Can You Be Fired for Having Sex? Women Face Pregnancy Discrimination at Work

Richard Albert Heyse

Would a man be fired for getting a woman pregnant? This is just sexual discrimination and blinkered vision. With eyes open the bosses should see the act of making love is beautiful and nature's miracle of creating a child a wonderful thing

Minister John Ruland

we have to learn to seperate earthly things from spiritual things and what is of this world does not mean anything. we have to teach spiritual things not eathly things like what our bodies do. our mind, body, has nothing to do with spritual things at all. so hire her back and only teach spiritual things. it is like teaching what Jesus did not what he taught. it seems you are teaching what Jesus did and where he went instead of what he taught. teach what he taught love one another and teach salvation not things of this world. Minister John Ruland

Richard Lee Cornell

It is in the handbook.

Rev. Jack Harte, DD, MscD

Don't work for that company. You have the legal right to have sex with whomever you choose. A company should have the option to choose employees who follow its philosophies.

Donna Christ

Shouldn't the man get fired also ,equal time for the " crime"

Donna Christ

Shouldn't the guy get fired for getting the woman pregnant. Equal time for the crime!!!

William Vasiliou

Minister William, I was under the impression that the dark ages and the inquisition were over. This couple, although not legally married have been living together for some time. This should count. If her employer was as evangelical as stated his company should not have hired her in the first place, as it would appear she was living with a man before being hired. I have had first hand experience with religious bigotry and the problems women face. Decades back when my wife was expecting our first son the parents at her school terminated he contract because they did not want their children exposed to an educator in that condition. This despite some parents being in a similar state. It has not stopped since.

Devon LaBelle

Something to consider:

If the employees spiritual and religious beliefs do not require them to abstain from pre-marital sex, would an employer enforcing evangelical principles upon them be in violation of the employees rights to exercise the free rights of their own religion?

If that follows, ruling with the employer would be asserting that the employer’s religion supersedes the individual’s rights. Which seems to be in direct conflict with the individual’s right to exercise their own religion.

I do understand that the law is to prevent government from establishing a National religion or from persecuting individuals based on their religious beliefs. A ruling in favor of the employer (Evangelical in this case) would privilege one religion over another.

Linda Salavarria

I work in financial literacy education. I have students who ask about Dave Ramsey and his philosophies. I will never discuss him again when I speak to students. This case can go under the "religious persecution" category, since the employee's religious affiliation may not have such strict adherence on premarital sex and to fire her can be considered persecuting her based on HIS religious beliefs to the discrimination of hers. She needs a good lawyer!

Michael Allen Smith

Dave Ramsey has a steadfast rule of no pre-marital sex. It’s his company his rules. Pregnant or not she broke the rules. But to show he doesn’t discriminate he also fired his top executive in charge of teen finances. This man was great at his job but he broke the rules and was fired. Rules are rules. Follow them and all is well. Break them and get the consequences. It’s pretty simple. The author needs to refrain from turning this into anything other than it is. She broke a rule she knew about and paid the consequence. I spoke with someone high up in the company and all employees are schooled on the rules during new hire orientation. If she wanted to mess around she should have chosen a different company. Kudos to Ramsey for sticking to his principles. Maybe more of us should follow the example.

David Ciambrone

I hope she wins the law suit.

John P Maher

IGNORANCE IS BLISS, PEA BRAINED EMPLOYERS !

Allen Haas

Laws are only attempts to maintain social order based on what elected officials perceive as standards for acceptable and unacceptable behavior by human beings. In most states fired for cause simply defines the what a person is entitled to by law in terms of unemployment compensation. Been fired twice in my life and no necessity for stating a reason as unemployment compensation was not contested. I don't think any person should be terminated for behavior outside their scope of employment which is not illegal. Certainly legitimate to terminate employment when such activities interfere with the employees performance or its public persona. Sexual activity without a religious sanction or civil legalization of the contract is not sufficient in my opinion to warrant dismissal. Opening Pandora's box like this would allow an employee to be publicly vilified for any action the employer deems 'sinful' - do they keep Holy the Sabbath Day (and what is the Sabbath day?), Do they honor their mother and father? Do they covet their neighbor's spouse or goods? Lie? All considered sinful in the Judaeo Christian beliefs of many people. Other religions have different behavior considered sinful - strict Muslims do not allow the consumption of alcohol. And I object to the classification as 'evangalical' I certainly identify myself as evangelical but I have no book of beliefs which circumscribes that belief. Can't say I've ever met anyone with whom I completely agree on belief and anyone who says they have is deceiving themselves.

