A church's threatening letter written to a lesbian member of the congregation went viral after the recipient posted it online.
Krystal Cox, a salon owner inGeorgia, opened her mailbox earlier this month to find a letter from the Woodstock Church of Christ, her local congregation.
The eight paragraph, hand-signed letter was a "final warning" of sorts that explained in no uncertain terms that Cox was going to be kicked out of the church unless she acknowledged that homosexuality was a sin and agreed to repent.
Many couldn’t help but notice the letter’s vaguely threatening nature after it made the rounds on the internet. Here's an excerpt:
“As Elders of the Woodstock congregation, we have the responsibility to watch out for the souls of each member of this congregation... In light of your apparent lack of desire to hear our concerns, apparent lack of willingness to repent, and the public display of your homosexual lifestyle, we have no alternative but to withdraw our fellowship with you and must no longer treat you as a sister in Christ.”
The letter goes on, telling Cox she’ll be persona non grata within that church community.
As if that wasn't enough, it also explains how the church would announce her disfellowship during a Sunday service and that members of the church will stop speaking to her… unless it’s to encourage her to repent.
The incident has sparked renewed debate over the practice of disfellowship and excommunication, particularly for gay members of churches. Does this strategy actually work, or is it simply cruel?
Disfellowship of the Rings
Disfellowshipping is practiced in many Christian denominations, including the Church of Christ, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Church of Latter-Day Saints, and is similar to excommunication in Catholicism.
If you refuse to repent whichever sin you’re being kicked out for, not only are you banished from the church, but quite often any member of that church is prohibited from speaking with you, lest they face disfellowship themselves.
In practice, this means that a churchgoer who is gay and refuses to "repent for their sin" can lose their entire church community in the blink of an eye.
Churches say this is an act of love. Only by fully removing the sinner from the community, these hardliners argue, will that person see the error of their way and ultimately repent and ask for forgiveness.
The letter to Ms. Cox states as much: “Please understand that we love you and pray that you will repent, seek forgiveness, and return to worshipping our Father in the Lord’s church. We pray for your spiritual well-being.”
Others aren’t so sure, however, and there have been countless charges of hypocrisy on who gets kicked out, and why.
Tough Love, or Hateful Discrimination?
For one, churches that practice this type of "tough love" are rarely consistent in their application of such punishments. In fact, the targets seem to be pretty exclusively gay people.
Divorced and/or remarried people are rarely disfellowed, let alone publicly shamed in front of their congregation. But why not? Divorce is also a weighty sin, after all.
And that's just one example – when sin has a broad definition, you can bet everyone in the congregation is guilty of it at some point.
But the other question that arises is a practical one: do these sorts of ultimatums actually work? Do they succeed in bringing LGBTQ members back on "good behavior," or does sending threatening letters only push people further away from the church?
Employing such a strategy does seem a bit out of step with the whole “love the sinner, not the sin” mantra.
For Ms. Cox's part, the choice was clear. Receiving that letter was just what she needed to decide to step away from her congregation altogether.
What is your reaction?
118 comments
-
pjm
The hypocrites in today's church (I use church in general terms here) always seem to be ready to examine the lives of others, when Christianity is actually about examining one's own life. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
God doesn't love us because of who we are. He loves us because of who HE is.
-
The Rev. William C, Millhouse
Well, I feel that they gave her the excuse that she needed to, as my old priest used to say, "Vote with her feet". She does not need that sort of bigoted hatred in her life. I am sure there are many churches and covens what would welcome her with open arms. I that that group of "elders" need to remember the scripture that says: "Judge not l'est ye be judged.
-
Edward Paul Brumbaugh
While I do not encourage "Shopping for God", clearly Ms Cox was victimized by the toxic prejudices of the elders of the Woodstock congregation. Disfellowshipping Ms Cox left her with no alternative but to find another venue for worship. God is Love and I pray that Ms Cox will find a kinship with a like minded community.
-
-
William R Clapie
Not even a choice here. It is hateful discrimination. A simple tenet of "do unto others. . . " and this "church" rejects the idea of acceptance and loving the neighbor. Yeah, church. Right where I want to be with all of the bigots and pretenders. Sorry. When you "organize" religion you by default excommunicate many. Few and far between are the open religions that believe in "love one another as you love yourself". Preach hate? Get Hate. End of sermon
minister bill
-
Rev Mark D
Typical sacrement-deprived evangelical protestants...i.e., original-sinners still proving that they are still sinners.
-
-
papawterry
I don't know if this person was "flaunting" his/her lifestyle or one of the elders found out and started this, but there is no fighting this attitude. I think the best thing for this person to do is look at this crew of sad haters and quickly run to the nearest church that will accept them for their humanism not their lifestyle. They will soon find out whether this is a "church" decision or just a bunch of sick people good to be far away from... And the way this was handled certainly would eliminate me and my family from ever contemplating crossing the doorway into this hellhole...!
-
Gwendolyn Siobhan Patton
I wound up doing this. Thankfully, I had the option of a local Metropolitan Community Church, which is an LGBT Trinitarian denomination. It was a wonderful place and a great experience. It was a loving place that welcomed me with open arms at the exact moment I needed them most. But most don't have this option. I didn't have the option when I moved across the country, as the MCC isn't in my area here.
So I went another route, and meet it with self-reflection and prayer, and helping others when I can. But I don't torture myself by jamming myself into a place where I'm clearly not welcome.
-
Kellie Michelle Taylor-White
I suggest you fellowship through e-church with an MCC of your choice. I know MCC San Antonio has a wonderful internet presence and a GREAT service. They have Spanish services as well as English and at one time ASL translation. Check them out. https://www.mccofsanantonio.com/
-
-
-
Cindy L Edgar
I don't think any church or anybody has the right to choose what sexual preference a person has that goes against everything I wish people would stop judging and judge their own cells before they start judging other people so that means that since I'm bisexual and married to a man I would be judged not in this lifetime
-
James Riggle-Johnson
Cindy, I agree with you but you have to realize this is not a preference. Sexuality is not something one choses to do. We are born this way. Due to the stigma associated with homosexuality, many of us pray for salvation becasue that's what we were taught to do.
