Amidst the highly controversial national anthem protests taking place across the National Football League, a number of schools have decided to institute "zero tolerance" policies toward kneeling or sitting on the sidelines. Last week, Colorado Christian University (CCU) made an official announcement on its social media pages. Authorities at the private school in Lakewood, CO, notified all student athletes that standing for the anthem will now be mandatory:
Echoing a sentiment voiced my many critics of the NFL protests, CCU's president Donald Sweeting believes that kneeling or sitting during the anthem conveys disrespect towards the flag and that such behavior must be prevented. "We ask students to stand out of respect for God, for our nation, and for those who are serving it or have served it," Sweeting said in a statement.
In response to criticism regarding the suppression of free speech, he explained that, "We just simply don't think that the anthem or the prayer before the game, for our athletes, is the appropriate venue for that (kneeling) to happen".
How It All Got Started
Last year, Colin Kaepernick (former quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers) received national attention when he refused to stand during the national anthem in protest of racial inequality and discriminatory policing. Many fans were critical of the protest, and Kaepernick was unable to find a job this year due to his actions. However, with Kaepernick out of the league, the media had largely turned its attention away from the issue.
That is, until President Trump took up the cause at rally in Alabama calling those who kneel "sons of bitches" who "should be fired" by the NFL.
Overnight, the number of NFL players protesting during the national anthem went from just a handful to over 200. The issue is once again making headlines across the country and triggering heated debate on both sides.
**More Schools Crack Down
**
In addition to Colorado Christian University, numerous high schools around the country are requiring players to stand for the anthem prior to games or face the consequences. At a private Christian high school in Texas, two players were kicked off the football team after choosing to kneel.
Other schools are warning student-athletes that there may be repercussions for "failure to comply" with official school anthem policy. Below is a letter sent by a Louisiana high school principal:
Forced Patriotism?
When polled, the majority of Americans think standing for the anthem should be mandatory. However, it's a narrow majority and many others are uncomfortable with the idea of enforcing such a policy.
Opponents make an interesting point: by forcing people to be patriotic, you entirely defeat the purpose. Patriotism is supposed to be organic, they argue. Using force or threats to make people conform only serves to create a phony image of patriotism that undercuts important tenets of personal freedom. Further, it does nothing to address the underlying social issues which helped spark the protests in the first place.
The Christian Thing to Do?
Given that CCU is a Christian school, it seems appropriate to pose the question: what would Jesus think of the protests? After all, Jesus dedicated his life to helping the poor, suffering, and marginalized. Those kneeling during the anthem are attempting to highlight important social issues affecting minority communities.
Is helping such groups not in line with Christ's teachings? Or is showing unconditional respect to the flag simply more important?
Let us know what you think.
337 comments
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Galin Pheylan
Giving false patriotism to a symbol, instead of the true meaning of that symbol is not patriotism. No, Messiah would not accept any forced belief, including how christianism took off after his death. Marrying Messiahs' Teachings with politics have caused many people to be tortured, imprisoned, and put to death. It does not seem to be dying out anytime soon. Messiah will tell many disciples in name only (taking the Name of their Lord in vain), "Depart from Me, you wicked people, I never knew you."
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Lea Weisenbach
Thumbs up
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Dragon Priest
So true. Jesus is not political and GOD is not a conservative republican!
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John Owens
He damned sure isn't an amoral democrat!
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hate the lier
An amoral democrat!!!??? If someone doesn't agree with you, you start name calling? Why don't these young men have the God given right to disagree, it's peaceful demonstration. And the last time I checked the news that wasn't a white man getting shot in the head as he had his hands cuffed behind his back (and his killer was found not guilty). We as Americans should all pay attention to the injustices that are happening all around us.
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John Owens
A) I didn't call anyone a name. I said God isn't an amoral democrat. B) And plenty of white men get shot. They just don't get the play the black ones do. C) I am not happy police often get away with crimes. I could just as easily fall victim as anyone else. The police shot and killed several bikers at a peaceful Confederation of Clubs meeting in Waco, TX a couple years ago, and then arrested everyone there, when it was nothing but a police ambush because of a beef between the sheriff and one of the clubs. Every bullet fired there was a police-issue. Not one casing from anything else. Not one police official has been charged with anything, and not one biker has been convicted of anything. Most of these bikers are men with jobs and families, a few retired.
D) God still certainly isn't an amoral democrat.
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Galin Pheylan
Aaahhhh! I think I hear violins playing, would you also like cheese with your Whine?
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John Owens
You must be talking to Tom. You damn sure aren't talking to me. Democrats and liberals in general are the whiners. That's all y'all know how to do, besides lie all the time and call names.
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Mike
HEY JOHN AMEN I Call em dummycrates. and they preach tolerance and Give None. I see 1937 with Hitler. Cept take away the SWASICKA and replace it with a Friggin Rainbow Peace sign. You know what I mean Brother. AMEN
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Dragon Priest
Dude it IS what it IS NOT! Never said democrat which is not either! Conservatism is a cancer eating at the soul of America BECAUSE it thinks it is right and holy. The True Creator Energy does not care a blithering bit about any of that stuff. It allows us to be idiots and get hit with a 2X4 across the noggin every single time for being fools until the lesson is learned. Source is the ultimate equalizer because we are allowed to be idiots until the lesson is learned and we are NEVER forced. Jesus never made up a religion about himself. Look it up. He never wanted to be worshiped as a "god". Man did that in utter idiocy and stupidity. His mission was to let us know what is possible, not to "save us" Which is stupid as you can't save what was never lost. All eventually return home, some just take a longer path. This might blow some minds but its what it is. Again, stop politicizing the Creator because it is not.
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John Owens
I'm not politicizing the Creator. I only said He is not an amoral democrat. I agree that Jesus' message was not really about Himself. His message was about the Kingdom of God. The churches of the world teach a false gospel that is just about Jesus dying for them and that they no longer have to obey God as a way of life.
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David
My grandfather served, my father served, I served, my son is serving. My kneeling during the National Anthem, you disrespect me and my family and what so many have died to give you.
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Brother Phil
If you've served so that people do not have the right to protest, that seems counter to what you were supposed to be serving for. Freedom of speech, especially unpopular speech, was what was given as a right in the Constitution. It is specifically the act of protesting the government that was asked for. To be honest, black Americans get criticized no matter how they protest. If they peaceably assemble, they are a mob blocking traffic, if any of them riot, they are all thugs, if they take a knee, they are disrespecting the flag. They literally cannot do anything that white Americans as a whole approve of, because you don't like the message.
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John
However, these few kneeling are doing absolutely nothing other than self recognition. Do you see them going into the troubled neighborhoods where innocent people are being gunned down on a daily basis by gangs and thugs? No, do you see them sitting down with local, state and national agencies to see how better things may be approached. Rather than stir up a nation that is already troubled, do something meaningful. Not take a knee or raise a closed fist....that accomplishes more problems than actually trying to solve the problems. The worst violators? The camera and video operators who go around at free will putting these very few in the "limelight". Why don't they pan the thousands that are standing in the audience, better yet, why don't they just put their camera on the flag and stand like the rest of the majority, not the minority. Don't people find this odd that all this stuff about statues and national anthem hasn't stirred up in the past administrations????There are groups of people that are bitter because their candidate wasn't elected. The previous president was in office for 8 years as well as the president before that one...that was a minimum of 16 years that you heard nothing about statues and protesting the national anthem....Freedom of speech? I don't think so.
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agburstein
The generalization that the protesters are not actively engaged in other forms of social action is an unwarranted aspersion.
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John Owens
Show us evidence, Rabbi Burstein. Even a generalization is GENERALLY true. Evidence. Haven't seen any. All I see is stuff about the popo, who shot a total of 16 unarmed black men last year. I don't know how many unarmed white men they shot, but probably a lot more, since white people don't riot (except for ANTIFA, who are ethnically diverse), while black people killed 2500 black people last year. Hell, Chicago alone has more killed every weekend. All I hear is racism. How about, "We're screwing up, too?"
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John Owens
Left-wing press would rather film three butt-heads with protest placards chanting stupid things than 5000 having a prayer vigil or listening to a sermon.
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Bradums
Kaepernick was the one who started it over the murders of black citizens by police who were let off.
He's also been extremely engaged with the public about it, and has donated millions to related charities and functions.
Google is a wonderful tool, you just have to have an open-mind and be willing to accept that your convenient assumptions might be wrong when using it.
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Grey Horse
Correct, brother.
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Mike
WELL BROTHERS and SISTERS,
Ya Know a LEFTIST Counist or Socialist Govern ment Breaks the CHURCH First from aiding those in need THEN it takes the Guns, ( Or swords, Or axes) you Know what I mean though.. A non spirited UN ARMED populous is easier to control. Think about it. THE CLINTONIAN RULE EFFORT>
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
David kneel! Kneel as you see damn well fit! F 'em! They are anything but tolerant! they are hateful spiteful bigots! I am in Oregon... and this State is ran by the K! These people are bigot scumbags!
land of tolerance? YEA! So long as you are WHITE MAINSTREAM CHRISTIAN!
Their day IS coming!
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John Owens
If Oregon were run by the K, you would not be there. It is obvious you are the bigot here, and more than a little bit unhinged.
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Lashaun franklin
You are correct God and his son Jesus gave us Free will and this is rediculus to force such rediculus stuff on people.
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James
Crybabies!
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Galin Pheylan
Yes, that is right, keep right on "crying" to your christianisms hell. Sounds like you will right at home.
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James
So now I'm going to hell? Respect, order, fear, organization is all part of the rule of law. Even Jesus said to submit to kings because God placed them in power. Free will cause chaos and God sets up a system to balance things. Just like a family. No mom, or dad the child is unbalanced. Then we have an unstable person. Can the function? Yes, but not at the best possible level. Just like this sports issue. They are thinking about drama instead of the game. Thus, they aren't profroming at their best level possible. That being said, why play to see political protest instead of sports? I'm not going to and I'll keep my family from it as well!
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John Owens
Amen, James.
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Barry
Showing patriisim has nothing to do with christanity.The term GOD is not a Christian only term.
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Danah Franklin
You are right and its not about a flag it about injustice the same type Jesus received with such opposion.
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Lea Weisenbach
We all should stand for the anthem out of respect for all that have fault to defend freedom. This country has gone throu a lot of changes for the better. This country has a lot of crimes to humanity because of religion. This country is not a Christian country and say it is ..is against out constitution. Separate church and state..
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Andy
You may want to re-read the constitution - there is no separation of church and state.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
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Mike
AMEN JUDY !! n the Preamble it says DO ORDAIN and establish.. Look up ORDAIN. WAIT YOU ALL HERE are MINISTERS??? Havent you BEEN ORDAINED? WTF? EHH??
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ndbarnes1970
you should read a history book and realize that this country isn't what you think it is. they chose a peaceful protest against the Injustice that African Americans have received from the legal system in this country since almost the beginning of time. Be thankful they're not in the streets rioting
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Wendy
Interesting. It's fine for a private school. They get to make their own rules. Public schools not so much. This was settled in a Supreme Court case all the way back in 1943. I'm sure the ACLU will be all over this, and rightly so!
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Gerald (Jerry) Gay
Love Your Neighbor was the Christian mandate from the beginning. Kneeling in respect is simply saying, " we as a nation need to put aside all distractions and keep loving everyone" - making this a part of our pledge of allegiance as a Christian - one nation under God.
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Dan Atatakai
Jerry - You DO know that "one nation under God" was not put into the pledge of allegiance until 1954 because of the "Red Scare" of the Cold War with the U.S.S.R., right?
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Lea Weisenbach
Yes..but no one what's to know the truth.
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Danah Franklin
Thanks Dan because people are acting delusional it seems people are making the flag apart of Christianity. There took different things it like saying please worship this flag and song it the same thing your making people do something they don't believe in.
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Malad City
It doesn't matter when it was put in, it should remain in and practice everywhere, "In God We Trust" should mean something, our founding fathers where all God fearing men. And so should this nation.
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Galin Pheylan
One Nation, all right, but with many religious beliefs; remember, "This Nation is not a christian nation, nor hindu, jewish, muslim...etc." If this was a christian nation in the beginning, which First People were christan? Or, which of the sects of christianism was the true one, since many of the sects hated one another (so much for christan love), to the point of torturing, jailing, maiming, and jailing each other. So, when was this "Natiion" ever truly Christ-like? And, where in christianisms' book (which is what the word bible means) does it say to pledge your allegiance to a flag, or a natiion? Are not the basic, "Love the Lord, your God with all your heart and soul, and Love your neighbor as yourself" the true pledges someone who claims the Title of Christ should give their allegiance to? Keep your religion out of my religion, and your religion out of government. The United States Government belongs to us all, not just to those of christianisms' faith.
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Galin Pheylan
Sorry for misspellings, and "jailing each other" should be "killing each other."
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Sara
Actually, Jerry, love your neighbor is a Jewish mandate from the Ten Commandments.
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Dan Atatakai
While I am not one who believes that standing for the national anthem or the flag should be a mandatory issue, I am one who believes in the freedom to protest injustices occurring in society by whatever peaceful means necessary to get the point across.
As for a private school making it mandatory, that IS their right to make that demand because it is a private school and not subject to all of the laws of the land, including that of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
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Tom B
Dan...private schools are subject to the Constitution...parochial schools have certain flexibility as religious institutions, but i feel they would have a problem imposing some theoretical, religious directive on an essentially secular activity....Tom
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Tom B
Once again i find it odious that ULC considers censorship....
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Sara
I agree totally. Private schools can demand anything they want to within decency and reason. But in our country overall state and church should be strictly separate. God and country, soil and blood, love it or leave it, etc., etc. are not sentiments that should foisted on others. Thank goodness we in the U.S. are free from being forced to comply. Peaceful protest is being patriotic if the country you live in and care about is doing something you feel is wrong.
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Galin Pheylan
Thank you, Sara.
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mary
Yes indeed.
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Malad City
That's it, let's all just cast our individual belief into the wind and hope they end up in the proper order, "there is order in all things" without it , confusion and frustration takes place. It's not supposed to be so complicated, Love Thy neighbor, with that one simple thought we could live with peace and understanding. It takes true faith .
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Tom B
As long as there is no disruption, people should be free to stand or not...nothing will happen to the country if everyone does not stand (or even if the national anthem is excised from sporting events)...Tom
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John Maher
RATIONAL THINKING TOM and if EVERYONE THOUGHT RATIONALLY there WOULD NOT BE SO MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING, DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP, HAIL to the THIEF DOTAR
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Tom B
Thanks, John...i agree this is being blown up from a minor issue...there are far more important things to consider in life...Tom
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Galin Pheylan
I agree.