Patricia Ann Wileman

If the rules are in writing when they get hired then yes you need to No there is consequences.

She should’ve thought about maybe being married before she got pregnant. I’m not saying I’m judging the person that they’re a really bad person but there is consequences when you know these are the rules and you sign a paper saying you will obey. Otherwise I said I don’t take that job. Go get a job with a company that doesn’t care about ethics or a mature person they hire.

It’s like a gay couple going to a Christian text shop saying you have to make my cake no they don’t. Go to a cake shop that’s Muslim and see what happens. However they never do that they just want to go after Christians. The gay couple could make a choice to go to a cake shop that doesn’t have a Christian ethics and not do anything they want.

But we all have choices and stop this crap. Understand if you have no ethics about your body and you can let your hormones run your life don’t go to work at those places. Or you better take some birth control one of the two.

Patricia Ann Wileman

If the rules are in writing when they get hired then yes you need to No there is consequences.

She should’ve thought about maybe being married before she got pregnant. I’m not saying I’m judging the person that they’re a really bad person but there is consequences when you know these are the rules and you sign a paper saying you will obey. Otherwise I said I don’t take that job. Go get a job with a company that doesn’t care about ethics or a mature person they hire.

It’s like a gay couple going to a Christian text shop saying you have to make my cake no they don’t. Go to a cake shop that’s Muslim and see what happens. However they never do that they just want to go after Christians. The gay couple could make a choice to go to a cake shop that doesn’t have a Christian ethics and not do anything they want.

But we all have choices and stop this crap. Understand if you have no ethics about your body and you can let your hormones run your life don’t go to work at those places. Or you better take some birth control one of the two.

Russell Allen Foszcz

Was just about to post the same as Linda Weeks - “are the men subjected to the same restrictions?” - but you covered it eloquently. Just another example of blatant sexism.

Christopher S Whittle

Why do these evangelicals think they should (with Mark hamill's joker's voice) "rule the world!" It is entirely sickening to read that this happens to women. Ladies adu.

Matthew Mastrogiovanni

See, all this judge not, lest ye be judged and love your neighbor like yourself is all horse fodder. If you're not an upstanding, Christian CIS male, a pedophile priest or The Donald; you're screwed by this religion. Christianity is a hate group and it's time to declare it thus.

JT of the plains

So the end result is that Dave Ramsey's policies are encouraging abortions. Yuck.

Amber Fry

Absolutely not. As long as they are able to do the job and doesn't reflect badly over all to the company then it shouldn't matter. A person's private life is not the concern of a boss. Of course everyone has health related issues at some time or another and should be taken into consideration but as long as it's reasonable (and women getting pregnant is reasonable) then it shouldn't be a deal breaker. It isn't like there is no such thing as a temp service to cover their shift while they take care of their health.

I find it incredibly strange that any company who requires people to function doesn't seem to give a flying flip when those people actually might, just maybe, need to have their health managed some time or another. Our country (The States) is behind the times in this respect.

Ms. Darcy

I personally believe whether you are married, not married, had pre-maritial sex, or didn't, If YOU are supposed to be teaching your religion, and trying to get people to follow you, shouldn't you show #1 Compassion, and #2 Forgiveness ??? If you cannot show either one of those traits, then I for one would NOT have any desire to follow you no matter WHAT your religion happens to be ...

Kenneth John Bickley

Sounds like a contractual dispute to me. Why did the lady agree to that term of her employment if she did not agree with those values? Presumably she is a mentally competent individual, of adult age and can read. She is not a child and should not be treated as though she were one. She does not need 'protection' from anyone, especially a male chauvinist society and its courts. Freedom of contract should apply to her situation. No one forced her to agree to those terms and every day she reported to work she ratified the terms of her employment. She should have notified her employer if she had changed her views and accordingly could not abide by the terms of the agreement.