It is not a choice, it is what we were meant to be. Just like all of God's children are meant to be. I appreciate your words of acceptance.
-
-
Dan Anderson
Such idiocy. Obviously, these people are among those who have never actually looked at the historicity and culture of the writings of their own Bible.
NONE of what these sexist bigots claim to be about the condemnation of homosexuality actually is about homosexuality. Such passages include:
Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 - These are the passages which condemn the Canaanite practice of using male temple prostitutes in their religious ceremonies. It has nothing to do with two people of the same gender who happen to love each other.
1Cor 6:9-10 - If these people would look at the KJV1611 version of the Bible, there is NO mention of the term "homosexual" regarding who may not enter the 'kingdom'. Later versions do, however, which according to their own Bible is an abomination as it demands that one should not "add to nor take away from the Word of God, not one jot, not one tittle."
Romans 1:26-30 - Here we have Saul/Paul writing about an ancient fertility ritual performed by the Roman people to the goddess Diana for increased calvings & lambings, and improved crops. This ceremony would work up the practitioners into a sexual frenzy to where they would participate in an orgy at the end. Again, nothing about two people who love each other who just happen to be male or two who happen to be female.
Ah, the old Sodom & Gomorrah bit. One of the bigger excuses to claim that, because the town's people said that they "want to 'know' the angels", that it meant they want to make love to them. If they would have read the fable, they would have known these people were rapists, not romantics. The story mentions that God destroyed the communities BECAUSE OF INHOSPITALITY AND RAPE, not about two people who want to commit their lives to each other who just happen to be of the same gender.
To those who demand that it is about homosexuality, please think about this:
Remember when the term "grass" was about the stuff one cuts on a Saturday in the front and/or back yard, and not the 'greenery' one smokes? Please know that the writings from a couple of thousand years ago has little equivalence to the definitions of today. Stop making it fit your fears and bigotry.
-
Lori Mongillo
Personally, I find it hard to believe that ANYONE would want to be in fellowship with a church like that. If you're into Christianity, there are so many really great Progressive Churches out there. The only way to put an end to self-righteous fundamentalism is to keep walking away from it. They are ideological parasites that psychologically feed off the weak minds of those who have a need to be controlled. Their concepts are hardened and narrow. Fear is the ruler and Spirit is choked of Its freedom to move.
They teach division, which is anything BUT what Jesus taught. Those who are truly coming from a loving spiritual nature don't burn universal bridges. They work to make the world a more accepting, respectful, better place. Humiliation and rejection are forms of abuse. These churches promote inner conflict, rather than spiritual support. They hide behind a mask they call love and attempt to force their psychological manipulation on unsuspecting souls. If you adopt a dis-functional concept, you leave yourself open to inner conflict and the decline of your own creative abilities.-
Samuel Ball
Yes I agree, it clearly states in the Holy Bible ( Judge not lest ye be judged ) and several times in the Bible it says ( God is Love ) That church is going against the word of God by judging that woman they are comiting a sin. She needs to inform them of that and find a church that practices what they preach!
-
Gail A Bentley
This is a travesty!!!!
Shame on them for being so hateful! I was shocked at the blatant disregard of decency that comes from such an organized "GANG" of bigots!
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thank you, Lori.
-
Jeremy Todd Staples
I really enjoyed reading your comment. I most definitely agree with you. It is ironic however, that we call churches, “progressive”, when they do not adopt such spiritual division, and are Actually picking up whatt Jesus was putting down, concerning love and acceptance etc. Those are ideas that Jesus was teaching from the very beginning, ironically enough. Very well said friend. God bless you all.
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Another poor quality joke, in bad taste, from the court jester.
-
James Pace
To Hel with them. If that's how they feel, I wouldn't want to congregate with them anyway. There are plenty of fellowships out there of numerous different outlooks who would be glad to accept her exactly the way she is. Don't ever change to suit your crowd, change your crowd to suit you.....
-
papawterry
Correct...
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I also agree with you, James.
-
-
-
arawngraalrd
HYPOCRACY - HYPOCRACY - HYPOCRACY * * * I'm pretty sure, that this congregation is steeped in such sin, that they feel it would be unchristian to expose it to the world. There is a story of Mar-A-Lago, that it was once a preservtge of the Dignified, and a place of irreproachable reupute, until Donald Trump, a New Yorker of Northern Habits, bought it and opened it to Negros and Jews; the Police were called, but could do nothing; Trump profited. I don't know how this congregation could be saved, but it's not my monkey, and miracles happen.
As to our lady of Public Adolescence, this is not the congregation for her.-
Robert A Stiff
Wait.....what?
-
-
Thom
When a person grows up in a church and as time goes on becomes "who they are", it can turn out to be difficult. It seems this girl is gay and wants to not only live with her church family but also her daily family. If one grew up Church of Christ (COC) they know how horribly homosexuals are looked down upon within this denomination, and many others. I am sure this girl felt quite guilty when she came out or when she was found out. But, to have a letter like this in your mailbox is just wrong.
Now, looking on the side of the COC church, it is their choice to believe what they want in the bible. I mean it does say living the homosexual lifestyle is wrong and they make sure everyone knows it. I find it funny as I know many COC people who are single and happy in the eyes of the COC but they are actually gay. Do they bring this out to anyone in their congregation? Nope. They live their daily life and their Sunday life differently.
The COC was wrong in sending the letter but, if this girl knew what the outcome was going to be and she felt she may change some hearts and mind then, she was wrong as well.
If she wants to live her life then she must leave that congregation and go find one who will accept her. I mean hell, the Methodist Church is going through a breakup over the whole gay member thing, along with the Episcopalians, Baptist, Unitarians and so on. Everyone is having to accept or deny the reality of homosexuals in our world and how it goes against the teachings of a book written so many years ago.
-
Kellie Michelle Taylor-White
But that statement "and how it goes against the teachings of a book written so many years ago" is part of the problem.