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Tom B
Thank you, Shining Wolf...Tom
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Rev. Nancy Willingham
Despite all the noise, this is not a free speech issue. The real meaning of "fee speech" pertains only to government action. The constitution guarantees that the government cannot suppress free speech, which has been interpreted to include symbolic speech, like flag burning. Any law prohibiting flag burning, for instance, would be unconstitutional. However, nothing prohibits a private group, a private school or univesity, a football franchise or a corporation from regulating who can say what or how in the course of their employment. Most corporations have such rules regulating their employees. No profanity, no messages on T-shirts, etc. All of this regulation is aimed at increasing profits. So, If the football club owners say no kneeling during the national anthem, that is their right, and their motivation will be ticket sales. In fact, they already have a whole list of things the players are not allowed to do on the field, all in order to keep the game as profitable as possible. Football is entertainment and it is big business. So, in the end, it will be up to the fans who decide, because without them there will be no millionaire players protesting their oppression.
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Tierney
It might be useful to point out here how this whole NFL/national anthem thing got started. It's not like it was self-motivated by patriotism. Like most things in this country, it began with money. http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/us/nfl-national-anthem-trump-kaepernick-history-trnd/index.html
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Beth K
The "zero tolerance" thing for standing for the National Anthem is problematic. I remember an especially-scary situation that happened in the 1960s. My mother was a polio survivor - she was in a wheelchair, incapable of standing. She was pretty a-political, and would put her hand over her heart. Once, somebody decided she was protesting, and would not take that sort of protest. Several people pulled her up out of the wheelchair to a stand, then let go. She fell to the ground, and sustained injuries. The assailants got away, but this is the kind of thing you get from "everyone must stand under any circumstances". Her injuries could have been much worse, as might be the case if such a thing were done to an older person.
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Galin Pheylan
This is very sad! Yes, I agree; when christianism, and/or government declares patriotic worship, many persons will become fanaticals, which leads to violence, crime against others, death, and false worship, and belief. When will Mankind, as a whole grow up, and we, as a whole, become true thinking adults, instead of staying children in our mentality, and followers only? Spirit, help us grow into Your adult children!
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Sara
Dear Beth, I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to your mother. This kind of thing happens when people's sense of patriotism and other isms become so fanatic and distorted that they resort to violence to uphold them. We've reached an abyss in our country when our president relies on people like this to support his presidency. Besides that, reasonable people of all beliefs and political persuasions need to reclaim civility and decency so we can work together to solve the problems our country faces.
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Mark A. White
If a person is physically incapable of standing,placing their hand over their heart should be enough.
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John Owens
Yes. Some people have no legs or do not have use of them. They are not expected to stand.
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Malad City
Standing anyone up out of a wheelchair for anything against their will is just about the craziest thing you can do, just no common sense at work there, next thing we'll be trying to stand babies up out of their stroller, "common sense ".
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John Owens
Oh, good grief! What sad lives people must lead to be concerned about trivialities like POOR STUDENTS HAVING TO SHOW LOYALTY TO THE NATION IN WHICH THEY RESIDE!!! Oh, the inhumanity!!!! The kneeling is an impotent form of protest anyway, performed by constant complainers who REALLY want to go and live somewhere else, but lack the courage and marketable skills to pick a place and make the journey, knowing no other country would tolerate them or support their laziness and insolence. They might as well just get rifles and shoot innocent civilians who love this country--OH! Somebody on their side (the side that wants to take weapons away from civilians) already did that. Sorry. Well, at least they know whose side they support, so, kneel away. I wonder if they kneel to God, too? You know, if they were kneeling to pray, in public, it might actually mean something, but this, this is like a child holding its breath or sticking out its tongue, almost cute. The "fanaticals" shiningwolf mentioned are the ones kneeling and those supporting them and hurling things at demonstrators, not the patriotic people. One fanatical was shooting at patriotic people this weekend. A brother to the kneelers and leftists, if anything the news is telling us is true.
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Galin Pheylan
You are a sad person who wants your own way. I hope you grow up one day.
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Minister Kelley
Seems like YOU may also be one that committed to having your own way. What’s that about the plank in one’s own eye...???
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Galin Pheylan
Being for Justice is not wanting my own way. To bad "minister" Kelly does not understand this.
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John Owens
Yep. Can't see yourself at all, can you? "Being for justice". How full of yourself.
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John Owens
For real, Kelley. Some of them seem totally incapable of any introspection. They're doing all the fanatical crap, and blaming it on the people actually making the nation operate.
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Rev. Marsh
John, Take your hood off so you can see what's really happening out in this America. Make America Great Again? Peaceful protest is allowed under the constitution. Should you be fired when you drive around in your truck with your confederate flag waving? NO, it's your right to protest that the Union won the war!!!!
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John Owens
Marsh, your idiotic comment is so full of hate, prejudice, and bigotry and you cannot even see it because you are a Nazi.
A) I'm assuming the hood you mention is supposed to a Klan hood, which I have never worn and would never wear, and not a hoodie like Trayvon Martin was wearing. I would also never wear a swastika or hang one up or have anything resembling one. THAT IS YOUR HATE-SPEECH PREJUDICE CRAP FAUX-PAS # 1 B) You ASSUME I drive a pickup truck which I do not. I have a Jeep Compass. Little soccer-mom station-wagon. Faux-pas#2. C) I have never flown nor owned a Confederate flag in my life. Faux-pas # 3.
You have painted a picture in your mind of me which is totally false and baseless, so that you can justify your own hate and bigotry. I demand that you UNPAINT it right now.
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Wendy
Rev. Marsh, Shh! Don't feed the troll!
Peaceful protest is not only allowed under the Constitution, peaceful protest by students has been upheld by the Supreme Court on several occasions. I think this statement, from Tinker vs. Des Moines Independent Community School District ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/393/503 ) is one of the most powerful and defining statements about the Unites States: "But, in our system, undifferentiated fear or apprehension of disturbance is not enough to overcome the right to freedom of expression. Any departure from absolute regimentation may cause trouble. Any variation from the majority's opinion may inspire fear. Any word spoken, in class, in the lunchroom, or on the campus, that deviates from the views of another person may start an argument or cause a disturbance. But our Constitution says we must take this risk, Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1 (1949); and our history says that it is this sort of hazardous freedom -- this kind of openness -- that is [p509] the basis of our national strength and of the independence and vigor of Americans who grow up and live in this relatively permissive, often disputatious, society." -
John Owens
Ah, I see Wendy is still panting for my attention, puddling no doubt when she gets it, and calling names again, OF WHICH ACTION SHE LIKES TO ACCUSE OTHERS. It's really hypocritical of her to call ME a troll, after Irrev. Marsh talked all this Obama-style bigoted stereotyping about me. It shows a serious lack of introspection, toilet training, upbringing, and a level of indoctrination only paralleled by the Red Chinese under Mao and perhaps the North Koreans. Even when she calls names she has no imagination but spouts the party B.S. Once again, Wendy, stop flirting with me.
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Galin Pheylan
Reread your own Posts, you will find out who is doing the blaming and whinning.
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John Owens
Now you are just being totally ignorant and somewhat illiterate, I think.
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Mike
ULC Becomes the IAAA ( IGNORANTE APPATHETIC AMERICANS ASSOCIATION..
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Mike
GOD Bless you John. Unless ULC becomes less LEFTIST and Semi Leftist Militant I am Leaving this Deal
But GOD BLESS YOU!! Be Safe amongst the ignorant and dictators.
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John Owens
You see, everyone, the LEFT here claims it is freedom of speech for the kneelers that is important. That right applies equally to those of us who disapprove or are offended by the kneeling. We can boycott anyone, anywhere, anytime, and we can express our disdain and disapproval as much as we like. AND WE SHALL, even if they are unable to see right and wrong, and even if they accuse of all the things they themselves are doing, to try to make us stop. We will not stop. When the tribulation hits, they will be among the first to be wiped out, because of their willful lack of useful knowledge or any skill that will preserve life.
Mike, bless you too, and please do not go. We have to be witnesses and voices of reason to these poor, misguided souls who are staggering around in spiritual and intellectual darkness, all the while being deluded that they are somehow enlightened. Any voice of reason here will overcome all of their arguments because their arguments are so hollow and one-dimensional. Reason and truth are not subject to popularity and opinion, but exist on their own, and like God, do not change.
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Brother Phil
John,
Your biases and inability to think for yourself are rather apparent in your comment. Thv e information about the shooter being left wing was intentional false information spread by 4-Chan. Since the cause has yet to be determined, it would be too early to state his political intentions. Perhaps it would be betst in cases such as tragedies like these that we wait before casting judgement on 50% of the country as murderers and sociopaths.
As to the kneeling, heaven forbid that anyone say something you disagree with. Poor adults having to deal with the fact that loyalty to the nation sometimes means protesting current actions. Blind loyalty isn't patriotism, were it that were the case, the founding fathers would be considered unpatriotic. Keep in mind that the colonists had physical riots and we now consider them patriots. They destroyed property, killed, incited riots, tarred and feathered government agents, and tried British soldiers for defending themselves.
As to gun violence in this country, the vast number of gun incidents are suicides which make up 2/3 of gun violence in America. Most of those suicides are by white men. It would seem that there is indeed a gun problem in the US. White men own most of the guns in the US and commit most of the gun crimes because of this. The vast majority of gun owners are white, male, and conservative.
If you or anyone feels suicidal, there are people who will listen. There's no shame in calling or chatting if you prefer:
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255
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John Owens
Gee, thanks for that sage advice, Phil, but the fact he was shooting a country music gathering is evidence he is left wing, that and him being at an anti-trump rally, plus the fact that conservatives are not mass-murderers because they are much more stable than NON-conservatives, but go ahead and think your BS all you want.
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biblical scholar
Timothy McVeigh was a registered Republican and NRA member, is that evidence that all domestic terrorists are republicans? Give me a break John.
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John Owens
We already know ALL domestic terrorists are not republicans BECAUSE THIS GUY WAS A DOMESTIC TERRORIST. There's your break.
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Mike
Yeah Left wing GUN CONTROL Fanatics Arming up. Not the first time.
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John Owens
Your commentary is absolutely riddled with absolute lies, PHIL.
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bob
Bob
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shrek
mynamejeff
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phil
I believe God is with America because if there wasn't America you wouldn't be having this conversation at all. People should respect this great country and not feel forced to be patriotic. They should be happy they are here in America and pray we continue to be here.
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seedwomyn
I think it's divisive and smacks of Naziism. I also feel that all national anthems in every country creates the "us against them" mentality of separation. Where is the love of a fellow sentient being great or small? We are all of one Earth--Earthlings--divided by invisible borders put in place aeons ago by warring conquerors that continues to this day. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Who of us is willing to be the change for peace that Gandhi posited? As long as people are forced to do and be what those in power would have us do and be which takes away our individual sovereignty there will be protests. Either get use to it, or live and let live.
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Galin Pheylan
Yes !
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Leah Glass
No one should judge these student but God and we tend to play like we're God a little to much. We all need to understand it's not about disrespect. It's a human thing and we need to all go back and read the words to the full anthem instead of the few words people sing.
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Minister Kelley
I would have less an issue with the protest if it was based on a legitimate issue - but it is not. Law breakers and hoodlums and those who disregard police officers’ instructions (or who assault the police) are often met with an unhappy but well deserved end.
If these guys want to protest, how about sitting out a few games or a whole season without pay...then we would see how committed they are to their phony cause. Their behavior is disgusting and disrespectful.
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Shelley A
Sad part is the conversation in allnof your posts has shifted and moved totally left. The issue is should one be allowed to exercise their first amendment right to free speech and keep during the Pledge of Allegiance. Free speech in this country is only protected by the first amendment when it does not entice riots or create havoc. People have many comments mostly negative and insensitive because they don't know what it is like to live in nom white skin. I am an African American woman and have seen through out the course of history and present years that those individuals that are of another persuasion choose to deny or reject the fact that racism is real and happening because it doesn't directly affect them. This na tuin has been discriminating against a people that built this country off the sweat if there backs. All that is being asked is that we are treated witj dignity and respect. Lately the racism that has been covert is now overt with a cover that Minorities looking their lives. For all those that commented take a step back and think of someone other than yourselves. This is not about ticket sales or being unpatriotic this is about raising awareness for an injustice that stems from our history. How can you be patriotic towasrd a country that has and continues to treat Minorities as they do not matter. We matter when it convenient. Not fair. White peiple in this country are born with a certain right. Others not so lucky. So what would Jesus do. As he says Love your neighbor. There is not enough love in this world and support is only given when it's comfortable. Colin Kaepernick should be commended because he stood up for what he believes in and most don't agree but he started a peacfule movement that has made people scared because light is being shed on how our country treats it's own residents. So again I day look at the bigger issue and if you dont understand the plight don't speak on it because you are ignorant to the facts. If you don't walk in the skin of an African American you have No IDEA. Stop pushing under the rug that certain things are not happening because you are of a privileged race with entitlement of life and will never no the misery of being discriminated against in a country that says home of the free land of the brave, one nation under GOD. Not true for all. The national anthem is a ritual. No disrespect to those who fought to preserve this country. Government has more power than God. The separation of the two has this country in shambles start reading your bibles and learn the word. Your idolizing the flag because of a parasitic government demand. You choose government over Jesus. Good luck, if you are truly believers you have to meet your judgement. Figure out who your God is? God is in control, wake up and pay attention. Have a blessed day to you all in Jesus Name.
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Chad Ali
We should always show respect for our country. If people hate our flag and the national anthem the should leave. Stand up and show respect, only people that are weak take a knee. I will only kneel for my Lord.
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John Owens
Amen, Chad.
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shrek
listen buddy its their choice to kneel and its a pretty good choice i mean "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people, and people of color" is a good cause so fuck the anthem its just a song and we're all gonna die at some point and so is that song so just let them protest
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Roger Williams
chadwhiteboy666. The National Anthem and the Nations Flag had zero to do with this stupid ass protest.. It's uneducated Liberals Democrats such as yourself who start this crap.. The idiot Colin Kaeppernick was protesting against Police... If you don't like our country's Flag or it's National Anthem..? Then why the hell in our country..? Why don't you and all the other little whiny ass Liberals and Democrats get out of our country..?
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shrek
"our country" what did you do to deserve it , did you fight for it ? did you build it from scratch ? did you write the dumbass anthem ? make the flag ? its only yours cause you were born there , and so were they and for them life isn't the say than for you so they protest to try to make the country they were born in or choose to live better , in either way its just a piece of land so after i made my libtard comment ill add a song just for you (dont read into it dipshit)
Standing at the crossroads, trying to read the signs To tell me which way I should go to find the answer, And all the time I know, Plant your love and let it grow Let it grow, let it grow, Let it blossom, let it flow In the sun, the rain, the snow, Love is lovely, let it grow Looking for a reason to check out of my mind, Trying hard to get a friend that I can count on, But there's nothing left to show, Plant your love and let it grow Let it grow, let it grow, Let it blossom, let it flow In the sun, the rain, the snow, Love is lovely, so let it grow, let it grow Time is getting shorter and there's much for you to do Only ask and you will get what you are needing, The rest is up to you Plant your love and let it grow Let it grow, let it grow, Let it blossom, let it flow In the sun, the rain, the snow, Love is lovely, let it Let it grow, let it grow, Let it blossom, let it flow In the sun, the rain, the snow, Love is lovely, let it grow
from the borax
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Tom B
Beautiful...nothing is more important....musically via Eric Clapton....Tom
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Dawn Pisturino
You sound like a really miserable human being. Yes, you should leave the United States and live somewhere else.
