Since 2009, we have been claiming that the Confederate battle flag is not some simple display of heritage, as many of its defenders would claim. Several states' secession papers acknowledge that the creation of the Confederate States of America centered on black enslavement and relegation under the law as lesser people.
Mississippi "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."
Texas _"__The servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations."_
South Carolina "[The Union States] have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States."
Georgia "That reason was_ _[__the North's] fixed purpose to limit, restrain, and finally abolish slavery in the States where it exists. The South with great unanimity declared her purpose to resist the principle of prohibition to the last extremity."
These secessionists were responsible for killing our President, attacking the United States, and subjecting blacks to rapes, lynching, and enslavement.
We ran these blogs because despite the clear and plain facts, nothing changed. The hate mail we have received for these posts from Confederate sympathizers must be what companies like Amazon, Ebay, and Wal-Mart will be getting for their recent choices to bar the "stars and bars" from their businesses.
There is now a huge movement to remove the flag and Confederate monuments from public places. This bit of sanity gives us a glimmer of hope.
From little children in a Selma church being bombed to nine church members asking a terrorist, Dylann Storm, to come study the Bible with them as he carried out their executions, one thing is finally now becoming clear to the American population: "southern heritage" is really just hate, and nothing more. How much blood must be shed at Calvary's cross to bring America into the 21st century? Please tell us.
The following is a collection of our attempts to call things as they are:
Hate Is Hate
Posted here on July 8, 2009
With the celebration of our country's Independence Day just a few days ago, we thought we would bring light once more to a growing problem in America; hate and the effect that it has upon an individual's peace, freedom, liberty and independence from public persecution.
The Congress of the United States is proposing a Hate Crimes Bill which we support 100%. It is time to atone for the sins of the past and the sons of Hate must realize that just as the Nazi's used flags and hate speech to persecute Jews, Homosexuals and people with mental illness; it would be wrong for any state with a large German population to incorporate the Nazi flag into a state flag in this country. There are those who suggest that the stars and bars of the rebel confederate states are a symbol of American heritage; but there is no heritage seen by the sons and daughters of slaves who were rounded up, hung, worked and sexually used. We have come a long way to allow a black man to occupy the White House which blacks built. We believe that speech transcends refusing to allow a child of God, who by nature is gay, to not speak his truth as to his creation. We believe that right-wing radio is at times not much different than the propaganda radio of Nazi Germany or the lies spread about Southern Heritage.
This continuum of hate transcends to the pulpits who host the most segregated hour of air time on Sunday mornings pitting one religion against another, single parents against two-parented families and non-believers against believers. Such is the elitism of a church that frightens children into believing that they will be sent to Hell and burned forever if they refuse to accept the dogma found on our public airwaves. Hate speech as well as pornography belongs on cable, not on the people's FCC controlled airwaves. One cannot be sent to Hell without certification that Hell exists. A lie is a lie, and as the 19th Century writer Thomas Carlyle said, "Nature admits no lie."
Some time ago we proposed a similar course of action to stop all hate speech originating from such organizations as the Aryan Nation, KKK, and White Citizens Council etc
In September 2000, the Neo-Nazi Hate Group, Aryan Nation of Hayden Lake, ID was forced to pay damages of $6.3 million to a mother and young son who were attacked by members of the hate group. Lacking the liquidity, the Aryan Nation was forced to hand over all of its property, both physical and intellectual. This included many writings and publications. The plaintiffs gained exclusive rights to the group's hate literature and memorabilia, ending their publishing and sale.
The sons and daughters of slaves should collectively sue for ownership of the Confederate flag, thereby preventing the use or sale of its image without their explicit permission. Ownership of the flag is clear and it should be argued that, being the property of the Confederate States of America who sanctioned the systematic rape and lynching of thousands of black folk in the South and cost the United States more blood than any war in its history; ultimately assassinating the President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln. Blacks should be able to take control of all the properties and "war relics" of the Confederacy and legislation such as the proposed hate crimes bill should be accepted with open arms to prevent such actions from ever happening again.
Hate is Hate: Reparation in America
Posted here on February 20, 2012
Three years ago, the Monastery addressed the important issue within the United States of personal heritage and the flag of the old Confederacy. In this month of February, we celebrated the birthday of Abraham Lincoln, the champion of ending slavery and keeping our union together despite a bloody civil war, and we find it appropriate to reexamine this divisive issue.
In the past year, we have seen examples of groups fighting for the right to discriminate against others. Some religious organizations cried out that if they cannot deny women health services or keep gays from acquiring equal rights that their freedom of religion is being infringed upon. In a relevantly similar situation, we have seen many individuals, proud of their family heritage, fight to display the battle flag of the Confederate States of America (CSA) known as the "stars and bars." In one case, Annie Caddell of South Carolina lamented that she wished her black neighbors would just understand that the Confederate flag on her front porch was not meant "to slam anybody."
What makes these situations alike is an inability of some to view the world through the eyes of others, and give up their selfish outlooks. While it might be consolation that for some, flying the CSA flag is not meant as an insult, the greater harm lies in successfully insulting people, whether you mean to or not.
For many black Americans, the stars and bars represent a painful chapter in history. If it is fair for flag-bearers to ask that others view the display as a symbol of heritage, we can view the flag as commentary on American heritage in general, including that of people descended from slaves. After all, anyone can find personal resonance in being confronted with the flag, not just those whose ancestors fought with the rebels. Displaying it publicly can muster pride within an individual, but at regular and nearly unavoidable torment to several others, while not displaying it publicly causes no direct harm to either the individual or his neighbors. Flying the stars and bars then seems indefensible.
Several southern states have come to this realization within recent years. In November of 2011, the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles voted to no longer allow license plates to bear the flag of the CSA. In another case, a black juror in Shreveport, Louisiana refused to hear a case in the Caddo Parish court house due to the fact it would be presented under the Confederate flag, not the U.S. flag. He argued that the court and citizens are held to U.S. law, so cases should be heard under the symbol of our nation, not one that represents a country no longer in existence.
Authorities agreed with his complaints and had the stars and bars removed, though a statue of rebel soldiers remains at the front and center of the building. Statues such as this are peppered throughout the southern states, and there are many Civil War relics treasured by groups such as the United Daughters of the Confederacy. These attempt to bring honor to the Confederate cause, but we don't believe this is a worthy pursuit. Many will be quick to point out that the war was fought over more than just the issue of slavery, though this was a central part. They will chronicle a history of southern pride, and the northern paternalistic attempts to legislate against values and commerce practiced in the south. There was also a major disagreement about how to handle the creation of new states and under whose conception of the justice they would be designed. It seems the more general issue was that of states' rights versus federal authority.
The reason this is not a worthy cause is the sheer hypocrisy of it. While southerners championed self-determination, they brutally stole it from their slaves. While they insisted northerners failed to empathize with their way of life, it didn't occur to them to empathize with people they saw as nothing more than property. They exacted greater abuse on captured Africans than the federal government exacted against the southern states.
Abraham Lincoln declared that all freed slaves after the war would receive forty acres and mule to work the land in payment for the tyranny they endured. After the failure of John Wilkes Booth and the Confederates to capture Lincoln, the north won the war. Booth then assassinated the President five days later, and his successor, Andrew Johnson, revoked the edict. Descendants of slaves have nothing to show for the atrocities committed against their families, and at this point, there is insufficient land to make good on the old reparation. We propose that all Confederate artifacts, including statues, flags, and battle relics be handed over to descendants of slaves. While this certainly doesn't erase the history, it would prevent ignorant people from evoking slavery and a bigoted perspective to those around them by proudly displaying these symbols of hate. We call on the great state of Mississippi to remove the stars and bars from their state flag. Even if you one does not purport to "slam anybody," as Annie Caddell phrases it, hate is hate, and our ordained ministers, and indeed our nation will not stand for it.
Hate is Still Hate
Posted here on February 25, 2015
Some time ago, we posted a blog that said, "hate is hate," wherein we looked at the similar feelings behind movements such as blaming and gassing Jews for Germany's problems and the rise of the Nazi party as well as the defense of slavery in the American south that compelled states to secede and form the Confederate States of America. These were both examples where the hatred (or at the very least, the indifference to the suffering) of a group of people drastically changed law and politics of the respective regions.
Having seen the Academy Awards, we are aware that the film Selma depicts a benchmark in our history when blacks fought back against the institutionalized racism of the old Confederate States at the time. We think the time is ripe again to revisit our artwork wherein we designate, regardless of whether it be segregationists, crazed fundamentalists, Klan members, or Islamic jihadists, hate is still hate. Flags of hate have no right to fly on the capitals of the new neo-Confederacy.
There are many that defend flying the Confederate battle flag as an expression of their heritage, but it is as evil as the ISIS flag. Slavery, murder, insurrection, and the assassination of President Lincoln; these actions of terror were born in the bottomless pit of Hell.
We can never allow these acts the dignity of the word "heritage". While for a white man the stars and bars may remind him of where he came from and his family history, it evokes for descendants of raped slaves a heritage of being treated as property. Notwithstanding, no Germans fondly fly the Nazi flag and defend it by saying that they aren't racist, they are just proud of their heritage.
These flags symbolize the racist views of their creators; claiming otherwise is to deny the horrific acts committed under these banners. We can't allow the violence to be whitewashed out of our history books your thoughts?
Comparing things to Hitler and the Nazis is nothing new on the internet. There's even a term for doing it: Godwin's Law. It happens so much that it isn't unreasonable to think that the severity of Nazi crimes is somewhat trivialized by how often they are equated to far lessor events. A survivor of the Holocaust would likely be shocked to hear, "the cop gave me a parking ticket even though the meter had only run out a minute ago, what a Nazi!"
The evil of Hitler and the Nazis is rare, but not totally unique and valid comparisons can be made. True, ISIS doesn't have the military capabilities that Germany had at the time and the Confederate States of America (CSA) preferred to beat, rape, and enslave their victims over killing them, but the same hate is there.
The key to understanding the similarities between Nazism, Confederate States of America racist expansionism, and Islamic State Neo-Caliphate ideology is in the motto on the latter's flag. The ISIS flag contains an Arabic statement, "B qiyah wa-Tatamaddad," which translates to "Remaining and Expanding." The state that ISIS has established claims sovereignty and plans to conquer other territories more than proven by the state's organized attacks and occupations of areas held by other sovereign nations.
The use of violence to not just promote an ideology, but to expand it to new places, is the very essence of fascism. The CSA sought to conquer or convert their surrounding areas to pro-slavery states ruled with institutionalized racism. The Third Reich under Adolf Hitler boiled over and scorched Europe with their anti-Semitic empire. The Islamic State aims to use beheadings and burning people alive to spread a hateful ideology.
Members of all three barbaric groups are instilled with the notion that dying for their sinful causes is a virtue. This forces the rest of us into a fight whether we want anything to do with it or not because the aggressors will only allow peace over their cold dead bodies. Their hatred has made them so rabid that debate and diplomacy are no longer viable options.
The film Selma shows us that even after the existence of the CSA itself, the repercussions of its ideology stained the region for decades. The same will be true with ISIS, should we even manage to eradicate it. The strong tensions between local groups will cause strife that will live on even after ISIS is dead and gone. That's the power of hatred; dressing it up under a different flag still allows us to see through it. Hate is hate. Do you agree?
These originals posts by
Br. Martin Freeman, Presiding Chaplain
211 comments
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James
Rick sounds like a white dude.
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Steve
Sounds like a white dude really??? You cannot fight hate with hate this is the path of the evil one to kill and destroy .....be careful your eternity is in question
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Margaret
James is right, he does.
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Rachel
quick to judge-sure you are not racist. Besides, the flag represents winning their freedom-y'all need a history book to read.
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Margaret
Exactly.
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John Owens
What's wrong with being white, James? Does that make him EVIL? Prejudiced? Privileged? Maybe, just the wrong COLOR? How does he sound "white"? Because his syntax and spelling are correct? He sounds reasonable and not overly-emotional?
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Margaret
John, he does sound privileged. Also like a jerk. You are buddies?
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Lisa
Amen brother
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Joy Woodhall
Awesome Answer John. James color SHOULD NOT MATTER!
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Margaret
Ya, it shouldn't. But you are white right? I can tell because you agree with John. What he said was messed up. James was right.
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Kathleen Baird
To put it in VERY simple terms: "YOUR right to swing your arms around ends at MY nose!" Though it may seem an innocent act you are doing, if it is hurtful to others, STOP IT!" Kathleen Baird
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Margaret
Very well said.
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Tony
I'm with Rick, and James you just proved the bigotry of this whole article by sniping out that "Rick sounds like a white dude." Really? So it's not ok to fly a piece of history that at the time the main reason for the conflict was not slavery, but agriculture. And the impedance of the north on how the south should run their states. There is a part of this article that states ,"Southern Heritage is just hate, and nothing more." That statement right there is as bigoted as the idiots in the white sheets. There were many if not more than half the families that had free workers and were not treated as slaves. Another FYI for you blacks were not the first slaves here, the Irish were, then the Chinese, and Native Americans. So to act like the blacks were the only ones hurt is just ignorant. The Native Americans had an entire country taken from them! Tribes wiped off the face of the Earth, and the reason why this circle of hate still exists is from one sided articles like this and ignorant comments like yours. So what if he's white? It's ok to be a bigot as long as its against a white person? Ignorant, just ignorant. Let he with no sin cast the first stone. So unless that's you, keep your bigoted racist comments to yourself! People like you keep the hate going by fueling the fire on both ends.
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Steven P Ruch
AMEN
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Vicki Burleson
Did you all know that, according to colonial records, the first slave owner in the United States was a black man?
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Gregory Rumby
The north And south had slaves' Heres the thing though- They sold themselves into slavery' watch amistad a good movie on the subject...They were brought to america against there will under horrific conditions a slave in a new country.....I dont like seeing people mistreated i hate what our forefathers did...but the fact remains..africa is your homeland then go back..the native american is the real marder here still a prisoner in his own country an he dont get to whine to get what he wants in his own country...the afro american shouldnt either because its not your country..and racism is alive and well with blacks but they can get away with it...WHY. they can use something like history to get there way...thats total B.S.. unfair to everyone in his country..remember it aint just yalls country. America is a nation of nations..the native peoples are the only ones who have any rights to complain..it was theirs first..Black people are good people and have given and contributed much to america.BUT your wrong to wanna take from others or use whatever sign symbol flag or peice or part of history to get whatever you want..slavery didnt start with yall but hopefully it ended with yall...its ugly and has been around for thousands of years and affected many different peoples but you dont here them all crying to get theyre way. its a bad part of history but history none the less ..heal learn from our mistakes and move forward to healing this world we all share.. in the military your my brother we got each others back.we live laugh an cry together....but at home everyday on the streets we're honkys niggers spics wops chinks ect WHY? It has to end. we are all family to a humble beginning an children to the same creator who i feel is not happy with us because we his children cant get along an live in harmony...its sad...i pray for peace with all peoples...heal an let the past be the past..work together to improve our world for us and our children amen...
