The US House of Representatives has passed the Equality Act, a new piece of civil rights legislation that would protect LGBTQ+ people from discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity.
The bill still must survive an uphill battle in the Senate, so there's no guarantee it will become law. But that hasn't prevented a passionate debate between supporters of LGBTQ rights and religious freedom advocates.
Backers of the bill argue that basic protections for groups that have been historically discriminated against are a no brainer. We've passed similar laws regarding race and religion, so why not include sex and gender?
But opponents of the legislation insist it would erode religious freedom by forcing people of faith to compromise on their beliefs, and face threats of legal action if they refuse.
Debate Turns Ugly
One of the staunchest opponents of the Equality Act is Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has called it an "attack on God's creation" and drew outrage by putting up a sign outside her office that declares “There are TWO Genders: MALE & FEMALE. Trust the Science!”
In response to such remarks, Rep. Al Green delivered an impassioned speech in defense of equality on the House floor that ended up going viral:
"God created every person in this room. Did God make a mistake? ...You used god to enslave my foreparents. You used god to segregate me in schools. You used god to put me in the back of the bus - Have you no shame?"
Using Faith as a Shield?
Critics of the religious freedom argument insist that it's simply a convenient excuse to continue discriminating against the LGBTQ community. They argue that if religion is going to be part of the debate, then it cannot be taken at face value that bigotry is endorsed by the Bible.
If we are all God's children, then surely that includes gay and transgender folks, they point out. So, why don’t we treat them with dignity?
This argument brings to mind the now-infamous case of a Colorado baker who was sued after refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple, and later for a transgender person. Do a person's religious views allow them to legally discriminate against an LGBTQ customer?
Under current law, such discrimination is legal in some cases. If the Equality Act becomes law, that would be strictly prohibited.
Fairness in Sports
Another key point of disagreement involves how transgender students can compete in sports – opponents say allowing transgender girls to compete in female sports gives them an unfair advantage.
States such as Utah have advanced bills forcing transgender youth to compete against their birth gender, rather than the gender they identify as currently.
The Equality Act would presumably prevent such discrimination. But Utah governor Spencer Cox surprised many by calling for grace and understanding for transgender children, signaling that he won’t sign the bill as it stands into law.
Getting teary-eyed as he spoke, Gov. Cox explained:
“These kids are just trying to stay alive... I hope there will be enough grace in our state to find a better solution. I don’t understand all of this. I don’t. But I’m trying to understand more. I’m trying to listen and learn and, again, trying to help kids figure out who they are and keep them alive.”
Acceptance Coming?
Regardless of what happens with the Equality Act, LGBTQ acceptance has been making progress in religious circles.
Both the Episcopal Church and the Presbyterian Church allow transgender ministers, and last year Pope Francis told parents of LGBTQ children that “God loves your children as they are.”
Still, there are holdouts. For example, 39% of Christians surveyed say that society has gone too far in accepting transgender people. The debate is clearly far from over.
What do you think? What role does religion play in the battle for LGBTQ rights?
114 comments
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Angel
It's very simple...basic human respect. You can have different beliefs and still respect other human beings reguardless of their differances. If people would worry more about their own lives and stop trying to control other people's lives, and give each other a little respect as fellow human beings, this world would be a much better place to live. I have no illusions of everyone haolding hands singing"we are he world" but respect can be as simple as letting other people be and compromising on the things that have serious effects on others in society. You want your freedom, yet it comes with a price, and that price is other's having their freedom as well.
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Angel
It's very simple, you can live and believe as you wish and they should be able to live and believe as they wish. It's not about beliefs, it's about simple respect for one another reguardless of those beliefs. If people spent more showing respect to other human beings, this world would be a much better place to live.
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Christian
The bill does not address the rights of synthetic persons : artificial intelligence, or self aware conscious software.
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Richard Lee Cornell
I have been judge again. Does my comments make that much of a sting.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
No, its more then likely they are just more hate speech coming from a far right looney like you. Psst its a secular site, if you speak in an insular way about your faith it will meet with critical judgement.
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John Norris Campbell
Fun Fact!! So when I read the "COXIST" logo on the web site it really only meant "only if you agree with me?" Darn it! I should of read the small print!! Hate speech coming from the far left is perfectly acceptable and under no circumstances ever...EVER>>>mention that guy that all history agrees existed...the man JESUS CHRIST...Yep mention that guy and you are less than pond scum.... yea baby....seems legit.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Oh WAH pwoor baby xtian gonna gwo kwy pwerswecuwutiwon now? Well to the nine hells with you, you insular zealot! As a child of this universe and minister in good standing I call you out as being an enemy of all that we hold to be good and right in creation.
You seek to bend all to your faith, and treat your faith as fact in defiance of reason and what is right. And you call those who challenge that the enemy, and what they do tyranny, just as those told they could not keep black people as slaves any longer cried such.
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John Norris Campbell
Wow! So you admit we are all in a "creation"...and common sense tells us that there must be a Creator...the same Creator that must of built these "Nine Hells" you speak of...however I'm pretty sure that was a Hollywood 'B' movie back in the 90's...seems you treat what you believe to be true as 'fact' and yet other's are ridiculed for their own deeply held convictions....keep on keeping on IImenheru...and you might just want to cut back on those energy drinks...all that caffeine and sugar makes you spell funny...."pwerswecuwutiwon"??
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John Norris Campbell
Ya gotta be politically correct while commenting here...you are in snowflake country and these humans quickly get all melted when confronted with new ideas that have not been presented to the 'collective hive mind' for approval.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Psst hey JNC there is nothing new about archaic story time from ancient goat herders, nor the bigotry and hatred you spew here.
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John Norris Campbell
BIGOT: "a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief. opinion. or faction, ESPECIALLY one who is PREJUDICED against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a paticular group." See that little buddy? I'm holding up a mirror of the person you protray yourself to be here...Shall we pic an avatar for you now?
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Hm you seem to lack reading comprehension as well JNC, as your own post says obstinately or unreasonably.
Being opposed to the forces of fascism and tyranny that the factions you align with so often and eagerly in your posts is not by any stretch of the imagination being unreasonable. It is in fact the duty of every minister here in good standing no matter their specific faith tradition, to oppose any and all forces that seek to strip others of their freedoms.