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Prof. ML Watrous
When those complaining, narcissistic, privileged, nitwits learn to put the other knee down ... and then complain to the one who can actually do something about their complaints ... they might actually get something done. Otherwise, these are just a bunch of misguided, attention-seeking, pampered whiners. But ... you cannot pet or please a rabid dog with any success... and this bunch is mad, and it is impossible to satisfy their incessant whining and complaining because they love the attention (and money they generate).
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Brother Phil
You're absolutely right. The false Christians in this country really have forgotten the lessons espoused in the Bible.
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John Owens
Amen, Prof. ML.
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John Owens
...and Phil
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Bill
Why don't you just say what you mean and call these young men the N.. word and there team mates N... lovers? that's what you really want to say. I thought this was a Christian web site. Oh that's right the kkk was founded by a bunch of God fearing whites. Make America Great Again!!!!
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John Owens
You must be a racist, Bill. In fact, if I overheard you say the N word, I'd probably kick the living crap out of you. I'd certainly challenge you. I have MC brothers of many colors, and very close FAMILY who are black or half-black, and I find your racist comment very offensive, and Christians are a minority here.
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Mike
NORMAL LEFT WING STANCE you don't agree with me... YOUR a racist...
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Mike
BUT TOLERATE ME I Want tolerance. WHAT YOU Don't seem to be tolerand to my demands YOU MUST BE a RACIST.
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John Owens
He IS, as evidenced by the fact that he was thinking the N word.
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Amber
Private schools do have a broader range of what they can mandate, but they still need to abide by laws and constitutional rights. I think it becomes sticky when a school is private though, when students can choose another school. If enough of the students decide it's too much they can put their money elsewhere.
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John Owens
Even public schools are not democracies, and they tell students how they can dress, although they lean to the left.
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Wendy
There's usually some sort of contract that parents and/or students have to sign before students are allowed to attend private schools, and students do have to agree to abide by the codes of conduct and rules of the schools. That can limit certain behaviors to a degree, but it's done by choice of the person whose rights are being limited, and that person has the option of leaving (or disobeying and getting kicked out). Private schools don't have to abide by the First Amendment because the First Amendment only applies to what the government can't do.
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Lisa A OBrien
Jesus, His Kingdom is no part of this world. Those who follow Christ are no part of its separatism or patriotism. Remember the 3 Hebrew boys who would not do an act of worship to the statue that Nebuchadnezzar erected. God saved them from a burning fire. And as far as this country goes-Freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom to demonstrate are suppose to be protected by its Constitution. Where is that Freedom? Is America Christian? If they were all would love God and their neighbor as self and would promote Love and abide by Thou shalt not kill. Who is Mr. Trump that he should call anyone sons of bitches? I go with the Pagan Rede on this--Do as you will Harm None.
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Jerry G Fallin
Stand for the flag and kneel for the cross. Nice n simple.
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John Owens
Amen, Jerry.
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Dragon Priest
Not when evil has come wrapped in the flag and holding a cross...
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John Owens
Have you ever actually even seen such a ridiculous thing, or is that just hyperbolic stereotyping?
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Gerry
It is a matter of individual conscience to kneel or stand for the national anthem. USA has a very patriotic population in general much more so than in the UK, where standing for the national anthem is not obligatory perhaps only for members of the armed forces, we are more cynical in the UK than USA citizens. It is best people make up their own minds to kneel or stand, as the state of itself may serve its own needs rather than the interests of its citizens. In USA you have access to guns and Las Vegas saw over fifty people murdered and hundreds injured, is access to guns a good idea. Well so it's for individuals and they can justify their own morality, and I doubt that it has much to do with Christianity as the USA is a secular republic, and does not have a state church like the Church Of England, and Americans are more religious than British where again we are cynical of the purpose and role of establishment whether Church or Government.
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DIP
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
End of story, let's move on to other things in life that are much more important. Stop the killings, starvation, disease famine, homelessness, caring for one another, being a good neighbor, work together as human beings and all things that the Lord preached about. Amen
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Robert
Many people died for our flag and freedom. so we all should stand.this is respect and why we the people live in the USA.
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ndbarnes1970
Anyone who has not experienced being discriminated against because of the color of their skin really shouldn't have an opinion. It's like being a man against abortion...so what. no matter how strongly you feel for or against the situation you will never have first-hand knowledge of how it feels to be that person.
Anyone who feels that this protest has anything to do with the military and disrespecting those who served hasn't paid any attention at all. and rather than being upset with people of color who choose to protest peacefully rather than rioting and causing harm to others you should be more upset at this country for allowing you to serve and then not paying your medical bills or leaving you homeless in the streets.
Where were any of you when injustices are made against people of color? If all the "Christ Like" people stood up throughout history people of color wouldn't have to start movements. You should all be ashamed for speaking so ignorantly.... but it's not your fault you're the same type of people who stood by and let Jesus be crucified on the cross you're just playing your role
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william n Hodges
So since I have not been murdered I should not have an opinion on murder. Please think through you argument before putting it out for the world to see.
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John Owens
And since I'm not a pedophile, I can't have an opinion about pedophiles. I'm not a horse, so I can't say this horse is better than that horse. I'm not a priest, so I can't have an opinion about priests. If that logic is true, then black people can't talk about white people, because they just don't know what it's like to be white. You can't make short jokes, either, unless you are less than 5'-7" for a male, or 5'-5" for a female. Sob! Sniff! Nobody understands me!
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Tierney
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's the foundation of our great society! Your opinion doesn't have to be informed by experience, but it will be more valued if you have at least put in some effort to walk in another's shoes. If all you are concerned about is your own circumstance and benefit and not working with others who disagree with you, shut down all possibilities of coming to a place where we can live together in peace. Self-righteousness is akin to Pride, and a deadly sin.
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gail
MORE ON TAKING A KNEE: Borrowed from my friend’s FB... her son’s view -- it went viral. Sam, age 15 "Mom, I don't understand the outrage over people taking a knee. It's actually the most patriotic thing one can do when our anthem plays right now." I asked him to explain his train of thought. "My coach taught me you take a knee when a player is down from any team. You do it as a sign of respect and send energy to that player that he can not only get up, but not have an injury that he can't overcome. You're thanking him for a game hard played and hope he can join it soon. Both teams want the game to begin again, knowing their players are going to be ok and united in a show of camaraderie. Anyone with half a brain knows our country is injured, we have people down. It's time for all sides to take a knee and focus their energy on helping the injured so the game can go on. Our team, the U.S., is actually disrespectful if we stand and cheer while we have players down. I love my team, I care for its players. When the anthem plays I will take a knee and send energy to healing so that the team can play on."
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Mark Ross
what has been lost by those that oppose this type of protest, is what they are protesting. they are not protesting the flag, or disrespecting it. They are protesting racial and societal violence and injustice. Attempting to bring focus to these issues. In this sense, I do not understand how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can oppose such a lawful use of the right and liberty to protest.
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william n Hodges
These players are employees of their teams (before you argue they are not look at the perks they get for playing) and as such was brought to the stadium to entertain the team's customers not insult them. There is no first amendment issue here. Can you imagine going to a restaurant to have dinner and the waiter giving you a political lecture prior to taking your order?
The University has the right to set standard for their students and the students have an equal right to go to another University if they do not like those standards.
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Scott
this.
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John Owens
Amen and amen. Neither schools nor employers are democracies.
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Joanne Martin
I would usually agree 100%, but we are not talking about flag burning or destructive protesting we are talking about taking a knee, but not as a disrespect for our country it is actually a symbolic way of sending a message that the country is in trouble and there will be no need for an anthem or anything else for that mater if it continues to move in the direction it is.
They are not talking during the anthem, or putting on head phone and sing a Dr Dre song instead...they are taking a knee....for a sports team to take a knee is actual a sign of respect when a player gets hurt during a play. They remain on their knee until the player is taken off the field. its a sign of respect for the injured and they commitment as a team to hope they are alright. Because of this I say that as long as it is not disruptive and blatantly dishonoring the song, they are taking a knee out of respect for our country and the hope and need that as a team (all Americans) we can make a difference,
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James Slack
I believe that taking a knee or raising their fists in the air is not the way to get your point across. At any game if any king is not the place. We need to unite and believe and to do as one as God would have wanted us to do.
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Wayne Bowlby
I think if the organization says no it is up to the school policy ( not counting public schools and colleges). If Pro Players don't stand, it is up to owners. Fans, don't go to games, watch tv (commercial based revenue), & do not buy memorabillia if you dislike this stance. It is America, we can protest peacefully. I personally stand and cover my heart, but I refuse to tell others to do likewise, especially peacefully and a decent cause. This is America and our president needs to quit politicing and do his job, i.e. Notth Korea, Iran, Fuel alternatives that will run out mid-century, race, religion and other issues. America can't keep up its roads and bridges. We do not need an overprised wall and use my (&your) tax dollars. Address the reason people are crossing. Not everyone is a drug dealing criminal. I also don't want to pay $5.00 for an orange, bundle of grapes, etc. This will happen. Our President used illeagal Polish immigrants in his first building. I have met a few. No hard hats, gloves, safety googles, and fired when they told him personaly of the problem. They were fired without pay. A voting American, laws apply to all US citizens. Wayne Wiloby0@gmail.com
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Scott
They could make a real impression by signing over one of their huge paychecks to a worthy organization.
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John Owens
Amen.
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
You people are insane! You could make a real impression too by paying TAX on your free income your church gets from selling the word of "God"!
Jesus threw people like you OUT of the temple!
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John Owens
How much tax are YOU paying, Lightning?
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Johnson
Don’t stand and be “forced”? No problem. Stay in the locker room until the patriots complete their anthem.
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Mike
AMEN
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Scott
Protesting inappropriate policing. They should watch this - there is NO gore, just perspective.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-las-vegas-police-release-body-camera-1507083588-htmlstory.html#nws=mcnewsletter
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Rev Carolyn
Freedom- America stands for freedom which includes the right to choose to kneel, sit or stand during the national anthem. The vets that say they are being disrespected are so confused, they did not fight for communism or dictatorship, they fought for freedom which includes the freedom to take an unpopular pose during the anthem. The press is the problem in America. We have allowed them to actually get on our minds and lead us. We do not have a race problem with the police, we have a police problem. Research unarmed police shootings. It is every race yet the press turned it into a race issue and we all followed. President Trump only has to express an opinion and half the country does an about face just to oppose him. Kind of comical in a sad way.
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John Dodge
If the school you represent as an athlete says you stand during the national anthem or you don't play, then that is the choice only you can make. No one is forcing you to participate. Disrespect to the anthem or the flag is not acceptable behavior permitted by the entities ponsoring the event.
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June
I to believe that we should be able to knee, sit, or stand for the national anthem. There are those people that are unable to stand, some in wheel chairs others that only want to show how they feel about any injustice they see as wrong. If you take a real long look at whats happening all around us this is not that important that the dotards had to way in on the kneeing.
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John Owens
"WE" can. "THEY" can't. And I think you meant "weigh" in on the kneeling.
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Richard Stone
Jesus was a fan of protesting for the things HE believed in -- not so much for things he didn't believe in. He even went into a temple and threw out money changers because he didn't believe in it.
So the question is, would he have supported Black Lives Matter?
The problem with BLM is it's not really based on anything other that popular impressions. About 1000 people are killed bu police annually. Of those, 100 were unarmed, (2 per week). Most were white, but about 40% were black. This 40% is higher than the percent of the population, but about the same as the crime rate.
Now, this could be the result of the crime rate, or it could be due to police bias. But there is no evidence either way.. BLM picks out 2 or 3 incidences a year out of the 100 to be interested, but that's not evidence. It might be true. Or might not.
I read the whole Ferguson final report. It had good statistics behind the fact that blacks are over-represented. However, it made the jump that it's due to bias with no justification.
Jesus was smart. I'm sure he would have wanted evidence before believing in something. If the evidence appeared, he would have supported the protests. If not, he wouldn't.
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Wayne Bowlby
Quit Sports or drop out and find a better school. The National Anthem was not used or caled the N.Anthem until 1931. This country is based on rights. I say find a school that stands for rights. Where in the U.S. Constitution does it sa to stand for a song less than 100 years in use during games? Riddle me this Masa President Trump. You use these issues to take heat off yourself and staff in my opinion. Work on North Korea, Trade Laws, individual rights, health care, homelessness, and other major issues. Your power is being abused by yourself and W. H. Staff. You burned thru Secret Service budget in about half a year for golf games and family who do not require free bodyguards. I DO NOT WANT A WALL!!! Address the issues of why humans are coming north. The majority are not drug dealing criminals. They are looking for a better life, free from danger and poverty. The price of crops will skyrocket!!! I don't want to pay $5.00 for an orange, small bundle of grapes and other produce Americans won't harvest. Many jobs are those we do not wanr. I apoligise for the length of this rant. Peace to all, Wayne Bowlby Fort Collins, CO 80525 Losaiko1234@gmail.com
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john shephard
He has a right to kneel, the fans have a right to boo him, the owners have the right to fire him, and the people have the right not to watch football. I'm not, and i don't care what the rest of them do. People have the right to protest. People have the right to protest the protesters, People have the right - In America, thank God - to protest the protesters protesting the protesters, etc. it's wonderful country. It gives and forgives you the right to hate it all you want. God Bless America. Protest all you want. if it is an expression of love you will be contributing something of value that is transformational in bringing us all to the realization that we are spiritual beings in sister and brotherhood. if it is not done in love it is done in fear, and needs to be forgiven, and then that will help in the shift we are all going through. Fear always needs to be transformed into love and forgiveness is always the means for doing it. Anyone doing anything out of fear is merely wasting time and staving off the recognition of their divinity, but we must deal with who we are at the moment, lovingly, and thus it is grist for the mill. Sooner or later everyone will realize that it is not those "out there" that need to be changed, but that actually every true seeker of God has their hands full with themselves. How am I now? Expressing love or fear?
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Jeff
A few thoughts... First, protesting is a right Americans have, I have spent the last 36 years defending the rights of others, 21 on active duty and another 15 working for the Navy, however, there may be consequences for exercising this right. The NFL has allowed players to go forward with the protest even though it is violation of their own rules... but at what cost? There are many Patriots in this country that do not equate the National Anthem with civil rights violations, because of that they are also exercising their right to boycott. Second, the article is about Colorado Christian University, which is a private school and as such can set rules that in fact require student athletes to stand for the National Anthem. If they were a public school the situation would be different. High schools are the same, private schools can force the athletes to stand, even public high schools can put rules in for the athletes to be uniform in appearance and actions. Third, and I have seen many posts championing the protest, before you agree or disagree with the protest, I ask a simple question...Have you personally become involved in making this world better? Do you give your time to the homeless shelter, feeding or ministering? Are you assisting with a prison ministry? Are you volunteering at Hospice or any other care organization where hands on care is required? And this list goes on and on. If you are not, then you need to reevaluate your priorities. Is kneeling the action Christ would ask of you?
