A group of Christian activists sparked controversy when they travelled to a sacred Native American site and held a ceremony to cast away “dark energy” they claimed was present. The incident led to a showdown between the Christians and Native Americans who attempted to interrupt the ceremony.
The Christian group, led by Dave Daubenmire of Pass the Salt Ministries, arrived at the Great Serpent Mound in Southern Ohio on the winter solstice. It is the largest effigy mound in the world, a National Historic Landmark as designated by the Department of the Interior. The site is thought to be at least 1,000 years old, and is home to numerous ancient burial grounds.
When Native American activists met the unwelcome visitors in the parking lot, things got heated.
Dark Energy?
“Serpent Mound is an internationally known National Historic Landmark built by the ancient American Indian cultures of Ohio and is on the U.S. Tentative List for possible World Heritage inscription by UNESCO,” according to Ohiohistory.org.
The effigy mound – shaped like a serpent – is flanked by burial mounds from both the Fort Ancient and Adena cultures. It is a site many in the Ohio Native American community hold sacred, although visitors from all faiths and cultures visit each year.
That willingness to share their culture with all might have bitten the Ohio Native American community in the butt, so to speak. On December 20th, Christian minister Dave Daubenmire led a group of mostly maskless Christian activists to the site, to pray away the dark “Satanic” energy he believes is coming from the Serpent Mound.
As the group began their prayer to rid this site of "dark energy," they were confronted by Philip Yenyo, executive director of the American Indian Movement of Ohio, and other tribal members.
“You have no right and no business doing this on this sacred site where our ancestors are buried. It’s our birthright.”
But the unwelcome visitors didn't give up without a fight – literally. The incident soon turned into a shoving and shouting match. “This land will be taken in the name of Jesus,” one of the Christians yelled.
Thankfully, the altercation didn't turn violent.
Disrespecting a Sacred Site
The group of Christians ultimately did pray at the mound, with at least one member attempting to climb atop the mound itself. However, their prayers were met with chants from the Native Americans who objected to their presence. The Cincinnati Enquirer interviewed both Yenyo and Daubenmire last week.
Yenyo said what Daubenmire and the other Christians did was just blatantly disrespectful. “It would be like me going into a church and doing my ceremonies in [their] church,” he said. "It's a sacred site for us, but other people with other faith beliefs think they have the right to go there and do their ceremonies. In our opinion, they don't."
But Daubenmire believes that he was apparently doing the world a public service. “There's a series of mounds like this all across the midwest. We believe that these are, for lack of a better term, we believe these are dark places… We went there to pray over this area. We believe the dark side holds ceremonies on these days."
With basically the whole altercation recorded by both sides, there is no shortage of video evidence to examine.
What do you think? Do Christians have the right to enter a native site and perform ceremonies? Or did the group overstep its bounds?
170 comments
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Donald J. Winfield
There seems to be a fundamental incongruity associated with too many so-called "Christian" cults. Jim Jones was a "Christian." David Koresh was. "Christian." These idiots trying to interfere with ancient Native American burial sites are, as usual, self-richtious zealots. The Indians should be left alone. I'm sure the interlopers would be very unhappy if Native Americans interfered with their rituals.
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Alysia Ecker
Why would they do this! Why would there be any Darkness there in this beautiful resting ground? They really must be dilutional at the power they believe they possess! The Great Father and his chosen people were here long before any of us! And these fake attempts to get attention from the media is ridiculous. What they did do is bring lots of darkness and unwanted attention home w them but not from the Native burial ground! It’s whats fueling their idiocy w all these ceremonies they try to perform. It’s like playing with a Oiuga board/ you attract bad energy from places you’ll wish you never opened a portal too! And won’t be able to close!! We all stand before our Spiritual God/Leader and pay for what we have done here in this life when we pass on! And These beautiful Native People need you to go home and deal w your own demons! Leave their Resting place ALONE!!
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Susanna Elaine Harding
Dark, bright, or purple. It's not their mound, or their energy.
They need to leave it alone.
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Roger Scott Gilbert
Mess with the ancient serpent energy and you will get what you deserve! Laughs! These so-called Christians are mental midgets! The serpent mound represents millennia old knowledge and wisdom from the universe, and an ancient migratory pattern. The serpent has nothing to do with the Christian's fictional made up devil,,quite the contrary! The serpent was always considered sacred by the worlds ancient belief systems. Only the Hebrews, Islamist's and the Christians made it something bad. Oh and while we are at it who committed genocide on the indigenous of this land,, who's history dates back 12,000 years! The Christians,,that's who..scourge of the earth!
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Julie Lehmkuhl
The Christian group over stepped. They would never allow such activity in their own sanctuary. This is the type of arrogance that leads to wars. It deeply offended me that this group was so disrespectful. Their behavior screams of anti Christian mentality. They are not God and only He can judge
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Richard Lee Cornell
Is this like digging up old Indian burial grounds until it is the Indians who decide to dig up those Christian graveyards in what is now consider ghost towns.
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Ketchakah Michael Winters
Well, This hits awful close to home. My ministry is intended to bridge the gap between American Indians and the Dominant culture. This sort of thing sets my work back years. Its disrespect like this that is the reasons why Native peoples have problems with Christianity.
People need to learn respect and to use the different paths of The Creator to bring us all together not drive further apart. Its likely a whole generation of American Indians will be negatively influenced by the actions of this group.
Its very sad. Ketchaka Medicine Hoop Ministries.
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Valerie Van Haltern
Heartbreaking - the ignorance - disrespect - prejudice - "White Man" has destroyed and taken ever since he has come to North America - time for "white man" to heal themselves, revisit their sins upon Indigenous peoples and Mother Earth - the raping of humans and land, the taking of sacred objects - the killing of all Creator has given us to preserve as caretakers of these gifts - Ignorance will always be around it is how we deal with it - how we stand in our power and continue to guide the good way forward - "white man and white man mentality" do not belong on the few sacred places left - unless they are invited and then they are to honor and respect ..... Our ancestors, our lineages have suffered again and again - the oppressor, the ignorant ones cannot destroy our hearts, our souls, our connection to Creator and Mother Earth. We have sacred stories -that have existed long before "White Man" came.
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Adrian Perez
Absolutely disgusting. They should've been physically thrown out the way their Jesus threw out the merchants in the temple. Of course christianity is a hostile religion, didn't Constantine say "In hoc signo vinces"? This is just one small way it plays out.
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Doctor Loyal
The person's that did this were rude, crude, and socially unacceptable. Do these people invade Buddhist Temples, Hebraic Synagogues, or any other religion's holy sanctuaries? The bottom line here is mutual respect for other religions. Christian desecration of another religion's Holy places is simply disgusting. We no longer live in the Middle Ages, and who gave these zealots permission to start their own Inquisition?
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John Camp Bernay III
Resurrection was invented long before Christians. There had been many religions that had a god who died and resurrected periodically. Various rites of sacrifice were related to the resurrection of one or another god and the offerings – usually domestic animals – were frequently eaten by the participants of the mysteries.
Did not Jesus Christ imagine his death and resurrection in a similar way – that he would resurrect in his disciples who would have eaten his flesh and would have drunk his blood? According to ‘Saint’ John, Jesus Christ explained: ‘The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him’. (John, 6, 56; italics are mine, G.Š.) The Eucharist
Having assumed that the first Eucharist was not symbolic, but real and took place not before Christ’s death, but on the following night, the ritual itself appears in a completely different light – it is clear now how the rite managed to unite Christians.
After all, nothing has such power of uniting people as a common secret or crime. When people have performed religious rituals that others consider to be inhuman or even criminal, they feel initiated, special different from others.
Even now, the Eucharist remains one of the basic rituals that maintain Christian unity. Eating together the imaginary god’s flesh can be also called ‘communion’ – metaphoric acceptance to the community of the Christians who have already performed the ritual or further acceleration of the sense of being one of the Christians. Inclination towards passive cannibalism is psychologically possible
It is no secret that Jesus Christ was not a psychically balanced personality. The absence of information about one’s biological father was considered by the ancient Jews to be an irremovable stain, and there is a lot of information in the Bible about the eccentricity of Christ that manifested itself already in his childhood.
