A private Christian school in Oklahoma recently expelled a second grader for telling one of her fellow students she had a crush on her.
8-year-old Chloe Shelton told one of her fellow students at Rejoice Christian School that she “likes” her, as children often do. That interaction set off a shocking chain of events that ultimately resulted in Chloe’s ejection from the school.
Expelled For a Crush
Delanie Shelton, Chloe’s mother, explained what happened next to local news. According to her, The vice principal sat Chloe down and told her that “the bible says you can only marry a man and have children with a man,” causing the young girl to cry and question if God even loves her at all. Chloe’s mother was then contacted by the school.
The vice principal was “shocked and appalled” when Delanie Shelton said she thinks it’s actually perfectly okay for girls to like girls and for boys to like boys. The school pointed to the student handbook, which states that it does not approve of same-sex relationships on the grounds of “sexual immorality”, but nowhere in the handbook does it say anything about that being grounds for expulsion.
Chloe’s mother argues that it’s not even a relationship - just a childhood crush. “To an 8-year-old,” she said, “that could just mean that she really enjoys playing on the playground with her.”
During the lively discussion between Mrs. Shelton and the school, she was informed that the school was “terminating” their relationship with the Shelton family, meaning that not only was Chloe expelled, but her younger brother was too.
“They ripped my kids out of the only school they’ve ever really known,” she said. “Away from their teachers and friends they’ve had over the past four years, over something my daughter probably doesn’t know or fully understand.”
Support From the Community
Since her expulsion, Chloe’s received massive support from both her community at home, as well as individuals online. “I feel so loved and supported, thank you so much to everyone who helped me feel better for being who I am,” she told a local news station.
An alum of the school, Kylie Holden, took to social media to help organize care packages and financial donations for the family. Holden, 26, says she waited until after graduation to announce that she is bisexual under similar threats of expulsion from Rejoice.
"I just don't want her to feel like we did," Holden told CNN. "I don't want her to grow up thinking that she is not worthwhile, because that is so not true."
What do you think? Even if the private school is within their legal rights to expel, should Christian schools really be removing students for harmless childhood crushes? Or is the school simply upholding their values - harsh as that may be?
110 comments
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Kathy E. Wamsley
No of course it wasn’t right to expell this child from school. To long have humans hated the differences each of us have. Children are just that children and I believe the words I like you was taken way out of context. Stop it people don’t you remember God made us different!!
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Norma Battes
Well then, any guy that says he loves the Son of God should be castrated and boiled in lard.
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Marathuzula
Clearly this is the same church that organizes genocides and rapes children... but go ahead and tell this girl something is wrong because she said 'like.' This is an Evil god they purport to represent.
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Adrian Jacob Gunter
gonna be honest its against what jesus wanted to be unusually cruel to someone for their personal biases so no this is not ok in any way shape or form
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Lionheart
How do we really know of anything Jesus wanted? Did he even really exist? It’s possible I guess.
🦁❤️
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John P Maher
HEY FOLKs LET US NOT DWELL UPON IT, THE TEACHER is A PERVERT !
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John P Maher
HOW ABOUT SOME NEW T O P I Cs, THANK YOU !
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Benton Wade Standard
At eight years old did she even mean it in a romantic way? Probably not. For the sake of argument let's assume she did mean it in the bi-sexual/homosexual way - it's legal for the private Christian school to do what they did even though it's hypocritical. Hypocritical in what way? Well .... if the little white girl had said the same thing to a little black boy I doubt she'd be expelled for "improper" interracial relations or some other term they might've been used decades ago.
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John P Maher
PROBABLEY its the TEACHER WHOS MIND NEEDS UN-TWISTING, EH ???
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Carl Williams
THIS IS A FAKE STORY BY A GRIFTER WHAT IDIOT DID NOT RESEARCH IF THIS EVERY HAPPENED?
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Albert Douglas DuBois
Thou shalt be bigoted, intolerant and loveless; a destroyer of youth and innocence.
Never saw that in the Bible. It’s obviously an Oklahoma thing.
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Maxwell William Bowling
can confirm.
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Ronald Joseph Dent
Loving relationships make for enduring friendships regardless of age and we need more love in this world if we are to live without fear.
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Brian Scott Hoff
If that school accepts even a single dollar from local, state, or federal governments then it should be subject to the standards of non-descrimination that exist. If they do not get $ then I believe they can do what they believe is correct & deal with the bad PR when people hear about what they have done.
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Laurie Ann Garland
I haven't seen one comment that questions how the principal became aware of the comment Chloe made to the other girl. Who reported it? Did the Mom of the other girl call the school and complain? Did a teacher over hear? Somehow it got escalated to the where the Principal needed to intervene. Next, initially the article says Chloe said "I like you!" It was the author of the article that labeled it a "Crush" and Chloe's mom, Delanie Shelton, who called it a "Crush" When the Principal contacted the Mom it was because Chole was crying. No one knows what his intentions were at that point. When told of the incident and his concern, it was the Mom was the one who turned it into a sexual thing saying "she thinks it’s actually perfectly okay for girls to like girls and for boys to like boys". It was from there the conversation escalated and the children ended up being expelled. It seems logical that: 1. If the mother did not agree with the teaching of the school, then why would she want her children to attend that school.
2. As an Administrator, why would you want the children of a disgruntled parent attending you school. The purpose of sending a child to a private school is because you support all aspects of what they stand for. This is not an issue of whether it is right or wrong on either the school or the parents part, but rather a realization that there was a disconnect between the school and the parent.
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Teresa Barnabei-Cooper
Absurd. They are 8. They are best friends. At this age are they really in love with someone? At 8 I loved dogs and Horses. Met these kids be kids.