Finally, The question has been asked...What Would Jesus Do? I think Jesus would not take a knee in protest, My God would be out doing something about it. He would be active in the community changing peoples lives. He did not protest the Roman occupation, and for the record they had a terrible civil rights record, Jesus got out and DID something, he cared and ministered to the people. It is our positive actions that will change the world, these protests are only creating a divide. If you these professional athletes want to make a difference then spend time bringing people together and helping people. If we change hearts and minds we can change the world, but it doesn't happen through division.
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Minister KIM
As we look around the world today, it is so very obvious that many, many people in the United States are ungrateful and self absorbed. We have the greatest country on the planet and yet, many people without real knowledge or reason join a protest or cause just for the recognition and notoriety given them. Many people desire to be involved simply because they live empty, un-fullfilling lives! How sad.
What would the Lord Jesus say? Very easy answer for the seasoned mature Christain. There are three scriptures that answer this: Mark 12:17, John 17:14-16 and don't forget about John 18:36.
To stand for the national anthem or the United States Flag is NOT an act of worship. To stand is showing respect and this is acceptable in God's eyes. It is also paying Caesar's things to Caesar. Requirements made by teams and human organizations are to be repected or do not participate in football or other such things...Easy enough huh?
2 Timothy 3:2-5 .... sums up the majority of protesters and other concerned individuals. Enough said and point made!
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John Owens
Amen
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
I would kneel also! I would not put my hand over my heart either because I refuse to worship false Idols! The flag is a false Idol! It does NOT stand for freedom! it stands for lies and murder!
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Jim D.
Holy cow, people! Get a grip. You guys are all over the place with this one. Focus, please! We don't need a history lesson on when the national anthem was established or when the Pledge of Allegiance first included the phrase, "Under God." Stick with what the article is talking about.
There is no First Amendment issue here. The 1A protects us from the government making laws against freedom of expression, speech, religion, etc. It has nothing to do with protecting your rights from private entities. Colleges, universities, and schools and do what they want about it. Donald Trump, as a citizen, is entitled to his opinion, and if he wants to refer to the players participating in the protests as sons-of-bitches and thinks they NFL should fire them, he as every right to say so. As a sitting president, it certainly lacks polish and self restraint, but isn't that part of the reason why he won the election? Also, he has not made any overtures that a law should be passed to force everyone to stand during the anthem.
As for the NFL, if they want to make a rule that all players must stand for the national anthem, they can do that. If a player refuses, the NFL will decide punishment, or the player can quit. Likewise, if the fans take offense to players not standing for the national anthem, they don't have to watch. And indeed, that is exactly what has been happening. Many have stopped their subscriptions to NFL pay-channels. Lots of people won't watch games anymore. Attendance is down at the stadiums. So, don't be surprised if the NFL does change the rules.
I think the big problem here is that many people are confused about this protest. I have heard players saying they are protesting police brutality and racism. That may be true, but I think people are confused about the message. Many feel taking a knee during the national anthem is disrespectful to our country and the men and women that fight and sometimes die to protect it. They players may not intend that, but that's the way it is perceived, and perception is everything.
Frankly, I think the whole protest is stupid. What is accomplished by this protest? You piss off the fans. Whose life is improved by this protest? No one's. What did it cost you financially to participate in this protest? Nothing. What did it cost you in personal time to participate? Nothing. What effort did you expend to participate? None. So in the end, the players that participate in these protests don't give a bit of themselves for the cause, no one's life is improved as a result of the protest, and they pissed off their fans. Brilliant!
What do they hope to accomplish by this? More laws? Do we really need more laws regarding discrimination? You want to pass a law that prevents people from having racist thoughts? Is that even possible? Do you just want to change the hearts and minds of people that might have racist thoughts? Do you think this is the best way to go about it? Seriously, I would like someone to respond with an idea that might be productive. And please don't say they are protesting to bring awareness. We're all aware of all the crap that goes on in the world. We all know about racism, sexism, hatred of different religions, and so on. We live it every day. Who, at this point, do you think is not aware?
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James.ULC
What a wonderful world. Everything belongs to Caesar and nothing belongs to God. When everything is political we all lose our humanity.
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CW
You people that support these disrespectful egotistical bigots need to find at least one real injustice in all they claim. Every single injustice that gas been claimed by BLM backers gas been proven a lie.
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John Owens
HANDS UP! DON'T SHOOT! Don't let facts get in the way of a good victimhood story, CW. That would be racist.
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Kitty Leftwich
If Jesus shows up, worrying about standing, taking a knee, or sitting for the National Anthem is the LEAST of what we will be concerned with.
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Rev. Joe
Do any of us want to live in a country (or world) where protest is not permitted?
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John Owens
Protest is permitted, Joe, but when people in the public eye protest, a lot of people viewing that protest may protest also. The NFL and the schools are worried about backlash, which is very evident now, and they want to protect their investments and income.
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Bill Fox
I think most people are very confused about a right. If you exercise a right, you are not exempt from the consequences of your action. The right to free speech, protects you from government censorship or punishment. It does not protect you from the repercussions of what you have expressed or how you have expressed it. The majority of sports fans are also patriotic.
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guidvce4
Totally agree. And the fans are leaving the game. The reprecussions are going to be great for this mis-step by the NFL and the owners. The players are just pawns and don't seem to realize it. Proving, once again, they are not rocket scientists.
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John Owens
Exactly, Bill, and guidvce4.
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James
Forced patriotism? Hmmm. I think some country that has initials that just might start with an N and end in a K forces ppl to worship the bomb & a supreme leader. I see ppl & bombs being worshiped. Is this form of "patriotism" (if one even can call it that) make a great country? Public or private, where is the "freedom" to choose? These ppl are not forcing others to sit, kneel or stand. it's a personal choice.
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Bonita
I believe attempting to force somebody to conform is futile. It can be argued it falls under peer pressure at the high school level. Having said that I don't think the proper place for a protest is on the field. If they choose not to participate in the anthem as is commonly accepted in the US then they can stay in the locker room until it's over. If you want to protest then do so on your own time following all of the appropriate channels. In my hometown you have to apply for a permit and have it approved before you can assemble. I believe in America and all of the freedoms it provides. If you find so much wrong with it then become a part of the solution or explore new places to live. So many are willing to protest all that they see is wrong but rare are the ones that bring a solution to the table.
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Thom Schuett
Democrats thrive on giving people a reason to believe that they are victims. Kaepernick has fallen into this trap. His belief system is warped by the "Hands-up - Don't shoot." lie. Everyone who has a religion in the United States owes it to the people who died to keep the freedoms we enjoy. Everyone who lives in the United States owes their life to police, first responders and the military. The Flag and the National Anthem represent those people and their sacrifice. If you take a knee, you demonstrate that you do not know where your freedom comes from. The Democrats and the left are using anything and everything to drive a wedge between good people. Those in the NFL that take a knee are spoiled, ignorant millionaires. Bad enough. If you want to see where this started go here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp
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Raymond T. Cottrell
I fully support any institution that requires their athletes to stand during the playing of the national anthem or the pledge of allegiance. It is not just matter of patriotism but of respect for the institution and the people that have paid the ultimate sacrifice that enables that institution. Granted - we are a flawed nation and we have problems. Disrespect is not the way to gain approval. All this protest has done is made more people upset - and has changed absolutely NOTHING. Disrespecting the flag and what it represents will not change the hearts and minds of the people the protestors are protesting against. My family and I no longer attend nor watch the NFL. We have also - where possible - not purchased products from their sponsors. Will it make a difference - probably not, but we will not compromise our beliefs and support an institution that does not respect the flag.
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Johnny Doeseph
I have nothing against them protesting. I don't think they should, if they really want to help they can help with their money and influence. However, if they must protest, don't do it during the national anthem. I do not believe that they are trying to be disrespectful to soldiers and such, but it is coming off as it.
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Tom B
John Smithkey...i agree with your practical, spiritual approach...Tom
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guidvce4
I find it ironic that the "protests" over the national anthem and the flag are being acted out by those who are millionaires for playing a game. If they were really serious, they would use their big bucks to better the plight of the supposed less fortunate, to correct the "social injustice" they are "protesting". Let's be absolutely honest about the whole thing. This is nothing more than a further attack on a duly elected sitting President of the United States of America by the offended leftists who still can't believe they lost a naitonal election. To a non-politician not of the swamp which is really irritating to the leftists. Of course, it did help that the POTUS experessed his opinion regarding their actions. He did not mince his words nor soft peddle what he thought about it. He just out and said it. Plain and simple. Where did it really start? Apparently with the girl friend of Colin whathisname, who seems to have a severe case of dislike for this nation. Google her and see what you find. Is no one questioning all these attacks on various aspects of our society and nation at this time? Is no one curious as to who or what is behind these specious instances of ire regarding our nation? There is money behind all of these actions, whose? Check out history and the Communist Manifesto for answers. As a veteran from the VN era, I find these NFL protests to be disrespectful and I have quit watching NFL games. The owners have lost control of their employees(that is what the players are) and I just won't support their failure. Want to "protest"? Do it on your own time, not while getting paid extorbitantly to play a game for entertainment of others. Thanks for listening. J.
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Minister JR
Private, especially religious schools, play by different rules. If students don't wish to follow those rules, they need to find a new school. However, public schools do play by the rules and the Constitution. Prayer is not allowed and kneeling during the National Anthem is a right. The Jehova Witnesses in my classroom did not join us in the pledge to the flag. It was against their religion. Should I have forced them? I think not. Kneeling during prayer is respectful. Why isn't it during the National Anthem?
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Ronald Moniuk
AMEN. STANDING OR LEAVE .I FULLY SUPPORT STANDING .
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Joanne Martin
When the world seemed to make sense I would have ranked kneeling during the anthem right up there with burning the flag. Neither is "illegal" but these are symbolic of the country we live in and I for one have always thought that of our country causes you such hatred towards its symbols of the freedoms you are allotted by living here, then if you are not from this country you should be sent home and if you are a citizen, jail is the obvious solution. take away the freedoms they seem to be protesting against.
However the state of the country right now and utter mayhem that just seems to be getting worse and worse and will inevitable lead to the falling of the United States as we know it; this act of "protest" leaves me conflicted. Yes I still stand behind the disgrace of burning our nations flag, however, taking a knee is not an aggressive act of disgust and dishonor as with burning our flag...I think we have to understand the reason for "taking a knee".
Some claim they are payed to play and shouting to boycott watching the games at all. I believe that the majority (and as with anything there will always be a few who have different motives r reasons) but the majority are quietly taking a knee with the understanding of the amount of people that will be witness and take notice of an issue that is a major problem in our country. They are not talking or screaming during the song, they are not putting on headphones to completely cut out its message, they are simply taking a knee rather than standing. For once I understand and commend the meaning behind this protests. It is actually the exact opposite of disrespecting our country and rather forcing people to tale notice that there is something bigger than ourselves going on here. If we do not make some changes, the National Anthem is going to have no meaning at all because our country as we know it will cease to exist. The acceptance of all the hate and hate crimes across the country is mind boggling. The inability of our government to acknowledge the destruction being done to divide our once united country is like taking a speeding rain back in time, disregarding all the freedoms our forefathers fought and many who lost their lives to give us.
So as I said, if the world was functioning as it normal had, then I would find this appalling, however, the players who have taken a knee have actually realized that what is appalling is the direction our country is heading and the need for a change so that once again we can stand proud with our hands over our hearts as the tear jerking words of the anthem are played...This is not a an act of treason or hatred for our country, it is actually a grand gesture by a group of people who know the amount of people that will turn on the TV or attend a game and see that they are speaking up and speaking out rallying together to push for a change.
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Tom B
Joanne...as with things you have said before, i agree with you...kneeling is not a radical, seditious act...nor was raising arms on the podium at the Olympics...and i also agree that at this rate the country will not survive as it is...neither Rome nor the Soviet Union, nor any other "empire" lasted...we the people have actively sanctioned elected politicians who will not address major issues, and are too immature to work together...i do not know what the end game is for the world, but we seem to be approaching chaos...i hope you are well...Tom
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Dragon Priest
Conservatism seem to confuse tyranny with patriotism. Forced patriotism is tyranny. We have an evil and insane president now who lost the popular vote but is using GOP trickery and leveraging his 35% base t remain in power. That man manipulates us, divides us and insults basic human dignity... all for enriching himself and his buddies elites. And his Russia trouble will be his undoing. So evil has come wrapped in the flag and holding a cross... the US is in deep trouble.
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John Owens
There is that expression again, "wrapped in the flag and holding a cross", something not one of us has ever EVER seen, along with the fake Russia story. Yep. That's just about over with, thankfully.
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Joanne Martin
Thank you for your kind response Tom. I know in the past we have often shared the same ideas on various subjects so its nice to see that even in a subject such as this I can find people who also understand the true reason for what they did.
I try to remind myself that the idea of full Armageddon is not really a reality for me since this plane of existence is needed as the "working" grounds to the spirit world...however much like WWI and WWII as well as Pearl Harbor, the Great Depression and even 9/11...when reflected back upon the people living in those eras felt as hopeless as we are feeling and assumed this was end of the world as me know it. This will too be a devastating lesson in a history book someday....with that said it does not mean there will not be great battles and destruction and life as we know it may cease to exist. This has been the most confusing and unrealistic era of my life. Its like we are regressing and trying to fight for rights that many already fought for and some lost their lives, so he idea that this is even an issue to the magnitude that it is (where NFL players are finding ways to send a message) baffles me and make me question the survival of mankind.
I try to stay away from politics and my kids have been told no news unless its for school, because we all need to focus on the small circle around us that we can control because trying to make sense of what is actually going on is too much to worry about when we cant control it. But stepping outside of my political strike for a moment I have to say that I am concerned that no one seems to be in a rush or even how it could happen at all, that we elect a President to represent and work for the people, yet we have a man in the White House who believes he has just taken over as CEO and owner of our country with zero regard for dignity, class or the laws that govern our President and our people and we will find many rants and angry posts about it, yet there has been no action taken. That is where it feels like this is all just one big hoax and will end soon because accepting this as the reality of the state our country is in is far too ovr the top and insane that i cant wrap my brain around it.
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Chrystal
I believe we should stand for our country, and kneel for the Lord!!
