Can a Christian Website Designer Turn Away Gay Clients? Supreme Court to Decide

Jason Matthew Watson

Interesting use of the “art” angle. As someone who schooled in art I found that producing it is free and expressive. But these people have entered into another sort of religion: capitalism with consumers as their congregation. As soon as your art is the way you make money you then work for whomever hires you. Does one turn away a client? Maybe suggest someone better suited. I also try to look at it from the client’s side: do you want someone opposed to you doing the job for you?

Cultural climate is changing and it takes time to weed out old prejudices (the article mentions opposition to interracial marriage in this decade?!). We are in that tumultuous time now. Things change, will change. My biggest issue is that people quote scripture of what’s wrong or right without having read verses preceding and proceeding what fits their chosen belief. If they were attuned to all they’d see their own lives and particularly how they conduct business also defies their chosen faith

rebadams7

I work off one principal - no artist, no matter the medium, shall be forced to accept any commision. If the cake is in the case, it should be sold to anyone, if it's a fill in the blank website - open to all. If you want to consult with the artist - in any medium - they get to accept or decline the comission. Period

rebadams7

I work off one principal - no artist, no matter the medium, shall be forced to accept any commision. If the cake is in the case, it should be sold to anyone, if it's a fill in the blank website - open to all. If you want to consult with the artist - in any medium - they get to accept or decline the comission. Period

Leona Weisenbach

I'm not going to make it long. So all I have to say is .. Christian use the Bible to control and hate others. And Christians wonder why they are hated so much....I'm sure if they walked into a place and was told they will not service you because your religion has committed a genocide on Pagan people.....

Diane Minna LaFave

If it's a corporation then you shouldn't have the Right to reuse service. If it is a personal business then you should have the Right to refuse as long as it's not discrimination according to those laws. In this case she is claiming it's against her religion . Because the Government CAN NOT interfere with religion she has the Right to refuse service.

Eileen M. Wright

Y did I just read about divorce on a post about a website just fyi if you're being abused its biblically acceptable to get a divorce also n remarry if you choose Its a pretty website for love off we discriminate against who can love we fail god

Eileen M. Wright

Huh I just read jesus hates divorce I thought this was about a cake n ya if you are being abused divorce is allowed also like what smh

Keith Allen Steele Eash

and that is where you are wrong. I would not serve anyone who sees me as their enemy and they are hell bent on destroying my country's religious and cultural values. Screw that. Hijab or not it will come in handy for them in the next toilet paper shortage.

Jenni Lovsey

Either serve EVERYONE or do NOT be in business!!! You do NOT get a free pass to discriminate against certain groups based on your "religious beliefs"!

Susan Kay Dalluhn

Any one that hides behind God to show their ignorance is not a Christian but they do need help from God.

Richard Lee Cornell

Your point is what. That I must design a web site for you then I will charge you a huge price. It is against my will and is giving me stress and only by charging you that huge price will make me feel that I'm worthy of designing your web site.

Pastor Ken

We believers need to stand up for our Faith in the only true God. God Bless us all.!

Pastor Ken

We need believers to stand up for our Faith in anyway shape or form. God Bless you with wisdom. In Jesus name

Tom

The number of people who are talking about a bakery when this is about a website developer has me laughing so hard.

Requiring businesses to provide the same services to people of color as they did white people helped to bridge the gap of inequality during the civil rights movement. I would hope that no one here would say that doing so was a bad thing. How different is it to deny someone the same services they provide to a straight person simply because they are gay?

If someone can deny designing a website for a gay person, what would stop a realtor from refusing to sell a home to a gay person? By doing so that community could effectively deny homosexuals from living in their city, even of that person had grown up there. While this example may fit the definition of a slippery-slope fallacy, it’s also been proposed by homophobic organizations in response to these cases around bakers, florists, and website designers.

We should be promoting love not hate and bigotry against those we don’t understand.

Timothy Lee Stewart

My question is, If you have ill feelings towards a business for not granting you service... Why would you want to force them to do so, if you're not planning on using them anyway? There are so many more ministries out there that would be happy to perform the wedding of your dreams without all the added stress. I get it!! You want to prove a point and show the world they need to change their attitude towards the Gay/LGBTQ community.... They aren't Gay/LGBTQ either.... So shouldn't they be taking them to court and force them to be that way as well!? The answer is no of course not! Just as you have free will, so do they. Be you and Strive for the Happier way that pleases You. It would be different if there was a law that said ministering was only legal and binding by a heterosexual Christian ministry..... Um Hello!?