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Gary Stephen Lowden
I would like to know if the school received any local, state or federal aid or assistance. Do they pay property taxes on the school property? I bet not. If they want to run a business with contracts etc., let them be taxed as a business. And all the kid said was she liked or loved her friend. Big deal. Can't believe all the biblical analysis and discussion of pedophilia etc.
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Helen D Smith
Can I assume, based on the expulsion of this 8 yr old girl who expressed her "crush" on another 8 yr old girl, that the administration of Rejoice Christian School encourages friendships between girls and boys only? Are they permitted to hold hands? Or hug each other? May they do homework together in each other's bedrooms?
Why does the administration assume the child is gay? What kind of questioning was she subjected to BEFORE HER MOTHER WAS EVEN CONTACTED?
Do I smell enough cause for a suit?
Christianity has gotten many a bad rap for these kinds of un-Christian attitudes. I wonder whether and when those who call themselves Christians will speak out against organizations and leaders who endorse what are unsupported un-Christian beliefs?
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Indeed, for me the core of the issue is a child is needlessly being dealt very real emotional abuse by this school, and anyone crying out poor school and its rights, is literally turning a blind eye to this child being abused, because they care more for the capital then the potential laborer.
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Michael Eugene Gire
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Maxwell William Bowling
I went to the middle school and am currently in the high school. I can personally say that the principal was not a nice person. She tried to expel me over the summer and we had to go to the superintendent because she was breaking policy. The sad thing is everybody still thinks she's a good principal.
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Richard Lee Cornell
Let us have a old fashion witch burning. The head master would make a good flame. Children at the age of 8 have no clue what being liked is like. It is only stupid adults that can make a friendship a evil thing. In this case the head master should be flogged.
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Samantha Guthrie
This is blatant discrimination and homophobia and there’s no way you can spin it to convince me other wise. That school should be ashamed of themselves for creating that amount of trauma in a younge child over something so minuscule and insignificant as a childhood crush.
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Linda Salavarria
Some idiot said this was a Catholic school... WRONG... IT WAS A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL. BIG DIFFERENCE, FOOL! I went to Catholic school for 12 years in NYC. Great education and NOBODY cared if you liked someone, loved someone or were gay.
CHRISTIAN schools, are of evangelical design and they have ALL kinds of rules against ALL types of behavior because god can only fully love you if you conform to their rules. I believe this is the complete opposite of what the bible teaches us, but whatever. They still find a way to interpret the bible to their own biases.
In this particular case I have to compare it to the case of the bakery that would not bake a cake for a gay couple. If it is a private business and a private entity they are within their rights to restrict certain people from doing business with them. It is also within the scope of public choice to not purchase their services. That's said, if I was that parent, I would work my living ass off to have these people lose as much business as possible. Start your own Christian school that teaches tolerance and love. Or raise money for a local charter school so that students that feel rejected by this school can find a home elsewhere. I may be a progressive but I totally believe in rearranging the market place when necessary. This is one of those cases and I hope this parent is able to educate other parents that this is not a good situation for their children, and this school goes out of business through those efforts.
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Thom
Maybe it was a good thing this child was thrown out of the school. If the family wanted to send the child to such a narrow minded place of learning, maybe now they will now see how wrong they were. Schools should be a place of learning. Learning the basic knowledge of life, reading, writing, arithmetic and history. But, schools should also teach students how to think and be their own person. Schools now are only wanting to turn out little sheep who have no idea how to do anything for themselves.
Recently I was in a book store and I overhead someone talking to a friend, on the phone of course, and she was confused because she could not find a book on how to be an adult. That is right, how to be an adult. So many parents are worried about the stupid things in life, what sex their child will believe they are, what sexual orientation they are and so much more that, they forget to teach the basics of life.
If someone does write a book on how to be an adult, I would be interested to see what they have to say.
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Rev. Elizabeth
Wait - did she say I like you or did she say I have a crush on you? I have grandkids and I remember being 8 and I remember saying if I liked someone or if I didn't like them. My grandkids at this age tells me they like someone or don't like someone and why they feel the way they do. Never, ever, did they mean like as a homosexual situation. They like someone because they are platonic in their like. Seriously?? At 8, they are not thinking I have a crush on you. They aren't sexual at that age. Come On!! Talk about homophobia this school is. This poor child is going to be afraid to have friends in fear they will lose something important in their life. The world is hurting our children instead of giving them power and the courage to move forward with who they are. This needs to stop. It won't, it will continue to decline. I read Revelations and all that is happening is part of the plan. I was hoping that the Rapture would have happened by now and then take me in the Rapture so I didn't have to witness what is happening. That poor child not being allowed to tell a friend I like you and then this article calling it a crush??? Really? Define crush. Then look up the meaning of like. DIFFERENT meanings. This is ridiculous on the school and this article.
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Gwendolyn Siobhan Patton
I always have a pang when I hear about the word "like" being sexualized.
When I was a kid, aside from the occasional crush, I generally liked my friends. If I didn't like them, I wouldn't WANT them as friends! I mean, really, taking "like" as what my generation called "LIKE-like", is injecting sexual tension into something by default. This doesn't mean the little girl did something wrong, it means the scolding bluenoses did something wrong. Did they even ASK the little girl if she meant "LIKE-like"? Or did they just assume that when a child "likes" someone, they want to get all sweaty snugglebunnies with them? This looks to more as though the school administrators have dirty minds. Especially dirty minds, since when an 8-year-old girl says she "likes" another girl, their minds flashed instantly to what?
Lesbian pedophilia.
