The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints just added an assortment of new policies to their handbook that put restrictions on transgender members.
The policies restrict trans members from working with children, and prevents them from attending gender-specific overnight events for the gender they identify as. The updated handbook also restricts baptisms on trans members who have medically or socially transitioned, and prevents trans members from pursuing the priesthood.
The controversial changes have left trans Mormons wondering: "do we belong?"
New Guidelines Alienate Trans Members
“Gender is an essential characteristic in Heavenly Father’s plan of happiness,” reads the updated Mormon handbook. “Church leaders counsel against pursuing surgical, medical, or social transition away from one’s biological sex at birth.”
“Leaders advise that taking these actions will result in some Church membership restrictions,” warns the updated guidelines.
Though the handbook says that transgender individuals are welcome in the LDS Church, there are numerous restrictions on them. The updated guidelines prevent trans Mormons from:
- Working with children
- Serving as teachers
- Attending mixed-gender overnight events
- Attending gender-specific overnight events matching their gender identity
- Pursuing the priesthood
- Receiving or using a temple recommend
- Using their preferred restroom when other people are in it
- Pursuing some church callings
- Being baptized
With the slew of changes targeting gender identity, the Church is making their stance clear: for transgender members to enjoy the full benefits of LDS membership, they must socially and medically “transition back to their biological sex at birth.”
Helpful or Harmful?
Mental health experts worry about the consequences of the new policies. Utah therapist Tyler Lefevor described the changes as "really unfortunate." He continued: “The greatest harm is in the implication for trans members of the church just saying, ‘We really don’t want you here, please leave, (and) if you’re going to be here, you have to conform to these really high level of expectations on how you present yourself.'"
Taylor Petrey, religion head at Kalamazoo College, said that the updated guidelines make Mormonism “much more restrictive and much less accommodating than there used to be space for.”
Meanwhile, LGBTQ+ advocates say the new policies are clearly intended to marginalize trans members and either push them out or force them to change their identities.
Do Trans People Belong in the LDS Church?
In its official communications, the Church expresses empathy for transgender members.
“[Transgender people] often face complex challenges,” the handbook states. “They—and their family and friends—should be treated with sensitivity, kindness, compassion, and Christlike love. All are children of God and have divine worth.”
However, the Church also makes it clear that it believes that loving trans people does not involve affirming their gender identity.
It’s no secret that the LDS Church has had a complicated – and often surprising – relationship with the LGBTQ+ community. For decades, engaging in same-sex relations was grounds for excommunication, only for the Church to completely flip-flop on that stance in 2022 when they endorsed the Respect for Marriage Act, which legally protects same-sex marriages.
Now they’re putting harsh restrictions on transgender members… but with open arms and a smile. Who knows what’s next?
What do you make of the new guidelines?
118 comments
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Vincent Paul Therrien
Oh my. The church "welcomes" trans folks but won't baptize them? How less welcome can one be if they can't be baptized?
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Russel A. Kester
It seems that the Mormon Church is staying true to a fundamental belief that God does not err in creating one as either male or a female. The error is on the part of the person who seeks to change it, telling God that He made a mistake. We are to learn from our current incarnation which includes learning what is means to be man or a woman.
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Stephanie A Willey
Did God err when she created me transgender ? I don't think so.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
No, She did not err with you nor with my transgender daughter ♥️🏳️⚧️♥️
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Rev. Klaire ThD, MA
Stephanie, Russel has no voice here. His comments are irrelevant. Please ignore whatever you see him post.
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Paula Copp
Klaire, your point is perfectly stated. Nobody is trying to silence free speech, Russel. It’s your bigotry that I reject.
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Russel A. Kester
Klaire, your comment makes clear that you want to stifle free speech. Stephanie has agency and can decide things for herself. The ULC Monastery decides who does or doesn't a voice here not you or me.
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Henry Gordon. Weed
Every one has forgotten God created us male and female for a reason and he can not make a mistake. We all have a purpose but not the right to change what we were created . See.s as though alot of people need to read the beginning of geniuses agan
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Jeffrey Johnson
Looking at it as God making a mistake is skewed. If God doesn't make mistakes, then why is there cancer and childhood disease and starvation? If the Bible is infallable, then why does Exodus 21:7 give directions for a man to sell his daulghter? Why does Leviticus 25:44 give us permission to buy and sell slaves? Why does Exodus 35:2 instruct us to KILL anyone who works on the Sabbath? Do those actions sound like good ideas? Are or were they mistakes in the Bible?
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ServantOfJudgement
Stephanie, if your good is a she I doubt she had anything to do with how you were formed.
What you did after the womb has nothing to do with our creator. Doctors, hormones, scalpels, clothing stores and and combination of those had everything to do with how you are now, not God.
In other words, you created the person you are.
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Rebecca L Tice
Didn't Jesus address this Matthew 19:12? He said, concerning eunuchs, some are natural, some are chosen, and some are changed by others? Wasn't Daniel a Eunuch?
God has his hands in everything. Some have a path others wouldn't take.
Perhaps the path you took to get the title of "Servant of Judgement" is a path others would avoid at all costs.
John 3:16 says Jesus came so ALL of us could enjoy life everlasting.
Read the book... before making Judgement.
TIA
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Russel A. Kester
Stephanie, how wonderful to have a transgender person speak up. Why do you believe you were created transgendered? Here's why I ask. A book that I am almost done reading, Queer Theory Gender Theory, argues that gender does not exist and is only a social construct which I believe agrees with sociologists Judith Butler. If gender is only a social construct, then how can God have created you as a transgendered person? Wouldn't gender need have an inherent and enduring existence within a person to be experienced as created by God? But if so, how can it be nothing more than a social construct as advocated by Wilchins and Butler?
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Patricia Ann Gross
Russel, As gender is a social construct, which I also believe, God made Stephanie (as with most trangender people I know) with many of the talents and passions that society (not God) has determined to be male. The problem is that the box that society has determined is male or female does not fit these people so their only option to be able to fit into that box is to change genders. Transgenderism won't disappear until society is able to quit normalizing roles and behaviors according to the XX/XY allignment.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, a thoughtful response without any contradictions that I could detect. Here we will continue to disagree about gender as a social construct. As I engage with you and others, I suspect our understanding of what it means for something to be a social construct or not could be an underlying cause for our differences. I'm still pondering your metaphor of checked boxes and the fe/male dichotomy to describe your understanding of why some people claim to be transgendered. I look forward to future articles touching this topic after I've had time to "sit" with your perspective and it's claims. I might see one issue with your view which is that Stephanie's claim wasn't that she chose to be transgendered because of societal descriptors included in the "check boxes" of fe/male, but that she was created by God as transgendered and God created we humans as XX/XY.
