacturing out of the country, and he has a history of not paying people for their work. He is willing that 1/6 of Americans go again without health insurance. Making AGA is nothing more than an attempt to return to the good old days when the rich had more privilege and the poor had less opportunity. He fires more people than he hires. He fires people for insufficient loyalty and failure to cover for him. He does not self-reflect. He is ignorant about the law and doesn’t want advice. He has no close council to whom he listens. He lies to the press. He has involved his family in his conspiracy and had them lie about it to for his sake. He has probably provoked more ISIS behavior by his war on Muslim immigrants. He has a serious personality disorder. He is close to impeachment. How can it be that a so-called religious leader can be so terribly ignorant and blind, or are you a false religious leader? What a scary thought that is.
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John Maher
I would not and did not VOTE for tRUMP or HILARY and WHERE PRAY TELL is this FAKE NEWs coming from ABOUT BERNIE suppoting tRUMP, WHERE do YOU PEOPLE get UR INFO.??? tRUMP MAYBE, NEVER HAPPENED !!! and SPEAKING of NEWS, TURN on the REAL NEWS, YOUR PRESIDENT is a TRAITOR !!! along with the REST of HIS FAMILY and CONSTITUENTS,REAL NEWS, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A... MARTY FOWLER U have already GIVEN the TRAITOR tRUMP the CHANCE to RUIN the USA and BEHOLD tRUMP is DOING IT, THATS REAL NEWS
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John Maher
drfayesnyder, WHO are you TALKING TO, if ME you are 100 % WRONG, I am TOTALLY CONTRA tRUMP, I have READ YOUR COMMENT and AGREE 100%, the VILLAGE IDIOTS on this BLOG that AGREE with HIM, tRUMP, DO NOT BELONG on a MINISTRY BLOG, THEY ALONG with HIM, tRUMP BELONGs in HELL, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT,so is the US of A
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drfayesnyder
Not to you, except that I don't think Hillary was so bad, but I continue to love Bernie. Trump is a moral and ethical disaster with a major personality disorder. What's worse is that so many Americans are so blind to bad character, and I am appalled that any minister from the ULC would express anything but loving acceptance for transgender worshippers. The condescending logic of some "ministers" in sheep's clothing is so archaic, out of date, biased, bigoted, hateful, arrogant, harmful, and ignorant. They are supporting a man who is dark and dishonest, hell bent on hurting the poor to enrich his friends, in the name of what's good for America. OMG! The bigotry and myopia on these pages astounds me and then there are others who are enlightened, like yourself, who make me proud to belong to the ULC. I wish we had a caveat that ULC ministers can assess behaviors designed to hurt or exploit others but may not embrace beliefs that are harmful to others. The bigotry on these pages is harmful and hurtful and to come from someone wearing the cloth, is awful to me.
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Marty Fowler
drfayesnyder, If Trump is as guilty as you say, wouldn't there be some sort of proof? Talking about watching the wrong news!!! He is still President, meaning the dems have NOTHING on him except hate and lies! The left is in a meltdown because their "shoe in " hildabeast lost to a better person, she is the one that should be in jail, PERIOD!!! You are a clueless, democrat butt licking fool. If I were you I would go to the doctor to have your head removed from your hillary hole. True dat!!!
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John Maher
HEY SMARTY GROWLER [marty fowler] YOUR HEAD is so FULL of tRUMP DROPPINS YOU NEED a SHOEHORN or BETTER yet a KICK in your tRUMP to get it OUT, the VILLAGE IDIOT marty fowler AGAIN SHOUTS HIS FAKE tRUMP NEWs, SHADDUP sMARTY BIRD GROWLER, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, SMARTY, tRUMP is still in office BECAUSE they are SCRAPING the TOILET BOWL for EVIDENCE before they STICK HIS ENORMOUS ORANGE ORANGUTAN HEAD in SAME, SHYTEHEAD SMARTY !!!
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Marty Fowler
Your right John Maher (Frog face) the demorats are scrapping the toilet bowl, because thats where they live. Again, they got nothing, squat, zip, nota. Just keep up your crying jag and maybe someday someone will give you a ba-ba to let you suckle on. HILDABEAST FOR PRISON!!!!!
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John Maher
SMARTY FOWLsmeLLER, READ the NEWSPAPER if YOUR ABLE BUTT maybe you HAVE NOT yet LEARNED to COMPREHEND GOING by YOUR FOWL COMMENTS HOW can ANYONE SUPPORT tRUMP when tRUMP is and ACTs like a STREET PUNK,SHUT the WATER when YOUR done BRUSHING YOUR TEETH and RINSING YOUR MOUTH in the BIDET, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Bud
When I read Faye's posts I completely understand now why The Apostle Paul told the women to "Keep silent in the churches :)
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Bud
The Bible says not to judge non-believers. As Christians we have to hold other Christians accountable. Read Matthew chapter 18 if you want more info.
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Mariah Maloy
If this is where the Church of England is Called to lead, then they need to follow that call. Each person has to meet his/her Call as he/she sees fit.
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revbarbarajadams
Amen
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Al
Although I am glad that the church is finally decided to allow transgender's into the circle, being the cynical person That I am I cannot help but wonder if the congregation is getting smaller and they need more money from people.
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Clayton Beardmore
"cynical" or "realist?"
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Bud
Well put Al :)
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Judi Sass
God does not make mistakes. He created us the way He intended us to live. Too much attentionn is and has been given to these confused people. A ceremony in support of this confused group of people is ludicrous and, in my opinion, against the Word. Instead, we should be holding prayer services for them. Praying for their understanding of the Word and helping them to realize that God put them in the body He intended them to live in. Gender is not, nor should be a choice but it is a given, by the All Mighty. With that said, I love all people and continue to pray that all people will learn to embrace and love who Our Our Father intended us to be. Our God is a God of non-confusion. Being confused about ones gender is against what He stands for. Amen!
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Ben
Gender is not binary.
Please study biology. Many individuals are, for instance, born into this world with ambiguous genitalia, or external genitalia that do not match their XX or XY chromosomal pattern. Others are born with XXY, XO, or other chromosomal patterns.
Many individuals who seek gender reassignment have either chromosomal abnormalities and/or brain structures that differ from their assumed gender.
Point being, gender is not binary. Once you realize that, you will understand that there is nothing 'sinful' about gender reassignment. There is always a good reason for the reassignment.
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drfayesnyder
This dialogue makes me proud to be a minister of the Universal Life Church. Most of you people sound more enlightened than traditionally trained clergy I have known. Sometimes I am sheepish to say I'm a minister of this church, but today I am proud. I see evidence that this license is substantial and self-selective. I also want to compliment whoever has taken over. The Church didn't fade when Rev. Hensley passed. His legacy lives on in the best of ways. I'm so impressed with what the ULC is becoming.
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Bud
Ben, I will gladly do as you suggested and study up on biology, if you will study up on the Bible :)
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John Maher
AH BUD as in LIGHT, LIGHT on BRAINS HEAVY on BRAINFARTs, the BIBLE is a GUIDE N O T UR MOTHERS BREASTS, WHATS to STUDY, if you want to STUDY up on SOMETHING try HISTORY and that WILL EXPLAIN YOUR BIBLE
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John Owens
Hilarious. And sad.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Judi Sass, being born inwardly female in a male body or inwardly male in a female body is no different than being born into any other external condition or circumstances, which a person doesn't really feel fits who they truly are, inside, and knows doesn't fit who they are. You might as well tell a person born into poverty or born under a repressive totalitarian regime or born into any other circumstances that they hate and want to be free from: "If God had intended you to have any decent money to live on and decent life or not have to live under tyranny or not to have to put up with any of these other problems, you would have been born into a rich or well to do family or in a democracy or without these problems" as say to a transgender person "If God had intended you to be born as some other sex than you are outwardly, you would already be that sex". No more than a physically or mentally handicapped person or poor person or person living under a tyrannical regime is "wrong" for fighting against that situation to come out from under it is a transgender person "wrong" for fighting against their outward physical situation in order to realize the truth within their hearts, minds, and souls about themselves and not letting society or outward conditions define them. God didn't make a mistake by putting males in female bodies or females in male bodies, sometimes, but only wanted to motivate these people to stand on their own two feet and not have to have everything done for them by God or anyone else!! People are who they are on the inside, not just what they appear to be to others. Jesus said: "Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment"---meaning, look into the heart of the person. We shouldn't be tied down to circumstances and outward appearances, but should make them subservient to our wills! As George Bernard Shaw wrote: "People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and if they can't find them, make them" (Mrs. Warren's Profession). That is what transgender people are doing and what Jesus himself did when he didn't stay stuck in his circumstance and profession of carpenter, but followed his inner truth and reality and became an itinerant preacher.
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Krystal Patterson
Everyone should be "allowed" in church and I do not understand there ever being a question about that. What I do not understand, is condoning sin. This church is now celebrating sin. I do not want to celebrate that I have sex outside of marriage in my church, I do not want divorce to be celebrated in the church that I attend. I go to church to be inspired to sin less. I will never be with out sin, but I do not want my church to celebrate any sin. This is the part that I do not understand in the "acceptance " of homosexuality. What they are celebrating is these folks ability to have sex with men and woman, dress up as the opposite sex and pretend they are something that they are not. If someone decided that they were a unicorn and dressed like one, people would know and understand that this person needed psychological help to get back in touch with reality. When a person cannot except what genitals they were born with, this is a mental problem. This means that this person cannot accept reality and they need help. But instead, society is seeing this as something to celebrate. Why are we celebrating someones sexual preferences??? Their denial that they were born a man or born a woman?? Really??
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Rev Marti
Krystal...I am so sorry that you limit your understanding to what you hear and read and don't go beyond to listen to other perspectives. Bible chapters that have identified "homosexual" are translations for a word that didn't exist in Biblical times. Read a true Biblical scholar on this matter and you will have another way to see this. It is unfortunate that you somehow see LGBT people as having "sexual preferences" versus who they are. It isn't just about sex. It is within their hearts and minds, not just in their loins. It isn't like someone sitting around thinking about sex with a same sex partner all the time. You are giving to much credit to how we look. Do you think God spends time thinking about our hair, makeup or even our genitals? Spend more time on Love than on sin. Love is what we were told to do in the New Testament as handed down to Moses from the voice of God. Don't live in fear...widen your mind to hear the truth.
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John Maher
DITTO MARTI SMITH, EDUCATION !!!
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drfayesnyder
I am a psychologist. This is not a whim. This is not a sin. I want to say, "Shame on you." As a minister I fear you are injuring people. These people cannot change what they feel about themselves. It is hardwired in and intolerance is harmful to them. There are two things people need in life. One is to love and be loved. The other is authenticity. Your attitude drives people to try to live inauthentic lives for your sake and in the name of God. You need to take a look at your mental health that you think it is your right and responsibility to judge others and expect them to pretzel themselves for your acceptance. Ugh.