Therefore, it is quite possible that Jesus Christ could wish to be eaten. Even nowadays, there are some people who crave to be eaten; even the broad public from time to time is informed of some individual cases of pre-agreed cannibalism – when the ‘victim’ finds their future eater via the Internet or so. It is possible that Jesus Christ also had such a drive. The Christian cannibalistic mysticism is apparently still encouraging psychological deviations
Various myths about vampirism are widespread among Christians; films about cannibals, blood-suckers and similar heroes are most popular in the places where the Christian culture is dominating. There are so many maniac killers and violent perverts among Christians as nowhere else in the world; again and again in the Christian world there emerge people who want to be eaten.
Are not those cases reverberations of the ‘Last supper’? – Most Christians constantly take part in religious rituals that willy-nilly are associated with cannibalism, so they can traumatise some oversensitive persons for the rest of their lives.
So, there are many serious arguments that support the hypothesis that Jesus Christ was eaten after his crucifixion. If it is proved or at least accepted as a very probable one, much can be understood and explained in the Christian faith, psychology and in the whole Christian culture.
Perhaps it could also be helpful in understanding the inhuman historical cruelty of Christians – in understanding why the millions of decent people who found the Christian ‘communion’ unacceptable were killed in cold blood, tortured to death or burnt alive during the long history of Christianity?
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Richard Conte
Sounds like Dave Daubenmire is walking in the footsteps of the priests that destroyed the written artifacts belonging to the Maya, Inca, & Aztec cultures. They claimed their knowledge of good and evil allowed them to designate what should be destroyed. Looks like they need to learn the golden rule.
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Angel
It's not owned by the Tribe, and if they were allowed on the property, so long as they aren't destroying anything, let them pray to to their little hearts content....
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Rev Ned
CINOs. (Christian In Name Only). There seem to be a lot of them.
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Albert Douglas DuBois
There are no dark places, just dark people. Shame on them.
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Katherine L Bell
Well said!
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Sheila Vickery Jensen
Well said Master Wolf. One should never over step boundaries and think the only right belief is yours alone. Judge not lest ye be judged.
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Glenn Kenneth Smeaton
In pre christian times, invading nations would visit an alter devoted to a deity with similar characteristics to their own as many gods and goddesses of other countries had similarities. They would always be completely respectful in these cases. What this "christian" group did mirrored the exeptions who were not praying or worshipping but desecrating and destroying. Aren't we all supposed to learn from our history to do what's right?? Maybe they need to read their own bible again!!
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
I have been reading many Daniel Gray comments on this issue as well as others. When you have someone who loves to put down everyone else, the best way is not to respond to any of his comments. Let him talk to himself, because he is probably the only one that will listen. Let him go on and on, but just don't reply or even read is messages. That will kill the kick he gets out of his combativeness.
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Scott Anthony Collin
Not cool! As an Aboriginal North American I stand with my Native brothers and sisters. Disrespecting our ways, means we don't have to respect thiers. Until they apologize and stop desecration of our Sacred sites there can be no forgiveness nor understanding. We pray differently but to the same Creator they need to understand that. Until they do they are in the wrong. We don't go into thier places of worship and do our ceremonies.
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Lisa Michelle Ceal
Bumper sticker I saw near my work... "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
I am a true American melting pot mutt. English, Irish, Scottish, Spanish, and Cherokee. I was raised in a very middle of the road midwestern type protestant/evangelical Christian belief system. Parted ways with much of that in my teen years as I became better acquainted with Eastern philosophies, various Native and Pagan beliefs, and others. And because I suddenly one day realized that I believed in that system not necessarily because I really believed it, but because I was not given a choice to believe it, I was raised in it, was not given a choice, did not know there was a choice, did not know there were other systems to choose from. I believed it because it was given to me to believe it, not because I made an educated choice for myself. I've seen videos of young boys being indoctrinated and forced to repeat the Koran over and over in a language they do not speak and it makes me think of what happened to me. Not that it was ever forced on me per se, it was just what my family believed, and was raised in, and so therefore was I. My God-given right to Free Will had been taken from me and I didn't even know it was happening because I was too young to know.
While I have come to understand the validity of many religions I do still feel that most of the teachings of Christ are still quite valid, even for other religions. Charity, mercy, pity, generosity, love, compassion, kindness, brotherhood, tolerance, humility, etc. So many of those who call themselves Christians unfortunately use different tools.... Anger, fear, distrust, doubt, intolerance, discrimination, suspicion, selfishness, etc, My Grandmother would say that these are the tools of Satan, not of Christ, and they have willingly made themselves his tools.
Since I was very young, I have always been appalled by the complete unmitigated gall that anyone would consider themselves so superior or having the ear of any god enough that it would give them the right to subjugate, steal, and destroy the lives of other people. The entire concept of Manifest Destiny that set off the exploration of this country and others in the New World and resulting in the destruction of millions of people and their ways of life simply because they were different is so abhorrent to me that I cannot even describe its magnitude. And English has over 3 million words!
I find it particularly disturbing that these people have forgotten that a major impetus for the early settlers of this country was about finding religious freedom. That means everyone's religion, not just yours. Or no religion if you choose it. I am a firm believer in the concept of the ULC that everyone should have the right to worship or not worship as they see fit. But freedom as so many of these people define it does not exist. No one is free to hurt or destroy others. My right to punch you in the nose stops where your nose starts. Freedom comes with two major caveats. Vigilance and Civic Responsibility. You can only be as free as you want as long as it does not bring you into conflict with the rest of humanity. You must have consideration for everyone else, not just your own selfish desires.
For those perhaps misguided Christians I point them to the following: Gal 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called to liberty, only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as yourself."
1 Cor 8: 9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of your's become a stumbling block to them that are weak.
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy strength and with all your mind; and thy neighbor as thyself."
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter unto the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity.
And of course there are the passages about judge not lest ye be judged, and glass houses....
In Buddhism energy is energy, it is only negative or positive if you choose to believe it is, and people will use it as they will, what is important is your intent, and how you choose to use it.
We can only hope/pray/hold the intent that these people will do some major navel introspection and clear out that which does not serve them or the rest of humanity at large well.
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Brandon Stone
Mankind exists for one reason for the perfection of unconditional love nothing more. We tend to forget that these days when we need it most. People killing, people dying, children hurting even crying, can we practice what we preach, let us turn the other cheek, father father father help us send some guidance from above, people got me got me questioning where is the love? How can someone take land "in the name of Jesus" doesnt everything already belong to Jesus? My brother died very young at age 32 and my mother keeps a little sacred place on her piano for him if a stranger came in to disrupt vandalise or spew venom at the sacred place I would have to lay "hands" on said stranger. Those "Christians" are nothing more than bullies, and thieves. That is exactly what god doesn't want. LOVE THY FELLOW MAN!! Idiots
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Juan Rolón Rosario
NO, under no circumstances should that be done. They have the right to perform their ancient ceremonies. If I want respect for myself then I must show respect for others. The Christians did wrong. What would happen if the opposite happened and some group decided to enter a Christian cult and tried to interrupt them with the excuse that according to their beliefs something was wrong and that cult dedicated to Jesus had to end. I'm just saying that you must respect different beliefs, because Christians acting like this will only make enemies and that is not the idea. Don't use the name of Jesus to do negative things, I don't think God likes that. or if?
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Phillip Konstantine Case
Just reading this is so disturbing.
No one has the right to do something against another person nor their faith, beliefs and especially as this is a Sacred Burial ground .
So does showing Christianity give you the right to commit violence ? No !
We are all currently facing a huge battle worldwide and at this point in time we should all be United, not fighting. Although the Tribal leaders were pushed into this position by the arrogant, ignorant individuals whom are extremely disrespectful to the Sacred Land.
As pointed out by another person the Native Americans have been fighting for their lives, rights for a very very long time and in all history books you can see clearly this abuse has caused the most damage.
I’m completely disgusted by this action and the people that instigated it should be held accountable .
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SensibleSam
This is entitlement and white privilege, not faith. Seems white supremacists groups claim Christianity as final truth then weaponize it. I don't practice Christianity, why are they so violent and quick to raise a hand when you point out how they are twisting the faith to fit thier narrative? When you try to reason you're always wrong? This is why many young people shun the faith today. Because of the antiquated, oppressive and dangerous views being spouted by a vast majority of Christians. It's been twisted into a better than you, do what I say religion. And that benefits no one. Radicalism in christianity seems to be more present again in the last four years. Using it against people of color and women. Just like in the Jim Crowe and MLK era. Fast forward. In 2020 I was told being a dirty Mexican, meant I was going to hell. This from a guy who almost hit me as he exited a Joel Osteen rally or service whatever it's called. It's definitely on the rise again. All it took was the right person to bring them out of the woodwork full force. "Christians" stormed the Capitol in the name of God for not getting thier way. To allow a hateful administration to continue. This new day and age we have no room for such outdated views. It's dangerous for the people that think differently and the Country as a whole. I'm in Tx, I see all of this very often. Politicians and followers always citing the bible to take more women's healthcare and choices away. Just look at our Governor's actions and bible citing to legitimize those hateful actions. This group is no better than a group of terrorists. Terrorizing others in to thinking like them or else. Everyone going to hell except for them. Radical religion is not what this country needs to come together and heal after a disgusting four years. They should be ashamed for disrespecting sacred land and honestly arrested for desecration of a protected site for climbing the mound. Until they see real consequences they think they have the right to terrorize in the name of the Lord.