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Patricia Ann Gross
Russel, Psychology Today has a lot to say on trandgender, genderqueer, and gender dysphoria. While most lean toward the social construct, there are others with differing opinions of whether someone who is "socially programmed" one way can choose to act differently, suggesting that it is more likely an underlying mental disorder. The research is still being conducted, and I may not know the compelte answer in this lifetime.
The XX/XY dichotomy I mentioned was more toward my own lived experience as one who, while identifying as female, have a significant leaning more toward the male "characteristics." These include physical characteristics, voice, and skills. While I am a caring and empathetic person, evidenced by years of case management work (aligning me with the XX), I also have significant scientific, leadership, and analytic skills (which align me more with XY). I don't know nor did I ever attempt to speak for Stephanie's experience. Currently, those who exhibit more of the gender traits of the opposite sex assigned at birth (in particular, "effeminate" males, and "butch" females") have few options for acceptance. It is a horrible place to be when your brain's wiring is not consistent with the way society is programmed to think and accept people.
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Robert Gagnon
That's a personal issue. Body comes as a package. What you do with it, how you accept it, or disguise it remains an issue of free will. As for the Mormon church, it is their church and their rules same as in anyone's home. When in someone else's domain, you follow their rules or you stay away. Pretty simple concept. Is that not the very definition of freedom? Freedom to avoid unpleasantness, or run your household as you see fit?
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Lionheart
I’m thinking that God was possibly transgender anyway. If us men were made in his image he must have had nipples….right? Even though we didn’t need them. That was a major boo-boo on his part.
He made up for it though by also giving them to females as well. Clearly, that was a huge step in the right direction. 🤪
🦁❤️
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Russel A. Kester
Lionheart, funny. However, your comment shows a complete misunderstanding of what it means to be created in God's image. But what's a materialist to do?
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Lionheart
Yes, you're right. I realize it must have been a figure of speech, because otherwise, how did women get their female bits from a male god if they were made in his likeness. He could of course have been an hermaphrodite 🤪
I wonder if God had a navel? 🤭
🦁♥️
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Paula Copp
We have nipples because all zygotes are female at conception…
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Russel A. Kester
Paula, I was about to respond with "true" because that is what I've always heard. But is it? I realized that confirming your comment might jeopardize my statements on the differences between males and females and that one cannot become the other. Quandary! What to do? I think I'll take a page from Bill Clinton's playbook and argue the meaning of "is." I don't really have much else. ARE all zygotes REALLY female or do they just appear as female because the Y chromosome has yet activated to do its job in uterus to transform the ordinary into the extraordinary? On the cellular level it's still has XY chromosomes!
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Lionheart
I don’t know about Mr God, but perhaps Mrs God has a lot to do with it. I notice she keeps quiet a lot and leaves Mr God to do all the talking. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Mrknowitall
To be created in the image of God is to be born again. To be born again is when God places some of his spirit in you. God is spirit, when a person becomes born again they become a spiritual being. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not wise and does not know Gods word
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Mrknowitall
God did not ' create ' you, your parents did......God created Adam and eve only, to create and know are 2 different things
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Robert James Ruhnke
In these are just Bronze Age beliefs before we studied the human body more closely without the religious biases on
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ServantOfJudgement
Can you imagine Robert, waking up and believing you actually know what a woman is? Those poor bronze age fools actually did that. How terrible to be that naive.
Today we've got geniuses to help us figure out that we don't know what a woman is. Took us 4000 years but better late than never huh?
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Imagine telling goD he made a mistake on his gender assignment, everyone knows goD doesn't make mistakes.
So of course, surgery for anything congenital is telling goD she's wrong
surgery for anything is telling goD it was wrong
medicine to cure disease is telling goD they are wrong
using cpr to save a life is telling goD is wrong
claiming that gender reassignment is telling goD she is wrong is just stupid. gobsmack stupid. first of all how can ANYONE know what goD is going to think is wrong. moreover if that whole blanket insurance statement that man is made in the image and likeness of goD then goD has to be both male and female and maybe, depending on their mood, they can be either male or female and so a little genetic mis-wiring, a mis-timed flood of hormones and oopsie, goD done screwed up. Or did she? Or does goD understand that these things happen and goD loves them no matter what and if there is a human (goD inspired) intervention to make that person happy and whole would goD actually deny them that intervention?
Or is it just self-righteous, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, ponderously and willfully ignorant and judgemental people who pretend to know the mind of goD and then act as if they are divinely inspired AND authorized to go about attempting to cast into hell people they have judged and found guilty
So either one accepts that the bibble is inerrant AND lives their lives in absolute accordance with it, no exceptions or, accept that it was written (read: made up) by man, is not the word of goD and is simply a book of stories that attempt to teach lessons on how best to live
For instance, a gay can be a cathaholic but has to be non-practicing. In other words they are straight with bi/gay fantasies that they have to lock up in their brain and live as a straight person (like priests, bishops, etc).
Because they know that it makes their goD very happy to observe his sea-monkeys living fruitless, unhappy, despondent, depressed and even suicidal lives all for the glory of their genocidal, infanticidal, manic-depressive, bi-polar goD by denying themselves the fruits of the way they are and were made by their goD who made many mistakes, so many mistakes you won't ever need to make mistakes because their goD already has.
Or maybe people need to just shut up and let their goD take care of the things that are goD's business and just live their own lives instead of their constant judging and finger-pointing and shaming and thinking they know the mind of their goD
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John Condron
These restrictions are identical to their rules for sex offenders. This is offensive on so many levels!
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Rev. BH
Basically, though in a round-about way, they equate the LGBTQ+ community with sexual predators..
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Russel A. Kester
The article told us how the Mormon Church is reacting to the presence of trans persons in the midsts of its congregations and activities not how it is responding to lesbians, gay men, or bisexuals. So it is inaccurate to say it is responding thusly to the alphabet community as a whole (LGB and T and Q).