My checking your privilege by telling you that your specific faith is not something that gives you some moral authority is just bringing you into line and taking away that which you try to wield unjustly. That you keep using your faith to dehumanize others and attack those who are unwilling to submit to you proves you the one in the wrong.
You come into my home and attack me, and then cry foul when I fight back. Typical delusion of persecution you have going on there.
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John Norris Campbell
Your 'checking your privlage" also would like to point out that your specific moral authority (which you still have not identifyed) or even your opinions are completly irrelevant without letting me know exactly what you believe. You claim to be a 'minister in good standing here" Here? You must mean those 9 levels of hell? Which level are you on? ya know...if I'm ever in the negihborhood? Silly rabbit...you come off as a pompous fool full of himself..."My checking your privalge" You cannot even check out my groceries in Wal-Mart.I saw your convo with another person and you actually made sense..I actually gave it a thumbs up. So I'm now thinking you are either several ppl posting under the same name, or, more likely, before and after napp time and before and after your Red Bull...
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Ilmenheru Terikson
nothing unreasonable in my position bud, but you are just pasting the same post over and over now, proving you are indeed just a trash troll unworthy of civility.
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John Norris Campbell
No "pasting" going on here junior...I'm giving you my own special brand of love. Live time.
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John Norris Campbell
absoluty no 'pasting' going on here little buddy...each of my replys are very carefully aimed at each person.
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Kevin Joseph Kervick
Acceptance is of course necessary for all people. The issue here is mental illness. Gender dysphoria is treatable. It often remits on its own without treatment. Fast movement from dysphoria to medical and or psycho-social transition without first treating comorbidities is incompetent practice.
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Anisahoni
Oh come on. Gender dysphoria? Trans are mentally ill? Not so. Put your DSM 5 down and stop trying to speak of things you know nothing about. Armchair therapists are the worst kind. Have seen many of them throughout my career.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And then there are those straight to bed types. I wonder what percentage of the population they make up. They aren't exactly heterosexual, even though they think they are. Then there are the ones who aren't open about their sexual orientations, or only selectively so. And don't forget about the switch hitters who sometimes think they're straight, and sometimes gay. There may be other variations as well, who weren't included in the poll. Suddenly the number jumps much higher than 5.6%. My guess is no less than double that amount.
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John Norris Campbell
In my own personal experience, what some unenlightened ppl might refer to as "switch hitters" are merely ppl that refuse to be identified by labels. Ever been to a 31 flavors? Back in the day you would be offered one of those little spoons to taste what ever your little heart desired. And I had my way with 31 different experiences. Now..shall I be identified by those who just love to pigeonhole other's by their own narrow-mindedness? Do I just love me some chocolate double fudge....or perhaps some rainbow sherbert?? Stay in your own lane...I'll get to you in a minute...btw...have you seen the pistashio mint??? Completly edible.
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Victor Allen Wunschel
5.6% of American population identify as LGBTQ. That is a pretty big number. Whether we agree with the lifestyle or not, we should all agree that treating everyone with respect is the right thing to do, especially because it is difficult to be different. Promoting that lifestyle as normal or preferred is not true, but should not prevent us from serving them with the same fervor as anyone else that needs help, guidance, and/or a positive life example. We are all unique, broken in some ways, wonderful in other ways.
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geKLos9z9gAF4ARlFXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1614833581/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fnews.gallup.com%2fpoll%2f332522%2fpercentage-americans-lgbt.aspx/RK=2/RS=MCd0s277wACO307nrBjcr0_WYmQ-
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Robert A Stiff
Heaven forbid that any law should be passed that would interfere with a religious zealot's right to demonize, hate, isolate, deny and remove any person that might not agree with their particular belief. Christianity's record of bigotry and cruelty is unparalleled.
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John Norris Campbell
lol..At first you were refering to the democratic party here in the states...then I thought..no must be this site...but then we all learn that you believe the RCC is somehow christian...fun fact: more ppl have been left to starve, out right murdered and otherwise oppressed by secular governments in the last 100 years than the past 2000 years combined.
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Mark Kevin Humes
God made male and female period! The Bible condemns Homosexuality Period! That doesn't not mean they should be hated, mistreated, or discriminated against. We are to love each other even if we don't agree. May God Bless us all
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Anisahoni
However, the ULC does not condemn and supports trans rights. We are ULC ministers, what's your excuse. Bye bye. Take your fear and hate elsewhere. You do not belong here.
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Kelly McDowell
1 Corinthians 6:9 As well as the the mention of "men who lie with men" "women who lie with women" "un-natural behavior"
Also from above comments, Sodom did involve homosexuality, the Sodomites wanted to take the "messengers" for sexual purposes.
And science does include A-sexual animals and animals that practice mating with same sex.
Having said that, each human is entitled to their beliefs. Each human should respect that. If a baker turns you down, there are other bakers...accept, move on, enjoy your wedding! If a person wants to do things to their body that's up to them. Do what you like with yours.
We can all have that urge towards faith. When we die, we'll find out what happens. In the meantime, the moment we say we believe in something with strict determination, we reject everyone else's beliefs. And it does seem hard for us humans to accept and respect, thus all many wars in the name of religion.
I believe there is a Creator. I believe the Creator cares for all creation. Let's do the same.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
Thank you for the qualification "in the NAME of religion."
Wars are caused by people who do cannot accept "no" for an answer. They use religion to justify their actions, but religion is not the source of their impulse. Their impulses arise from three billion years of Darwinian evolution.
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Amy Varela
Until someone can prove the bible to be a factual historical document, nothing in it should be referenced to make any laws or policies in the United States. The Constitution is the only thing that matters, not the bible or the quran or any other religious text. To use the bible as a moral compass is ridiculous. It contains enough God-approved immorality that it should never be used to dictate morality. Stoning your children to death for being disobedient, Lot's daughters having sex with him, asking Jesus about stoning a woman for adultery BUT NOT THE MAN with whom she was "caught in the very act"? Just a few of the examples of immorality in the bible. Disgusting and disgraceful is what it is. The few times Jesus actually said something decent are completely over-shadowed by the racism, hate and misogyny that defines all of the Abrahamic religions.