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Frater Acherion
Personally how a person chooses to honor his country is his/her business. If by kneeling they choose to honor their country but not its government then so be it. Isn't that what all those in the armed services fight and die for, our right to freedom of expression? Forcing us how to show our patriotism isn't freedom of expression it's socialism and dictatorship. I love my country but not its current government. Unfortunately I'm a convicted felon and don't have the right to vote so I had no opportunity to voice my opinion at the polls, but I'm still effected by the results. My felony was a class D for child support. A non violent offense forced upon me by a corrupt circuit court. But I still believe how and when someone shows their patriotism to their country is one of those freedoms we are all given by the constitution at birth. I not only support those who choose to kneel but applaud them in their act of standing up for their constitutional rights.
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PATRICK ONEAL
Point being that nobody leaving a comment can do anything but leave an opinion. Myself, as a disabled veteran, i feel disrespected and dishonored every time someone kneels in protest during a flag ceremony. Any of those well paid NFL players could hold a press conference and start a protest at any time. They have many ways in which they could protest and raising of their fist is not offensive. They could have chosen to do that as signs of protest and unity, making a much better point while not creating such a mess. I think a raised fist would have been accepted more easily. However, the BLM should stay out of this. They are proving themselves to be violent on some levels which can be expected when you are honor a convicted cop killer.
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Joanne Martin
Patrick I would like to first thank you for your service and sacrifice for our country and personally for my family and the ones I love.
With that said I would be the first to share your feeling of this being a completely disrespectful act and be absolutely mortified by the gesture, however I have spent a lot of time listening to interviews and trying to understand and have to share this with you in the hopes that you do not feel like your service to our country is now in vain.
First I will say that we need to take notice that the players are not refusing to take part in the ceremonial part of the open of each game. They are not causing any kind of disruption nor are they acting in a way that takes any attention away from the anthem itself, beyond kneeling instead of standing. In the interviews I have watched and/or read it has been explained like this.
They know the amount of people that tune in and come o it to watch them each week and they have chosen a peaceful way to display their concern with the state of our country and what it is becoming. The country and its veterans who have fought for certain rights for all of our people are being disrespected and disregarded everyday. The true values that our country stands for and its freedoms are being ignored and falling apart. In other words are country is wounded and in trouble and needs help fast in order to preserve and save it.
The players take a knee anytime a teammate is hurt on the field and remain silent and do not stand until that player is sweetly taken from the field. It is a sign of respect for what has happened and a sign of unity among players on both teams to show their concern and respect for the wounded player. Taking a knee during the anthem is being done for a similar reason. They remain silent, they do not cause a disruption that takes anything away from the swing that still moves me to tears everytime I hear it. They are choosing to kneel for a country in trouble and in need of immediate attention in order preserve the country we love and for the veterans, such as yourself, who sacrificed and many who lost their lives to make this country the greatest in the world. It was meant as a protest for the country we love, not against it.
Whether this changes anyone's mind or they care either way what the reason for it is I just hope it at least helps to make you know that as a country we still thank you and appreciate your service.
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Jim
Joanne you have touched on a main point that I would like to voice an opinion on. Ballplayers as well as actors and others who get paid a large amount of money to entertain us. I have no problem with "allowing" people to protest in a manor that is peaceful. If you want to go out into the streets and raise the flag with the national anthem and get on a knee fine. But if I'm paying to watch you play ball or watch a show where I expect to be entertained then keep your opinion to yourself. That is not the time or the place to protest anything. I'm a retired veteran also with a slight disability. I don't care what your political view is but to do it on my dime is disrespectful to me. And if you want to say watching a show is not paying for it remember you pay for the cable which also pays for the show. Protest on your time not mine.
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Dragon Priest
Veterans need to understand that this is being politicized by an insane man for his own twisted mind to divide us. Kneeling is no offence. Just because he SAYS SO! The Anthem is a symbol, the flag is just a piece of cloth that is also a symbol. All these players love our country. It shows strength of character to do that when Trump is trying to force fake patriotism. Many christian fools fall for that. The Devil has a way of fooling people with religion and patriotism. But then its just to distract us from his money laundering that he did, does and continues to do for Russia through his companies. I am not a veteran, but if I was, I would be highly offended at what awful disrespect this president shows for our nation and its highest office. He is evil and insane. The devil often comes all wrapped up in the flag and holding a cross. It is up to us to tell the difference. I say devil because that is what most christians understand. But Trump is just a tool in that plan meant to destroy us all.
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Dawn Pisturino
People who will not stand for the National Anthem or say the Pledge of Allegiance or place their right hand over their heart do not belong in America! PERIOD! If they hate this country so much, they can leave. It is an inappropriate form of protest. Furthermore, if I went to work and refused to do my job, as a form of protest, I would be fired. These NFL players should also be fired. This is not a free speech issue because they can get together on their own time and protest. These players are making millions of dollars. They are not "oppressed."
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Wendy
Sounds very Nazi Germany or very North Korea.
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Jim
Sorry Wendy but I don't know of two many N. Koreans that make 10 million a year. I don't think two many Germans did either.
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Rick
If people want to protest then they are allowed. But if your in a uniform you are representing a league school or state or police you are getting paid to represent them. So if you protest on paid time you should be fined or fired becuse you are speaking for more than yourself. Protest in your own clothes on your own time that's great !! Do it in paid time and suffer the consequences!!
Btw hello Brandon !!
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Steve
OH MY GOD people as Americans people have the right not to stand (that is part of they're freedom) HOWEVER if you choose not to stand DO NOT try to tell me you are patriotic or that you still respect our veterans you stand to salute our flag for which it stands our flag stands for the very freedom that gives you the right not to stand it does not stand for racism so someone please tell what any part of national anthem has to do with racism and why are people using the anthem to protest racism.
As for a school being able to make students stand I guess I look at it this way all schools should still have the national anthem before all sporting events however if a student does not wish to stand they should be required to bring a note from they're parents excusing them from it that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
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AlanLee
Well seeing as he is willing to abandon the "movement" and the "fight against social injustice" when he recently stated hes willing to stand for the anthem if it means he can play ball again... shows that he was just seeking attention and doesnt care about the 'cause' at all.
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
You people disgust me! If this was really the land of tolerance this wouldn't be an issue!
This only proves there is no separation between church and state! Its just a damn ball game! BIGOTS BIGOTS BIGOTS! Cant stand it that not everyone lis like them!
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
I would kneel also! I would not put my hand over my heart either because I refuse to worship false Idols! The flag is a false Idol! It does NOT stand for freedom! it stands for lies and murder!
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Steve
Hmm Lies and Murder? then I must ask why do so many people from other countries risk life and limb to come to the country for which the flag stands for .
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John Owens
Really, Steve. Good point.
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Timothy Carlstead
Minister Timothy Carlstead I think that kneeling down during The National Anthem is Disrespectful. My mother and my Uncle fought for Every Single One Of You and you choose to Disrespect our Veterans!!! That is so Disrespectful it is Stupid!!!! I know people have the Right To Protest but Kneeling is Stupid!!! Any one who says that we should keep kneeling,protesting, or whatever needs to GROW UP!!!! Any one who says that we should keep kneeling,protesting, or whatever. I DARE YOU!!!! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!!!! to go to PEARL HARBOR, A VETERAN GRAVE YARD, and THE DEAD VETERANS FAMILIES Of The VETERANS I DARE YOU!!!! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!!!! to go and tell THE DEAD VETERANS, and THEIR FAMILIES That They DIED for Nothing!! I DARE YOU!!!! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!!!! to go and say that to THEIR FACES And THEIR GRAVES!!!
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Dragon Priest
Woe... woe... woe dude. calm down. A free society means just that. Authoritarianism by a crazy president is what is driving this and it honestly stinks. It insults the memory of those that gave their all for this Nation for a twisted manipulation of a situation for his own political gain. I refuse the notion of being forced to worship the flag and honor the National Anthem. I do honor veterans and their families. Freedom to honor a Nation should come free, if others feel that it only serves the elites, then there is a basic crisis on a National scale. I DARE YOU!!!! to look up the history of the National anthem. The music came from a british drinking song about debauchery and loose women. Read up on the reason why it started to be played at baseball games, to boost attendance and profits! The US Constitution is printed on paper made from the marijuana plant. So most have been fed a pack of lies and a false sense of patriotism. There are a few true patriots left and America's future hangs on them. Before you blow a gasket, THINK! Which is just what they want you NOT to do. So according to your thoughts kneeling at a church is disrespectful to God....? See the stupidity of this argument?
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Steve
Well said Pablo
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Timothy Carlstead
pablo Fumero- Look here you stupid moron I said Kneeling for the flag instead of saluting the flag is Stupid!!! You butt kissing Liberal no where did I say kneeling at a church is disrespectful! Did I say if you kneel at a church is disrespectful to GOD. No I DID NOT!!! You sorry disrespectful, pathetic moron get your facts right!!! You are like the media you twist words!!! What are you gonna do when you meet the Almighty ?? Are you gonna show your butt and not show him respect or are you gonna kneel before the KING OF KINGS!?!? One more thing President Donald John Trump is not stupid you are the one who is stupid!! You supported Hillary Clinton the evil witch who is just like you!! You two are stupid because you and all your sorry liberal buddies supported her!!! All you know how to do is whine, complain, and say President Trump is evil and insane. So ha you sorry liberal.
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Steve
I don't agree with not standing for the anthem or our flag but as Americans they have a right not to. But I was just wondering if kneeling is stupid it seems to me that there is a statue of a SOLDIER kneeling by a cross according to you he is stupid? WOW that's sucks.
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Timothy Carlstead
Steve Sexton - Look here you stupid moron I said Kneeling for the flag instead of saluting the flag is Stupid!!! You butt kissing Liberal Kneeling for the Cross is not stupid it shows you are kneeling for the Son Of GOD !!! Did I say if you kneel at a cross your Stupid? No I DID NOT!!! You are like the media you twist words!!! What are you gonna do When you meet the Almighty ?? Are you gonna show your butt and not show him respect or are you gonna kneel before the KING OF KINGS!?!?
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Timothy Carlstead
pablo Fumero: With all due respect you do realizing you are arguing with a 16 year old Minister of The Universal Life Church!!! You need to get your head out of your butt and listen ok pal. I am not talking about the lyrics or history behind our National Anthem!!! I am talking about showing some respect to the ones who are DEAD, ALIVE, WOUNDED, Or HELD CAPTIVE!!! Second President Trump is not crazy you are like every other moron who thinks he is crazy. Listen for once in your LIFE!!! I DARE YOU!!!! to look up the history of the National anthem. The music came from a british drinking song about debauchery and loose women. <---- Really come on man where did you get this from Wikipedia. Do you need to go back to school and learn how to spell Whoa right!!
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Wendy
The music that Francis Scott Key borrowed, because he wasn't a composer, is the song To Anacreon in Heaven, a "sly 1700s paean to drinking and sex."
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-star-spangled-banner-200-anniversary-20140912-story,amp.html
The Star Spangled Banner has only been the national anthem since 1931, and it was far from being an overwhelmingly popular choice. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/3318644/star-spangled-banner
You probably shouldn't tell people to learn to spell until you learn how to properly use punctuation. And, seriously, the origin of the tune is a pretty well-known fact.
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Timothy Carlstead
Wendy Rakus - Really lady your gonna argue with a 16 year old too. Looks like someone doesn't have anything better to do than argue with a 16 year old really! It sounds like somebody needs a life instead of trolling people.
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John Owens
If the protocol is to stand at attention with hand over heart, it is disrespectful not to do so. If the protocol is to kneel or bow, it is disrespectful not to do so. It is not rocket science.
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jborean
If this is your country... respect it and the individuals who trade years of their life or even their deaths defending it. You are not disrespecting the President or any group of individuals... You're disrespecting your country.
There is no other country where people coming from nothing like Obama and Oprah Winfrey could have achieved what they have in personal gain. There are no rights not granted... no opportunities withheld... And if you profess to have any faith whatsoever... You have God seeing to your needs and making a way for you in accordance to his will and you are called to prayer for your leaders...
1 Timothy 2:1-4 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
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Raymond T. Cottrell
Good - and rightly so. I haven't watched any NFL since this nonsense started - and I don't care if anyone doesn't care. #takeastandnotaknee
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Jim
I posted this a bit back in the conversation but wanted to put it here at the end as well to continue the point made. Ballplayers as well as actors and others who get paid a large amount of money to entertain us. I have no problem with "allowing" people to protest in a manor that is peaceful. If you want to go out into the streets and raise the flag with the national anthem and get on a knee fine. But if I'm paying to watch you play ball or watch a show where I expect to be entertained then keep your opinion to yourself. That is not the time or the place to protest anything. I'm a retired veteran also with a slight disability. I don't care what your political view is but to do it on my dime is disrespectful to me. And if you want to say watching a show is not paying for it remember you pay for the cable which also pays for the show. Protest on your time not mine.
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Steve
I will try to make this short I do not agree with taking a knee however i do believe in being an American and as American we have rights and people do have the right to take a knee like it or not we cant only give certain people certain rights that's just my opinion i could be wrong
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Dragon Priest
The day we can't express our displeasure with our government we are in a DESPOTIC DICTATORSHIP! Paying lip service to patriotism with cesure is the hallmark of dictatorship. Conservatives fail miserably at that with forcing this issue. That religions fall on the side of despotism makes them work for the red guy with horns. Jesus was never a conservative, the sanhedrin were.
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John Owens
I feel the same about gun bans--despotism.
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I think Jesus would approve of this action. He was opposed to all that this kneeling is protesting. I think more people should kneel in protest of the way minorities are treated in this country. It is 2017 and our attitude towards minority became stagnated hundreds of years ago and not improved in spite of the Civil Rights and other laws affecting minorities.
Forced patriotism is tyranny! Stop using Jesus name for political bull shiit. Christianity is so messed up. They do not follow his 2 commandments. Do you know what they are? Christianity is doomed because of lack of compassion. Stop making it political.
I think you need to grow up: our fore fothers founded this Nation by prayer's and Faith in God. I get where your at, but how are you and other's gonna answer God when we stand before the thrown of God.
Your, not my Forefathers arrived here, not found any who it was because they were running away because they were in search of religious Freedom so stop the foolery and lets keep it real. Kneeling because you see violence against your people everyday oppression everyday could never be a bad thing they aren't disrespecting you by kneeling for what they believe in and i believe they can stand before the throne of God knowing that they stood up to oppression they fed the poor they visited the incarcerated they loved those who were not loved by the oppressor don't believe me read and discern that word again!
Jesus would not gave supported dis respecting a god fearing nation over a fake cause such as BLM.
"his people" never had it so good
“I disagree with what you have to say; but will defend to the death, your right to say it.” Patrick Henry. (One of our Founding Father’s)
Founded by prayer? You’re dead wrong.
Which god? The Founding Fathers were Deists, which means they saw your "god" as only a very small part in a much, much more amazing and loving being (universe?) called Spirit. They also saw the Jewish god, the Muslim god, the Greek gods, Pagan gods, even the atheists' lack of gods altogether, as just tiny parts of Spirit.
"God" wasn't formally introduced on U.S. currency until a Christian pastor suggested the idea to the Treasury Department in 1863. So what you call "God" is your own frame of reference.