That's where THEIR minds went. They didn't even think that it might just be possible that this little girl JUST LIKED HER FRIEND. A healthy attraction to a friend as someone you want to spend innocent time with is NOT automatically a door-opener into a full-fledged Sapphic sex event! You don't have to schtup ALL of your friends! You can just LIKE them because they're pleasant, fun to be with, and enjoy the same sorts of things you enjoy. When you're 8, that's things like toys and cartoons. And no, the toys are not silicone and shaped like phalluses. Some little 8 year old girls actually find it fun to play with Barbies.
So no, I don't think this was justified. Unless the little girl, when prodded on the issue, declared she wanted a buzz cut, a pair of Doc Martens, and a tub of Joy Jelly on her next play date with the other little girl, I think the administrators need to get their minds OUT of the gutter and go back to teaching 8 year old girls how to read, write, and do math.
Leave the relationship worries to parents...when the time is actually right.
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Craig
This, among many other reasons is why Catholicism is losing members and why people are turning away from organized religion in general.
Homosexuality is here to stay, and for those not paying attention, it always has been here. It doesn't make it wrong. God is so far beyond us in understanding the world and as well as people.
God loves us because of who God is. Not because of something we did or didn't do (it's a quote I heard once and I do not remember the source, but never has a statement made more sense to me).
People judge, and sadly in the name of religion. It is not their right to judge others and neither is it ours. It is time to move beyond these petty, narrow minded interpretations of how we are "supposed" to be, and behave, and just start respecting people.
And by respect I mean respecting people's rights to choose how to live their lives for themselves. If they are not hurting others then leave it be. You have your own life to live--get on with it and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.
Treat others with tolerance and respect and most of our problems disappear.
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John Norris Campbell
Pedophillia has also been around for ages with many parents giving the consent for some money. Now don't you dare judge those ppl and treat them with 'tolerance' eh? yes I'm being sarcastic.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Id say at this point JNC you have made it pretty clear you do not care about the very important factor of one being 2 adults giving consent versus an adult abusing a child who can not ever give consent what with being a child.
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Anisahoni
As a therapist who has provided treatment for child and adult victims of sexual abuse, as well as, treated adjudicated child molesters, for 30+ years, I am calling your statement "many parents giving the consent for some money" a BIG LIE. No one should listen or believe this trash and I wonder what the basis for such an inaccurate statement is all about.
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Simon E Blatta
Of course kicking out a child for this is ridiculous, but perhaps this will save the child from religious indoctrination and also turn more people away form this school and its religion. This kind of intolerance plays a role in the decline in religiosity, and that decline frees the thinking of people.
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Michael Eugene Gire
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Robert N Clarkson
Both are at fault, the school for being so dogmatic they have lost touch with reality. Even as adults any social observer understands women prefer companionship of women and men hang out with men socially. Men have their beer and football, going out with the guys after work, etc. Women gather in coffee shops, trendy boutiques, and gymnasiums. This is natural social interaction among humans with shared interests as well as gender. Denial of socialization based upon sexual taboos is to say the least being overly fanatical.
Then the mother's claim that all her child’s friends are at that school and expulsion would be traumatic and cause instability is also sick. Such over protective isolation prevents the child to grow into a tolerant unjudgmental adult and deny the most basic principles of a faith system walk to that child as she grows into adulthood.
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Ronaldo
If I were the father of little Ms. Shelton, I would have asked that vice-principal if Jesus loved me. As soon as he said 'yes', which he would have, I would have asked, 'does that make Jesus gay?' The discussion may well have ended right there. 'Love' and 'like' are words that are often used in our language with no ties to sex or gender. It's unfortunate that many in our modern society automatically assign the negative potential to all words, regardless of intent. We see this all the time in the news these days. God is more focused on our hearts than our words, as we should be. Faith without works is dead. Works show the nature of our hearts, while professed faith may simply be no more than lip-service.
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Daniel William Fenning
Disgusting! 8 is too young to be expelled and, schools should have NO say in a child's innocent romanticizing
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Rev. Robert
Our Lord professed His love for us all...man, woman, child. How did this get so perverted?
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John P Maher
MUCH ADO ABOUT NIL, TEACHER LEAVE THESE KIDS ALONE !
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Alexander Clarke
When I was that age my buddies and I often walked home with our arms around the others shoulders. We were buddies for life. Girls were just strange creatures from another world. None of us had reached the maturity to have any sexual attractions. As time marched on we all remained friends and we all discovered that somehow these strange creatures called girls were now getting all of our attention. Being eight was great!
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Another child dealt emotional abuse by those who betray every single moral value a teacher of children should feel a need to adhere to.
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The Rev. William C, Millhouse
I feel that the parents are at fault here. If they are a part of that particular Christian group, they should be familiar with their particular stance on same sex relationships. Since they are not in full agreement with the group, then they should not have sent their child to that particular school. Although I find the torture that the school visited on the child totally unjustified, since they are a private school, they have a right to do so. I feel that according to my understanding of Abrahamic Scriptures, and in particular the New Testament, that they are being totally Unchristian.
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SueW
How is this a “sexual” relationship? They’re eight ffs.
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Brien
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Too many of the so called private institutions are hiding behind these made up rules when they cough up these disgusting judgements against... CHILDREN. Enough is enough. If any parent choses to put a child through this brainwashing, then I question their ability to be a parent.
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John Norris Campbell
What part about 'private school' do you not understand? These parents actually pay money to send their children there, AFTER paying taxes to maintain secular schools. State run schools only produce the working class..ie; slave class to serve the elite. Doubt me? Try sending your kid to Yale, Harvard, or any Ivy League school that only produces politicians, captians of industry, and bankers. It's a giant club and your not invited unless you are sponsored by big money.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
These attitudes suggest you lean towards some form of anti capitalism. Which dont get me wrong I understand communist and socialist utopian ideals and they in fact better align with most faith traditions then any of the actual governments in power around the world.