"Liberty and Justice for all" is what we pledge, notwithstanding the bit about "under god" that was added by cowards. If the laws of the land do not provide liberty and justice for ALL, then we have failed as a nation.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
Amy, I understand your intentions, but the lesson of Jesus' ministry was: "You were given the power to reason, and you made your laws to prevent wrong. Those laws have been turned against you by your kings. Choose love instead, and live." If the Trump Administration isn't proof of this wisdom, I don't know what is.
The Bible is the record of humanity's qualification to receive the power of Unconditional Love. Love knows no rules, only infinite possibility. No set of laws can ever accommodate that plenitude, and so every law will be abused by the privileged.
Finally, slavery existed before religion, as did violence, rape, infanticide, and greed. These all exist in the animal kingdom. The Bible is not a record of our fall from perfection; it is the record of our labored ascent into grace.
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Amber Fry
I would say simply trusting isn't nearly enough. Understanding it is important. She clearly doesn't. She should butt out.
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John Norris Campbell
Romans 1:26 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men committing what is shameful, and recieving in themselves the penality of their error which was do." I recommend reading this entire chapter in context...maybe the 'shameful acts' commited by the men was burning the steaks on the bbq?
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Anisahoni
OMG men who are homophobic, must beat themselves with whips after they satisfy themselves. They are overfocused on gay male sexuality. Maybe they are really living in the closet just dying to come out. Poor little boys.
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John Norris Campbell
I provide scripture and you provide insults. What book do you follow? Or do you just follow base sexual desires? I did that for a long time, choosing to surround myself with only bisexual men and women, two of whom I married and had kids with.
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Anisahoni
Do you not realize that your scriptures from a book of mythical stories has little meaning for secular ministers? Do you not realize that the ULC supports human rights for everyone, including gay and trans rights? You "providing scripture" as you say only makes you feel better about your failures in life. So you can thump and thump away. Why do you care about anyone's "base sexual desires"? You are kidding right? Don't you have anything else better to do? I have been happily married to my husband for 45 years. I don't need a book to inform me how to be a loving human being. From your words, that book has done little to help you evolve spiritually.
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John Norris Campbell
Beautiful!! So you actually admitt--from one minister to another---you have no base or "source of authority" I find you a very brave person to totally blow off all the years of wisdom of the ppl that came b4 us....BTW....I've had some regrets about my past but actually no condemnation about my life choices. I am not "thumping" away at anything but only have been blessed to be an observer of the collarteral damage caused by humans making un-wise choices...My Book of "mythical" stories have also came equipped with 100% accurate prophecies dating back to 750 BC...ABOUT what is going on in our world RIGHT NOW....One cannot make light of the facts that what was prophisied by the O.T. Prophets from the 700's BC to now have been 100% correct....THAT'S a pretty good track record...not just coincidence...Look at your 'News' Feed today and I can promise you that this subject has ALREADY been covered in the BIBLE....DOUBT ME??? Well ya should---For all you know I'm just a "sexually frustrated wannbe homo" LOL!! BEEN THERE AND GOT THE T-SHIRT!!! LOL...I appauld ya'lls dedication to each other! Truly! I only use this format or AKA 'blog' to share what I've found to be the path to this realm's happiness.
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Anisahoni
Wow, honey, you sound really angry and full of rage. Perhaps you should take a chlll pill, take a cold shower, go swimming, listen to music or take a nap. Why are you here? We are secular ministers, not bible thumpers. So take your white rage elsewhere. BTW the Book I love, is one you might like: "Rev. Ike's Secrets For Health, Joy and Prosperity, For YOU: A Science Of Living Study Guide". It might just bring you love and joy in your life. You can also watch his inspirational teachings/sermons on YouTube. Good luck with your spiritual evolution.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
There is no point even trying to engage this genuinely twisted and evil soul in a civil manner Catherine. It is more then clear at this point he is one of those far right evangelicals here to spew vile bile.
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Anisahoni
Yes, maybe he will look into the book I referenced. Maybe not. I still cannot understand how these trolls gain access here. They are so boring, ignorant, closed minded, white raging types. Like some of the ULC ordained ministers on the minister's site too. Just awful, but sometimes it's fun to poke them a bit.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
Only one has the authority to judge. Paul was not Christ - he was an amalgam of Hebrew and Roman culture, not their synthesis.
We are subject to two powerful urges that cause us to consider ourselves before others: survival and sex. Jesus redeemed the first on the Cross. In the Book of Revelation, the final chapter in humanity's redemption is to turn sex to the service of Love. The second is a far harder task: ask someone "Do you want to die?" and most will exclaim "No!" Ask them "Do you want to never have sex?" and they will roll their eyes and muse about your sanity.
Love is what makes things sacred. Without it, everything is profane.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Plain and simple, so-called St.Paul was a closet queen.
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Anisahoni
And he was a liar and considered to be crazy by his own brother.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And that's exactly how we judge you, flugo, in the name of Jesus, because your god told us that you're an evildoer, who feigns attention.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Actually Brian, seeing as a true christian will never speak out in conflict nor contest, and if presented with a threat would pray for their killer and forgive them rather then speak a word in protest, as all that may come to them is the will of their god, and they must submit to that will in all ways, I doubt they would say even "No!"
As for your second point. Sex isnt something so hard to control ones urges of, all it takes is being a person with self restraint in general. Simply choosing to not sleep with someone you do not know fairly well is a pretty moderate standard I use and encourage in others, simply as a matter of practical safety. That isnt celibacy, it is just having some standard to help avoid needless risk.
The fact california is trying to pass laws to deal with men "Stealthing" because that is apparently a thing now, shows how wary women especially need to remain with men they should not be so trusting of.
My rule is basically dont let someone into your bed you do not trust with your life, because that is when we are at our most vulnerable.
Powerful urges, I have a powerful urge to smite every red hat wearing pos I see, but I stay my hand. Funny how men always talk about powerful urges and being unable to control themselves only when it comes to smaller easily assaulted women.
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flugo
'bekaeebe': 'Only one has the authority to judge.' Huh?! If you're suggesting thai 'one' is God Himself, you're wrong!
In John 7:24, Jesus said to judge and in Luke 17:13 we're told to rebuke. In numerous incidents Jesus, as our example, reprimanded, discerned and judged the hypocrites and evildoers.
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John P Maher
RIGHT ON FLUGO !