As for how I'm going to answer... aren't omniscient deities already supposed to know everything, including the difference between "thrown" and "throne"? Ignorance may be bliss, but it's a terrible excuse for slovenly grammar and syntax.
Hey, on the bright side, at least you're human like the rest of us.
SING ON,DREAMSINGER, I would like to put MUSIC to those LYRICS,
Wow. Well done.
Answer to GOD? I would tell you that He sent me. Or rather I came because he wanted me to come. I will not politicize him like many in the conservative movement have done.Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple once. Maybe humanity is a bout due for another episode to clean up his house
Little do you know about how our country was founded. Look up "Washington's Vision" and learn a little. The God Washington worshipped is not necessarily the one that is peddled in today's churches. I know it to be the real one. That lady he saw I know not by name but I do know of her.I would also venture out that if you follow Jesus 2 commandments, you'll eventually get there. When we make it to the Throne, that means we did what He wanted us to do, otherwise "no cigar".Judgement? Can God judge himself? Interesting thought. God has really no gender and if He did it would be a She.I use he for your benefit. I prefer Source. Oh and just so you know Jesus is not God.There is Hierarchy before him all the way back to Source. They are not gods but represent Source to us.Sheesh, this is god 101. May you learn the truth.
Timothy I am not even sure I understand what you are saying here....The nation was not founded by prayer, yet it was founded by men and women escaping for religious freedoms, so I just dont see the sense in what you are saying.
We also have to stop making this a religious protest...its political and the question is whether it is "unAmerican" or not. If you live in America and stand for what that mean then your religion or lack of have nothing to do with the meaning set for by the National Anthem.
Joanne sorry but this is a social/moral statement! It is not political by any means nor is it a spiritual statement! However anyone with a conscious, a heart or are a follower of Christ should be kneeling as well! It is not, I repeat, it is not about disrespecting America! However I behoove you to check history on by whom and for whom the National Anthem was actually written. I speak on this not only as a black person but as a veteran, a retired police sergeant and a minister! When you've walked in our shoes then you can disagree until then "Reality what a concept"
Timothy...the Star Spangled Banner was a poem written by Francis Scott Key, on a ship, while he watched the American flag continue to wave...the music was much later...everyone has the right to decide how to live...while i think it would help thousands more people if athletes gave 90% of their money to help the poor and unhealthy, it is an individual decision...people can stand, sit, kneel, whatever, with regard to the flag, religion, etc...Tom
Mamie,
I am not sure what statement you are calling on as social or moral. I am speaking of the NFL players choosing to kneel during the Anthem rather than stand. I am fulling educated the verses excluded from the original song that we now refer to as as our National Anthem.
However, understanding and listening to any of the players who have chosen to take a knee rather than stand during the singing of this song have been very clear as to why they have chosen this method as a peaceful way to battle the politicians and decision being made that are currently destroying our country. They are not being disrespectful during the song or causing a scene simply taking an alternate route to show support for a country they love. Much like they take a knee for a wounded teammate before they are removed from the field.
I am unsure why, but it is in debates such as this that I almost feel compelled to apologize for not being a black person. We all have had our paths to walk down. I can tell you that I am a white female, molestation survivor, rape survivor, PTSD Sufferer trying to live in the world with a Bachelors degree that can get me barely over minimum wage right now and a minister!! Does that somehow hold more weight in what I say now? This is debate about America and the things we hold sacred, the rest means nothing to me....are you and American...Me too.....then it is a pleasure to speak with a fellow American.
This nation was not founded by prayer and faith in God. It was founded on exploitation, oppression and violence. Separation of church and state was one of the first things they did! I don't plan on standing before your version of God, ever. As a grown up I have the responsibility to stand up for what I believe...I am!
Ok here is one for the history books. I researched the practice of the Anthem at ball games. Here is what I found out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/30/a-brief-history-of-the-star-spangled-banner-being-played-at-games-and-getting-no-respect/?utm_term=.b9b06a8ef277
AND to further look into the tune It has its root in a British song about boozing and womanizing — wasn’t adopted as the official national anthem of the U.S. until 1931.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KcHg5ZOIgU
So it seems we are being forced to worship an old drinking song.by the conservatives and christians, Imagine that.
My God has quite a sense of humor and gets a big laugh out of lots of the things I say and do. For instance, when I was a kid going to Catholic elementary school those sicko nuns made our whole class stand,face the flag, put our right hands over our chests and recite the Pledge Of Allegiance every morning. The only way me and some of the other little juvenile delinquents in the room could get back at them was to throw acorns at them when they weren't looking. There were lots of acorn trees around that school and church, and we would fill up our pockets during recess. It's no wonder they made us be altar boys. That's okay, for we loved Christian Brother's communion wine in those days, and it would make us think of a lot more things to throw acorns at in class. My God really thought that was hilarious. I won't believe in a rigid God who doesn't like to have fun. That would be self-defeating. Too many people seem to think they should be punished for being human. They're probably masochists too. You don't always have to believe in the same deities. If it does'nt work for you ditch it, and get another one. If monotheism doesn't work for you try polytheism. There are plenty of gods and goddesses to go around. Most of them are'nt condemning and some of them will even sit and laugh with you. And do'nt pay any attention to people who think they have to believe in the hateful gods of their mentally deranged forefathers. I just hope they remember to take their medication today, because a twelve - step recovery meeting won't be enough.
Our forefathers left their country because of forced religion. Standing before God when you die is a Christian concept that everyone who wants to can follow and those who don't shouldn't have to. Our government should stay out of it altogether or they risk dictatorship.
the sports player made it political period if they so worried about oppression then move out of their million dollar homes sale all the own and take that money go back to the communities that gave them oppourtunities and support and give back to failing schools boys girls clubs cancer research. on and on. they can sae their fake social justice bullcrap and their self induced feel good for public I say starts with them and ut mney where their mouths are.
A lot of these wealthy players already make significant contributions to their communities. Their actions are for their communities as well. Please check your facts before you sling dismissive and nasty insults.
Name the athletes and what they have done since you are such a fact-checker.
Amen John
Pablo, there are Ten Commandments. Read the other eight. Just sayin'
10 jewish commandments version 2. We don't know what was in version 1. But Jesus gave only 2. Matthew 22 34-40
34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Consider... if god (YHWH) gave Moses the commandments and he is all knowing... then why not know what would happen and need to give version 2? Why not make sure the version 1 would make it to the people? My take, that wasn't god. This YHWH is not what people think he is, I know. I've had conversations with him... several. Just like you and me talking about things. He is that engaged. We communicate at many levels all the time. But never asked him that one. Maybe someday I will ask. I just don't think that is so important at this moment. Oh and he does care about us a lot. But that is my experience and that is private.
Jesus is YHWH. Just saying.
Jesus also wanted people to obey the laws of the land. Our constitution, which our laws must bend to, allow for freedoms that make a mandatory observance an illegal requirement. Besides, these guys are not burning it or spitting on it, The are not causing any damage to anyone or committing any violent acts, and it is a nation wide recognition of a country torn and hurting... which is a very important thing to recognize if we are to find a way to resolve things.
you are so right
The Pledge of Allegence and the Respect to the Nation Anthem is not a mandatory thing it is a matter of respect for a nation that gives so much. The NFL Millionaires have no excuse for not giving thanks for all they have here in the USA. To protest about BLACK LIVES MATTER in such a venue is an insult not a support. TIt is my OPION that if they don't wish to be courteous to the nation that gave them so much, they are welcome to leave any time and give up the PRO BALL that gave them so much. Better yet, why don't these SO CALLED MEN donate to the inner cities to build things better for a generation so " DEPRIVED" Think about it..
Jesus had a problem with idolatry, which includes saluting or pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth. He also had a problem with moneychangers and vendors selling products in churches, which would include the bookstores and coffees shops that currently replace them in 2017.
Let's see, then there's the "ostentatious nature" of church decor... doing charity and then running around telling everyone about what you did... not to mention going around preaching, proselytizing, and threatening at complete strangers at bus stops and libraries... allowing the clergy to get so rich from your tithes that they live in mega-mansions in exclusive, high-end communities that are nothing like the hellhole areas those kids are trying to escape...
...aye, the rest of us filthy heathens are truly worms compared to your "greatness". How did we ever manage survive the 4.5 million years of uncouth savagery beforehand?
In other words, if you're saying Christianity is the epitome of virtue, keep in mind the Bible would've ordered Jesus' mom to be stoned to death for adultery.
So stupid and ignorant.Jesus's Mother Mary gave birth to Christ through Immaculate Conception.She was married to Joseph and never slept with anyone else.How dare you call her an adulterer?!!God made Christ and thats not adultery!!!
Wait, Mary was married to Joseph when God got Biblical with her?
How is that not adultery? Or is it only adultery when it's not Jesus' mom? All seriousness aside, Mary hadn't married Joseph yet when she got pregnant.
God gets named in way too many paternity cases to be telling anyone to keep it in their pants.
Don't crucify me, you know I nailed it.
Dreamsinger, he doesn't know yet... be kind to him.
I don't see why people are using Jesus in this argument. This has nothing to do with religion. It has nothing to do with disrespect. He is silently protesting. Which we ALL HAVE THE RIGHT to do. He does give back to his community and charities. He sat at first and after speaking with a vet - who supports him as a lot of vets do - he started taking a knee. His vet friend said that was a way to honor the fallen. Don't judge - that's not YOUR job.
Christianity is a product of the late Roman Empire era, when the military legions were seen as role models to the masses.
Questioning authority was considered a dangerous threat 2000 years ago, because it would also cause others to stand up against the Emperor. It's no different today, with Christians.
Follow orders, do not question what you are told, and remember that your life is worthless unless you fight in God's name, that sort of thing.
I agree with Amber's opening statement that Jesus wanted people to obey the laws of the land. In fact, when the question of taxes came up, Jesus did tell the people What belongs to Cesar, give to Cesar. He was in fact telling people to obey the laws! The professional football players are getting a large amount of money. Each of them should at least show respect for this country that gave them the opportunity to make the living they do! If they don't want to demonstrate their respect for the freedom we all enjoy, they may resign and seek employment elsewhere! They do have a free choice: stand, or work someplace else. There is a fast food restaurant that is hiring down the street from my church! Have a blessed day. JOHN SMITHKEY III RN BSN
Young Man you are asking people to disregard the massive killing of young men to be over looked. Do you sincerely believe that the 1st Amendment is a one way street. Someone fought for the rights you now have privy to.....Psalm 82-3 read it sir. Your very title BSN speaks volumes. Yet do you choose who receives help and who can't? You are obligated to help all: Or do you? Because one can't afford or lacks coverage do you withhold the right life that lies in your hands?
Massive killing of young men. Usually by other young men. He has a right to speak his mind, but no such right to work for the nfl actions have consequences. The man is a pawn in a much larger conflict.
What Massive killing do you speak of James? If I turn to a ballgame it is to watch the game not the political opinions of the players. Protest on your time not mine. Show respect for the flag and country and self.
Laws of the land refer to the spiritual laws! NOT laws white people choose to impose on who ever they choose to slaughter and invade!
They should kneel as they see fit! you people are bigots! anyone not christian is seen as the enemy and evil! you people are trash!
Yeah. Those evil white people, bringing fresh water and literacy and modern sanitation and mosquito eradication and farming techniques and free food and housing and clothing to those noble and peaceful and wholesome savages everywhere. The ones they don't slaughter that is. Just human garbage they are. They think just because they built fleets and economies and schools and magnificent societies that their culture is superior. Takes a lot of nerve to build the greatest societies that have ever been. Dirty colonializing exploiters.
Well put John.
Thanks, Jim.
Jesus would not like someone being told how to live. He fave us the right to freewill who are you or anybody else to say what is right he died on the cross for our sins but he did not back down and be stood for what is right what bible are you reading. God help us it seems like your one of the ones that assist with Jesus being crucified. God said praise no God's before me it seems your praising that flags. Smh
Your absolutely correct Miranda
Kneeling is not about racism. It is simply not respecting what America stands for. One nation under God. Hello!
I'm a veteran Bill and you don't understand what Jesus and America stand for
Okay, Larry, if you are a veteran of this great country of ours why do you think kneeling for our national anthem is fine. I served in the Persian Gulf war, Desert Shield and Desert Storm. I survived these wars and all thanks to our God above. I know what freedom is and I know what America stands for and I feel if you do not want to stand and praise our country that God helped us to make great then I feel you need to leave it and go to another country and see what you will be missing. Everyone wants to throw race into issues all of the time but no body looks at the truth. Satan is at work here and he is winning as long as we let him. I agree that we should stand for our national anthem because God allowed us to have this country and by standing is our way of giving respect to our founders of this country and also to God. So LARRY if you feel that this country has wronged you in some way, LEAVE it and go somewhere else and see how bad they have it, then ask yourself, was I really that brain dead to think my country is really that bad. You can say what you want about racism all you want, but 95% of the NFL is African American, there is BET also, Black Entertainment Television, NAACP and so on. All races are discriminated against and I do mean all. Look it up. Just say prayers daily to God and ask him to wipe out all this racism.
Please! I was in the USN from 1978 to 1992. The kneeling has nothing to do with disrespecting the country, flag, military, or law enforcement personnel. Who came up with that idea? It wasn't the person that started kneeling. It was for social injustice toward Blacks and other people of color. But no, someone decided to put a spin on it to avoid facing the issue. Well, spin this: The Star-Spangled Banner was written by a slave owner (Francis Scott Key). When the SSB was written, Blacks were slaves (meaning: it was not written with them in mind). There are four verses to the SSB, yet only one is sung. Here is apart from the 3rd verse that you will never hear sung:
"No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave, And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."
Remember what I mentioned earlier that Blacks were slaves when this was written. So why should they respect it? But they do. But before you open your mouth and say something ignorant again, let me reiterate what the protest is about. The social injustice that is happening to Blacks and people of color. Colin Kaepernick never said he had any disrespect for the country, military, flag, or law enforcement personnel. When someone in congress, the military, law enforcement, and even some civilians are died or are killed, the flag is lowered to half-mast in honor and respect. Colin lowered himself before the flag to honor the those who the country failed to recognize and to acknowledge the social injustice that they endured. I believe that Jesus knelt with Colin.
I have something you should ponder. Read Matthew 25:31-46. While it does not say anything about "when you were being beating, killed, or mistreated, when did/did not we help you". It is talking about compassion toward your fellow man. For these of you who are so patriotic, the freedom of speech and the right to peaceful protest are a constitutional right. There isn't a, “but you can't do it or use you right if you piss people off" clause in it. God gave use the freedom of free will and choice. You can use yours to condemn, I will use mine to kneel with Colin and all of the other Americans and true Christians that see the wickedness that is growing in the country. I mean no disrespect or malice toward anyone in my statement, it is just my take on things.