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John Maher
RIGHT ON psychoSNYDER,GREAT COMMENT, JUST LOOK @ DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, W T F,???........................ GOD is GREAT so is the US OF A
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Bud
Well said Krystal! This church is accepting whats wrong because they need more members who in turn gives the church more money :) I believe thats its called "Selling Out" in some circles :)
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Rev. John D. Partin
Krystal Patterson, homosexuality and transgenderism aren't sins just because homophobes in the Bible or out in the world or anti-transgender people out in the world say that they are "sins" because neither the Bible writers nor any of these bigoted people out in the world actually speak for God, which would be the requirement for their calling anything a "sin" to actually be a sin!! The Bible writers who called homosexuality a "sin" merely put their words into "God's mouth" in order to "sanctify" and "justify" their views and impose them on other people much easier and made "God" say whatever they wanted Him to say! My Bible tells me: "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways" declares the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9). None of that is true, however, if God actually does end up agreeing with small and narrow-minded people about homosexuality and His ways are the same as their ways! If anyone's saying that anything is a "sin" is really all that it ever took for that thing to be a sin in reality, then interracial love, sex, and marriage would also be sins, since white and black and other racists call those things "sins" (and even find some "justification" for their beliefs in the Bible, too), as well as interfaith and interethnic and intergenerational love, sex, and marriage being "sins", according to some people! Where do we draw the line on this, once we have opened that door and Pandora's box of people's speaking and deciding for God what is "sin", instead of leaving that to God and not speaking and deciding for Him? The proof that God doesn't have any problem with gay people is that He keeps making more of them and so couldn't possibly be that offended by them or He wouldn't be doing so. God must be making some people gay because nobody would decide to be gay in this homophobic society and world, where gay people are disrespected, discriminated against, insulted, brutalized, and even killed! That would be like someone's choosing to be Jewish in Nazi Germany! God makes transgender people, too, because they wouldn't choose to be so for themselves, either, for the same reason, and are merely women's souls in men's bodies or men's souls in women's bodies and so perfectly natural and understandable. Reincarnation explains all of this very well and reasonably. People are what they are on the inside, not what they appear to be to other people on the outside. Jesus said "Judge not by the appearance, but judge a righteous judgment"---meaning, look into people's hearts. God didn't make a mistake by putting some women in men's bodies and men in women's bodies because he wanted these people to stand on their own two feet and not have to have everything done for them by Him or anyone else!! So, it is entirely right and correct that churches should celebrate transgender and gay people and be accepting of them because God celebrates and is accepting of them and that is these churches' following God's lead in this matter. Homosexuality and transgenderism are consentual, self-affirming, and non-imposing behaviors and identities, unlike pedophilia, rape, and bestiality, and so can't be categorized with those sicknesses, except by people who indiscriminately lump everything that they don't like together and condemn it all, which is irrational, bigoted, and unrealistic "thinking"!! Men, not God, might be creating pedophiles and these other sick people, just as they create serial killers, through our own treatment of and thinking toward some people. These truly sick behaviors are malum in se and de facto sins, meaning obviously wrong,, and not only malum prohibitum ("wrong" only because of a prejudice or dumb religious "blue" law against them, as are homosexuality and transgenderism!).
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rowdy64
We're all God's children as one person said. God is happy when people gather in HIs name, any people.
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Bud
We are NOT ALL God's children. We become children of God when we accept Jesus as our Lord & Savior. Until then we are children of the devil. Doesn't anyone read the Bible anymore????
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Jacqueline singleton
I'm not casting any stones
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Clayton Beardmore
"not casting" and "not having any stones to cast:" are not the same thing.
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Amber
One thing I find interesting is that for many years now, possibly generations, we hear over and over that it's what is inside that counts and it's how you treat others that counts. I cannot count the number of times I've heard that. Over and over, love one another, care for one another. Do write by each other. It is almost a mantra at this point. But how seriously is it being taken?
When someone turns out to be different for whatever reason, the tendency runs anywhere from verbal abuse to beat that difference out of them. It doesn't seem to matter that the difference doesn't have any bearing on anyone else's life. It doesn't hurt anyone or take anything away from anyone else. That person could be one of the most gentle, kind, loving, supportive person most ever meet but that doesn't seem to matter even with the spread of the idea of loving one another. Still they end up violated and victimized out of ignorance and self righteousness. There is absolutely nothing loving or caring in that... ever.
And when someone decides their outside should match their inside, people get all twisted in knots. Again, they are not hurting anyone, or taking anything from anyone. They get therapy both to see if it's really what they think they want, and to understand details of the process, the number of operations and the pains they are going to be dealing with. After all that, when they still decide to go through with it then I'd think it should be left to them to decide. Even more, I think showing that love, care and support would be far more prudent than arguing against it.
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Marty Fowler
We are ordered by God to love those who try and forsake or even murder us. It still, no matter what you "find interesting", does not make them "Right".
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John Maher
SMARTY FOWLsmellingER, WHAT is RIGHT ? WHAT is NORMAL ??? GOING by YOUR COMMENTS YOUR NEVER RIGHT and YOU SURE AIN'T N O R M A L BIRDMAN, ...DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A,.....AND JUST WHERE/ WHO do U get YOUR ORDERS from to LOVE ??? tRUMP!!! HYPOCRITE !!!
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Catie
As a transgender woman, and person of faith, I applaud the churches decision. Any step forward, for any reason, is positive. And, to all the ignorant people out there; I'll keep praying for you. Peace, love and light.
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Bud
Catie, now get out the old checkbook and write em a check :) That's the reason behind the churches decision to condone sin :)
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revbarbarajadams
From the darkness will always come light. God accepts all of us for who we are. If humans did the same, this world would be a lot kinder and loving.
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Bud
Not True :)
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Devin Lind
As a transgender person (and ordained ULC minister), I welcome this. It really should be a non-issue, but since the world (and, sadly, many religious organizations) is full of transphobes a statement like this is both important and necessary.
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Rev Joseph A Krendel
No I won't
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William
With regards to the mainstream religions belief and what the bible says about homosexuality how do we really no,lets face it the bible was rewritten once all ready eg the old to the new testament who really knows that god dose not accept it or that its not some way of his way of birth controle to keep the population down,anyway i talk to a lot of people who these days pretty much believe treat others with respect,or do to others as you would have done to you, generally just be a good person and if god is a loving god he would not care about anything else
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Peggie Johnson
God is God and He's the only one who Never changes.
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Rev Marti
Everyone is welcome with me. We keep learning the same lesson over and over again. It is not our job to judge. It is that simple and that hard. We are to love our neighbor as ourself. We don't have to like a choice, an image, a relationship, or any other reason we are separate from others by personal choices. There are several Biblical verses that have been misinterpreted and used as punishment for decades, where groups, individuals, religions and philosophies have been demonized. Imagine asking God to pick which child he should love over the other. Our job is to spread love far and wide...to pray that each person embraces a pure heart for their lives, and to send out the most positive thoughts and wishes for everyone on the planet. If there is no clearly stated directive in the Bible to marginalize and ostracize homosexual people as a message from God, it is morally indefensible for Christians to continue to do so. As ministers, bishops or spiritual guides we are to help each one follow the guidance of their God given path to relationship and to the Divine. However you identify your faith, symbols of love: empathy, acceptance, understanding and inclusion should be our mantra. There is such a sexual component to judge the life of someone who is LGBT, but little understanding of their emotional and spiritual motivations. You can't know the heart of each person. It is our responsibility to seek guidance in our ministry. Much of the opposition to homosexuality among Christians over the centuries can be traced to the letters of Paul, the apostle, who also had difficulties with women -- although I do believe that, in context, Paul's attitudes are more complex than many assume. It's important to remember, though, that he was raised an orthodox Jew, a Pharisee by training, and there was a strong prohibition against homosexual acts in many strains of Judaism, as in Leviticus 20:13. (CNN, social Op-Ed) It is impossible for us to separate the guidance whether from God or the religious tenets of the time. Men used concubines, there were commands to never eat pork or shellfish and to stone neighbors who fail to follow the strict guidelines of the day. Church doctrine is often created to keep us in check when we fail to listen to our own spiritual guidance. We were given the tools to hear, but many rely on Church Doctrine to keep themselves in check, and judge others who don't agree with their methods. Paul encouraged everyone to be celibate because he struggled with his own issues with women when trying to follow Jesus. It is clear to me that we best purify by loving others and being in a committed relationship as we are guided. Many know same-sex relationships are not their chosen path. That would make them unequally yoked. In my situation to lay with a man would be just as heinous.There are others who are given the ability to choose. And, others know early on that they have yet another relationship path to follow. If your path is Bible guidance, your responsibility since the Sermon on the Mount was to love our neighbor as ourself, which means to follow our internal guidance and love everyone. Few in the Jewish faith could follow the very rigid rules of Judaism. The new law in the New Testament placed responsibility upon hearts. Many think it is too hard to love everyone because some live in darkness. Love can represent as soft and also as tough. It is never represented with hate and malice. As a Lesbian who knew from the time she was a young girl that she was not intended to be enjoined in marriage with a man, God has a plan for some to take the road less travelled. We are the only ones who know in our hearts what that road is on a day-by-day basis. And, we have a law of the land that we are encouraged to follow, It is up to us to determine what is most appropriate in each decade. "So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, ... or want what is his, or do anything else the Ten Commandments say is wrong." There are many spiritual roads to the Divine.
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Ben
The Old Testament does not forbid lesbianism, only gay male sex. That is because, according to the most orthodox of Orthodox rabbis, the OT issue is not homosexuality but other cultural issues. For instance, it was assumed that if a man is enjoying gay sex, he will not father children; that was a serious problem once upon a time. There were other concerns as well.
I am a transgender male. Do you know what my very right-wing ultra-Orthodox rabbi told me? He was trying to encourage me to marry a woman, and said, "If you are a male, you may certainly marry a woman. If you are a female, well, it is not forbidden for two women to live together intimately. So, where is the problem? Get married already!"
The homophobia and transphobia we experience today is really not a Jewish legacy.
Source: I studied for the Orthodox rabbinate.
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Bud
Please refer to Romans 1:26-27.
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Peggie Johnson
QUESTION to As for if I would go to the church to witness a trangender transition No.
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True Bible Believer
I refused to participate and was asked to leave the church! My late father served that church as Rector for several decades, but I am embarrassed by their lack of fidelity to scripture, and their total lack of Christian charity.
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Bud
Maybe them asking you to leave was really a "Blessing" for you :) The "church" in fact is Jesus so if you are serving Him it just doesn't get any better! Don't be embarrassed for them be happy that God showed you their "True" spirit :)
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Bud
You go to church to Worship Almighty God :) Period
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John Maher
HEY BUD, BUTTIE PEOPLE GOES to CHURCH BELIEVING THEY can CLEANSE THEIR SINS [ SOULS ] by DONATING MONEY and the PASTOR ASSURES THEM a KEY to the VILLAGE for tRUMP NAZI IDIOTS and the REST of the GARBAGE DUCKING IDIOTS BELIEVE MONEY will get THEM ALL THRU the VILLAGE GATE, I HOPE YOU LIVE a LONG and IGNORANT LIFE [BUTTIE ] BUD.
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John Maher
HEY BUTTIE BUD, the CHURCH is NOT JESUS, JESUS is JESUS, JESUS CHRIST, YOU IGNORAMUS LOST VILLAGE tRUMPIE IDIOT, DUMP the NAZI CRIMINAL COWARD TRAITOR and HIS VILLAGE of NAZI IDIOTS
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Garrett H
Love everyone. Let our Creator judge. In the meantime, we need to love one another.