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I bet if all ULC Ministers had one of those ball caps, and wore it in public wherever we went we'd meet a ND become acquainted with a lot of other ULC Ministers, instead of only associating on these blogs. There are many thousands of us, and surely more in the town's and cities where we live than we know about. And they don't cost much. And that's also a good way to make a donation. And while scrolling down the pages on your way to that cap (which is adjustable, with a Velcro strap in the back) you might come across something else you can use or need in your ministry.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
The thing you might not understand carl is we are not all part of one group. the ULC is an umbrella. But it doesnt make you and I inherently akin in our ideas of faith and the traditions we practice. Nor do we all minister the same or counsel the same. I for example actively counsel against pretty much all the archaic marriage traditions and notions of a womans place as one of submission. In my area of NV there are many ordained under the ULC, and a great many practice very traditional christian type operations because that is what earns the best out here in rural redneck land.
I do not define myself as a minister of the ULC but as a mystic and shaman of the Strong Nuclear Force that binds all of creation together with the Unified Particle Field.
Our strength is in being spread far and operating independently Carl. Much like the special forces in the army, we are best used by not congregating, but by spreading out and teaching. To help others live safer, healthier, happier lives worth living.
The Green Beret are not the most feared force in the U.S. military around the globe because they are the best in combat ops, they are the most feared because they are trained to train others. Because 1 of them in a village will turn it into a military operation.
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Stanley Alan Marchand
The Minister's ball cap very nice Mr Elfstrom
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flugo
'All God's Children?!' Nope! All God's 'created' children might be a better clarification.
In contrast, some people by their lifestyle have NOT God as their father, but are children of the devil! John 8:44
I tire of all this 'God loves everybody'; inclusivity; and situational ethics, crap!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Atleast we know that you aren't one of God's children flugo, you old dog. Your thinking is much too old for you to be considered anyone's child. And you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Let me hear a big now wow to that, flugo. Then roll over and play dead. I'll toss you a big bone for that, shaped like a crucifix.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
So stay out of a secular non denominational ministry sites forums then Flugo. Its not like you actually are a member here, or of the human race for that matter. And probably get out of the U.S. to as it is a nation founded on secular ideals( the freedom of religion ends the moment a faith tradition drifts into insular attitudes and espouses ideals contrary that secular ideal) but then again you are the poster that said you would rape your own sister if you didnt believe in god telling you it was wrong. Still not sure why you ever thought that was some grand point to make to defend your insane attitudes.
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Stanley Alan Marchand
Flugo I think you should look at proverbs 13: 3 . Truly I mean this to be helpful.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
You are right about John, but wrong about God. Read the book of Job: God instructs the devil that humanity, once having known love, will be faithful to it. He seeks to redeem the Prince of Lies. This is the message reiterated by Jesus in the parables of the Prodigal Son and the lost sheep.
Unconditional Love loves unconditionally. Every person who falls and is redeemed blazes a trail in human nature that others can follow to Love.
Only one has the right to judge, and if you are not that one, you should not condemn others.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm really excited! My order from the aULC Ministers store arrived less than an hour ago (in perfect condition). Probably unlike most ministers, instead of ordering all these supplies (and a lot more to come, as I can afford) at the start of my ministry, I waited a few years throughout most of which I've only been an active contributor on this blog. I think that's helped me learn the ropes around here, both in ministerial skill for an interfaith ministry, and more to the point, a true practitioner of the way of Universal Life Church, which is all inclusive of all our brothers and sisters, who are all children of the same universe. I'm not into ministering to people in accordance with my beliefs (which are vast, and contain parts of numerous belief systems), but am am mostly interested in providing spiritual counseling in accordance with their beliefs. And I never preach. I've also taken counseling and other courses designed for helping others, which I'm sure will greatly benefit me in this endeavor. It also helps to not be prejudiced. And I have spent a lot of time associating with all kinds of people, from many different ways of life, including members of every aspect of the LGBTQ+ Community, and have always concluded that we are all the same, deserving of all the same rights, and all the same treatment. And I will always fight for those rights. I am now proudly wearing my new ULC Ministers cap, am eagerly looking forward to showing off my new ULC Ministers wallet size credential, and my new ULC Clergy badge (I suppose I could even wear that at A.A. and N.A. conventions), and am going to dilegently study my new The Star Book for Ministers, and The Practice of the Presence of God. After that, I should be ready to obtain and study the ULC workshops on performing weddings, and especially gay weddings. Blessed be!
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Stanley Alan Marchand
Congrats on all the ULC stuff, that star book has some interesting info. what's that ministers hat look like ,don't think I know what it looks like I'll go to the store and check it out. Anyway I wish you all the best with all you want to do, best thing have fun with it.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thank you, Stanley, and the same to you.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Carl you seem to be taking things slow, not a thing wrong with thad. And certainly a worthy goal to expand your undersstand of faith traditions to better represent all children of the universe.
However consider this part of being a minister is to enlighten and educate. So while the word preach can come with certain mental images of a catholic priest spewing fire from the pulpit it does not have to be anything like that.
I shall leave you with a line from a song from the angry and confused youth of today " All I have ever learned came second hand, and I dare not preach what I dont understand!"
There is a simple wisdom in those words I shall leave you to ponder on.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thank you,Ilmenheru. I appreciate that, and do strive to teach from personal experience, when it seems beneficial, and does not come across as forcing my beliefs on others. I hope that what I share of myself with others will help enlighten them through their own system of beliefs, and not take away from it, or encourage them to become something that prevents them from being true to themselves, whatever that truth happens to be.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
After having attended an average of atleast a meeting a day for more than thirty two years , starting on October 15, 1983,with the 33rd Street Group of Alcoholics Anonymous, in Galveston, Texas, and later also the Galveston Island Group of Narcotics Anonymous, you can bet your bottom dollar that I've done more than my share of preaching, regarding spiritual topics, and knew what I was talking about. This blog takes the place of those meetings now, and I think I've made a better choice. But yes, I've definily been around, and have plenty to preach about, to those who will listen. And in case y'all haven't noticed, there isn't a shy bone in my body.
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flugo
'sea bee': Proverbs 16:18 might be a warning to you.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Aww damn Carl you win, you drew out the FLugo before me. How do you picture it? In my mind a flugo looks like a slug covered in nasty looking fungus and a really big mouth that yaps a lot but makes no substantial sound.
