Can Muslims and Christians coexist? Is one religion inherently "better" than the other?
Those are the questions some are asking following controversial comments made by Richard Dawkins, the best-selling author of titles such as "The God Delusion."
Dawkins, an outspoken atheist, raised eyebrows with an Easter interview in which he stood up for Christianity – and against the rise of Islam – in the UK.
"If I had to choose between Christianity and Islam, I choose Christianity every single time," said Dawkins. "I mean, it seems to me to be a fundamentally decent religion in a way that, I think, Islam is not."
Reaching a Boiling Point
The comments, understandably, caused an uproar in Muslim communities and civil rights circles.
The sticking point seems to come over cultural values.
Despite his unapologetic atheism, Dawkins describes the UK as “fundamentally a Christian country,” and himself as “a cultural Christian,” lamenting a perceived cultural shift from “hymns and Christmas carols” to “Ramadan lights” hung on Oxford Street.
For Dawkins, the crux of the issue lies in his perceived conservatism of Islam. “The doctrines of Islam – the Hadith and the Quran – is fundamentally hostile to women, hostile to gays,” he says.
“I find that I like to live in a culturally Christian country, although I do not believe a single word of the Christian faith."
Demographic Changes Coming
Both the U.S. and the UK have substantial Christian majorities, but Muslims are one of the fastest growing religious demographics in those countries. Some predict conflict is brewing as a result.
In the United States, roughly 1.3% of the population is Muslim, or about 4.45 million people. That number is estimated to nearly double by 2050.
Across the pond, the Muslim population is growing even faster. In 2011, 4.9% of UK residents identified as Muslim, and by 2021 it had expanded to 6.5%.
Dawkins is hardly alone in his skepticism. Though younger people are more likely to have a positive perception, one survey found that at least 20% of UK residents over the age of 25 hold a negative view of Islam.
Not-So-United States
In the United States, similar tensions are apparent.
Muslim communities contend with everything from petty vandalism to violent hate crimes as a result of their religious beliefs and appearance. Matters have recently been exacerbated by the Israel-Hamas war.
Anti-Islam sentiment is so strong in the United States that Muslims can’t even erect community cemeteries without facing protests and backlash.
Even amongst perceived allies, tensions are growing.
The city of Hamtramck, Michigan has one of the most sizable Muslim populations in the United States per capita, and even boasts an all-Muslim city council.
As a fellow marginalized group, the city’s LGBTQ+ community has long viewed their Muslim neighbors as progressive allies. But last year, they felt blindsided and betrayed when the city council voted unanimously to ban the Pride flag from flying at city hall.
Similarly, a coalition of Muslim parents in Ham Lake, Minnesota staged an “attendance strike” at a local charter school to remove books which feature depictions of LGBTQ+ characters from K-5 classrooms.
Disagreements broke out: are the Muslim parents bigoted for pulling students from class to avoid learning about empathy for LGBTQ+ kids… or is the school being insensitive by not being respectful of the beliefs of Muslim families?
An Uncertain Future
By 2040, it’s estimated that Muslims will be the second-largest religious group in the United States.
And yet, followers of Islam and the wider population in Western countries are often at odds. So what does this mean for the future?
Will these groups find harmony, despite stark differences in religious and cultural values?
Given our belief that we are all children of the same universe, how can we reconcile these comments with our dream for unity?
135 comments
-
Gwendolyn Lord
I am neither a traditional Christian, nor a Muslim. I relate mostly to earth-based practices, and respect for animals. Neo-pagan/early Christian, simple beliefs. I have no problem with ANY religion, which practices their beliefs respectfully, and peacefully.
Gwendolyn Lord
-
James Hage
It is my experience that Christians and muslims beliefs are very similar, with some notable differences. They both believe in the immaculate conception of Jesus, that he was sent by Allah/God. The difference in name is like Mother/Madre. It almost seems like many Christians don't believe in other languages. LOL
Differences I have discovered 1 Muslims pray 5 times a day, Christians maybe twice a day. 2 Christians are about what Jesus has done for them, Muslims focus on what they can do for Allah/God 3 Both Muslims and Christians believe in charity for others, Muslims help regardless of the religion of the person they are helping. 4 Both have the same 10 commandments.The big notable difference is only 4% of terrorists claim to be muslim, while the number of those claiming to be christian is substantially higher according to the FBI.
When I met my wife I was Christian and she was Muslim. We have been blissfully happy for 24 years with neither of us compromising our faith.
Peace can only be achieved with an open mind.
-
Gureg Amun Ankh
It’s traditions of men that’s part of the cause of of hatred for one another, the next is what the three monotheistic religions have in common,a hateful, jealous and vengeful deity, Yahweh or what ever name you claim is used, put enmity (hatred)in a seed of beings between one and another (genesis)by the time Moses was made a god and was given Ten Commandments so men say, this deity had become a jealous being, jealousy is a low emotion and has beings make bad decisions, by the time yashua( Jesus) came he was calling people (gentiles) names like dogs, vipers, devils cause they were from another tribe of people, them Al Islam, another jealous deity if you don’t submit to me I will kill you, it seems if your in the image and likeness of these deities El, Yahweh, Eliyon El, or Allah prepare to be hated or be abused or die a horrible death, all teach fear me or else, seems like this is the same deity cause they only talk love and peace good will towards men unless you accept them and if not you must die.judaism is a 6000yrs old, christianity is 2000yrsold and al islam is only 1400yrs old, in their own books they talk how they hate one another but they preach around those verses and some use them to their advantage to control the masses and insite more hate, there a lot I have to say but this is just part, mine your mind for the jewels of your soul
-
Darrell Hebert
interesting comments.
lets do an experiment:
100 muslims pray, sing and pass out quarans in NYC, London, Paris. lets see what happens.
100 Christians pray sing and pass out bibles in Gaza City, Tehran, Kabul, Bagdad lets see what happens...
that will tell us everything right?
-
Rolando Couce
God only cares about if we take care and love each all this religious beliefs are just a waste of time and effort
-
Michael J.Daly
The are thousands of different belief systems and interpretations of those belief systems.
Therein lies the problem,, belief systems. Tricky , because we all want some guidance on our way through this life. That comes from our thinking mind.
Animals do not suffer that introspective pain, as far as we know. But then again we have the capacity for compassion towards everything, unlike animals who's will to survive would overcome that. What to do ? Sing and eating pie would be good choices..share the pie too. Love the beauty around us. Love the ugliness too.
-
Robert Edward Szekely
During "The Golden Age of Islam" Jews and Christians were a protected class within Islamic societies, during which science and art were preserved and grew. It was when the "gates of ijtihad" (independent exegesis) were closed, that Islam begin its radicalization against other faiths. It started bubbling up with Sayyid Qutb, when Qutb visited the US in 1960s, and negatively and harshly judged the West by the "free love, free sex, free drugs" of the hippie movement as sinful, decadent and ungodly. Qutb and Hasan al Bana developed the Muslim Brotherhood in Saudi Arabia, an extremist movement which seeks to convert the entire globe to Wahabist Islam by force. This radicalism manifest itself mainly since the late 20th century (1979, to be exact) with the Islamic Revolution in Iran. These groups are actually in the minority, but they get the most coverage in the media, so we assume they represent Islam en masse. Two legendary sports figures in the United States are/were Muslim: Kareem Abdul Jabbar (basketball) and the late Muhammad Ali (boxing), and they never used their celebrity to preach their religion - they just practiced it quietly.
-
David Marshall
Disappointed in Dawkins. All religion is bad. By seeming partisan be is weakening his own argument.
-
Russel A. Kester
David, interesting post. I quite disagree with it but do wonder why you think Dawkins has weakened his atheist beliefs. I listened to him and was very comfortable that he still holds to his atheism and simply acknowledged some of the good pleasantries Christianity brought to English culture. There was an article here on the blog not long ago about atheist churches because people love the gatherings, songs, and encouraging messages. That's what I heard Dawkins say. And that is what Dawkins sees disappearing from the UK. I think his objectivity as an atheist is laudable.
-
-
Keith Law
First, Christians and Muslims get along all the time in many places, you just don’t hear about it because it doesn’t make the news. There are Muslim and Christian members of my private gym and they get along great!
Second, in the USA currently it is the Christians who are leading a fascist movement that is xenophobic, anti women, and anti gay.
Just saying.
-
Stephanie A Willey
It depends on what kind of Christian or Muslim they are. The kind of Christian that my Mother was and all the Muslim's I've ever known and worked side by side with all coexist perfectly. On the other hand, the kind of Christians and Muslim's whose harts are filled with hate and whose gods sanction murdering all the "others" in his name can and will never coexist.