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Minister Jaibe Singh
GOD is loving and HE created all of us to HIS own likeness, love one another and stay blessed.
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Christina Marquardo
Dearest follow church goers. Jesus told people. They shall not cast out those who are different
He (Jesus) also said let he who is free from sin gas the first stone So why do all of God's Children cast out the ones who choose to be gay with silence when we are created equal in Jesus ..
Our Lord and Savior
May you guide Our follow man into forgiveness for the do not know what they have done No child shall be silenced.AmenMINISTER CHRITINA M MARQUARDO
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Bernice
Any person who seeks God should be welcomed, IF the TG wants to be recognized, and "re-welcomed," then not only would I attend, I would ask to participate. It is not the place of laypersons to question why, how, if, or when, ANYONE participates. Or chooses to not participate. The ceremony should be a celebration of a new life, much as a Baptism, a renewal of faith, it should not be an "outting," nor should it be forced upon anyone. Congregant, or Congregation.
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Whit Patrick
I was taught a wonderful lesson many years ago by our pastor. He and I were waiting in the Narthex to enter the Sanctuary at 11:00 AM.
About 2 minutes before we wer going in 8 young women (~20-35 yo) bursts through the front doors... yes, "burst" is not being dramatic; they pushed the double doors open forcefully enough to disturb the silence of the Santuary...
Two of them moved directly to the Pastor and challenged him, "Do you have a pew for 8 lesbians?!?"
He smiled at them, offered his hand to the speaker and introduced himself, then said, "No."
"Our church has pews and overflow chairs for anyone who comes to worship.
"We offer communion to anyone who has been baptized.
"We will give God's Blessing to anyone who asks for it.
"Every attendee at this service welcomes every new comer to join in worship and, because we are a liturgical church, will help newcomers in following the service in our hymnal.
"But, no, we don't have 8 seats; or even one seat, that we will assign to a person or group except for planned celebrations... weddings, funerals, baptisms... you understand. So, please join us in Christian worship. Find a place to sit. Join us after the service for coffee and snacks. Introduce yourselves to other worshippers. "
He nodded at me and we entered the sanctuary. 2 of the guests elected to stay. 6 cursed our bigotry and stormed out.
Church service is not the place introduce our differences. It is a place where we are blessed to honor God in our worship.
Blessings Whit
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Clayton Beardmore
Finally, somebody with sense.
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Bill Fox
If a religion does not follow what it professes to believe, in this case, the Bible, then there is an underlying conflict which needs to be addressed before I would be interested in participating. I like the stuff coming out of the salt shaker to taste like salt, and the stuff in the sugar bowl to be sweet. (NIV) Matthew 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
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Patrick
We are god's kids and who are we to exclude anyone or deny the right for anyone to love anyone else regardless of who they or who they have transformed themselves to be. I'm blown away that the Church of England would favor this transformation and can only comment that it's about time they go of the behind the times philosophies.
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Amanda
This is so beautiful. I know it might be for recruitment but it does mark a change in society and offers to keep people safe through inclusion. Anyone who is against this has no empathy and shouldn't be a spiritual leader, period. This is a wonderful thing.
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Geneva Blake-Jaco
It's Truly Beautiful! Nobody has the Right to Judge anyone else's testimony! We're God's People Not man's! 100% Agree!
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NORMAN SAMWEL KIYONDI ONDITI
I believe change is a must for humanity life and our societies are not static but they change from time to time philosophies wants changes in seasons for spiritual prosperity and physical growth in abudant life.
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William C Millhouse
I sort of like the idea. This is something that we Pagans might want to adopt
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Douglas Stone
As a senior gay man with strong allegiance to the Anglican/Church of England religion .... it is nigh on time that this process is happening. The church is not losing members because of the "gay, transgender" issue but rather due to the younger adults not attending church, participating in the various organizations associated with the church, or bringing their children up in a religious atmosphere. Why ... because over the years our civilization has changed rapidly. Young families now a days have to work two or more jobs to survive and support their family and the young are now able to participate in sports and young groups that replaces the sunday school, scouts and youth groups of years ago.
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John Maher
AND WHAT PRAY TELL do YOU HEAR from the CHURCHs, GOD BLESS OUR LEADERS WHOM HAVE LED UNTO this BOTTOMLESS HOLE that SURELY tRUMP will GO STRAIGHT THRU to CHINA, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Diana
Jesus NEVER turned ANYONE away! He made us all. No mistakes. ALL are welcome in His Church.
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Cynthia
I embrace all humanity and have love for all LIFE regardless. My reason for being a Minister is simple.I am here to SERVE and help to live by humanitarian standards and to teach love and Unity for ALL .Humble and ready to share a message of Hope by example. We are never to Judge. We are to uplift and work as a team to heal Earth and its Inhabitants.
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Lesley lux
We are God's children no matter what kind of gender you may feel is right.i have no problem if someone wants or feels their the wrong sex.and be what they feel if they wish to come to church they should be allowed without discrimination..
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Messenger of the way
Being part of sharing the messages from scriptures means alot ! One must do aswell. We we can't change the scriptural laws. Love is important....not the physical contact.....That must be corrected fast it is out of control. ( Adam & Waw .)
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Amy
it's really simple it's about our souls, hearts and minds not our bodies. It's who are not what we are. Judge not lest ye be judge. Second Love thy neighbor as Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater.
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Geneva Blake-Jaco
True!!
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Preacher Man
If you wish to believe that, so be it. I'll just follow the written instructions
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Amy
Have you sacrificed any goats lately? Leviticus 23:19
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John Maher
OR a SON, MAYBE ???
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Marlyn Goranson
I believe it's a sin!You can't Inherit the kingdom of God if practice homosexuality
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Ben
The Old Testament prohibits male homosexuality, not female homosexuality. The Orthodox rabbis explain that this is because homosexuality, per se, is not the problem. Other concerns exist - like a homosexual male failing to procreate - but homosexuality itself is not an issue.
ln the OT, male homosexuality is no more a sin than eating pork, shellfish, wearing a garment of a linen/wool mix, or transgressing the Sabbath.
Christians have no problem violating the latter prohibitions. Why cherry-pick homosexuality?
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Clayton Beardmore
"cherry-pick" - interesting choice of words.
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True Bible Believer
True Christians are bound ONLY by the New Covenant, the old being done away and nailed to the Cross at Calvary. AMEN
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John Maher
HEY BIBLE BABBLER, GET a NAME WILL YA, YOU SOUND LIKE AN ABORT, I DO NOT THINK that JESUS would CARE for the WAY YOU USE HIS NAME but then JESUS is JESUS and UN like ME HE FORGIVES, TRUE BELIEVER BIBLE BABBLER, WHERE and JUST WHAT did U do in IRAQ !!!, .... DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, MORE FAKE NEWS, T B B B, ??? .
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june Rangel
you need to ask God to control your tongue,you are making a fool of yourself criticizing your brothers of Christ..satan get behind this judas..
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John Maher
june rangel, I say WHAT I think and if YOU BELIEVE GOD is CONTROLLING ANYONE or ANYTHING VILLAGE IDIOT, WAIT and SEE WHERE GOD SENDS YOUR TRAITOR POT-US ARSE KISSER of VLADIMIR PUTO PUTIN, POT-US tRUMPUS, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is great so is the US of A..STOP TRYING to SPEW FAKE NEWS, I HAVE NOT SEEN / READ too MANY BROTHERS of JESUS CHRIST on this BLOG, STOP HIDING BEHIND GOD and the BIBLE COWARDS ALL, JESUS LOVES ME YES I KNOW !!!
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Preacher Man
Amen!
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Whit Patrick
Do you stand at the entrance of your church with a checklist that people must complete before entering to worship?
"Have you had the desire to lay with another woman in the last 6 months? Yes! Get out!"
"Do you subscribe to interpretations of the Bible other than KJV? Yes? Get out!"
I simply introduce myself and say, "Welcome to our church. You are welcome to worship here. "
Now, if an individual or group attempt to introduce an agenda outside of our worship; If they start dictating tolerance (perhaps the most unkind practice), I will personally and publicly throw them out other asses!
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Clayton Beardmore
Of, to put it easier to understand - "You vill do vat I say or I vill take you out and I vill shoot you!"
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True Bible Believer
I stand on the un-erring word of Jesus and his anointed disciples, and against any and all perversions or abominations! AMEN
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John Maher
REALLY, THEN JUST WHAT is YOUR NAME in FULL, COWARD !!!
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Geneva Blake-Jaco
My First Concern with Anyone is the Acceptance of the Lord Jesus Christ! We All Face the Undiluted Wrath of God without Jesus Mighty Name and it's Only through Him that we are allowed into Heaven! It's Funny how even the a worst of the a worst can Change their Heart by allowing the Holy Spirit to Lead and Guide them and follow His(Jesus) Will and that's Not My call but the Father Himself will Lead and Guide people! That's their Testimony Not for You to Slam a Hypocritical Gavel on from Learned Stumbling Blocks that are Not Biblical!
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Ace Lightning
I'm a Witch, and I have a lot of misgivings about going into any Christian church. But I'd put aside my misgivings and joyfully share an Anglican "transition" ceremony - I'd even bake and decorate a cake for the occasion! My personal belief is that what's between a person's legs is far less important than what's between their ears, and how they choose to conduct their sexual and romantic life is nobody's business but theirs and their partners'. Love is really all that matters.
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Geneva Blake-Jaco
I completely understand and agree! I am a Christian Witch! I didn't care what anyone chooses in Life it's the Acceptance of Christ Jesus! Everyone has a Testimony and Everyone should be able to Share it OPENLY ! Blessings,Comfort of the Soul and Peace!
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Minister Mika
A fellow Witch?I did not know there were others on here.Merry meet,Ace.
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Frank X Marcial
Our Lord ask the disciples to Teach all Nations the holy word, our lord I believe included all his children to his Church. IT is NOT FOR ME TO JUDGE ANY ONE GOD WILL JUDGE NOT US. LET ALL INTO OUR HOUSES OF WORSHIP LET THEIR HEARTS & SPIRITS REFLECT THEIR TRUE FEELING TO THE LORD
19/JUL/2017 REV. F.X.M
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DEE WILLIAM
Not to permit them for A Church Office, Position or any controlling situations! However!!!!!! If they want to Attend Church Services, I am ALL-N-FOR THAT! We all NEED A BETTER INSIGHT AN UNDERSTANDING OF GOD'S WILL AN DESIRES! I ONLY BELIEVE IN THAT!!!!!! IF GOD CHANGES HIS WILL ON THIS MATTER!!!!! I WILL BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO DO THE SAME!!!!!!
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drfayesnyder
How do you know or not know if God changed His will? It seems to me that humans are interpreting His will and that changes as we humans become more enlightened. He used to promote slavery and abuse of children (in the Bible). I am sure you believe He changed his mind about that. How do you know he has not ever believed in slavery or judging others for their sexual orientation or sexual identity. Don't you see the social influences of the times dictating interpretations. Wouldn't you believe He believes it's more important to be authentic and honest than trying to be who you're not to please others? I find this whole judgmental dialogue (pretending to be open minded) offensive and oppressive for people who represent God's will. I would always hope and pray that I make decisions that come down on the right side of history, where there is compassion and tolerance.