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John Norris Campbell
I'd love to hear your take on ya'lls "bible" page 11 where Bill's story actually matches 2:Cor.11:4 about 'another Jesus'...I often wonder if ya'll "lifers" have considered that all 12 steps are to be found in the Judeo/Christian Bible? Or...perhaps another fun fact found in Webster's dictionary: which reads; and I quote" Cult: Devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person (go Bill) or principle. A group of followers: a sect. The system of outward forms and ceremonies used in worship...(WHO GETS A CHIP TONIGHT!!) Sociologically speaking, a cult is a group whose members are controlled or dominated almost entirely by a single individule or organization/ this includes, but is not limited to authoritrian, manipulative, and sometimes communal features of cults....All that being said...I applaud your devotion to your 'organization'...after 30+ years of being 'sober' do you still introduce yourself as an alcoholic?....I no longer self identify as an adulterer, and it's only been 10 years
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Well then you really do not understand the holy book you claim to follow. You see once one committed a sin they always bore that sin until the day of their deaths. It is only in death that one can finally be judged and gain redemption or damnation for their sins.
Also in fact based on the original custom and meaning of the term once your spouse is dead thats it, no remarriage as even that counts as adultery in the ancient sense of the word from the time of Jesus.
So yes you are still an adulterer, more then likely a liar, etc.
However I am not sure why a supposed christian would even reference adultery, which is not a christian but a jewish commandment. Christians eschew the OT and live by the 7 virtues and 7 sins rule set.
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Stanley Alan Marchand
I hope the lawyers for the state don't see "the star book for Ministers" Especially chapter 1
1. Entering the Christian Ministry Called to Minister. ULC Lawyers should check out page 4 I'm no lawyer but page 4 could be a problem for ULC in Pennsylvania.
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SueW
Equality for all doesn’t cost you a thing. It’s not a zero sum game.
For the uneducated in the back, it’s not pie.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
The issue for those like MTG, is that for them losing privilege and having reason to have pride in things like the confederacy and its flag stripped from them while being told they cant be human trash to people is indeed taking something from them, we call it their sense of entitlement and white privilege.
To them the world being a little more fair is a loss, not a win win for all.
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Woodrow
One of the staunchest opponents of the Equality Act is Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has called it an "attack on God's creation" and drew outrage by putting up a sign outside her office that declares “There are TWO Genders: MALE & FEMALE. Trust the Science!”
Do you Trust the Science, or do you trust God.
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SueW
It’s not about god. It’s about her followers.
Given the choice to trust hypocrisy or science, which is really where we are, I’ll trust science every time.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
As I do not adhere to any tradition with a god, nor submit to the will of the gods of any other peoples faith, I shall have to trust to reason and rhyme and my own ability to use them and thus recognized kindred soul and like thought process driven by logic to develop hypothesis and theory that may in time with trial and effort lead to greater understanding of the realm we all exist in.
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John Norris Campbell
So you, by your own addmission, trust in the writtings of men you've never met, blindly accepting their findings as 'gospel'...wow! I've never before met someone with such faith as yours!
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Ilmenheru Terikson
No I actually understand how science works, can read the articles in peer reviewed research and use this stuff between my ears to ponder and think. I also do basic natural chemistry in the form of cooking for fun. Its amazing how many of the mysteries of the universe begin to fade into simple understanding when one uses their brain.
It is always amusing how those who dismiss science cant even show enough critical thinking ability to understand the difference between knowing and believing.
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John Norris Campbell
"Science" is a constantly evolving discipline. Science used to dictate that attaching blood sucking leeches to ppl with dieases, tonsillitus and even hemorrhoids was a good way to 'combat' a person's system that had 'too much blood' in it. And that was up until just the early 19th century. "Science" told us all the world was flat, that being gay was a mental diease (1950's) That "that the negro man was the missing link" (Darwinism) and all kinds of fun stuff that we, today can only laugh at. So you go right ahead and put your trust in a coven of witches wearing white lab coats calling themselves "scientist" One must have an awful lot of FAITH for such an endevor. BTW...I'v got some slugs for sale if you have too much blood in you...Science said so.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Actually every single thing you just said is a lie, but I am seeing you are indeed just a typical trumptard troll at this point.
However you seem to not understand what actual science is, based on your ranting.
Science never told us the world was flat as just the most obvious example, even the idea that people once held that as some common global truth is a falsehood. Every single sailing culture has understood the nature of the globe, and the horizon and what it means.
And as always you just cant seem to understand the fundamental difference between processes that can be observed and recreated and fantasy and wishful thinking.
Until you can set aside such outright wrong headed thinking, I do not see any reason to treat you like other then a raving madman.
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John Norris Campbell
Golly little buddy...."they" have got you not only decieved but completly bamboozled....ya know? like kept COMPLETELY MIND messed up?? (edited)...Just dust off those old ass books you're gramma kept and look up GEORGE WASHINGTON....and then go to the "BLOODLETTING" section....It's actually what killed him...'TOP SCIENTISTS' said good ,ole George had too much blood in him!!....kinda of like your hero Fauci saying back in march of 2020 "masks will do you no good" ..now fast forward to today and that idiot with his preistly "raiment' says: wear two or three masks....AFTER BEING VACCINATED...for ever!! And before engaging me in a battle of wits---know this---I will not engage with an unarmed opponent....you DO have a search engine yes??? what I speak of is soooo very easilly researched....
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John Norris Campbell
LOL!!! A "trumptard"???? You are actually my newest fun buddy to talk with with!!I could care a less about today's politics....Trump? Biden? who exactly gives a dump? They are all sucking the money pump that is our econmy.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Would someone please tell me what criteria is used to determine if someone is male or female? Is it a vagina or a penis? What about people who have both? Or neither? What are they? We all start life as females, it’s male hormones which causes the formation of a penis. But then again there are women with high levels of male hormones.
Anyone have a good answer?
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Anisahoni
What can we possible expect form a bunch of sexually frustrated people who only look upon trans people as freaks. Those 39% of people claiming to be Christian are so far removed from their lord and savior's teachings, it is pathetic. It is best to ignore them as there is no hope for them to become enlightened.