-
Melinda June Brown Vanfossen
Good day or night to whom ever reading this. I am me, Universal Life Church Ordained me Minister about 2 years ago. I had a belief that every person has a given spiritual nature that resides in them. Whether it be any religion, we all are temples of thee,"Divine Heavenly Father." We are in care of ourselves & our fellow human beings. I have many friends of different religions. I do have respect on all.
-
Brien
Hmm, is one murderous mythical belief better than the other, I guess that depends on what story you like the most. All brainwashed zealot beliefs are used to justify bigotry, hate, war and death. So to me, ALL of these holier than tho beliefs are exactly the same
-
April B
There is a huge lack of true spirituality. Neither of these religions are taught to be enlightened. If they want to rise above the dogma, they need to look at things from a spiritual perspective. The spirit/source is pure love. Combined with respect, people can come together.
-
Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski
Interesting topic. It is important to be respectful & embrace multifaiths & support with acceptance the freedoms of reliqion unbiased. We are living in exciting time in the spiritual world by example set forward for us. Places of worship campus are including a catholic church, a mosque, & a synagoge for christians, for muslums, & for jewish people. An incredible trio on the persian gulf Thanks to Pope Francis. Keep growin in the faith & stay open minded.
-
April B
The only two things that will ever bring people together are…LOVE AND RESPECT!!! The collective conscious unfortunately has drifted away from these core fundamentals.
-
Warren Calvin Wall
Quite frankly, none of the Abrahamic religions are based in liberty. They want all of the privilege of liberty and none of the responsibility. The American experiment has failed and has resulted in the mess we have today. All of these various groups, religious and secular, are fighting over control of the carcass. It will be interesting to see who wins. Unfortunately, I likely won't get to see who wins and who winds up with the scraps.
-
John Ash McCormick
I just see that Islam was founded hundreds of years after Christianity and that major religions appear to mature at about the same same rate so when we see Islam sects being violent we should look at the witch burnings for comparison. I doubt Islam will become all sweetness and light since in the US fundamentalist Christians are desperately working to force an ever worse theocracy on the rest of us but there will always be sects of both religions which will follow the "founders'" original intents. Thinking Islam is missoginist in a country where states are daily working to force women back into the pre 1960s when it was illegal for teenagers to buy condoms in MA and other states is simply ignoring the lessons of history. Theocracies are inherently bad for some groups and have worked so well in the past. the USSR was a theocracy as was Nazi Germany, the one worshiped Lenin and the other Hitler.
-
John Ash McCormick
BTW, I meant the teachings attributed to Christ and Mohamed both of which actually taught something very different from almost all their followers practice today. For example, Google "mohamads original teachings about women" and you will see "Part of Muhammad's legacy was to end infanticide and establish explicit rights for women. Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God. It grants women divinely sanctioned inheritance, property, social and marriage rights, including the right to reject the terms of a proposal and to initiate divorce." Might I suggest that those who wish to discuss theology spend more time studying history and browsing https://archive.sacred-texts.com/ You don't need to study history or discuss theology to officiate at events.
-
-
Steven Ferrell
Sadly no it cannot happen. If anyone goes a deep study into Islam they will find they have only two main goals. To murder all Jews and then to force the rest of the world into Islam and murder any who will not convert.
Islam degrades women, does not want them educated and in many areas still today they mutilate the female genitalia so sex is never enjoyable to women, it is painful at best and women are only used for male pleasure and procreation.
They murder gays in Muslim countries. If a girl or woman is raped, they stone the female because she must have enticed the man.
The two will never be able to live together for very long peacefully.
-
Mitch
While I expect "my religion is right and your religion is wrong" behavior from theists, Dawkins is apparently now headed down a similar path. He's built his career on evolutionary biology and anti-theism, and now he seems to be wavering a bit on both.
-
William J Lewis
All faiths are dependent upon the actions of the people within them, therein lies the problem.
-
Robbie Ousley
I wonder if Dawkins would still say that today considering how the extremists of christianity are doing everything they can to take over countries with their religious hate, fear-mongering, and nationalism. The violence of the past is haunting our presence and hindering future possibilities of being and doing better for generations. The faux christians of state recognized religions in dictatorships are just as violent when supporting dictators in their disdain for competition and at least somewhat true democracy.
-
Mitch
He's been saying it for a long time, the most recent being apparently less than two weeks ago. I'd say he's aware, but remarkably accepting of the religion that he's been actively disparaging for decades.
TL;DR: Dude's slipping
-
-
John Alex Paxson
No one religion is right or wrong ... there is good and bad ... right and wrong in every belief... It's all the same, just with a different name... it's just the humans who believe 100% that "Their" book and "Their" belief is the "Real" belief ... they are the intolerant problem with humanity.
-
Father Flanagan
The ideology of hate and death disguised as a religion called islam is not compatible with human existence let alone can it coexist with other religions. The problem with the world is “belief” which in order to have a religion you have to make people give up logic, reason and common sense in favor of something called “faith” which to me is nothing more than religions justification for “god’s” absence in reality. So now that you have a huge portion of the world believing that there’s an invisible all powerful deity living in the sky that offers an “eternal reward” for obedience and an “eternal punishment” for non compliance or belief is it really such a far stretch to convince people that men can be women and have babies and all that? Religion and “belief” have and are causing most of the world’s problems and are responsible for millions and millions of deaths. Luckily for me I escaped before being fully indoctrinated as a child and was able to see reality for what it is.
-
Robert Edward Szekely
It isn't the religion per se, it's the individuals who wrap their ideology in the trappings of the religions: and it happens with both Christianity AND Islam AND even Hinduism in India.
-
-
Scott Kelley
Islam is a death cult that is far far more than a mere religion. Islam is an all-encompassing way of life that includes governance, legalities, economics, morality and defines how a society MUST conduct itself. Islam is worse than Stalin, Mao and Hitler and their methods of brutality combined.
Moslem adherents will deny that, but Islam is still here, advancing and murdering across the planet. All Western countries better wake up to the extreme threat of advancing Islam and repel the barbarian hordes while ousting every Moslem within our sacred lands.
-
Russel A. Kester
Amen.
-
-
Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
If he had to choose….
Everyone understands that Dawkins isn’t promoting xtianity, right? Just like myself, he thinks that xtianity is total nonsense. But I agree with him on this. Maybe the Muslims in the US are more laid back but those guys in the desert are still living in the year 75. And they’re violent little buggers.
The xtians aren’t blowing up buses….yet. Had that little party at the capitol building though. But only one person dead. They’ve still gotta ways to go before they step up from Really Freakin’ Annoying to killing at least 50 a pop. I mean they don’t even stand up to a school shooter.
Put them all on an island and do a ‘Last Man Standing’ thing. Then just leave the Last Man on the island,
-
Charles Laws
"Given our belief that we are all children of the same universe, how can we reconcile these comments with our dream for unity?" a). Unity isn't a dream. It's a reality. We are simply inextricable from the universe, our galaxy, the solar system and our biosphere - and that includes all past and future times and beliefs and the generation of diversity of organisms and organizations. cultures, religions, atheists included, and civilizations.. -Many,.. we know.. have gone extinct .. -unless we can believe life is valuable and do what we can to protect -lT- we are also going to join the dinosaurs.. But that would also be part of Unity.. the Whole of existence and our created dieties .. just part of the Unity..
-
Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Christians have a hard time coexisting with other Christians and can't happily coexist with any other religion.
-
Timothy C Stone
If both groups actually read and lived by the teachings of the books they claim to follow there would be no problem. Fundamentalism is the downfall of both religions. Hateful and ethnocentric interpretations of scripture are what cause division. There are five divine guidelines that the Qur'an clearly presents to Muslims for building tolerance and understanding among differing religions. Everyone's God-given human dignity must be respected, regardless of his or her faith, race, ethnic origin, gender, or social status (ref. Qur'an, 17:70). The simplest lesson... " A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." -John 13:34
-
Robbie Ousley
I like what you're saying, I'm just a little confused by your comment abut Qur'an, 17:70 which came up with this text when I searched for it: "Indeed, We honoured the progeny of Adam, and bore them across land and sea and provided them with good things for their sustenance, and exalted them above many of Our creatures." I suppose it can be interpreted the way you described but haven't had the priviledge of hearing it mentioned that way before. In my experience John 13:34 is usually used for christians to love each other and noone else. I've heard my share of sermons in a variety of churches say this scripture doesn't require anybody to love anyone they disagree with, and some go on to say that it proves they don't have to accomodate anybody else's beliefs. Of course they don't go on to point out all of the scriptures that basically order them to go to everyone and be examples of the good news of love for all people when they're focusing on this scripture. It's just amazing how exclusive religion makes so many people, especially when they have no indepth historical education about the scriptures, how they came about, and what the priorities of value are in them. Thanks for your point though. I do think both the Quran and christian bible express all-inclusivity even though so many don't see them that way and use them in just the opposite ways.