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Velva Adkins
i most deffenitly think marriage as well as anything else aval. to "straight" people should be allowed fer everyone reguardless of race, age(as long as there consenting adults),gender, sexuality, beliefs, and walks of life.... we have no right to judge anyone fer any reason
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MBENG TAKU FIDELIS
I am saying here bluntly that all churches which will fully and deliberately accept homosexuals and lesbians in their congregations like what the church in England and their kinds all over world are doing shouldn't be blamed because they don't understand the scripture. So they need some one who will help them to open their understanding of the scripture so that they might comprehend the scriptures, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ to His disciples (Luke 24:45) if His disciples could forget all what He taught them within a period of about three and a half years day by day, then these ones too must have forgotten, they need help. In the book of ( Acts 18) it is written that Apollos was an eloquent and mighty preacher but he lacked the understanding of some vital portion of the scriptures which Aquila and priscilla took aside and open his understanding of the scriptures. It is written the book of Proverbs that there is way that seems right to a man but its end is death. We are in the last days experiences which Apostle Paul was telling his son Timothy. One thing we must understand is that not everybody on earth is willing to go to heaven, the bible says that though they knew God but they did not worship Him as God. Another thing which should know is that the church is not heaven as Jacob told us in Genesis 28 it is the gate of Heaven and Jesus Christ says that His house should be called the house of prayer. What we should know again is that if there was no heaven as some people and churches believe, then there would be no need for Christianity and if there is heaven and some Christians decide to go to hell willfully , then, it terrible. Apostle Paul told the Corinthian church without mixing words that all homosexuals and lesbians and unrighteous person hiding in church and Synagogues shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. If people says that they are Christians and they are not interested in going to heaven as it is the hope and destiny of every Christian why then are they coming church?
My last word is that God can not be mocked. Let all hohomosexuals and lesbians all. Bishops, priests, pastors, Synod etc. who are encouraging this wicked acts of homosexuality and the likes in the houses of God almighty should REPRNT and start preaching the true gospel to them. Homosexuals and lesbians are looking for God show them the true way. God didn't create any man a homosexual or woman a lesbian in the beginning tell this good news or you will cry more cry in the end the laughter you laughing now. Jesus says I am coming quickly and my reward is with me to give to everyone according to his work. Cameroon, Africa
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Denise
I would attend I feel as if God loves us,all as the children song goes red and and yellow black and white Jesus loves the children of the world he loves us all
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Mary Shaw
Come one, come all. As for special ceremony, why? As far as I know, nobody else gets one for being themselves, whatever that is. God created, god loves.
There has been talk of us supposedly being naturally unhappy because that is what god intended.....what!!!! Are we not his children? why would he then not want us to be happy? That to me makes no sense.
I too am different, no, I am not gay or transgender but a lot of people are uncomfortable in my company, these people 'feel' that I am not like them or am judging them, so therefore, instantly dislike me. Those that know me or take the time to get to know me, see me as a happy, non judgemental person, who is very interesting to talk with and very funny. The difference is that I have lived a very full life, been through a lot throughout this life, experienced things others haven't, have a think outside the box and see the bigger picture, kind of person, what I can do not many choose to embrace but we are all capable of. This kind of thinking unnerves people and some delve back to the dark ages in their intolerance of me, I know what it is like to be hated. What I have done though is take these experiences and used them in a positive way, I chose not to be bitter or condemn others, I am sympathetic and empathic. I am one of the lucky ones that was born this way and continued. I chose to be happy, no matter what the cirumstances I found or find myself in.
Why have I told you this? Some on here could do with the same teaching. Be kind and understanding of one another - the pain you are causing your fellow brothers and sisters is not good for them or yourself.
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John Maher
ANGEL, UR an ANGEL, DIFFERENT HOW ??? DO YOU HAVE WINGS ??? ANGEL what PEOPLE do not REALIZE is that in REALITY WE HUMAN BEANS are ALL DIFFERENT in SOMEWAY or ANOTHER, GET a LIFE PEOPLE and LEARN to LIVE with it CAUSE it AIN'T GOIN AWAY like F F DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP IMPLIES in HIS LIES, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Melody Wingo
The word of God is clear read and adhere.
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John Maher
HEY WINGO WHICH MELODY do YOU HEAR GOD SINGING and ADHERE to ??? BECUASE my DEAR GOD, SURELY NEVER WROTE ANYTHING, UNLESS UNDER an ALIAS, ENLIGHTEN MOI....... DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, god is GREAT so is the US of A
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Marty Fowler
John, after Satan controls your tongue and political ideals, does he slap you on the back and say "spit"?
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John Maher
MARTY FOWLER, ARE U SOME KIND of BIRD or JUST a BIRD BRAIN ??? POLITICAL IDEAS are for ARSEHOLES like YOU, I FOUGHT for my COUNTRY and will CONTINUE to do so, tRUMPs TONGUE is CONTROLED by VLADIMIR PUTO and when PUTO slaps tRUMP on the BACK tRUMP spits out LIES and VILLAGE IDIOTS like YOU BELIEVE tRUMP,POOR SOULS !!! PEOPLE like you LIVE in EGG SHELLS KNOW NOTHING of the WORLD JUST LISTEN to tRUMP SALIVARING at WHAT HE OFFERS BUTT HE OFFERS NIL, IGNORANT BASTARDS !!! ............. DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Ben
I am very troubled to read all of the hateful messages on this page. I always considered the Universal Life Church people to be forward-thinking and kind-hearted, but now I see there are many here who are full of hate and spite.
For those of you who are so very sure your hateful anti-LGBT messages are the 'truth', remember the two things Jesus commanded: To love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
Love your neighbor. LOVE.
Hateful words have no place in a heart of love.
If these teachings are difficult for you to swallow, then consider this one: Remove the log from your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from your fellow's.
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Scott Barton
I share your understanding. You recognize untruth. I would encourage you to find peace in the awareness that truth has no enemies and cannot be assailed. It is not subject to change and has no enemies. I try to remind myself when I choose to believe in falsity and become troubled. I encourage you to not be disheartened. All scarcity is the belief that lack has value. That shallow roots can be deepened. It seems our human nature. I am often reminded of forgive them for they know not what they do. That is all any of fear based thinking is. It is the belief in scarcity as having value. Clearly you have a deeper insight. Everything we perceive as lack is a forgiveness lesson. They are constant in this world. We are being called Home. To remember truth. Everything points the way when seen in this light. Forgiveness is the gate of Heaven. Thank you for sharing your gentle words which are wise in the way they remove the barriers to the awareness of loves presence.
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Marty Fowler
Galatians 6:1-6; Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the spirit should restore that person gently.But watch yourselves, or you may also be tempted.
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Ben
Gender is not binary.
Please study biology. Many individuals are, for instance, born into this world with ambiguous genitalia, or external genitalia that do not match their XX or XY chromosomal pattern. Others are born with XXY, XO, or other chromosomal patterns.
Individuals who seek gender reassignment have either chromosomal abnormalities and/or brain structures that differ from their assumed gender. These differences drive the need for change.
Point being, gender is not binary. Once you realize that, you will understand that there is nothing ‘sinful’ about gender reassignment. There is always a good reason for the reassignment.
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John Maher
BEN - binary I THANK YOU for the ENLIGHTENMENT, TRULY !!!
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Marquita Greig
We are all God's children, he made us ALL. He made us just the way we are and he loves us ALL just the way we are. God made everything - diverse. We are to learn to love all, not judge. Judgement is God's domain not ours.
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DJ
God bless the Church of England! In ancient times, just about every culture on our planet recognized the existence of more than 2 genders....some many more. It now seems to be coming full circle that people are waking up, accepting & understanding that every person is sacred & love is the answer.
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Penny
We are all Gods children created in his perfect vision. I see alot of slander, and heated debate happening here. Remember brothers, and sisters, it is not our place judge. Love God, and one another. Don't let something that you don't approve of, turn your heart. There is room enough in church for everyone.
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John Maher
drfayesnyder, I finally can say something POSITIVE,THANK YOU for YOUR COMMENTS, DUMP THE IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, IGNORAMUS made a SPEECH to the BSA the PARENTS of these BOYS should WRITE to DC and COMPLAIN,HE tRUMP was talking to MINORS, THIS PIMP has NO CONSCIENCE, HE tRUMP asked what DC should be CALLED, the SWAMP, the SEWER, the CESSPOOL, I THINK the tRUMP would be APPROPRIATE, it SMELLS TERRIBLE since HE ARRIVED, tRUMP the SKUNK !!!
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John Maher
RAVENWOLF MUSEY, as ALL LUNITICS I am SMARTER than the AVERAGE VILLAGE town IDIOT, as YOU have LABELED YOURSELF and as U KNOW the TRUTH not FAKE NEWS ALWAYS gets the TOWN village IDIOTS into NAME CALLING U can SEE this by READING all the COMMENTS from UR BUTTIES like BOOGER OWINS and SMARTY FOWLER and FURTHERMORE MUSEY I am on the SOULTRAIN, I HAVE NO FEAR of MY GOD or BELIEFS, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the USof A, .... ULC members MUST RID the UNIVERSE of NEGATIVITY and SELFISHNESS as WE HAVE been READING from SO CALLED ENLIGHTENED PERSONS, the tRUMPIES !!! NOW !!! LISTEN WELL to the WORDS of Mr. BERNIE SANDERS and VOTE, VOTE, VOTE....................
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Minister Mika
Sigh John you do realize you are contradicting yourself.you say we should rid the world of negativity and selfishness.while I agree wholeheartedly on this you yourself display quite the amount of negativity.I could care less about politics.as it causes the people to fight against themselves in pointless arguments.and yes I have noticed that there is a lot of name calling in practically every post so far.it is foolish bickering.also I'm no town idiot.I merely corrected your phrase of "village idiot."and I shall repeat my earlier statement: "Bernie Sanders himself supported Trump once he backed out of the running." It is the truth and it is what made me lose all respect for him.I may support Trump but I still hate him.however my dislike for Hillary is far more powerful than my dislike of Trump.if Bernie had in fact never backed out I would have voted for him.but it seems this was not to be as look what happened.I may be crazy but I DO pay attention even while others do not.
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Marty Fowler
Raven, I have found no proof that Bernie Sanders ever backed President Donald Trump, or supported him in any way after he backed out of the running. Maybe you can direct me to some "proof" of that. HILDABEAST FOR PRISON!!!!!!!
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Minister Mika
A pity Marty that you obviously don't pay attention when important things go one.if you wish to have "proof"then I suggest you pay attention for once.I find you that "proof" you seek but even then I highly doubt you will listen.the truth is there.open you eyes and might just be able to see it.
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Minister Mika
Marty Fowler.here is th proof you asked for.
Bernie Sanders Endorses Donald Trump Your News Wire
Bernie Sanders: I Support Donald Trump
Sean Adl-Tabatabai
6 months ago

Former Democrat candidate Bernie Sanders has come out in support of Donald Trump, publicly praising Trump’s achievement in defeating the establishment.
Senator Sanders spoke at a CNN town hall on Monday night, praising Trump for winning the presidency after an audience member asked him what Trump’s “strongest attribute” was.