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Margaret
Wait, so you saw a movie. Then you say they sold themselves into slavery. WTF?
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Margaret
Also, you don't seem to know the difference between words like they're, their and there. Perhaps you may want to go to school? They are is they're. Their refers to someone and there means over there. As little as you know about the English language, I figure you must not be much of an expert on history or anything else. Yall LOL! Wouldn't that be y'all? As in you all?
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irish
margaret this is nit an english lesson if it were colour
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E M Moriarty
About agriculture???????? Just who do you think carried out the backbreaking work to ready the fields, plant the crops, care for the crops, harvest the crops, and move them to market? Slaves performed all the work of Southern agriculture. Your frequent use of the word ignorant, seems to be casting stones to this reader. Peace and Love for all humanity must be the goal of Spiritual leaders.
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Margaret
I feel sorry for you as you are clearly troubled.
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Not a Sheeple
I agree with Rick, and I'm a " white dude"
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Margaret
I bet you do, and no question that you are.
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Azri
Thank you!!
i am gettin mighty tired of being painted with the same brush as some people WAY back in the day.
my question is this..so they got rid of that offending flag..whats next on the "anti hate possies agenda"? what part of our history (good or bad) is going to be discarded? this is one of many 1st steps to a really bad outcome. please think on this folks..
my next question is, when is "racism" going to stop being used to excuse genuine losers? no hear me out, i have studied racism to some extent and have had personal experience's. when i look around i see WAY to many folks using supposed ancestors hardships as an excuse for their failures, now! today! why? whats more ALOT of folks don't have a CLUE what their heritage truly is. not all dark skinned folks hail from Africa nor were ALL slaves.
yes i know how unpopular what i've written may be, but i feel it needs be asked and spoken on or things will never get put to right's.
PS: for those who wanna call me a racist? go right ahead.just because YOU say it, doesn't make it true...
:D cheers!
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docclay
Really?
Just because you say you're not a racist doesn't make that true either. I have no doubt that you 'think' you're not (as much as you have the capacity to do so), but thanks for giving us the option of freedom of speech on the matter. That's awfully white of you.
You see, earlier last year I did a little research of my own, and found out that our family linage began when my Great, Great Grandmother was raped by her "owner". I suppose under your definition it wasn't so much a rape as it was taking my Great Great Grandmother's crotch out for a test drive. The modern analog I suppose would be trying to prosecute a man for having inappropriate contact with a blow up doll. Maybe she should have just gotten over it so as to spare the white side of the family tree any undue emotional trauma. After all, if she didn't want to be white topped, maybe she shouldn't have been sashaying about the farm in her sexy, sexy slave girl outfits. Lord God Almighty! Even a scumbag slaver is merely mortal. You have this sexy little pickaninny sauntering about the plantation, all sexified in her 15 years on the planet. She catches the eye of her owner. He did what came natural to any healthy red blooded American male who can do what he wants to with his property and lived in a time before any convenient birth control. He filled her black womb with his superior white male seed and bing bang boom, a hundred years later, her I am.
Not to make this little tome to terribly long, but my great grandfather was given away to a Confederate Surgeon because he could "pass" for white. That and I don't think he wanted his wife to see this house nigger carrying around this white looking baby around the house, but that's just supposition on my part. Trying to put myself in his place, I figure my Great Great Grandfather might just be thinking that the ol' ball & chain might figure out that someone in casa del slaver might be dipping his white pen into the company's ink supplies.
My great great grandmother never got over the loss of that child. This surgeon moved his blended family from Virginia to Missouri just after the war. She later married another former slave and had a rather large family. Her first male son of this union was named James Harold. The koo koo kooky part of it was that this was the same name as my great grandfather. Her husband even took her last name when they got married. Sounds like to me she decided to carry a grudge over the whole thing. I bet her former owner didn't lose a minute of sleep over it.
If flags are nothing but cloth, why don't you just take yourself down to the nearest VFW post and burn an American flag. Those guys just love that kind of stuff. They're big fans of this kind of performance art. After all, it's just cloth isn't it, so what does it matter? It's not like it commemorates a bunch of scum bag traitors who conducted organized armed insurrection against the freely elected constitutional government of the United States of America. Just because Dante´ Alighieri reserved his lowest level of Hell in Inferno for traitors, don't you give that no never mind. But, doesn't it give at least some pause to know that all you folks who want to give honor to this bunch of traitorous scumbags, that you are four square in the same corner with the Ku Klux Clan?
Really?
Amen.
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Carol
You say sexy pickaninny Doc? Then you say a hundred years later her I am? Doc Doc Doc.
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Earl
Did anyone read this? OMG
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Brother Strawberry
Astounding!! Incredibly well stated!! Quality writing like this deserves greater recognition.
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Margaret
How about if the flag comes down from government buildings because they LOST.
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Margaret
Do you see any British flags flying around our government buildings? No. Right about the time they LOST, they were taken down. Never put back up either HELLO
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Ribqah
We are all humans with rights to feel think represent who we are. Why focus on the flag the flag did not kill anyone. People killed people for something they believed in. Why not focus on healing and humanity not are mistakes in history. We must remember our past as not to repeat it. I am proud to be from the South i am proud to embrace and respect others thoughts and feelings as long as they are not violent. If we are afraid to offend anyone then we are not being true to ourselves or the American dream of not being punished for our belief system. Yes there is a difference berween hate and heritage. Be kind to all you meet judge not. Be able to agree to disagree but still love one another. The flags of peoples beliefs and representation should not offend us. The actions they take may offend us but the have a right to there beliefs. No one has the right to physically harm another or destroy there property. Lets all get our ducks in a row and put are selves in others shoes before rash judgment lets educate ourselves before opening our mouths before we take a stand orr a side. Knowledge is power and those who are wise do not strive for more anger but diplomacy and peace. GOD BLESS AMERICA and its people of every race and every belief system and may he and only he strike down those who are truly our enemies.
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irish
have you seen the hawaiin state flag ????? google it maggie
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irish
hawaii
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C. N. Kirkman
I always say you can't change history just because you don't like it.
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irish
the brush you are painted with is not the problem maybe it is the colour of the paint
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PJ
It's the natural order of things..it's called the pecking order.
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Doc Cribbett
Well written (said)! It's difficult for people to think with wisdom and non-judgmental compassion when living among any fear-based government, military or man made religions. Nothing is an issue until the individual allows it to become an issue. I believe the quality missing from this issue is the lack of personal gratitude. Gratitude to me is the most empowering word in any language. Thought o' the day: How many Buddist Fighter Pilots are there? (Hint: Zero)
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Mary
Lol Doc! You're one to talk about judging! What a hypocrite. You may want to think about praying for yourself. You sure need it more than I! Please, please I beg you, DON'T PRAY FOR ME! My skin crawls at the thought.
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David
Did you see that guys earlier post about pickaninnies? He scares me too!
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Margaret
Tony please. Fly a piece of history. The South LOST. That flag should have come down and stayed down from state buildings just as the British flag came down from American government buildings after they HELLO lost.
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Patti Rosenmund
Thank you, Margaret! Wow, I'm reading way too much apologizing for the use of this flag. It should come down because it is a symbol of white supremacy - as noted in the article above. The articles of the Confederacy made no secrecy that they were white supremacists. Later, the Ku Klux Clan used that flag to terrorize black people. Then it was used again in the 60's when racist people used it to denounce desegregation. Even Nazi sympathizers use that flag in conjunction with the swastika. It simply represents evil. That kid who shot the parishioners knew exactly what it meant when he used it on his car. The South, thank goodness, lost the war. That flag symbolizes a terrible history we must acknowledge, but to fly this flag anywhere is shameful. Take it down. I'm an atheist, but those people who lost loved ones in their church are so inspiring because they want to forgive and love one another. They give me hope for humanity. For their ability to honor their loved ones with GRACE and humility, not with hate, we should take down that flag.
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Brother Strawberry
Thank you Patti for a beautifully expressed truth. May Peace be with you.
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irish
hawaii flag google it
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cwchiC
I agree to take them off of State Buildings but what I don't agree with is what happened here in Alabama with the Governor taken not only the Battle Flag but all Confederate Flags off of the Historical Monument in Montgomery and now they are talking about removing a Civil War Memorial in Birmingham the and as much as it may be hurtful to some it is still part of Alabama History it was the Capital of the CSA and anyone that wants to hold a grudge against a Flag because of slavery it was the American Flag that flew over the slave ships hauling slaves just saying
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C. N. Kirkman
Way to go, Tony. It is sad that people in this day and age remain ignorant to the facts. There is more hate in this country now than ever before. That's what Americas enemies want, division from within. "A house divided among itself cannot stand", ring a bell? Wake up hate mongers! Aren't we all still Americans?
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Steven P Ruch
The only thing I'm going to say is: As long as there is good and evil someone some were is going to be offended by something.
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Mike
DITTO; We all need to learn to be more tolerant, and to turn the other cheek.
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Gregory Rumby
Amen brother.
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Anonymous
As long as there are people seeking power over others, someone somewhere is going to be offended by something. Read more at http://www.themonastery.org/blog/2015/06/a-heritage-of-hate/#OEuky4DGqymRODU6.99
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Reese Dorrycott
True, or as was once said, "As long as you have two people together you will have conflicting opinions." Or something along those lines.
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Halfmoon
Its America we still have a few freedoms.Really don't care what kind of flag you fly.Bumble Bees offend me and can kill.Let's get rid of bumble bee flag.Let it go everyone.
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Margaret
Okay, fly that POS flag in your yard or your truck all you like. The government's buildings are different. Good Lord! Why are people defending the flag of a group of states who lost a war so many years ago?
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Doc Cribbett
Margaret, you appear to have a very big chip on your shoulder. Your remarks/comments are not from compassion but intending to provoke. "One awakens a child with a whisper." I hope for inner peace for you dear. Sincerely, Doc
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Margaret
Gee I'm sorry if you don't like my comments! Not sure why you're so judgemental. I'll be sure to never ever comment again. From now on instead of coming in here and saying how I feel, I'll pray for you to see others in sweeter light with less judging towards them. As you feel it's your duty, I completely understand.! You need lots of prays so know my whole church with table up full time praying for you dearest one! Now, I'm off to remove my account with this blog, and do the way most important business of praying for Doc?
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Bailey J
Ignore that guy Margaret. Did you see his earlier post? I am surprised this site allowed it. He spoke of whites being superior. He called a black women pickaninny.... looks to me like someone trying to upset people for kicks.
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H Smith
I have several objections here. First the flag did not kill those 9 people in South Carolina, it was pure evil that killed them and as an ordained minister with the ULC I will espouse my opinions based on the word of God against such evil but not against a 'flag'. The banning of the flag is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction, we seem to have a need to blame 'something' instead of 'someone'. The flag represents heritage and tradition to a lot of people who have roots in the South and don't have a racist bone in their body. As a child growing up in the South my family used to work side-by-side with a black family cutting wood and harvesting crops that we would share for warmth and nourishment. The patriarch of the black family had a confederate flag hanging on his living room wall. The confederate flag was not the official flag of the South, it was a battle flag. If we ban anything that has racial overtones to other people can you imagine the size of the list of things that will be banned? Lets identify evil at the source because by ignoring the source of evil and allowing it to distract us we let evil win. God Bless You All.
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Don
Amen!
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Rev Kory
If you are offended or upset by a flag or symbol of any kind. You need to look inward at yourself. Why are you upset ?does it affect your day to day life. If you are living life for GOD. Why worry about trivial things. Were you in a nazi camp or were you a slave? If so are we not told to forgive and not judge. Let the past be the past . Why are people looking for a cause?Something's missing spiritually.Have a Blessed Day. Love one another and there faults. Rev Kory Ivey
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Prose
I am disgusted that ULC has fallen into the politics of these subverted topics with biased opinions for and/or against. It appears I was wrong to assume that this was about faith and spirituality. Even here, we are seeing people arguing and segregating themselves. I am a man of faith and have held ULC at a high moral and spiritual standard, until now.
I now find it imperative to pray for ULC and it's members on here. We should be holding ourselves to a higher level of reason than this. Its one thing to shed light on issues, it's another to promote it.
Spirituality is not political. Politics are not spiritual. Taking a biased side, as such, on said topics is undermining the seriousness that many of us have here.
(Feeling let down)
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Marcia
I agree with you Prose. This is the first time I visited this blog & I to am ashamed at the ULC for bringing politics into this. I worship GOD, not politics. Remember politics is what is trying to take GOD out of our young peoples lives. Shame on you ULC. ( by the way the boy that killed all the people in the church was also pictured burning an AMERICAN flag) Should we remove it to & change history? Create a new flag? I will remove myself from receiving this news letter, I want to read about GOD not politics !
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Joe
Why don't you people who think you have a clue of what that flag means pick up a history book and read the stars and bars true history all you media lead idiots are showing how ignorant you are
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Patrick Hughes
Total bleeping nonsense. It was a symbol of breaking away from a corrupt Northern Government and still is., Happened in 1861. The slavery issues was in 1863..........read the damned history books and get a grip.....
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Tom Hook
I was born and raised in South Carolina,ma disabled Marine combat vet with multiple tours of combat and several conflicts since 2002until my career and even life was lost for a short time in 2006 in Afghanistan, and even spent about a year as a police officer in South Carolina.in combat the only color is green to meand it had many black man then I would have died for and vice versa. growing upthere was a black lady who helped my handicap motherand who I grew up with and was like a second mother to me! this isn't to say that I'm not prejudiceonly I'm not prejudiced to color I cannot stand an idiot and idiots come in all colors white black brown yellow excetera.yes the south is full of racismand some white idiots even a rally behind the Confederate flag claiming it represents them, yet many white people from the south are like me and see the Confederate flag as a symbol of heritage of southern upbringing which isn't all that bad !just like old police models of protect and servewe can wonder who is going to protect us from some of the law enforcement, but not every cop is bad.every race every professional business position has some corrupt people in it but not everyone is bad.look at the American flag it's supposed to represent freedom and unityyep almost any American can tell you there is not a lot of unity and we have very little individual freedoms these dayssonder those examples I guess the American flag represents all the negative things that we have in place in this country which would also mean racism and non unity. since many blacks hate whitesand there is a tremendous percentage of blacks that kill whites and murder whitesthen I guess the African flag should represent reverse racism
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Mohammed
Why are so many twisted racist Christians? Reflects poorly on the religion.