But you also seem sorely confused, as even those who go to such schools are still part of the labor caste or slaves as you call them. Only those so truly wealthy they never need work a day in their life can be called the masters of this world, in the analogue you are making here.
You also seem woefully ignorant about the scam that private schools typically are, especially the christian ones. They do not educate but indoctrinate and forever harm the children they brainwash.
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Brien
well, that is your elitist opinion. There are millions of successful people who went to public school and community college. There are also plenty of stupid people that came out of those institutions you hold in such high regards. And yes, there are plenty of idiots that came out of public institutions as well. I guess the point is, IF THE PARENTS ARE DECENT PEOPLE, THE CHILD STANDS A BETTER THAN GOOD CHANCE TO BE SUCCESSFUL. If the parents are going to rely on brainwashing tactics by some of these so called "private" institutions then they are liable to get a child that has been damaged. WHAT PART OF WHAT I JUST SAID DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? Do not ever talk down to me. I am not a brainwashed person, I think for myself and I call it like I see it. If you don't like it, feel free to stick your head back into the sand. Peace
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Anisahoni
Besides religous bigotry, what is a glaring factor in this case, is that the school employees have never learned a thing about children's mental and emotional development. I encountered ignorant teachers even in the public school systems, who during their education, never had one course on childhood mental and emotional devlopment which caused them to make serious errors, like the one in this case. As a child and family therapist, I had to educate them. It was so sad. They had coursework on child physical devleopment, developmental milestones, in undergraduate teacher education, but were in the dark on the other aspects of growth and development. If the teacher and VP in this case had been properly trained, they would have not considered this to be an issue. They would have understood the natural progression of child behaviors, emotional growth and bonding with age mates. That any of you looked at this as a "sexual" issue shows totaly ignorace of children. I was blessed to have a postive impact on behalf of children and thier parents.
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John Norris Campbell
all my comments are not here
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
This isn't a free for all, John. The ULC only posts what they think is appropriate.
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John Norris Campbell
No, it was'nt that...I've now realized that it takes awhile for them to appear...thanks for your help though!
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Brien
Why does this surprise anyone? The entire basis for the catholic religion is FEAR. My question is why any parent would send a child to be taught fear? I have said before that this religion was created out of superstition and fear and that has not changed. The child is fine, the parents need closer scrutiny. Peace
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SueW
Thank you. The whole thing is abusive on the part of the adults, with no justification.
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John P Maher
GOT THAT 100% CORRECTO MUNDO, SUE W.
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Anisahoni
Rejoice Christian School is not a Roman Catholic school. Actually the foundation of most Christian religions is based on fear, divisivieness, misogyny and racism, ie., us vs. them. The belief that the guy in sky is going to punish them, that the guy is jealous, mean, etc. does not make people have any goodness in them at all. And the ULC is a secular organization, not a Christian organization anyway. This craziness around childen liking each ohter and the paranoia around sexual orientation is absurd and downright pitiful. These religions have done nothing to improve humanity imn over 2,000 years.
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Brien
I agree with all of what you said. I normally do not split hairs when it comes to fictional beliefs that have caused so much harm over the years. So, my question is....just what is christianity based on? It did not just spring up as an original idea so what was this fiction based on?
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Anisahoni
Brien, Below are a few reads on how Constantine and his scribes made it happen. In addition, the historic bible is based on the ancient Sumerian Clay tablets which were interpreted by Zecharia Sitchen and he has published a number of books on his research. Modern Biblical scholars have supported his work ,in addtion to renegade archeologists. Others are so threatened about losing power and control over others, they "debunk" his research. Constantine and his scribes transformed the "gods" to a monotheistic "God" They "deified" a man who became known as Jesus in the NT, who was an Essene, a mystic. People have been misled and argue over myths created by Consantine and they haven't bothered to engage in serious scholarly biblical studies. https://www.ice-age-ahead-iaa.ca/scrp/tbot001.htm http://sitchin.com/
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John P Maher
WELL SOME 75 SEVENTY FIVE YEARS AGO I WAS BEING TOLD / TAUGHT that CHRITIANITY was the TEACHINGs of JESUS and HIS FATHER who has NO NAME SO WE JUST CALL HIM G O D, LIKE O M G !
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Anisahoni
Brien, attached is a good intro on how Constantine and his scribes made it happen. In addition, the historic bible is based on the ancient Sumerian Clay tablets which were interpreted by Zecharia Sitchen and he has published a number of books on his finds. Bible scholars have supported his work in addtion to renegade archeologists. Constantine and his scribes transformed the "gods" to a monotheistic "God" They "deified" a man who became known as Jesus in the NT, who was an Essene, a mystic. https://www.ice-age-ahead-iaa.ca/scrp/tbot001.htm
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John Norris Campbell
I believe the bigger picture is that the child's mother does not hold to core christian beliefs and made her position clear to school officials.The whole idea of being educated in a private school is to bring that child up with bibical values and not the ever changing secular world's view of "to thine own self be true" or "if it feels good do it". Here's a big shocker: Christians are not confused about how many genders there are,or which bathroom to use.We do not want some guy in drag teaching queer principles to small children during "Drag Queen Story Hour".I applaud that school to sticking to bibical principals when trying to correct the kid, who we now know is exposed to that kind of secular world view by her own mother.
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SueW
What is “biblical” about any of this? The word “homosexual” wasn’t even in the bible until the 1940s. People are who they are.