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Mary Lynne Lightowler
A 'sacred site' is just that, and since it is not the Christian's property, permission is required to access the site . . . it's the respectful thing to do, else you enter trespassing realms. .As for ceremonies -- it's really not the Christian's business what's there . . . and of course if they had any sense about it, they'd know that presence doesn't ensure any success. So they could help from a distance just by loving the site . . . extend out what they want to see in love and joy! Blessings
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Daniel Gray
And its not native Americans property either, it belongs to the State of Ohio.
Try again
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Julie Lehmkuhl
It was native land well before the state was formed.
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Daniel Gray
Ok how can you claim this when the closest Native American people were a good three day march from these serpent mounds. And thats on foot. And if you would have bothered to check not one of Ohio's Native American clans/tribes/nations claims that area. Every one of them tries to stay away from it as it has according to them, a bad "juju" or is cursed and they want nothing to do with it.
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Avtar Adi Kaur
I definitely want to add a comment, because 2 things are needed, here. 1st, it would behoove us all, to recognize that we've all been miseducated, in numerous ways, from the Easter Bunny, to Santa Claus, to supporting the animal slaughterhouses, that kill God's precious creatures, so that we can eat and drink things that make people sick. Nothing dead and pumped up with chemicals and fear sustains life. The sick care system, and Big Pharma are visible proof of that, and, who's at the root of society's ills? None other than the United States government aka the United Snakes of Amerikkka, that's who. The U.S. was founded with blood on their hands. No entity, created with the intent to harm other human beings, can create anything but confusion and more blood shed. Killing begets killing, and so on, and so on. This is why we have people calling themselves Christians, doing crazy things, calling them "good deeds", in the name of Jesus, when these acts are nothing more, than ignorant attempts at being holy. We've all been lied to, there was no religion when humanity co-existed with nature. Not religion, self righteousness, wars, nor conflicts will get us out of this mess. Most of us can agree, that we want a better world, a happy and peaceful world. So, like Ghandi said, "be the change you want to see". We can start with love, compassion, forgiveness and empathy, for others, along with following "The Golden Rule", and see where that takes us, for a change.
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David Bartlett
I have both Indigenous American and European DNA. Each group has a right to believe and worship as they wish. But no one has the right to commandeer someone else's sacred place for their own religious purpose. If these Christians can do this then the Native American's whose sacred place they trespassed upon have the right to walk into their church and hold their "pagan" ceremonies and rites at their alter or pulpit.
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Thomas Johnson
As being of Native American heritage myself it was very wrong to do. The Native Americans have a right to there belief and in America we need to respect everyone’s rights!
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Carl A. Hankins
It's called dark energy's to you all. But just think about it ? All the graveyards in the world have had bad people put in them. Most don't eminate it due to your train of thought. You see nicely groomed headstones and it has a decor you've come to accept so it's not noticed. Here you see nothing of the people who are there, their a mystery to you. You seem like the person being attacked. Doesn't Satan try to tear down others doesn't it provoke to anger through trivial things. Maybe your disturbed because they might be resurected before yourselves ? They are more inocent than you will ever be. Think about it then let them rest.
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Tabitha
"We don't swim in your toilet, so don't piss in our pool". Pretty simple statement for many
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Richard Lee Cornell
Tribal Indians are known to have Tuberculosis. They should have cough in the faces of the mask less white fools.
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Andrea Dillon
Native Americans have their own spiritual ceremonies that should never ever be messed with! Tribal lands should NOT be desecrated! how many Native Americans have been murdered in the name of Jesus Christ? How many more have been forced to convert or been tortured in one wayor another. All due to and ignorance and an unwillingness to see that we're all one people. As sn enrolled Native American person who is very spiritual. I believe what that pastor did was wrong. How many times have Christians in the name of their Christ gone into Native American areas and slaughtered them, forced their way and then insist that they pray and say that we're evil people because of our sacred sites and how we choose to worship? to each their own. However there is no honorable reason to be forceful an ugly like that. There are other ways they could of gone about their purpose. the Native American people I'm sure were praying for that group of Christians as well as the mother earth that they are trying to protect. Native Americans are the protectors of the Earth! For far too long the ugly side of Christianity has reigned supreme. There's good and bad to all and in the end my Native American Roots tell me to pray for those people! <3
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brian ham
Some Christians can only be described as wankers.
Dark energy. Do they think it's Harry Potter
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John Casillo
Respectfully,....prayer does not need to invade a sight.....the humble and meek shall inherit the kingdom of God.....sometimes I wonder why God even bothers with humans....at least my cat thinks so.........grace is the light thru the darkness....will we ever learn....Rev john
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Nancy Pianfetti
Those thugs should have NEVER entered a Sacred Site. They had absolutely NO right to intrude and desecrate Native American sacred space. The Native American people have suffered more abuse and hatred than any other group in this country. Please let them honor in peace at the little land that this country has given them. They deserve so much more! Those were not christians...they were hoodlums. I am so sorry that our Native American people had to endure another stand for their dignity. This must stop!
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Ellie_Loves
The indigenous people of these lands have endure through much evil over the centuries; that evil being those that came from Europe and beyond that enslaved, murdered and pillaged a culture that lived here for 1000's of years. The audacity to step on sacred land and defile their culture is appalling and disrespectful. I am getting bloody tired of right wing extremist using the guise of their "faith" to purge evil when they themselves are the negative energy. Alas, the human race is beyond flawed and until man can truly open his eyes and see the truth we are doomed to repeat the sins of the father. May Gaia have mercy on our souls.
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Robert Edward Szekely
This is no more justifiable than terrorists killing innocents in the name of Allah. It is merely of lesser degree.
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David L Huey
Are the Indigenous people NOT protected by the Constitution's Freedom of Religion amendment? Therefore as this site was sacred to then and their practice of their faith would be the same as any "so-called Christian worshiping in their church, cathedral.temple or synagogue. Let's show a little respect here.
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Andrew James White
From an anthropological stand point. It is better to observe and learn than to determine someone else's beliefs are wrong. However, if they are Christians, they should have realized they offended the party who deems the site sacred to begin with. Therefore, they should have apologized and shared their opinions respectfully, and prayed their prayers elsewhere. Be kind. Slow to anger. And, above all respect and love your neighbor! Just my thoughts...
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Kim Christine Hinton
It baffles me how certain groups can get so entangled in fixing something or someone else. This is gravesit desecration. I pray with all my heart, mind, and spirit that the Indigenous people across America and around the world are left alone to live in peace and that they finally receive the respect and honor that has been snatched away at the will of others for centuries. I am disgusted at this nonsense.
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Linda W.Smith
After reading about what those Christians did was a sin before GOD.How do they think they can go on sacred ground and perform a ceremony.How would they like it if Native Americans came into their sacred place and performed a ceremony.That was just outright disrespectful.There they go again trying to take over.If appears to me that those Christians have a dark demonic cloud over them.Well anyway they came maskless and the GOD along with the ancestors are watching and they see the evil that is going on.
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Ami Offenbacher-Ferris
What is it about our Native American Spirit that so frightens these people? Perhaps a brush against goodness and purity forces their own demons to the surface, where they bubble and boil until the corrupted individual no longer has use of his own mental faculties.
I have often said to my own children, “Leave the free flying bee alone. If you don’t bother it, it will not bother you. But, if you attempt to swat at it or kill it, you will soon feel the pain of its stinger upon your neck.”
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Robert Edward Szekely
More evils have been committed in God's name than in Man's or the Devil's.
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Amber Fry
Not their business. Trespassing isn't part of the program. Keep it to invite only or stick to their own people's properties.