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Sherry Ramsey
Freedom of speech is freedom for EVERYONE to express themselves. If we do not support the flying of any flag, Confederate, Natzi, American, Rainbow we are going down a slippery slope. My Devine being loves everyone. My behavior is not based on yours. Above all else be kind.
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Edwin Horton
The flag of the US has represented slavery for decades, the Confederate flag for only 4 years. Lincoln turned the Civil War into a racist conflict. The southern states didn't want what we have now. Politicians telling them what to do. I'm ashamed of the direction our country has taken. Ive lived through the highest point of pride after ww2 to the lowest, now. Ed H.
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Gregory Rumby
You speak the truth brother ...
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Stephen Fisher
The Civil War was not about slavery (until Lincoln made it about that at the very end). During the war, four Northern States continued with slavery and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation only freed the slaves in the seceded States. Interesting how they gloss over these facts in the public schools.
Jefferson was a slave owner, so should we tear down the Jefferson Monument? The US Flag flew on the ships that brought the slaves to America and it flew as we "conquered" the Native Americans. Is this a racist flag as well?
Should we try to wipe away the parts of history that we are ashamed of?
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Stephen Waters
Amen... I fly my flag.. Always will.. My family died trying to fight for our freedom.. I do not care if it was what you believe in or not..
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BamaGirl (@gingerpeacock7)
ME TOO BRO!!! LET SOMEONE TRY TO TAKE MY FLAG, AND I HAVE AMERICAN & CONFEDERATE!!!
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Marcia
My flag is Fly'n High & Proud !
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michael head
AS well as George Washington, he also was a slave owner, but yet his face, name is in every state in the union and his face on our money, but no one has a problem with Ol George. Race baiters pick and chose who they want to call racist. If we are going to wipe away 240 years of history, then wipe away ALL of it. Not just certain points.
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Janet DeMar
Finally someone who knows the truth thank you for your educated comment.
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Harry Chamberlain
I think Lincoln's true views on slavery are best summed up in his speech at Charleston, IL on Sept 18th 1858 when he was debating Steven Douglas, very state's right speech. .
Quote
While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness-and that is the case of Judge Douglas's old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this: that I do not understand that there is any place where an alteration of the social and political relations of the negro and the white man can be made except in the State Legislature-not in the Congress of the United States-and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching, I propose as the best means to prevent it that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [Uproarious laughter and applause.] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject. End quote
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Patti Rosenmund
The Civil War was about slavery - how can you deny that? The articles of the Confederacy say it. Lincoln's Republican platform (before the war) condemned slavery and vowed to abolish it. Before the war, he called it a National Evil". He called for it's "Extinction". In his last year of life, he used all his political pull to establish the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery. The Confederate flag is the flag we are talking about - yes our flag flew over some terrible injustices, but the Confederate flag was not created in order to "form a more perfect" union. It was created out of hate, bondage and terror. The flag that won over the South may not be perfect, but it strives to be. The other flag should be in a museum in order to teach us and remind us of one of our terrible sins.
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Margaret
Lol, still angry at Lincoln? Southern states wanted to own human beings. I'm glad they lost and if the sick flag is upsetting people, (it upsets me) take it down from public places. I'm sure it will continue to fly proudly in your yard. I will pray for you, Tony and Rick.
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owen
Thank you! I can't understand why so few people understand this. Yes the Kkk used the confrederate flag, but they adopted the use of the flag after it had been established as a "rebel" flag. It was their way of showing their rebellion. By the way I do not support the Kkk in any way at all. Someone posted that anything that offends someone is stepping on the offended peoples pursuit of happiness. How about the gangs, the sagging pants, the riots, and looting? Those things offend many more people than a cloth symble ever should. We the people have became a people that looks the other way to often. We need to watch our government like hawks. As everyone fights over the flag the government is passing bills and laws and things that wouldn't be passed if the media covered those stories instead of the war over a flag.
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Serene Tami Sargent
I must say that I think the idea of a class action lawsuit to sue for rights to the CSA flag is quite brilliant. If it is an actual legal possibility, the Southern Poverty Law Center would be the people to do it. They've been successful in this before, (as referred to in the very well written and exceptionally reasoned blog above,) and I think it would be an awesome case to bring, regardless of the legal diciness and lack of precedent. It seems to me a perfect case to SET precedent for further reparations. The problem really is, who do you sue? As far as banning hate speech, however, I must disagree strongly, despite knowing how often it is the motivation for heinous crimes. Who decides what "hate speech" is? No, the only answer to hate speech is love speech. The answer to free speech is more free speech.
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Friar Jeremiah
Arthur, Tony, and Steven all have valid and very true points.
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lancasterpausa
I totally disagree. The confederate flag is an American flag. Half the country lived under it and many Americans died under it. The blacks (13% of the country) are forcing the issue. Freedom of speech is being destroyed. This country is going to crap, and why? People think they are entitled and deserve respect. You don't work for generations and the US Government lets this go on.
Most Current Census (2010) In America – 321,000,000 total Population
13% Black or African American or Combination people in America 42,000,000
Bureau of Justice Statistics - 2005 Number of inmates per 100,000 residents/a
Region and jurisdiction Male Female White/b Black/b Hispanic
All States 1,249 121 412 2289 742Blacks in Jail – 7,350,000 – 64% Whites in Jail – 1,350,000 – 12% Hispanic – 2,400.000 – 21%
Aprox. 11,500,000 people in jail
13% of the population is causing at least 64% of the problems in America
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Tyler
Praying for you and us all to find just peace.
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LetGo
Everybody suffered during the Civil War. During the Civil War white neighbors were killing each other for taking sides. It was a scary time. You didn't know if your neighbor was going to kill you. Or if the soldiers would harm you.
You can see my young ancestors in their teens and twenties buried in family cemeteries. I am born because my minister gr gr grandfather was killed for being accused a traitor and his wife and 3 kids were spared. Many books are written about all the skirmishes and killings from family archives. Hidden facts. My white ancestors are in these books. Do I deserve any gains from what was done to my relatives? No. Move on for a better future and don't dwell in the past. Acknowledge it and Honor it. Stop bickering. It's too complicated.
So let it go. Let the angers go. There were other war flags too. Let's keep the war flags and relics in museums and unite under one. Let's not start another Civil War over pettiness and hateful politics. As Pres. Obama said, There are no blue States or red States, it is the United States!
Copy this and paste it in your social media. Our future depends on acceptance, understanding and forgiveness. May love prevail.
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Eric
I think there needs to be separation of church and state, something this site needs to adhere to.
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James Morris
Bigotry and Racism has nothing to do with a symbol and everything to do with what is in your heart. I do however agree that the Confederate flag should be removed but on the basis that the Confederate nation lost to the Union and should therefore not have their flag flying over Union territory. However if the reason that it is being taken down is solely because of the deaths of the people in Charleston then I say leave it in place. Now read on before you hate on me. The reason I say this is simple. Who is Adam Lanza? does his name ring a bell? I bet it does he was the Sandy hook shooter, and every article begins with his name, Who are Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev? Oh I bet you reognize those names as the Boston marathon bombers. But do any of you know any of the victims names? I surmize not. My point is this, take down the flag for the right reasons, if you take it down to "Honor" these 9 victims they will not be the ones remembered for it, no the credit for it will go to thier killer Dylann Roof and he has received enough press. Let him fade into obscurity, let the world focus instead on the way that Charleston has come together as a community because of this tragedy, let that be the legacy of the fallen here, lest we continue to glorify the guilty and forget the innocent.
Cynthia Marie Graham Hurd (54) Susie Jackson (87) Ethel Lee Lance (70) Depayne Middleton-Doctor (49) Clementa C. Pinckney (41) Tywanza Sanders (26) Daniel Simmons (74) Sharonda Coleman-Singleton (45)
Myra Thompson (59)
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Vanessa
Sadly, the people were murdered by a very sick young man. The flag confederate or otherwise had nothing to do with the killer's action.
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Jason Buchite
The flag has nothing to do with racism. It is simply a confederate battle flag. Since it was the flag of southern states that happened to own slaves it is seen as a flag of slavery. Same can be said for old glory then since slaves were owned under our flag as well. People need to get past ( I'm not saying forget) what has been done in the past as far as slavery goes, On September 22, 1862, Lincoln had issued a preliminary proclamation warning that he would order the emancipation of all slaves in any state that did not end its rebellion against the Union by January 1, 1863. the African American communities are angry with whites over slavery and they have the right to be. Slavers was and is wrong. They should also be angry with their own people for selling people into slavery to begin with. We have the same right of banning the battle flag as we do silencing Christians for standing on a street corner spreading the word of God to passers by or to ban the Mormans from going door to door spreading the good word its unconstitutional and against the freedom of speech. If the sight of something offends you then do not look at it or if the thought of something offends you then stop thinking of it. Simple as that. People just need to learn to coexist.
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david, bickel
all though a flag is just a flag, if it stubbles my brothers I would not have one...
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Pete
The 1st response said that if something offends someone we should take it down. Now that is a slippery slope indeed. Be very careful what you ask for.
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ronald wolfe
I am with RIck, James and steven,What has come of our freedom of expression? It only upsets those who allow it to upset them, We all should be free to express our feelings however we want. If it hurts you then toughen up and just realize the person flying that flag is a bigot, racisist or whatever you want to call them but they are just excercising their rights to freedom of expression. Everyone does not have to conform to YOUR or anyone else's belief.
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sunny
I relatives who where slaves in the south and my family is white. If one will read what Lincoln wrote then they would see that he states "all freed slaves". He didn't say black slaves he said all slaves. Yet even today's society dredges up slavery but ONlY remembers the black slaves. Yes there were a lot more black people enslaved but not only blacks were slaves. Many People I feel use slavery as a sort of crutch always talking about what their fore father's wwnt through and how they are somehow OWED something because of their pain, like above about the 40 acres and a mule That is mentioned. And as well not very often do I hear anything said about the white man who died for the equality he so believed in, Lincoln. i think we ALL need to start concentrating on our future and let the dead rest.
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Tom
I say let the flag wave. Put it on license plates, wear it on clothing. This will clearly identify those in our communities who honor a symbol that has come to stand for bigotry, racism, white supremacy, and prejudice. The silent bigot is far more dangerous than the one who waves a flag. If I see you show reverence for this symbol, it sends a message to me to avoid you and your kind.
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Patti Rosenmund
Thank you - yes. I can't believe the crazy things I'm reading here!
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Lynn Ehrhart
Absolutely!
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Bailey J
Indeed, a great comment.
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Bob Bender
The Confederate Battle Flag is not a symbol of hate to me it is a symbol of Heritage. The Civil War was not just about slavery but also about finances for both sides the North wanted the South to pay more money on taxes for the products they were getting from the north while the north did not want to pay money on the goods from the south. Let's not destroy history because of a few bad apples in the bunch.
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Jeff
I do not believe in the enslaved, or the fact that they sold there selves into it! However what comes next? Are we then asked to remove the flag of the United state's be couse it's be come offensive to some? How far must we go to appease those offended? Nation's are never built on kindness or weakness,but they are lost by these same afore mentioned reasons. Mistakes are made building great Nation's, have we made them? Of course we have,but we have learned from them as well. Believe me when I say racism is ugly,however it has become a multi sided blade,and runs in more then just one direction. We need to come together as the human race,not separate, not reverse racism, the human race! Until we can achieve this common bond thing's will not change.
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Ali
Don't all flags perpetrate hate? Borders? Religion? Imagine if there were non of these and we all lived as brothers and humanity was the religion..I beneuve that's what all the prophets taught us. We're we not listening?
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Gary Reves
As a minister of ULC and a southern boy, I know ,for a fact, that the BATTLE flag is not a symbol of racism. It is ONE states symbol of self governing. That's all. Over time it became a symbol of singular pride, and is still used in battle to this day. Yes there is still racism in the U.S., but to say one flag is to blame? Total falsehood
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Gary Reves
. "The ULC, recognizing the importance of maintaining open hearts and MINDS, embraces any individual, no matter his or her spiritual background", ( from ULC website) I thought an open mind meant not hate-mongering.
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Byron
Its a flag. People need to get a life.
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Donald
The Confederate battle flag is not and never has been intended as a symbol of hatred. For one thing, the Civil War was not fought because of slavery and anybody who thinks so needs to reread their history books. It was fought over state's rights to govern theirselves and, yes, slavery was one of those issues. The problem is not the flag but the fact that each race thinks that they are better than the other but we are all the same color inside. I think that anybody that wants to act like a human being and not an animal can live where and do what they want to but anybody of any color that wants to behave like a lower animal should go live in the jungle with them or in a zoo.
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Rick C.
I see this as the intentional destruction of southern unity, no matter what color the skin is. This is a direct attack on something, especially by the truly uneducated, that is an attempt to destroy history and heritage. The flag didn't kill those people. And if you really believe it had to do with the flag, then what flag killed over 1,000 blacks in Chicago so far this year? It's not about a flag at all. It's about the fact Charleston, in the face of a huge tragedy stood together, united. This is the unity this administration and the race baiters of this country are having problems breaking. The racial divisions and tensions are now at an all-time high since this administration and the false prophets Sharpton and Jackson put their stamp of approval on creating the problem. Instead of taking each case of tragedy individually and looking to solve that problem, a blanket of hate is tossed over the whole thing. As I watched each event in Charleston unfold, I found it completely unbelievable the shooter was never actually blamed, but a flag was along with many other things. We don't have a flag problem & we don't have a gun problem - We have a huge problem with heart, with morality, with respect, with values and with faith.
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Jim
This then means that our American flag is a symbol of hate too. Imagine the atrocities done under that flag - were not union folks slave owners - we dropped the bomb under that flag - and how many more. It's funny that people say the south is racist but I have lived in all four corners of this great nation and the most pervasive racism is in the northeast. Curious.
As I look in my crystal ball I project that old glory will be next
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Colin F Crickett
Displaying the confederate flag does not make you a racist or a bigot or a hater, most will disagree but I don't care, comparing it to a nazi flag is just stupid and ridiculous and very stupid. I don't own a confederate flag but simply labeling someone who does with the vile names and comments, makes me wonder who is the real hater.