Libertywritersnews.com reports:
But look what Bernie Sanders said at a CNN town hall with Chris Cuomo. Bernie! Bernie! Bernie!
This is a shout to all you Bernie bros. It’s time to come on board the Trump train.
All us Trump voters will welcome you with open arms.
Bernie was asked what he thought Trump’s strongest attribute was and he answered:
“Well, let me – that’s not a hard question for me to answer.
Look, any objective assessment in the last year or a year-and-a-half, or how long it was, will tell you that Donald Trump did something extraordinary.
Something that nobody, but nobody, thought that he could do.
Trump took on the Republican establishment, took on the Democratic establishment, took on the media establishment, and he ended up winning the election to become President of the United States.
That is an extraordinary accomplishment.
So, I give, you know, Donald Trump his due. And I think any fair-minded person has got to.”
He’s not the man that you have to love. He’s the man that gets things done. Amen to that Bernie.
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Marty Fowler
That was a excellent "non answer" from somebody who has no, I repeat, no proof!!! Demorats know their place, don't leave the pack or ELSE!. Pity that!
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Marty Fowler
Wow, what a limb he climed out on.......................................Sanders Statement on Trump Wednesday, November 9, 2016 BURLINGTON, Vt., Nov. 9 – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement Wednesday after Donald Trump was elected president of the United States:
“Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer.
“To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.” !!!!!!!!!..............................“To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country" MAYBE BERNIE SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS WHILE HE CAMPAIGNED INSTEAD OF EVERYTHING WILL BE (SOCIALISM) FREE! THIS IS HARDLY SUPPORT MY FRIEND, ITS COMMON SENSE!!!!!!!
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Minister Mika
See Marty?even when presented with the "proof" you requested you do not listen.whether you like it or not Bernie did in fact support trump.not all democrats are loyal to their organization.I belong to neither one.so I could care less.however you refusing to accept the truth does not change the fact that it is the truth.I almost feel sorry for you.shall I send you the link to the page I copied and pasted those words from hmm?
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Minister Mika
http://yournewswire.com/bernie-sanders-supports-donald-trump/
Take a look at this Marty Fowler. Face it.Bernie supported Trump.
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Marty Fowler
This is what he said after he stepped down as canidate as you indicated, not AFTER the election................How Bernie Sanders Responded to Trump Targeting His Supporters Justin Worland Jul 22, 2016 Newly minted GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump namechecked Bernie Sanders fans during his speech accepting the nomination, seeking their support now that their preferred candidate has left the race. "I have seen firsthand how the system is rigged against our citizens, just like it was rigged against Bernie Sanders. He never had a chance," Trump said. "But his supporters will join our movement, because we will fix his biggest issue." The Democrat runner-up didn't see it that way. In case there was any question—and there never really was—Sanders took to Twitter to explain why his supporters should not back Trump. For Sanders, the list is long — from the Supreme Court to his stance on the minimum wage. "Is this guy running for president or dictator?" Sanders said in his most pointed Tweet. Pay attention to your own words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you see support here???????????
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John Maher
THERE is NO PROOF of that STATEMENT* BERNIE SUPPORTS tRUMP* ANYWHERE and ESPECIALLY on VIDEO, LIKE ALL the VIDEOs SHOWING tRUMPs IGNORANCE DAILY, tRUMPs a THUG in CHINESE CLOTHING
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Minister Mika
As a matter of fact I can.read between the lines Marty Fowler.or are unable to do that?
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Marty Fowler
You've been bettered here sir. Take this loss like a grain of salt, there will be many more in your future. I am a registered Independent, I see things with both eyes open, you sir do not. You can say that you belong to neither party but your words say differently. Trump will put the country back into the hands of the people, instead of all the criminal politicians on both sides. The demorat strategy of "resist" is not complicated for my eyes. It means resist thoughts that are not like ours! Diversity? Again their motto on free speech, its allowed, as long as you say what we want you to say. Diversity?Equality, it only matters to them as long as its people in their own party. Diversity? The whole world is watching the left melt down over this election hammering, its embarrassing. You should all move to Mexico, so you can pay for the wall which will be built! So long chum...........
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Minister Mika
Baka.I'm female.and I'd love to leave this horrid country but I'm not allowed to.that wall is one thing I honestly DON'T approve of.taking political shit so seriously...no matter who it is all politicians are the same.I'm giving Trump a benefit of a doubt only because he did not start out as a politician.I still strongly dislike him because of how he acts. I have not been bested Marty Fowler.you are wasting your time by trying.I've been civil for some time now.however I tire of playing nice.so let us compromise.agree to disagree and leave it at that.that is all we can do now as it would appear both of us are far too stubborn to back down.what say you?
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drfayesnyder
There seems to be a lot of pious rhetoric as people find such refined ways to say transsexuals are sinning, going against the Bible and other such judgements. Then there's counter attacks that John Maher is illiterate for the way he writes. If he were illiterate, he is still smart. I'd rather be with someone who writes in such a planned sort of chaos than with someone who accepts rhetoric without question, even when it harms others. I wish I could stop you. I wish I could censor you from this church. I wish there were standards to get in. I wish there were no self-righteous judgmental ignorant people in our midst. I wish you would educate yourselves, you fundamentalists. Your place in history is against progress and insight. You are brainwashed from early childhood directly or indirectly. You do not know how to think critically. You are not perceptive, and you lack compassion for those less fortunate than you.
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John Maher
I WISH I SAID THAT, BRAVO, drfayesnyder, BRAVO AGAIN, UNFORTUNATELY the MUSEYs and the BUTTIE BUD LIGHTs and the BOOGER OWINS, FOWLER the BIRD, ALL the tRUMPIE VILLAGE IDIOTS are NAZI THINKERS as ALL IGNORAMUSES, YOU DO NOTHING ALONE SO TREAT YOUR FELLOW MAN as YOUR BROTHER or SISTER, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARD NAZI CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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drfayesnyder
Dear, dear Marty, Clearly you are not watching the news. The evidence is abundant, including contradictory statements from Trump, himself; Donald, Jr, and Kirshner, his son-in-law, followed by changes in story and bold-faced lying followed by truth. First, "It never happened." Now, "OK, so it happened, so what?" There are other witnesses now from high up in the government, including the ex head of the FBI, who he fired, as well as the Attorney General, who he speaks of firing nearly every day, for not protecting him from an investigation. He clearly fires anyone who may rat on him, but how do you fire you son and son-in-law? The evidence is mounting so seriously, I expect movement to impeach. This is not hate. This is about possible treason and obstruction of justice. It's about trickery and corruption at the highest level of a democracy, by a president who favors dictatorial behaviors. It's time you took a good look at the lack of integrity in the man you champion. Again, as a cleric, I think you need to be responsible enough to look closer before name calling people who are highly concerned and who are Trump supporters. What kind of values do you have? What measures do you use?
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Marty Fowler
Your own words right back at you my friend, you need to be responsible enough to know " what is" and " what is not". Even top Demorats like Chuck the huckster Shummer say its time to stop beating the dead Russian horse. Is he responsible Mr. responsible cleric. Get over your losing, crying, rioting loss. Equal rights and freedom of speech, say the demorats, unless we dont like what you say or a women that is a Republican...............OPEN YOUR CLOSED MIND TO THE TRUTH MY FRIEND! BTW..........Trump has ruled on this day that Transgenders will not be allowed to serve in the United States Military. And so goes this post.
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John Maher
SMARTY FOWL-MOUTH is a JACKASS with tRUMP BLINDERS ON, the STICK and CARROT IMAGE, the IGNORANT BEING LED BY the tRUMP LIES, UNBELIEVABLE HOW IGNORANCE can PREVAIL so LONG and the IGNORANT do not CHANGE in ANY WAY, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A......... A STREET PUNK is STILL A STREET PUNK EVEN if YOU CALL tRUMP president !!!
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drfayesnyder
I don't know who said this, "the demorats are scrapping the toilet bowl, because thats where they live. Again, they got nothing, squat, zip, nota." So you are another one who has no business calling himself clergy. This is argumentum ad hominem. You can't deal with the content so you name call. Yes, the evidence is frighteningly abundant. This is the craziest behavior by a president in history. Your president is about to get himself impeached for his corruption, interfering with the judicial process, and aligning with an enemy to betray our democracy and democratic system. The Washington Post and New York Times are impeccably researching the details, as well as the three different investigative committees. You will eat your words. You are aligning yourself with hateful leadership who are invested in taking from the poor and average citizen to further benefit the rich, often by doing illegal and immoral acts. These behaviors are being investigated. There is evidence. What side of history do you want to be on? The way you speak, you do not deserve to be clergy. This is where the generosity of the ULC puts the rest of us at great risk for our credibility. It's a wonderful experiment, but our membership owes it to the ULC not to allow or tolerate such hateful and ignorant leadership within.
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Marty Fowler
That's your problem.......................The New York Times? The Washington Post? That's where you get your news? I'll pray for you.
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Marty Fowler
Here ya go, I copied this off goggle just for you........it is his words, look it up.............Schumer recently said, "When you lose to somebody who has 40 percent popularity, you don't blame other things — [James] Comey, Russia — you blame yourself ... So what did we do wrong? People didn't know what we stood for, just that we were against Trump. And still believe that."
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John Maher
WHERE do YOU GET YOUR NEWS SMARTY FOWLERUP and WHAT EXACTLY do YOU STAND FOR, I G N O R A N C E and tRUMP, TAKE YOUR tRUMP and EAT IT, JACKASS !!! DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Minister Mika
http://yournewswire.com/bernie-sanders-supports-donald-trump/
Here is the link.should you be brave enough to face the truth simply click on it.
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John Maher
FAKE NEWS MUSEY just like YOUR COWARDLY NAME SAKE used on this BLOG, RAVENWOLFMUSESHYTE, VILLAGE IDIOT, ANOTHER tRUMPIE , DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, ANYONE SUPPORTING the TRAITOR tRUMP has NO IDEA of WHAT is TRUTH, ALL VILLAGE IDIOTS !!!
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Messenger of the way
The Heavenly Father put the best man in possion. Why? Becuase, Those of us in the WAY ! are not going to have problems. Second, Scriptures read "Don't hate on the leader's on the nations." And if you vote...Then pay taxes to him. I choose YHWH !
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John Maher
I hate NO PERSON only THEIR IGNORANCE, MESSEGER LIKE YOU ANOTHER COWARD with a D C comics NAME, VILLAGE IDIOT, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A....... YHWH is that a BRANCH of the YWCA ??? I PAY TAXES to MY COUNTRY and VOTE BUTT NEITHER GO to the tRUMP and HIS IGNORANCE,BLAME the RNC/GOP in YOUR MESSAGES ,MESSENGER OF WHAT DOOM or DUMB ???
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Messenger of the way
You take the time to read the word you wouldn't be talk in this manner. You are not a called ONE! We care about everyone. We show love to each that with to come to undetstanding. We are one with the Father & Son A unity! Satan is ugly & uses the weak to cause strife. Happy to say something brought you here so listen. Watch you mouth, its a two edge sword. You'll pay when messing with a called out one....it happened time & time again. Read learn don't hate.
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drfayesnyder
What on earth has Hillary done that could even begin to compare with Donald? What on earth? I really want to know this.