-
-
Mike
Very good post. It is interesting to read the Comments and their replies.
I am not tooting my own horn, but some of my best friends are Muslims, both Shiites and Sunnis. They are overwhelmingly kind, generous, charitable, and honest people. In fact, they all are or they wouldn't be my friends.
I see 3 problems that interfere with peaceful co-existence. The first is the rise of hardline leaders in the the Islamic countries. They do not follow the Quran but rather "interpret" it to validate their own man-made beliefs. And I don't necessarily mean the "man" part in its general sense, but also in its particular sense.
The second is Jihadism. Instead of being a call to spread the message of the prophet Mohammed, it has evolved into this vile monstrosity we now see.
The third obstacle lies with us Christians. We don't make the effort or take the time to know the religion, or more importantly, the people who practice it. Muslims honor Jesus highly as the prophet to the Jews. Mary is spoken of more times in the Quran than Jesus (Issa) is. Their veneration of her approaches that of the catholics, stopping short of praying to her, though.
I believe the root of all this conflict lies with the rise of the modern state. Get rid of all psychopathic "leaders" and institutions and the world would become a much happier place.
NB: The "God Gene" theory of Dawkins is BS. The multitudes of atheists who convert to any religion exposes that lie. As does the the number of religious people who get fed up with the party line and become atheists. If they really had the God gene all along, why did they defy it? And how? Gene therapy, perhaps? Or even genetic modification? Maybe there is a epigenetic switch?
-
Robert Louis Rada
Studying various religions during my lifetime, including being raised Mormon now baptized Catholic I find the Koran interesting; like the Bible. One can study religion without judgement. For me, Malcolm X made a lot of sense & is an inspiration to me.
-
Alexander Arends
Yes it is possible for Christians and Muslims to coexist but we are a long way off yet. First Muslims themselves need to make peace with each other, and become less orthodox.
Should you, in the 16th century, have asked if Catholics and Protestants could ever coexist, the answer would have been no, never. But things change over time. Who knows what common enemy we may face years from now.
-
Rev. Rory
There was a time when parents wishing for their children to have a strict religious education sent them to a school sponsored by their place of worship, on their own dime and that of their members. Now in the United States, various religious groups want their own religion inserted into public school. Texas and Florida are examples of the mess this has caused. New York has had a school board or two taken over also. Public education should be open to all, age appropriate and non-discriminatory. Religion should be recognized and understood but not "taught." If a parent does not want a child to participate in certain activities in a school, fine, but we are polarizing children from each other. It does not bode well for future generations.
Look at almost every major religion and you will find violence of some kind. In the United States, many in the national spotlight claiming to be Christians tend to sway toward the Old Testament fire and brimstone parts of the Bible, and Jesus - not so much.
"When there is peace among religions, there will be peace in the world." Dali Lama
-
Diane Minna LaFave
According to the Bible " Christians, Jews, and Muslims are brothers ". Kindly remember , all people are Children of God . We need to love all people and not judge them simply because they don't Believe what we believe. We are all more alike than different .
-
Dr Asha Sharma
Our duty to people as we call our self religious leaders should preach truth we are all humans on this planet called Earth and have chosen different path to believe in. The fault is out own doing. What is religion? Why have we created this ?
-
Revd. Dr. R. Vincent BEM, LDPS
We, in the West, are slowly losing our Christian culture and identity. This isn't just because of the growing Muslim population, but also the fact that so many Westerners are moving away from the Christian church. Also, some of our young people are being drawn into the Islamic faith. I think people, in general, need to have something to believe in and, if we want to put rears on seats in our churches, we need to make it appealing. The Church certainly needs to be less judgemental.
Personally, I feel that the bible really isn't fit for our 21st-century understanding of the world. Whilst it contains some good lessons, there is much in the Bible which is just plain wrong. However, the Bible was originally compiled closer to the time of Christ than the Quran was to the time of Mohammed. Also, although hard line Muslims want to convert Christians, the Quran clearly states that Christians should abide by the gospels, therefore, Mohammed states that Christians shouldn't be converted, which surely must be a conundrum for Muslims.
As to whether Christians and Muslims can co-exist, the answer is yes, but I doubt that, in the end, we will. We could, we should but we won't. Differences of opinion in religion have led to so much bloodshed over the years and the Christians have our own checkered history in that regard.
-
Nicholas J Page
I live in England and I believe Christians and Muslims do co exist it's only the bad people who do bad things.I as a Christian and ordained minister do not get involved with multi cultures nor do I preach but people know I'm a minister because I tell them.If they need me I'm available but I will not get involved with hatred between religions as people have their own beliefs etc.I don't want to be seen as a trouble maker.Love thy neighbour and give peace a chance.Theres enough hatred in the world so let's all get on.together make the world a better place were not here for ever.
-
He Who Breathes
I like the place where you live. :)
The real world does not work like that though.
-
-
Rev_Shaun
In 2011, 4.9% of UK residents identified as Muslim, and by 2021 it had expanded to 6.5%.
Err, the figure is much higher than that. in London(istan) alone more than half the population is that.
Remember that many of them don't fill in census forms, so I think the figure is around 12% and growing rapidly
-
Robert E. Polston
Hello Folks!
The Ku Klux Klan proclaim their "Christianity" and "Christian's" at large do not self-police their members who commit crimes against Jews, Black people, LGBTQ+, Islam, and other groups. These hatsful faithful frequently embrace white supremacy, and other fearsome forms of hate, ignorance, and anti-American criminal behavior. As is the case among Islam, we find many "Christians" silent on calling out other "Christian" groups that drag Black men behind pickup trucks in chains until they are dead, burn down Black churches at an alarming rate, or visit Black churches and kill members in cold blood. Is there a big movement by "Christians" to stop their own from being in the Klan or being White Supremacists? No, "Christians" are willing to work to elect political leaders that consider these radical hate groups as being that "there are a lot of good people on both sides.”. To impose "Christian" morals on everyone and force the isolation or segregation of groups with which you do not agree which denies freedom and is hate when imposed by law, all be it bad or unconstitutional law. Being subtle, underhanded, or indirect does not stop hate from being hate, "Death to America" is simply a fundamentalist cry that is blunt and direct, not different from burning down a black church or leading to children stoning a gay boy to his death.
It seems that one of the founding principles of the United States being freedom gets edited when we falsely call the United States a Chrisitan Nation. At the root of many Americans making an exodus from Europe, the Middle East, and other places in the world is to find freedom. It can be economic, social, political, or yes religious freedoms, but freedom is the common principle. Fundamental to the United States and fundamental to the gift of life from a creator that no matter how you worship in love and good faith, gave us all freedom to live our life and share our world.
Any fool can look at the big picture and pick out the differences that people use to justify their hate and proclaim how religious differences are to blame, but it is not the sheep clothing that is the root problem. Hate, intolerance, racism, all grow out of tiny minds that are too challenged to see the big picture. Hate and Ignorance are our real enemies no matter what the faith an individual claims or embraces. Maybe next time you open your mouth to make a proclamation you should gage your words against the belief system you embrace. Especially Christian's who are bound by two commands; "Love the Lord your God with all your Heart, with all your Mind, and with all your Spirit, and Love your neighbor as yourself."
Rev. Bob
-
David Buck
Come on, Rev Bob! The KKK? Really? The Klan is a spent force, and has been since at least the 70s. Yes they did all those things to black men, but not for a few decades now, and while they may call themselves Christian, they most certainly are not and never were. Hell, in my father's time in rural Ontario Canada, the Klan burned crosses on the lawns of Roman Catholic families - nothing Christian about that.
Islam is not a religion - or at least not ONLY a religion. It is also a political system, with it's own laws. I have nothing against anybody who wants to pray to the Prophet - so long as they mind their own business. However, when they start meddling in politics, telling me I can't celebrate Easter or Christmas, trying to introduce Sharia law, and when roving gangs of idiot young men roam the streets harassing anybody who eats during Ramadan or women who dress 'immodestly', then I say there is no peacefully cohabitating with them and they must be stopped.