Thank you, Le 'Roy. This all starts with what we WEREN'T taught in history class in high school. The birth of this nation still haunts us and the fact that, socially and politically, we've managed to gloss it over since the Civil Rights Era doesn't mean it went away. Trump has let the genie out of the lamp and now we are seeing what has been festering under the surface for YEARS. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. Seems bad, but maybe we needed Trump to bring this nasty infection to a head so we can finally deal with it. It's not going to be pretty, but God's got nothin' to do with it. This is 100% human-caused and will only be human-solved.
Le' Roy October 4, 2017 at 1:57 pm
" Please! "
Best post I've read in quite a while. Looking forward to more.
Thank you.
Marc, you are a disillusioned nationalist if you are telling a brother in arm, a fellow veteran, to leave the country because you disagree with him.
Good points Leroy. You have raised some good points. However Tierney yours are to blame Trump. This stuff has been going on for years and I hear in the media all the time about Bigotry and racism. Let me ask a simple question. What has Trump done or said that would leave one to believe he is a racist or a bigot? I will tell you that with People Like the leader of the nation of Islam spouting the hatred that he does and people like the idiot David Dukes having people who actually follow them. I just do not understand people who think just because their skin is a certain color are better than anyone else or that their religions is right and everyone else is wrong. What we need is education in this country that is not left or right but down the middle. There is good and bad in all and it is time we teach this to the next generation. Hatred is not natural it is taught.
Kneeling in protest is a constitutional right. Our constitution is what makes this country great. Take away any of our rights and you might as well take them all.
I don't see that at all. Employers and schools don't always follow the Constitution. They are not democracies. Yeah, people can kneel. And others can refuse to attend or pay to view. It's simple. Let the wallets decide who is right.
Employers and schools are not seated members of Congress, John. Therefore, the First Amendment does not apply, the Tenth (whatever powers not authorized to Congress are given to the states) does. That's where a lot of patriots make their mistake, they only read the parts that they like.
You brought up an excellent point, by the way. About how many high school football teams are there in America, and about how many high school students make those rosters? On top of that, how many of those high school students get football scholarships by colleges? Even worse, how many of those college graduates successfully get drafted by a professional NFL team?
Education is the difference between the team owner and the team being owned. I think it's about time we reminded the American education systems (public, private, secular and religious) of that reality. The country has enough Al Bundys saluting a piece of cloth...
Don't stand or take off your hat/cap, and shut up when the National Anthem is played and I see you, or face the consequences. You know what you can do with your "constitutional right."
Clearly you can not read, or hear, or care to understand Bill, the REAL REASON for the kneeling. It's people like you, and trump who choose to turn the realities into your fantasies and blame everyone else making a statement, wrong for exercising our Constitutional rights. I am a veteran. There is NOTHING they are doing that is against THE FLAG nor against what the military stands for. Their stance is against the words in the Star Spangled Banner anthem that implies there's freedom FOR ALL, when in actuality, it is not. To include a mention of slavery. Why don't you educate yourself before speaking OUT LOUD to the public with ignorant rhetoric. And then turn the tables for your benefit. If your life, and the lives of your family was constantly being under siege, I wonder how you would react to that. I think I already know. Where kneeling is silent and not harming ANYONE, you would act like the home grown terrorists and destroy everything in your path to make your statement. And furthermore, if YOUR president can say and do ALL that he's done which has delved so deeply against our Constitution, and hasn't faced consequences, then these people can kneel. Find one law that says they can not kneel. Find one law that says THEY MUST stand. Look for the rules that makes various actions be against the law when it comes to the flag. Educate yourself before talking out of the side of your neck and praising the dummy in office with having the same uneducated ignorance. And finally, ask yourself WWJD. Do you know what that stands for, Bill???
Well said.
Like this.
PWoodward you preach about how it's wrong for our sitting President ( He is your President as well ) and his supporters who support his views onplayers taking a knee during the National Anthem.. First off I want to thank you for your service in this Nations military.. Now before you start telling everybody including our President to educate ourselves on the Constitution... Maybe you should educate yourself on the Constitution and this Nations National Anthem... First off start with reading about Fort Mc'Henry and the war of 1812 in the Baltimore Harbor. Were the men that fought and died for our flag not to come down... Which my fought and died for in the Revolutionary War and every war thereafter to present... Second..As for people who disrespect our Nations National Anthem and our flag.. The right to desecratingoun Flag and not stand for our National Anthem.. Didn't come around until the early 1990's when some Liberal Democrat Judge to make it part of the First Amendment Rights Freedom of Speech.. So unless you were in service after 1990 then you fought for that right to discredit our National Anthem and our Nations Flag... But if you were in service before that time ..? Our soldiers fought for our country and our flag.. I respect you for serving our country. But I'll disagree with you and your thoughts of disrespecting our National Anthem....
Well Pwoodward, I already can tell you were not in the military otherwise you would be totally against people burning our flag, stepping on our flag, kneeling for our flag and so on. This is not a protest, terrorists do all of those. So its okay to burn our flag that God helped us to get? Is it okay to disrespect God? So go ahead Mr. Pwoodward, disrespect God all you want cause when you die, and you will eventually, you will be explaining to him why you did disrespect him. They are kneeling in protest to our country and how African Americans are treated, this was the initial kneel in protest. If it wasn't for God then they would not be in the NFL. There are other ways to protest in this country, Hey maybe they should give some of those millions of dollars they make to an organization to help fight racism, oh wait they wont do that cause they are selfish with their money. Oh they're not you say. Has any of these protesting players given any money to the NAACP? Go look it up and you will see, they HAVE NOT, I looked it up. If you went to any other country in this world and showed disrespect to their leader or their flag, you would have a fight on your hands. If you were really in the military, you would know this. So like I said above in another post, if you don't like it here, move to another country.
Amen, Roger Williams
Excellent.
I'm a civvie, and I have to agree with PWoodward's argument. Freedom of speech means that you're going to hear and see things you may not agree with, and that includes peaceful assembly (such as protesting). The country has demonized burning the flag, stepping on the flag, hanging the flag upside down, spitting on the flag, defacing or destroying the flag... yet the country has no problem with a patriot wearing flag-print Speedo briefs.
Again, I'm not entirely sure how the military sees wearing the national flag where it can be urinated or defecated on, but I sorta recall my grandmother wasn't fond of the idea -- even after she retired from the Army, when WW2 ended.
FWIW, President Trump completed his service requirement by graduating from a military academy. Up until 1971, women had to volunteer to join the military, they weren't allowed to be directly drafted... and Hillary Rodham didn't volunteer. Plus, she married William Jefferson Clinton, who was a draft dodger (a felony crime) before President Carter issued the blanket pardon.
Sorry if my comment bothers the patriots... my armband is at the cleaners and my German is a war crime in itself.
Pwoodard It is clear who lives in a fantasy of his/her own. If you are an U. S. A. Citizen, Trump is your president.
I agree. The Pledge and the Respect to the Nation Anthem is not a mandatory thing it is a matter of respect for a nation that gives so much. The NFL Millionaires have no excuse for not giving thanks for all they have here in the USA. To protest about BLACK LIVES MATTER in such a venue is an insult not a support. This is my OPION that if they don’t wish to be courteous to the nation that gave them so much, they are welcome to leave any time and give up the PRO BALL that gave them so much. Better yet, why don’t these SO CALLED MEN donate to the inner cities to build things better for a generation so ” DEPRIVED” Think about it..
Yep
I read with GREAT interest the opinions of Marc, and the other fine people who took time to address the problem of the pro athletes not standing during our National Anthem. Marc and the others in this group voiced a very important idea: how much have these multimillionaire athletes given to help to the problems that they are protesting about? The answer is not many!! Of all the pro athletes in the Cleveland area, I can only think of one player that actually helps on s regular basis, he is LeBron James!! He has always "stepped up to the plate". In fact he steps up WITH OUT being asked!! I have a great idea; after the National Anthem is played, have a donation bucket on the field and let's have these players get off their knee, and place a donation into the donation bucket as they march by it as they exit the playing field. Now that will show us who the real athletes are! Now I don't mean bring money on the field. But the team members can sign a pledge sheet, or another method that shows they put their money where their mouths are! Marc brought up some very good ideas on how these millionaire athletes could donate and give back to the communities that they came from, or another areas they could help out. If they cannot afford to give a little back, they can always look for a part time job to help make ends meet. They can also donate their time too. After all they're the largest group of part time workers I ever heard of! I do believe that Charity begins at home! I'm sorry my editorial is so long, but I just had to voice my opinion. Have s blessed day! JOHN SMITHKEY III RN BSN
You clearly have no clue why they are kneeling in the first place. It is in protest to the injustice to afro Americans by the legal system in response to all of the men and women who were killed by police. Why honor a flag that represents a system that doesn't recognize everyone as equal? If they chose to retaliate or riot THAT would have been an issue. The problem with this country is that so many people who have absolutely nothing to do with certain situations always feel it necessary to voice their opinions when they could not possibly understand where the other people are coming from.
The poster agrees with you. You've misread their comment.
It all started out that way, but has turned into an anti-trump issue. When the president himself says you can't protest peacefully, and then suggests you be punished if you do, I say we all take a knee. He is not acting like the leader of the free world. He is acting like a dictator.
We talk of the "Minority " not getting a fair shake, remember that those protesting are individuals who receive millions of dollars for playing a game, no one sit in the back of the bus, we all use the same drinking fountains, we all sit together in the same restaurant's, use the same bathroom as it should be, the one being "disrespected are the law breakers and drug dealers, the advisary is about and doing well, he's got brother against brother and his number one goal "Destroying the Family " is alive and well also, Read your sculptures people.
All 16 of them killed by police last year? I think one is one too many, but they are still protesting the deaths of very few at the hands of police and saying NOTHING about the deaths of 2500 by other criminals. The worst enemy of any minority in THIS country is the culture of the minority. I'm not saying there isn't bigotry-- there is, but bigotry is not killing nearly as many member of the minorities as their own culture is. Just saying.
I agree with you, however it would take a whole lot longer than we have here to explain how we got to where we are (minorities). It doesn't make it right and I am not condoning the violence...but there are a lot of different things that have happened throughout history (and I am not just speaking about slavery) that has created this situation. But even still the kneeling is in protest of unarmed innocent black men and women dying at the hands of law enforcement...don't confuse the topic. One doesn't excuse the other
ndbarnes1970--
I really do appreciate your comment, even though we differ on accepting the protest. Please consider my response below:
Hey, if a cop kills MY son or my daughter's son (whose father is black), I'm gonna want to burn his (the policeman's) house down with him in it. I'm not excusing anyone. Equal protection under the law should also mean equal punishment under the law-- for police, politicians, rich, poor, any color or religion, whatever.
I just think all the black people killed by black criminals are not being given a fair shake and the protest is therefore totally unfair to black victims of black crime, which eclipse the black victims of police by sheer volume. I won't bring up black suicide rates here.
One big problem with getting justice here, though, if a police officer--black, white, brown, yellow, red or green shoots a black person, FOR ANY REASON, the black community seems to go on autopilot and start demanding their punishment WITHOUT FIRST KNOWING WHAT TRANSPIRED.
Now, if the person shot was a known criminal (like Michael Brown), their friends are prone to tell lies about how things went down, and the black community finds that understandable and acceptable. ("Hands up. Don't shoot." EVERYODY knows that was a lie) After that, they don't want to hear anything different because they don't want to lose the momentum of their protest.
Judges and prosecutors know this, and they go on autopilot, too, ON THE SIDE OF THE POLICE OFFICER, giving them a presumption of innocence that ordinary citizens do not receive at the hands of the criminal justice system.
I don't know how to straighten all this out, but it is not by showing a lack of loyalty to the land of our birth. Some even say it is racist to speak against the kneeling in protest. That doesn't wash. People cannot tell me if I don't like their ACTIONS that I am racist. They only do THAT so they can get their own way, whatever it is. Patriotism itself is not racial at all. My people are not all one color or religion or occupation or size or shape or income or from the same geographical area. They don't all have the same first same language or like the same kinds of music or clothes or drive the same brands of autos or motorcycles.
I would like us all to move together, like a powerful wave or a wind, to take back our government. We should ALL want real justice for all people. We disagree sometimes on what that is, but most agree that at least sometimes, police are too trigger-happy. It is up to the PROSECUTORS AND JUDGES to see that justice is done.
Still, there should be SOME presumption of innocence UNTIL the facts come out, and that should be as quickly and transparently and honestly as possible.
And ndbarnes1970, thank you again for your comment.
I totally agree Nicole it seems people are making this into something it isnt they are protesting injustice and they understand the same way babylon had to fall the us is no different.There not being violent quite the opposite the are quietly kneeling for some horrible behaviors by people who are suppose to serve and protect and if some of these people had a inch of empathy they could allow them to walk in another's shoes and see if they think the same
I agree with Ms. Barnes. You should be about to protest for whatever you want as long as you do it peacefully and do not violate other's rights. Many cultures, including ours, interpret kneeling as an act of reverence. I do not understand why these players kneel as a sign of protest to America instead of seating during the anthem?
It is a protest to fake injustices. The lies of BLM as to the injustices that these idiots are disrespecting the flag of the USA. These football players are morons and need to be fired for trying to corrupt mirrors with their actions. Blm and the reports of evil police polices towards only of course only black criminal. Do you really believe if a cop is bad he only abuses Black people. Are you an uneducated moron like all the people that believe BLM?
Thumbs up
It is an inappropriate form of protest, and if America is so horrible, you should not live here. This affects everybody, not just you.
I don't look at this issue as a racist one I look at it as a disrespectful one. Hey You want to kneel during the national anthem to me is disrespectful, but hey you have the right to do it. But lets not forget that Hispanics are shot by police and so are a lot of Whites. The police have a tuff job and how many of these incidents are because the person shot was doing something they should not have been doing. When a life is taken it is a sad thing regardless of the race of the decedent. Some comments have been made about whites and being slave owners like Frances Scott Key who wrote the anthem. Lets not forget there were a lot of Black slave owners as well. This was not just a white thing folks look at your history. One of the largest plantations in South Carolina was owned by a black man if I'm not mistaken. So lets get off the white thing.
And say a word about Trayvon Martin. Thousands of black kids have been killed (by cops, other kids, etc.) since he was. Name one.
Not sure I understand your question Clay.. You are right more African Americans are killed by other African Americans than by police or any other race but that is never talked about. Why Not?
How is disrespecting our flag and country going to solve anything, we need to remember that our Father in Heaven wants us to love one another and respect each other, Being an minority in this country is getting to be blown out of proportion, patriotism should be shown at all times and not used as a soap box to stand on for personal grudges. There are others forum's to be used for such issues. Remember our great country that I have fought for should be respected at all cost, "Love One Another and our creator God the father and his Son Jesus Christ.
Black lives..or any lives..matter a "personal grudge"? Oh my!!