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Paul J. Fumero
The only dark energy there was the one brought in by these bible thumper evangelicals christians. Native American beliefs are way purer than those being pushed by these religious nuts. Good to confront then and then sue them for trespassing.
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Christopher Johnson
Absolutely not. It is the height of hubris to believe that God can be pigeon holed into ANY one religion. The test of an "evil" faith is simple - do they do evil things? Do they hurt people, animals, or the planet? If not, then I would say that God is very much in ANY religion who teaches love, peace, and stewardship of the earth. He, in his infinite wisdom which no mere mortal can claim to fully understand, chose to reveal Himself the way He did to other faiths for His own reasons.
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Robert Edward Szekely
UU (Unitarian Universalists) view different religions as perceiving light coming through different stained glass windows: the light is God, and as changed by the Window patterns, the different perceptions, and so, religions. Others have viewed the various religions as "God containment systems". Because, yes - God is far greater and vaster than any of the religious frameworks we try to constrain Them to. (Remember, God created the genders according to the Bible. Making God masculine in The Bible was either a matter of convenience, or the influence of patriarchal society upon its transcription. Especially for trinitarian Christians, God should better be known as a "Them" vs. a "He", being a "Three-in-One": Father/Son/Holy Spirit: the last person of the Trinity having been borrowed from the Jews, as the Shechinah, or the feminine facet of God that would manifest in the Holy of Holies in response to the prayers of the priests to God Almighty (El Shaddai).
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Glennon Lee Jones
You know it is foolish where this world is going, it doesn't matter what color you are.. red, black, white, brown, tan, yellow, pink, purple, orange, does matter.. when it comes down to the first ones ever... it was 2 people put on this earth Adam, and Eve. which means we ALL bleed RED blood. Put all the hate and segregations, stop all the fighting between us, stop all the this life matters that like matters WE ALL MATTER Stop destruction of monuments there are monuments of all everywhere, just cause you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. It's ALL history. PAST history. NOONE now did ANY of those things, it's the PAST leave it there. We ALL good to work together, our kids all go to school together, we all date, marry, have kids, and yes divorced. but WE ALL DO IT TOGETHER. It's NOT segregated anymore, STOP making it that way. because when that final day comes... WE ALL have to face our own belief. We all live in America. the states that are UNITED as 1 in a whole. We win together, we fight Together. should NOT be against one another.
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Ronald Gri
My friends; It was THEIR land long before ours. We are only guests here, and most likely unwanted guests at that. It's THEIR land. Leave them to their beliefs as we all well know, it matters not what NAME we provide HIM. HE is ALL and ONE. BLESSED BE HIS NAMES. ALL faiths point to HIM and the Father ;} P.S. Who was it that helped the first Americans when they reached America. Did not these very people help those pioneers 'learn'; what was required to survive their several nasty winters??
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Ben Winters
Why would a Christian Minister under his own idea that dark energy would exist on Native ground, literally a graveyard, take it upon himself to hold a meeting to excise something. It would be the same if a group of Native Americans decided to go to a graveyard in any town or city and decide to do a ceremony of their own to excise evil. What kind of a Christian would hold judgement on a place or a person and take it upon themselves to publicly claim evil exists without any kind of evidence to the fact? It was a blatant disrespect to the community and the Native Americans who hold the place to be sacred.
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Robert Edward Szekely
The self-righteous evangelistic attitude underlying the arrogance of these sodium-saturated, greasy hypocrites abusing the name of Christ for their shameful pretext needs to go the way of Cro-Magnon man. We can present and share our beliefs with others for their consideration (if asked), or set an enviable example of our faith that inspires others to follow by how we actively practice it, but not actively seek to convert others. We truly don't know who is right or who is not, or even if anyone is: and truly, it doesn't matter. Religion and faith are personal matters. You respect the rights of others if you expect them to respect yours, and that includes matters of faith. As my mother used to say, "You go to your church, and I'll go to mine" - even if that church happens to be a synagogue, mosque, an altar in your home, or a sacred space in your heart. To paraphrase the Bible quote, these are those people Jesus said would call His name, who could expect His reply that He never knew them.
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Shannon Long
This act of exorcism was a blatant disregard for the Spirituality of Native Americans
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Nikki Tate- Coates
I am very upset by what these Christians did. That sight was built by a culture that was ancient when their Lord walked the earth. It is like I said in my last comment. Every religion & the beliefs & teachings of every religion should be respected. Those Christian activists were trampling in another religion & culture's beliefs & sacred space. What they did against those Native Americans is textbook blasphemy! My son's father is Blackfoot & although I'm of Egyptian decent, I feel a spiritual connection to the Native American culture & enjoy attending powwows. I'm so upset about this situation that I am going to need to cool down. What's next, the Baptists going to Egypt & dousing the Pyramids with holy water to get rid of "dark energy"! When will this stop?!!
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Waya
Native Americans fought for their religious freedom for 400 years. I've watched these rights be trampled on by people like this myself. They have no rights to our ceremonies or our land since the 1978 American Indian Religious Freedom Act. Dave is disrespectful.
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Jeremey Joe Ellis
They should have never gone there. That is sacred ground and the thought of evil being there to me sounds preposterous. We as Christians are better than this. Disrespecting another culture is not the church. This video only makes them look like uneducated thugs. The Ohio Tribal director had every right to throw these people out.
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Daniel Gray
Um sorry but no. That is NOT tribal land and never was so he had no authority to do anything
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Craig
You're ignoring the fact some fundamentalist group tried to disparage another group's beliefs under the guise of Christianity. The dumbest thing is, while I do believe most Christians are not behaving so poorly, this small minded group gives another black eye to their religion for being so judgmental and narrow minded.
Christianity needs to get past this outdated idea of conversion and brow beating to 'spread the word.' It's led to masses leaving the ranks of Christianity as people realize those old and tired ways of spreading "the word" are not acceptable and no longer tolerable.
You're trying to shift the argument away from the truth: they should not have done it in the first place because they're not treating the Indigenous People and their beliefs with respect. Do you really think a benevolent deity would look on that group of fundamentalists with anything other than disdain?
Bottom line here is: people who belittle others are just bullies, and usually ignorant.
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Daniel Gray
WRONG yet again Carlie, I am stating fact and law. This site IS NOT a sacred site as the Native Americans who supposedly built this are EXTINCT and vanished from the face of the earth 1 BC. So for ANY Tribe/clan/Nation to claim its sacred they actually MUST be part of the nation or children of same who actually built this. So how exactly can this be when this clan or nation went extinct a year before Christ was born?
And no even the State of Ohio has said this is not a sacred site as it is not claimed by ANY recognized Native American Clan/Tribe (which would be very difficult since they went extinct)
And again NO, it is NOT a UNISCO site and cannot be unless the State of Ohio specifically requests it, and they have not.
Strike 1,2,3. You are out so stop passing off your nonsense and hit the showers yet again
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
His legal rights won't matter when he finds his head head on top of a totem pole.
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Brien
ROFLMAO......you made me choke on my ☕. 🤣🤣🤣
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Brien
This seems to be more about the age old "freedom of and freedom from religion" than anything else. I try to break it down this way. You have your personal rights as described in the constitution. However, your rights may not be used to curtail someone else's rights. Now, if you are on public shared land, person A has every right to pray as they wish, as does person B. If this were private land, say on a reservation, then the story would be different. But as public land, open to the public, it is open to all cultures and beliefs. While I truly feel for the inians that are offended by this activity, there is simply nothing illegal about it. Peace.
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Brien
This seems to be more about the age old "freedom of and freedom from religion" than anything else. I try to break it down this way. You have your personal rights as described in the constitution. However, your rights may not be used to curtail someone else's rights. Now, if you are on public shared land, person A has every right to pray as they wish, as does person B. If this were private land, say on a reservation, then the story would be different. But as public land, open to the public, it is open to all cultures and beliefs. While I truly feel for the inians that are offended by this activity, there is simply nothing illegal about it. Peace.
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Robert Edward Szekely
Yet, to live together in peace, we must strive to respect the beliefs of others without imposing ours upon them. That did not happen here. These so-called Christians were selfish and arrogant, and not Christ-like at all.
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T Kosse`
A brief history of the Vikings Global Vikings: how the impact of the raiders and traders went far beyond Britain The first step on the way came – 200 years before Leif’s discovery of Vinland – with the conquest and of Scotland’s Northern Isles soon after 800. This was followed about 25 years later by the settlement of the Faroe Islands and then Iceland in c870. The next step was the foundation of the Norse Greenland colony by Erik the Red in the 980s. As Greenland is geologically part of the North American continent, this ought to be regarded as the first European settlement in the Americas, though it is rarely recognized as such.