If we look at the TOTALITY of the books and chapters of the bible and not just a few words here and there that fit neatly into the braid of our political, social, and cultural/religious whips, homosexuality is addressed typically in the context of idolatry and religious practice, not within loving relationships. Additionally, homosexuality is NOT addressed in any harsher terms than other sins such as adultery, and pre-marital intercourse. So when we are in the process of educating the ignorant (often our peers) we need to be clear that if we are going to "swing the bible as our punishing whip", it is very likely to slash all in the area, not just the intended whipping boy.
And if we are not ejecting adulterous members (too many to count) and fornicators of all sorts (pretty much the rest), then we need not eject those who are simply living in a loving committed relationship (not being used in religious idolatry).
-
Thom
Then why have religion at all? Why have morals and ethics? Why not just have a do whatever you want lifestyle and not give a damn? The Bible is a guide book for the moral and ethical behavior of man. Take away all the magic and just get to the root, how does man treat themselves and others?
Now, if the homosexual lifestyle was so.......regular, then why do people still need to "come out"? Why are parents and even the person at times, so disgusted by the fact they are gay? Why? Because it is not normal. Now, you can go off and say I am one of those peers who must be educated but, I believe people are gay by an imbalance of hormones in their bodies. I also believe some woman are gay because it is safer and she may have been molested by a man at a young age.
I don't need educating, I live a wonderful life and I don't need to have the beliefs of others shoved down my throat. Now, you must also realize, if I don't agree with you, it does not make me wrong and you don't have to put a label on me for that reason. Just understand, not everyone will agree with you and we don't need to be educated.
-
-
-
Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Though I do not fully understand same sex attraction, I do accept it IS an important part of the folks who feel such, as they were born that way.
When my best friend "Came Out" to me in the Fall of 1979 at college, my question to him: "How does this change why we became friends?" We had a long talk and agreed it did not. 2 1/2 years later he was my Best Man when I wed my college sweetheart. His life partner was one of my ushers.
For me, one's sexuality IS NOT the most important part...intelligence, mutual interests, a manner I find a pleasure to experience..be yourself and think not to change for me.
I accept others as being their own person. I like to tink it is why my wife and I have been together over 43 years thus far.
My friend and his life partner have been together about 41 years thus far.
-
Michael Don Reynolds
Has a gay pastor I'm appalled by this church it is wrong to try and change a person's sin . We are all God's people and he did for all our sin. It does not matter if your black or white gay or straight. God loved us so much that he died and took all our sins away. The church should be a shame for the hateful letter they sent out. The bible says love the neighbor it does not say only if there not gay. I am appalled by this. I welcome all in the church no matter who you are or what you are.
-
JT of the plains
Is this the same Woodstock Church of Christ who had a pastor abusing children?
"A former pastor was charged with the child molestation of his granddaughter which occurred numerous times between 1991 and 1999. Sandy Springs Police investigators obtained warrants for the 86-year-old now North Carolina man.
Clarence Caldwell Arquitt Jr., of Sanford, NC, is charged on the warrants with molesting the victim from the time she was approximately 3 years old until she reached the age of 11."
https://patch.com/georgia/woodstock/former-woodstock-church-of-christ-pastor-charged-with3940a3e40b
-
Katherine Mary Moss
I particularly disagree with the idea of excommunication... in today's day and age, where we have learned a lot more about sexuality, and I hate to bring it up, but I have to in order for the argument to make sense, the divine feminine, there needs to be more tolleration of this sort ff thing. I could go into a lot, though I think I'll save that for a blog post of my own so that I don't ramble in the comments, but suffice it to say, there is a lot more here than whether or not a sin was committed.
-
Connie J. Spicer
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it interesting that the letter was only signed by elders and not by (or including) the pastor? Just wondering...
-
Paul Joseph
Telling someone to stop being homosexual makes as much sense as telling someone to stop being black.
-
Johnnie Roberte Lambert
Homosexuality is not a choice. it is part of being human.
-
Lionheart
"Church's say it's an act of love" Sounds a bit like shunning to me that JW's are famous for. That's religion for you I guess 🤷🏻♂️
🦁♥️
-
Clifford
When a chosen sexuality deviates from the core beliefs of procreation, which most churches uphold. As well as family values. Then I wouldn’t see it as hate at all. Quite the contrary.
-
The Rev. William C, Millhouse
It is not a choice
-
Gerardo Salazar
Of course it is not a choice but still today so many people believe otherwise and nothing you say will convince them; for them anybody who thinks differently is an enemy and thus must be eliminated.
-
-
Ilmenheru Terikson
Oh Clifford how far from the path you have fallen if that is how you think. Procreation and family, you mean breeding and tribalism 2 things that those humans who cling to the archaic traditions of are no better then vermin in human form. They certainly are not humans on the path to enlightenment to be sure.
Those who try to keep humans as lowly beast of burden in the service of their divine herdsman are the enemies of society and civilization.
You basically are espousing such anti social and anti civil attitudes Clifford as to justify someone invoking stand their ground if you said such to them in person.
-
-
Natalie
What ever happen to love your neighbor as you love thy self, And judge ye not lest ye be judged? The story of Sodom in Genesis 19 in reality is more about rape — sexual violence — than about homosexuality. In that truly horrific story, the men of Sodom demand that Lot send out his guests — messengers of G-d — so that they can rape them. That’s terrible, but even more horrific is Lot offering up his two virgin daughters to be raped instead. A plain reading of the story in no way condemns a loving, consensual, committed relationship between two adults. I don’t believe that most people who understand scripture in a different way and believe that homosexual practice is “incompatible with Christian teaching” are hateful and plain judgmental. and goes against G-D's word to love one another. I don’t believe that they intend to harm anyone. At the same time, I have heard from others their expressions of pain and the feelings of being considered as a person to be “incompatible with Christian teaching.” in Luke 14:26, “If anyone comes to me and does hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters — yes, even their own life — such a person cannot be my disciple.” And, what do we do with these words of Jesus in Luke 14:33? “…those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.” that we understand in context and do not follow: We wear jewelry, braid hair, and wear some pretty fine clothing, even though 1 Peter 3:3 says, “Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing.” We have our savings accounts, our investments, our 401K’s, even though Jesus said in Matthew 6:19, “Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal.” So my thoughts including myself.. We as a human race on this G-d Given earth need to clean up our own act before passing judgment on others, it is not our place to act as The Lord .. just pass his word and live the best we can. Oh and FYI I am a lesbian and I'm a jew. If I am wrong then I will pay the price for my sins not you ,and its not anyone's rights to tell me who I can or cannot love or live with.. last words.. We cannot lose sight of other really important matters on which we surely all agree. There are more than 2000 scriptures that deal with poverty — the poor, wealth and poverty, and social injustice. Jesus continues to call us — as he did the religious people of his day — to pay attention to “the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.” (Matthew 23:23). “You shall love the Lord your G-d with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Homosexuals gays lesbians transgenders intersexed etc are your neighbors try showing a little mercy and faith.. it may go a long way.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Who are these people who you think all agree with those 2000 scriptures you boast of, Natalie? Certainly not many of us ULC Ministers, who aren't Jewish or Christian. Atleast you didn't quote any of the bad ones, but the use of common sense tells decent people as much.
