Brother John

Brother John May 23 post to John Owens…."B.S. John…. Here’s the context…..”You are a snot-nosed spoiled brat with no friends and no hope. You just try to pick at anything because you are bitter and hopeless, probably either disabled or a tweaker.” You started your post with “hopeless jerk”.

Using a whole string of disparaging slurs including “disabled” is no way to fathom anyone’s compulsion. You were called out for yet another instance of immature behaviour and rather than addressing hsw’s challenge to back up your claim, you spit out more grade school nonsense (including calling me a prick!)."

On May 24, John Owens replied in part…. "I am sorry I am so easily provoked into unkindness and that is certainly not my goal here. I am unhappy with myself for saying anything offensive and I think it is immature and uncomely. For what it’s worth, I was REacting to you and others and NOT being who I try to be. I have repented and ask your forgiveness. Whether or not I receive it, I will NOT react that way any more on this blog. Again, I am sorry."

Obviously your May epiphany and self-proclaimed repentance was only temporary (probably just more of your bullshit). Although "emotional toddler" and a reference to incontinence isn't as offensive as many of your previous juvenile insults, you've again chosen to use a disability as an insult (retarded), something most mature, educated people find very offensive.

John Owens

Brother John, take your nose out of hsw's backside and remember that after all that first round of stuff, I showed him and anyone paying attention that he started it, and he continues to play the same game. Just because I am older, wiser, and better doesn't mean I have to put up with it. You can smooch up to him all you want.

Brother John

John said, "Just because I am older, wiser, and better doesn’t mean I have to put up with it."

Your Ego seems to be spilling into your perceived reality, John. You may be older than most of us, but claiming that you're "wiser and better" is nothing more than massive hubris (and delusion) on your part. Do you think you're superior to everyone, or just this community?

How about that vow of repentance you made on May 24 to this entire forum, O Wise One? No other postings have been as rude, immature and condescending as yours with perhaps one or two exceptions. But they haven't proclaimed their intellectual superiority as you have.

I do find it amusing, although pathetic, that you think "He is an emotional toddler who cannot help but call names and sling insults" when you're the one doing the slinging.

Carry on, Wise Elder of the Forum, but remember that everyone can read what you post.

John Owens

Yeah. You and the twits can act like you think you are so superior, but everything you say is pavlovian emesis, regurgitated in hopes of approval of other pavlovi. I think that may well be your god. If you ever have an independent, original thought or make a normal observation of something real and meaningful I'd like to hear about it, but so far, all I've seen here is a very pedestrian version of the same swill spouted by the followers of fake political correctness.

hsw

Brother John you're obviously free to do as you choose, but you're arguing with a guy who believes, after all this time, that I'm a man. My husband, three grown children, and grandchild will get a good laugh out of that. My point is that it's futile, which is why I withdrew. Arguing with someone who assumes that because I'm an ally, I must be "one of them" (my words not his) is pointless. But I'm enjoying reading what you write so by all means carry on if you've a mind.

John Owens

Yeah. What I said on the 13th stands.

Brother John

Who thinks they're "further up the evolutionary ladder", John Owens? It's you claiming to be "older, wiser and better" (and confirming this delusion on the 15th.)

You said……."none of your kind could possibly propagate successfully for the future….."

It appears your self proclaimed wisdom is faulty as both hsw (whom you've repeatedly addressed as a man…. whoops!) and I have children and grandchildren. I expect this is the case for many of "our kind".

You haven't seen repentance from either of us because we haven't been using terms like "disabled", "retarded", "hopeless jerk", "prick", and more to denigrate people on this forum as you choose to do in your "wisdom".

Was it your alter ego who made the seemingly heartfelt apology on May 24?

John Owens

Brother John, If you were not so dense, you would see that my reference to being older, wiser, better, is satire, because OBVIOUSLY you want ME to react with kindness and respect when you and your ilk do not. Try to analyze yourself for once.

John Owens

Figure out what the locals are doing and try to blend?

hsw

So, on the one hand, you want to make it a non-issue. On the other, you want to suggest that if it is an issue, it's simple to solve.

Once again, circular logic and I'm not going to play anymore.

Just because you have one, doesn't mean you need to be one. Untwist, dude.

John Owens

You're the one being a prickette and arguing in circles. Take a nap, then, and come back when you're in a better, more rational mood.