Earth is the insane asylum of the universe. Do your duty as a minister and help heal, not add to the divisiveness of this country. It is better than some but not so great. You talk of those that fought for this country. What of the slaves that built this country? Do their ancestors lives matter? Doesn't look like it... Also , I'm so tired of so called ministers speaking for God, and saying what Jesus would want.as if they, and only they are privy to this information. Doesn't matter what religion you are, or are not. We are to treat each person equally, with respect, kindness, compassion, and love them. When a piece of fabric and a song supercedes the rights of a person to kneel or stand, something is seriously wrong with this great country. And, the tragedy in Las Vegas is proof that a dome over this country can't protect us. What is a wall going to do? Let us ALL kneel and pray. Lastly. Do you hypocrites even really believe in God? You know what you truly believe in your hearts and that's what your God sees. No wonder so many of you are fearful. You should be. Try true LOVE of every single one of God's creations.
Praying doesn't feed a hungry veteran that was left behind by the grateful nation, which sent him to fight a battle they wouldn't send their own kids to die in. Praying doesn't rebuild infrastructure, or invent new technologies that can improve the lives of all people. Praying doesn't stop bullets either, if Las Vegas was any indication.
Well, for some people it managed to stop a bullet -- once.
Your actions are your prayers, and actions speak far louder than words... even if it's silently kneeling in protest. Be the change you seek in this world, dear fellow planetary psych ward roommates. Namaste.
Amen, Rex
They're not disrespecting our flag or country. And your "they're millionaires!" argument is prevalent, but terrible.
Firstly, there's no mention in the code of conduct regarding the flag about standing. Ironically, if you've ever bought flag-themed plates or napkins for your Fourth of July barbecue or worn clothing with the image of the flag on it, you've - quite literally, according to the code of conduct - disrespected and abused the flag. Let's put things in perspective there. What the NFL is doing is not, in any formal sense, disrespecting the flag. What we do on a regular basis, on the other hand, is - by written definition - disrespecting the flag. So by the actual rulebook, we're guilty for using the flag on throwaway items like plates and wearing it on clothing...and they're not for kneeling to it during the anthem. Ironic, right?
Secondly, you're essentially (well, almost literally) saying that since these men are not poor and abused, they don't get to voice their beliefs. That's shamefully ignorant and close-minded.
It's easy to talk about American values and respecting the flag, but it's completely another to actually promote those values and respect what the flag is only representative of. These players, even if you disagree with their cause, have the American right to kneel during the anthem. No law, code, or rule demands any American be forced to stand for the anthem. It was actually deemed anti-American in 1943 by the opinion of the Supreme Court on the grounds that forced patriotism isn't patriotic and goes against the very fiber of American values.
And just as an added factoid, did you know Army Special Forces veteran Nate Boyer was the one who suggested Colin Kaepernick take a knee as a more respectful show of protest, rather than sitting on the bench? Kaepernick agreed to kneel as a sign of respectful protest, not disrespect. It's ironic that with so much crying about "fake news", that what is being spread and condemned about the NFL players is essentially all just that: fake news.
http://www.snopes.com/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/
Thank you, very well put.
I posted a comment, asking about flag-print Speedo briefs, before I got a chance to read your answer. Thanks so much for confirming the rule, Bradley.
Also, the United States Constitution does not require swearing on a Bible, or other religious text, either. You are allowed to "affirm", which exercises the right to freedom of religion. (Some religions do not permit swearing on the behalf of a graven image or object, such as the Jehova's Witnesses, so saluting the American flag is a huge sin to them.)
Thank you for separating symbols from actions. Flags are pieces of cloth, nations are political constructs. They are no different than sports teams and colors. Such symbols have been used for millennia to rally the masses to a cause, whether it be winning a football game, a war, or a new social paradigm. They are symbols, nothing more. What is important is how people behave, not just in the moment of passion in support of a cause, but all day, every day, as human beings. These men who are protesting in the NFL do so as their law-given right in a country that allows all of us to protest peacefully for a cause. Their cause is the FACT that people of color in this country are still not treated equally under the law. In their protest, they HONOR the symbols of this country in exercising their freedom to protest peacefully. As an American who values the principles laid out in our Constitution, I don't have to agree with their cause, I only have to honor their rights. And, so does the leader of this country.
By not standing for the flag,This is awful. You are disrespecting god ( one nation under God ) and the people that have served our country and gave us are freedom. I believe that if can't respect the flag then shouldn't be allowed to play on the field, There are a lot of young people that look up to them.
The men and women who fight for this country fight for all of our rights, not just the popular ones.
THATS RIGHT Marry and I got up every morning to the bugle to raise that flag and say our pledge. I was there for Taps each night and fold that flag right. Those who don't have the respect, especially those who make MILLIONS in sports disrespect that which gave them a lot. Maybe they need to be REAL MEN and fix the inner cities with the Millions they KNEEL on. When that happens I will support them.
My sentiments exactly.
Many players DO have programs to fix inner cities, encourage physical fitness, and inspire children. But it seems facts are lost on you. What have you done to inspire the masses lately Mike? Oh right, I'm sure your neighbors get all misty eyed each night when you're out there saluting your flag and playing your bugle.
Maybe our politicians need to be REAL MEN, since most of them are men, and fix these things. Isn't that why we voted for them?
What, if anything, are you doing for your fellow humans, Tyson? Do you volunteer, tithe, or bequeath ANYTHING to help? Or are you just a "social justice" warrior? (Which means you just criticize and protest and insult, while you either suck on the government teat, teach somewhere, or live off your parents)
Yea, a man may say, "Show me your human philosophy without your deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." (paraphrased from the Apostle James, to fit the occasion)
Just because one claims to be a nation "under God", doesn't mean that it is. That's really the whole point of this, eh. Perhaps America was a just and moral nation (at the federal level) at one time, but we seem to have lost the plot (according to some/most/all). When "the flag" and all that it represents has been corrupted, it is almost ones duty to raise awareness. The fact that others may disagree with this notion doesn't lessen the merit of a protestor's beliefs.
If these NFL players are so inspired, why don't they take their "Millions", and go into these neighborhoods where these atrocities are taking place and help? Is there a way to help? Can they do more ride a longs with officers to be more involved with both sides of the equation? What we're all not seeing is that white people are killed by police also! Innocence is not always perceived in a flash of a few seconds in times of crisis, Jesus was even an example of that! The Romans perceived him as a threat, they didn't really know him! I believe there are other ways for beings of GOD to help the situation, other than the current disrespect and utter divisiveness this is causing within our nation! Our president has been dealt a country that is being ripped apart by a corrupt system within our government! He has done away with the "Death Tax", did any of you realize your estate got taxed upon your death? There has been a mass murderer jailed now that has been caught in a "Sanctuary City", should we keep allowing people to come into our country and roam around with this mentality? If you keep watching propaganda instead of doing your own research, will it help? These protestors that are raising symbols of racial power over another race, are a serious cause of resentment and tension, is this good?
Please, beings of GOD, open your hearts, and especially your minds, to find remedies and not rhetoric or hate!
Amen
I don't see what god has to do with any of this. Do you really believe that god cares about our nation-building, our political systems, our secular struggles? What ever happened to Love Thy Neighbor? To helping and protecting the poor? To promoting good deeds and living a life of continence and forgiveness? WWJD? Oddly enough, as a non-Christian, I ask myself this question often because Jesus has become a symbol of true christian behavior which, if all Christians actually adopted such behavior we wouldn't be having this conversation. Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
I agree.
Here's the problem... how can anyone disrespect a god by refusing to salute or worship a graven image (the U.S. flag), when the idolators of the Church are claiming that we Pagans, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Pastafarians, feminists, GLBT community, and Pee-Wee Herman managed to throw that god out of the country in the first place?
If your god ain't strong enough to handle a few uppity drag queens, don't be throwing shade.
You have really fell off the deep end. One Nation Under God. The world is under God! You need to read the Bible starting at the beginning. If you what to talk disrespecting God: Lucifer, Adam, Eve, Caine, and the list goes on. God is before all! Give Caesar what Caesar is do, but you don't put Caesar before God. When you unjustly mistreat your fellow man, you have mistreated God.
“Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Matt. 35:37-40
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ Matt. 35:41-43
44 “Then they also will answer Him,[b] saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matt. 25:44-46
How about this: "When I was being beaten and shot, you ignored and denied all that happened to me."
The protest is about compassion and speaking up for those that have little or no voice. It's about social injustice to God's people by the hands of those who follow Caesar. But as I alway say, I mean no disrespect or malice toward anyone, this is just my take on things.
"one nation under God" is not part of our constitution and there is no law that references God. Any American - Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Atheist, etc. (and all such have served this country in peace and war) can honor those who have served this country without ever bringing God into it. The idea that God cares about our pilfering little escapades to capture power and ascendancy over our "enemies" diminishes and disrespects God.
Learned in grade school what it meant to stand and put hand over heart for Pledge of Allegiance. Never learned or was told that standing for the National Anthem was mandatory In several aspects this is a free country to do as we wish. But when someone see's someone else kneeling and not infringing on anyone else's space be told they have to stand. Where's the equal rights for that person. Since my boyhood been kneeling in church without questioning it. People have been kneeling throughout eternity for one reason or another. I say Standing, Kneeling or Locking arms together is the individuals right to decide. Their not whooping it up or causing a disturbance. In the end it all boils down to one thing and that is. PLAY BALL
No, you might be forgetting that he was very angry about disrespectful behavior. He upturned the tables and whipped those nearby for participating in it. He also was not a stranger to tongue lashings. He suffered no foolishness and harshly dealt with law breakers, whether you like to think about that or not. (ie. His conversation with Nicodemus, his teaching about tithing spices and pledging funds meant to care for parents, his scathing condemnation of politically minded morals to a generation of vipers and snakes in Matt 23:33. Your not acting like you know the balance of your Masters teachings.
As we look around the world today, it is so very obvious that many, many people in the United States are ungrateful and self absorbed. We have the greatest country on the planet and yet, many people without real knowledge or reason join a protest or cause just for the recognition and notoriety given them. Many people desire to be involved simply because they live empty, un-fullfilling lives! How sad.
What would the Lord Jesus say? Very easy answer for the seasoned mature Christain. There are three scriptures that answer this: Mark 12:17, John 17:14-16 and don’t forget about John 18:36.
To stand for the national anthem or the United States Flag is NOT an act of worship. To stand is showing respect and this is acceptable in God’s eyes. It is also paying Caesar’s things to Caesar. Requirements made by teams and human organizations are to be repected or do not participate in football or other such things…Easy enough huh?
2 Timothy 3:2-5 …. sums up the majority of protesters and other concerned individuals. Enough said and point made!
Read more at https://www.themonastery.org/blog/2017/10/christian-university-forces-athletes-to-stand-for-national-anthem/#GrIQpFzehiQ5zvZz.99
God gave humans the gift of free will. Free will is a double-edged sword, and it's a double-edged sword of neutral intent, Minister KIM. The sword itself is neither good nor evil, only the actions in which the person uses it.
Some people use free will to do right by others. Some people use free will to harm others. Some people use free will to take advantage of other people's free will. Regardless of what the ends may be, actions require a choice and that choice is based on deciding if the consequences are worth it. There are times when sacrificing one's life is essential for the good of many (or all).
The young men and women we've been sending to "fight for our country's freedoms" over the last 16 years have sacrificed their lives, their futures, their hopes and dreams, and they've watched their brothers sacrifice the same. They didn't just sacrifice their lives for the freedom to choose to salute the flag, they also sacrificed their lives for the freedom to choose not to.
They fought for the freedom to peacefully protest, as much as for the freedom to make choices of your own God-given free will. Some of those choices involve what you think, what you believe, who you love, and who you want to be after you graduate from high school.
Jesus chose to serve humanity, and was willing to sacrifice his Creator-endowed rights of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." It takes a lot of strength to follow someone else's orders... but it takes a lot more to follow your own. I will shake the hand of a veteran before I ever worship the flag.
What is the purpose of your post? A person either understands or they don't....such is the public education system these days........ You must be young and inexperienced. I am a combat veteran and a disabled veteran. Been there and done that! My post explains it all and there is no need to continue with the dogma. Have a nice day...
God just means good orderly direction.
Standing with your hand over your heart is the right way.All there kneeling and nobody knows why is kind of a strange to me but its a free country. Our nation is one under god as soon as you understand that then you will begin to realize where you stand.Also let me remind you all procreation is the only reason you should have sex.Love of god and country is a blessing so I want to call all Americans as Cristians to remember we will be beat down and trampled on as always but will never give up gods work.Love you all! PS.Hope you all find some kind of peace because it is so hard now days.
Standing with your hand over your heart became the official salute for the Pledge of Allegiance in 1942. Until then, it was with your right arm outstretched in front of you (similar to how Nazi Germany saluted, and actually it's because of Nazi Germany that the change happened in the first place.)
When I was living in Mexico for several months, back in 2013, I had an opportunity to observe and participate in a National Anthem and Pledge of Allegiance being held at an escuela (school). I did it out of respect to their country's customs, because I was a guest.
They do not hold their hands over their hearts. They're old-school.
I see my comments are refused hum this page must be mainstream media also,not to allow my comment was a slap in my face.
I Find they are of the LEFT here Jerry, But they are Fair in posting appropriately worded items. I realize political correctness sucks. AMEN and God Bless you!!
Mike...there should be no censorship...and promoting it is more Right than Left...Tom
Wrong there, Tom. 180 degrees off.
John...let me clarify...the true "left" believes in no censorship...Tom
So, you're saying ANTIFA is not the true left?
Antifa, as the violent movement that it has become, is absolutely not the "true left". Antifa is the violent antifascist fringe, and some of the more organized groups are pinging on domestic terrorist watch lists, particularly the ones who go overseas for training.
Terry...as i have said here many times before, there should be no censorship...this is a forum, not 1984...Tom
Amen.
This is the United States where by right, law, formation we as citizens can and should express our God given rights to voice, act, and assemble our convictions.
I believe that your right to protest is a good right BUT when you put in a uniform of any kind you are representing that identity pro football a school police Dept a league and all should show respect for the country they live in .... if they can't show respect then they should have to leave the sport all sports and not represent the league or school or state. They are disrespecting the country and when you are in uniform doing that then you are saying it for all the players and fans for that sport. You are also a icon to many children parents should shut it off if they won't stand and represent in a good and respectful way
Fire them take away their pay take classes online and quit
If they want to protest do it on their own time in their street clothing where they speak for them selfs
Freedom of speach is patriotic.
These players are employees. If they want to protest, they can do it on their own time. I cannot wear a MAGA or "I'm with Her" hat at my place of employment. I am expected to act in a respectable and dignified manner. If I want to exercise my rights, I may do so when I am off the clock!
I really don't understand why people don't get the simple concept Josh. I decided to protest as well I have not watched a ball game since this crap started. I stopped watching baseball when they went out on strike in 96 and have not watched a game since. If people who think what they did is wrong or disrespectful then show it by not watching or going to a game. I know the watching of football was down about 20% for the year. If more people walked the walk instead of just the lip service this stuff would be stopped. Understand I have no problem with the protest just do it on your own time not mine.