-
Val Jester
Everything you say is correct with the exception that they can tell you to leave their organization.
-
Val Jester
Everything you say is correct with the exception that they can tell you to leave their organization.
-
-
flugo
'Divorce is also a weighty sin.' Very poorly generalized expression. ALL divorce is NOT sin, for Scripture suggests sexual infidelity is a valid reason for divorce.. And 'weighty' is ambiguous. Who decides the 'weightiness' of sins?!
AND it is Biblical to disfellowship an unrepentant, overtly sinning member of the local church.
-
Woodrow
It is interesting that they resent her flaunting her life style. I am a born again person and I see things that aren't right for a church. They are full of resentment. RESENTMENT is defined by Webster's is sin and resent is to sin.
God's Love is the only way for people to change.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm a born again Pagan of the Wiccan variety, but a Natural Witch who was born that way, and have been out of the broom closet since I was very young and newly initiated. Ofcourse, Wiccans like me never fear death, and never turn the other cheek. And I've got plenty of room to erect crucifixes in my backyard, to help such fools better emulate Jesus. Closets are for the self-deprived, who seek the acceptance of those who they don't even approve of. That is self-defeating behavior. That doesn't mean we have to shout it from rooftops wherever we go, but don't deprive yourself of being yourself, and associate with those of your own kind, openly. These are the champions of the world, as the song goes. [I'm sure T Kosse can type the rest of it.]
-
Lionheart
Having eradicated my indoctrination of religion I’m a born again free-thinker, just as I was when I was born, until rubbish was drilled into my head about that jealous, infanticidal, slave loving, god of yours that you call love.
I’m just wondering how that “god is love” thing went down with those he drowned. That would have included little children, babies, and pregnant mothers.
Fortunately for us it’s just a story in an old book of myth, and tales.
By the way Woodrow, the stoning of people, still goes on even today. I saw a photograph recently in a newspaper of a black man buried in a pit up to his neck and people were stoning him. Have you ever seen human brains oozing out of a mans skull Woodrow? Your loving racist god condones stoning people to death. Anyway, carry on loving him if that is your desire. People used to love Hitler. They thought he was wonderful, just like you think your god is wonderful. They even made excuses for his atrocities, just like followers of your god still do.
🦁❤️
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I wonder what Lionheart will tell you about God's love, Woodrow. Did you know that God spelled backward is dog. Or does it mean good, orderly direction. The life of a dog might mean that as well.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That's only further proof that Webster wasn't perfect, or a supreme authority of the English language, which is always changing, "Thine own self saith to thee, in all sincerity."
-
-
Stewart
In the deep south small towns and cities the church has long been the center of family an social circles OH more importantly entertainment . Even today the monthly Sunday "so called fellowship " supper is King and anybody with a desire to be well known attends As one preacher likes to say only the real Christians are at every supper and singing " the touring gospel singers are hired to preform several times a year" .
If someone misses the gossip fly's its a place were you can join in talking about others and their faults specifically those not there to defend themselves .
reminds me of a old Ray Stevens song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16fG1sDagU ...
So much truth about most any organized center's of despise outsiders and hate anyone that doesn't toe their line .
-
robert
Hmmm well does anyone know what they call a lesbian divorce? A lickety split! With that said I can care less what someone’s private life is, it is no one’s business, perhaps she should have just kept it to herself instead of trying to stick her private life out to everyone? Just a thought
-
James Riggle-Johnson
I seriously doubt the person in question got up in front of the church and announced I am a lesbian. It's more likely that she lives her life like every other person. She probably walks down the street holding hands with her partner. She probably goes grocery shopping, out to dinner, to the local pharmacy, and God forbid, she might have gone to a church funtion together with her partner. It's not about flaunting her sexuality. It's about living your life like a normal person and that's what your being judged on. It's more about those in the church minding their own business. Just my thoughts.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I couldn't have said it as good as that, James C Riggle. I emphatically agree.
-
robert
I am sure she didn’t either BUT I am betting she laid her lifestyle right out there and as for vulgarity up tours you stick up witch it’s exactly your nasty attitude that got this woman ran out of her church! And to add being religious is not the way to go but spirituality is the key! And a sense of humor which by all indications you seem to lack! Have a wonderful day hypocrite!
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thanks Robert, for being another idiot for me to laugh at, on this blog. Don't take yourself too seriously. Nobody else does. And don't get worked up over these silly articles they give us to talk about. Talking about this stuff is a good way to kill time, and that's about all.
-
Ilmenheru Terikson
baby robert( I assume you are a baby since you chose to spell your name with a baby r) Your post is not humorous, merely bigotry wrapped in vulgarity wearing a thin sheet of infantile humor. Nothing about your post suggest you are a minister in good standing who grasps the duties and civil minded manner of one who seeks to help humanity on its path to enlightenment.
-
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Another thing that could be kept to oneself is the use of vulgarity, Robert, of which you won't find much approval of on this blog.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
As ULC Ministers we don't joke about others in hurtful or demeaning ways, Robert. That's not what Universal Life Church Ministries is about. We may kid around with eachother sometimes, but not in a hurtful or malicious way. Ministers are ethical people, regardless of our spiritual or religious paths. You might want to question your motives in choosing to minister, and how your ministering can be of benefit to those you minister to. We aren't just talking about the various topics they give us, like we do in A.A. meetings, but are actually ministering to eachother.