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John Owens
I have lived in the rural south all of my life, except for 3 years overseas when I was a child. I have never EVER seen anyone flying the Confederate Naval Jack commit any atrocity whatsoever. I've never seen a white person oppress a black person or a Hispanic person, other than police on news videos, and some of those police were black. I have never watched white people dancing to songs with lyrics about oppressing or killing people because they are different. I have black and brown kin and love them and treat them with the true respect that comes from knowing their behavior and values, not the shallow respect that accompanies political correctness. Being offended doesn't mean you have a good reason to be offended, and aligning yourself with a cause doesn't mean it is a noble cause. If you think the Confederate Battle Jack is offensive, it is because you have been taught to think it is offensive, not because it IS offensive. It is a piece of cloth--a fairly attractive piece of cloth. It does not represent white supremacy any more than the African flags represent black supremacy or the rainbow flag represents homosexual supremacy, or the Mexican flag represents Mexican supremacy. How much herd mentality can you permit yourself to follow? Like a bunch of lemmings. If you want respect, you had better treat people with respect, and that means edit your own rhetoric BEFORE you allow it to come out of your mouth or come out in print. If the people you love to call haters were REALLY haters, you'd be hiding under your beds. Just TRY to think, even though you have been taught NOT to do so.
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RJ
I disagree with the tainted story being told. Yes slavery became a later issue in the war! What is forgotten is why the southern states left the union- The issue was "states rights". Contrary to what is bing taught today as being the slavry issue, Not until the union was losing the war did they allow for abolition issue to become a rallying point and created black units- Of course segrrragated- My family fought for states rights not slavery- It was on its way out because Maxine's were replacing slaves. Bigots are everywhere there are where uneducated idiots exercise there hatred- More prominent in the north today. Stop drinking the koaid!!!!
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E.
This is the issue with Americans these days. All of the sudden people can no longer fly a confederate flag because it offends some people. The flag never stood for racism or slavery, it stood for southern pride. It meant being proud to live in the south. What ever happened to our 1st Amendment rights? Freedom of speech gives us the ability to express ourselves symbolically also. If you ask any person with a passion for the south, they will tell you that the flag simply means their southern pride, nothing racist. The idea that it must come down because some people are uneducated, or simply unaware of the meaning, is outrageous. Personally, I am offended by seeing the LGBT flag flying all around and being thrown in my face. I don't believe in gay marriage and I don't believe it's right, but as American citizens, I respect that it is their constitutional right to be able to fly their flag. If their can be such a thing as gay pride, why can't their be southern pride? As far as I'm concerned, this is America and I still have my freedom of speech, so no one can tell me whether or not I can fly a flag in love for the southern states.
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Daniel ybarra
Simple solutons for simple minds. Let's rear down the pyramids in Eygpt since those are considered symbols of slavery as well.
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Herb Moyer
You see trying to remove the Confederate Flag as removing a symbol of hate, others see it as cultural terrorism and an attack against freedom. How can a flag stand for both slavery and freedom? It's a complex situation and WILL NOT be solved by one side trying to destroy symbols that they don't agree with. This will only cause further division and I am ashamed that themonastery has taken this position of division.
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Walter Green
I think the most important part of the entire discussion is that hate is hate. If we ban the Confederate Naval Jack, which is what most people are waving, because people were enslaved under it, then we need to ban the current United States flag. The Confederacy lasted for five years; prior to that and until after the end of the war, slavery was legal in the United States for the period 1781-1865. Which bears the greater weight of history? Just in pure numbers it is the United States.
But let's go beyond this. Which nation has discriminated against more ethnic groups? As a nation the United States did its best to exterminate its Native American population, actively discriminated against each wave of new immigrants, including Irish, Germans, Scandinavians, Jews (where we turned away refugees from Hitler's Germany because it was politically expedient at the time), Chinese, and Hispanics.
If you are not familiar with the history of the Eugenics movement, I suggest that any person who is a religious leader should study it. Good Americans, under the sanction of government, developed racial and racial laws that branded anyone who was not pure white as colored, eliminated the history of our native population, and introduced loathsome policies to deal with those imagined to be defective. Forced sterilization of defectives under the color of governmental approval continued in the United States into the 1970s.
And think about our own LGBT population - this year a legislator in a certain state proposed legislation that would make killing of a LGBT person no longer a crime in that state. American legislators and religious leaders have exported this particular brand of hate in the form of advice to African nations on how to criminalize, imprison, and execute members of their own LGBT populations.
We have a candidate for President who denounces all Hispanic migrants as rapists and murderers. And even though some haters wave what they believe to be the Confederate flag, the same people wave the United States flag often at the same time and place to justify the return to "our," not "their," country. The appalling record of genocidal lynching throughout the United States well into the 1960s was conducted in many cases with the approval of governmental officials who flew United States flags from their office buildings.
If we are getting rid of flags, I think honesty and decency suggests we need to get rid of all the symbols of hate and oppression, including the US flag. Otherwise we are being historically hypocritical at best.
The lesson for us as ministers of our particular faiths is that fear and hate and rejection of that which is not like us is a normal human condition. We have a particular responsibility not to foster this. At the same time we must view the record of our predecessors with humility, understand that social conditions and values change with time, and work to help facilitate that change. Simple condemnation of a word or a flag does not achieve this, especially when we are shallow in our understanding or dishonest in our choice of targets.
Two points in context - there is really no single Confederate Battle Flag. The units of the Army of Northern Virginia carried regimental flags that were square in shape and had the familiar saltire and stars pattern. It is not correct to term this a battle flag, any more than it is correct to call the current regimental colors of US Army units battle flags. Further, the other Confederate armies carried flags that had evolved in their theater of operations, and resisted any attempt to change to a national standard regimental flag. If you want to ban all flags that were carried in battle by Confederate regular or irregular units, there are a lot of flags to ban.
Second - great-grandfathers of mine served on both sides in the war. All went on to successful careers afterwards and made significant contributions to the United States in industry, medicine, and law. Confederates were not all evil, members of the United States forces were not all good. Both sides had slavery. Both sides committed atrocities. Both sides fought with great gallantry in causes they believed in. Both sides did acts of great humanity. Man is flawed; it is our responsibility to help our congregants understand where we have been and work to get all of us to a better, more just, place.
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Luis
Hatred will always be hatred we need no flags no symbols or no statues to inform us of our and differences with each other intolerance is the disease for which knowledge is the cure to counter these symbols these stereotypes these classifications of social ethnic status only love will prevail here love for our neighbors love for our community and love for our families.
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Leroy
It is easy for people to jump on the bandwagon of spite and ignorance on both sides of the argument. Society is perpetuating the hate because ill-informed people continue to yell the same rhetoric they have for many years. No one side is 100% right, but we have to have it slammed down our throats when it becomes a convenience for TV and those who have a message they can attach to a situation. It is an opportunistic leaching of a single persons actions. Does this mean that when any one of any race hurts others with a Tshirt on that identifies a large retailer or maybe even known historical figure that the entire history is negated. Maybe the retailers that have profited from years of selling these items should return any financial gain back to the customer who purchased, or better yet appease the “15 minute of fame” seekers and give the money to someone they feel deserves it.
Don’t accept someone else’s version of the truth no matter if it is on TV or Internet, do your own research and make your own conclusion.
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Todd Benoit
It is history, we have the right to learn it.
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Wayne
Understanding you have the RIGHT to post this. Doesn't make it RIGHT. You are only looking at this one way. Why not use this to teach a real lesson rather than to spread hate. I'm ashamed to have spent money with you now. You are absolutely right hate is hate in all forms including this post.
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Edward Fair
I strongly disagree with this viewpoint by ULC. The confederate flags was carried by many in the cvil war including hundreds if nit thousands Africa Americans who proudly fought side by side with other Americans. Whether you like the flag or not it is apart of American history, removing it does nothing to change it. How far do you intend to go in removing it, from flag poles, off cars, out of history books and so on. If the African Americans believe the to be racism and their mind is this narrow then we have many more problems. I get offended by black history month, the black entertainment television network and many other things and items that have been created by blacks for blacks but I am not permitted to claim racism, why not its the same thing. Why can't a white person be in charge of the NAACP? If I was to create a white entertanmentntelevision network of specify September as white history monthi would be called a racist. It cannot be both ways. The flag does not represent racism but a symbol of southern pride, it was designed hand designated the flag of the south wen our states were divided, when their was confederate mone, confederate uniforms, Confederate weapos s, the list goes on and on. We need to wake up and stop being so arrow minded. If we continue blaming everything on race we will see civil war 2 here in the United States.
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JG
What a bunch of absoute liberal trash, Monastery. You disappoint me and anyone else that doesn't go BAA and grazes grass all day long. Are you ok with taking down the Stars and Stripes, which to Native Americans and Asian Americans represents racism, hate, mass slaughter, forced internment and worse? No? Then you are hypocrites, plain and simple. I expect better from you, or used to, at least.
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Michael Jones
The Confederate battle flag is a part of our American History whether we like it or not. I could use some of the same argument about the American flag and what it means to native Americans. It was under that flag Custer slaughtered innocent Indians multiple times before he got Sioux'd.No one alive today has ever been a slave or slave owner. Is there a time in our history where we as a people failed to be humane and honorable??? Yes, but we changed and a good search of history tells us two things. One, Civil War was fought primarily for States Rights. The southern states didnt want Washington dictating policy to them. Second was slavery in which many were not true slaves but indentured servants. Even blacks owned indentured servants to work the land and most were given property at the end of their service. I can think of more important things that cast hatred across the land. ISIS being the big one right now. Blaming a flag for the killing is smoke and mirrors. Evil is the killer and evil is in the hearts of people who kill, torture, and rape like ISIS is doing. Until mankind can get a handle on evil, nothing will change in this world. We can blame the weather, guns, baseball bats, knives, flags or anything else we want but it will not change EVIL. One last little bit of information. The Emancipation Proclamation ONLY Freed the slave in the Succeeded states which after they left the Union, were not governed by President Lincoln. Ohio didnt give up slavery until two years after the Civil war.
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melinda
you are helping bring more racial unrest. it's a flag, it's in our history. learn the history before posting something like this. yes there is a difference in the two flags. and really some people need to think of how things are in this way. anyone living on and relying on the government to pay their bills and feed them are nothing but the governments slaves.
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Doc C
I agree. God loves us whites. Blacks can go to Africa if they don't like our beautiful Confederate flag. It should fly everywhere. It is class. It is not just history it is now and here to stay.
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Robert
I am curious as to why people who find the Confederate flag as a sign of hatred and racism dont seem to know ALL of the history of America. America was a slave nation for 74 years under the American flag as it was at that time. We as Americans will go to war and battle other countries for the beliefs we have under "Old Glory"! Im a proud American who would fight for our flag but that doesnt mean I still in 2015 have honor for what it once stood for( racism,hatred,slavery,etc..)! Why must people come into an area (interloper) and violate the Law , she said she was Happy to violate the law, to remove the CSA Battle flag from its place on the State House grounds. So with that said who is wrong and operating using a distorted sense of being?How would someone feel if their deceased relative had their American flag( as placed for serving in War) be removed from their Tombstone? Must we always let some try to bring back the past and insert their own beliefs or should we learn from the past and move forward as one? Should we demolish the Lorraine Motel due to the hatred that occurred there, MLK's place of assassination? Hatred is alive and well just not some much in the direction that some wish people to believe!
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Robert
in SC the Battle flag was taken off of the Statehouse dome and placed in a area with the Confederate monument on the Statehouse grounds in 2000 in an agreement with all parties involved at the time. That was done and yet the NAACP has maintained its Boycott's of things being done in SC. It doesnt matter where the flag is placed if it isnt the flag it will be something else to keep the "fire of hatred and anger" going. The Confederate states lost the Civil war and that in itself should signify to those haters that supporters of the Flag are only seeing the Flag as a symbol of respect for the fallen dead, both white and black fighters who took up arms and /or supported the cause. Disrespect seems to abound for ALL true Southerners Ancestors by those uninformed folks! People mention the British flag being taken down after their loss, well that statement answers itself. They were BRITISH, their flag belonged across the water not here, its all amazing as to how determined those uneducated about the past wish to keep hatred going! All Ministers should remember what year this is and try to project a more understanding and loving image.
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Becki
Comparing the Confederate flag to the Nazi regime is the most ridiculous thing I have seen yet. I'm not sure how we came around to these conclusions, but it is appalling that only one race is offended, yet all have suffered in some way. Wake up sheeple and open your eyes to what is going on around you. They are using your hate to blind you to what they are doing behind your back. Laws are being passed with no backlash because no one is paying attention.
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Stephen Fisher
Well said Walter. I would just add that most of the men who fought for the south were not "fighting for slavery" but for the love of their brother, cousin, father, etc. that decided to join the fight to repel an invader that had adopted "total war" as a method of operation.
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Paul
I have very little interaction with that flag other than watching the dukes of hazard as a kid I have a little brother who is African American who lives in Tennessee and he is very offended by that flag and knowing history I understand why it's a symbol of racism of the horrible things that have and will be done but the problem is not the flag it's the people remove the flag racism won't go away. it's in the people
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Jimmy Williams
Hate is in a persons heart. Blaming an inanimate object for all the worlds problems is ludicrous. Should we wipe away all the Southern history because it offends some people? Ask the American Indians what offends them. When I was a child I was taught sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me. What happened? We have a society that will never be happy and are offended by anything and everything. The rest of the world laughs at us because we're stuck on the issue of race. Everyone wants to be treated as an equal, which is definitely Gods plan but at the same time people have groups that intentionally separate them from the mainstream of society. NAACP, LULAC and countless others plus they demand to hyphenate their ethnic origin which separates them once again from mainstream society. My ancestors came here to embrace America for the freedoms it gave, before it was even a country. Sure, removing the Confederate Battle Flag may make everyone whose offended come together for a moment. Then they will once again focus on something else offensive and demand its removal. That is not the America my ancestors came to embrace. That is exactly the reason they left Ireland and France to come here. Persecution for their beliefs. If someone has hate in their heart you need to address that and try and fix it through Gods word. There is plenty of hate on BOTH sides of this argument but taking material things away from people, no matter how noble your cause will just cause more division.
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Edward Fair
Why has ULC Universal Life Ministry even taken sides on this issue? Are we not ministers of God. That man was created equal within his own image. Getting involved in everyday matters is not what we as ministers should do. We should not way in on any civil matter not related to the bible. I don't agree with the side ULC has taken and the position they claim we have. If you want o publish an article on any common day civic matter then do not title it ULC, this is wrong. It you want o publish a part of the bible then by all means use ULC. But please stop putting what you think our thoughts in publications it's not right.
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Cliff Downing
Those that don't remember history are destined to repeat it. We must allow these reminders of the past and the lessons learned to continue to exist as a reminder of where we've been and how far we've come. Revising history to show favoritism to the winner of a war is a dangerous path and brings about comparisons to 1984. We are already seeing signs of the ill effects of not properly teaching our children what REALLY happened. Our youth no longer understand nor appreciate the true meaning of freedom and you'll be hard pressed to find the kind of enthusiasm needed to insure our continued freedom among the youth of today. Simply put, they don't care because they don't understand why they should care. One of our founding fathers stated "Anyone that is willing to exchange their freedom for comfort deserves neither"...... erasing the reminders of the lessons of the path because they are uncomfortable to see will ultimately result in our returning to the mistakes of the past. To quote another famous line.... "Teach your children well......."