Amber Fry

These businesses are private businesses. They should have the freedom to decide who they want to provide a service to. They just need to understand and accept that it also comes with a societal response. If they decide to bar same sex marriages then they risk boycotts. Their business. Their choice.

Renae Lynn Hagen

That goes against freedom of religion and against god by judging others.. you can't have it both ways. Either you are Christian and don't judge others or not.. the supreme court ruled against one of the 10 commandments.. if that were the case I guess the baker better prepare on going to hell.. if u going to bible bang.. go in 100% not half assed.

Karen Robinson-West

As a Christian I agreed with her in that. I will not perform a marriage to any same sex couple. If it goes against the word of God because God made man in his image and gave Adam Eve to procreate and replenish the earth. Homosexuality is not Biblically correct. Just like everything else in this world, people have taken scriptures to suit their needs to say homosexuality, being transgender, and racism is okay in the sight of God. None of those is okay. As for Mississippi with the interracial couple, the first interracial couple was Moses and his wife Zipporah, a Midianite. Then Solomon and the Queen of Sheba another interracial couple in the Bible. I will marry an interracial couple but never same sex.

Robert N Clarkson

Merchants who profess to be Christian, but discriminate in whom they will serve in their business are not following the teachings of the faith.

Doesn’t scripture say Jesus healed the Roman's daughter? Didn’t Jesus preach for us to act towards all others as we want to be treated by them, equally, with tolerance, acceptance, and love?

Yes, hate the activity but not the person. Jesus was criticized for associating with prostitutes, tax collectors, and criminals. His answer to this was he came to heal the sick, not the well!

By our works and deeds we expose our true beliefs.

Michael Barton

As long as you don't qualify for a "public place" you should be in the clear. Not all businesses should be forced to be "public places" like restaurants. And even then you should have the right to freedom of speech, religion, and everything else in the Constitution.

The civil rights acts were noble, but have proven to be against the Constitution. It should be refactored. Behavior (same sex, sex) discrimination should be allowed or discrimination with cause should be allowed. But not if you're the only restaurant or hotel in town. There are gray areas that the law needs to be updated to handle. You have a right to be in business, and choose who you do business with (within reason).

Mistydawn Elizabeth Carter

Some people seem confused as to what the woman is selling. She is not a baker. She is a website designer. Now in my opinion, let her shoot herself in the foot. If she doesn't want to make wedding websites for same-sex or transcouples, she shouldn't have to. As a pagan I wouldn't force her to choose between her faith and her work. As a human being I wouldn't trust her work. If she is already putting caveats on her work how good is she? Now the baker. He never said he wouldn't sell to the gay couple. He said he wouldn't make a certain type of cake for their wedding. He let them know of cakes he had decorated that were in the display cases and even told them of other businesses that would accept their business. If this couple would have left the review and used someone else the free market would have taken care of this. However, everyone has the right to refuse to work for someone else. Otherwise it's forced labor.

Ronaldo

Government agencies and monopolies should not be able to deny anyone service due to who they are, but any business that has competition should not be held to that standard. It would be a sad state of affairs if a state agency decided not to issue driver's licenses to gays, or women, or Blacks, or if the local water or electric company decided to cherry-pick their clientele based on race, sex, or gender orientation. On the other hand, if a hairdresser is only good with White people's hair, and there is a boutique down the street that caters to Blacks, why should either be forced to offer services to the other race? Free market can make some of the business decisions for companies. If a bar, for example, denies all entrance to Whites, but a bar down the street does not, then all the racially mixed groups will go to the latter, as would all the Whites. It would be likely that the first bar would eventually go under or change its policies to attract more business. This, of course, is assuming no one will cry racism and sue the bar.

Ronald Odom

"Interestingly, this is all preemptive – no same-sex couples have approached Smith about creating a wedding website.

She wanted to expand into the wedding website space, with a disclaimer on her website that wedding-related services would only be available to heterosexual couples. She feared running afoul of the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, so she preemptively filed a legal challenge." --From the article.