-
Eric Laspe
Bob, your disregard for the statistical data is allowing you to draw an absurd equivalence between small problems on one side and massive problems on the other. Yes, both Christianity and Islam have violent adherents who are intolerant of others. On one side, there are thousands of such people. On the other, hundreds of millions.
In majority Christian countries, violence against minorities is condemned by nearly everyone. Our laws respect religious and ideological differences and harshly punish people who commit hate crimes. In Islamic majority countries, violence against minorities is literally government policy. How can you say these are the same?
“Any fool can look at the big picture…” Do you really believe we would be wiser to use anecdotes for comparing problems among global populations?
-
Robert E. Polston
Frankly, the fact that we have a racist "Christian" running for President again who supported white supremacy while he was in office with his commentaries is something you fact checkers missed. Eric and Michael, I am not sure if you simply have your heads planted in a deep dark place where reality does not shine, or if you have your hoods and skin heads ready for the next march. Either way, you are as wrong as you can be and your kind of ignorance only makes things worse. You clearly are NOT well informed about anything, be it Christianity, Racism, or reality.
21st century by Wikapedia 2001–2010
2006 July 11 A cross was burned outside a predominantly black church in Richmond, Virginia[12] 2008 November 5 Macedonia Church of God in Christ, in Springfield, Massachusetts, was burned down and an arrest was made.[13] 2010 December 28 In Crane, Texas, the Faith in Christ Church was vandalized with "racist and threatening graffiti" and then firebombed by a man who was attempting to gain entry into the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas; an arrest was made and the perpetrator was found guilty and sentenced to 37 years in prison.[14]
2011–present
2014 November 24 The Flood Christian Church in Ferguson, Missouri, was burned by arsonists during a series of protests over the police shooting of Michael Brown, Jr. Michael Brown Sr. had been baptized at the church a week before the fire.[15] While other buildings in Ferguson were burned that night, the church was some distance from the protests, and buildings nearby were not damaged; investigators also found signs of forced entry at the church.[16] Members of the congregation believed it had been a targeted attack, motivated by Pastor Carlton Lee's calls for Officer Darren Wilson's arrest and his participation in Al Sharpton's National Action Network.[15][17] Pastor Lee died of an apparent heart attack in 2017, at the age of 34.[18] 2015 June 17 At Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, 10 African Americans, including Clementa C. Pinckney, member of the South Carolina Senate, were shot in a mass shooting; nine were killed. White supremacist and neo-Nazi Dylann Roof pled guilty to murder and was sentenced to nine consecutive life sentences without parole. 2015 June 22 At College Hill Seventh Day Adventist, in Knoxville, Tennessee, a small fire was set, resulting in minimal damage to the church structure and destruction of the church van. The act was not classified as a hate crime.[19] 2015 June 23 God's Power Church of Christ in Macon, Georgia, was gutted by a fire which was ruled arson.[20][21] 2015 June 24 At Briar Creek Baptist Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, an unknown arsonist started a three-alarm fire, causing more than $250,000 in damages.[22] 2016 November 1 The 111-year-old Hopewell Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, Mississippi, was burned and vandalized with the words "Vote Trump" spray-painted onto the building. The arsonist, a black man who was a member of the church, pled guilty in March 2019.[23][24][25] 2019 March 26 St. Mary Baptist Church in Port Barre, Louisiana. This was the first in a series of three historically black churches over 100 years old, burned within a span of 10 days. Holden Matthews, 21, the son of a St. Landry Parish sheriff's deputy, was charged with the arson attack.[26][27][28] Matthews reportedly was not motivated by race but rather by anti-Christian animus and a desire to promote himself as a black metal musician in the mold of Varg Vikernes, who committed a similar series of church burnings in 1990s Norway.[29] On November 2, 2020, Matthews was sentenced to 25 years in prison and ordered to pay the churches $2.6 million.[30] 2019 April 2 Greater Union Baptist Church in Opelousas, Louisiana. Holden Matthews was charged with the arson attack.[26][27][28] 2019 April 4 Mount Pleasant Baptist Church in Opelousas, Louisiana. Holden Matthews was charged with the arson attack.[26][27][28] 2022 November 8 Two churches, Greater Bethlehem Temple Church and Epiphany Church, in Jackson, Mississippi were burned overnight. Both fires, in addition to 5 others set the same night, were deemed the work of an arsonist.[31][32]
References
-
-
Merlin
Both have doctrine (rules or the “law”) that must be followed. If not, their righteousness is at stake. If emotions(fear) can be exploited by the leadership, coexistence will be a challenge ( ie…crusades).
-
Daniel Gray
Sure. If they come over here then they follow OUR laws, just like what would be expected of us if we go over there.
-
Lionheart
If there were NO religions on earth, only secular people, the earth would be one very happy place to live.
🦁❤️
-
Mike
Really? Like the happy found in the secular states of North Korea and China today? Or in the secular states of the past like Nazi Germany and the former Soviet Union? Get real.
-
Lionheart
Just because those secular countries were/are predominantly agnostic, it doesn’t mean to say that religion did not exist, or play a part in where they are today. Religions still exist in those present-day countries.
The religions of Buddhism and Confucianism exists in North Korea
The religions of Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity exists in China
Eastern Orthodox Christianity was the predominant religion of the former Soviet Union?
Adolf Hitler, though in later life considered himself agnostic, was raised Catholic.
Thank you for your comment, Sir.
🦁❤️
-
ServantOfJudgement
That's right Mike.
As it turns out, once all religions are gone, the sin will disappear along with them and everybody suddenly gets mighty nice and polite. Guys like Kim Jong pick up canasta and crochet as hobbies instead of mowing pesky citizens down with .50 caliber chain fed anti aircraft machine guns. Non religious outfits like BLM and antifa continue to peacefully burn down cities and take over government buildings. They're nice about it though. When people sucker punch pedestrians, they do it with love.
The Chinese are used to not having religion so they pretty much stay the same except the people are very happy about being modern slaves for the planet. They love the stuff. There's nothing like being a religious free slave of the state.Like the communist John Lennon said ...Imagine..
-
-
-
Dr. Darryl G Dykes
Simple answer is NO. Any group religion or faith that demands its members to kill non believers will not accept any other,making a co-exsistance unattainable.
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
This misguided teaching of the moslems to kill the infidels is the perfect opportunity to TEACH OUT OF LOVE, not chastise, that Christians, Jews and Moslems worship the same God, and the faithful are in constant prayer. I've done this. I also, at the threat of my own head, told them to cut cleanly because Jesus predicted this behavior two thousand years ago when he said we would be killed by the faithful who believe they are doing the will of the Father. I bowed my head for the knife, and I was taken away and asked more about my faith. I'm here to tell you that respecting the belief in the God of Abraham, and recognizing him in all three forms of worship, will bring peace, not through wars. It is when we teach and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (I refuse to say "Ghost" because that is an apparition), and allow the Moslems to continue their faithful prayers that we have converts. By showing how the two religions are from the same lineage we fine ourselves realizing that there is, indeed, peace by showing ourselves to not be infidels, but rather fellow faithful from a different mansion.
-
-
Michael Holland
Acceptance of others is the cornerstone of Christianity ! Or Acceptance of others follows the golden rule!
-
Rev. Mike Eggleston
Christianity does not accept others. It's a totalitarian cult that has attempted (but failed to achieve) world domination.
Individual sects don't even accept other sects of christianity-
William Lewis Vass
You're absolutely right. Christianity can't get along with itself. Hence why there are a thousand different splinter groups.
-
-
-
John W
As much as some say we can mutually co-exist, the fact of the matter is that no we cannot. We have never, since the beginnings of our respective religions, gotten along. It seems in the modern context the true adherents of Islam prefer to maintain their thoughts and beliefs in the 1400s as opposed to the thoughts and beliefs of the modern age. Very seldom, if ever, will you hear an American citizen lead a group of Christians/Jews/other religions in chants of "Death To [insert the name of a country]", yet daily Islamic "holy men" and leaders lead chants of "Death To America" or "Death To Israel" to their masses of followers. The almost vitriolic hatred of western values, beliefs and customs by the Islamic community resounds worldwide as they see how we live our lives via freedom of speech, expression, religious views, in how we interact amongst other genders and the freedoms / liberties we allow others to have. I recently attended a wedding of a couple who were of the Bahia faith. The groom was born and raised in the United States and the bride was born in Iran but raised in the United States after her family was forced to flee Iran due to the Islamic Mullahs dislike of the Bahai faith and the persecution of that religion in Iran. Christians may not be perfect, but we don't stone people for adultery, or women who have been raped or throw from buildings those who profess to be LGBTQ+ nor do we force others to flee the country in fear just because of their religion.