The first sighting The settlement of Greenland was quickly followed by the first European sighting of the North American continental mainland, a feat achieved by an Icelandic merchant called Bjarni Herjolfsson.
According to the Greenlanders’ Saga – which, with Erik the Red’s Saga, is our main literary source for the Viking discovery of America – Bjarni had returned home from a trip to Norway in 986 to find that his father had emigrated to Greenland with Erik the Red. Knowing nothing about Greenland, save that it was mountainous, treeless and had good pastures, Bjarni set off after his father and predictably soon got lost.
After several days of bad weather and poor visibility, Bjarni found himself off the coast of a densely forested, hilly land. This was obviously not Greenland so, without even landing, Bjarni sailed north and after two days sighted a flat, forested land. Once again he didn’t land. After sailing north-east for another three days, Bjarni encountered a rocky, mountainous, glaciated land which he thought too barren to be Greenland. Putting the land astern, Bjarni sailed east and four days later arrived at the Norse settlement in Greenland.
Bjarni’s discoveries excited a lot of interest and, when he decided to give up trading, Erik the Red’s son Leif Eriksson bought his ship and set off on a follow-up expedition. This was around the time that Iceland converted to Christianity, that is c1000. Leif began by reversing Bjarni’s course. Sailing north-west, Leif came to a land of bare rock and glaciers which he called Helluland (‘Slab Land’). Turning south, Leif next came to a low forested land with white sand beaches which he decided to call Markland (‘Forest Land’).
Sailing south-west for two days Leif discovered a land where the rivers teemed with salmon and grapes grew wild. This Leif called Vinland (‘Wine Land’). The party built houses at a place afterwards called Leifsbuðir (‘Leif’s booths’), where they spent a comfortable winter. “The country seemed to them so kind that no winter fodder would be needed for livestock: there was never any frost all winter and the grass hardly withered at all.”
The winter days were much longer than they were in Greenland and “on the shortest day of the year, the sun was visible in the middle of the afternoon as well as at breakfast time”. Come the spring, Leif and his men cut a full load of timber – wood was always in short supply in Greenland – and set off home.
Leif made no contact with native peoples, that fatal first encounter took place during his brother Thorvald’s follow-up expedition. Thorvald’s death at the hands of Native Americans was not enough to deter at least two attempts by the Norse to settle in Vinland. The first, about two years after Thorvald’s death, was led by Thorfinn Karlsefni, an Icelandic merchant, who took with him his wife Gudrid, 65 men, five women, and a variety of livestock.
The party spent an uneventful winter at Leifsbuðir, during which time Gudrid gave birth to a son, Snorri, the first European to be born in America. In the spring, the party had its first encounter with Native Americans, who turned up at Leifsbuðir to trade furs. The Norse called them ‘Skrælings’, perhaps meaning ‘screamers’. Coming from a Stone Age culture, the Skrælings were fascinated by the Norsemen’s iron weapons and tools but Karlsefni forbade his men to trade them.
Gudrid gave birth to a son, Snorri, the first European to be born in America During a second encounter later in the summer, one of Karlesefni’s men killed a Skræling who was trying to steal some weapons. The Norse defeated an attempt by the Skrælings to take revenge but after spending another winter at Leifsbuðir, Karlsefni returned to Greenland.
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T Kosse`
The Norse colonization of North America began in the late 10th century CE when Norsemen explored and settled area of the North Atlantic including the northeastern fringes of North America. Remains of Norse buildings were found at L'Anse aux Meadows near the northern tip of Newfoundland in 1960 They landed 500 years before Christopher Columbus even set sail.
.The first encounter between Europeans and Native Americans did not go well for either side. Around AD 1000, Leif Eriksson had sailed west from the newly established Norse colony in Greenland and discovered a fair land he named Vinland. Now, three years later, his brother Thorvald was in the second summer of a follow-up expedition. Thorvald and his men were exploring a headland at the mouth of a fjord when they spotted three humps on a sandy beach. On further investigation, the humps turned out to be canoes and under them were cowering nine men. The Norsemen captured and killed eight of them but the ninth escaped and raised the alarm.
Later the same day, Thorvald and his men saw a swarm of canoes sailing down the fjord towards them. Outnumbered, they took refuge in their ship and, with the advantage of iron weapons, beat off the attack. However, during the fight Thorvald received an arrow wound in the armpit and died shortly afterwards. At his request, Thorvald’s men gave him a Christian burial on the headland, marking his grave with crosses at his head and feet. Leif had been the first European to set foot on the American continent; Thorvald was the first to be buried there.
Leif had been the first European to set foot on the American continent; Thorvald was the first to be buried there Because of the subsequent history of the Americas, the Norse discovery of America has become one of the most studied aspects of the Viking Age (c800–1100), a period that saw Scandinavian raiders, traders and settlers active across much of Europe and as far south as north Africa’s Mediterranean coast and as far east as Baghdad. Collectively, Viking Age Scandinavians knew more of the world than any previous Europeans. As the only proven pre-Columbian European contact with the Americas, the fascination with the Norse discoveries is understandable. But do they really merit all the attention?
The Norse route to America is sometimes described as ‘the stepping stone route’ because it proceeded in stages, from one island group to another with relatively short open-sea crossings between them.
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Dr. Pangborn
I think both sides could have been more diplomatic and just had thanksgiving together (just kiddfing). Fighting would be the lastg thing either Jesus or Father or Mother Earth would have wanted. Religion and Faith are supposed to be about love and forgiveness and history has shown this in all cultures and their differn't ways of practicing in each one. I don't think anyone owns any land. It belongs to everyone and if people are doing something positive than why try to stop them except to try to have a cause to fight. I believe in Native American tradition and I believe in Christianity....I believe all religions are true and its just time to forgive and love and quit trying to fight for something that Mother Earth is probably needing and that is healing. I don't see Native Americans going to Church and doing a sweat bur they were living off the land and prefer simple and natural compared to expensive buildings with statues and tons of money and government poured into it. However both pray so be humble chant pray celebrate together instead of getting angry and defensive. This could have been a beautiful thing if people had remained humble.
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Brandon Francis Hakulin
Thank you.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Judging by the look of Daubendoo-doo in that picture, I bet he thought he could scare away the Native Americans with his awful breath.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Happy New Year!!! Regardless of our vast differences in religious and spiritual beliefs, before the end of this 1st day of January, make sure you eat some black eyed peas and cabbage (I'll be adding a lot of bacon to mine), for good luck in the coming year (which will atleast have a folk magic effect).
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tuppennyblue
To learn more about Serpent Mound, read Graham Hancock's latest book "America Before", where he demonstrates the astronomical alignments of the monument, and suggests that it is much older than is usually believed.
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Amy Minckler
How in the world could someone say they were part of the "pass the salt" ministires with a straight face? It sounds like a group of foodies at best and a group of wannabe cannibiles at the worst.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The way Daubenmire's mouth was open in the above picture I assumed they were cocksuckers. Was he also down on his knees, waiting for that serpent to slither down his throat, and inject him with pudding from Jesus. You can't have your pudding before you eat your meat!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
What's salt without pepper? Why don't they pass both? And, what do they put it on, serpents? That sounds kind of kinky. Wouldn't it be better to use flavored sex oils?
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John P Maher
ALL THE BLAH< BLAH< BLAH, HOW ABOUT PRAYING to OUST ALL the PERVERSION AGAINST CHILDREN in THE WORLD FROM CLERGY and OTHER DARK PERVERTS, LIKE the G O Pigs
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Robert Edward Szekely
troll.
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Rev. Howard Slayton
No, we should not go to sacred Indian burial mounds and hold Christian prayer services. Those Christians suck in a big way! When in Rome dude! Seriously.
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Mya-Lia Sharizyn
First of all, I believe that the darkness should NEVER be referred to as evil. Darkness is where we are conceived, it is the center of our eyes without which we wouldn't have sight. It is where we sleep to restore and replenish ourselves. Without respect for any of these three things, we would be without either life, sight, or health. Evil should be called evil and that's that.
Secondly, snakes, like trees, connect the Earth to heaven. Do your research to know the reason why if you are curious. They are also in the medical symbol for healing. Google it. They represent the kundalini energy within us. Check that out too.
And third, praying on the sides of the site, in my opinion, is just as wrong as walking upon it since the spirit aspect is intentionally intervening just as the physical aspect is.