She is asking to put up a sign the equal to "No Blacks Allowed." This is a slippey slope if allowed. I know some will not see that. The rule of law applys to all as per the letter of that law. People beloing to hate groups will start to use it is my religion to spread that hate. case in point, the "The Curse of ham". It was used to justify black slavery as a right.

Pedro Pagan Jr

Should a Christian be forced to do what is sin in God eye? Should a person be forced to do what is unpleasant to them? Should a person be forced to go against their will or Conscience Conscience?

Ryan R. Shaw

It's her misguided self-righteous time in the spotlight; she 'doth protest too much'. And why would anyone shop where they're not welcome? My husband and I are in our early 70's and love to travel, both domestic and abroad. We still ask when renting homes, cabins, apartments if a gay couple will feel comfortable/welcome in their rental. Once we were told we would NOT feel comfortable there, we replied, "Thank you for your honesty" and found an even better rental elsewhere.

Nicholas J Page

The web designer is out of order for refusing baked goods for gay couples .This is the 21st century gay or straight or transgender. Everyone has a human right to what they want or need in life. I would say to any couple coming from a Heterosexual male Minister go and find another business maybe they will learn not to discriminate against people. God Bless you all.

Matthew Mastrogiovanni

First off, I don't want someone who hates me to do anything for me. I also wouldn't want to support such a person.

Their God, their Prince of Peace, says to love your neighbor and to not judge others.
But Christians hate sooo many people and are super judgey.

When can we declare Christians a hate group?

Rev Mark D

Ok, so she makes the cake, but then maybe she spits in it.

Rev. Howard Slayton

Yep they sure can turn them away! It’s called the right to refuse service. It’s legal in a free country like These United States 🇺🇸 of America!

Rev Mark D

If no one has actually tried to get their website made and been denied, can't the SC just punt again based on no one ever having been so damaged?

Rev. Elizabeth

Whatever happened to the freedom to one who decides whether they want to do that job or not? I was raised that I had the right to accept or deny what enters my life. It is in the Christian Bible that Homosexuality is a sin. This (or these) individuals are denied based on the Christian belief of the bakery. Why can’t that be accepted as much as the right of the same sex request? I want you, but I don’t want to do for you. Who wins? Since it is a business of the individual who refused, no matter their reason for refusing, they have a right to say no. You go into a flooring business and settle on a type of floor you want installed. Their policy is to check where the flooring will be done before the job will or will not be done. It’s that floorings business to run it that way. They don’t want the job. No matter their reason, they don’t want to do the job. In life we can use our religious belief to not do something, to take more time away from our job for prayer, to have a long lunch time for prayer. Not all are allowed to do this but these people, their religion calls for time of prayer and they can. Why can’t that be applied to all people? It can but the company has the right to say no, you are not that religion so you don’t get that extra time. People who smoke get extra breaks to have a cigarette. Why can’t the non-smokers have that choice. Well they can, they can stand where the smokers stand. I personally pass on that, but I have seen nonsmokers go up with a smoker but stand far away from them so they don’t breath second had smoke. Nothing can me done. Why? The company didn’t state either or in their policy. They do now, but they didn’t.

So this person wants a cake made a certain way, this company says no. So instead of going to other bakers, they take them to court. Their company has the right to deny any customer for their own reason. This is the right of businesses. Go find a bakery who will. This individual wants to be heard and be famous for making someone do something they don’t want to do. The judges need to look at this carefully. The individual has a right to ask and the company has the right to say no. Asking, answering. How simple is that? Wow.

Clay Serenbetz

Why would anyone want to patronize a business where the proprietors hate you?

Kat Strid

If somebody doesn't want to help me then all that's happening is they're losing out on money I'll go find somebody who will help me who I feel comfortable with I like to say things like what would that business do it Jesus was with the customers I'm going to do the wedding for them would they help them now KAT

Douglas Robert Spindler

Why would Christian business owners turn away business and be unchristian to their fellow man? If they would read their Bible they would know this is something Jesus would not have done or encouraged.

Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls

Judge not lest ye be judged.All has to answer for the deeds we lived on this earth?It won't be any man or woman doing the judgement on that day.

Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.

Website design is art, not religion. If the website designer is not inspired by the client's request, their mockup graphic will not pass the client's standards, and the client will reject the job. She can say: "My skills do not include what you need."

Minister Wilson

Hello Members,

I have thought about this question for some time, and it is difficult, but in many ways, it is essential. I should not be forced to bake a cake depicting a person hanging or a Jew being burned because I should have the right to be a conscientious observer.

However, most people usually base these conscientious objections on disgust or personal dismay with a particular idea (Lent & Lopez, 2002). Of that, we can agree...

Yet, all “rights” are subject to be constrained within the context of societal norms and changes; for example, blacks were not served at restaurants, or they had to ride in the back of the bus. And as a society, we decided that these active discriminatory behaviors were not conducive to the society we were attempting to create.

While it is reasonable to conclude that “hate groups” or organizations affiliated with hate and racism should receive public condemnation and repudiation, the same cannot be said regarding homosexuality. Homosexuality is not an attempt to hurt or discriminate against others; in other words, a person’s sexual orientation should not be considered an active affront to a religion...

So then let’s conclude based on this rationale that

Hate = activate, and Not Hate = passive

So, according to this logic, some of these Christians appear to be purposing; is that they should have the “religious freedom.” to actively discriminate against “passive” members of society because they are insulted.

We have the right to refuse service for any reason except if that right is based on discrimination of a protected class, which arbitrarily causes harm, and very little in the way of public good comes from it...

So, the question is, should religious freedoms have certain limitations. I think they should, and they do.

We charge people with child abuse when they forego medical treatment based on religion, we routinely charge people for killing their “born children” because God told them to, we stop the Pakistani religious father from “honor killing” his daughter because she went on a date, etc...So harm and the notion of the public good are the underlying rationales for non-discrimination laws, as it seems.

What Christians are attempting to codify into law is that they should have the inalienable right to discriminate against people who are attracted to the same sex because God said it was terrible...

Where does that end? Perhaps I don’t want to serve Christians because they lie and are delusional, or maybe I don’t wish to serve blacks or jews because they are heathens or disreputable people, etc..etc...

It seems that we have been down this road before.The bible is directly attributable for these issues all throughout time.

If we should not discriminate against sex, then, sexual orientation should also be protected.

How do we know what a strongly held belief constitutes?

And this country is not based on a Christian theocracy, even though so many Christians want that to be the case. So, unless or until we can legally discriminate against Christians by not allowing them to shop in certain areas or go to the movies, religion should not be referred to as an “active public right” to harm and discriminate against others based on their religious views.

If that be the case then there is no problem with a resturant saying we dont serve police, or Republicans here, and I think most would agree that those actions and rationale would be wrong..as well

Those are my thoughts,

Minister Wilson

Lawrence Albert Taylor II

If you're running a business to make money you do not turn away anyone. One of those people you turned away may have had strong connections to take the business to the next level. Plus with social media as instant news business owner that refuses to serve a customer for religious reasons won't be in business for long

Gary Young

They can do whatever they please, however, it reflects sadly on them and their intolerance. You dislike gay people? Then you are insecure about your own sexuality and probably in the closet. Also, didn't Jesus come for sinners?

Pedro Pagan Jr

In this It would be what courts decide. My question would be, are there any Gay vendors and why not go to them ? Or Is it that they want to make a statement! Just like in Church, why go to a church that their God hates sin and Homosexuality. There is in Greek mythology Homosexual god or gods,, why not open a church? That have the same belief.

Lionheart

I can’t see SCOTUS approving that. If they did, the flood gates would be open for all store owners to only sell to their own kind if they wanted to.

Or even worse, websites like Twitter, or Facebook, might start banning people from their right to disagree with their own ideologies, and ban them. Oh……I guess they do 🤷🏼

🦁❤️

Krystina S.

Providing goods or services for people who may not follow your "beliefs" does not constitute Supporting their whatever. If I were to go to Chick Fil A, they would sell me a sandwich-- EVEN if I had a Wiccan or Jewish or Democratic (party) or Pro-Choice sticker on my car. Even if I wore the hijjab. They are stupid and close-minded and conflate commerce with religious purity tests. Shame on them!!!