Carol Amina

When you say "sinful" what you consider sinful may not be for me and many others. I'm sure man if not all would agree that murder would enter in as being "sinful ". Other crimes of brutality against other human beings and or nature could be considered sinful. But what gender someone chooses to call themselves or identify with or what activities to adult consenting human beings carry-on in their bedroom is none of our business and I would also like to say what God gods or form of warship a person chooses to do if Any is none of anyone else's business either. It seems that human beings are all too caught up in looking at each other and trying to control and rule them based on their own personal biases rather than allowing each other to just live and let live. Sinfulness is subjective based on one's personal believes for the most part . As is the word God.

John Owens

That's a pretty lucid refutation of the ideals of both communism and humanism, Sale. Not saying we agree on everything, but we certainly aren't all the same and some are pretty obviously not as good as others. I'm not pointing at anyone, but it's hard to deny what you see with your own eyes. Good job!

Carol Amina

Oh John don't get your holy tighties whities all in a bunch...your a godly guy...careful you will piss of someone holier than you and get struck by lightning {wink}

Carol Amina

Not bitter or hatful. I am glad to let each person have there own beliefs as long as they don't try to condem others who differ from them.

John Owens

I guess we sometimes interpret disagreement as condemnation. It is not the same thing, although... I suppose if you strongly disagree with someone, it would be difficult to disagree without at least the IMPLICATION of condemnation. Is it possible to think someone else is behaving like a complete moron without feeling at least a little bit superior? I think if we believe them to be acting like imbeciles, we HAVE to feel a tiny bit superior, because we are not practicing their imbecilic behavior with them. Even if that's so, it doesn't give us the moral or intellectual right to dehumanize them or bully them. Still, if we do not voice our disagreement with their beliefs we are silently condoning them, are we not? It's just difficult to be TRULY superior and transcendent while involved in any social intercourse with those who are not, or who simply don't agree with us. Can we grow just a tiny bit here, in this blog? Maybe not, but we MUST hope. If not, we admit the futility of our existence. I'm not talking Kumbaya or We Are the World, but it would be nice to talk like adults with manners and social skills and all that. Have a nice weekend Carol, and all. "Ah'll be Bach!"

hsw

I figure she called the underwear right. No one so bitter and angry could be swinging free.

John Owens

Now hsw is at it again. I have not expressed any bitterness at all on this blog or any other, and yet you say I am bitter. Also, you are imagining my underwear, based on some prejudiced bigotry which is what you accuse others of having. Don't think I've had any whiteys for about 44 years now, not that it makes any difference in a person's personality. If y'all don't have anything more important to consider than my shorts, you are truly blessed.

Carol Amina

Once again you show your true colors and ignorance. One of those who think they and there so call god is the only right way.
People like Natalie are right...it's not your business....I say step off and pound sand...(wish there was a way to flip people off here) so consider yourself flipped off.

John Owens

It is YOU, Carol, who show your true colors and ignorance. I did not say any of the things of which you accuse me, yet you say I did. That makes you the ignorant one. I don't know if you know the meaning of pounding sand, but if you do, only an ignorant person would say that.

John Owens

I'm going to have to look in on Jeffress. He seems to have a little more on the ball than the average preacher.

Brother John

Have you scrolled down to see Pastor Stephen Anderson in action, John? Neither Bob nor Steve are your "average preacher" as both were suggested by mary, who tilts precariously towards the extreme. I posted some of his bio under the mary's video and encourage you to do some serious research before subjecting yourself to the mesmerizing preaching of these modern day prophets.

John Owens

At the risk of subjecting myself to verbal persecution from what are falsely known as Christian fundamentalists, and also from the New Agers, I have a rule of thumb or two regarding preachers --If they teach that mankind is inherently good--false prophets. Man has the potential for good and evil, but is not inherently good. --if they do not teach that Satan exists and works to destroy mankind--false prophets. -- if they teach that Grace and Law are opposed to one another, I consider them false prophets. --if they do not practice and teach the Commandments of God, which include the weekly Sabbath, the Holy Days, instructions regarding idolatry (which include witchcraft, palm-reading, astrology, animism), I consider them false prophets. --if they do not teach that sin is transgression of the Law--false prophets --if they teach that humans (or any other creature besides a spirit) possess immortality, I consider them false prophets. --if they do NOT teach that the planet will eventually be ruled by God and that His throne will be here on Earth, I consider them false prophets. --if they are philanderers, pedophiles, or polygamists, I consider them false prophets.

I do not judge anyone from a holier-than-thou point of view. I am flesh and blood, like everyone else. I am a sinner, like everyone else. It is not within a human to actually know what is good and evil. Those are things that must be learned. Humans can accept all manner of evil, if it is customary in their culture. If something is not customary, they will think a practice is evil. Making something customary, though, does not make it good.