As one who dedicated my spirit and my body to an ancient site for several years (18 to be exact) in hopes of its restoration, my hopes were manifested. The spiritual beings residing there were well known to me, and every form of degradation to the area was not welcome just as no person would welcome a stranger entering their property and doing whatever they pleased because they thought their way was the right way. Do even those you invite into your home serve themselves to redecorating it and destroying what they dislike? Seriously, these children should grow up and mind their own business or go directly to jail.
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Mya-Lia Sharizyn
Regarding references to light being all good, light blinds, dehydrates, and burns. Rainwater comes from dark clouds and there is no light in the depths of the ocean's waters or in the ground from which springs rise. Calling the darkness evil is, in my opinion and I strongly believe, this is the cause of so many problems in this world today. The light, after all, is not in opposition to darkness but in harmony with it.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Also, the entire galaxy/universe that we all are in is dark.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It's also good, for people my àge and older, to have sex in the dark.
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John Komorowski
HAHA, AHHAHA!
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tuppennyblue
The majority of Christians are just decent people who want to praise and worship in their own way. There's a lunatic fringe in every religion; sometimes caused by taking it to its logical extreme, and sometimes by straightforward misunderstanding either of their own, or someone else's religion. Please don't think these people are representative of Christians as a whole. Palestine in the first century AD would have been a hotbed of differing religious beliefs: as well as Judaism, there would have been countless sects imported by the Romans, including cults of Mithras, Isis and Harpocrates, and not to mention beliefs spilling over from nearby Mesopotamia. I don't recall any stories in the New Testament where Jesus got into conflict with anyone because their religious understanding differed from his.
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Mya-Lia Sharizyn
Excellent information! And I agree, these people who are part of the Christian belief system are not out to convert everybody and attempt to save the world by changing it through encouraging everybody else to believe what they believe. I'd anybody is going to save the world, it's going to be the environmentalists.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Manifest Destiny continues to this day. Where dependents of white European Christians still believe God gave this land to steal from the Native people and exterminate them.
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James M Slack
I believe that these Pass the Salt Ministries were totally in the wrong. I don’t believe anyone would like Native American People going into their cemetery’s and preforming their ceremonies. It would be disrespectful and I don’t believe they would stoop that low. I hope this doesn’t ever happen again. Indian burial grounds are very sacred and should be left tvst way and not disturbed by thoughtless people
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Daniel Gray
Really? The Native Americans have done it before. IN fact the last Pow-Wow I went to in Ohio was done on a field....which was well known that there was a Christian Graveyard there. And not one of the people around the area said "boo" about it and allowed them to do their "rites".
You really should know what you are talking about BEFORE you start talking as I bet you can find the same thing happening in other states as well
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Thom
The President of the United States has ignited the religious wars from centuries ago filled with hatred and prejudice of individuals who practice other theologies. It is time that Christians realize The world is not just a Christian environment. We have a multitude of theologies and each works for the population it serves. These multitudes of theologies serve the same purpose of teaching peace and generosity to others. To instill that in each other and our offspring. To take care of all who are of less fortunate than others. These are the teachings of great theologians. Wise teachers of peace and harmony. Believers of the chi and powers of positive energy and what we can do as individuals with our own minds. We can like Jesus Christ stated, who studied with all of the great theologians on his travels not discussed in the Christian teachings, that we like him are capable of all the same things he also did. We are healers, we are providers of great miracles, we are Angels if we so choose to use our energy the way he and others he learned from also did. It is time that we respect each other and all our teachings from every theology and come together to form a great Global Nation! Unity is the Key! Fanaticism and negative theologies must be taught out of our nations.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
So far, nobody in the Trump family has lived to be very old. Don't expect Donald fuc-wad Trumpelstiltskin to live very many more years. He probably won't even make it to the next presidential election. And it takes atleast a few hundred years after death to be recognized as a saint, so don't get your hopes up to the contrary. It's the same old song: "All we are is dust in the wind".
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Paul J. Fumero
These stupid people think they have God by the Beard! Seems like the only dark energy was what they brought within themselves. They need to respect other's belief systems. Besides, American Christianity will be gone in about 100 years time and good riddance since they do not follow Jesus Teachings of Love God and Treat others well. All paths lead back to God. Its just that some take longer than others.
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Lionheart
First of all, what is a god? Second, how do you know it’s real and exists?
As for the Jesus guy.
Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luke 19:27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
Matthew 10:35-37 For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
If he ever existed he had one HUGE ego issue. He’s not the sort of person I would ever want to follow, he’s too full of himself.
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm hoping it's going to be a lot less than a hundred years for the world to be rid of chrstianity, Paul. I bet we can rid the world of it in less than thirty years. I'll keep doing my part, but we all must pitch in. I bet crucifying christian leaders would help immensely.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Maybe black energy is produced by drinking black coffee (especially espresso).
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Philip Joseph Ryan
They're not Christians, they are angry, uneducated, irreligious bigots who use Christianity as an excuse to be obnoxious to those who have a differing belief system. Their Intolerance and egregious actions are anathema to true Christians, who will be tired of redneck Christians bringing their faith into disrepute. I suspect that they only target those who eschew violence, they wouldn't dare try pulling this stunt in a mosque, because they'd be running for their lives.
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John Condron
"True Christians" have a long history of disrespecting Native American traditions and beliefs, including kidnapping their children and "educating" them in Christian "schools." "True Christians" tried to eradicate their languages, outlawed their religious ceremonies, and actually killed Native Americans. This is yet another example of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. The behavior of Daubenmire and his cult are completely consistent with historical Christian behavior -- except there were no deaths!
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Annamarie Davis
Well put, and sadly completely accurate
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
True Christians fought to keep slavery and all of it’s atrocities as well.
True Christians fight for all the wrong things it seems.
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Andrea Dillon
🤲💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓
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Robert Duff
They probably put sugar on their porridge.
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Daniel Gray
yet again click bait. It is not a "sacred site" and its NOT listed on UNESCO's site...its listed in the Ohio Historical Society as a STATE PARK and thats it. Too bad you didnt bother to actually ASK the Ohio Historical Society BEFORE you started this idiotic and error filled thread.
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John Condron
Who are you to declare that this is not a sacred site? The fact that many ancestors are buried there makes the site "sacred" to the Native American tribes. The article does not say the site is listed on UNESCO's site; it says it is "on the U.S. Tentative List for possible World Heritage inscription by UNESCO."
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Daniel Gray
Try the State of Ohio who ruled it wasnt child. And you do know what TENTATIVE means right? And sorry again this CANNOT be placed on any list or world heritage site UNLESS it is requested to be done so BY the State or country it is located in. And this has never been done according to the US Library of Congress. And there are NO Native American graves there as Native Americans used SKY GRAVES which means that they placed the bodies on a platform and allowed nature to take its course. It is also NOT on any tribal land nor near any reservation. Even the Ohio History Connection and the State of Ohio confirms this so your claim of graves being buried there is a myth. The closest you can come to for a grave site (if you want to call it that) is the so called Adena burial mounds and they died out in 1 BC over 2000 years ago and the closest "burial mound" to the Snake one is well over 22 miles away a three day march for the Adena people
So you can complain all you want. The fact remains the same...the whole story is a click bait and you fell for it.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You must want to be everyone's mother, Danielle, considering the way you keep calling them child, my boy.
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Daniel Gray
How typical. When you are shown the facts Carl the best you can do is a 3rd grader whine to try and use it for an insult. Now lets see Carl, exactly WHAT authority you seem to think you have to call the Ohio History Connection and the Ohio Historical Society as well, wrong because YOU say so?
Oh and even UNESCO is calling you a liar as here it is directly from their website And Scientific America as well
"In order to be deemed a World Heritage site, the location must be of Outstanding Universal Value, demonstrating international significance; it must “transcend national boundaries and be of common importance for present and future generations of all humanity” (Operational Guidelines 2012).Jun 10, 2013. Now I can see the Grand Canyon being named this or Glacier National Park or even the Redwood National Forest, but the Serpent Mound? Not even in the close. The Temple of Kukulcán in Mexico stands a better chance of being named a UNESCO site and it isnt nor has it been.
Go play with your playdough child, thats about all you are good for.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You certainly àre defensive, child. You'll find better ways of dealing with constructive criticism after you grow up, my boy.