You didn’t decide to be straight. They don’t decide to be gay, or whatever form on the continuum their nature takes.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You JNC seem completely ignorant of core christian values, as a true christian may not ever under any circumstance for any reason challenge or speak out against any. A follower of the christ must only ever speak in peace, and act in charity and service to all other children of god. They may not even speak a word of protest against violence done to them.
Those are the actual core values of the faith from the earliest traditions. I can assure you, that you will never enter heaven unless you can surrender all pride, all vanity, all wrath, all lust, all envy, all greed, and all sloth.Any and I mean any desire to fight, or even speak out in challenge of another is a sin.
You sir are a sinner, lost to hell and I rather doubt anything you can do in the remainder of your life can be enough to atone.
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John Norris Campbell
As most of your reply is steeped in the ignorance of one outside the fellowship of the mystery, I must agree with one point you made: "I doubt anything you can do in the remainder of your life can be enough to atone" You are correct! One must aquaint oneself with the atoning work that Christ Himself accomplished upon His death, burial, and resurection for the lost of this world.Only false religions teach that one can enter heaven based upon his own merits. "For all have sinned and fall short..." It is the FINISHED work of the cross that paid my way into heaven, paid for by the one perfect sacrifice of the Lamb without blemish. Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by GRACE you have been saved through faith, and not of yourselves; it is the GIFT OF GOD, not of works lest anyone should boast." My prayers for you and anyone else reading this is to open your heart to the Truth and recieve this FREE gift of salvation offered to all who recieve it. God Bless!
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You seem both ignorant of actual ancient christian faith concepts, and of the ULC which is a secular ministry that does not hold to nor support insular beliefs such as you keep pushing.
If you can not express your faith here as entirely personal, with no bearing nor impact upon others, you will continue to find yourself at odds with the vast majority of those who are ordained through the ULC.
Among other things the ULC is entirely supportive of LGTBQ communities, and them being allowed to engaged in faith traditions like marriage if they should so desire as well as not suffer abuse by the closed minded zealots like you that are no better then those in parts of the middle east who push their religion as fact.
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John Norris Campbell
I am not 'pushing' my beliefs but sharing them as you are yours. Finding myself "at odds" with the likes of people like yourself is an entirely comfortable position. I need not 'judge others' outside my faith because they stand judged already according to scripture. You seem to be a hate filled little person with nothing postive to share, and that is simply my opinion forged upon reading your responses to myself as well as others. You and the rest of the lost are in my prayers. Farewell little buddy.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
As always you spew bile and prove yourself to not even be one of the christian faith. As one who is actually well versed in the OT, and NT in their earliest forms, you just in this post alone prove yourself one damned forever in the eyes of the deity you claim to follow the ancient traditions and teachings of.
As one who is a minister here in good standing who adheres to the secular values of the ULC you are indeed one who has no position to act in other then supplication and subordination if you wished to be treated with respect. Especially as one who claims ot be a christians you are expected to adhere to those values which not one of your posts do.
We are perfectly happy to engage with honest secular minded christian ministers who adhere to the greater tenants of the ULC. but those like you who seem to come here only to cause conflict prove yourself no true follower of the faith you are a pretender of.
A true christian would sooner pray for the soul of his slayer then raise a word in protest of the violence done to them.
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Anisahoni
Well stated Ilmenheru Terikson. Now I remember why I avoided coming here for awhile. People who claim to be Christian become so vile and nasty. This a thread about an innocent child and it has become a sh*tstorm. Christians who act like the one above you are a perfect example why young people avoid organized religion unless they have been brainwashed already. These pretend Christians are not biblical scholars, hardly understand the ancient texts, bash others and do nothing to improve the lives of humanity. They fail to understand the teachings of Jesus and always refer back to the mean, nasy, jealous, misogynist, hateful god of the Jewish Bible. Lawd have mercy on them.
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John Norris Campbell
Please enlighten me to exactly what I said that was so very "vile and nasty"...and exactly who is this 'Lawd' you invoke to provide mercy.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
I understand all too well CoG if I may humbly dare abbreviate your name. Honestly kind of cool initials you have there by the by very steam punkish of a nickname you could have there just saying;)
I actually tried to engage this new zealot with civility, but he made it pretty clear pretty quick he is one of those who can not fathom a moral difference between two consenting adults, and an adult abusing a child. In their mind they have decided its not the consent that makes it right or wrong but some divine mandate.
This reminds me all to well of another infamous false christian zealot on these forums who fully admitted that if they did not believe in god they would see nothing wrong with raping even there own mother/sister/daughter etc as in their mind it is god and his rules that make it wrong, not simple civil and social based morality.
These are the kind of madmen who simply can not be reasoned with, only dressed down so they do not think themselves to intimidating to be challenged.
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John Norris Campbell
LOL!!! "a secular minded christian" You have offically removed any doubt about my previous opinion of your toxic rhetoric. FYI: there is no such thing as a 'secular minded christian' Perhaps you are refering to an apostate Christian..as in one who started with the truth but was turned aside to man's idea of what God has already made known...in the name of 'tolerance' it's going to be ok little buddy...just breath and ask the Almighty for guidence...1Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not recieve the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerened." You see? There is a scripture in the Holy Bible just about little ole you. God Bless you on your quest.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You seem completely divorced from reality. And you clearly are just a troll. The ULC is a secular ministry. The United States is a secular nation. Anyone pushing insular faith traditions is a person without any merit on these forums or in the U.S. and you have rendered yourself an invalid entity on these forums.