-
Robert James Ruhnke
The hell christians don’t. Many of accusations you push on Muslims, Christians are guilty of. Both of your religions look the other way when y’all punish alleged sinners. Christians now are trying to outlaw LGBTQ+ existence and are trying to control the existence of women. Point fingers all you like, Christian and Muslims have the same hang ups and problems. Trump the other day had an effigy of Biden tied up and gagged. His lot keep pushing the deaths of democrats. A non binary student was beat to death in Oklahoma after Libs of TikTok started going after and slandering LGBTQ+ people. So no. Y’all need to grow up and be brought into the 21st century and leave your Bronze Age superstitions behind. Love Jesus all you like, but stop forcing your beliefs down the rest our throats.
-
ServantOfJudgement
Very kindly Robert, you know as well as everyone on the planet that there is a fundamental difference between the core Christian faith and the core Muslim faith.
Before I get into the islam mantra, we need to remember the girl in Oklahoma started the fight with the other girls. She started it and they finished it, as they should have. The girl killed herself, she was not beaten to death.
Today Islam:
Crucifies christians, beheads unbelievers, executes homosexuals, executes unruly women, performs honor killings, forbids women from voting, flys jets into skyscrapers, burns christians alive, cuts babies from the womb to behead them, cuts breasts from women during rape, sends suicide children into market places, pounds crucifixes into the mouth of women after raping them, cuts the throat of women in the manner a butcher dispatches livestock, forbids women from working, marries 6 year olds, uses chemical warfare on their own men, women and children and publicly proclaims their desire to completely and totally eradicate all Jews from planet earth.
There's more but these should hold us over. These are not lunatics acting on voices in their heads. They're members of organized Islamic people that all share the same beliefs. It's the way they're supposed to be. They are true believers without shame.
-
Russel A. Kester
Well said SOJ. But also so very sad that it the factual truth.
-
-
Russel A. Kester
Robert, you are so far off base I don't know how you will find your way back to a sane perspective. I am gay and fear neither the Christian churches nor Trump. But you'd better believe I fear Islam. Have you ever researched what Islam does to gay people? Have you seen how it treats women who resist its severe teachings and want to be free? You continue to act to promote bad left-wing ideologies. Islam is not an oppressed victim, it is the oppressor around the world. Open your eyes and see what is actually in from of them and not what some elite class tells you to see.
-
-
Joy
No Christians are not perfect. No one is. Christians do other things, like strip the rights of all women and subjugate them to the ruling by men. Christians do prersecute the LGBTQ+ community. Christians strike fear in their followers for doing anything wrong in the faith's eye, like sex or drinking. Whilst you claim you do not do X, Y, or Z, you surely use the rest of the alphabet to condemn those who do not get in line with your leaders, who are (usually) men.
-
John Robert Milner
I think you need to substitute the word Muslim for Christian’ except for the first line.
-
Joy
No. I was precise with what I said. Open your eyes.
-
Russel A. Kester
You were precisely wrong. You simply hate men and thus Christianity because it has a history of strong men. Christians are not persecuting gays. Even the Catholic Church has for years acknowledged that gays are to be ministered to and loved. It and fundamentalists still need to work on their ideas about sex, but that is not persecution. Other churches have female pastors, priests, and even bishops. Times have changed, now it's time to review your outdated views.
-
Eric Laspe
Joy, the harms done by a religion and their followers are always going to be non-zero, but they are not all of the same degree. When you that Christians “persecute” gay folks, surely you are pointing to unfavorable legislation they push to restrict rights to marry, along with rare incidents of violence by extremist outliers. The vast majority of Christians condemn such acts. Whereas entire nations with Islamic governments see public executions of gay people as a moral imperative.
Women are truly second-class citizens there. I can’t even name a majority Christian country where women are “subjugated” by men as directed by their faith.
I broke free of Christianity long ago. You’re right that the religion can put a fear of God into people. I was certainly harmed by my fear of hell. But I did not become an apostate worthy of the death penalty when I left Christianity. I often speak ill of Christianity now, but I have no fear that Christians are going to feel justified stabbing me to death like Muslims do to the harshest critics of Islam.
-
-
Michael J.Daly
Joy has a point , however it is more the Republicans under the Christian banner and enabled by Evangelicals and Christian nationalists that are restricting women's rights and writing anti LGBTQ laws and encouraging the bigotry. A Muslim would also fall in line with those actions. A true follower of Christ would not share that worldview.
-
-
He Who Breathes
You cannot say that about Xtian, and excuse Iscam at the same time. That is either uninformed, or disillusion.
-
-
John Robert Milner
Well said! The differences between Christianity and Ismam is vast. One faith is based on love and forgiveness and the other is based on the strict adherence,
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
One is based on the NEW covenants, and Islam is based on the Torah's teachings and Mosaic laws. Christianity originally was for the Kosher, or the Jewish faithful, as is Islam. Both rely on the laws handed down to Moses on the Mountain for their bases. Even the prohibitions on what is permissible to eat are identical. Christianity for the gentiles is the gift of grace given because the Jews refused to recognize Jesus' teachings as true. The faith was taken away from them as a punishment because the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees and Saducees (the high priests) of the Temple forbade the people to progress in their knowledge of the faith, which would have exposed them for being corrupted by the evil one, and would have forced them out of power.
-
-
-
Dan Anderson
Put simply, of course they can! They worship the same God of Abraham, the Muslim also recognizes Jesus as the greatest Prophet of God, and many more points.
The reason for most of the conflict in the US is that American Christians have not taken the time to learn about Islam, so their fears of something being different scares them.
The groups that promote violence and murder are at the same level as the Ku Klux Klan. Neither follows the teachings found in the Bible.
-
Rev_Shaun
It is not the same god. The three so-called Abrahamic faiths all worship entirely different ones. if they did not, then why do they all have very differing interpretations of what god is.
-
Revd. Dr. R. Vincent BEM, LDPS
Erm, beg to differ. The foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all from the same place and the same God. Just because the interpretation is different doesn't make it a different God.
-
Eric Laspe
What matters about the distinction between their gods is what each religion’s holy books tell their followers to do to please their god and how their followers, en masse, interpret those books. Christianity has moved toward a common interpretation of tolerance and respect for all people. Islam has not. Under Islamic rule, women are second class. Gays are to be thrown from rooftops. Apostates are to be killed. Rape victims are to be stoned.
From an Islamic Hadith: “The martyr has six unique traits: he is forgiven immediately; he sees his seat in Paradise and he is saved from the punishment of the grave; he is granted safety from the great terror [of the Day of Judgment]; a crown of honor is placed upon his head, a ruby of which is better than this life and all it contains; he is married to 72 maidens of Paradise; and he is allowed to intercede for 70 relatives.”
Different sects interpret differently what must be done to become a martyr, but the reward you see is complete absolution for oneself and 70 relatives. That is a huge incentive to do whatever one can be convinced to do in the name of their Imam’s particular flavor of Islam.
We don’t have such carrots dangling for people willing to die for God.
-
Russel A. Kester
Vincent, by your way of thinking, Zeus is the same god as Jehovah. Zeus was one god among many in the heavens and Jehovah was one god among many other regional gods. Thus the commandment not to worship any others god. Under the Jewish diaspora there is only one God, theirs, under Christianity there is a trinity God, and under Islam Allah NOT Jehovah. The concept of God is different under each religion.
-
-
-
ServantOfJudgement
Dan,
President Thomas Jefferson took the time to learn about Islam. He created a military branch of the Navy called the US Marines. They were nicknamed Leathernecks because of a leather strap they wore around their necks.
The Marines were specifically created to combat against Islamic pirates known for beheading everyone. Hence the leather neck tie.
Things haven't changed much. We still have the Marines and Islam still beheads unbelievers. In some cases they'll fly an airplane or two into skyscrapers if you give them the keys but who am I to judge a religion that's supposed to do that sort of thing.
-
He Who Breathes
Correct - The problem is, that most leftists don't learn history. (And are doomed to repeat it).
-
Rev'd Andrew
SoJ, you need to go to confession and ask for forgiveness for your sin of lying.
"Leatherneck is a slang term for a U.S. marine. The name comes from the leather neck stock that was a part of military uniforms in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries and was worn by both U.S. Army soldiers and U.S. marines of that period. And in the nineteenth century, U.S. and British army soldiers as well as U.S. marines were referred to as leathernecks, but the term only survives today as a nickname for the latter.