I will listen to anyone long enough to see from whence they come, but I give them no credence at all if they violate any of the rules above. You can call that close-minded. I call it well-grounded. There are absolutes--absolute good and absolute evil. There also exist areas where circumstances are factors. Even a well-grounded person makes allowances here and there, or else they are a fanatic, and most likely are misguided. In any difference of opinion, WHO is right does not matter at all. The only thing that matters is WHAT is right. Sometimes that is obvious, and sometimes it is not so obvious. From time to time, we just have to try something to see whether it is right or not. Social experimentation is like that. The really sad thing is that when a social experiment goes poorly, rather than revert to when things were better, a society will instead go deeper into the experiment, as if that will make the mistake work better. That is what many people call "progressive". Such a terrible waste.

hsw

I wish you could "like" comments here. Your disabled friend would fit right in with my disabled friends. Peace.

John Owens

Again, I used it as a possible excuse for your bitterness and juvenile arguments, and everyone knows that is how I used it. If they don't, I have to assume they are functionally illiterate. As to the comment about your mother, I assumed you were one of those forty-somethings who lived in his mother's basement because he is too anti-social and spoiled to have a job. Having said all that, please read my last post from yesterday, in reply to Bro John. I am sorry I am so easily provoked into unkindness and that is certainly not my goal here. I am unhappy with myself for saying anything offensive and I think it is immature and uncomely. For what it's worth, I was REacting to you and others and NOT being who I try to be. I have repented and ask your forgiveness. Whether or not I receive it, I will NOT react that way any more on this blog. Again, I am sorry.

John Owens

I love the word, spew. I never get tired of it. It just makes it seem like there is a torrent coming from someone, as though what comes from other ISN'T spewing. I tried to make nice, but it seems some people don't really like nice, and I allowed them into goading me to not be nice. I pity them. I'm going to be nice anyway. I'll just crawl over here and watch the other bugs. Glad you aren't one of those hating name-callers. Have a wonderful day. Mine is glorious.

Brother John

In response to your May 23, 10:09 am post, ordination with the ULC is open to everyone including Pagans, Druids, Atheists, and more, John. This is not true of Christian churches. I've always wondered why Christians, and particularly those ordained by a Christian church, would be here other than to proselytize and fulfill their perceived obligation to warn non-believers about burning in their imaginary Hell.

FYI, I've read the Bible from cover to cover, but admit I browsed past some of the most boring parts in the OT. More importantly, I've researched the origins and history of the Bible and understand it to be a corrupt, inaccurate blend of heavily edited mythology, recollection of dreams/visions and "history", written by around 40 different men. There is no "original" Bible. All extant manuscripts are copies (of copies, of copies) with thousands of errors, omissions, additions and contradictions amongst them. To identify it as the "word of God" requires an extraordinary amount of belief without evidence (as does the existence of God). Contrary to what you've assumed about me, reality, understanding and truth are very important to me. Belief is not.

Although your reference to my "getting all worked up", "ranting", "hysteria" and "pseudo-intellectual rants" are a step up from "snot nosed brat" "idiot" or "disabled" as slurs, they are only your opinion and do not define nor offend me.

Carol Amina

Why do you "assume" that Brother John or I am not believers in a god, or goddess? or some kind of higher power. I cant speak for Brother John but I do have a sense of Higher power or more a collective consciousnesses.
Just because we dont follow your doctrine dose not mean we are lost except maybe by your standard. I am not sure who you think died and left you god or christ. that's the thing John O you and mary and others like you have no ability to accept that others have a right to not be YOU.

John Owens

Carol, why do you come into a discussion that does not involve you , without reading everything to do with it, and then try to take a side, when Brother John and I are quite capable of discussing our differences as adults, without having to rehash stuff that is a week old? Please relax and stop trying to stir things up. I really am trying to be nice. John and I have become close to civil with one another, and you are trying to ruin that. Please stop.

Brother John

What I find mildly, although not surprisingly, alarming, John, is the ability of "Christians" to ignore uncomfortable reality and facts, as you have done here (to avoid alarms in your own mind I suppose). I provided a clear and accurate comparison of two instances in which horrific slaughter occurred based on God's perceived will. Both Moses and Hitler were able to set aside their morality and basic human decency to carry it out. Although it's likely that neither of them personally did any of the killing, they were able to convince their followers to do it for them. Germany was one of the most Christian nations on earth in the early and mid 1900's. Unlike the barbaric and ignorant horde commanded by Moses, the Holocaust was perpetrated by Christians, who now prefer to use the term Nazi to distance themselves from the ugly truth.