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Robert James Ruhnke
“If members feel same-sex attraction and are striving to live the law of chastity, leaders support and encourage them in their resolve“ this is not a blazing endorsement, Kester. I have mormon friends and their conservative friends who refer to us all at The Gays lol. That’s why we are the LGBTQ+ community. Rogue Mormons are some of my favorite people on the planet. They are the kindest souls on earth.
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ServantOfJudgement
Robert, to a straight person there's straight and gay. Not trying to be offensive, just saying what it is.
That's why straight people don't have 10 acronyms for being straight. We just don't care enough about sexuality to dig up various versions of a straight guy. We don't identify through sexual preference.
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Michael Hunt
Except you do identify by sexual preference, it's just so normalized that you don't notice that you are.
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Robert Gagnon
Normalized or normal would be referred to as by design. By design would describe sexual function for procreation only. To use the expression normalized is to infer that straight is normal and everything else abnormal or as in addition too. So, yes straight is the base line which does not require further description.
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Colleen McAllister
My mother's family was Mormon on both sides all the way back to the founders. When the church became too judgemental my siblings and I pulled away and my mother too. It truly isn't a cult but a beyond fundamental group of hypocritical old white men who lord it over the rest. It is a pity that they don't follow the Lord they claim to follow. Trans people may not be the way God intended but they are also not a mistake. Imperfections were introduced into this world when Adam & Eve rebelled. These Trans people are not sinners. They are imperfect as are we all. Sins are another matter entirely. We don't choose how we are born, but we do choose to sin. Mormons will never understand so Trans folks should probably look for another place to worship.
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Amy Varela
If the god of monotheism exists, and created everything, and is perfect, and all-powerful, and doesn't want people to be in the LGBT community, why does he allow it? And while I'm asking, why does he allow children to be harmed by anyone in any way? Born with cancer, or into extreme poverty, often living in unimaginable agony for a few hours or days then dying? Why would a morally superior being allow that?
Maybe this god, this genocidal, infanticidal, misogynistic, bigoted monster doesn't exist except in the minds of the easily manipulated and gullible.
Have a nice day.
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James Grainger
If your church does not accept you, then leave that church and start one of your own
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Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey
More proof that religion is MAN made and just garbage.
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Rebecca L Tice
It seems to me, and I'm just an old woman, the handbook changes do more to damage the chance of a transexual joining the Morman meetings, then to make the transexual feel welcome.
I was raised Baptist. I've visited other denominational and non-denominational churches. At each of those I was treated as a welcome guest. But when I ventured into a meeting of the LDS church, [Mormon], at the request of one of their members, I was made to feel very, well, extremely actually, unwelcome.
I read the Book of Mormon. I've read the Bible. There were transexuals in the Bible. In the Book of Esther castrated men stayed with the women in waiting. It was convenient, the two didn't want anything to do with one another sexually but the friendship was necessary. Women had to wait a year before meeting the king. The monarchy didn't want any bastard babies taking the throne.
I didn't see any in the Book of Mormon, that I can recall.
I have a friend. He/she/he is a brother/sister/brother in Christ. I met this friend as a female. We served on the same HOA Board. My friend invited me to her church. It met in the community building. There were lots of Christians and lots of children.
Some time later my friend confided in me that she was a he... who changed to a she... but now wanted to go back to he [sans equipment]. My friend is a Christian.
It's not important.
If the Mormons won't welcome someone seeking the company of fellow Christians.... the Baptists or the Methodists or the Church of whoever saint they happen to like.... will.
It's not up to us... as children of God... to choose.
And lets remember.... Jesus loves the little children... and He watches over them.
If we shun the transexuals.... will we start shunning hillbillies again?
Are the Mormons considering asking the LBGTQ to join the church for the Tithe????
Becky
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David Michael Bolden
Rebecca, the eunuchs in the Bible were not castrated because they considered themselves "trans". This action was done to prevent these straight men from from fathering children with the queen or the King's harem. (This was also not a Jewish practice, but a Roman and Pagan one). Moreover, this was NOT a teaching from God, but rather a decision made by men in violation of God's laws. It's also unclear whether Jesus was referring to castrated eunuchs or celibate men in Matthew 19:10, but we do know that Jesus was ultimately forgiving of all would repent and sin no more.
To be clear, the LDS church is not expelling "trans" people from their buildings or shunning them - but continues to encourage them to repent and eventually be baptized and receive all the same blessings as everyone else.
And yes, it IS up to us to obey God's commandments and baptize ONLY those who are willing to be similarly obedient. You would not expect any church to accept anyone into their fold who begins their journey admitting that they are NOT willing to follow the teachings of that church!
As for tithing - anyone (member or not) can pay tithing to the LDS church. This has nothing to do with eligibility for baptism or other responsibilities in the church, but is a reflection of your personal understanding of the blessings that come from tithing. We do not tithe to express support for an organization or its policies, but rather our devotion to God and His commandment to tithe.
Pragmatically, it's worth noting that virtually all Christian denominations are struggling to keep members - while the LDS church remains the only Christian sect still growing; profoundly.
The great question here is whether 'transgender' is a sin, and the overwhelming consensus is "YES". If you struggle with this simple truth then the problem is not the LDS church.
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
When you say we are all GODs' children... Then that's exactly what it means. How can one profess to love a spirit that is love, be covered by the Holy Spirit and Love Jesus who died for everyone... Then say oh but no you can't do this around us? Or we are going to disrespect the person GOD says love. There's no way around saying love goes a longer way than hate. But Hate is deep seeded and rooting. These times show how backward we are headed. My heart is heavy for the ones.. you as the people who are causing hate and pain to. How can we expect generations to break curses of this behavior if it continues to be a war of respect and disrespect? I love people. I don't always like what they do.. but whether they identify as straight, trans or other.. it wouldn't stop me from having prayer, calling them by the name or gender they give or going to a show which, in my opinion has nothing to do with any church organization. A soul... is the point.
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ServantOfJudgement
Because not everyone is a child of God. Some are the child of Satan. So says Jesus.
If you doubt me, just as a Satanist if he's a child of God.
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
Yes... They are. Saying no would go against "Love everyone". Now.. Satan isn't exactly an enemy of God if he comes in when God is provoked.. they talk and he tells
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ServantOfJudgement
Evon, If you're pulling your opinion from the Bible check the gospel of John for clarification.
If you're pulling your opinion from yourself then it's your opinion with nothing to back it.