Leather neck stocks were part of the standard uniform of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps since the American Revolution. Neck stocks offered a degree of protection against sword blows and bayonet thrusts, but their chief attribute seems to have been to keep the soldier’s head erect and help him maintain a soldierly bearing. Joseph Plumb Martin, in his memoir of Revolutionary War service, notes that soldiers were supposed to be issued neck stocks, but these, like all uniform items, were scarce and only intermittently issued."
The Marines were not "specifically created to combat against Islamic pirates" either. SMH
-
Russel A. Kester
Andrew, I googled the term leatherneck and this is the first item returned "The term "Leatherneck" is a nickname for a U.S. Marine that comes from the high collar, or "The Stock," that Marines wore around their necks from 1798 until 1872. The stock was made of leather and had a clasp, and was about four inches high. The Marines wore the stock to protect themselves from pirate sabers. Sailors began using the term as a term of ridicule, and the stock became part of the uniform as a tribute to the stock collar, with a stiff cloth tab behind the front of the collar in the dress blue uniform." So SOJ told the truth. And who were these pirates using sabers? Muslims! That two things you were wrong about because you mistook the origin of the term for the later use in general by the military because it proved effective. Tsk, tsk.
-
Rev'd Andrew
Russel, maybe you aren't aware that "the eighteenth century" is the 1700s, so your quote only goes to support my position. Now, did your Google search tell you that the only sailors who used sabers were "Islamic pirates" too? Tsk tsk indeed! The saber was used by British sailors, French sailors, Dutch sailors, privateers, and pirates. In your fearful little world were all pirates of the Caribbean Muslims?! Both you and SoJ are certainly cut from the same cloth.
-
Russel A. Kester
The Barbary pirates, Barbary corsairs, or Ottoman corsairs were mainly Muslim pirates and privateers who operated from the Barbary states. The Marines of this period were specifically going after these burberry pirates to stop their trading in white slaves that were taken from countries like I believe Sicily. So once again, you point at perhaps a small percentage of persons the US Marines might have encountered and ignore the 98% of the reason why the collars were necessary.
-
Rev'd Andrew
Wrong again. The newly-independent USA signed peace treaties with the Barbary states in 1795, a year after the US Navy was formed, and paid tribute to ensure it's vessels weren't attacked. The US certainly didn't care about Sicilians being kidnapped and enslaved! I know you are used to the US being "the world's police" but back then they were paying 20% of their federal budget to Algiers to ensure their meagre Mediterranean trade wasn't disrupted. It seems you've also forgotten about the war of 1812. Who was the enemy then? Britain. How did they attack the US? They had a navy. What was the purpose of the US navy? To defend against the British. Both the British and US naval uniforms included high-neck protection, because in hand-to-hand combat a saber blow to the neck would be fatal without protection. TO think that only Muslims struck necks with their sabers is naivety and islamophobia at its finest.
-
Russel A. Kester
Andrew, you fail recall that Barbary states reneged on those deals. Barbary Wars, 1801–1805 and 1815–1816 The Barbary States were a collection of North African states, many of which practiced state-supported piracy in order to exact tribute from weaker Atlantic powers. Morocco was an independent kingdom, Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli owed a loose allegiance to the Ottoman Empire. The United States fought two separate wars with Tripoli (1801–1805) and Algiers (1815–1816), although at other times it preferred to pay tribute to obtain the release of captives held in the Barbary States. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1801-1829/barbary-wars
-
-
-
-
ServantOfJudgement
Revd Andrew,
I've learned and studied quite a bit surrounding Christianity and it's opposition. Mainly I've been testing the Bible and what it says against what I find. Sometimes I can get facts jumbled or off a bit as time goes on.
When people get facts wrong, it's not lying, it's being wrong, and that's ok too. I'm always willing to be wrong.
To that end, I read a few books about Christianity birthing the United States because we're similar to Israel in principle. That led me to reading books on first few presidents back in 2010ish. That's where I learned Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, was an atheist, studied Islam and the Koran then dispatched the leathernecks(marines) to the African coastal regions to put down Islamic pirates that were attacking US merchant ships and butchering Americans. From Jefferson's notes, as I recall, they were called leathernecks back then.
Feel free to critique my memory about Jefferson's presidency. I might be off a bit but I'm not lying. I did Google it just now, they were created in 1775 so it wasn't during Jefferson's presidency. It could be that I remembered Jefferson being involved with their creation and tagged it to his presidency. Not sure and I don't want to read the book again. I do appreciate the minor correction, it'll last a few decades I hope.
Based on this rich discussion, I'll bet we all can agree that islamists have been beheading Americans since the country was formed and our founding fathers struggled with the problem.
-
Rev'd Andrew
If we are to accept your characterization as "Islamists have been beheading Americans since the country was formed," you should also accept the characterization that "European Americans have been enslaving, brutalizing, raping, and murdering Africans since before the country was formed." After all, for the sake of honesty we wouldn't want to give the false impression that Christian America is a beacon of morality.
-
Rev'd Andrew
Your comment about the United States being "similar to Israel in principle" is beautifully honest. Both countries were built on stolen land, following the displacement and ethnic cleansing of their original inhabitants, by religious zealots from Europe. Oh, and these same religious zealots proclaim that they are chosen by God and are morally superior to all others (for American Christians it is 'manifest destiny', for Zionist Jews it is Israel as 'God's chosen nation').
-
ServantOfJudgement
Revd Andrew
I appreciate you characterizing Russel and I as being cut from the same cloth, though it might be a step down for him. He's far more patient, polite and level headed than I am. Still it's the thought that counts.
All peoples have been brutalized and all people have been brutal. All have enslaved and all have been enslaved. It's a human condition. Though I brought up the past, I did so as a reference against the nature of Islam and can it exist with other faiths or people with no faith. Dwelling on the past will eventually get us to the very recorded and very ancient Israel/Palestinian conflict.
Since you've brought it up I'll be happy to point out that when the anti Christian Manifest Destiny ended it ended with native Americans retaining land that they control to this day. This movement was antichrist in principle yet still preserved a people, which is the nature of God when he prunes a people. God prunes that which he chooses to preserve and grow. We have a loving and wise gardener.
If islam were in the place of Christianity, we'd see no reservations. There would be no record of native Americans existence. Today we wouldn't know of their customs, traditions and superstitions. We wouldn't know that a woman could divorce her husband by leaving his belongings outside the wigwam or teepee. All of their heritage would be fully and totally eradicated for all of time. If any native Americans still existed today it would be because the women were taken as wives/sex slaves. This is how Islam does it.
Today, the antichrists must look to yestercentury to find misguided Christian brutality (which is antichrist). Anyone can look to tomorrow to find Islamic brutality. You can trust it. You can rely on it. You can set your clock by it. They guarantee it.
For the record: When Israel did as instructed by our cosmic landlord they took the land from the Canaanites. They took land from a people that were burning their own living babies on an altar.
I'm not sure where you stand Revd Andrew, I'm on the side that doesn't want babies burned alive. I'm against the Canaanites. I agree with God. Babies shouldn't be burned alive.
-
Rev'd Andrew
God didn't "prune a people." People murdered people, often in the name of their god. Jews claimed Canaanites burned babies alive. Americans claimed Africans and Native Americans were sub-human. They needed to dehumanize those they subjugated, brutalized, and murdered to justify their actions. Rationalization of despicable acts is a human trait.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Russel A. Kester
No, Christianity and Islam cannot coexist. And neither can secularism and Islam. Or gays and Islam. No belief or ideology can coexist with Islam. To think otherwise is foolish. One need only to actually study the beliefs and history of Islam to understand this. Nevertheless, there will be those who choose to see Islam as the oppressed and everyone else as the oppressor. These people are idiots. Islam must be eradicated. How to square this with our ULC beliefs? While Muslims may have a right to their beliefs, it doesn't mean those beliefs are compatible with other's or other governments. Muslim may practice their beliefs in Muslim countries. Over the centuries this religion has wiped out Jews and Christians in the millions. Our tolerance doesn't demand that we tolerate intolerant religions like Islam. I will support nationalizing Christianity before agreeing to the continued growth of Islam. It is a national threat to all non-Muslims.
-
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Yes, Muslims and Christians CAN coexist peacefully. The only reason many struggle right now is because many leaders, on both sides, scream out hatred from their respective pulpits. Instead of encouraging their congregants to come together, to talk, to live in peace, as their bibles often also encourage, they, to maintain power over the massage, encourage hate and fear.
You bring together two families, a Christian one and a Muslim one. They talk, peacefully, about their views and the similarities between them, you will soon have two families that become good friends.