-
David Arthur Lewis
Hear, hear!
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Robert, in case you're interested in becoming a better minister, I suggest you study The Practice Of The Presence Of God, which you can purchase from the ULC Ministers bookstore. You might also reflect upon the quotes from Desiderata, which are always found at the bottom of the page of minister comments. These are tools which have helped me immensely, and continue doing so.
-
-
Gerardo Salazar
What a disgusting letter, full of bigotry and hate; if I were these people I would pray to God for not to judge me as harshly as I do judge others. To them I can only repeat the words of Jesus as they appear on Mathew 23 : 27 : Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Although I'm nothing like a Christian or Jewish I once heard a saying that seems to apply here, and is equal to it's karmic equivalent: Judge not lest ye be judged. Many of us of Wicca not only believe that what goes around comes around, but three fold!!! Believe it or not, the universe will level the playing field. Those Christian churches are doing themselves in, but are too stupid and hateful to realize it. Listen to The Fifth Dimension, for this is truly the dawning of the age of Aquarius. Blessed be!
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
She ought to become a ULC Minister, open her own church, and send letters to her former church and congregation telling them they aren't welcome until their clothes women have become good Christian lesbians, and have proven it to her, and her whole congregation of Christian lesbians, in whatever way they see fit. The men must attentively watch, and praise their Lord for saving them from their evil ways.
-
Val Jester
A church has an obligation and a right (recent Supreme Court ruling) to protect its organization from what the church considers to be harmful belief of practices. It does not matter a bit what outsiders think. Membership is voluntary. This lady appears to wanted a fight with her church. She got one.
-
Ilmenheru Terikson
Did you know ever since we have had several mass shooters start by demanding people bend knee and pray to god, and similar things, that if one attempts to force their faith upon or in any way seems angry, aggressive, or threatening such as threatening to harm one in any way physically or verbally, it justifies stand your ground being invoked? If someone comes up to me and says do you accept Christ as your savior or any such nonsense you can legally kill them where they stand.
The Sheriff of my town has made that very clear to the local missionary types and warned them that if they approach anyone and start pushing their beliefs as facts, we in a very proud to open carry rural western town can and will put them on the ground before we will kneel on it for their god.
Its honestly the only small silver lining I have yet to find has come along with the endless stream of mass shootings these last few years. I have not seen a mormon missionary or jehovahs witness on the streets or knocking on doors and that is a small but truly great thing.
Had this woman been smart she would of called and asked whoever was pushing this agenda to come to her home, and then just shot them and said the pos was getting violent with her because she would not submit to thier trying to force her to kneel and pray. Would of been entirely legal and would of made the rest of that group of fake christians in fear of something far more real than their false god.
-
Rev Mark D
Certainly possible. Everybody sells.
-
-
Richard Albert Heyse
All love is beautiful. That should be remembered. There should be no restrictions just respect for each other. To me it's just another case of putting up barriers that separate us instead of tearing them down as they restrict love and keep us apart
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
What about the love of evil, and destruction, Richard?
-
Albert J Staley
Biblicaly speaking how can you support or sympathize with a lesbian homosexual who is condemned by god for not being man with women and woman with man not man and man. Woman and woman witch is totaly against god and nature i totaly agree with the coc church in there actions in dis fellowshiping this sinner she should repent and praise god untill then she is and shall be anthema from christ coc did what every church should do to every homosexual found in their congregations
-
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
One good alternative for Christian lesbians and gay men is the gay Christian sect called Metropolitan Community Church. I believe the initials are MCCR.
-
Ilmenheru Terikson
Pff forget that I always encourage folks to tell Yaweh and his sheeple to flock off. I suggest Bacchus, now that is a god who knows how to party hard, and has 0 issue with you wanting to do whoever it is you want to do( though please lets keep things between consenting adults) with no hate and frankly encouragement to explore a wide variety of pleasures in ones life.
-
-
Rev Mark D
Guess it beats Saturday night with nothing to do.
-
Daniel Gray
"final warning" of sorts / vaguely threatening nature sounds like someone is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. First nobody forced this person to join the church, she did it all on her own. Secondly she already had to know their stand o homosexuality but she went to and joined it anyway. I have said it before and I will say it again, if you join a group or religion and then you demand they change their ways to fit your beliefs...then sorry there is the door and dont let it hit you on the way out. And then to try and claim that this is the final warning or that it is vaguely threatening just to get some sympathy goes to show how pathetic you really are.. There are hundreds of churches that fit you beliefs, why not just go to one of them and join instead of acting like a child with a filled pamper? the only people who are going to have any sympathy for you are the same whiners and criers who seemingly think that everyone should think the same way and do it or they will start calling names like that seemingly will hurt you, or are you going to start doxing the people who have the nerve not to believe the same thing you want them to?
-
Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Good, you're starting to ask questions now, Daniel child. Maybe that means you're starting to grow up.
-
Robin Hosking
It goes agaist the second greatest commandment that Jesus gave us in Matthew 22:39 which is to Love thy neighbour as thyself.
Heavenly Father is the God of Gods and he alone can pass judgement all he asks of us is to forgive and love not to ostracize others and make them feel unloved or unwelcomed. Everyone has to repent for wrongs they have done. Jesus said let him who is without sin cast the first stone. We have to remove the beam that is in our own eye to see clearly the will of Heavenly Father.
Love is Love, if it is not hurting anyone then we all need to live and let live. Again we are to forgive and love one another not judge and comdemn other.
Heavenly Father is a God of Love not Hate. We are born to Love we are not born to hate. We are taught to hate. Maybe we judge because we fear what we do not unerstand and what we lash out agaist is really what we do not like about ourselfs. Everyone needs to start looking inward and analyzing themselfs before passing judgements on others.
Only Heavenly Father can judge and it is said that how you judge is how you will be judged. When you pass judgement you are actually hurting your eternal soul, yourself and you are binding Gods hands from saving your soul.
-
flugo
'roshel hilling': WRONG on two major points!