Jesus definitely identifies some of as a child of God and some of us as a child of the devil with zero wiggle room.
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ServantOfJudgement
I'm waiting for the strict church rules for drunkards, prostitutes and junkies along with the outrage that follows.
According to the Bible, Mormonism is a cult that pulls some its standards from the original standard. The specific standard on topic, transvestites and all of their flavors is forbidden and considered to be sinful by God.
Churches should and do welcome drunkards into the building. They don't give them positions of authority and I doubt church membership. A drunkard is a freewheeling sinner. We're all sinners. Some try to stop the practice as Jesus commands and some say what they're doing is not a sin at all, even though the bible says it is.
Fear not, this toe in the door will eventually become that which sinful man desires, that is the Mormon's full acceptance and encouragement of the things God says no to.
Christians beware of churches that embrace and encourage sin.
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
I have a question? You do know TRANS is not the word you described right... This is a gender not clothing. Transsexual. And please give me those verses. I need to refresh... I don't mind being wrong.
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ServantOfJudgement
Evon,
Yes I know that a trans person does not believe they're wearing clothing of the opposite sex. They believe they're wearing the appropriate attire for themselves. I believe they're entitled to do as they please in this regard.
If I see a dude in a dress, sir, bro, dude or man still gets lobbed out as his pronouns from my mouth. Not as offense but as a reflex.
Since you asked(I don't normally quote the bible), Deuteronomy 22:5 reads: A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.
I'm not telling anyone what to do or believe. I'm just saying what the bible says. If a person chooses to be a Christian then these things should apply to them depending on what the law or principal is getting at. If they chose not to be Christian then any rules or principles can be ignored or abandoned at their leisure. Christians are not supposed to hold non Christians to biblical standards.
In the case of a trans person or anyone joining a church, they should expect the church call anti bible behavior out accordingly. Lol, if they did they'd lose 90 percent of their partitioners including the preacher!
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Henry Gordon. Weed
First off I know God created everyone the sex he intended them to be. I do not believe we have the right to change who we are sexualy.As far as same sex marriages the Bible at least my Christian bible makes it clear how we all should stand as christians,and I would never preside over a same sex marriage no matter what man's law said.I go along with the bi laws set down by the lds. My opinion goes even farther but until asked I will keep it to myself. Thank you for being given the platform to express my opinion and God bless us all
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Amy Varela
You made a positive claim about your god. Please provide evidence for your claim.
Thanks.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
The Christian church doesn't want the LBGTQ community, to be part of their community. Why would the LBGTQ crowd want to be there?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Probably because they want salvation too and to be allowed to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Always these bastions of ethics and morality. Politically inclined, all the worse.
Power, control, misogyny, and money. Brutal, abusive. Always the same game, and more the shame.
Eventually falling from their own sky, gnashing, rending, biting, clawing, burning... and whatever the hell else they had in store for the "nots" they will hit the ground.
There won't be any horns blowing either.
Just a dull "THUD" and then something like "SPLAT!"
Such a waste....
Peace, Out... tk
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
Had to correct spelling So one comment hasn't deleted. Apologies
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Joseph Paul Carlino
Spiritually knows no gender. This is a policy of fear. This policy separates people into us and them, good and bad. God does not separate. Rather God is all inclusive. Love thy neighbor as thy self. Not love thy neighbor if they are different from me.
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ServantOfJudgement
You forgot to quote the part where men aren't supposed to pretend to be women.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
who says they're pretending, besides you?
who made you judge and jury? seems as if you're taking on the mantle of god and pronouncing judgements from on high. you know that's wrong and blasphemous, right? of course you do and yet here you are, blaspheming by pretending to be god. shame on you
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Rev. Michelle Love
I agree that this policy may have been made in fear, but I think that a lot of people have good reason. These rules seem to want to protect children from people who are confused about their sexuality in situations that they cannot be present to protect them in.
Imagine being a young recruit just getting to basic training and learning that you will need to shower in front of 59 other men. Knowing that over 2.5% of men in the United States identify as being a member of the LGBTQ+ community, that means there is a chance that there is at least one young man in your group that is sexually attracted to other men. Armed with this knowledge, would you still feel comfortable bathing in front of people you did not know intimately?
I think that the Mormon church wrote this new handbook to both protect themselves and their members from the possibility of abuse. Knowing that churches need to purchase liability insurance because of issues such as this, it seems to be a smart move on their end. Only 0.6% of the U.S. population identifies as being transgender, which equates to possibility of approximately 390 people out of a membership of over 6.5 million people in the United States being affected by this change and this is out of about 31,490 congregations and wards in this country.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
just stop. people who are or think they are trans are not going to church to assault others. a man who is trans and now a woman does not go looking in the hopes of getting some snu snu. (well no more than any straight person goes looking for it, man or woman)
as for the boot camp shower, your scenario seems oddly specific but okay, so what if there's a gay man in the group? do you really think that one guy is going to hit on someone in an open shower with 59 ostensibly straight men?
you just promote the same fears and nonsense only clothed in what you think is a calm and reasoned approach.
and it 'seems' that whenever someone is discovered to have assaulted or groomed a child it's a straight, usually married and white male. like, you know, figures of authority, priests, etc. so maybe stop fearmongering under the guise of logic, you are mistaken and only feed into the narrative that gays and trans are sexual deviants and this ONLY because you people read it in the bibble. if gay is wrong according to the bibble, so is meat and milk, shellfish, garments of two different materials, etc. you don't get to cherry pick the fables in the bibble that suite your purpose and ignore those that conflict with your own personal desires.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Rev Dr Father JJ,
That scenario is oddly specific because it happened to me. I was a 19 year old girl when I enlisted into the military and had no idea I would not be afforded any privacy when bathing during basic training. And while no one hit on anyone in the showers, there were some women who spent more time in them than they needed to.
In addition, I had had to urinate in front of two very masculine presenting women while getting drug tested, one of which crouched in the bathroom stall to watch the urine void from my bladder directly in a matter that made my genitalia visible to her.
It is you who is projecting that transgender people are only men and that men are the only people that groom or molest children.
By the way, where in the Bible are transgender people even mentioned? I know there are references to eunuchs, but that is not the same and they were not labeled as sexual deviants.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
when i was in boot camp we had group shower and toilets with no doors. urine samples were collected in front of medical personnel.
if you think some women were spending more time in the shower than necessary that means you were paying more attention to them than was necessary. see how that works...both ways.
so based on your experience in the service you have concluded what....women's showers are a great place to meet women?
eeesh...