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mike Cranford
I have to admit that some minority groups such as the KKK have used this flag to spread bigotry and hate, I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that there are many of us, myself included, that only wish to honor our ancestors and the scarifies they made. It is interesting to me to note that the South did indeed fight for States's rights which included slavery at the time, and the States rights issue are still at the fore front of several recent Supreme Court ruling. Removing the flag or any other symbol does not cure the problem of racism in America.
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Màrtainn (@forensic1976)
Just my personal opinion, but I always though it stood for something deeper than hate, don`t rightly know why but I love this flag, always have...also what people have to realize is 99% of the KKK march with the american flag
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Jim Kingsley
I totally agree with you. The CBF was not a racist object. It was the choice of some people to make it a racist object and a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon as American like to do before researching history. The problem will still exist on both side until people learn to work together. BUT our leaders must allow the people to work together and find common ground. Instead our leaders point out the differences and focus on the division of the people, thus creating a wider divide. Let us not act as our leaders do, let us act as one and lend a hand to any brother that has stumbled. Only then will we be able to stop racism. Racism is not just White on Black but anyone who dicriminates against others. It all starts with respect and trust in your fellow brother.
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Kay Lee
The media makes a big deal and we blindly follow. Who do you think removing the confederate flag is going to stop when they get the urge to destroy their lives by hurting other people. It's a pointless and ignorant campaign in propaganda. If we begin to go around banning everything that offends someone, the world will be illegal. Get a grip. The mess society is in is more to blame for that kid's shooting than any symbol or flag.
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Màrtainn (@forensic1976)
Just make sure to burn, ban or desicrate the stars and stripes as well for all the atrocities the United states has committed over the years and especially the war crimes of Mr. Bush
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Kim
All this talk about what the flag stands for is really ridiculous. If the flag offends someone don't look at it . As some one posted on FB This flag offends you, your pants down around your legs offends me. There is always going to be something that others are offended by. What red means to me could mean something entirely different to someone else. What everyone should be doing is trying to spread love and peace and not dissention.
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Doc C
White people are superior. Whites are the chosen ones. Chosen by God. Says so in the Bible.
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Sean
I see an ocean of ignorance and hostility in these posts. The flag that flies over the US this moment is a symbol of an empire that has caused more death and destruction, as well as hatred than the cause of the confederacy ever dreamed. Forgiveness is completely tossed out the window for those who fought on the side of the confederacy during the civil war, which indeed was fought over the 10th amendment to the now defunct constitution. I do not promote nor condone slavery, racism nor hatred. I also do not condone the destruction of history, which reminds humanity not to make the same mistakes twice, nor the manipulation of history to suit the needs of a nation. Good luck everyone. While everyone is busy fighting over a piece of cloth, the rights of the American people are being eroded. If you don't like slavery, my advice is to forget about the stupid flag and focus on what is happening right now, lest you awaken one day and find yourselves even more of a slave to this corrupted government than you already have become.
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Margaret
Wow! You do not condone slavery! Wow! Twisted.
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J
Hate in any form is hate! Darkness in this form is devoid of light! Ignorance Comes in a multitude of culture,backgrounds,dogma etc! People are not born racist! It's taught ! May each and every beautiful human being on this planet practice Forgiveness! Corny,cliche maybe in My heart) love has and always will win) evil backwards you find that it means to live! Be blessed my universal brothers and sisters!
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JG
BAA. Hear that, that's the sound of liberal sheep bleating. This article is both racist and offensive and poorly written. If the lib-stapo is on a flag downing kick, you'd better add the Stars and Stripes to that list, as it represents racism and hated to the Native Americans and Asian American that were "displaced", "interred" and/or "slaughtered".
If not, we'll then you're nothing but a liberal hypocrite wasting valuable oxygen that could be better breathed by someone who knows better.
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Doc C
White conservative people are way smarter than anyone else. You are so SO right! The rest don't deserve to breathe and will burn in hell.
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Herb
Tyranny will stop at nothing to enslave us all!
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John Owens
The pyramids of Egypt were built by slaves, and no one is wanting to tear them down.
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Reese Dorrycott
ISIS wants to tear them down, along with anything that isn't Islamic. That is religious hate, which is sad because Islam used to be the most tolerant religion in Europe and the Mid-East.
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Jim
I have been saying this for years. Not that any slavery is right, to often we only focus on slavery in our country, when it was going on long before this country was doing it.
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Mycroft
Part of history piece of cloth. It is what it is. An inanimate object. Symbol of whatever to anybody who wants to make political hay. It's still just a piece of cloth. Anything more and you're the hater. You're the terrorist attacking Americans from within. You're the socialist destroying our constitution and way of life. GO AWAY!
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Mohammed
You go away. People like you need help.
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LetGo
Everybody suffered during the Civil War. During the Civil War white neighbors were killing each other for taking sides. It was a scary time. You didn’t know if your neighbor was going to kill you. Or if the soldiers would harm you.
You can see my young ancestors in their teens and twenties buried in family cemeteries. I am born because my minister gr gr grandfather was killed for being accused a traitor and his wife and 3 kids were spared. Many books are written about all the skirmishes and killings from family archives. Hidden facts. My white ancestors are in these books. Do I deserve any gains from what was done to my relatives? No. Move on for a better future and don’t dwell in the past. Acknowledge it and Honor it. Stop bickering. It’s too complicated.
So let it go. Let the angers go. There were other war flags too. Let’s keep the war flags and relics in museums and unite under one. Let’s not start another Civil War over pettiness and hateful politics. As Pres. Obama said, There are no blue States or red States, it is the United States!
Copy this and paste it in your social media. Our future depends on acceptance, understanding and forgiveness. May love prevail.
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Reese Dorrycott
Actually, that is not the Confederate flag, it is the Confederate BATTLE flag, just as the Rising Sun is the Japanese Battle flag. The actual Confederate National flag came in three versions and in no case do these flags mean hate more that the Canadian Maple Leaf does. The war of succession had little to do with slavery, slavery was already being phased out as it by then cost more to own a human being than to hire them for a season, it was a war of succession forced by bullying tactics of the Northern states keeping industry and other rights out of the South. If you wish to find the core seed of Slavery, look no further than England.
I do not support any kind of hate, yet I am pounded daily by it being as I am not a Christian, Jew or Muslim and I am Welsh, not White. Now to regard REDNECK, which I am not, how many of you are aware that the term refers to coal miners of the North (including my family) who marched on coal mine owners demanding better pay, safer working conditions and the right to be paid in US Currency, not mine script. They tied red bandannas around their neck so they could tell who was a miner and who was a mine owners paid bully boys when the battle commenced between them.
Please learn your true history, or be forced to repeat it.
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Minister James Owen
I would like to say,first of all I am not a racist and I am from the South. I am proud to be from the South. Things were done wrong to the Blacks back years ago. Racism is alive in this country. The media keeps the fire burning. Check the news if something happens to a Black person by a White person it is showed on every network for weeks and is labeled a hate crime or racism. If something is done to a White person by a Black person it maybe showed one time with nothing said about color of either person. All accounts of what happened during the civil war was mostly handed down by word of mouth and then written down later on. Everyone knows what happens to a story over time ,things are added to it to make it sound worse than it was.Try it,get six or seven people together and tell one person something and let him tell the next and so on. You will have a complete different story when it gets to the end. This Country has bent so far over to make things right for the Blacks that now the Whites are being discriminated against.Example BET, Ms Black America, Ebony Magazine and so on. Do you think the Whites could have a Wet, Ms White America or a Ivory Mag. I am not trying to be against anyone.The Blacks were brought here by the Dutch who got them from their on people and sold them to the South and North. I hate the N word and do not use it so why do the Blacks call each other this word that is a racist word. Respect you self and your brothers. The N word along with a few other words that I don't say is used all the time by Blacks. And you wonder why people feel the way they do. I listened to a conversation at a McDonalds on 06/27/2015 between three Blacks, one female and two males. In five minuets the N word was used twenty times,MF thirteen times, white crackers six times. Now tell me who may be racist. Comparing the CSA flag to the Nazi flag or ISIS flag is wrong. The CSA did not commit the things to the Blacks like the Nazi's did to the Jews or what ISIS has done to other people. Why do the Blacks Riot every time something happens to a Black person and destroy peoples property that had nothing to do with what happened or shoot Police Officer's that had nothing to do with what caused the riot's.Do you see White people doing these same thing's? I know what happened to the Black people during the time before and after the civil war was bad but people I was not there and did nothing to the Black people so why hold me or anyone else to blame for what happened then?If you are not happy where you live and the heritage of the South move to a better place.Plain and simple
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Doc C
Yes indeed! Poor poor white people! We are so discriminated against! Life is so much easier for blacks.
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Brian
Where has all the logic gone? In it's simplest form, a symbol is just a symbol. Whatever it provokes is based on what individuals think. This symbol has no words and can't be defined as hate speech. I've seen signs and walked away without a scratch. The people who are physically harming others should be held accountable for their actions. The article on this site was posted by radicals. It's biased, close minded and absurd. Dixie is beautiful.
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Mark wease
If were going to ban the confederate flag for representing hatred wed have to ban all flags across the globe! I mean really! The united states flag was even worse than the confederate flag which by the way was used to oppose unjust laws perpetrated on a major portion of the united states population by a overzealous government, and slavery like all wars was used as the propaganda platform to rationalize the wholesale slaughter of southerners! By the time the southern states started using it the vile practice of slavery was already gasping its last breaths! But it was used as the reason to kill each other! However the united States flag was used for many years after that to kill, rape and subjegate the indigenous people of this land for many years before and after the confederacy was enacted! So if were gunna ban the confederate flag I say we'll have to ban every flag everywhere just to make it all equal! Cuz that's what were all about right, EQUALITY, NON JUDGMENT, AND FREEDOM TO BELEIVE IN WHAT YOU CHOOSE! Cuz unless I missed some pretty important lesson in history class (which I didn't) isn't that why america was formed was because of our ancestors fleeing other parts of the world to escape religious persecution, and isn't religion the views one holds dear to their heart in the eyes of GOD! Not the views one holds dear in the eyes of government (who by the way is the one pushing to abolish the confederate flag! Who many southerners view as a representation of their heritage good or bad) JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED! LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE! THERE IS NO LAW ABOVE THE LAW OF GOD!
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James grimes
The guy who killed the innocent people in the church was a racist ignorant fool. But you can't blame all of white America for everything. Most whites are not racist. And most blacks arnt either. But there are some and will always be. You can't change that by taking down a flag. You can't label people that because they fly that flag without even understanding what the flag really represents. But the real issue is the government doest have the rite to tell a state what it can do. And to force it to comply with the all powerful goverment. But this is all liberal agenda. Why not ask Arkansas to take down there flag. Or cancel confederate flag day which bill Clinton signed into law. Or tell Isis hey stop raping and killing black Christians by the thousands daily. Or tell the black panther party to take down the kill all whites hate all whites off there web page.Because this is all for a socialist goverment to take control of the sheepal. Stop the hate. Martin Luther King wanted equality for all that no race be better than another no religion be better than another for everyone to live in peace. God bless everyone only your heart can change another's heart.
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Doc C
All liberals are created by the devil. They will burn in hell for eternity and a hundred years extra. Because I said. Pickaninny breaths too oh ya.
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Dawna Lockhart
I was born in New Jersey but raised in Alabama. I received a BS from the University of Montevallo with a History major.
I do believe it is important to remember the past accurately. The flag in question was originally square and was the regimental flag of North Virginia. In 1863, the Southern Cross was skewed into a rectangle (the form we see today) and flown from CSA Naval ships as the Confederate Jack. Then, troops started carrying the CJ into battle, and it became known as the Confederate Battleflag.
It was never the national flag of the CSA, so it is historically inaccurate to call it the Confederate flag. The CSA national flag had three forms. All of them were mothballed after the war and have never been flown again. The Confederate Jack disappeared for nearly 100 years. It was only brought out of mothballs during the 1960s in direct protest of Civil Rights legislation.
You will not find the accurate history of the Confederate Jack in any elementary or high school text book. Even in college, no one thought it worthwhile to mention that it was the naval flag or had been disused for a century. Those who see it as a symbol of Southern heritage are mostly unaware of the 100 year absence. They saw it when they were children, and their parents told them it is a symbol of Southern pride. The historian in me started doing what we do and researched. So, perhaps the best course of action here is to not call all who fly it racist and offer alternative solutions.
The Confederate Jack has a place in history. It would be appropriate to fly it at Confederate memorials and monuments located at Confederate Naval sites. However, the Confederate Stars and Bars (first Confederate national flag) or third flag (has the Southern Cross on it in the upper left corner on a white field with a red stripe down the left side) would be most appropriate at inland monuments. While still representative of the Confederacy, they are not the symbol of hate the Confederate Jack has become. Either would be better as symbols of Southern heritage. There are good things in the South, positive traditions, and wonderful things about the South that do deserve to be celebrated. We must acknowledge the ugly bits but celebrate the wonderful.
That's just my opinion.
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justin ashbaugh
How do I get off the mailing list for this because I will not sit here and read this. Why don't you people read up on your history I know what this flag means. Yes in the 70's the ilk did side with neo Nazi's but they no longer do. Yes there were black confederates who were paid and a lot of them use there pay to buy land from there owner. If you don't like this oh well take me off this site.
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Joey Keenum
I am deeply offended by your post and especially the pictures posted as well resembling the Nazi and Isis flags. How dare you!?! The Confederate Flag does NOT represent HATE. It represented a country all on it's own to fight for their state rights. It represented being a rebel - meaning not going down without a fight! And sadly, to some it was passed down from generation to generation to hate the flag as well. The confederate flag represents too many viewpoints. It's the way the economy was back then and I am sick and tired of feeling like I have to apologize for it. How many other countries today still have issues with slavery involving women, children, and many others? Especially in sex-trafficking. It's really sad that too many people were raised to hate the confederate flag. If you would read your true history books and not watch Hollywood films who side on one issue, rather than all, you might find that many slave owners treated their people very well; in fact, many of the free-slaves continued to work for their previous owner, who became their employer. Many of the free-slaves took upon their previous owner's last names to become citizens. So please do me a favor, if you are representing a church, don't you think it would be best to state the facts of your article from every angle, rather than your opinion? That would be true journalism.
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Doc C
You know it. I agree with everything you wrote. I don't hate anyone. I just want them sent back to Africa where they belong.