They were apparently both well suited to the job so, no, there probably wasn't a "better fit" than Moses or Hitler. I'm calling you out on this point and on your depiction of a "kinder, gentler, more merciful living God". My May 20 post includes a link to the plethora of death and destruction attributed to the biblical God.

I challenge you to spend some time reading through it and explain these blatant contradictions about being a loving and merciful God as well as the parallel between Hitler and Moses.

FYI John, I don't worship "the god of this world" (who you believe to be Lucifer aka Satan). I don't worship Thor, Zeus, Vulcan, Neptune, Pluto, Jupiter or any of the thousands of mythical gods that were believed to exist either. As one of your favourite authors says….

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Carol Amina

You can't say I have nothing to do with this, you don't know anything about me. And as I said my late reply to Thi has to do with time. People like you hate it when others voice there truth and feelings don't you...you only make me more interested in anyone who calls you on your crap.
As far as brother John being civil he has been all along, it's you, mary and a few others that have taken to name calling and trying to demean anyone who disagrees with your dogma.

John Owens

Geez, Carol, I knew you couldn't stop, even though I was trying to be very sweet. Apparently you don't respond well to sweetness. That's because of the world in which we live, I guess. I'll try not to be condescending, but Brother John's post just above your last comment would tell you why I didn't think he believed in God, and there was a prior one to which I was actually referring which prompted your previous reply. Of course you have every right to comment. It IS a blog, but I just have some objection to you interjecting yourself into a previous conversation which you did not read at the time it occurred, so it is all out of sequence to you. If you want to buddy up with Brother John, why don't you just get his number and call him? As for jumping up and down on me, if that is therapeutic for you, by all means, live it up, but please try not to feel superior just because you took someone else's side, who is quite capable of holding their own without you. That is not the way it works. You said, "You can’t say I have nothing to do with this, you don’t know anything about me. " ( I would submit respectfully, that YOU know nothing about ME, even though for some inexplicable reason think that you do) "And as I said my late reply to Thi has to do with time. People like you hate it when others voice there truth and feelings don’t you…you only make me more interested in anyone who calls you on your crap." ( I have not been CALLED on crap. I WAS accused of name-calling, which I DID, AFTER someone like YOU called names. Now, I should NOT have allowed that uncivil behavior to provoke me, as I am not allowing YOU to provoke me, but I did, and I said I was sorry and it is now YOU who keeps trying to keep the LACK of civility alive. I'm not attacking you at all, just asking you VERY NICELY to stop it) "As far as brother John being civil he has been all along, it’s you, mary and a few others "(OTHERS that side with YOU) "that have taken to name calling and trying to demean anyone who disagrees with your dogma. "(And THIS is what YOU are doing, and I am trying to step back and call for civility, but YOU are one of those who does not want to listen or be nice)

Now, I am going to make a prediction: I predict that you will continue to try to provoke me, because you will not be able to stop yourself. I hope that I am wrong, but I doubt it. I'm sure Brother John is getting a kick out of this. I think I would be, if I was him.

hsw

Dear Carol, welcome to our messy little sandbox. FYI, when John Owen says "someone like YOU" he's referring to me. When you find time, please scroll back through the comments and see if you can find even one instance where I called him, or anyone else, a name. I challenged him to do so after he made that accusation, but all I heard was crickets chirping.

PS: Yes I'm still here - I'm just not wasting my energy on pointless back-and-forth with someone who is so sure he's right that he doesn't "hear" any opinion other than his own, which, ironically, is the same "sin" of which he accuses others.

John Owens

hsw, you're trying to be a jerk again, but I'm not buying it. You just can't stand nice, but I'm gonna smother you with it.

John Owens

hsw, here it is, this is where YOU started it:

hsw

May 4, 2016 at 9:36 am

Oh good. Another name-calling troll. Change is actually usually good. Society evolves. Evolve with it or get left behind, on the wrong side of history. Happy trolling.

YOU called me a name-calling troll in response to THIS post, in which I did not call anyone any names. Here it is:

John Owens

May 4, 2016 at 9:32 am

Yes, by all means blame Republicans because the left keeps trying to conduct these wacky social experiments, and the Republicans are so stuck in their ways, that they won’t just go along with any stupid weird thing that comes along. CHANGE IS SELDOM GOOD!! If you had any powers of observation and reason you would see that. This kind of idiocy is about to come to a screeching halt and you don’t want to be on the wrong side of it, which you are now. It was fine BEFORE people started messing with the established social order.

I didn't call any names. YOU did. You accused me of doing what YOU did. I reacted. Then later, I realized I had let your immaturity irritate me to the point of acting out myself. Please don't think act like that. I won't.

hsw

I'm not engaging - just wanted everyone to know who the players are. I'm actually a big fan of nice - but I'm not buying it either. Bye Felicia.