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drfayesnyder
I didn't see a video (that would open). I read an answer to a question asked of Bernie, "Would you give D. Trump credit for anything?" and he answered that he gives him credit for taking on the Republican party. That was fair and generous, but not an endorsement. If you ask him now that there is so much evidence that he endorsed attempts to sabotage the election by the Russians and lied to cover up, I don't thin you would find anything but disdain.
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drfayesnyder
This is not about losing and being a poor sport. This is about saving our democracy from corruption and dictatorship(s). We have a president that cannot be trusted in any way I can think of. When he won, I was disappointed but curious how he would do. Now I am appalled. I never imagined anything this serious and threatening to our country. This is not sour grapes. You need to watch the news. This is about cutting our country off at the knees. Taking 1/6 of Americans off health care or more, colluding with dishonestly rigging elections, lying to the investigative bodies, firing people who don't cover your lies, lack of transparency, and so on. OMG, no president has ever gotten away with this or even tried, not Barry Goldwater, Nixon, Bush or Bush. This is not about Republican v Democrat anymore. This is about some modicum of integrity and obeying the law.
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drfayesnyder
OK, I'm not even going to concern myself with you anymore. You are too far gone to reach. If you think those news sources are not acceptable, then I truly get the meaning of "fake news," which is what you listen to. So, what are you going to say when all of a sudden, out of the blue, when everyone else saw it coming, that the president is being impeached? You have your head in the sand. You only watch super right-wing news, al la Tea Party news. I would like to have you kicked out of ULC. You are evil. You are against the poor, the downtrodden, the rejected and you pretend to be righteous and fair. OMG. You are a danger to the public. I hope you have no followers. I believe you joined the ULC just for the free credential. You are a fraud. There is no spirituality in you, just a Christian version of KKK, ISIS or any judgmental belief. I find that people like you hide huge secrets about their own lack of integrity. You are not safe.
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drfayesnyder
I don't think we should take him seriously. I think Marty is a lost cause.
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John Maher
drfayesnyder, MARTY is IGNORANT of the FACTs like ALL tRUMPIES, they BELIEVE in MONEY and WEALTH and RICHES, the PREY of tRUMP, WE had a saying in NY, AN ALUMINIUM SIDING SALESMAN, that DESCRIBES a tRUMP, its a PERSON that NEVER HONORS or COMPLETES the JOB or KEEPs their WORD or PAYS their DEBTS, SOUNDS LIKE tRUMP to ME,on your COMMENT, WE SHOULD TAKE MARTY SERIOUSLY BECAUSE that is WHERE the COUNTRY is HEADED @ this MINUTE, IGNORANT BLISS, DUMP the IGNORANT COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, GET SMART, SMARTY FOWLERUP tRUMP is the LEADER of KAOS !!!
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Messenger of the way
100% of the people on the earth is a sinner. We whom are called to change for the better way of life, and do so guide others. If two of the same wish to merry because of love! Let it be with celibacy. For it is a sin for two men to lay as one like a wife.
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John Maher
HEY MESS enger, SPEAK for YOURSELF I HAVE NO FEAR of GOD or MORTAL MAN in the SIN Dept. I DO NOT SIN, I JUST LIVE MY LIFE ACCORDINGLY, JESUS CHRIST SUPER STAR !!! ... DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A........TRUTH is NOT HATE BUTT FAKE NEWS is HATE 100 % and it is LIES, WHAT SAYETH YOU MESSYenger ???
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Messenger of the way
The letter J was added to the alphabet in the 17 century its greek for Zeus means horse......your bad I speak for The Brother head. A. Dbvb xxx' r
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John Maher
MESSenger the LETTER J was ADDED for YOU, JERK, JACKASS, JESTER I COULD get WORSE BUTT, JESUS SAYS NO, YOU DO NOT DESERVE my EFFORT... DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP and ALL Zeuses Js,...GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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june Rangel
Why do you argue with John Maher? He is a self absorbed,self seeking person who all we know can be a teenager.He makes no sense and argues with everyone.We call people like him 'cyber bullies' who enjoys causing chao's.If you don't reply to him after this day he will go somewhere else.If he or she is a adult you can't argue with those stuck on stupid.Move on to those you like to converse about the subject at hand.Me, I am putting this decision in God's hands because it is to big for us to handle but I am against Transgender people being in ministry or military.
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John Maher
HEY JUNE RANGEL you make ME SOUND just like tRUMP, NOW THATS an INSULT B' ATCH, JUNE do not WAIT to HEAR from GOD for HE does NOT SPEAK to VILLAGE IDIOTS BUTT will GREET you @ the LAST ROUND UP, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Minister Mika
John Maher it appears your soul is poisoned.It is not your place nor that of any other human to speak for God.If you were a True Child of Christians you would be the better man and stop this foolish and pointless arguing. You would not dare to speak for God.Leave Judgement to Him.for it is not a Human's place to judge another.
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John Maher
HEY MUSEY, and my HEART is BLACK, its YOU and the OTHER BIBLE BABBLERS PRETENDING to SPEAK as GODS, GET a LIFE, SPEAK for YOURSELF if U CAN ??? DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, SPEAKING of BLACK SOULS and HEARTS, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A........LEARN HOW to READ VILLAGE IDIOT !!!
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Minister Mika
I have noticed.and if you truly believe I'm a Child of Christ you are sadly mistaken and need to think again.I'm a Daughter of Wicca.I know more than you people may think.as for getting a life I don't need to as I already have one.you however are a different matter.i did speak for myself when I replied to your comment.I would never even dream of speaking for my gods unless they themselves asked me to.also..if you truly think America is great...then you are a "village idiot ".there is nothing great about th is corrupted country.
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John Maher
HEY MUSEY, if U don't like it, the USA, then leave it or try to MAKE it BETTER, BUTT this COUNTRY is GREAT and YOU think SHYTEHEAD tRUMP is GOING to HELP U or ANYBODY else in ANYWAY, BETTER get a TICKET for an AIRPLANE you AIN'T got TIME for a FAST TRAIN, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT, SO IS THE U S of A and ALWAYS will be, get YOUR FACE OUT of WHATEVER YOU'VE BEEN READING and PAY ATTENTION to YOUR COUNTRY, if YOU LEAVVE it to POLITICIANS it WILL ALWAYS BE CORRUPT, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, PUT that in YOUR BREWPOT WICCAWITCH................
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Minister Mika
Such big words for one whose soul is that of Spoiled Child of Darkness.I'd love to leave.however I'm not allowed to. Also I'm surprised you even know what Wicca is..and no.this country is a corrupt places.people full of hatred and Darkness like you only prove it.you poor littlesoul..you haven't a clue what is happening.I pity you.You should really pay more attention to the world.such a poisoned man however can never see clearly.you have been blinded little one.Mayhap you don't wish to see the truth...either way....you will one day...whether you wish to or not.prepare yourself little one for the pain will be great.
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Messenger of the way
I had made this same dession you suggested. Thank you!
Some men will grow up when ready. Sincerely, Pastor Mark-
John Maher
TO JUNE and the MESSENGER, GOOD LUCK DUCK, I AM HERE @ this BLOG UNTIL I DIE and BEING a TEENAGER YOU BUTT tRUMPIES have a LONG,LONG WAY to GO BUTTIES, BEST get BACK to your VILLAGE I am SURE they MISS YOU, NO ONE to THROW GARBAGE AT / ON whatever, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A,..... P S yes I am a SELFIE unto MYSELFIE !!!
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eliud colbath
The church of England is no longer a church. God is the same always.For the people in charge , they think that if you don't allow a transvestite they discrimnate.Well they're right. The church is making a grave mistake.They will follow God's word that is in the Bible or subject it's self to the world. Please don't shout the word, discrimination.I'm sick and tierd of it.The Church of England has chosen.It's not the church of God almighty any more.The word of God is truth.You most follow it, though you be dammed.Gods word discriminates on what he knows is wrong.If we say we believe , then we must not deviated from his word.The leaders of this place, not church will be judged for their action.
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Minister Mika
I believe they are making a good choice.it is no sin to accept people for who they are.all are equal and yet most of you christians treat homosexuals and transvestites as abominations.they are human too.therefore they are to be treated equally.it is not your place nor that of any other human to decide what is sin and what is not.you leave that to God.Judge not and ye will not be judge.remember that.
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JOHN MAHER
HEY MUSEY was that YOU in the ROBIN HOOD MOVIE PRINCE of THIEVES, YEAH the SHERIFFS CRAZY WITCH MAMA, for SOMEONE SPEAKING AGAINST JUDGEMENT YOUR JUDGEMENTS HAVE NOT CEASED as of YET, AH ! SHADDUP WITCH.............DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL tRUMP,is that why HE tRUMP CALLING EVERYTHING a WITCH HUNT, AMAZING, WHY CAN'T YOU LEAVE CAN'T get OUT of YOUR BOTTLE or MIRROR MAYBE ??? GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, tRUMP has BEEN BEWITCHED, GREAT GUGAMUGA !!!
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Minister Mika
You wish it were me.but no.I'm much more than the one would ever be.as for my judgements...let me remind you that you are the one who began the judgemental stuff.I will not back down from people like you.it is your kind that threaten the Great Balance.judge me and i do the same and judge you right back.like I Said I'm no Christian. Nor am I a normal human.therefore most rules do not apply to me.that being said I shall let you in on a little secret.your weak then again..that is no secret.weak because you let yourself be controlled by hate.you are a fool little one.ans that will be your down fall.no one listens to a man when he is simply making a fool of himself over and over again.and that John Maher is what you are doing.
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JOHN MAHER
UNFORTUNATELY MUSEY A B NORMAL, I KNOW NOT WHAT YOUR AFFLICTION or CURSE is [ not normal ] EITHER WAY BLOE it OUT YOUR BROOM WbITCH
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Minister Mika
It is neither Curse nor Affliction John Maher.it is a Gift.One that a Child of Darkness such as yourself will never understand.and honestly...witches do not fly on broomsticks.that is a stereotypical fantasy written by the fools in Hollywood.At least do your homework before trying to make a point.it makes you look like an even bigger fool than you have already made yourself out to be.
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John Maher
HEY MUSEY, GIT YERSELF a BROOM, I LIVE in HOLLYWOOD and YOU MUST ACTUALLY be a POOR WbITCH, are You a GOOD Wbitch or a BAD WbITCH ??? I HATE NO ONE WELL ONLY WbITCHES who do not BELIEVE in HOLLYWOOD BUTT BELIEVE in the WIZARD of ODD, tRUMP. and you talk a LOT of SHYTE almost as MUCHO as DUMP the tRUMP the COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, MINUS the WbITCHES WITHOUT BROOMS, FAKE NEWS !!!
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DrFaye
You sound self-righteous.
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Minister Mika
Hmm..you living with those Hollywood idiots explains a lot.no wonder you are a natural at making a fool of yourself and happen to be sadly misinformed about my kind.I don't believe in the "Wizard of Oz"Crap.that is a form of entertainment for children.perhaps you should watch it?and in answer to your question which I'm sure was rhetorical but I shall answer anyway,I am both.though i prefer using my power for good.However there is no Light without Darkness so i am both Good and Bad.and yeah I am poor.but I'd rather be a moneyless witch than a rich fool.and for the record....I speak the truth.whether you like it or not little one.and you should know that to me...bitch is no insult.is it a compliment.now little boy go at with your toys until you can actually be mature.