Then you bring the hardliner leaderships into it, and, before too long, these two friends are PUNISHED because they are friends. And out of fear of more punishments, start to speak out in hate toward each other, and teach their children to hate each other for fear of the punishments their leaders will do to them if they don't.
Yes, both can be friends. Their bibles are extremely similar. The problem is not the people, and it's not the religions. It's the hardliners in the leaderships who are using hate, lies, and fear to CONTROL other people. And using violence against those that refuse to follow their rhetoric of hate.
-
John Robert Milner
The word of God is very different in the written governance of their faith! Islam uses the Koran and Christians use the Bible which does not call for the death of nonbelievers!
-
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
The Christian Bible calls for the death of nonbelievers, in fact, it is loaded with passages that require wholesale slaughter of those that don't believe. Don't believe me?
ALL of these are from the Christian Bibles and call for the slaughter of non-believers.
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 -- And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
Luke 19:27 -- But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.
Deuteronomy 13:13-18 -- That certain worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction, all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever. It shall not be built again. None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you, as he swore to your fathers,
Then there are the historical facts, such as the Burning Times. where thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women, and even young children, were tortured to death, and burned alive, and hung, and even innocent animals were mutilated, burned alive, and hung.
And then there's the wholesale genocides in the Christian bibles, and the genocides, in the name of the "Christian God" against many various peoples. So yeah... the Christian faith can be, and IS, just as violent as the Islamic, and also, can be just as gentle, depending on which passages you read.
-
William Lewis Vass
And yet christians talk about love and peace then continue the cycle of hate. There is no religion on earth that tolerates the other religious beliefs. What was one of Jesus pet peeves? Religion. Why then would he have his followers create a religion after his death? He wouldn't. Christianity was never supposed to exist. Jesus taught spirituality not religion. As long as there are religions in the world there will be conflict. Religion is the enemy and spirituality is the moderator.
-
Rev'd Andrew
Agreed. It really should be called "Paulianity" or "Paulinism" since Paul is the one who created the religious cult that we now call Christianity.
-
-
-
-
Michael Burton
The biggest difference between Christianity and Islam is in the fundamental doctrine of the two. For Christianity the "founder" was Jesus who is the Christ who is the personification of God while in Islam, Muhammad is the "founder" but is not God.In fact, Muhammad was monothesitic and followed the prophets which included Jesus. But Muhammad was a political and military leader and the spread of his beleifs came through conquest. His beleivers thought that the Archangel Gabriel spoke to Muhammed and these were recorded in the Quran. Like the Christain Bible, the Quran has had many interpretations. Muhammad had many children and several of them wanted to take over the dynasty after Muhammand died. This has led to a split in Islam that is still in place today. That the two religions and the sects that grew from them show that both are political entities needing a mystic foundation to be interpreted by priests, rabbis and emirs and they hold thier positions through power and intimidation.
-
Rev. Roe
WE ARE ALL Children of GOD. Draw a large circle, place e a dot in the center representing God. , place all your various religions on the outside around the circle with a line to the center to the dot. We may not all agree with the way others believe, but we should try to understand, and learn how others believe. If you are firm in your believes you will respect others hop[ing they will be able to do the same. What ba wonderful thing!! RESPECT
-
Eric Laspe
If only we could afford to take such Pollyannaish attitudes toward violent dogmas.
In Islam, the highest level of heaven is reserved for martyrs and 70 people of their choosing. If your holy book told you your entire family could enjoy this for all eternity by strapping a bomb to your yourself to kill an infidel, why would you not take that deal? A few missed years of life on this miserable planet is a negligible price to pay for guaranteed eternity in Heaven with everyone you know.
-
-
He Who Breathes
Sorry, No.
Islam is a subjugating, war-like cult, and is designed to take over and propagate without limits.
Study it, and you will see.
-
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Study Christianity. It is ALSO A subjugating, war-like, cult designed to take over and propagate without limits. Study the Christian past, and you'll see.
-
ServantOfJudgement
By the numbers the Christian doctrine is non violent.
By the numbers the Muslim doctrine is violent.
A violent Christian is breaking his doctrine.
A violent Muslim is fulfilling his doctrine.
In Dearborn Michigan last week the Muslims were shouting Death to America.
I'll get a cup of coffee while you sort out what they might have in mind when they shout Death To America.
-
Keith Graham Ainsworth
Instead of getting a coffee, get a book on Islam, you might actually learn something before yout next post.
-
John Robert Milner
I have lived in several “moderate” Muslim countries and the worshipping of any faith besides Islam will get you the death penalty! So don’t give me any bull about non violent or understanding!
-
Russel A. Kester
Keith, I have read several books about Islam and watched many programs. Everything SOJ said is correct and true. I've also personally known a man who grew up in a Muslim country and was going to be executed for being gay. Fortunately, his family, at great sacrifice, came up with enough money to save him and immediately sent him here to the US for asylum. Get a grip, Keith, and don't be a stooge for Islamists.
-
Lion on the Beach
Have read the Quran. Have also lived and visited several Islamic countries. Try doing both and you may actually learn what "IT" really is.
-
-
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Sorry, but by the numbers, both Christian and Islam Doctrines are equally violent. Just look at history.
By the numbers, both a Christian man being violent, and a Muslim being violent, are following their doctrines depending on which passages you read.
By the numbers, both Christianity and Islam are nonviolent as well.
Both a Christian Man and a Muslim doing things to help others and be kind are following their doctrine depending on the passages followed.
Do me a favor before you post again, read an actual bible, and learn some history.
-
DAG of Hamburg
BKF- Please try to live in the present. A book, any book, is only going to provide the viewpoint and prejudice that it associates with. Try looking into the “here & now” and let me know when you find the acceptability in the Muslim world of free women wearing whatever they want to and being treated as equals, gay rights, freedom to choose, etc. You aren’t presenting anything approaching reality. It’s words on a page that are totally meaningless as witnessed by the actual behavior of Muslim barbarism. Fortunately, when push comes to shove here in the United States, it won’t matter how many turbans are here. Freedom rules here and always will.
-
-
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
The Christian Bible calls for the death of nonbelievers, in fact, it is loaded with passages that require wholesale slaughter of those that don't believe. Don't believe me?
ALL of these are from the Christian Bibles and call for the slaughter of non-believers.
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 -- And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
Luke 19:27 -- But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.
Deuteronomy 13:13-18 -- That certain worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction, all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever. It shall not be built again. None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you, as he swore to your fathers,
Then there are the historical facts, such as the Burning Times. where thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women, and even young children, were tortured to death, and burned alive, and hung, and even innocent animals were mutilated, burned alive, and hung.
And then there's the wholesale genocides in the Christian bibles, and the genocides, in the name of the "Christian God" against many various peoples. So yeah... the Christian faith can be, and IS, just as violent as the Islamic, and also, can be just as gentle, depending on which passages you read.
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
You need to pick up a Greek Orthodox Study Bible and read ALL the texts, not just the ones allowed after King James founded the Anglican Church. Read the more accurate translations instead of those that were made to allow a king to have a divorce. Then, learn that we ALL worship the God of Abraham, including the Hebrews, the Christians AND the Moslems. His name is Jehovah, and the Moslems pray to him more often than most so-called Christians even think about him, even though we, as Christians, are told to pray ceaselessly. You're quoting passages in the Torah, which predates Christian teachings. Jesus came to do away with the old laws through his covenant of blood. We must find the common ground when speaking with the Moslems, and then use it to bring the truth back into the true faithful.
-
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
Actually, Islam itself is non-violent in its doctrines. It is the modern-day imams and muallas that have instilled the doctrines of hate and violence, ever since the Nazis escaped Europe after WW II. They went to Iran and the other middle eastern nations and convinced the Moslem leadership that the Jews must be eradicated, which was a continuation of the "Final Solution" that began in the prison camps of the Third Reich. The Christians have always been persecuted, ever since 30 AD, so that battle has been going on for two millennia, and it should be noted that true believers of both faiths CAN live together, provided the two religions agree on one thing, and one thing alone. That one thing is that the word Allah is simply the Arabic word for GOD, or G-d, for the people of Judaism. He is the same for all 3 faiths. I had to set an Orthodox priest straight one time because he was disparaging the Moslems by saying Allah is false. I had to do it because there were others in the congregation saying the same thing. I had to show them my name, which is Faraj Allah, which means "Grace of God," MichAEL, which means "one who is like God." I also had to explain to them that the letters "ael," "iel" and "el" at the ends of many of their own names came from the Jewish, or Hebrew word for G-d, which is "el." Once we were all "educated," I also had to show them where Mohammed's last words were, "Be kind to the Christians and the Jews, for they are our brothers in God." So, yes, following the admonitions of Mohammed, Jews, Christians AND Moslems CAN get along in peace if we all realize that none of the faithful of the three religions are infidels.