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Rev. Michelle Love
Rev Dr Father JJ,
I don't know what branch you served in but the one I did actually randomly appointed airmen from a squadron to serve as observers for random drug testing as recently as 2012. These people would sometimes end up observing their own coworkers which is what happened to me. In basic training we also had toilets with no doors and urinals near the shower area.
It is not hard to notice seeing the same person in the same spot walking in and walking out depending on their location. I was painfully shy at the time and did not want to look at anyone as I did not want them to look at me.
And no, public showers are not a great place to meet anyone. However, it would be a good place for someone who appreciates the same sex to view what can be considered the equivalent of free pornography in a location where nude magazines are prohibited and saltpeter is placed in our water in order to suppress our libidos.
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Jack T Schoeneman
i believe that any human being should be able to attend any religious institution no matter how they present themselves
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Rev. Rory
Founder Smith claimed to have had a vision in which God and Jesus Christ appeared to him in a wooded grove near his family's farm. They told him to join no existing churches and that God would restore the church Jesus Christ originally organized. Smith didn't care for the rules of other churches apparently so he decided to start his own and then had 40 wives. I'm not sure when Jesus promoted that idea, but if Smith thought he heard it and Smith was inspired and people want to follow it, good for them. People that are not welcome will eventually leave as they will never be accepted, but there are churches that will accept them. Most religions have rules to kick out the people they don't like.
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Lisbeth Kieran Bushey
This is a hateful policy that will only result in a further loss of membership.
That’s the real reason why membership in churches is declining: because they are making people unwelcome, acting out of fear of the unknown, and not following the teachings of Christ.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
seems to me if a person has enough sense to know that they are not the sex they were born as and want to change it, then they should have enough sense to know that religion is never going to be a helpful part of that transition.
religion is for people who don't question their life, who prefer faith to education, mysticism to science, willful ignorance to curiosity. for any trans person who is unwelcome in a church or religion, shed that as you shed your former self. you're better than that
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Amy Varela
Evidence suggests that Joseph Smith was a conman, and no evidence exists that any gods/goddesses actually exist. I believe in the earth because there is evidence that the earth exists and that life comes from the earth.
Have a nice day.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Amy,
Most of the people who are considered gods or goddesses are real people who have been immortalized via mythology. Authors have changed the names to protect the innocent and their actions have been exaggerated to make them look larger than life.
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Stacey Owens
In this world it shouldn't matter if your LGTBQ, male or female. If your body comes into this world as a human, this is what you are in the world. Now those who are already in the world living, things get complicated in this world. It depends on the environment that were born into, is the question.
If were born, the environment will dictate what the child will become as a man or woman. Educated, successful, strong, weak minded, good, or evil. In the world where a person can Identify what they are based on the condition of the surrounding. This is when we choose what a person will be: (man or woman). If the environment is delusional, mixed in chaos, and disturbing no one know what a person will turn out to become, no matter what a person is taught. Everyone is conditioned differently.
The question is, the choices they make and how will people react, that the question.
God didn't create us to judge anybody. He only gave men and women the will to judge themselves. The thing is, people took it out of context. The proof, look at the world in the condition it's in now. The point is, in the eyes sight of God it doesn't matter,, The only thing that matters to Him what is written in the book of life. If what a person is not written, its not up to a pastor, teacher, preacher, or evangelical to write them in the book of life. We need to trust Gods will be done.
A Mormon, Baptise, Catholics, Methodist or Pentecostal can't write them in the book of life because God must identify Himself in them. If God see's they choose to be represented as LGBTQ, thats what they are, because they choose what they are in the world. Just like a salesmen, realiter, clerk, policemen, lawyers, actors, singer and so forth and so on. God created man/woman in His image after His likeness. The problem is we don't believe. The proof that this is true; can anyone here truely say that they believe in their parents. Have you truly listened to them? Maybe or Maybe not.
The Mormon religion isn't God and He isn't the religion. Why do I say this, God is not religion because ther is no other god beside Him. So, if the Mormons don't want LGBTQ in their religion, they have that choice not to have them join: God not in it leave God out of it. Mormons and LGBTQ has the world to handle this issue. As for me, I am giong to worship the ONE, Yod-He-Vau-He and Yod-He-Vau-He- shine. whom He has sent. To God be the glory.
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Doctor Loyal
The Mormon Church is correct. They never have shown anything but restraint. The Trans persons are denying the infallible word of Mormon Holy Scripture, intensely acting out their Gender Illusions, and overall with their gender disfunctionality and denial are contradicting the basic tenets of the Mormon Faith. It is like announcing at the neighborhood mosque that Mohammed lied about Allah and is both reprehensible and disrespectful. Why be inclusive toward a person that denies and disrespects the basic tenets of one's Faith.
You may feel free to disagree, but if one feels that it is a holy requirement to smear themselves with peanut butter and loudly chant obscene limericks, who am I to deny the application of peanut butter to my body and then demand that I be allowed to ignore that basic act while being included in their religious activities ??? That isn't inclusive, that is a direct insult !!!
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Rev. BH
Doc, you were doing okay up until your second paragraph, especially the revealing "obscene limericks" part. And the word "infallible" relating to the Moroni given and taken, golden tablets is kind of stretching it. (Infallible relating to anything is problematic) Glad god didn't take back the bible.
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Rev. BH
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Jimmy Moon
The LDS is a cult. They should welcome all abominations with open arms.
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Lionheart
In reality, the cult of Mormonism is no different than every other religion circumnavigating our globe. It’s just that some of the biggest cults have more indoctrinated members insisting they are not a cult because of their size. Christianity being one of them.
🦁❤️
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Rebecca L Tice
When I was asked to attend the Mormon meeting.... I hadn't been to church for a long time. I went out and bought a new outfit. It was in the middle of August... and it was hot... so I bought a dress appropriate for the weather.
The dress had no sleeves... it had 2" lace straps. FOR THAT REASON, I was made unwelcome.
I was inappropriate... I might as well have served them all coffee laced with brandy!
No... they are NOT all inclusive... and I am finding it hard they would accept a proud gay man displaying the colors of the rainbow in their "cult".