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Daniel Gray
So stating fact and proving you ignorant and wrong is defensive according to you?. Typical response from you when you have been destroyed and have nothing left to say or a leg to stand on
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Robert Edward Szekely
Daniel -
Regarding the "sky graves" you refer to, that's a Zoroastrian practice - an ancient Persian monotheism.
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Daniel Gray
https://coronertalk.com/native-american-burial-rituals-ep205 is saying you dont know what the heack you are talking about and so does the Smithsonian Museum of Native Americans in Washington DC
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Robert Edward Szekely
Daniel. Please stop being a troll.
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Daniel Gray
whats wrong? Mad because I am destroying these people posting false info left and right with the facts?
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EMason
Curious. So no site can be considered sacred until it has been confirmed and blessed by some government agency?
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SensibleSam
That's exactly what the white dude said.
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Daniel Gray
Dude you DO know you are talking to a proud member of the Wolf Clan of the Cherokee Nation ....right?
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Daniel Gray
Not saying that, just saying that everything John Condron said was utter bull. The facts show he does not know what he is talking about. And if we allowed every site that someone claimed was "sacred" to be put off guard, then you would still be living in caves and eating raw animals.
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Minister Ivette
Unbelievable! I'm sure if anyone went to their church to pray away "negativity" all hell would break loose. Again, some people calling themselves Christians imposing their beliefs and disrespecting others.
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CB Cuff
Similar but different is christian - only prayer in government and schools. I'm at a loss why councilors etc. find a need to pray before having a political meeting. Do your praying before you join the meeting, keep the biases out in the hallway. I call a conflict of interest in those cases.
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Robert Edward Szekely
I think that a moment of silent prayer (or mediation) is a good compromise, no?
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Paul J. Fumero
Comment removed by user.
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Pastor~HP~Sister Beth
I am so sad these mounds were disrespected in this manner. You don’t have to share someone else’s faith, but you should at the very least respect them. I have Native American heritage. I am also a Christian. If this was done in a respectful manner - i.e. QUIETLY, it would have been fine. But to say, simply because you don’t understand these Tribes beliefs, that they are Satanic... that’s not only absurd, but makes this particular Church look ignorant and uneducated. It breaks my heart. The Tribal Community there had every right to defend their sacred site.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but I AM NATIVE AMERICAN (Cherokee Nation Wolf Clan) and these are NOT sacred to anyone as the people who made them died out in 1BC. Now if you can find any relation to them then please do, but it will be very difficult if not impossible
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Daniel, the article says the mounds are thought to be 1,000 years old, which would place the building in the late 10th - early 11th centuries of the Common Era.
1 BCE as you offer, would be over 1,000 years too early.
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Daniel Gray
Then they are not Native American as the clans/tribes that lived in Ohio all claim to a person that they didnt build them and none of their ancestors did either.
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Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.
Oh children of Adam and Eve,the Holy Bible called the law is made for sinners. And not for righteous ones says I,Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.,so holy. I am a Catholic minister ordained through Universal Life Church.
1 Timothy 1:8-11 New International Version 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
NOTES 1 Timothy 1:12-15 New International Version The Lord’s Grace to Paul 12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.
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John P Maher
HEY CHRISTIANS GO TO D C and PRAY OUT tRUMP and the G O Pigs, GOD WILL LOVE YOU !!!
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John Komorowski
John P Maher, you are a sad commentary that shows you have no character at all, let alone a modicum of intelligence.
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Robert A Stiff
Mr. Komorowski; Who are you to judge another's posting?
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Daniel Gray
Not that hard when his posting has absolutely nothing to do with the thread now does it?
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John P Maher
YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT BUTT YOU CAN ALWAYS TRY, NO? IGNORANT CHRISTIAN tRUMPIES, WATCH MORE MARVEL MOVIES....
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Robert Edward Szekely
You know that CAPS LOCK key? It can be turned off.
(troll)
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CB Cuff
Although ownership of the land via deed/title, which is of course relevant, government 'owned' land belong to all the people of that country. Just like I can't stop someone fishing in the ocean just because they're fishing in my favourite spot. Sacred sites are another story, and that land should be respected. If that site was shaped like a kangaroo would those crazy people be out there trying to exorcise it out?? The delusion of evil existing there, by the christians speaks for itself. That some of them became physical to support that delusion was disturbing.... the sense of entitlement to do what they damn well wanted reflects the hypocrisy many christians exude throughout their beliefs and proselytising.
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John T Stark
Agreed.
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Lionheart
Can someone tell me what dark energy is? I understand the science about black holes, but dark energy? Was it dark energy that the mythical god of the Old Testament was possessed with when he killed those little children? Just asking.
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Maybe that dark energy is something that fool saw during a hallucination, which could mean it's time for a trip to the psyche ward, and a medication change. I think the false assumption of dark or black being something bad was started by prejudiced people, of European descent. Of course, us Wiccans (and former Wiccans) know that the color black, such as in candle magick, is used for clearing the air of negativity. Magick can be used for good or bad purposes, and that does not make it associated with a color, of lighter or darker hue, as a lot of people who are ignorant on the subject mistakenly believe, such as in thinking there is white and black magic, sometimes associating the latter with Satanism. And Satanism, as I understand it, doesn't have anything to do with anything dark, or even serpents, which was only once mentioned in a fable, in the book of Genesis, which was more than enough to be totally misconstrued by the ignorant masses.
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Lionheart
Whatever Magick really is, if it exists at all, it would be nice if there was some peer review scientific research to demonstrably prove the existence of such phenomena. If it was ever proved to be real, wouldn’t it be nice if hospitals could use it to help cure people of sickness and illness. Until then, it just exists in the heads of those that would like to imagine it’s real. This mythical philosophy has existed by mankind ever since homo-erectus developed the capacity to think and create illogical fallacies.
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And who can prove that many people who have been cured of illnesses weren't cured by magick? Just saying.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Faith and belief isn't necessarily provable or even rational. Iether you have it, or you don't, which is niether good or bad, but I'm glad I believe in what I believe in, and have faith in the magick I experience, and don't care what anyone thinks about it, so I have nothing of which I ever care to convince of. And I hope you, Sir Lionheart, are never convinced of the contrary of your beliefs, or lack thereof. I will never seek to prove you wrong, my good man.
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Lionheart
Have a wonderful, and happy new year Carl. Our goal is to make it through this year and get to 2022. Woohoo!!!
🦁❤️
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John Komorowski
Do not, for one second, think that 'religion isn't a manmade constriction, for surely it is.
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James Pace
If any Christian attempts to pray away any negative energy at any sacred sites I know of, things won't be peaceful. I'm a Norse pagan and I'm very comfortable with violence...
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Robert Edward Szekely
Asatru? Mjolnir? :)
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Some of use prefer just plain Heathen, and do acknowledge that what we do is an exercise in, basically, interpreting religious and cultural archaeology.
I follow a modern reconstruction, based on what we think we know about the beliefs, practices and culture of the pre-Christian northwestern European people we have come to know as Germans and Scandinavians.
I have worn a Mjolnir pendant every hour of the day since 9 July 1988, even have one tattooed on my upper right arm. Have a runic tattoo of the god Uller's name over my heart as he is the Holy One who inspires me the most.
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Philip Joseph Ryan
Well, you're not really a Norse pagan, now are you? You're an American, and the Norse only settled in neighbouring countries, such as the UK.
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Steven Michael Hackett
Not true, the Norse were in North America long before Columbus. They were all over the north-eastern coast, and it's one of the reasons Minnesota has a football team called the Vikings. (Among other evidence, of course)
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Philip Joseph Ryan
Please provide documented proof that the Norse settled the Americas. Even if there were one small settlement, it would stretch credulity to claim ancestry. For some unfathomable reason, some Americans like to claim they are different because of x, y, or z, when the reality is that they are just American, and that's the heritage that they are stuck with.
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T Kosse`
A second attempt at settlement was made by Leif’s half-sister Freydis who, according to Erik the Red’s Saga, had already been to Vinland as part of Karlsefni’s expedition. She had played her part in repelling the Skræling attack, terrifying them by baring one of her breasts and beating it with a sword. Freydis was an abrasive woman, unsuited to leader ship, and her attempt at settlement ended when half the party were killed in a deadly internecine feud. Only one further voyage to Vinland is recorded. In 1121 Erik Gnupsson, the bishop of Greenland, set out for Vinland but the fate of his expedition is not known.