Brother John

John Owens…...You've sidestepped my challenge (again) to your statement that Moses is the "Gold Standard" prophet and that there is nothing "kinder", "gentler" and "more mercifully loving" than the god of the bible. Well, not entirely. As the Creator he can also take us out anytime he gets angry and vengeful.

You said it's not evil for God to decree that certain people should be put to death.

The example I gave (the Midianites) didn't involve "certain people", did it? It was the indiscriminate slaughter of an entire population, including women, children and livestock, but excluding the virgins, which were kept as spoils of war with God's blessing.

You had little response to my May 20 6:16pm post comparing Moses (who you brought up initially) to Hitler other than suggesting that I'm deceived by Satan aka Lucifer. Please re-read this post and explain how Moses is praised and glorified while Hitler is condemned and demonized for very similar actions both based on the will of God (and in Der Fuhrer's case done as a Christian, not a Jew as was Moses)

I had also posted this link, that includes the slaughter of the Midianites (#28) amongst many others perpetrated by God which you did not acknowledge at all. I find all this slaughter the antithesis of kind, loving and merciful actions. Your comments?

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

You said… John Owens May 5, 2016 at 12:24 pm "Just BTW and FYI, Jesus WAS the God in Genesis. Ref Heb 1, John 1, and many other verses but those two are the most obvious and easy to remember."

I'm not sure all Christians would agree that God and Jesus are one in the same, but if so, it soils the reputation of the kind, loving Jesus beyond recognition as they then both fit Dawkin's description as…. jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

It's becoming difficult to find responses in this massive thread (thanks in part to mary's prolific commenting) as there's no chronological order. I did post to both csrsports and john owens with a few questions and statements far above this one. "Brother John May 26, 2016 at 1:05 pm I’ll put my responses in point form, csrsports. in case you choose to respond in kind."

I welcome any responses to it in the form of healthy, intelligent discussion.

I would personally never revere, worship or obey such monstrous deities as described in the OT of the Bible(or elsewhere). Thankfully none of them exist other than in the mind's of those who continue to believe the unbelievable without evidence. They, like the hundreds of myth based "religions" before them, will also fade into obscurity at some point in the future and are hopefully replaced by rational thought and an energized quest for truth.

John Owens

Brother John--Deu 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD (YAHWEH) knew face to face,

Brother John

John Owens May 31, 2016 at 11:40 am "Brother John–Deu 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD (YAHWEH) knew face to face"

This does nothing to back up your previous assertions. Quoting the Bible to prove it's own veracity is a meaningless exercise. As usual, those making preposterous claims simply ignore any challenges that are presented and carry on with their delusions/beliefs.

John Owens

Geez, Bro John, where would you have me go to come up with an acceptable proof? You can't refer to National Geographic, Wikipedia or the Christian Science Monitor or anything like that to come up with criteria for a prophet of God. I seriously doubt God Himself would stoop to trying to prove Himself to us, since He has no need for us. You refer to different people as authorities on religion or arguments against it. I refer to sacred writ. The historical fact that Moses existed and that he was the leader of the Exodus cannot be rationally disputed. You can sling mud or manure at his legacy if that makes you feel good or justified in your beliefs. You are free to choose to whom you will listen, and welcome to it.

I would just caution that it is possible to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I know how much fun it is to argue if you have nothing more to do, and it's fun to play "Gotcha" on this or that, but the people to whom you give credence should be able to show good fruit (results) for their life, teachings, philosophy, lifestyle. The teachings Moses gave us protect us from most transmissible diseases, degenerative diseases, cholesterol, laziness, drunkenness, burglary, rape, chronic welfare cases, property disputes, theft of land, public corruption, and teach a reciprocal form of justice for civil disputes. Not one of the present world's leaders even has the cojones to tackle most of these, and I am sure none of the people you cite have anything to offer along these lines.

Granted, Moses' teachings were not followed by many generations, but the ones who did had prosperity while they were doing so. The Northern Tribes forsook them and went into captivity and have been scattered among the nations and basically lost to history. The Jews forsook them and were carried off to Babylon. They returned and for a generation or two, followed and prospered, but then became corrupt. The fierce Muslims later tried to build their own system on top of Moses' teachings but they do not follow Moses' teachings except where it suits them. I do not propose we return to the Torah, because that would be far too extreme of a shift, and most would rather die than try to do as he said, but in day -to-day activities and civil law, the closer we adhere to them the better off we are.