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John Maher
HEY MUSEY, JUST WHAT is YOUR KIND ??? WbITCH was not MEANT as an INSULT, ONLY EXPLAINS YOUR ATTITUDE WbITCH
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Minister Mika
I have no attitude You do,John Maher..I spoke only the truth in a civil manner.And as I have said before,my kind are Wiccans.We keep the Balance between the Light and Dark and prefer peace over violence;.Unlike you it would appear little Child of Darkness.It took you some time to reply to my comment.I wonder why that is.Perhaps you finally saw the truth for once.But you have a ways to go little one.Speak not with hatred.A human adult who acts like a spoiled child will get nothing from it.
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John Maher
RIGHT MUSEY U SPEAK the TRUTH as UR PRESIDENT the EXALTED NAZI tRUMP, I was LUCKY ENOUGH to BE SPOILED WITH a FREE MIND and a GOOD EDUCATON,BOTTOM LINE KISS my GRITS WbITCH, get a HEADWIND fer YER BROOM........if YOUR a TRUE WICCAN and YOU PRACTICE HOW and WHAT you SAY I will RESPECT THAT, TRUTH !!!
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Minister Mika
Foolish child.You are even less informed than i thought.Luck is not with me.Never has been.I fight to survive here little one.I earn what i get.I do not think everything should be handed to me like certain child.I am a True Wiccan.I do as i speak unless there is good reason for me not to.And i will not.i may end up as poisoned as you.
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John Maher
HEY WICCAN MUSEY, YOU ALREADY SPEAK with FORKED TONGUE, SO YOU MUST be VENOMOUS, A FAKE NEWS SERPENT.......
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Minister Mika
Do I now? or it it just you being unwilling to accept the truth when when faced with it. And guess what John Maher?The origin of the Snake is not bad.The Snake is a symbol of fertility and Wisdom. You need to do some studying before have any chance of throwing decent insults. Serpents are the symbol of Ancient Wisdom. You have grown defensive in your replies. You know I am correct. Poor little child. Blinded by hate. If I am a Serpent then your kind will be my Prey. Watch yourself Little One. For my venom will burn. Best to stop your hate and see with clarity before your time is up.
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John Maher
DEAR MUSEY WICCAN DOUBLE SHYTE, I ALWAYS SEE PICTURES of SO CALLED Saints Standing on and CRUSHING the HEADS of SERPENTS like UUUUUU........ WHEN YOU CAN PISS up a ROPE maybe then U will get MY ATTENTION, SSSSSS
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Minister Mika
How amusing the little child actually thinks I want his attention. Your cute little one. To actually think I care about gaining your attention. I see you for what you are. A lost soul tainted by Darkness and wishing to spread misery simply because you yourself are miserable. I'll say it again little one. I am not so easy to drag down into the pits of Misery. Do your homework before making comments boy.
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DrFaye
When "hate" confronts hate, it's not hate. When judgement is pious, it's a toxic abuse of power. I think that's why the Bible warned of false profits and JC asked who is without sin... It's time to self reflect and earn your free, self-appointed title.
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Natalia
Greetings, I just found this post in my old email list. Not sure if I had posted in it. I have to wonder why some of you who judge seem to sit so self rightious?. Does it not say we shall not judge for its G-D's place? Trans,gay,lesbian,etc etc, we don't live their lives, we live our own. I personally have lived 64 years as a woman on this world, always reading or hearing this is wrong that is wrong. Who's to say? Surely not you nor me. I am a intersexed (both genders)woman, born this way. Who are you to say whom I should love or marry, or live with? Its not your heart, life, or mind. Tell me where do I belong?. Or am I a abomination too. Oh yes G-D don't make mistakes. Am I a mistake? Who do I love male or female? I am the one who has to answer for my transgression and short comings. I am proud to be myself never altered, or surgercialy changed. And my wife,yes I said wife loves me for who I am not what I am. As I ask who are we to judge. Try living their or my life. Sincerely. A heart feeling modern Jewish woman.
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John Maher
YOU NATALIE SOUND LIKE a VERY KIND and LOVING PERSON HAVING to LIVE in a DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP WORLD, UNFORTUNATELY !!!
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Natalia
Thank you, I try to be a very understanding loving helping caring being in tjis turmoiled world.
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Since when are sinners not allowed in church? We're all sinners. God hands us all obstacles to be overcome. A person that thinks they are female when God made them male has an obstacle to overcome. Why not find out the lesson God gave you rather than circumvent it? As for a special ceremony in a church service to celebrate a gender transition? Celebrating the circumvention of God's obstacle in church just seems wrong. Living as the gender you were given won't hurt you, expensive unnecessary surgery could. Maybe in the afterlife I will be happy all the time because I dealt with my obstacles in this life. Life isn't about being happy all the time, or even most of the time.
You are bigoted homophobe
There's no reason to start name calling. Like it or not, homosexuality is forbidden in both old and new testaments. We are not homophobic because we choose to respect God's wishes. Why would you want to participate in a religion that disapproves of your chosen lifestyle?
You know what else is forbidden in the Old Testament? Shellfish. Mixed fabric clothing. Pork products. Shaving. Tattoos. Cross-bred animals.
Yet the typical christian (small "c" intentional - since they're such in name only rather than followers of the actual teachings of Christ) of today has no issue with a Labradoodle-owning heavily-tattooed, clean-shaven man in a permanent-press shirt eating bacon-wrapped scallops, unless the person sitting across the table from him is his husband.
That is the most brilliant reply ever! So often people interpret the bible to their own advantage (often with disastrous consequences)
Why not quote all 913 items forbidden in the book of Leviticus? It still doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is forbidden in both the old testament as well as the new testament. Unless someone is looking for their 15 minutes of fame, why would they even want to participate in a religion that doesn't accept their beliefs? Claim to be LGBT and request to convert to Islam. Let's see how far you get. Many religions want little or nothing to do with LGBTs. I didn't write the rules I just try to abide by them.
Well said! :)
HERB MEISTER, instead of QUOTING from ANTIQUATED PAGES, WHY NOT TELL US ALL of WHAT U REALLY think of the SITUATION, try LIVING in REALITY and not in a DUSTY GONE AWAY BOOK, LETs HEAR FROM HERB MEISTER, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
Herb, how did you get here? Do you understand the history of this church? Are you an opportunist, seeking to quickly document your piety? I have always worried that the ULC would be exploited by shallow people. Do you understand that this church was founded in order to support conscientious objectors? It is a church that was founded to support cutting edge ethics that represent courageous acts of conscience that fly in the face of conventional opinion. I am appalled at the number of literal interpreting, Bible-thumping, fast-tracking experts on divinity, as if the final word on ethics continues to be in the Bible, which condones child abuse, slavery and other activities that are abominable under today's sun. I hope the measure of true piety is the ability to question beliefs that seem unkind, absent judgment and includes those who would not cast stones, who prefer to understand and accept and those who grasp that religion is for the purpose of raising our ethics not polarizing beliefs. Ugh.
Well said! And yes I would attend a transition ceremony. Just like I would a commitment ceremony or wedding, baptism, christening or funeral service. These are the ceremonies that mark big steps in people's lives. And generally all of these ceremonies include God in the celebration.
OMG (pardon) Minister V,...that is just the GREATEST retort I have ever heard!!! And to the christian (small 'c') out there, look it up!!!!
Old Testament/Covenant - God's promise to the Jews New Testament/Covenant - God's promise to the Christians (Old testament/Covenant done away - nailed to the cross of Calvary)
While I support anyone's right to do as they please within their own domicile, that right ends where my children can be forcibly exposed to that sin. I reserve the God-given and commanded right to refuse to condone or celebrate that sin.
As someone who endured sexual abuse (homosexual rape) from age 9-13 by a man 20 years my senior, one would have to be deaf, dumb, blind and insane to question my New Testament based opinion on this SIN! I will ignore any further idiotic comments on this post.
GREAT COME BACK of TRUTH MINISTER V, the IGNORANT ALWAYS MISUSE the BIBLE with BABBLE BRAINFARTS, NOT BEING ABLE to THINK for THEMSELVES
minister v: small m and v intentional :) "Him" can't have a Husband, only a Wife" error code: Id10T
Actually, homosexuality is not forbidden in the Old Testament. Males are forbidden to engage in sex with other males, but females are not prohibited from lesbian encounters.
The Orthodox rabbinate of antiquity - and today - explain that this is because the concern was not homosexuality, per se. There were two primary concerns. First, that a man engaging in homosexual encounters would not be procreating; in Jewish culture and law, procreation is important, a mitzvah. Second, that one man in a homosexual encounter would play a sexually submissive role; this was anathema in Middle Eastern Culture.
According to my Hebrew dictionary, and consulting with the local Orthodox rabbi, homosexual is defined as a sexual attraction to another person of the same sex. Man or woman doesn't matter. Same gender sex is homosexuality.
Herb, I am a Orthodox rabbi.
'Homosexuality' is a modern-day word. Of course your rabbi friend described it as he did.
Doesn't matter. Lesbian is not forbidden in the Hebrew Bible. Also, according to halacha, Orthodox Jewish law, lesbian is not forbidden.
Homosexual acts, as described in the Hebrew Bible and by Halacha, Orthodox Jewish law, is not as you imagine.
Ben I think they use homosexuality because it sounds better than "Faggot"
I am a suporter of equal rights for all however I would like to make the point that the only reason the Bible would talk about only men when discussing sex needs to be thought about in the terms of the time frame in which it as written. Women were not consider to be sexual beings in any of the same ways as men till well into the 20th Century.
Again, not a good example because in my mind the idea itself should be removed due to the same reason. But it proves that the Bibles message as a whole is for love and compassion but to take each verse and still consider that any of its messages consider what the world would be like now is just narrow minded.
When you question God's choice for your life, you are making the most foulest mistake EVER!!!
MARQUETTA paddle your KAMOGA up a NARROW RIVER as NARROW as YOUR NARROW MINDEDNESS ......DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
Amen, Marquetta please excuse john his mother dropped him on his head when he was a baby and he hasn't been right ever since :)
U can not judge ppl for any reason god will judge them..go on with ur life and don't worry about them
Marsha read Matthew chapter 18 and your posts won't appear to others as ignorant :)
WHY YOU DO NOT K NOW ME LOL YOU STATING THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU STATED. I AM NOT A HATR OF QUEERS TRANS IT NOT HATE OF THE PEOPLE IT IS HATE OF THE SIN IN THIER LIFES AND PEOPLE WHO CONTINUE TO ACCEPT THE SIN NOT OFFER REDEMTION AND SALVATION FROM THE GIFT GOD GVES ALL OF US THROUGH THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST TO FORGIVE THE ORIGINAL SIN AND ALL SINS THEREAFTER.
I'm having a hard time following this. I did not notice that John Maher used the word "hate". He did infer that you were narrow minded for the reason that you believe one should not question "God's choice for your life." What on earth do you mean by that other than to project that God wants a transgender person not to make the change he/she feels compelled to do? So, are you holding that it is God's choice that we should be authentic, or is it God's choice that someone like you would speak for Him and determine that another should live with their conflicted, body dysmorphic state and to not do so is a sin. That's not my God. I feel outraged to hear ministers represent God as a force to blackmail people into behaving according to their narrow minded, outdated understanding of God and religion.