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James Pace
Anyone who opposes anyone else having basic human rights is less than human and has no business leading anyone. Complete lack of moral compass.
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Minister Mike
Any time religion is the excuse given to take something from others or prevent others from having what the religionist has, it is be bad. Believe the science.
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John Norris Campbell
And exactly WHAT does the science say??? Yea baby boy....there are only two genders....and guess what? FACTS don't care about your feelings
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Minister Mike
The facts, based on good science, is that being gay, trans, or any other gender orientation is genetic. Binary gender identification is a cultural adaptation with no evidence other than "Me and my group want it to be this way" to support it.
"The Nature of Gender" published by J. Richard Udry in 1994 and a study published in April of 2004 by David Haig pretty much put the binary gender myth to rest. There are a couple hundred more I can think of, but two should give you a good start in reading and learning.
There, now that I've answered your insulting childish question, answer mine - what verifiable scientific evidence is there that only two genders exist? You do realize your constant name calling and babyish attempts to belittle others ruins your credibility - right?
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John Norris Campbell
Funny how when world renown Archaelologists throughtout the world, when digging up some new grave or pile of bones, only can say "these bones are from a male or female" Why is that? Was it because they cannot tell what the mental wellbeing was of that person? Know what else is a 'social construct'?? Ancient Greeks finding it socially acceptable to sodomize young boys as a 'rite of passage'. As for the 'scientific evidence' one must simply reflect on all human history..I'll look into the two references you have listed. As I did when other ppl try to prove Darwinism...And sorry about the "Baby Boy" comment...I was "assuming your gender" I suppose.
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Minister Mike
Those "…world renown Archaelologists throughtout the world…" (your spelling errors, not mine) suffer from the same social disease as you. Ya' just can' fix stupid, I guess.
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John Norris Campbell
Reguardless of 'spelling" the song remains the same...(Led Zepplin) So let me get this correct....your standing is that when bones are dug up ---throughout the centuries...THOSE ppl are some kind of sexually repressed individuals??....how EXACTLY can 'science' delegate the mind set of same individuals??? Yep little person---they cannot. WHY?? because the DNA in question does not dictate the moral compass of those ppl....WHY??? because it is not about DNA but it is about "social norms" and "constructs"....PROVE ME WRONG
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
I find this distinction to be helpful: bodies are male and female, souls are masculine and feminine. That makes at least four "genders" with a whole bunch of shades of grey in between.
God is love. When God "breathed his spirit" into Adam, that made him a "living creature." We use our bodies to practice loving one another. As long as that is true, the union is sacred.
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Tom
Science says there are 2 biological sexes, male and female, but gender is independent of sex and is certainly not binary.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363#gender-differences
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flugo
The abnormal LGBTQxyz-ers' lifestyle is a rejection of a holy God/'s original design . . male and female. ANYTHING besides this creative concept is wicked depravity . . . as is ALL sin.
NO matter what the 'church', philosophers, doctors, 'experts', and psychologists say, the God of Truth is NOT the creator/instigator of a LGBTQxyz-er's yearnings, tendencies and/or propensities.
God have mercy on all those who attempt to thwart His designs. He is the SOLE giver of life, of peace, of salvation.
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Stewart
Yea well that's your opinion an you are entitled to have one ...
What your not entitled too is forcing any other person to follow it they have rights as well to their beliefs and opinions . And to be who ever and what ever makes them feel well and happy.
AS to god's mercy which ever flavor of extremist christian you are aaaaat the end I hope your god has mercy upon your soul because you will need lots of mercy . Read the entirety of your bible not just the one sentence here or there that enables you to rage an hate others .
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SueW
The two genders that “God created” were a man and a man’s rib. If you believe the creation story, we all began as biologically male, and the creator made the first transgender modifications.
It’s really not that simple though.
Aside from that, how others conduct their lives is really none of your business.
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flugo
'suw': Eve not created?! It's not scholarly for you to avoid the obvious.
Did you not see Genesis 1:27, 51:2 and Matthew19:4?
I t's always better to look to the Word of God than to assume, opine, or ignore. -
Ilmenheru Terikson
Actually the first woman created was Lilith who was equal to adam being made from the earth as he was. And she then was said to have spoken a word of power unto god in defiance and strode from Eden free to life as she pleased, and for that was called the mother of demons.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
As always Flugo you seem to not grasp the secular nature of the ULC, and that we do not consider your insular views to hold any validity here. You are nothing, not even child of this universe, when you align against all that is good and just. You are clearly a spawnling of the Negaverse!
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Alan Maurice Sanders
I see that you feel free to interpret the bible to suit yourself, and then say that anyone that doesn't follow it is a sinner. This is the trouble with extremists in that everyone must conform or all of a sudden you are the ones being attacked. I will fight for your right to believe as you will, but that does not include your shoving your beliefs down my throat.
This is a politcsl issue, and not a religious one and should be kept that way.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
God is Love. Love makes relationships marvelous. But relationships requires partners to the relationship.
The world was not made in six days. God did not "design" anything. He lends his support to wonderful relationships. His purpose is to purify our souls of fear so that we may be re-united with him. What we do with our bodies matters little to Him, so long as our intention is to love - that is, to call Him into the world.
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Herbert Moore
If we are to ignore the "church", etc. etc., what then IS the source that unequivocally provides "God's" intentions or "designs" on the matter. I fail to find any references to LGBTQxyzers attributed to "God" other than contemporary opinion.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Herbert, you sound like one of the ministers who we're going to start ignoring, in hope that you'll get the message, and go away. And please feel free to take flugo with you, in the name of Jesus, or whatever floats your boat.
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Minister Mike
You're getting close - The books attributed to the Jewish/christian/muslim god (Yaweh) never once mentions homosexuality, gayness, lesbianism, or even binary gender preferences. In fact, it was such an unimportant non-issue they didn't even have words for it/them.
Go figure.
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Herbert Moore
I have not been able to inspect everyone to confirm this, but it seems to me that the old notion of gender comes from a rather superficial typing based on physical appearance. Primitive biology. This MTG person should not be referencing science. Given the area of Georgia she is from I am surprised her sign is not restricted to white males and females.