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Ed
Wow. You want to talk about propaganda.
First and foremost, the "Confederate Flag" [herein "the flag"] was a battle flag, meaning it was a flag used by the army and navy of the south.
The flag has nothing to do with slavery. There were slaves in the north, as well as south. And have you ever wondered why the "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! Also, "border states," like Maryland may have still had slavery.
On the subject of slavery, how about: - The first black slave owner of "the colonies" was, in fact, a black man. Instead of setting his "indentured servant" free, he had the courts help him keep the servant for life, laying the foundation for slavery. Blacks, whites, and even native Americans had slaves. - Whites, especially the Irish, "political dissidents," and "the undesirables of society" were also kidnapped, and sold into slavery. In fact, white slaves, since they had less distance to be taken, were sold for 5, whilst slaves from Africa were 50. That meant they cost more, and that they were often treated better than the "white servants," because they cost more to replace. In fact, black slaves were often treated much better than poor whites.
You probably also believe that the Swastika is only a symbol of hate, having no knowledge of beliefs of the "far east," like Hinduism.
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Doc C
I love the Swastika. We should replace the American and Confederate Flags with it. That would be pure. That would be justice.
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Sam
This flag is a part of history. What it stands for has been taken several different interpretation from all everyone. People have the wright to their opinion but get the facts first. This flag offends people of every color but has any thing that Martin Luther King might be offensive to people too. QUICK TRYING TO CHANGE THE PAST AND MAKE THE FUTURE BETTER!
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Nels
To many American Indians, the United States flag represents racism and genocide... And they're view has merit.
I think we need to be careful when trying to paint an entire culture and people with one very broad brush. There are southerners who are ashamed of slavery, but still view the confederate battle flag as part of their culture.
This controversy feels slightly Orwellian in nature to me.
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Nels
Darn autocorrect - their view, not they're view...
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Bill Bagly
It does not matter if someone sees the confederate flag as "hate" or "heritage", as long as that flag flies it represent "division" among the citizens of this country.
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Doc C
You be a Yanky huh? Sick folks trying to remove my flag.
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Reverend Patricia Danielle Doyle
Reverend Patricia D. Doyle
As a child, I remember seeing a child from Africa for the first time and the excitement, joy that I felt that God had put so many different people in the world; so many cultures to learn from and enjoy! You could not have imagined my disappointment when I was told I was not allowed to hang around them because they were different; when that's exactly why I did anyways! I survived extreme child abuses by my father, 5 uncles and foster care. I survived because I learned at a young age that my one true Father is God, and God Loves me, so no matter what anyone could say or do could ever hurt me. I don't hate all men because of a handful, infract I have * children and 2 are black, and all make me proud!
After Foster Care I lost myself for a while in life because I was told over and over that because what I went through I would end up on drugs and prostitution. The Social Workers even scared my mother into believing the same lies, until I had no where to turn but the streets, (or so I thought). For many of years I was hooked on cocaine and alcohol hitch hiking across the U.S.A, and Canada in and out of jails, and treatment centers, talking to God Crying out to Him for help. I had placed my children with family some were taken from me at birth. By the end of my addiction I had been stabbed 9 or 10 times grazed by 3 bullets I had more gun held on me and in me then I care to remember, I preformed C.P.R on close to 50 people, each time praying to God and I always seemed to bring them back even the ones with no pulse. The hardest part of them surviving death is when they end up overdosing days, or weeks later anyways.
It was one final cry for help to Jesus, (you know one of thoughts full body uncontrollable messy cries), when I herd a loud voice yell out FREE WILL!!! There it was the whole time the answer that seemed impossible to reach or hear, a answer that was so easy I felt a fool not to see it so clear. I took the same determination into educating myself, going back to College at the age of 30 not even finishing high school. Now I have many College Certificates all with Honors, Many Diplomas my lowest Grad Point Average is 93% in Police Sciences Law Enforcement And Protection, Drug/sex Counselling 96%, Psychology/Social Work 95%, Child Psychology 94%, and specialized training in trauma, Thought Patterns (deals with the blind spots in the way we think,) and I am a published poet, my poems come from the heart and inspire. I was very Blessed because I had already completed a couple of College courses before my Doctor ordered an M.R.I. because of memory problems and migraines and the M.R.I. showed that I had frontal lobe brain damage to both frontal lobes. If I had that news before I don't know if I would Have even tried? This just happens to be the part of the brain where the cells do not regenerate, but with Jesus there is always a way and I am Proof of that. After everything I have lived through I have forgiven and prayed for all thoughts that have harmed me, and I have asked for forgiveness, and prayed to Jesus when forgiveness was not given. I help A lot of people to overcome obstacles in their own lives. I have 6 of my 8 children in my life today, and it turns out I am a good mother with a big heart, so now I understand why I never felt like I belonged on the streets addicted to drugs, because God was calling me for a very long time, I just could not hear him over all the negativity!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE AS THE HUMAN RACE CAN ONLY LEARN FROM HISTORY: We can not learn from our future as it has not yet happened. Most or all Countries have A or ONE FLAG that represents their Country as a whole. The U.S.A. had its civil war and the South lost and the FLAG of The South Fell, and a NEW FLAG was born that would represent a new set of values and morals that the U.S.A. stands for now. When something including a FLAG hangs drenched in the blood of so many innocent lives that flag belongs in a different kind of museum, a museum that also has things with A. Hitler, and this party leader in France right now that is trying to follow in Hitler's Footsteps. A symbol or flag should not carry so much weight or hatred, but they do, and I know this I have been to North & South C as well as Mississippi in my times of travel. Anything Covered In The Blood Of The Innocent Needs To Be Destroyed- Just As Any Foot Hold That Can Be Freely Given To The Devil To Attack God's Innocent Children!!!!! Theses Flags Are Foot-Holds For Satan In Any Culture and In Any True Faith in GOD!!! Why Continue To Hurt The Decedents of the People That You Shipped in from their homes to work your lands, now they pay taxes, vote, and still they have to look at that FLAG over their heads every single day. If we can not keep haltered from public view we will never achieve World Peace! No matter your Religion, or Race I Love You, and so does God, as long as you do not harm people in God's Name, God is the only Judge and if God wanted to wipe anyone out do you really think He needs YOUR HELP! Please get over your narcissistic self all ready LOL. Peace To All Man Kind.
Blessings From Reverend P. Doyle
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wickedpa
What happens when All of the perceived hate symbols are GONE but RACISM still exists do we do like Michael Jackson and bleach our skin White of Dye our skin Black ??
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Doc C
Dye my skin black? That is sick. Blacks are from the devil and I want NO PART OF THE DEVIL!
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Keith
My mother family fought for the south and my father's for the north. It is heritage for some of us. What they fought for 150 years was what they thought was right. You cannot compare the confederates to the nazi. The difference of 80 years between them. The confederate should not be ban if used the correct way and not in a hate crime way. Now it also should not be displayed in a government building. Let learn from these history lessons. Let make a better world for everyone. We cannot please everyone. Banning will cause a domino effect . What are we doing today that is political correct will be racist or hate crime 100 years from now.
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James grimes
Well if that's the case we should ban religion All together because someone some where is offended. Look at Michigan church bells offended Muslims . So they took them down only to put loud speakers that blare out 5 times a day the call to prayer. Well Christians are offended by that. But you don't see them demanding and burning down things. The American flag was also carried into that church. So we should ban it also. Maybe we should just let the government tell us what we should believe or think or every special interest group that doesn't like how we live. There is many things that we are all offended by every day. We're told we have to be tolerant of everyone. But the ones preaching tolerance are exempt from it. I think what people really should do is quit being so accepting of those who want to blame everyone else for every thing that's ever happened and live there lives getting along with one another. Because we are all gods children . And I'm Cherokee Indian by the way before you call me a racist. And even the redskins don't offend me. Because I'm tolerant of ignorance. I deal with it every day.
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irish
hey im irish how do you think i feel UAFASACH L.O.L
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John
First off, yes the Confederacy had slaves. Yes that was horrible and wrong. And no black people are not any different from white people. But despite the union's lack of slavery, life was no better for black people there than it was in the south. They still got lynched, looked down on, the authorities still saw them as inferior. The fact is we see the union as the good guys because the union won. And had the Confederacy won we'd be talking about whether the union flag was a racism icon, and slavery would be covered up or brushed over in history class.
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Lloyd Henson
Whatever happened to freedom of speech???
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Alex Benten
The Nazis didn't create the swastika, they borrowed it from other cultures and changed its meaning. When people see the swastika they don't say oh there's an ancient symbol from Hindu and Native American cultures. They immediately think Nazis. The Confederate flag is somewhat popular as symbol of Southern heritage. The problem is that the Confederate flag was created as a symbol of white dominance and remains so for many many people including white supremacy and separatist groups. No matter how many people try to make it about southern rock or southern pride or good ol' country folk, it's not. It's a symbol of hate. Whether you fly it with hate in your heart or not, others who see you flying it feel the hate that it represents.
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Lynn Ehrhart
Exactly! Southern pride is fine, but why that flag as the symbol? Find something new and positive.
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Laura
That flag is my heritage if you want to talk about the Nazis you should look at the Obama regime. people are forgetting that black fought for that flag also. Thereare so many people out there trying to be politically correct that we as a nation are becoming apathetic to any cause. if you people think that the Civil War was about slavery and not the economics of cotton you are sadly missed informed and are morons. The War of Northern Aggression was about economics not slavery, slavery was used as a catalyst. if you are going to gripe about a flag let us speak of the Mexican flag in front of government buildings in California and our stars and stripes were taken down.
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Mohammed
Laura you sad unintelligent racist.
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joseph ashby burris
i was born raised and will died in the south anyone can say what they feel and call what they want hate but like i said ive been here my whole life...i had to fight with packs of blacks growing up..ive watched how they crossed race lines and bullyed whites then theres the drugs and guns....i never made any of them do to much at all but anytime they can small town or city they hollar white hate...so im wrong for calling trash trash just like the fags yall people better get on your knees and pray to whatever god you have and dont get up till yourgod tells you to..my people didnt even come to the U.S. until after that north south thing was way over...but what they did to that flag was like rapeing ever red blooded white southner man woman and child...i do agree that the flag says im white and will stand my ground ..blacks can have events and call them black like black bike week they even have bet if they was a wet they would yell raise cain .
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Vicki Burleson
Prior to 1655 there were no legal slaves in the colonies, only indentured servants. Seven years was the limit that an indentured servant could be held. Anthony Johnson was a Negro from modern-day Angola. He was brought to the US to work on a tobacco farm in 1619. When Anthony was released he was legally recognized as a “free Negro” and ran a successful farm. In 1651 he held 250 acres and five black indentured servants. In 1654, it was time for Anthony to release John Casor, a black indentured servant. Instead Anthony told Casor he was extending his time. Casor left and became employed by the free white man Robert Parker. Anthony Johnson sued Robert Parker in the Northampton Court in 1654. In 1655, the court ruled that Anthony Johnson could hold John Casor indefinitely. The court gave judicial sanction for blacks to own slave of their own race. Thus Casor became the first permanent slave and Johnson the first slave owner. Whites still could not legally hold a black servant as an indefinite slave until 1670. In that year, the colonial assembly passed legislation permitting free whites, blacks, and Indians the right to own blacks as slaves. By 1830 there were 3,775 black families living in the South who owned black slaves. By 1860 there were about 3,000 slaves owned by black households in the city of New Orleans alone. You can research this for yourself. I think this pulls the rug out from under any reparation for slavery required from the WHITE man, and it also deflates the racial balloon, in my opinion.
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maverick twofeathers
What about what the white man did to the indian. We had our history taken away, told to learn to speak the white man's tougne, moved to reservations and killed to get our land all in the name of God. This removing the flag is pretty much the same. I'm waiting to see when the white man get's put on his reservation.
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Bailey
ULC - I'm a little disappointed in you for taking such an inflammatory political stance on this issue. I would agree that some people see the flag as a negative symbol; however, how can you continue to "do only that which is right" by labeling people who have a different opinion about a flag as pariahs. I personally have no opinion about what this flag means, as I have had the opportunity to live in both the North and the South. I have learned some interesting social and political matters by living in both places: while the South has more overt groups practicing bigotry, sexism, and racism, the North most definitely has a larger population that believes women, non-whites, and LGBT's are second class citizens. Mind you, the North is smart enough not to organize, whereas the South is more focused on the "traditions" of making their views known. Sadly, I don't believe any learned individuals will take the time to look past the politics and the "news media" to learn the truth about how their neighbors really feel on any issues.
In closing, I would like to make all of the people who would take the time to label a 150 year old flag of war as the supreme symbol of hatred and remind them that most of the products we use, at least in the USA, are made in China - quite possibly the worst haven of forced and child labor which has ever existed. Mind you, these labor practices are still the norm as I type and you read, and will most likely continue for many years.
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mike whitman
We should outlaw white sheets. That's what the KKK wears to intimate people so they must be evil. Most people just put them onto the bed, but the majority don't matter - just the offended few. So we should outlaw white sheets and bedspreads. Political correctness should not overrule common sense.
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ronald page
KNOW THE FACTS before YOU REACT! The Real Truth and history.......long but worth the READ.
Before I get started, I'm going to reference flags and banners in relation to importance in Holy scriptures. Lets look in the Bible at the book of Numbers Ch.1 and 2. Keep in mind as you read the word standard. Nu:1:52: And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents, every man by his own camp, and every man by his own standard, throughout their hosts. Nu:2:2: Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard, with the ensign of their father's house: far off about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch. Nu:2:3: And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah. Nu:2:10: On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur. Nu:2:17: Then the tabernacle of the congregation shall set forward with the camp of the Levites in the midst of the camp: as they encamp, so shall they set forward, every man in his place by their standards. Nu:2:18: On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies: and the captain of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud. Nu:2:25: The standard of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies: and the captain of the children of Dan shall be Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai. Nu:2:31: All they that were numbered in the camp of Dan were an hundred thousand and fifty and seven thousand and six hundred. They shall go hindmost with their standards. Nu:2:34: And the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses: so they pitched by their standards, and so they set forward, every one after their families, according to the house of their fathers.
Why is there so much fighting over a flag, a standard, an ensign, or banner? We all know a flag is a symbol. It represents something. but, What is it a symbol of, and what does it represent? In studying the Bible, the word flag isn't really used, the words standard, banner, and ensign occures frequently over and over. In the scripture just read, you will see the importance of a standard. When the children of Israel were encamped in the wilderness they camped everyone under their own standard and were centered around that tabernacle according to their standards as well. In Numbers 2:2 you notice that there were not only tribal standards, there were also family standards, so usually then, family carried two banners, one for their tribe, and the other for their father's house. And of course all of these families in Israel, all of these tribes then were centered around that tabernacle and when they marched, they marched according to the order that God gave. There were four leading tribes, the tribe of Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan. According to tradition, the Tribe of Judah had a lion on it. Hence e know Christ as the "Lion of the Tribe of Judah." the Tribe of Rueben had the likeness of a man's head, Ephraim had the figure of an ox, and Dan the symbol of an eagle. These can also be seen in the book of Ezekiel.