You wrote in an earlier post that you had read the Bible through. I applaud that, but as you must have realized by the time you got to Leviticus, it is not a book you read through once and then understand it. If you read it for 40 years, you may have some understanding of it, or may not, as in the case of most religions' adherents. They read but do not understand. Some of it depends on attitude. If you read it looking for flaws, you will find or invent them. If you read it looking for confirmation of your present beliefs, you will also find or invent it. If you read looking for God's Word, you will be confused, because WHATEVER you have been taught, you will find things that are contrary to it. It is not for everyone, and even Jesus said, "NO MAN CAN COME TO ME, EXCEPT THE FATHER WHO SENT ME DRAW HIM..." That is why missionaries, no matter how successful they may be in gaining converts, are ultimately failing. If God doesn't draw you in, you cannot force your way in, and no one else can do it for you. His book is written so that we may have some excuse for our disobedience, in order that He may forgive us in the second resurrection, and may THEN write our names into the book of Life.

I think you have a hard head and a stubborn mind, but I appreciate the opportunity to converse.

John Owens

I will reply to one of your earlier questions, asking why I thought Bro John didn't believe in God. Because of this statement by him:

"I would personally never revere, worship or obey such monstrous deities as described in the OT of the Bible(or elsewhere). Thankfully none of them exist other than in the mind’s of those who continue to believe the unbelievable without evidence. They, like the hundreds of myth based “religions” before them, will also fade into obscurity at some point in the future and are hopefully replaced by rational thought and an energized quest for truth."

Without being critical or judgemental, this paragraph well MIGHT cause a stranger to think the author does not believe in God.

Carol Amina

Oh for sure Bro John! I was told " politely " by John Owens that I need to shut up and not join in the discussion that is between you and him. So I'll just hug a tree, smoke a bowl, and read.
Peace Bro

Brother John

This isn't a private chat room, Carol. You can jump in anytime.

John Owens

Well, Angel, you have a really twisted way of looking at things, and you draw conclusions about people that have no basis in any facts already in evidence. Everyone here can sense your sexual frustration. I was enlightening Mystic Angel as to the correct version of events. As to your opinion of me or God-- I really don't care what you think, because you are obviously deluded, deranged or mentally unstable. God will probably forgive you because you are messed up. I don't know why you would call me nuts because I told the story correctly but if that is how you judge people, you are terribly, hopelessly ignorant and shallow. I hope you find effective therapy. Maybe start by finding some at least temporary relief for the hysteria.

hsw

Don't worry about him angel722 - he defaults to insults when he's wrong and has no further arguments except "I'm right and you're stupid."

Carol Amina

I wish I was not Tracy. I feel aggravated at first when I read what mary and some others write, but it quickly turns to deep sadness. I try to remind myself that I must not focus on that negative hate speak and rather focus on what we do want. Peace, Love, mutual Respect and Harmony.

Carol Amina

I'm sorry your alone Mary. I understand that feeling very well! I am now after being a mental health social worker for close to 25 years a full time caregiver for my father who is 85 and has Parkinson's. My whole life was devoted to helping to protect children from all kinds of abuse and when they were victimized more often than not it happened within there own families, churches and communities.
Your right again that you have the right to think and feel however you see fit in regards to what you see as moral and godly. I was over reacting at first because like you I have vary strong feelings about what is right for me and my family. I have family members who are gay and transgendered, and I've seen first hand how hard things can be for them. A man who was my protector when I was a child was gay and he was beaten to death in 1979 by a few men who saw him kiss his 20 year partner good bye while dropping him off one morning to work.
Yes Mary I get my feeling hurt around this subject for vey personal reasons. But I would never denie you your right to have your own thoughts and feelings. I only ask that when we disagree we not call names, throw stones or as you say bully.
Peace

M

oh, you are very wrong, as i have studied the bible, the book of Mormon, the Rosicrucian studies, enough of the Koran to know about it, i have even read enough about the founding fathers who read the Koran and they too rejected it, i read the mystical life of Jesus, the secret doctrines of Jesus, the book of Jasher, and many many more most of which you most likely have never heard of so before you go making off handed remarks, you need to know what you are talking about. Further more, I dont have to be a drug addict to know how bad being a drug addict is and to not do it. you can know things by learning from others, you don't have to know things all the time by having first hand experience. There are things which are common sense for those who have common sense, and apparently none of you and your kind has.

M

oh, so it doesn't happen, no, nobody will abuse the transgender law, not, then why are things like this happening more and more. A Man Said He Was A Woman And Strolled Into A Ross Dressing Room. Here’s What Happened Next. Monday, Lisa Stickles went to a Ross Dress For Less department store in Mesquite, Texas, where she claims management allowed a man, who made no attempt to appear to be a woman, into the women’s fitting room.