'God is a God of love, not hate'. NO! He HATES many classes of people: the wicked in Psalm 10:31, 11:5, 5:5, 7:11, Proverbs 6:19. His WRATH is hovering over unbelievers in John 3:36; Romans 1:18.
Only the Heavenly Father can judge. NO! Jesus told us to judge in John 7:24 and to rebuke in Luke 17:13. In I Corinthians 2:14,15 the spiritual person is told to judge.
To avoid further embarrassment, you'd do well to do your homework, instead of posting drivel.
-
-
JT of the plains
Is this the same church?
"Former Woodstock Church of Christ Pastor Charged with Child Molestation The victim, now in her 20's, contacted Sandy Springs Police and subsequently met with investigators in early August of this year.Posted Fri, Sep 23, 2011 "A former pastor was charged with the child molestation of his granddaughter which occurred numerous times between 1991 and 1999. Sandy Springs Police investigators obtained warrants for the 86-year-old now North Carolina man.
Clarence Caldwell Arquitt Jr., of Sanford, NC, is charged on the warrants with molesting the victim from the time she was approximately 3 years old until she reached the age of 11...."
-
Linda Salavarria
OH DEAR GAWD! Evangelicals are going the way of the dinosaur. When there are increasing populations, mostly comprised of young people, who roll their eyes at the mention of your name and your ridiculous, judgemental postures on the lives of others (like in this letter), it's time to re-evaluate your motives and ethics - or go into your well deserved obscurity. It's coming...
-
Nicholas J Page
As a minister my self in the UK I have never come across this intoreable behaviour God loves every body No race or sexualities I have never read about it in the Bible.I say find another church who will not judge and will welcome you with open arms. whatever your sexuality God Bless you in achieving this
-
flugo
'nicage': Minister? And you're ignorant of the Bible?! Where God hates the wicked; Psalm 10:31; 11:5; 5:5; Proverbs 6:19;. He's angry every day of the wicked Psalm 7:11; His wrath hovers over the unbeliever Romans 1:18.
You'd do well to do your homework before incurring further embarrassment with such shoddy posts!
-
-
HRH. Prince Richard of Judah
No it is not a matter of sexuality but a perversion by satan and evil. To use birth as a ‘born this way’ excuse is nothing more than a feeble attempt to deflect deviant corrupted behavior as something that is out of their control. It is quite clear that sexual relationships between same sex is ‘unnatural flesh’ which angers GOD and sinful. Unclean souls that engage in unrepentant deviant behavior are not fit to be in GODs presence and will not be allowed in either His Kingdom of Heaven nor His New Jerusalem here on Earth. Yahweh as a loving, caring God already has a place set aside for these unclean souls...
-
Robert A Stiff
You are seriously sick-minded.
-
-
Joseph Ecker
How dare they think that they have the Power to hurt this young woman this way. Only our Lord can judge our lives here on earth! Life is just one big Learning experiement! These people have become so all consumed w trying to be perfect that the devil is at work overtime in their minds and soul! Condeming or judging her is not Gods way! They are wrong! God don’t make imperfect people! Who you love is a gift from God himself! And I doubt that she will come running back to these wholier than thou HIPPOCRITES. We are all SINNERS. No one has the right to judge her NO ONE!! I’m not gay but I know my God Loves each and every one of us! Shame on all who claim to be perfect and cast stones upon the vulnerable and our innocent children! There’s lots of beautiful Church communities in the world that will embrace you and accept you as you are! God Bless you and may you have a Beautiful Happy Life! I’m so Sorry that these over zealous sinners have sought you out to hurt you! Don’t let them and hon live your best life w all your heart and soul.”GOD LOVES ALL HIS CHILDREN” God Bless you sweet girl! 🌹🌹🙏🏻✝️♥️♥️
-
Lionheart
So, Joseph, just a couple of things on your statements “God don’t make imperfect people” and also your “God loves all his children”. Isn’t he the one that killed little children due to his anger management issue with the imperfect Pharaoh, when he could have sorted Pharaoh out in a much more moralistic way.
Isn’t he also supposed to be the God that drowned little children, and more than likely, pregnant mothers, along with everyone else apart from that drunkard Noah?
Isn’t he the God that condoned slavery saying that slaves (that supposedly he loves) can be beaten as long as they don’t die in the first two days?
Isn’t he the loving God that supports crushing people’s skulls with stones until their brains ooze out of their cranium?
Isn’t he the loving God that, if he wanted to, could cure all little children dying of cancer?
I’m sorry Joseph, but you have been conned by your pathetic infanticidal, genocidal, immoral, mythical God.
Joseph, it really is time for you to wake up, use logic, reason, and critical thinking, throw that stupid old book away, stop talking to the wall, floor, or ceiling with your hands held together, and smell the roses 🌹🌹
🦁❤️
-
-
Danny Charles Jones
As a Christ follower, the term Christian is used way to much. Just because someone goes to church does not indicate their salvation in Christ Jesus. Satan and the demons of hell know Christ and even know who he is. The Bible is the truth and infallible word of God. Know the word of God and you will know the truth. Through Christ Jesus salvation is our only course of truth and any variation of that are lies. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. We can't pick and chose out of the Bible what we believe or don't believe. Trying to make God who we as sinners want Him to be, is idolatry. God's grace is what allows our salvation through His Son Jesus Christ.
-
Lionheart
Absolute rubbish, but thank you for your thoughts and telling us what you believe to be true all because you’ve read something in an old book. You are aware, right…..that there is no demonstrable evidence any god is real, or has ever existed? Stories and tales in books, handed down and written by people many years later, who never met those being written about, is not evidence of anything. Do you believe everything you read without evidence? What evidence do you have that the Bible is truth, especially with all of its inaccuracies. How have you determined which of those inaccuracies are true, and which aren’t, and why are there inaccuracies if your book us truth?
🦁❤️
-
-
Michael G Woram
There are many levels of sociopathy to be found in society. At its worst, a person hates nearly everyone without restraint. But in lighter versions the hatred is mitigated by an awareness that such feelings are destructive and socially undesirably. Some solve this problem for themselves by finding hatreds that they can tart up as being in the service of God. Thus they get to act out their hatreds while feeling pious at the same time. For them it's win-win.