What proved beyond doubt that this was a Norse settlement was the large number of metal artefacts discovered at the site, including wrought iron ship rivets and a typically Scandinavian bronze ring pin. Stone loom weights and a spindle whorl provided evidence for weaving at the site. As this was a female activity in Viking Scandinavia, this confirmed the saga accounts of women taking part in the Norse voyages of exploration. Radiocarbon dates from organic matter at the site show that it was occupied briefly, between 980 and 1020, which accords well with the saga traditions.
The environment around L’Anse aux Meadows bears little resemblance to the saga descriptions of Vinland. Winters there are severe and there are no wild grapes so it is unlikely to be Leifsbuðir. It is more likely that L’Anse aux Meadows was a base for expeditions further south. That such expeditions took place is proved by the presence of butternuts among food remains on the site. An American species of walnut, butternuts grow no further north than New Brunswick, 500 miles to the south
So, if Vinland was not at L’Anse aux Meadows, where was it? Helluland and Markland can fairly certainly be identified as Baffin Island and Labrador respectively but the saga descriptions of Vinland contain mutually incompatible details. The salmon described in Leif’s account place Vinland north of the Hudson river and the grapes place it south of the St Lawrence. That would be somewhere in the Canadian Maritimes or New England, but there are no frost-free winters north of Chesapeake Bay.
The length of the shortest day is no help in determining Vinland’s latitude because it is not based on clock times – the Vikings did not have clocks – so, unless there are new archaeological discoveries, we’ll probably never know the location of Vinland.
The Norse attempt to settle Vinland was fleeting – it was all over in about 20 years and probably involved fewer than 200 people. It was doomed to failure. The distances were too great, the small Greenland colony did not have the population to support a colonizing venture and their iron weapons did not give the Norse a decisive advantage over the far more numerous natives.
Yet this was not the end of the Norse presence in North America. The Greenland colony survived until the mid-15th century when the impact of the Little Ice Age killed it off. The Greenlanders continued to sail to Markland to cut wood until at least as late as 1347 and they travelled high into the Arctic, hunting polar bears, seals and walrus. There, around 1170, they met with the Thule Inuit, and these contacts continued until the end of the colony. Norse artefacts have been found on many Thule sites in the Canadian Arctic and a probable Norse hunting camp has recently been identified at Tanfield Valley on Baffin Island.
Judged objectively, the impact of the Norse discovery of America was slight. News of the Norse discoveries soon reached Europe but it did not change Europeans’ world view in the way that Columbus’s later discovery did: no one suspected that Vinland was part of a new continent. There is no evidence that Columbus knew about Vinland when he set out on his fateful voyage in 1492. As far as Native Americans were concerned, the Norse voyages might as well never have happened – they had no influence whatsoever on North America’s cultural development.
Despite this, Thorvald Eriksson’s fatal encounter with the Skrælings does mark a significant moment in world history: it was the end of humanity’s 70,000-year journey out of Africa. The descendents of peoples who had left Africa and migrated east through Asia to the Americas had finally met the descendents of people who had left Africa and migrated west. The circle of the world was finally closed.
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Andrea Dillon
🤲💓💓💓💓🌹
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Daniel Gray
Um Greenland and Iceland are NOT north america. its clear you failed geography
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Steven Michael Hackett
Straying a bit from the OP, but just a quick Google search throws up the following articles: http://www.heeve.com/middle-ages-history/norse-discovery-of-america.html#:~:text=The%20evidence%20of%20an%20earlier%20Norse%20discovery%20of,AD%20990%20%2B%2F-%2030.%20Saga%20of%20the%20Greenlanders
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidanderson/2019/07/22/vikings-in-north-america-new-evidence-points-to-extended-occupation-in-newfoundland/?sh=1638041a146d
https://www.britannica.com/story/did-the-vikings-discover-america
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15040888
Also, to say someone is "just American" is a bit of a misnomer as well, considering the extreme melting pot that makes someone "American". We have Asian-American, African-Americans, Native Americans, Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, etc., and every variety in between because of the amount of people who left their native countries for one reason or another to settle in the New World. We have families that were European just a handful of generations ago who fled Europe to escape the Nazis during WW II.
To try and redirect this back to the original topic, the Ohio Native Americans are the ones who can claim they are "just American". :)
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John Komorowski
Do your own research lazy boy, or are you just being "confrontational with your ignorance. BTW, Ever hear of Leif Erickson?
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Robert A Stiff
You don't seem capable of making a comment without attacking and criticizing. You should think about why you are driven to do this. It's quite sad.
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John Komorowski
You seem incapable of looking up information. I attack ignorance and you display it, by trying to shame me. You are the biggest offender. Oh, as for who I am to attack? A person who dislikes folks like you, one who cannot argue coherently, and wants facts and figures laid out for him so he can say, no, that's not right. Your type always have an out for not doing the work. I'm done with you.
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John Komorowski
Oh, forgot, your "quite sad" comment struck me as funny. I pity you, as you don't know the level of your own ignorance. "Quite sad."
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Andrea Dillon
Lots of Native American and Norwegian mixed bloods.. I have the linage to prove! I'm 50% Irish (mother) 35 % Native American and 15% Norwegian (Father) Lots of documents to prove 🤲💓
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Emanuel Shajhef Quinton
America is bigger than just the United States... Canada is just as American as Brazil.
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John Komorowski
Nah, Canada is America's backyard, eh? ;-)
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Martin L Stigleman
So, what you are saying is that, since Jesus was Hebrew, all Christians have to be of Hebrew descent? You can't be Roman Catholic if you are Hawaiian? Religion IS NOT racially based. Norse Pagan is a following, not a Nationality.
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Minister Mike
Lordy, the entertainment value of religious zealots of any color, size, or shape is astronomical!
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John Komorowski
Except that some of that 'entertainment ' might cause harm.
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Master Wolf KSC
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. It is rude, graceless, and unfriendly to go to someone else’s sacred side and not follow their tradition. It would be one thing if the group of Christians had gone to the site, stood on the path and silently prayed. Climbing up the mound is a lot like climbing on top of a sepulcher in a Christian cemetery and chanting to some other god. Even better manners would be to ask the Native Americans present how to pray. That might be very difficult for these Christians who think that theirs is the only way, and everyone else is just wrong.
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Dave J
I was going to add a comment, but this says it succinctly and without rancor. Something I am not sure I could manage. Well done, Master Wolf.
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Emanuel Shajhef Quinton
I agree whole heartedly. A guest should never make themselves comfortable in someone elses house. One should always be mindful and resepectful and show at least a modicum of common sense.
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Devon W MacDuff
So right on that I had to comment on your post. Thanks for posting.
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David Arthur Lewis
You sum up the situation succinctly. The arrogance of White Privilege reeks to high heaven.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
I had a distinct feeling of awe the time I was able to visit Cahokia and climb the main structure.
While I do not know if these Native Americans are in fact lineal descendants of the Mound Builders, I believe they can be Cultural Descendants and pay honor to Ancestors and their Legacy.
That is part of the worldview of the modern Heathen religion to which I adhere.
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Brandon Francis Hakulin
I agree with Master Wolf as well. For a long time I associated religion with witch burnings, the Crusades, and children being abused. I was think of religion as more of an institution, rather than a relationship with God and a fellowship of my brothers and sisters. By the grace of god and plenty of hopelessness and suffering, I found the light and was freed of the things that were distracting and blocking me off from being healed and able to aid others in healing. The more understanding and accepting we are of others, the more inviting is the pathway to salvation and healing.
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John Cecil Hill Jr
I am sorry that you feel you own GOD'S COUNTRY and His LAND my friend, The price he payed was with his Blood, so that his follower's would be able to have redemption of their sins through his death and resurrection! We are guaranteed the right to pray anywhere on this earth he has created for us, by (Our God), the one who gave his only Begotten Son, so that whosoever shall believeth in him, would not perish, but, have life Everlasting.
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Liysa Swart
I'm sorry John, but you represent the worst of us. You give religion a bad name.
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I feel it was extremely disrespectful what they did. They basically, in a sense, was trying to force what they believe onto the Native American sacred site! It was very rude and unchristian like, in my opinion. That would be like a group of Catholics forcing their way into a Baptist church, for example, and insisting the Catholic beliefs is right over the Baptist beliefs. Wrong in so many ways! The Native Americans had every right to defend their ancient sacred site!!! Who gave this group of christians the right to do what they did? Basically breaking into the House of the other! If they had gone to the site with Love and Peace, and prayed over the site, then there possibly would have been a different outcome. But it seems they went with everything but love and peace in their intent!