It's not that they don't want the gay men persuading the young boys to join them.... It's because they don't want the young Christians having to deal with the question in the first place.
IMHO... it's not about keeping the cult free from perverts as you seem to say... it's about keeping the meat out of the diet of the young Christian until they are ready to cut it.
Didn't God tell the Israelites not to mess with the Canaanites because they would be distracted by the devoted things? https://forums.somd.com/threads/one-mans-selfishness.404124/
Sorry about that.... IMHO your are mistaken.
Becky
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Ellen B. Wentzel
That is what I think, a true cult. There are so many documents that have been rewritten, fakes, the church does not know what is true and what is not. The only reason they finally accepted black people into their church is that they were threatened by having their non-profit status taken away.
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Nicholas J Page
The Mormons ha leave your opinions to your selves they try to force you to join their church.No way should anyone be treated like that.Churches and religion is a free joice.
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Mrknowitall
All Christian churches need to adopt every rule the mormons have.....Lets make God happy !!
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David Michael Bolden
There is a precedent for this - When Moses left the people to receive God's commandments, they began to worship a golden calf. This was a direct violation of God's law and the consequence was severe. Only the Levites, who refused to worship the idol, were permitted to hold priesthood thereafter. The pattern is clear: those who refuse to follow God's commandments face consequences. Moreover, the mercy of God also provided a path forward on condition of covenant obedience. - To be clear, transgenderism is the change. Neither God nor the church has changed. It is the people who have created a practice which is in conflict with the will of our creator and we must repent or face consequences. The LDS church does not "hate" people who have chosen this path, and continues to offer a path forward if they turn their away from their sins and repent.
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Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey
LOL, what they are doing is the very definition of hate and bigotry. Pick up a science book STOP "consulting" a bronze age book written by sheepherders high on mushrooms.
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Tom Herman
Of course it is trying to block Transgender people from participating. Why is that difficult to understand? Churches all have their own set of rules. They are governed by people who are products of the times. It's been that way since recorded history. As with any institution, people make the rules and people can change the rules. The key to change is being able to survive and navigate within the institution while effecting change. The evolution of thought and implementing new ideas has always been a process. Psychology teaches us there is a resistance to change. I guess some are better at it than others.
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Tom Herman
Of course it is trying to block Transgender people from participating. Why is that difficult to understand? Churches all have their own set of rules. They are governed by people who are products of the times. It's been that way since recorded history. As with any institution, people make the rules and people can change the rules. The key to change is being able to survive and navigate within the institution while effecting change. The evolution of thought and implementing new ideas has always been a process. Psychology teaches us there is a resistance to change. I guess some are better at it than others.
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Tom Herman
Of course it is trying to block Transgender people from participating. Why is that difficult to understand? Churches all have their own set of rules. They are governed by people who are products of the times. It's been that way since recorded history. As with any institution, people make the rules and people can change the rules. The key to change is being able to survive and navigate within the institution while effecting change. The evolution of thought and implementing new ideas has always been a process. Psychology teaches us there is a resistance to change. I guess some are better at it than others.
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Tom Herman
Of course it is trying to block Transgender people from participating. Why is that difficult to understand? Churches all have their own set of rules. They are governed by people who are products of the times. It's been that way since recorded history. As with any institution, people make the rules and people can change the rules. The key to change is being able to survive and navigate within the institution while effecting change. The evolution of thought and implementing new ideas has always been a process. Psychology teaches us there is a resistance to change. I guess some are better at it than others.
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Carol J VanderMiller
Transitioning only means that one wishes to identify as the opposite of what they were born with relative to dna assignment. The dna does not change when one decides to go either through the physical or mental process. References in the Bible & related scriptures are gender specific (meaning dna specific). Each church has its own decision to make based on their interpretation of scriptures & it is man who wants to change it to how they want it to be - therefore, one should find a belief system that fits their individual needs, beliefs, etc. without judging or criticizing anothers' beliefs because they do not want others to judge them. Judge not Lest ye be judged.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Seeing that these are guidelines and not an outright ban, I would say that you can be both transgender and Mormon at the same time. However, it will not be easy and their church seems to want to be transparent about that fact. I think that this guidebook is their way of letting transgender members know what their limitations will be in the future so they can decide if they want to go through with the process or consider finding another faith that is more accepting of their decision to genetically modify themselves into a body that they feel more comfortable living in.
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Karen LaBerdia
Rev Michelle Love, I followed you up until you indicated that human beings can genetically modify themselves. Not yet. It is not even possible to modify the sex of a zygote in utero, though it might be possible in some species, in the future, if not already. I view genetics similar to a bar code. The code tells the proteins, amino acids, positive and negatives how to knit. Mutations of course occur. What you have is the proverbial box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get. Once you start fooling around with hormones, it's anybody's guess whether you will be successful, or a medical misadventure. Not that I'm saying you are; that is usually a diagnosis for the coroner. ---- I met my first Mormon children around 1970, at Zion National Park. They were sitting in the bed of a pick up truck (children rode there back then,) debating whether of not the (Mormon) Church allowed soda. The consensus of the children was that it did not. I was surprised that in their very youth they understood the concept of purity and impurity! When the original copies of the old text were copied, scribes were required to be bathed before even writing the name of God. Others, such as Sampson, took vows not to drink beer or wine, and not to cut their hair. "Define purity!" Well, I cannot. But the church can. ----But I get your point; find like minded. Grandma always told me, "Don't go where you are not invited, and don't stay where you are not wanted." Why, Grandma, I said, WHY? It took me 60 years and the events leading to an invasion by a super power to see that coming uninvited and staying unwanted is like a high maintenance relationship; it can cost too much.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Karen,
What I meant by genetic modification was the introduction of hormones into one's system with the intent to either lower a woman's voice or to grow breast tissue on a man. I am not a scientist nor and I am expert on transgender people. I have just seen people who went through the process and know that it entails a lot more than just plastic surgery and a new wardrobe.
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Amy Varela
The entire point of the LDS Church is baptizing people. If trans folk cannot be baptized, they cannot be members of the LDS Church.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Amy,
The ban that the LDS church has imposed on baptizing transgender people is a new one and not based on information from either the Bible or the Book of Mormon because transgenderism is a newer construct. It is effectively the church's way of forcing these people out of the religion by denying them the ability to absolve themselves of sin through this symbolic practice.