Lets also look at the book of Psalms. Psalms:20:5: We will rejoice in thy salvation, and in the name of our God we will set up our banners: the LORD fulfil all thy petitions. Psalms:60:4: Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah.
So banners or flags have a religious significance. The importance of a banner is: We set it up in the name of our God. It represents our theology. It represents our Christianity. God gives us a banner that we might display our banner. Not because of anything else but because of truth. There is a great deal of importance upon banners and flags and ensighn in the word of God.
No one can deny the importance based upon the word of God. But what about the Confederate flag? Is the Confederate flag a Christian symbol? Interestingly when one mentions the Confederate flag what usually comes up in their mind is the battle flag. Note this, there were five major flags. The first is the Bonnie Blue flag which was a solid blue flag with a single star in the middle. This flag was the unofficial flag of the Confederate States of America. It was never officially adopted, but was very popular. There was a a song written about it called "Bonnie Blue Flag." [is what is known as the first National Flag. It is sometimes called the Stars and Bars. There was a conflict with this flag as it looked like the Stars and Stripes.
The third is the second National Flag. It is referred to as the stainless banner. It had just symbol in the upper left hand corner and then it was pure white; it was silk. The problem with this flag was when the wind wasn't blowing it folded and looked like a truce flag.
The flag at number four was the third National Flag with the same stainless banner but with a red bar all the way down it and that is the one that is usually flying today. It was offically adopted, but few of them were issued. Most of these four flags are very rarely spoken of as most people don't even know of their existance. It is the battle flag that catches most of the flak.
Then we have the Confederate Battle Flag. This is the most popular one and is the subject of most flag arguments.
Next, I am going to tell you what the Confederate Battle Flag does not represent! I want to tell you what it does not symbolize! You will get historical proof for the next few facts. First of all, the Confederate Battle Flag IS NOT a racist flag. I know that you are saying, "The Ku Klux Klan uses the Confederate flag, and white supremacist groups use the Confederate flag." Well yes, they do use it, but they also use the Stars and Stripes as well as the Christian Flag. You have to ask, Why are the Stars and Stripes and Christian Flags not racist flags as well? I mean, if someone is going to be guilty by association, I can show you pictures of the KKK marching in Washington D.C. and there was not one Confederate Flag amoungst them. They are all carrying the Stars and Stripes, the U.S. Flag! If we are going to condemn the flag because the KKK and white supremacist groups use it, lets condemn all the flags. Be consistent! Condemn the Stars and Stripes, and the Christian flag. Here's another fact, Darlington Raceway at the Darlington 400 for years used the Confederate flag on its billboard and advertised itself as the Rebel Raceway. Does this therefore mean that all the Winston Cup drivers were racist? What about Scottish Soldiers? They wear the St. Andrews Cross on their British Army wear. Does that mean that all the Scottish Soldiers are racist as well?
Let me show you the enmity and the hatred and the venom that is being spoken aginst this flag. There is a web site named "The Confederate Flag Must Go!" It was put there by Jack Crawford, who evidently is a black man based upon his other writings and here is what he said. "The Confederate flag is a well recognized international symbol of racism, slavery, hatred, murder, and white supremacey. It should be outlawed, not just banned. Anyone flying it should be corrected in a manner that is usually reserved for overseers, slave masters,and leaders of lynch mobs responsible for the murder of children. Am I clear?" So, what is Mr. Jack Crawford saying? He is saying anyone flying this flag ought to be condemned to death. Mr. Crawford's statement is unhistorical. It is unconstitutional and it is untrue. Do you realize that most attackers of the flag are either motivated by historical ignorance, or pure unadulterated malice toward the South, it's symbols, it's heritage, and it's people. In 1944 a Harris Poll found that two-thirds of black Americans had no problem with the Confederate Flag. No problem at all! Why in the world make the flag an issue? In fact, there are numerous black Americans that speak out for the flag. One of them, R.J. Wilkins of Miami, had this to say. "I am a black man who is not offended by flying the Confederate Flag at the capitol in Tallahassee, Florida. The Confederate Flag is as much a part of my history as of any white persons. It may not represent the best of my race, or be held by some as a contribution to this country's greatness, but it does to me. My great grandparents were a part of the plantations. They worked in the cotton fields, cleaned the big houses and in many ways supported the developement of American society. We should let the Confederate Flag fly as a reminder of our American history both black and white."
Now let me give you another quote that another black man gave. This was quoted by W. Earl Douglas, a black journalist from Charlston, South Carolina. "If hate had been the prevaling emotion between the races, then it is a sage bet that the Confederacy would have never been born." Did you get that? He said that if hate had been the prevailing emotions between blacks and whites in the South, Then you could bet that the Confederacy would have never been born. Continueing, "Fortunately" he says, "There was love, understanding, and compassion. And the two greatest lies ever perpentrated by history are number one, that the South instigated the war, and two, that it was fought by the North for the purpose of freeing the slaves! The Negro was merly used as the excuse for that War while the real reason for it is reflected in every area of our lives where the tentacles of government form the bars of a new slavery. No! Don't furl that Confederate Battle Flag. Let it wave across the South to remind Americans that there exist here a yearning for liberty, freedom and independence that will not be denied. Let it fly as a testimonial to real men and real women who would rather work and fight and shed tears than to beg the government for charity." This man understood folks, he had more sense and knowledge than most people do today.
You see, the Confederate Battle Flag is not a racist symbol and it never has been. So, if you want racism, if you want hatred and white supremacy, I will tell you where to find it--under the Stars and Stripes, the U.S. Flag. Not under the Confederate flag. Do you realize the Emancipation Proclamation was signed on January 1, 1862. On August 14, 1862, less than five months before the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, Abraham Lincoln invited a number of leading blacks to the White House to give them his words of wisdom and demonstrate to them why he was attempting to colonize them back in Africa. By the way, Loncoln's Negro policy was to send them all back to Africa. That was his policy. William Seward, Wiliam Stanton, all of them the same thing. And so he invited these Negros to come to the White House to hear his words of wisdom and I am quoting verbatim what Lincoln said, listen carefull, he says, "Why should they leave this country? This is perhaps the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exist between almost any other two races. Wheather it is right or wrong I need not discuss. But this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both as I think. Your race suffers very greatly, many of them living amoung us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this is admitted it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. You are free men here I suppose. Perhaps you have been here to long free, all your lives. Your race is suffering, in my judgment, the greatist wrong inflicted on any people, but even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with a white race. The aspiration of men is to enhoy the equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of our race."--Abraham Lincoln. Lets translate that. He is saying blacks arn't equal to whites and never will be. That is what Lincoln just got through saying. Now listen to what Lincoln said in a speech in Charlston, Illinois, 1858. "I am not now , nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negros, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which will forever forbid the two races from living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man." - Abraham Lincoln. You see, the Confederate flag has never stood as a racist symbol. If you want racism, you go to the Stars and Stripes. In the south, although there was seperation, the blacks respected the whites, and the whites respected the blacks. There was also no trouble in the South back then nor in the 1960s untile the North came down and started stirring up trouble. So the confederate flag is not a racist flag. Secondly, the Confederate flag is not a flag of slavery. It does not represent slavery. Are you getting this? There was not one slave ever brought into this country under the Confederate flag. Every slave that was brought into this country was brought in by the Northern ships under the Stars and Stripes. There was not even a slave brought into this country on a Southern vessel! The slaves were brought into this country on Northern vessels under the Stars and Stripes.
Did you know that out of 224 years that slavery was legal in this country, only four of those years did the Confederate Battle Flag fly! And by the way, there were slaves in this country in 1620. What flag flew over the country more than any other flag during those 224 years? It was the Stars and Stripes It wasn't the confederate Battle Flag. It was the Stars and Stripes! Why hate and attack the Confederate flag. I mean, if you want to hate a flag for slavery, hate the Stars and Stripes! and if you want another, hate the British flag. Did you know that England was responsible for taking over 5 million blacks from Africa and selling them to every nation under the sun. Why not hate the Dutch, Portuguese, or the Spanish flags. They sold slaves. And if you want to hate a flag today, hate the Muslim flags because even today, Muslims are still involved in slavery! Let's be honest. If you believe the war of 1861-1865 was over slavery, then there are two things you ought to think about. The war was not over slavery. Slavery had only been made an issue by the liberal revisionist. It was not an issue. Let me prove to you that the war was not over slavery, and therefore, this flag could not have represented slavery. Abraham Lincoln proposed a thirteenth amendment to the constitution in March of 1861. It is the only proposed constitutional amendment that was signed by a sitting President. It bears Abraham Lincoln's signature. Here was Lincoln's proposed thirteenth amendment. "No amendment shall be made to the constitution which will authorize or give congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person's held to labor or service by laws of said state." In other words what Lincoln was saying to the South, if you will accept this proposed thirteenth amendment, you may forever keep slaves. Beauregard never fired on Fort Sumpter until April 9th. This was in March of 1861! If the War had been about slavery and if the South wanted just to keep slaves and that was it, why fire a gun? Just simply accept this thirteenth amendment and it would all be over. This resoulution was passed unamimously by Congress on July 23, 1861. You may read it for yourself in the Congressional Record. Here is what this resolution says: "The War is waged by the states, but to defend and protect the Union." Congress said the War is not about slavery. Lincoln said the War is not about slavery! I will even give you a thirteenth maendment that will allow you to make slavery permanent. You see what was happening was this: There are a lot of issues and I can't cover them all, but one of the issues was an economic issue. Do you realize the South, before the War, was extreemely wealthy. And the South before the War funded 75 to 80% of all the taxes.. But the North wanted a 40% tariff. the South said no. The most we will ever agree to is 10% tariff. And what Lincoln and the radical republicans were doing was this: They were saying we would give you the thirteenth amendment. We will let you keep your slaves if that is what you want. You just let us keep our tariffs. In other words, the North was willing to sell the blacks out for money, for higher taxs! They wern't interested in the slaves. They could care less. You see, Lincoln also said "If I could save the Union without freeing any of the slaves I would do it." He also said that slaves are property and should be paid for. At a later date, Lincoln also said: "I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exist. I believe I have no lawful right to do so and I have no inclination to do so." Here, Lincoln is acknowledging that he has no lawful right to interfere with slavery. That is, I have no lawful right, nor do I have any inclination to do so. Did you know that slavery was constitutional? All thirteen colonies held slaves, not just the South, all of them! Now this brings us to the big question so misunderstood. You say, "But Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, and this freed the slaves." Let's learn the truth here and get the Emancipation Proclamation straightned out for good. First of all, it did not free the slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation did not free one slave! Here is what Abraham Lincoln tried to do with the Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln and the other men in his cabnit said it was a war measure. Lincoln, wanted to keep England spacifically, and the rest of Europe particularly from joining in with recognizing the Confederate states of America. That was the first goal in that Emancipation Proclamation. His second goal was that he was hoping that the black slaves in the South would rise up against their white masters and white people. There was not one rebellion during the war of black folks. Did you realize a thousand tourches in a thousand black hands would have emptied the Confederate armies, because men would have gone home to protect their families, and Lincoln knew that! What Lincoln did was this. Lincoln tried to free the slaves in the South where he had no absolute authority and he refused to release the slaves in the North where he did have authority. Did you know that the Northern armies, even when they were fighting the South, had over 300,000 slaveholders in the Northern armies. Did you know that Robert E. Lee before the war ever began, freed some slaves after he had inherited them? Did you also know that General Ulysses Grant, who was the main General of the North, and afterwards, became President, kept his slaves after the war. His excuse was: "Good help is hard to find." You see, the truth of the matter is, the Emancipation Proclamation was not only unconstitutional, and everybody recognized it, it cost the Republicians a lot of elections. There were five Northern states after that which refused to elect Republicians to Congress. Moreover, there were a lot of Union soldiers that deserted because of it and refused to fight. Slavery was not the issue. Slavery was not, or ever the issue, until recently when political revisionist and the politically correct people wanted to make it the issue. There have been numerous warnings down through history concerning our flag and concerning our heritage and culture. One of these warnings came from General Patrick Cleburne. Now you talk about a prophet, listen to what he said in January of 1864. " If the South lost, it means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy. That our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will learn fron Northern school books their vision of the war, will be impressed by all of the infulences of History and Education to reguard our gallant debt as traders and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision." Let me tell you this. That is exactly what has happen in our country! You pick up any text book you want and it will say that the war was over slavery and the North was right and the South was wrong. Sadly, most people believe that! This is what is being taught. The truth is, the war was not over slavery, the Confederate flag is not a racist flag, and the Confederate flag is not a flag of slavery, no matter what anyone says, or uses it for!!!
Now let me put something else on you about the Confederate flag. It is a Christian flag. It represents freedom from tyranny. The flag, as we know it, didn't come into existance until after first Manasses July 21, 1861. The North and South called their battles by different names. So it's either first Manasses, or either First Bull run. During the battle, the confederate battle flag was the stars and bars and this flag was very easily confused with the Stars and Stripes, not only at a distance, but especially under battle conditions. During this battle, General Beauregard was having a great deal of trouble making out the flag while a body of troops moves towards the Union right flanks. He had his lieutenants try and figure the flag out as he didn't know whose army was who's. After the battle, he proposed to have a battle flag for his armies that was not like any other state or battle flag. He ordered a totally different flag to be made to carry into battle. There were two designs made. One by Colonel Walton, and the other by Colonel Miles. Walton's flag had a Latin cross on it, and Mile's flag had an X, or the St. Andrews cross on it. Beauregard chose the one with the Saint Andrews cross. Let me tell you this, Andrew was the first desciple of Jesus Christ, and preached the gospel relentlessly across Eorope. He was crucified around 69 AD in Patria, Greece. His crucifixion, unlike Christ's, who was crucified on a Latin cross, Andrew was crucified on the Andrews cross. It looks like an X. It was at his own request that his cross be like this. He did not believe that he was worthy enough to be crucified like Christ was. Because of his determination to preach, even while hanging on the cross, he was after three days cut down from the cross but died instantly. Thus, Andrew became the patron Saint not only of Russia, but of Scotland. Did you know that in the 1800s, 75% of the South were Scotch, or Scotish-Irish? The Confederate flag is based upon the national flag of Scotland. The flag of Scotland is the cross of Saint Andrew, and the cross of Saint Andrew is a symbol of the Christian faith and heritage of the Celtic race. In a matter af fact, another name for the Confederate flag is the southern Cross. It was adopted completely for the display of faith in the soverign God of heaven and earth, the God of history, and the God of salvation. Did you know that the confederate constitution recognized the sovereignty of the Providence of God. The Confederate battle flag is a symbol of the Saint andrews cross, a symbol of what the Confederates believed in, their God, and His might and power, and for the soldiers who gave their lives for the principles in which they believed, and fought for. It is a symbol of Southern valor and Patriotism. The flag is not a racist flag, no matter what groups use it, nor for the wrong purpose. It is a symbol mis-used, and mis-understood by many, just as easy as your name can be mis-used by anyone who so wishes!