If she choses to accept certain beliefs, be they something she thinks is in the 'Bible', 'evangelical' or whatever, that is up to her and no one should be judging her or rescuing her from them because you or I disagree with them. That is called freedom of religion.

It could be that the laws of her State may find the contractual term unenforceable but even then, she would not be entitled to much in damages. At best the employer would be forced to hold her job open but why would she want to go back to work there? Sounds to me as though she will settle and get some money. A normal legal tactic.

James

I think in emotionally charged scenarios, we miss the point. I see why religious companies hold to the standards of the products they sell. They have a certain clientele that they sell to, who expect them to hold to religious values.

If the guy who got a job at the abortion clinic, protested the clinic in private, he would probably keep his job. Protest outside the clinic on days off, would he Keep his job?

That is why the pregnant woman get's fired, she can't hide it. I would think if a man flaunted his conquests, in a religious company, he would be asked to leave.

if this company found out this employee was a devil worshipper, and fired her, would you still fight her cause?

Why does this woman want to work at a company who feels this way about her choices?

Why is it ok to expect a company to change it's moral values, but we are outraged at expecting one person to change their's ?

She chose to work there, knowing the rules. Broke the rules. Got fired for breaking the rules. ​

I think all companies have the right to expect that people fall in line with a clearly written guide of expectations based on their own company morality and not a government enforced one.

I think the free market and our culture at any given time will give rise and fall to these companies without government intervention.

I think the company Is in the right here, based on the information in this article.

The constitutional references aside; with freedom of religion, a church as a business, can legally discriminate against anyone:

Any rule made about sex is inherently discriminatory against women.

Companies have the right to expect employees to live within rules they agree to.

James

I think in emotionally charged scenarios, we miss the point. I see why religious companies hold to the standards of the products they sell. They have a certain clientele that they sell to, who expect them to hold to religious values.

If the guy who got a job at the abortion clinic, protested the clinic in private, he would probably keep his job. Protest outside the clinic on days off, would he Keep his job?

That is why the pregnant woman get's fired, she can't hide it. I would think if a man flaunted his conquests, in a religious company, he would be asked to leave.

if this company found out this employee was a devil worshipper, and fired her, would you still fight her cause?

Why does this woman want to work at a company who feels this way about her choices?

Why is it ok to expect a company to change it's moral values, but we are outraged at expecting one person to change their's ?

She chose to work there, knowing the rules. Broke the rules. Got fired for breaking the rules. ​

I think all companies have the right to expect that people fall in line with a clearly written guide of expectations based on their own company morality and not a government enforced one.

I think the free market and our culture at any given time will give rise and fall to these companies without government intervention.

I think the company Is in the right here, based on the information in this article.

The constitutional references aside; with freedom of religion, a church as a business, can legally discriminate against anyone:

Any rule made about sex is inherently discriminatory against women.

Companies have the right to expect employees to live within rules they agree to.

Angelique D. Chelton

So much for being "prolife". Such harsh treatment absolutely encourages women to terminate their pregnancies so they can keep their livelihoods. What else is new with Evangelical double standards?

Kevin Joseph Kervick

An employer should be able to fire anyone for whatever reason. The problem is that in a multi-cultural/secular society, nobody agrees on the same norms. That is not sustainable.

Grahame Warren

I have been reading the comments with interest - especially from those who say that this is a "Biblical Principle" or similar- and it seems to me that actually the Bible does not have a particular view about this subject because it was not considered to be important - in as much as the act of consummation and sexual union was in itself the act of "Marriage" - so, technically the first time a man and a woman come together in this act they "become one flesh" and therefore are married.

Should this then continue as a relationship then theirs is one of "marriage" - this union then can move on to satisfy the civil requirements by becoming a legal wedding and being blessed by the church - but neither the legal nor the blessing can end their union - only death can do that (or divorce) and at one time, back in the days of the Old Testament, a man married a woman by sleeping with her and divorced her by simply saying "I divorce you" three times with a witness.

So after the first act of sex with one person, all future acts are surely adultery or fornication since they are married at the first act.

It seems to me that throughout time all these rules have been introduced by MEN to control other people both men and women but predominately, women.

Far from wanting to get her job back, this young woman should be eternally grateful that she has escaped the clutches of this misogynistic control freak who does it all under the guise of "loving faith".