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Carl Anthony Glenn
One only has to read these books, chapters and verses in the Bible to understand what Lord, our God has to say on the subject of sexual immorality. Leviticus 18:22, 20:23/ Romans 1:26-28/ 1st Corinthians 6:9-10/ 1st Timothy 1:8-11/ Mark 10:6-9/ 1st Kings 15:12/ James 4:12/ Jude 1:7/ Genisis 2:24/ 1st Corinthians 7:2/ 2nd Corinthians 5:17.
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Amy Varela
Do you have any evidence that the god you mentioned actually exists?
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Rev. Michelle Love
Amy,
The purpose of religion is having faith in things you cannot prove.
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Amy Varela
There are those who make positive claims about their version of god. The person making the claim has the burden of proof. If it's only faith, people need to start saying "I think ~insert some ridiculous claim about religion~..." instead of "I know...".
I highly doubt any of the hundreds of gods that have been worshiped by billions of people for thousands of years actually exist, but I don't know for sure. This is why I ask for the evidence.
If faith were a reliable pathway to the truth, every god would be true.
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Rev. Michelle Love
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Rev. Michelle Love
Amy,
You are entitled to believe or disbelieve in anything that you want. However, churches are built for believers, which leads me to wonder why you are here in the first place?
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Amy Varela
Michelle, First of all, this isn't a church. Secondly, atheists and pagans have as much right to have a ritual to celebrate their marriage, baby naming, funeral, or other rite of passage as believers do. I am happy to provide that for them. Thirdly, who says I'm not a believer? Just because I do not believe in a god does not mean I believe in nothing. I believe in the Earth; I believe that life comes from the Earth and that we return to the Earth when we die. There is plenty of evidence to substantiate my belief in the Earth.
I ask for evidence of the god claims. Nobody has ever produced any. That doesn't mean the gods don't exist, but it does mean there's no good reason to believe in them.
Have a nice day!
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Rev. Michelle Love
Amy,
Not sure if you ever noticed the header of this blog, but it belongs to the Universal Life Church.
No one said that pagans and atheists were not allowed to celebrate rites of passage. However, I would not lump pagans in with atheists because the term pagan literally means that they believe in more than one god or goddess.
If you want evidence of proof of the existence of a higher power, then you need to go within. Find a text that you can relate to and really study it. I used a devotional and read one page every day. I started a journal and took notes of my observations of the daily verse that I would read about. I also meditated on the passage to think about what it meant to me and compared my thinking to that which was written as an explanation in the devotional. I can tell you that miraculous things started happening after I started studying my Bible directly.
Once again, you have come to the wrong place if you are looking for hard proof of the existence of God. The church is a faith-based institution which means their followers already believe in the existence of a high power without being given proof. Maybe you should consider creating a Reddit group where you will be able to sample a larger population of people who might be willing to explain to you how and when they found their own proof that God exists.
Good luck on your journey.
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Amy Varela
Michelle, If you are the leader/owner/CEO of the Universal Life Church, please make it known on your website that non-believers are not welcome, because it's not evident. When I really read the bible, and compared my thinking to what it actually said versus reality, I learned that very little in that book is based in reality. Places and some people are based in fact, but the bulk of the important stories are not. Starting at the very beginning in Genesis, it's a collection of myths and fairy tales. Adam and Eve, the flood, the Exodus from Egypt, none of those are true. We are not all descended from two people; there is no evidence anywhere of a global flood, nor is there any evidence of a mass exodus from Egypt. You said at the end there that people "found their own proof that God exists." If everyone's "proof" is not the same, it's not proof. If a god commanded that everyone must believe or be damned for eternity, but refused to give each person the same proof of it's existence, the god is not good. In general, I am not here looking for proof of the existence of a god. I do, however, ask for it when someone makes a positive god claim. If one of them does exist, I want to know. ALso, pagan was the Roman word for heathen, and heathen is the word that described people who lived 'on the heath', basically farmers, the people whose lives depended upon the earth, understanding the seasons, understanding the life-cycles of crops, etc. Before they saw the patterns of the seasons, they made up stories of the lord and lady of nature, being born in early February (Imbolc), becoming sexually mature in late spring (Beltane), being harvested in late summer (Lughnassadh), and being put to rest to the winter (Samhain). Many of their gods came from those stories. Then the bible believers forced their conversion to christianity or killed them. So much for the love of Jesus, right? I believe that the guy about whom the Jesus stories were written would be appalled at the way his teachings were polluted by Paul.
Have a nice day.
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Rev. Michelle Love
Amy,
I am not the owner, leader or CEO of Universal Life Church. Also, if you look at the symbols that are posted at the bottom of this website, you will see that there are 13 different religions being represented in this group.
I agree that all religions are based on mythology, which is just a fictionalized account of true stories. However, it is the intense examination of these stories that can lead you to the answer that you seek, regardless of what mythology you choose to study.
In regards to Paul polluting the teachings of Jesus, I would not blame him as Philemon 1:1 clearly states that he was "a prisoner of Christ Jesus".
Have a blessed day.
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Stacey Owens
Amy, to experience faith in the one true God, He has to give you the faith to respond to Him. As it is written, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God speaks in the spirit and the word of God touchs your soul to respond to Him.
Man can't porduce this kind of faith because the faith of man is only effective by what he can see in the flesh. Like having faith in someone, or something that we can see. By this faith we hope for it. This is called carnal faith. This kind of faith cause people to work for it. Yet the faith that is given by God is His grace. It is hope that is not seen because it is a spiritual experience. You are caused by God to act on it in hope, because you experieced Gods quickening power. Your reaction will be Gods faith in you to repond in the substance of your hope in what you experienced. This will be proof that God is real. Like it says in the sciptures, "the letter kill but the spirit give life. The life is the act of you responding to hope in your experience with God. All religions have nothing to do with your experience with God. The reason why, its personal, because its the love of God being shed abroad by the Holy Spirit.