So why attack the Confederate Battle Flag? Why attack the Confederate Symbols? The South was not fighting as a racist nation or as a slave nation. The South was fighting for constitutional rights. They were fighting for States rights. All you have to do is look at Washington D.C. to know exactly what our forefathers fought against. Two hundred and fifty thousand Confederate soldiers gave their lives to prevent from having what we have today! The extention of the government into every area of our lives is a result of the fact that the South lost the War. To attack the flag, is to attack the truth, which the flag represented. The Confederate flag not only represents a limited view of government, but it also represents freedom from tyranny. Historically everyone understands that the Confederate Battle Flag represents liberty, freedom, and independence against tyranny. So why must the Confederate symbols and monuments and heritage be defamed, destroyed, and derided? Because it stands for the truth and our nation is afraid that one day Americians will question the myths, and propaganda of the political correctness that's in our country today. As we see the truth, we might actually begin to stand for the principal's for which our forefathers stood and fought. Boy, would that cause problems for the present day administration and th present day Socialist program.
In order to keep a people enslaved and content in the present, you must destroy their past. A people who have no past, have no future. The attacks today are against the truth. We need to study our history. We need to study our heritage. We need to come back to the basics. We need to come back to our Christian roots.
In closing, look at Jeremiah Chapter 6:16, it says, "Thus sayeth the Lord stand ye in the ways and see and ask for the old paths, where is the food way and walk therein and you shall find rest for your souls, but they the wicked people said, we will not walk therein."
Think about it, God is saying to stand in the way and see and ask for the old way which is the good way. I would give the culture, character of man, and the morality of man today, for the way men were before the War of Northern Aggression. We better stand in the way and soon ask for the old way, which was the good way. God is not saying anything about black people being slaved to the South, or the Southern "banner" or "symbol" being racist. Man has made that idea, and mis-used the name of the South for it's purpose. To take it our of history, would be taking the black man out of history, as he is just as much a part of the history of America, as the flag is. What would history be without any mention of black people, or the Confederacy? Don't you think our children are already being cheated enough on their education and what they should know about America? You will never, never, change the past history, no matter what you do to hide it. It will forever exist, hidden, or not, and man can never change it !!!!!
REV. R.W. Page Know the facts before you react!!!!
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Robert
I believe that those who harbor hatred for a Flag need to re-evaluate their life and why the are supposed to be on this site. The North owned slaves too but that's rarely mentioned. Abraham Lincoln wanted to send all Black slaves back to Africa but he is a Hero?When a person who knows nothing of what was in the heart and minds of those fighting back then sits back and ridiculously calls folks names just really tells of that persons character.I know for a fact how my kin folk felt, due to letters and notes in their own hand writing. The people who continue to harbor negative feelings for an event that happened so far back they never had a chance to live it should really and truly reassess the direction of their lives. There should be an enormous effort to put an end to the Black on Black crime. Chicago is so bad, a friend just had her 31 yr old son, father of 3, shot to death by another black man for just walking out of a restaurant. People need to concentrate on the here and now and remember that none of Us are true Americans, our ancestors stole from the Indians so none of Us are true by blood(unless Native American)Americans. I was born and raised here my ancestry shows Im large part European so should I call myself a " European American"? If you
were born here it stands to reason that you are a "American" plain and simple why the separation of races like that? May your hearts find peace and your Soul find forgiveness!!
I'm absolutely in support of states' rights. That's what many of the pro-battle flag say that's what the flag represents. Fine. But if something is offending another human as much as that flag tends to anger some people (not only blacks), then it seems to me it is stepping on their right to the pursuit of happiness and it should go. States' rights don't go away with it. And those people are free to have it in their homes if that's really what they want to do. I think it's more important to put that America (even if this isn't a representation, only perceived) behind us in every way we can. Everything about the beginning of this country was horrible except the theory. However, I do pray that people will quit seeing every little thing as offensive. Most Natives simply tolerate this sort of thing all the time without saying much, if anything at all. As poor, put down, and forgotten as they are, they are still too strong and proud to whine. Things can only bother you if you LET them. We should all take control over our reactions and be above the petty crap. The flag is an old symbol of a defeated secession. Whether the principles were noble or not, it's time to let it go and it's also time for people to quit being so overly freaking sensitive.
I myself feel sad that people feel they have the right to destroy other people. My belief is that we are one race, the human race, but this hatred of color and flag has been around even before we were born. The flag is just a piece of cloth and people put more value in a flag than in the brotherhood of all mankind. We have mastered the art of destruction, we have yet to master the art of peace. It was a sad day over the shooting of people in a prayer meeting and the violence that all mankind does to themselves. For my whole life, I often would like to know why such hatred.
amen..
iTS JUST A PIECE OF CLOTH I guess the antigun people will chime in wanting all war memorials torn down that show weapons and the animal rites groop will want all statues taken down that show someone on horseback come on RAPTURE WE are done here
Amen Brother, Amen I also am ready, willing and waiting for God to cleanse the planet.
The issue is never representation about the matter, lt iis always about intent.
Cloths, statues of horses and weapons are not the issues, unless their intents are representatives of subliminal or obvious intentions of hatred and/or attacks on specific groups of disparate impact.
The question is never about WHAT. The questions will always be about the INTENTIONS of WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE WHY and HOW?
Amen, John Williams.
It is more than a piece of cloth. It is a symbol of hatred, oppression and ignorance. As a long time activist for peace and an advocate for common-sense firearms legislation who volunteers with hospitalized and disabled veterans I have never met a veteran who would prefer having tax dollars that could otherwise benefit the community they fought to defend be used to build a memorial to the war they fought. As a thirty year vegetarian animal rights activist I recognize that until it be recognized as abhorrent and unacceptable that one being suffer exploitation, pain, fear or death to benefit, enrich or entertain another, there can be no hope for progress of the human animal. You shame the Christ you claim to follow by blaspheming his words and image. I have been promised by "Christian" leaders since I was a child that the rapture is coming any day and based on all signs would happen before I even graduated high school. I turned fifty this year. May the peace of enlightenment brighten your existence soon. The rapture is not coming.
You just posted hatred to anyone who believes in Christianity. So shut up. It is just a flag, that represented what many, many men died for. Yes there are those that take the "slave" part too far. Also that was only 4 states. It was about states rights, which the states have unless there is a federal law which trumps any state law. Read real history instead of someone's opinion. Leave the flag and people's belief and heritage alone.
My comment is primarily just to ask that someone correct the newsletter which reads, "we mourn the deaths in NORTH Carolina," when it was in SOUTH Carolina. It just feels slightly callous to have that wrong, although I know it was certainly not meant that way. But, to me, it gives the appearance that the deaths of those 9 souls is not important enough even to know the state they were massacred in, and deflates all the very good, thoughtful and serious comments following that. Namaste, Serene Tami Sargent
Hello Serene Tami Sargent: Unfortunately by the time we realized that this unfortunate error had been made it was too late to change the newsletter in our system. Of course we didn't mean to offend anyone with our typo, and we hope that our posting multiple items related to this tragedy (including two in the newsletter in question) conveys how important the tragedy in Charleston was/is, and how much those lives mean, to us.
We regret the error. Good thoughts to you, to the people of Charleston, and to the rest of the world's children.
They also should have double checked their history books the 16 the St Baptist Church Bombing was in Birmingham not Selma its bad when someone is trying to stir up people and don't even get the facts right
Since when was a liberal ever concerned with facts? Never.
"I’m absolutely in support of states’ rights. That’s what many of the pro-battle flag say that’s what the flag represents. Fine. But if something is offending another human as much as that flag tends to anger some people (not only blacks), then it seems to me it is stepping on their right to the pursuit of happiness and it should go. States’ rights don’t go away with it. Read more at http://www.themonastery.org/blog/2015/06/a-heritage-of-hate/#l1RvTxxmS1rpkqvD.99"
Me as well, but unfortunately, I think in this particular case that "white supremacists", who are anything but supreme in my white opinion, will still continue to hate jews, blacks anyone else they feel threatened by. Some blacks will continue to hate whites because of the color of their skin and some blacks will hate other blacks because of the different shade of black of their skins. It's pretty messed up, but there it is.
In honor of other recent changes, let's rephrase:
But if something is offending another human as much as tends to anger some people (not only Catholics), then it seems to me it is stepping on their right to the pursuit of happiness and it should go. States’ rights don’t go away with it
The argument by itself does not hold up, and is honestly as bigoted as why most fly the CSA Battle Flag (to prove I am a bigot also).
I am very proudly an American, and when I have had a house (not just a condo), I have normally flown an American Flag as I am proud to be one; however I am not Proud of everything that America has done; for example I would never vist most Native American communities, with an overabundance of American Flags, as rightly so a large portion of them feel they have received very poor (and still receive) treatment by the US government.
Now I am fully against people that USE symobols (any symbols) for hate; however, I do not hate the symbols themselves (especially when others use the same symbols for different meanings)
""Where is the good? In the will. Where is the evil? In the will. Where is neither of them? In those things that are independent of the will."' (Epictetus)
No mortal agency is without flaw, if we look for one that has done no evil, we will find fault with anything on this earth.
We do not judge all Catholics based on the Inquisition, or the Conquistadors, we also factor in Mother Teresa and the like.
In saying the 'A symbol' has only one meaning, you are actually giving that symbol power. To weaken those who would use a symbol has a message of hate, rather denounce them for their HATE, and recognize those that use the symbol for other purposes.
Now how many people do you suppose the Confederate Battle Flag killed today? This is not the Confederate States flag (there are three of them). The "Civil War" which was really the Southern States who wanted the same independence that our founding fathers wanted, was fought for the very same reason. Check your real history books. And while we're ranting, when it comes to gay marriage (which God says NO to), I just can't support that type of union. It is not a God given right for queers to marry. Civil right maybe. The best thing I can say about that is, "Let men marry men, Let women marry women, and in three generations we won't have any Democratic Liberals in the country." God Bless OUR America.
This NEEDS to be read and maybe some will realize that the CSA really had "NOT MUCH" to do with certain issues: On August 14, 1862, Abraham Lincoln invited a group of black people to the White House. In his address to them, he told them of his plans to colonize them all back to Africa. Listen to what he told these folks: “Why should the people of your race be colonized and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss; but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think. Your race suffers very greatly, many of them, by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason, at least, why we should be separated. You here are freemen, I suppose? Perhaps you have been long free, or all your lives. Your race is suffering, in my judgment, the greatest wrong inflicted on any people. But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of our race.”
As someone who is not a US citizen I find it difficult to understand that a Christian nation can be so racist.
Racism exists on every continent..not just america' And christians muslims catholics ect ect are all guilty of it . Its a shame how our planet and people have gotten so delusional thinking anybody or any1 race is better than another..GOD made us all in his likeness as his children..i doubt hes pleased with how many has gone bad and forgotten why and what we're here for..to be a family and love and worship our lifegiving father...and spread his love an good news amen...
And lost.
I think they should leave the Confederate flag alone. It's part of our history of this country and don't think it had anything to do with the attack that happened in South Carolina. I think we have a bigger problem with hatred towards people than just a reminder of how far we came in history.
Amen Rose Thomas. My flag represents Heritage NOT hate ! My flag is in honor of all the people who lost their lives fighting for what they believed in. The history books are all very conflicted on the war. Some say slavery & some say states rights. None the less it is part of history & just because some people don't like it does not mean they can change history. Most of the solders that were fighting for the south were poor & did not even own slaves, what about the black men that were free men that fought? That is all another debate.
James 4:11-12 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
PLEASE tell me when it became the law that you had the right not to be offended? And getting offended does not stop me from pursuing happiness but fuels me to strive harder to become the best I can be. As for the battle flag it was a symbol for the freedom of the southern states from the rest of the coloney, it had nothing to do with hate. JUST BECAUSE YOU ASSOCIATE HATE WITH A SYMBOL DOES NOT MEAN THAT SYMBOL REPESENTS HATE. that is what you decided in you mind it is and so you must change your own view of things before the pain you feel will ever go away. The promlem is not in the symbol, it is in your mind RICK is right it only hurts you if you let it
I am a proud man of The New South. You Outherners should refrain from commenting as you are ignorant to the mutual struggles we face in The American South. We have come a long way but your lack of understanding is causing further divisiveness. The western civilization declines further with your polarizing language. We all have suffered as a result of colonialism and manifest destiny. My native american family the worst. I can practice tolerance but your lack thereof makes me wish to g aze into your apparently vacant mirror....where is your common humanity for our families blood on these fomer battlegrounds. We are seeing the final decline of our civilization as even those who preach tolerance have forgotten it. Peace be with you always. DR. TH JONES
I totally agree. Also , America moving toward unity & away from separation should be a priority.
Yes this is EXACTLY HOW I FEEL & THAT PEOPLE NEED TO MIND THERE OWN BUSINESS!!!!!!!!
I grew up outside Washington, D,C, and went as a child to many of the Civil War sites. I was interested in the characters and their roles. I understood that whatever the cause (s) there was more than one issue as seed material. I believe that it was as much about northern cotton mill owners have untaxed access to raw materials. In The Killer Angels the author has Confederate General Longstreet say: "We should have freed the slaves, then, fired on Ft. Sumter". This would have made it about all the other issues. I also view our civil war in the light of other countries where such disputes have taken place. We have unified in many ways, and, have miles to go yet, but that is what needs to be strived for. The Battle Flag, and, that is what it is, is not heritage it is the symbol of division. It needs to be remembered and not allowed to be a rally point for hate.
Ok Let start getting rid of the confederate flag. It is heritage to me for my father side (north) and my mother side(south). Both sides fought for the American revolution. We need to also get rid of the American flag. What we did to the American Indians. With the encampments(prisons) of 3rd generation American Japanese during WW2. The nuclear bombing of Japan cities(woman and children). To today with muslims and Mexicans. So you are total correct in getting rid of the confederate flag. So let are government know that we want the American and confederate flags taken down from all building NOW.