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John Norris Campbell
LOL!!! Golly! You've been out of the political loop when it comes to Georiga.....yea very special person....What has been accepted as natural or normal has been turned upside down! Now it's completly normal for a man to stick his "member" in another man's butt, thus creating the lovely stench of a bowel movent staining the lover's sheets. This romantic adventure has somehow superceded EVERYTHING That THAT GUY....JESUS CHIRST....you know that major HOMOPHOBIC dude said about that kind of behavior....but!!! before you "crucify me" He...(being the CREATOR) also condems liars, adultry, and complete morons....and oh yea...theives...just in case you were thinking you you were left out of the loop.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Well JNC if there was any doubt about your nature, or the kind of insular zealot who represents all that is truly evil in this world this post of yours pretty much removes it entirely.
Not only do you seem to be one of those who ignorantly and intentionally ignore the actual moral point of the story of Sodom which had nothing to do with homosexuality.Though the content of your vile post makes it pretty clear the kind of foul circles what grey matter you possess seems to spin around.
Really JNC why are you even here? You clearly are not a minister in good standing who adheres to the tenants. So are you just here to troll? Because that is all it seems to be, and well that has been considered a very real sign of several serious mental health issues by the medical community for a few years now.
But then again you have already made it clear you think raping children is comparable to consenting acts between two adults of the same sex in a few threads here now. So its clear you struggle to understand the actual morality of our society and why consent is the critical factor involved.
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Anisahoni
Wow sounding quite sexually frustrated that you fantasize about sex between men. Why does it matter to you who loves who? How does same sex love affect or harm you? Get your mind out of the gutter and do good in your life and throw away your pornography and blow up sex dolls. BTW, this is a ULC site. Our ULC supports rights for all people no matter who they love. Take your homophobic trolling self elsewhere. You are truly lost.
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John Norris Campbell
I spent most of my adult life as a practicing bi-sexual man. I am definately NOT homophobic. Since coming to Christ, I've read the Bible. These are not my opinions but scripture. I seriously doubt you've read or understand Romans 1:26 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature...." I could go on but I sure I'd just be casting pearls before swine. I realize this blog is mainly for people who are lost, and just thought I'd at least try to show what the Bible says about such matters. It's really sad that all the responses I'v recieved are insulting and sophmoric. Instead, why can't ya'll share some words of wisdom form YOUR source of authority? My source of authority is the Holy Bible, now instead of attacking that book, perhaps share yours?
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You seem very confused about the difference between secular and insular, and those who practice faith traditions in a secular manner. You see preaching and pushing a specific form of faith as you do is seen as inherently evil to secular minded people. To us you are literally no different then some Iranian zealot that would stone a woman to death for being raped.
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John Norris Campbell
I, myself am definately NOT confused about the "difference" between secular and insular minded ppl. Because I've actually been where most of the ppl I encounter are 'confused' about a paticular lifestyle, I could care less what exactly these ppl consider "evil". While pumping gas the other morning, I came across a young person that was pumping diesel gas into her Chevy Impala...I suggested to her that she should read her owner's manual before continuing her purchase...Was I wrong to warn her about her error? Should I just 'Mind my own bussiness'? Was I adhereing to a paticular 'secular' mindset?? Or perhaps BECAUSE I knew what she was doing was wrong, and going to end up in negative consequences for her and her family? Ya'll still have not got a clue about the reality of life in this realm and can only belittle and insult well meaning ppl who would like to contribute to this dialogue. Exactly HOW can we "coexist" when everything I represent is persecuted? My view of this realm is constantly under attack by ppl that are supposedly "tolerant" about other's view points....A little backround info on me: I was born into a roman catholic home and orphaned when I was 7. Spent the next 7 years being groomed by pedophile priests that had me not only questioning my sexuality but then spent most of my young adult life as a bisexual sexual addict. Attracted to girls (the real kind) but also used to older men who only wanted to please themselves...Many ppl on this blog have accused me of being "sexually repressed" or perhaps "sexually frustrated"...Seems ya'll can only identify with your sexuality and not who you actually are as ppl...Makes my heart break...truly.
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John Norris Campbell
I must confess you are right about your conclusions reguarding "secular and insular"...as I was born into a particulary "insular faith tradition" (RCC) and that paticular faith has caused so very much death and destruction not only to myself but the secular world as well, shall we toss out the baby with the bath water? Is there no real abosolute truth in this realm? To be associated with either extreme example---both run by arrogant humans---prone to error by that very definition....what makes one better than the other? If one has a supernatural encounter that cannot be dismissed as "detoxing" or drug induced 'enlightment', what is one to do with that knowledge imparted to the hearer? Hide it from others or shout it from the mountain tops? In all humility...truly...if I'm seen as "inherently evil" by secular ppl...because I stand for the 'truth' as it has been revealed to me...those ppl are simply of no consequence to my reality....I actually consider them as NPC's....you know? NON-PLAYABLE CHARCTERS...I truly enjoy this blog because I feel I can discuss ideas that cannot even be broached in common/religious society. And because I will share deeply personal backgrounds with complete strangers, without fear of being stigmatized as "other than 'normal"---whatever THAT means...can only attest to the freedom I enjoy in this realm....May you enjoy the peace that I already do, as it surpasses all human understanding
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Ok you are certainly a broken and twisted individual. You do know that attitude you express about people just being NPCs is a sure sign of very deep mental health issues you need to be in therapy for and likely contained in an institute for the safety of others and yourself.
If you cant fathom that then I truly fear for the safety of all those around you, as its become clear to me you would do great harm to anyone who deem not real because they dont believe as you do.
So let me shut you down by taking the same meta physical field you want to play on and turn it into a bloody battlefield I hold the high ground upon and you can do nothing to assail nor besiege.
The soul that fills this meat sack called my body is as old as they come, as I am in fact that first bit of self aware energy that caused the big bang by my mere perception of light I turned it from wave to particle and unleashed all of creation from that moment and unto the edge of infinity and beyond!
All that exist, including you, are only substance when I turn my awareness towards you, and when it is not you exist no more then a film on a dvd when I turn it off. Sure you still exist in a sense but with no reality.
"Dusts of hands." Now that I have made you understand that when dealing with me you are less then a shadow fading with the setting sun and I am the source of all that is, was, and ever will be when discussing metaphysical topics.
You clearly are not all that peaceful or you would not come here seeking conflict. Or spewing hate speech and insular views on a secular ministry's forum.