-
James Lynn Jones
W W J D ?
-
Cynthia Wilson
Having performed a wedding for my gay step daughter I can honestly say it was a ceremony of love. Now having said that I had mentioned this to one of my church members and her comment back to me was " I dont like that?" That's fine but my come back was "Aren't you divorced and remarried?" Which is still sin. You dont make that choice to say oh I want to be gay. My full heart I believe you are born who you are, you cant change it, pray it away, wash it away or hide it. So that being said I do pray for this church and other church's like it .
-
Donna Mayotte
Self Righteousness is the greatest sin of all; it blinds us to the Truth
-
Stephen Vincent Kochjar JR
It also clearly states in the Holy Bible (Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.)
So, who chooses what is to be followed and what is ignored?
Homosexuality is a mental illness and just because one can't admit this doesn't change a thing.
People need to start holding themselves accountable once again for their actions and stop blaming everything but themselves.
Also hating on these people is wrong as well so in that respect ( Judge not lest ye be judged ).
-
Janet W Oakes Jackson
What happen to judge not and ye shall not be judge, He who is without sin cast the first stone, and love thy neighbor. I can go on and on. This a church I would not walk into. Gay friends deserve the best as any person in any walk of life. Shame on that so call church. They have forgotten the meaning of the word love, one's sexuality has nothing to do with the church. Look at all the sins pastors have done, I guess foracation and stealing and pedfile is ok with this church is ok, but God help those who love another human being of the same sex, gee I am so confused by this church I would never join in this church. This has made me so mad I can't think straight. I love my gay friends. I think this church is hiding something.
-
Richard Lee Cornell
Wonder if their 501 (c) (3) with its words in their By Laws stated that " no one can be in the church if they are gay". If not then a law suit could be forth coming. A challenge could also put their church non-profit status in question. The IRS ruling could bring forth the IRS for back taxes, as well as the State and County and city.
-
Tirone B. Brooks
As many of you I am troubled by the letter and as a christian I am reminded by the Word of God to love, I believe that she should NEVER be asked to change or leave, that in NO way is going to win her or others.
Love is the key, accept her as she is and allowe Christ via the Holy Spirit to make the changes in His time, NOT ours; now she cannot lead in any ministry in the church if she is living as a lesbian, becuse the Bible clearly indicates that it IS a sin, but we must love her NO MATTER WHAT! be attentive to her spiritual, emotional and any other need that she presents.
As long as she is attending service, reading the Word etc, etc. there is hope.
T. Brooks
-
Tirone B. Brooks
Read the bible, NOT only seeking what you want to see, but cover everything and God will speak to you if your open.
-
Mary A. Deal
I don’t feel God gave us this responsibility to judge. God created us before we were in the womb and knew us before we knew ourselves. There are so many Sin Breakers in this world, how can we pick and choose the one that doesn’t work for us? I believe what the Word teaches us and its not my job to feed anyone what I think is right or wrong. Who am I to convince someone to lie in public and not be true to themselves? God created each and everyone of us! This is the type of thing that keeps people from accepting Jesus Christ into their life!!
-
William Francis Foley
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. In other words, no person is perfect. If they were, then Christ died in vain. Furthermore, Christ came to save the unsaved, not the self righteous. Christ did not say to Mary Magdalene, to get away from me, you whore.To say one has faith, is not enough. Faith without actions, which include acceptance and love, is dead. The tongue is a mighty weapon. It can be used to build up a person, or tear them down. To those who sent that negative letter, I say, :Shame on you. Where is your love?:You are one who needs to repent of your vicious attack, which is not of God. It is people like you, who give a bad name to true Christianity. Revenge is mine,sayeth the Lord. He will avenge.
-
Lionheart
And there, ladies and gentlemen, you have the words of emotional, and religious, blackmail, to keep the flock following where they want them. If there ever was a Satan that binds you from freedom it’s right there in those words.
Get thee behind me William.
🦁❤️
-
-
Frederick Ollie Aldridge
In 1969 I became an ordained minister in one of the mainline church organizations. I believed in what I was taught then, I soon found out you can't make a decent living serving in small churches with congregations and attitudes that prevailed during the 20's and 30's. So I kept on working regular jobs and serving the Lord by preaching in different churches when the regular preachers needed some time. I told the congregations about what the Lord tried to tell us in the Bible. If they didn't like it I knew that they got what they needed and NOT what they wanted. No one can serve the Lord doing and saying what the congregation "wants". In case of the lady who was committing sin, the congregation should have been teaching her about the lord. Instead they were saying do as "I" say or else.
-
Rev Ned
I wonder if they kick out all those who commit “abominations”. You know those things listed in Leviticus, eating fish without scales (shrimp, lobster, catfish), wearing banned cloth garments, getting tattoos, etc.
-
Joseph Ray Evans
Homosexuality is wrong, but i wouldn't kick em out of church cus it is not our place to judge anyone. That's Gods job...I would encourage them to come to church and hopefully God will show them they're wrong and their wrong doing..so the will repent...but it is wrong to shun anyone from the word of God...that's not our place...
-
Rex Rowe Lippold
Judge NOT lest ye be judged, Father in Heaven's children are his children regardless of their sins, he loves us regardless, to counsel is one thing, but to publicly humiliate your members is bad practice in any congregation, Love thy Neighbor.
-
HRH. Prince Richard of Judah
You remember that answer and say that to GOD when you stand before Him just before you’re tipped through that gateway to Hell.
-
Lionheart
I see you have been reading that book again. If anyone stands before anyone it will be him standing before me answering for his pathetic atrocities, especially towards children. He’s the most pathetic immoral mythical god there is.
🦁❤️
-
HRH. Prince Richard of Judah
To think yourself higher than Yahweh makes you as deluded as the one you follow. It is satan the fallen lucifer that murders and corrupts in this world. The evils are on him and his followers doing his will. You clearly do not believe Yahweh to be mythical or you show madness to rant so about His very real existence. And neither confuse His Love and gift of freewill to all as weakness, it allows weak people like yourself the choice to burn in Hell.