Daniel Gray

can you be fired for becoming pregnant, the short answer is no, AS LONG a you are not an "at will" employee meaning that yo can be fired for any reason and at ant time. "at will" employees. What does that mean? It means your employer can fire you for any reason, for no reason, and even for a factually wrong reason (for example, that you were late one day, when you actually weren't). What your employer can't do is fire you for an illegal reason. Illegal reasons include race, gender, disability, and, you guessed it, pregnancy (among other things).

Christian

Reproduction is a constitutional right for all people: Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness.
If that is what they wish to do.

Also, medically, new mothers health is protected by various state & federal laws.

The only exception would be when the type of work may put the mother or baby in serious risk of death or injury. Hopefully, the employer can make reasonable accomodations to protect both lives, light duty, office work instead of scrubbing out toxic chemicals, etc.

Toxic jobs should be handled by remote operators or robotic automation. Why risk human life when we have technology ?

Also, the entire world economy needs new babies. New babies grow into new customers and new employees.
So the more citizens you can grow, the better. If that is your choice to do so...

God Bless you all, and your spouse & children, grand children, and great grandchildren too ! :-)

Kandis Marie Snaith

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I didn't become a minister to win popularity contests so here goes;

First off, I think the question should be did she know that this was an inexcusable act in her work establishment? It's easy to talk about equitable rights whilst talking out of both sides of your mouth, without realizing it. She certainly has her right to have her child, or have sex, according to the Laws of the Government. But what about the l Laws in the Bible? Or HIS right to choose who he wants to work for him and represent his company?

They all three have their place in life. First and foremost, the Bible preaches against fornication. It should not be in question what the Bible preaches, it's plainly written. Second, He should have the right to hold his employees to the standards and rules that he feels are important. Third, she should have the right to choose to have sex, or get pregnant out of wedlock. It's her body her choice.

The true question her is Did she sign a contract to uphold certain morals and behaviors as considered by the company owner? Was she aware that this was a stipulation of her continued employment? Or did she just choose to ignore the rules of her employer? And if she did, why should he have to now change the validity of his morals?

When you talk about women's rights, or men's rights, or Evangelical rights, the question is always WHO'S Rights are more important? We do not know all the facts in this case to have a positive answer one way or the other. We don't know mainly is did she know? Did she agree? when she was employed, and just did it anyway because "It's HER right"

IN MY OPINION, Yes, we all have rights that we should uphold. But that doesn't mean we have the right to impose those rights on others.

Ilmenheru Terikson

And this is why Evangelicals in this nation are now being seen since the events in the Capitol as the U.S. equivalent of the taliban. They are not a part of our society but enemies of it seeking to tear it asunder so they may fill the power vaccuum.

If you are the kind of person that thinks ANTIFA and BLM are bad, but the likes of those churches that preach the gospel of wealth nonsense and seek to enslave humanity are on the side of good, then you are beyond blind to true evil.

Rebecca L Tice

Oh... where have you people been? This has been going on forever. The reason women don't make the same money or hold the same positions as men is all based on the need of a woman to take time off to have a baby.

Women didn't get the vote until 1920.... men have always been in charge while women have been assigned to dealing with the ring around the collars and or the ring around bathtubs.

On top of that... this isn't a new problem.... in the fifties.... women who were stuck in abusive marriages had no recourse. Marriage was controlled by men.

When I was 16 I graduated from high school and went to work at NSA at Fort Meade, MD. The first question I got once training was finished and I was "on the floor".... a man asked me "well little girl... are you going to be able to handle your burn bags".... which I should translate for you.... "can you carry your weight... physically". That same man was a daily terror.... because "women do not belong in the workforce".

When I was a child.... we thought moms stayed home with babies..... when I was a teen.... I was taught.... women can work... but only in certain "non-essential" jobs... because women get pregnant.

Wake up.... this isn't news.... it's just more of the same... up for discussion one more time.... on and on and on.... until we get to New Jerusalem.

This is a link to my Bible Study this morning.... Revelation 21.... No need of a Temple....https://forums.somd.com/threads/no-need-for-a-temple.371028/

Thank you for taking the time to read an old woman's reply.

Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls

There's a time and place for everything.On a job,if caught you can get fired.Sex outside of marriage is fornication,is punishable by a higher authority.All of us should follow the Bible's teachings.Amen.

Gail Dobson

Of course they discriminate against women. It's how the men in power try to remain in power. It's in their book how women are worth less, how women should remain silent - both Old and New Testaments of the bible. Only women can get pregnant so only women have physical evidence of having sex. In that way it's legally discriminatory. Why a woman would want to be a member of such a group, or work for such a group has always been a mystery to me.

Rev. Howard Slayton

When people clock out and go home, the company no longer has control over their activities. It’s none of their business what they write on their Facebook page or anything! Employees are not slaves.

Douglas Robert Spindler

When have Christians ever been moral when it comes to women? The Bible tells us Man was created first and Women was created from one of man's ribs. God got that wrong. We all start life as females. Males are made from women due to male hormones.

Douglas Robert Spindler

When have Christians ever been moral when it comes to women? The Bible tells us Man was created first and Women was created from one of man's ribs. God got that wrong. We all start life as females. Males are made from women due to male hormones.

Elizabeth

So men are feeling the pressure of women taking over so they are turning to creating personal ethics from 8-5. At 5:01 they are on the phone ordering an escort then on the phone telling the wife they have a late meeting. The money they save on health insurance they apply to their pornography, or their young person on the side. They should be worried about their last breath on earth. God is everywhere!!!

Erika Suzannah Avery

This is why many run from religion. I think we are all one, and each religion (providing it does not cause harm to anyone) is simply another aspect of the divine force, the true God. I believe everyone wants compassion, understanding, and acceptance. I see so many hypocrites, preaching moral values then breaking commandments and doing horrible things. I guess if you're a narcissist the rules don't apply to you. Remember "Let he who be without sin cast the first stone?"

Linda weeks

since women are the ones who can exhibit the proof of sex, (getting pregnant), they are the ones who experience the discrimination
I suspect that few of the men in this organization hold to this strict moral code. Usually it is the men who most vocally demand chastity that are caught at 2am in a seedy hotel with a hooker. People have been having sex since the beginning of time. Can we stop being blatantly hypocritical about it. It’s no one else’s business!

Minister Mike

Of course religious rules discriminate against women. What dolt wrote that heading? Seriously, how else will men keep women in line if not religion? Certainly no one believes men can come up with logical and sensible arguments to accomplish what "god" has done to women.

Is premarital sex illegal in that jurisdiction? Even if it is, is it a misdemeanor or felony and does the employment contract specify an employee can be fired for doing it or must they be convicted in court?

Just another rich white dude pretending to be better than everyone else.

Thom

Should we bring our personal morals and ethics into a work place? Should would be the judge and jury in situations like this? I noticed no outcomes were posted because I am sure they were all settled out of court. I employ people and if one of them became pregnant it is not for me to judge them because they may be single. I have friends who have been together for 25 plus years and are not married but they are as true to one another as any married couple I have met. So, who are we to judge?

The key factor is, responsibility. Is the mother going to be a responsible parent? If so, then good for her. Is the father going to be a part of the child's life and is he going to be responsible? I damn well hope so. I would be more inclined to put pressure on the father who is not being responsible than a mother who becomes pregnant out of wedlock. If the mother is going to be responsible, as is the case in 99% of single mother situations, do you as an employer want to be responsible for someone losing their source of income because of what happened?

My wife loves Call the Midwife on PBS (BBC) and it is a favorite of mine as well. In one show a woman who is a teacher becomes pregnant while having an affair with a married colleague. The teacher is fired and it ruins her life. She does a self abortion and it goes very wrong and she is forced to have a full hysterectomy before she was 30. In England she could have bene thrown in prison for doing a self abortion by the way. The school did not care what happened to her because they had to keep up their high standards, it was a public school by the way. Also, the father was not reprimanded in any way. He kept his position and not even mentioned. So, who was right in that situation? According to the show, which is based on a book, woman all over the area were having babies out of wedlock.

Personally, I don't believe it is right for a woman to be fired for having a child out of wedlock but, she should be responsible and do what is right. I do believe the father's should be made to be responsible if they are not. Father's not being responsible, in my opinion, is more of a problem then woman getting pregnant.