Let me sum it up very simply for you mkay. Insular=EVIL. Full stop, nothing to argue nor debate. You are clearly not a minister here, and certainly not one in good standing. So you can take your vile rhetoric that has no place among the good free thinking people of this world and slink back to the cesspit that spawned you.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Oh JNC how foolish you make yourself look.A fair number of the worlds biblical scholars agree that corinthians was not added until at the earliest 300AD to the book. making it not part of actual core christian tradition, just a tag on by false christians later on.
But keep on proving your not a real member of that faith. Every word you write in other then contrition and supplication of my forgiveness proves this a simple fact.
If you still have 2 cells of grey matter left to rubber together, Ill make it very clear, here on the ULC forums, for Christians to find welcome, they must actually practice and preach what we non christian non-denominational ministers are still well versed enough to grasp, that only those who speak of peace and charity, love and fellowship for all of humanity are members of that faith worthy of civility and to be treated as a peer here.
Those who don that faiths mantle as some kind of armor while seeking to dictate and spread conflict will only be dismissed and dealt with as I have with you. And considering the moderation these forums undergo actively, you may want to take note that even my atypically aggressive posts towards you have not been removed, because you have made it more then obvious you are not a secular minded member of the ULC I suspect.
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Rev. Roe
I wonder about those that are so quick to jump on this judgment bandwagon, how they would feel if they suddenly realized that one of their own, a son, a daughter or a grandchild we’re gay. Would it be fair than to say that they were just on their own and cast them aside and not love them? I think not . Let God be the judge
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
When my nephew came out, my then 80 year old mom, a lifelong devout Catholic, let it be known in no uncertain terms that he would be loved and welcomed in her home. His partner, too, if he did find someone special. We were not really surprised, as she has always tried to practice Cristian Love, and Tolerance.
My dad was like that, too, even about one's personal religious beliefs. He once told me (I am a Heathen) that while they did not fully understand my beliefs, he and my mom knew I had not been a Catholic for a very long time. He said they thought my beliefs helped my be a better man, and they therefore approved.
I told my nephew that it did not matter. BUT, if he paired up, better treat them right, or he'd have me tear him a new one.
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Clifford
The Law of Attraction is a Natural Law. And therefore doesn’t discriminate. However as ministers representative of creation. Its not our place to judge but rather council.
Gender confusion can occur at any age.
But in most cases is limited to brotherly or sisterly love.
Whether child or adult .
It’s when sexual boundaries are crossed that infatuation or attraction loses its innocence.
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Robert J Giammarco
Such rediculousness. Any child would say that to a fellow class mate. Well, this is what the left and RAT'S have done to this Country. Right away, cause a disruption that causes much angst for the child, which at such a young age they do not fully understand. Such a shame as to what society today is causing to our children.IMHO.
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SueW
I’m pretty sure there’s no “left” here. Not sure what “RATS” are. Sounds like name calling from kindergarten.
It’s definitely ridiculous. They’re kids. Nothing sexual here for anyone to lose their minds over.
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James Riggle-Johnson
OMG... 8 year-olds have crushes. I even wanted to marry my mom at one point and it turns out I'm gay. I didn't even put all that together until I was a teenager. This school needs to get a grip on reality and let kids be kids. Just Sayin
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SueW
Absolutely! They’re at the age where girls think boys are yucky.
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Victoria Holt
I held hands with my best friend on the play ground at school everyday until we were in the 4th grade. We both married men! We both had children and now grandchildren. We would hug and probably give each other a cheek kiss if we were ever reunited in person.
This private school is over the top! If I were a parent with a child in that school, I would organize the parents and argue to collectively remove as many children from the tuition rolls as possible. I would also file a lawsuit against the school for mentally abusing my child. Hit’em in the pocketbook! The school is a business for the church to generate revenue for their cause. That ought to fix the problem really fast, and give the admistrators a thing or two to think about when their bosses want to know why enrollment and tuition revenue is down!
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John Norris Campbell
You obviously have no idea exactly how/why parents send their children to PRIVATE school...and not some federally funded secular school. Guess what? Private schools can and do make their own rules according to their own beliefs. Just check out any Ivy leauge school like Yale, Harvard, or Princeton. All of these were founded on Christian principles and guess what? Back then if one did not adhere to those rules and regulations they were kicked out. You know why? Because before admission one had to sign a contract to abide by the rules of the school and that included attending chapel and church services. There are plenty of secular schools that not only encourage perverated behavior but celebrate it.
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LB
Absolutely!! Children hold hands hug because they are not tainted yet by society “norms”. For goodness sakes let the children love before they learn to hate!!
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JaZe
I like chocolate. Does that mean I have a crush on chocolate? 😍
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Jeremey Joe Ellis
Garbage in, garbage out. Kids are getting sexually confused by television, social media, and Hollywood, for sure. Also what public schools and so called "progressive" teachers promote is garbage too. Marxism at its best to destroy America. I honestly think there should be an in-depth evaluation of the 8 year old. And yes, the parents should read the fine print of school policy. Buyer beware. As Christians I believe we do reserve the right to keep our education halls pristine. Amazing how everyone loses their minds on Christian fundamentals decreed by God Himself, like; "How dare they do that to this lesbian pre-teen! How dare they destroy her education over this homosexuality!" But a kid gets booted from school wearing an American flag shirt or maga hat and everyone applauds saying; "Yeah that kid deserved it!" Typical double standard.
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SueW
There’s absolutely no indication that this is even a sexual situation. When I was that age, boys were icky, and I couldn’t imagine growing up and feeling differently. People are so afraid of their kids being different that they scrutinize every move from the time they can walk.