-
Ahmed Abduljabar Al-Hujazi
ServantOfJudgement, Assalumu Alaikum (peace be with you). The traditional greeting all Muslims give to all persons they meet. All you have done is prove how ignorant you are of what being a Muslim means. You're buying into the propaganda of those who are outside of Islam and oppose it out of cowardice and prejudice; and the propaganda of those Muslims who, like other religious fundamentalists, are using a twisted form of the faith for their own purposes.
On topic: Islam is the first religion to guarantee rights for women. Women under Islam have the right to divorce, the right to own property, the right of inheritance, and may not be abused. Those who say women/girls may not have an education, are themselves ignorant of Islam, even if they claim to be Muslims.-
Russel A. Kester
Ahmed, the devil is in the details as they say. According to al-islam.org: "Essentially, the right of divorce is in the hands of the husband." https://www.al-islam.org/media/can-wife-divorce-her-husband. There is a possibility to get around this at the time of marriage of the marriage contract specifically gives this agency to the wife (like a young 15 yo girl told to marry some guy by her father will know this). But even then she must go to scholars for a final decision. So the only 'rights' Islam gives to women are to perform the roles prescribed to her by Islam. Islam is not the progressive faith your post would make it out to be.
-
-
-
He Who Breathes
Yes, but that is the past - as you say. It is different now.
Christianity has changed, adapted for the modern times.
Iscam has not, and is unable to.
-
Keith Graham Ainsworth
Christianity's 'adaption' has mainly been acieved by moving further from Christ's teaching and towards fascism. Islam's changes have primarily been a result of 'Christian' attacks
-
Russel A. Kester
Keith, what you said is not true. Christianity has changed very much over the centuries in its various forms. Islam cannot change because it believes the Koran was divinely dictated to its prophet and there is a copy of it in heaven. There is no room for change. One knows this as it claims that its prophet is the last prophet EVER. Therefore, its past, present, and future hold to the same violent beliefs. And its adherents do such abominable acts because they, mistakenly, it what their God wants. I'll not abide your attempts at gaslighting with such lies.
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
Actually, those attacks came because the Moslems were attacking and ransacking Jerusalem and killing the faithful who refused to recognize Mohammad. The Crusades were the Christian world's attempts to salvage the banking system set up by the Knights Templar, and maintain the steady flow of riches from the region to Europe's kings.
-
-
Russel A. Kester
Farajallah, why do you have to go back to crusades that happened What 1500 years ago maybe a thousand years ago in order to try to make some point that Christianity too is violent. I am speaking of what Islam is doing today. Witness the incident in Russia just recently. Witness what happened in San Bernardino. Witness what happened in the army with the psychologist who shot fellow soldiers. Look at all of the killings that have been done by Islam today not a thousand years ago in the past. Again you are trying to gaslight people into thinking there is a conflation between the two religions. There is not. One is based on love and the other is based on violence and submission to its absurd beliefs.
-
-
Steven Ferrell
If you are referring to the crusades, do an in-depth study and you will find they started because of Islam push to take over the world.
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
read my previous reply...
-
-
Darrell Hebert
interesting comments.
lets do an experiment:
100 muslims pray, sing and pass out quarans in NYC, London, Paris. lets see what happens.
100 Christians pray sing and pass out bibles in Gaza City, Tehran, Kabul, Bagdad lets see what happens...
that will tell us everything right?
-
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Actually, 100 Christians Pray, Sing, and pass out bibles in Gaza, and the people in Gaza will ask them if they have food instead, because you can't eat paper.
100 Christians pray, sing, and pass out bibles in Bagdad, people will look at them funny but ignore them.
100 Christians pray, sing, and pass out bibles in Dubai, which is ALSO an Islamic city, and people will again look at them funny and ignore them.
100 Muslims pray, sing and pass out qurans in NYC, or in Texas, and it's likely a bunch of American red necks will SHOOT them "In the name of God"
-
Russel A. Kester
Not even close to true, Bridget.
-
-
-
-
Robert James Ruhnke
Christianity is no better in that regard. It’s the same religion that is only separated by focus and culture. Otherwise both worship the same fire daemon. Study both without biased lenses and then you’ll see.
-
ServantOfJudgement
On the contrary Robert. You'll have no trouble finding an Islamic nation that executes christians. No trouble at all.
You'll have plenty of beheading videos to rummage through with your family. You can find photographs of women with crucifixes pounded into their mouths. The islamists are always finding fun and exciting ways to execute unbelievers, they're very creative.
Conversely, I don't have that much luck when searching for the christian version of islam's philosophy other than food banks and hospitals. Sometimes you can catch some very nasty Christians with sweaters and dress shoes praying near abortion clinics though.
-
Robert James Ruhnke
The persecution of Christians by the Islamic State involves the systematic mass murder of Christian minorities, within the regions of Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Libya controlled by the Islamic terrorist group Islamic State are the major offenders. Everywhere else is different. We’ve also seen persecution of Muslim minorities in non Christian majority nations too.
Persecution of Christian minorities climaxed following the Syrian civil war and later by its spillover. It’s happened, happens, but only because the US armed them to keep our warring empire a float. Christian fundamentalists have been funding Muslim terrorists to take advantage of the chaos.
Torture doesn’t really require much thought or creativity to do it, it’s why Christians such as yourself are so manipulative. You can find evidence of all human debauchery and evil. Christians have a 2000 year history of murder, torture, rape, genocide. You lot are not the lambs you try to paint yourself as. I’m not blind to the problem that mass religion has. It doesn’t matter if it’s Christianity or Islam, they’re both problems and hassles to non believers. You’re both capable of great depths of depravity and horror. You being blind or willfully ignorant of that doesn’t change the actual facts surrounding the problem.
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
Paul stood and held everyone's jackets while they stoned the Apostle Stephen, making him the second martyr for the Christian faith (after Jesus, of course). So it's not the Moslems that started that form of executions, but rather the Jews before the Roman Empire took over Europe. The five pillars of Islam, if you will read the Torah and the Pentateuch parts of the New Testament, are nearly identical, including "halal" and "kosher" traditions.
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
Paul stood and held everyone's jackets while they stoned the Apostle Stephen, making him the second martyr for the Christian faith (after Jesus, of course). So it's not the Moslems that started that form of executions, but rather the Jews before the Roman Empire took over Europe. The five pillars of Islam, if you will read the Torah and the Pentateuch parts of the New Testament, are nearly identical, including "halal" and "kosher" traditions.
-
-
-
-
Kathy Crosby
We can all coexist with each other. Be like Jesus. Love and kindness wins every time.
-
ServantOfJudgement
In Dearborn Michigan the Muslims are chanting Death to America.
Not sure about you but I'm American....
-
He Who Breathes
Yes... until, oops! They cut off your head...
-
-
Thomas Edwin Peterson
IMO I can get along with anyone who isn't pushing anything on me or mine. But once they think they can I'll never play their games. Being ordained doesn't mean I need to push anything on you either. Let's get along and we'll be fine. If not I've always been prepared if need be. I'd prefer to let Karma have you than me have to put you in your place. Regards.
-
Farajallah Michael Yazbek
Well said. We have so many teaching opportunities when we see them, but too often we negate the teachings of others and the feelings of faith that accompany those beliefs. By showing the common core of the faith of all who worship the God of Abraham we bring peace. It is through understanding, and ADDING to the teachings of the Moslem faith through education and understanding that we are able to bring Christ into their lives more abundantly than they admit to having. We show them just how Jewish the Moslem faith is and they often change their ideas about Israel and the Jews. It is through the comparison and finding the same tenets in all three religions that we find the truth, and are able to bring it to the other faiths who don't follow the teachings the way Jesus presented them, and are able to bring true Christian living to the world. The Moslems recognize Jesus as a prophet. We must use his prophecies in our teachings of him to bring the Moslems back into the Christian mansion without the blasphemies installed by the Devil after Mohammad, who is simply referred to as the PROPHET, not their savior, and is sainted. There are saints in every major religion in the world. Doesn't that sound like it's possible? Of course it does. And there will be many more saints to come as time passes by. The true faith is NOT finished increasing in numbers. But both sides MUST agree that true faith in the God of Abraham is the key to peace.
-
If we spent the same amount of time learning about each other instead of hating, we could change everything. We are all humans and we need to change a few things. Ultimately, the only thing keeping us apart is a desire to be right.