-
Lionheart
Nah, I don’t think so. If anything is going to a form of Hell it’s your god. Don’t forget that he’s the one, according to your lovely Bible, that killed little children. That’s something I wouldn’t do, so in my mind that makes my morals greater than your god.
As I am obviously far more superior, moralistically, than your murderous God, you may worship me at anytime, just let me know, and I won’t require you to speak to a wall floor or ceiling because I doubt I will be there, just like your mythical God isn’t. On the positive side, I can prove I am real, which is something your God is obviously not capable of doing.
If you think your god is real, tell him to come and see me in the next 24 hours, so that I can punch him on the nose. Why am I starting to think that’s not going to happen? Could it be that it’s because he is not real?
🦁❤️
-
-
-
-
Alice Coy
I’m sorry for the person that will be pushed out of GODS HOUSE. I also apologize for the way she’s being treated. No it’s not my church but it’s my God so I would never treat her that way. We as people have no right to judge anybody.If you can’t invite everyone to GODS HOUSE you shouldn’t be there either. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED FOR THE WAY YOU ARE TREATING THIS PERSON. We are all god children!!!!
-
Lionheart
Try telling “we are all gods children” to the men, women, and children, your mythical God is supposed to have killed, Alice. Where was his love for them then? What’s your apologetic reasoning behind him killing actual children?
You are the one that should be ashamed for supporting such a jealous, infanticidal, genocidal, immoral bully, that you like to call God, and no doubt worship. He’s conned you, just like Hitler conned the people of Germany that followed him. He was just as genocidal as your God. Well……not quite as genocidal as your God, but I’m sure he could have been, if he hadn’t been stopped.
🦁❤️
-
flugo
'aloy': WRONG in two major assertions!
We are NOT all God's children! John 1:12,13 believers only 'sons of God'' John 8:42, 44 unbelievers NOT children of God!
We DO have a right to judge! John 7:24 Jesus told us to judge; Luke 17:13 we are told to 'rebuke'; I Corinthians 2:14,15 the spiritual person is to judge.
To avoid further embarrassment, you'd do well to do your homework before posting such drivel.
-
-
Donald John Reynolds
i was also excommunicated from the lds church because i saw one of them at an underground bar/meeting place and was terrified he was going to be found out.. so he told the bishop i was gay. next thing i know i was judged by the bishop and was told to repent and i would be forgivin who do these people think they are
-
Alexander Clarke
Typical of the hate that spews from organized religion. Religion = hate. It is as simple as that.
-
Jeremy Todd Staples
No, no, no, no, and more now. I absolutely wholeheartedly 100% disagree with any such treatment of anybody who is pursuing their relationship with Christ, in fellowship with others. In my humble opinion, or to my understanding of what Jesus himself was teaching in the pages of the New Testament, it almost seems as though that would be the very last resort that anyone could possibly consider. I would say, that I am quite thankful that Jesus did not see it that way. He did not tell your teachers to turn our backs on anybody seeking, for they will find. It’s not our responsibility to manipulate or anything of the sort, somebody’s relationship, personally, with Christ. It’s almost as though our human pride or insecurities seem to drive such actions. To me, this is quite obvious. Jesus gives us so many examples in the New Testament of the exact opposite behavior. It is always bothered me when people focus on somebody’s sexuality specifically homosexuality, when that is only one sexual sin. I would be quite surprised if Every other member of the church could say that they were not guilty of sexual encounters out of wedlock at some point in their life or could cast any stone whatsoever. So that was just one example of what Jesus taught from his actual actions not only his words. I wish we knew what he drew in the sand. And he was one more I will leave you with, and that is that it sure seems as though there are possibly a few too many members of that particular congregation who haven’t noticed the plank in their eyes. Nobody, that one, is righteous amongst us. There was only one that is. Our Lord Jesus Christ. He has taught us to except people, he meet us where we are, and he never leaves or for sake’s us. Just told us to love our enemies. And I hardly see somebody’s sexual preference is something that would deem them An enemy. So if we’re supposed to even love our enemy, how could you treat somebody in your same congregation, without love. And I’m certainly not buying this “tough love” thing. No way. We have to love our God all of our heart, along with the love our neighbor. It Doesn’t seem to love your neighbor, only if they meet our interpretation expectations or otherwise. We are to love one another.
-
Christian
If you do not enjoy your church, buy or build a new one for yourself and all those that want to join with you. It is a 'free' country, but file very early and get help forming your 501(c) religion nonprofit LLC, free from high taxes.
-
Angel
Churches are nothing buta social club. Follow the rules or leave. Not saying I agree with their beliefs, but just like any other club, you join a club because you all share something in common, if you don't share it, no point in staying. Besides. God doesn't live in a church, or a rulebook, he lives in the heart. It's not God you have to leave, just the social club.
-
Rev Ned
Their church’s favorite hymn goes, 🎼 Jesus loves me, but He can’t stand you.
-
Drea Jeffries
Imagine being chastised by "elders" who claim to be christian, yet punish anyone who doesnt conform to their standards. Weak minded old fools with no clue about the true message of christianity.
-
Karsten S. A. Johansson
For all have sinned and fell short of the glory of God.
We just cherry pick which ones we like to hang out with on the weekend.
Mark 10 has a lot to say about divorce. It says nothing about homosexuality. Some churches need to find better cherries to pick.
When did Christian churches forget what Jesus stated so clearly upon his crucifixion?
Being ejected from your church is not a religious problem; one can worship anywhere. The problem is the social entanglements that go with church membership. I am a long time ULC minister having performed my Sacerdotal duties for more than forty years in Park City, Utah. When the Legislature legalized same sex marriage I was honored to join together two of my dearest friends in the sacred bonds of matrimony. Sometimes, sadly, religion and worldly needs conflict. Stay true to yourself: you will find a home of comfort.
This home of comfort is only our physical home. The church is more concerned with our spiritual eternal home which the LGBTQ community is in peril of never ever seeing!!!
But their objection speaks directly to her physical preferences. In our spiritual eternal home, will gender matter? Are there male souls and female souls that should only seek out the opposite, or will all souls live together in love? As Rev. Hurd indicated, she can find a home of physical comfort here and a home of eternal comfort with God. God still loves her. Although he may have a few choice words to say to that congregation.