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Stephen Smith
No but you can be a abomination on to the lord for a man shall not wear women’s garments and a woman shall not wear men’s garments
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Michael Joseph Cheney
It's their church and their religion. If you don't follow your own religious texts then you're just making it up as you go along and obviously have no respect for it our your God. Christ certainly would not recognize today's christians. Its all been downhill since they tacked Yahweh and the torah onto what Paul taught. That's one of the reasons the religion has so many difficulties. Is it is not internally consistent because it is two different gods, two different religions packaged as one. My question is, why would a person whose actions mean that they are abhorrent to a certain religion want to be a part of that religion? Rather than corrupting that religion, just roll your own. The problem I have with all these corruptors is they don't want to be accepted, they want to make sure that everybody else is no longer accepted. If you don't behave and do and believe exactly as they say, then you get anti- tacked on to the front of some descriptor or phob as a suffix. Their purpose is to corrupt, and the proof is in the pudding. You shall know then by their fruit. In my opinion, anybody who goes into a church and tells them that they have to go against their doctrine, that person a bad apple.
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Albert Yeung
Religious or Mormom concern more about polygamy, homosexual, now gender problem. Once, they rescue everyone, sometimes, they choose pep[le. Thats why Christian church gets more and more. They want decide right or wrong.
My opinion is you can form one by yourself, set your own rules. See how many people will join you even block by your selfish church. I believe the church you like is not too bad.
Mormom so far is 'Don't ask what can the church do for you, but ask what you can do for the church, - pay 1/10 income and volunteer clean the church is required. Nothing is required do for you. Those marriage party, housing help, job help is (talking only ) Really, Jenus! Many get nothing, cheat by the church for many years. Actually, same for many church. Thats why many want to own a church- free money and woman, volunteer do everything for you and cheat will do something for you. I try to help Mormom fix but not much improved.
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Kenneth Kling
I'm "OK" with the LDS and their practices and have a few friends who are members since birth. I think it impossible to be a follower and not know what the stringent rules are and have always been. I'm often mused by people wanting a church, sect, faith, following etc. to change/modify their teachings and practices to fit a very limited number of folks who are determined to impress their alternative lifestyle upon them or "else." I don't know "WWJD" or the wisest thoughts any other Prophet, Leader, Oracle, Lama, ect. ect ect might be and I simply respect whatever rules and practices laid down for the congregants to follow. If I don't agree with them, I walk. Simple as that.
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Haydee Ewing
Completely agree with you. That is what religion is . A set of rules, values and beliefs . The LDS values marriage between female and male, teaches that your body is your temple, you are born with a divine nature as a daughter or son of God. This is part of the religion and they cannot preach these things and have the member actions and beliefs be different ina teaching position or if they do not live those core values and beliefs .
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Theresa C. Marquess
I have to respect the Mormon Church for staying true to their convictions and not bending to today's ideas the way so many others have.
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Minister for the Kingdom
I will be posting my comment in a few days. My hope is that all will consider this post and search the scriptures. Be at peace. Please show love to everyone. until then, "I love you all!"
Minister Ralph Krebbs Minister for the Kingdom
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Minister for the Kingdom
Not at this time.
Minister for the kingdom of
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Kilted Minister
Finally, the Mormon cult got something right!
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James Tom Bailey
Just be patient, the policy will change again the in the near future. I say this tongue in cheek, but keep in mind that this is a religion, the religion has a right to practice their beliefs in ANY manner that does not put others in harm's way. But in reality, just be patient, as they are assailed by the various groups, they will wind up in court and complete capitulation will take place.
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Vincent Paul Therrien
Oh (literally) for Heaven's sake, Mormon folks! In no world do you welcome trans folks. To say one is welcome with a laundry list of exclusions is very sad. Kind of like the Catholic, most Pentecostal, and most Evangelical churches: LGBTQIA folks are welcome BUT they can't marry, take communion, etc. etc. etc. etc. Just be blunt: No queer folks allowed. Much more honest.
It’s the same for many denominations, not just Mormonism. People are afraid of things they don’t understand, and body dysmorphia is not commonly understood. It’s a shame. Whether or not you agree with trans people is irrelevant. They are people and deserve to be part of a religious community and not leave their preferred religion because of that religion’s morality…
Sorry but no. If you are a part or a member of a religion then you have agreed to abide by its teachings. You dont get a choice to join and then find out you dont like it and then demand the religion now has to kowtow to you and your beliefs. Remember you joined them they didnt join you
Daniel, When I was in seminary, there was a woman pursuing the priesthood in an Episcopal diocese that did not at that time ordain women, and I asked her why she didn't either move to a diocese that would accept her or change denominations. Her response was that it was much easier to effect change from within than from the outside. This was a single diocese surrounded by others that had no problem ordaining women, so she did have an uphill battle, but not one that was insurmountable. I agree with you on this particular point, but this like this woman who wanted to serve where she was at the church she grew up in, most people will not join a church or denomination knowing they will not be accepted and expect the church to change for them. While I believe that the directive of the Mormon Church is to get the trans people to change their minds (like that is possible), it is much more likely to drive many if not most of them away.
It is their choice to change or walk away changing the laws of God is not a choice And comparing a woman wanting to serve God to Trans trying to change the Laws of God leaves me to believe you need to pray and research into the word of God
What you are referring to is not a law of god. It is a law/directive/teaching of one particular religion.
Do you have any evidence of the actual existence of the god you mentioned?
I understand what you’re expression means here. ‘Shame’ is a low frequency and is not inclusive, just as the actions of the Mormon Church utilize here for ‘separation’ What would happen if no one was wrong here? What if all perceptions are just that: perceptions. Perceptions may be seen as part of our experiences to learn, a in effect to grow. Might these perceptions be utilized to create compassion and inclusiveness, of a connection with all? Perhaps to act as a tool of an awareness of greater consciousness to move up, move forward without separation on our human evolution of ascension? What we hold in darkness, brings us to this same darkness. Bless us all.💜
No sadly. The “perception” of the LDS church here is non-negotiable for them. All of the LDS leaders I have spoken with on this issue state what the church has always stated: binary gender is a pivotal concept of the LDS restored gospel, it is foundational. Informed by that “perspective”, gender dysmorphia is at best a tragic mental illness, acting upon this horrible disease of the mind via surgery or ‘crossdressing’ or entering the ‘wrong’ bathroom is a sinful rebellion of “God’s plan for mankind” and morally degenerate. The legal team of the church won’t allow such messaging to enter public announcements but I have heard this and worse in church ward meetings frequently. They do not make such statements in private nor public regarding registered sex offenders working in church callings involving children, however. That, also, I have witnessed in person numerous times.
If you don't understand that being Homosexual leads to being attacked by devil spirits and to be attached to devil spirits than I can't help you.