Stickles explained that upon informing management about hearing a man’s voice in the women’s fitting room, she was told that the man was “representing himself as a woman today,” and that she should wait outside the fitting room if she felt uncomfortable, reports 11 News.

“I was in the dressing room, when we heard a man’s voice,” said Stickles. The manager “told me that if I felt uncomfortable in the dressing room with him there… I’d have to wait until he’s finished.”

Upsetting Stickles further, the man who walked out of the fitting room “was in no way dressed as a woman,” she said. “He had on jeans, a t-shirt, 5 o’clock shadow, very deep voice. He was a man.”

In Stickles’ view, it was clear that this man was exploiting the transgender bathroom and fitting room policy put in place by Ross, but when asked to comment, a customer service representative refused to address the legitimate concern, only saying that Ross does not “discriminate against the transgender community” and that “customers may use changing rooms that apply to their gender identity.”

“What about me? Or my feelings?” asked Stickles.

Short answer: They don’t matter.

Many on the Left have laughed at the claim that predators would abuse policies such as designated bathrooms, locker-rooms and fitting rooms based on subjective, self-purported gender “identity” rather than biology (or even what’s on your birth certificate, which can be changed post-sex-change surgery).

But clearly, this is already happening. In fact, The Daily Wire has reported another five instances where such exploitation took place, sadly resulting in peeping and even sexual assault. The American Family Association also chronicled instances of malice by male predators.

Nonetheless, the Left is intent on forcing governmental mandates for such policies, silencing opponents with comparisons to Jim Crow bigots. Earlier last week, the Department of Justice announced a lawsuit against North Carolina for House Bill 2 AKA the "bathroom bill." North Carolina is also suing the U.S. government. Further, on Friday, President Obama, via the Department of Education, declared that facilities in public schools must be open to "gender identity," rather than biology, or said schools will face potential lawsuits and the loss of federal funds.

M

Carol, if you and all your kind really want to be more mature, then try having just as much tolerance for those who don't share the same opinion as you do and stop thinking them as bigots and racists and any other things you like to bully others with, also try being understanding of them, they just might have some validity in their thinking if you talked to them with a rational mind instead of being so irrational with them, otherwise you are not being as mature as you want others to say you are being, and you are not being tolerant and kind and loving in you heart as you say you are trying to be, no you all have to think you need to to bully them. but don't patronize us because patronizing is just as inferiority as trying to bully us.

John Owens

I was kinda preaching to myself, too, Carol. I once took a class which focused on "receiver-oriented communication." The idea being to actually PERSUADE another person to modify their perception rather than have a battle of words which no one can actually win, after which both are either angry, hurt, or feeling somehow superior, if they think they "won" the battle.
Sometimes I will start out rationally, but someone says something that gets under my skin, and I react, when I should remain calm and passive. I get upset when people who don't know me or anything about me try to classify me, simply because I do not share their "misconceptions" (I say that tongue-in-cheek, since I PERCEIVE them as misconceptions.). This should not be a forum for mindless dickering and political name-calling, but one of thoughtful contemplation. I don't want anyone here to change my points of view, and probably neither does anyone else, and YET, we put them out here, and try to speak to the merits of them.
Sometimes we feel threatened or insulted, and in our own minds we decide the offending party is not as well-informed or insightful as we are. True, if we thought we were wrong to begin with, we would already have modified our positions. My goal is not to change opinions about what others believe, but merely to state as inoffensively as possible what I believe, and try to ascertain if they have anything actually relevant to contribute to my inner data-base. They seldom do, but I occasionally chat with someone of a different point of view whom I find to be a delightful human and worthy of respect and kindness. If they are, I can tell them my point of view and its merits, and they tell me theirs, and even if neither of us learns a thing about ourselves, our understanding of one another has grown. I think you must be a delightful person, worthy of respect and admiration. Thank you for reading my post and thinking about it.

John Owens

EVERYBODY!! Please take note of the sweetness here. It is so much nicer to have conversation than argument. "How sweet it is for brethren to dwell together in harmony"

Carol Amina

To John Owens, Thank you!

John Owens

Nothing correct that anyone can say to you people. You are all bitter and negative to anyone different, while claiming that fundamentalists are the problem. You are a mirror image of what you hate, while not even knowing what you love. I pity you all.