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John P Maher
EXACTLY SUE W, VERY CURIOUS WHAT DO THEIR PARENTS HAVE to SAY, PEOPLE CAN'T RUN THEIR OWN LIVES BUTT THEY SURE WANT to RUN EVERYBODY ELSES ???
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Fr. Tony
The parent signed a contract detailing the school’s rules and expectations. The mother admitted that she failed to read the document. This story was run on national media. I was taught to read a document BEFORE signing it. As a faith based institution the school has the right to have dictates in place derived from its faith structure. The parent also has the right not to send their child to the school if those dictates run contrary to his or her personal beliefs. This is a non issue. Maybe the parents in this case will be more aware of their actions and be more educated about where they choose to send their child to school in the future not to mention read a contract before signing it
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Tony, you sadly fall into the trap of placing first the concern upon an institution then a person. This is a common failing in society today, and frankly shows a deep and disturbing lack of empathy for your fellow living creatures.
The first and frankly only thing that matters in this case, is that this school has used the law meant to protect our secular values, and twisted it to justify abuse of a child.
Because that is at the core all that matters here, that a child has needlessly suffered because of needless bigotry by people who claim the mantle of faith in the name of the tradition they do not even begin to adhere to the actual tenants of.
When you put contracts before a concern for a child, you sir have already invalidated yourself in a discussion among ministers who are by greater tenants of the ULC always to put first and foremost the needs of people, never the needs of some business. We do not minister to things, we minister to living beings.
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Adam Paul Shivers
Remember that this business was established by people, people who wanted exclusive rules mind you, but nevertheless - people. As we point the finger at someone standing in judgement of another, we too are judging. If we started a car club we may not want bikes or pogo sticks to qualify. We also might believe that driving cars in a different fashion shouldn't be tolerated, especially during car shows or races. We, as the people that have a right to found a car club, may be inclined to touch on these rules when members sign up. These people, in particular are afraid of their children needlessly suffering due to unwanted beliefs creeping in. I'm not choosing a side here. Just pointing out there are two sides. I, as a Christian (formerly fundamentalist) have had to speak about a similar situation that occurred in our local kids Christian drama group. You would not believe the fear that was revealed (as they believed me to be as fundamentalist as they were). These parent's are scared to death that their children would be exposed to this culture. I believe that we need to know who we are so that we can know who we are not. This requires much more inner work/seeking than most are willing to endure.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Jeremy, you seem highly confused, God is a personal fiction, and any attempt to push an insular outlook renders all you entirely invalid on a site that only adheres to secular values, nor would any citizen loyal to the founding secular ideals of the U,S, push insular attitudes about a faith as you do. As such I can safely deem you an enemy of the U.S. and one intent on undermining the good values of this nation.
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John Norris Campbell
Secular values can also be classified as a personal belief system...an ever changing belief system that changes as often as the seasons. Chairman Mao, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and others all had particular world views that they convinced others to participate in to the tune of 100's of millions of lives lost. Slavery is still a very popular world view in many parts of this world, a belief held by millions as being a just and nobel cause.In case you haven't noticed, this forum has many people from many different belief systems...you know? As in COEXIST??? To personally attack another's belief system because you, in particular, do not agree with it is beyond arrogance and borders on intolerance.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You really seem confused JNC. The United States is a nation founded on a secular position concerning all faith traditions. The ULC is a nondenominational secular ministry. No one who considers themselves a part of an insular tradition can claim to be a minister held in good standing and belonging here among our ranks.
Do you not understand that Insular is to believe from a position that your faith tradition is not just a personal thing but some cosmic truth all must submit to? Which is what you are doing here, and is no different then those who practice horrors in the middle east based on their own insular outlook.
No true citizen of the U.S. would ever consider themselves part of an insular faith tradition, to do so would literally make one an enemy in opposition of all that is good in the nation.
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Daniel Gray
Their school, their rules. You dont join or attend the school and then get up set when you are suspended for violating the rules.
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SueW
What rule could an eight year old possibly violate? Little girls are friends with other little girls.
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Daniel Gray
and using that logic how could any child know if they are gay or not at that age? Cant have it both ways
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ronald wolfe
I dont believe at 8 years old this should be a concern. Most 8 year old's just like their friends a lot, to play with, and hang around. I do not believe she should be expelled for this. However Unless the private school receives government funds, they should have the right to expel any one they want for any reason, provided they are truly private. I'm sure there is some type of contract signed by the parents agreeing that the school can expel anyone they choose to.
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Lionheart
I’m sure that if the 8 year old had said she liked the Principal it would have been more than okay.
🦁❤️
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John P Maher
BRAVO LIONHEART, AND to PARENTS LISTEN to the WORDS, TEACH YOUR CHILDREN WELL or its YOU WHO WILL GO TO HELL, GUIDENCE, GUIDENCE, MORE GUIDENCE, THE WATCHMEN !
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Don’t we first have to determine what determines if someone is a man or a women? With one out of every 200 born having some kind of sex disorder it’s not that easy. The school officials need to go to school.
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Rebecca L Tice
Sex disorder? Are you saying my grandchild.... who was in a Christian School for years and years.... and is still a gay woman.... has a "sex disorder"?
Where did that come from? I've been where you are... afraid... confused.... but "sex disorder"?????
Noah had three sons on that Ark. God was in total control.... If God didn't want Ham to be on the Ark... knowing that before the flood waters had totally receded Ham would be cursed by Noah for something Ham said or did when Noah was naked..... then why would God allow Ham to get on the boat?
"Sex disorder"???? God sculpted my grandchild with the same care He used when He sculpted you. He counted the hairs that would grow from my grandchild's head just as He did yours.... "Sex Disorder"????