GREAT COMMENT drfayesnyder, if you can't follow THESE HATERs TRY LISTENING to tRUMP the NAZI THEIR LEADER, SOUNDS LIKE FEEDING TIME in the HEN HOUSE and tRUMP OUTSIDE CROWING like the RED CROWNED ROOSTER
We have every reason to believe that trans people have a medical, biological, reason for transitioning, which is why it is permitted. Non-medical professionals have no more right to question the judgment of physicians in this situation than we have to question them regarding heart transplants.
Stop using your faith as a weapon.
I'm a physician and we could care less if you wanna be queer or a freak of nature as long as you got the money :)
Kirk, don't let Joseph's unkind comments bother you, obviously He or She has some obstacles to overcome just like the rest of us :) Let's pray that Joseph will come to understand that being unkind will never be a solution but only adds to the problem :)
AS A QUEER FREAK DOCTOR BUD, YOU CERTAINLY WOULD KNOW !!!
There was NOTHING bigoted OR homophobic in Kirk's comments. YOU are bigoted and have a chip on your shoulder.
How do you know the obstacle isn't overcoming the negativity and abuse from others and fully becoming what they already know they are? God's plan for one might not be the same as the plan for another and whatever a person decides to do should be between that person and their maker, and their doctors, not anyone else.
There is a lot of truth in what you say. If we truly believe that our God is omnipotent, then why would we believe that something this petty would be an issue? If we truly believe that our God is a loving God, then we need to be loving as well.
this is a serious matter here. we ALL are sinners saved by God's grace, but when we practice sin willfully and changing your gender now this his a problem with that person ,not God's Word. his word will be what it is and we can not change it. So God is the only one that knows our heart.
Minister Jones...we don't all believe in the literal concept of sin. We spend way too much time focused on what is based in poor choices than what we know to be good. I do agree that God knows what is in our hearts, and we must deal with the reality of the laws of the land. The Bible interpretations have been contrived from the original text on homosexuality, and our laws now state that people have the right to choose. It doesn't go against the Ten Commandments and to love each person as themself, and it is the responsibility of each person to seek guidance from God, no matter who they choose to love or marry. We have been given a very clear ideal to love our neighbors as ourselves. What representation their physical body takes is inconsequential. We purify and become one with God by following the guidance to love our neighbor as ourselves. When we spend time sending out love to everyone, we begin to find the true peace and what it means to receive God's grace.
I agree with you
This is very true. I myself believe tbat God know's what resides in our heart of hearts and if we can learn to love unconditionally I think we will be on the right track...to many judgemental individuals in the world at present...I can only be one with my own personal faith with God.
I agree. Those of us who judge and reject are the problem and our guiding beliefs are failing us. It may not be our lot in life to be "happy", but we all need to acceptance (if we're not hurting anyone) and authenticity. It cannot be a religious endeavor to reject anyone because they are not enough like us.
Who am I, just a mortal being, to make judgments upon others. I choose to leave that to something a bit more powerful than myself.
Kirk...I can't begin to understand why someone comes into this life feeling they got the wrong body. Are they remembering a past life? Do they have a particular path that is motivating such a change? I would say that our physical body representation isn't as important as we think it is, and if someone believes that change will align them with their heart it is their decision to bear. You have an opinion based upon your own proclivity to judge that of someone else. That is the greater value you need to personally examine when you see people with different challenges than you. We can't begin to understand the challenges in the hearts of others. I believe that God DOES want us to be happy all the time, and when we aren't we aren't aligned with our spiritual guidance. Every time we aren't okay we need to seek God's light by practicing loving others. That isn't a judgment, but the truth. God doesn't put obstacles in our path--that is a human condition. Every minute of every day God wants us to choose His/Her guidance that brings peace and knowledge. Our desire should be to reach Wisdom. I am so sorry you see life as a series of unhappy obstacles. That is why you think a person who wants to assume the image they have of themselves in their hearts as selfish. Living the gender some were given does hurt them. You have that wrong. I don't give the human form as much as importance as you; therefore, if it moves someone's spirit forward I just can't see why someone who doesn't feel that way gets to decide for them. Do I feel they could get there without this dramatic change? If we are perfectly aligned in spirit we can do anything. But, if someone wants to withstand the physical change who are we to judge that choice or the motivation for it? I think each of us has much to do versus spending time judging the choices of others. Right?
Kirk, this is going to come as a shock to you. God does have some absolutes. Happy ain't one of them
Sorry you feel that way, Ron. It wasn't Kirk who says happiness is a choice, it is me. It is an opinion you have embraced that is sad to me. Kirk agrees with you that unhappiness is our lot in life.
It seems you have some sensitivity because you spend too much time accepting unhappy, and also absolutes you have embraced. We could probably debate a lot of those "absolutes" you have endeared from various sources. If you are a strict Bible follower the New Testament says God gave Moses new guidance. He was to love his neighbor as himself and to follow the Ten Commandments. Whatever other "absolutes" you have doesn't even follow what God said if you believe in that book for your guidance. What Paul or others said is from man, and I could create the Book of Marti that would be just as valid for a text of judgments.
So many people create "absolutes" from borrowing what they like from the Old Testament and the New Testament. They mold it into church doctrine and call it good. I won't argue with you, because it is clear to me you have found an unhappiness doctrine that you believe works. I pray that God speaks clearly to you heart, and that you find true happiness in this lifetime. Amen.
Just how do you 'know' gender reassignment is a sin?
Have you studied biology? If so, then you realize gender is a complex concept. There are, for instance, many individuals born into this world with ambiguous genitalia, or genitalia that do not match their XX or XY chromosomal pattern. Obviously, gender is not binary; biology proves that fact.
We have good reason to believe that most, if not all, individuals who seek gender reassignment have either a chromosomal anomaly or differences in brain structure leading them to effect the change.
My bet's on a "difference in brain structure."
Many have both.
This life is hard enough to live through with someone of the opposite sex. If you can find someone, anyone you can tolerate, much less love for your whole life I don't see any problems. I have been by myself for over 12 years now, straight but understanding of other's views and thoughts. If God didn't want the people that are here, here then they would not be here. The Universe (God, if you will) takes care of itself and requires very little help from me except understanding and acceptance of the lot in life that is dealt out to everyone. Why limit your thoughts and ideas just to Christianity, there are many other religions out there and they all say basically the same thing, Respect others and Love everything in creation. Out of the almost 7 Billion people on this Earth there are essentially 7 Billion different religions, everyone has their own perceptions about life and even if they blindly follow a doctrine, they still have their own ideas and thoughts that NO-ONE can control. I don't even try, I just accept what comes my way and deal with it the best I can and Press-On.
Agree with you. The Bible establishes values. Whether a person chooses an alternative is between them and God. But neither that person or the church should impose those alternative values on me. Shame on the Anglican Church. I am finding it more and more difficult to find a church that accepts sinners but stands by biblical values.
My opinion God is perfection therefore he created us in perfection by perfection. The word of the Lord is very clear on these matters and even under the law of Grace we shall not assume we can change the word to suite carnal and selfish desires coming from aspects and/or entities less than love. They lack love of self and no change will correct that, though it might indulge the ego mind. You only get one birthday and that is the day God allowed you to descend into your mothers womb to be birthed into the Earth plane. If you ask me these decisions are political not spiritual and I am not for it.
I'm In Full Agreement-
"2. “All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.
“In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.
“The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife."
(Small Part Of The- (The Family: A Proclamation to the World) 1995-
HEY RAY, WHY don"y you CONDEMN ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION and if YOU READ SMARTER than YOU SPEAK, WE ARE NOT SPEAKING of PROCREATION ARE WE ??? ...DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, and LAWFULLY WEDDED my ARSE............
Ray, Don't let John dissuade you :) The ones on here that make rude comments are among those folks that find their happiness in hurting others :( Notice the ALL CAPS? I bet he yells at everybody that disagrees with his ignorance.
sigh I see he is still at it.I should have known.Fret not Ray.John Maher's mind is poisoned by hatred and ignorance.he know not of what he speaks.I have had quite a few run ins with him.And I agree with Bud.do not let Maher's foolishness get you down.If h were thinking clearly and not controlled by his hatred he would no doubt understand.He I am sad to admit is a lost cause.
NO BUD QUEER FREAK DOC, ONLY FORKING VILLAGE IDIOTS LIKE YOU !!!
There is nothing wrong with choosing to be something other than what you are born as.if it allows them to be happy and stay true to who they are then they should be allowed to this.I do not understand why people make such a fuss over this.what ever happened to loving unconditionally?look past appearance and gender and see the person's heart.for that is where the truth lies.
I have a problem with your premise that you get to decide whether something that God gave us is an obstacle or not. I do not believe that God makes mistakes. What you call an obstacle, I call "just the way it is". We are born the way we are born. It is up to us to do good things with our gifts.
I talk to God in prayer all of the time, and I am sorry but hshe didn't mention you. Therefore I defy your self given right to tell me what to do.
Mind your own business.
SUZANNE,GO GIRL, that is the PROBLEM they ALL QUOTE like VILLAGE IDIOTS, NO MIND or SMARTS of their LIVES, LIVING in a BOOK, LIKE LIVING in a CARDBOARD BOX butt I think the PEOPLE in the BOX are MORE INTELLIGENT,... DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
John you call someone an ignoramus but you don't even know how to use a keyboard which is taught now in most kindergarten class rooms :) Ask yourself who the real ignoramus is here :)
BUD, BUTTIE, BUD LIGHT on SENSE on BRAINS, on INTELLECT, LIKE your IGNORAMUS PRESIDENT YOU BELIEVE in YOURSELF a LEGEND in your OWINS MIND, a LITTLE PUN for your BUTTIE BOOGER OWINS, GET a CHARACTER and STOP POSTING LIKE a tRUMP VILLAGE IDIOT, tRUMP you KNOW, the COWARD,the CRIMINAL, the KKK, the ALT- RIGHT, the NAZIs, the SCHMUCKs like you and the REST of the VILLAGE IDIOT CRACKERS
Please learn how to type, spell and for goodness sakes especially learn how to make sense?? Your writings are gibberish :)
HEY BUD the QUEER FREAK DOC ARE YOU a PROCTOLOGIST, STAY QUIET and SUCK YOUR FINGERS, PLEASE........
Kirk, a person that thinks they are female when God made them male doesn't have any obstacle to overcome, other than anti-transgender people's attitudes and actions toward her, and should just go and get the sex change operation and not be deterred by these people's bigotry and actions!! God didn't make a mistake by putting a female in a male body or a male in a female body, sometimes, because we are supposed to take care of some things for ourselves and stand on our own two feet and not have to have everything done for us by God or anyone else! That is why females are born in male bodies and males born in female bodies, sometimes, because God wants to motivate these people to change that situation for themselves and stand on their own two feet!!! We aren't going to be happy all of the time, but we can certainly be happy as much as we really want to be and work at being, which means, for trans-gender people, putting themselves into the bodies that they really want and are supposed to have!! So, go for it and celebrate that change in your churches or wherever else that you wish!! Those places are for all of us, not just conservatives or non-transgendered people.