I am well versed in the ancient first iteration of the NT aka bible, and Jesus would condemn you in your entirety just for speaking in conflict with another human being for any reason ever. Jesus literally said to not preach, to not seek to convert others or change the way they think through words. But to live a good life and by example spread the true word of his father.
You like many fake christian types can not seem to grasp the separate nature of the Ot and NT, or that anything added to the NT after the lifetime of Jesus is not valid in the eyes of a biblical scholar.
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John Norris Campbell
You miss my sarcastic intent of the "npc' comment. Dealing with people who have already been 'preprogrammed' to parrot whatever they've been taught to recieve without question, leaves one with very little to find in common with said person. It's not exactly an insult to that person but most likely a waste of time to engage them in conversation. The picture of the Jesus you paint with words is very different than the one found in the Bible. Matthew 23:15 has Jesus saying to the Pharisees "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! and goes on to declare them blind fools leading others to hell..'whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones...meaning they talk a good game but are full of it....Brood of vipers!! But I'm sure a well read scholar like yourself already read Matthew chapter 23...You do know why the Jews crucified Jesus right? He called out these self righteous "priests" in their own temple and so they accused Him of what passes today as "hate speach" Blasphemy!! Revelation 19:11 Shows Jesus returning with the heavenly host..robe dripping in blood...Matthew 28:19 Jesus says "GO therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, TEACHING them to observe all things that I have commanded you...." I feel you may be mixing up the earthly ministry of Christ with the teachings of the ascended Christ. It's a common mistake.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
No the mistake being made here is you, I am versed in these things to be a better nondenominational minister for when dealing with people of that faith. You on the other hand can not seem to grasp that to engage other ministers here in a secular manner means you also need to grasp that what you believe is just that a personal belief.
That you then go on to use that belief to espouse hatred and bigotry on these forums is why you are encountering the responses you are. That you so utterly fail to understand that it is your actions that are the ones causing the conflict, that you are the one who is the attacker in the wrong.
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John Norris Campbell
Exactly what do you consider 'hate and bigotry'? Do you not understand the concept of Nondenominational ministry? You seem to pull your philosphy from a Hindu and Buddhist background..Awsome! If you believe the path to Enlightenment is through the practice and development of morality, meditation and wisdom. I've asked you more than once to share what you believe and the source of your authority and usually you just berate my belief. Is there a paticular 'secular' scholar you can recommend? How do you establish what is right and what is wrong if there is no absolute truth? In some of your posts, you make some really good points...if the person you are addressing agrees with you. How does one engage with a "minister in good standing" if the belief systems are at polar opposites of the spectrum? How does a Buddhist converse about deeply held convictions with a Muslim? Or perhaps a Satanist with a Hindu? Or is this blog's intention to just mix all religions in a blender so that it will not be offensive to anyone? That's actually already being run by the Roman Catholic Church..".Catholic", meaning UNIVERSAL from the greek to english translation. I've double checked for any "bigotry and hate speach...Looking forward to your reply...BTW do you follow the teachings of Alesister Crowley?.".Do what thy wilt shall be the whole of the law"
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Oh JNC you do show yourself to be a dangerous member of the insular thinking far right. This post of yours here almost could be mistaken for a reasonable one, seeking answers and understanding. Yet I have seen far too many posts by you now to think you are asking such things in good faith.
You have made it pretty clear you are some form of a christian literalist.and deeply entrenched in the apologetics of that group. Big fan of C.S. Lewis I would dare to guess, though likely not for the Narnia works, maybe more the Screw Tape Letters which admittedly for that kind of writing is pretty amusing and well done.
The answer to your Qs is as simple as looking up the words secular and insular, and then grasping that insular is always evil, because it is the tyrannical approach that seeks to overwrite, rather then amalgamate.
If you want answers to your questions do as jesus did and travel, meet people, learn about their lives. Sit down with group of scholars from the various faiths and spend many hours in civil discussion.
I am not here to tell you what I believe, what I have faith in, what you should think or believe, beyond that which is the first step to embracing and being embraced by this community you have chosen to enter into the domain of and engage with.
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John Norris Campbell
NOW that was a well thought out response to extend a rather respectful dialog. A little more about me: I am involved in the Texas prison ministry, and as such, I am learning to be more humble in treating other's deeply held convictions with care while at the same time expressing my own. So as your suggestion indicates...I am, in fact, learning about other's lives and the religious disciplines they follow. THE very best way to stop a constructive dialog is to attack that person's beliefs. "Muhammad was a Pedo" is NOT a great way to start a convo...neither is "why should I take advice from a 400 pound prince about self displine? (Buddah) and I can go on and on and you know what? Only the enemy of humanity smiles. (Satan) I am not on this blog to seek justification by my modern day peers...I'm only here to learn more about other's beliefs...even though I've litterally spent hundreds of hours learning about the vast amout of 'supposed christian' beliefs....My source of authority teaches that in the end times there will be "APOSTATE CHRISTIANS"...Just look at ANY T.V. Evangelist... they are scamming their congreations because those ppl refuse to learn the word of GOD...therefore they are easy pickings for the less scrupulous "preachers" who only seek to deepen their own pockets. My questions are forthright but I am still just natural born man---Poke the bear and win stupid prizes.
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John Norris Campbell
A very well thought out non-reply...How exactly does one minister without sharing deeply held convictions? Is this blog just a business model to cull montery gain from the morons around us? I will, myself admit that to go into prison ministry I had to have some kind of credential to access my target group. ULC made it happen!...That being said---I do know for a very fact...that when the men I engage look into my eyes and see an actual Man---just like them---but with a paticular light in the eyes deep.. an inner conviction of that of which I speak of is truth......I do NOT get Paid for this---It is an inner conviction---a heart transformation---not behavorial modification...and when they learn that I too was once an inmate....you can actually TASTE the freedom that only JESUS CHRIST can bring to an inmate
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John Norris Campbell
So your paticular ministry approach to ppl with different views is to ridicule them? Or is that just your favorite approach to the four and a half billion ppl that follow the old testament? (Muslim, Jews, Christians)...You must fish in a very shallow pond looking for ppl to minister to. This umbrella you mentioned before in a previous post must be one of those kinds that fit on your hat and only cover you.
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God come soon and fix this mess!