My grandchild is gay.... that's just who she is.. she doesn't have a disorder...you need to read your Bible again there bucko.... I've been where you are.... in pure ignorance.... God chose to put Ham on the Arch... and there is still a secret to be told in the Book of Revelation....
Sex Disorder indeed.... ugh Just another opportunity for one big headed human to be cruel to another human being... Jesus didn't teach that.... ugh
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John Norris Campbell
A 40 year old man in Dallas was recently arrested for his attraction to young girls. His defense was that was how God made him and there was nothing he could do about it. He tried counciling, therapy, and denial. He was told he had a sex dis-order and that he was sick. He never hurt, or raped the young girls he was interested in, but instead showered them with gifts and the affection and attention these girls did not get at home. The police and angry parents called this "grooming" the child to engage in consensual sex. Using your criteria, God sculpted this man,counting every hair on his head and blessing him with an attraction to prepubescent 11 year old girls. "but thats against the law" Well so was homosexual sodomy not too long ago. During the trial, one of the girls declared her love and promised to write him and wait for him until his release. By then he will be in his 50's and the girl will be 21. Love is love yes? Or perhaps there is a darker power at work in the minds of weak parents who insist on exposing their own children to perversions and calling it "normal"
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Oh JNC I see now, you are one of those. types. Even trying to use false equivalency to draw a line between consenting adults and their behavior and someone predating upon a child, suggest you yourself have no issue predating upon children.
You seem to not understand what mental abuse is.Or more likely you do, and either do not think it an issue, or actually more likely are one who does this kind of degenerate behavior towards children. As no sane and decent human being who condemns such predatory behavior would even think to make such a statement as you have.
You clearly are not even speaking based on any thing you actually read, because you so incorrectly use the term sex disorder as to shine truth on your lies.
A sex disorder would be not being able to get a hard on. What you are claiming, would have been defined in court as a mental illness needing to be treated.
Gawds you Magats are just endlessly vile in the kind of bile you spew.
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John Norris Campbell
My point was shining light on the exact same formula used to legalize sodomy in this country. The EXACT same play book used by the homosexual activists can be used to normalize all forms of sexual preference. I'm not entirely sure what a Magat is but you seem to believe I am one. I was raised in a Catholic boy's home after my parents died when I was 7. I, too was given the attention and 'love' from the Benedictine monks that I craved after my loss. I was not 'raped' in the violent sense of the word but was taught it was just normal behavior between men and boys. Like in the Greek and Roman empires this behavior was considered just a 'rite of passage'.I spent my teen years and early 20's seeking the 'love' offered by men much older than me, until I discovered women. I was never attracted to children, and my attraction to men was just a learned behavior. After 2 failed marriages and several kids later I am now celebate for over 8 years, because I believe what the Holy Bible says about Fornication, Adultery, sexual immorality, lying, cheating, bearing false witness, stealing, being untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful and unforgiving. Is this "the bile" you claim I 'spew'? Seems like you are the one that must still contend with your own personal demons. May you come to the knowledge of the truth my friend, God Bless!
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Gwendolyn Siobhan Patton
Our Covenant with God says that we have FREE WILL. It also means that, when we pass on, we will be judged for the results of our free will. BY GOD.
Leave the judgement to the true judge. That's not our place.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You are very confused, my own personal spiritual code includes aspects of the Zodiac, my symbol being that of Libra, I am very much meant to act as a set of scales weighing all that I see before me.
If your own personal faith tells you not to judge, I fully respect and endorse your right not to, but telling others to obey your faith traditions is insular thinking with no place here.
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Anisahoni
"Legalize sodomy" wow, so someone has concens about anal or oral sex between consenting adults? How is it perverted? How about staying out of our bedrooms and minding what goes on in yours? It really creepy to see some people thinking about or fantasizing about what others do in the privacy of their lives. Really weird. Oh, that's why they have blow up sex dolls cause they can;t get it on with a real loving and sexy, human.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You really are twisted, so broken you cant even seem to fathom what you are saying. There is nothing from some playbook. The rights of two consenting adults no matter gender preferences are not in any way equivalent to predating upon children.
That you can even think as you do suggests you in dire need of serious therapy.
One is only and entirely an act of violent abuse, no matter how your damaged mind seems to think of it. The other is an act between two adults who are entirely within the rights of personal autonomy to consent to an intimate interaction no matter race,gender, faith, etc etc etc.
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John Norris Campbell
You, dear 'person' are a hate filled monster dislocated from society....you, yourself need to abolish your own deep seated demons before casting judgment on anyone...they have you blinded, you thinking that I condone such behavior leads me to these conclusions. For the record...I only bring up such preverted behavior because those that follow will use the same ideas you so much love and embrace. to futher their own agenda. That dear human is a fact.
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SueW
I hope your granddaughter is never treated this way for being who she is.
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Jeremey Joe Ellis
It's easy, really. You have "in door plumbing," or "out door plumbing?" God only made two. And man cannot change the word of God to suit him. Amazing how this subject confounded so many.
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Brien
That is YOUR interpretation. Please stop trying to be the judge for everyone else. It is ok for you to believe as you do, but not everyone believes in your mythical being. The brainwashing tactics are just getting tiresome. Peace.
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Seems to me that there is a truth in advertising issue here. If a school purports to be a Christian school, one would naturally expect that the school follows the teachings of Christ; hence the name "Christian". The teachings of Christ can be summed up as "be kind to one another and look out for each other's welfare." I don't see anything in the Gospels about how prepubescent children should conduct their friendship. Once the school has the kindness thing down, they can move on to other things but it is painfully apparent that they have a long way to go on the road to kindness.