John Owens

That is funny. Never knew the holiness crowd to be really funny, though some of them are really nice. I used to date a holiness girl. (This was back in the 70s). I would get stoned and go to services with her (they had them 4 or 5 times a week). I enjoyed the music and singing (electric guitar and organ, drums, bass), but sometimes the other antics would be a tiny bit wild, but I kinda enjoyed it. Some of those services are a little scary. The stuff on this video ought to be an embarrassment to the followers of these people. Some of this behavior, if it isn't pure lunacy, has to be demon-influenced. I don't identify with ANY of these people. I observe the Sabbath, and not Sunday, and Holy Days, not holidays. My household and I try to follow the teachings of Moses and the prophets, besides the sacrificial stuff, which only descendants of Aaron are allowed to perform. We also try to follow the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles, which are NOTHING AT ALL like the stuff on this video. We don't believe people turn into angels or anything else when they die, except maybe eventually dust. We think the dead are dead. They don't fly off to heaven and sing for eternity or be thrown down to some Mephistopheles cavern to burn for eternity.

It's no wonder so much of the world objects to some forms of Christianity. I find much of it objectionable.

Being from the South, I am familiar with all the indigenous faiths, but not a real participant, except to attend a funeral or wedding. Those are usually attended by people from several branches of the Protestant groups, so the services are more generic. I've been to a couple of biker weddings and read some verses at a biker funeral. Trying to learn to play bagpipes since that is something a lot of us want played as we are lowered into our graves, but progress is awfully slow. That's a tough instrument, not at all as easy as a keyboard or violin to learn basic tunes.

Brother John

I find it appalling, John. Perhaps there were a few in attendance who were stoned and just there for the music, but the vast majority of the MILLIONS of evangelical Christians who attend churches like this are not. Through their faith and belief, this seems real to them. The healing, holy anointing, presence of the Holy Spirit, and believability of the preacher all revolve around the same (or similar) Bible everyone uses. They think they're "saved". I think they're delusional. Many of the preachers are respected and admired as ordained "Men/Women of God". I think they're charlatans because they are promoting belief without evidence as fact and truth. They're preying (not just praying) on people who desperately want to believe. Their fellow "men/women of God" are just as guilty even though they don't appear on YouTube. Most of them are in the "religion business". I believe videos like this are the best evidence of the potential downside of belief and faith in place of truth and knowledge, even if it does make you happy…..ecstatic…..fulfilled

I'm somewhat puzzled about your beliefs now, John. Although you often refer to the Bible as your source of guidance, it looks like you don't believe some fundamental Christian beliefs.

You said…."We don’t believe people turn into angels or anything else when they die, except maybe eventually dust. We think the dead are dead. They don’t fly off to heaven and sing for eternity or be thrown down to some Mephistopheles cavern to burn for eternity."

In this same thread you've also said…..

"Satan cannot resurrect the dead, but the God of the Bible can and will resurrect every human who has lived and died."

So Heaven and Hell do exist but are unoccupied for now until everyone who's ever died are all resurrected at once at some point and sent to either? Or they simply don't exist?

John Owens

Heaven is real, but is not a place where dead humans go. Several words have been translated Hell in the English bibles, but not one of them means anything like the Hell in Paradise Lost, which was a satire making fun of the beliefs of the people. Yet, that is how most people prefer to believe. They like to use the threat of being tormented in fire, but not dying or burning up, forever. Even a wrathful God is not that cruel. The fact is, the two words "immortal" and "soul" are not found together in the Bible. Inherent immortality is the lie the Serpent told Eve, "Ye shall not surely die." The Bible says, " The wages of sin is death..." It does NOT say it is eternal torment. I do believe in resurrections (plural), as those are scriptural, but for now, all who have ever died, except for Christ, are still dead, and waiting for those resurrections. Saints will be in the first resurrection, and will be raised immortal.
The second will be a massive general resurrection, comprising probably 98 percent (that number is a WAG on my part) of humanity. This number includes all the people with whom God never had any dealings whatsoever. They did not all go to Hell to burn forever and ever. They died just like Abraham and Moses and David. The scriptures, absent of mythology and tradition, tell a very different story than the charlatans and those who make a living off those who try to seek God.

John Owens

Frisco, TX police are looking for a thin white male, approximately 5'11". If men can go in women's rooms, they don't have to be cross-dressers.

John Owens

I heartily agree with your last point, Mary. The left's arguments are always irrational and emotional. At the same time they are pretending they are the rational, sensible ones. This was prophesied, called "strong delusion." These people think they are more loving and more righteous than God, while nothing could be further from the truth. They want mercy for killers and pedophiles, and no mercy for infants in the womb. Mercy for rapists/and therapy for rape victims. Compassion and benefits for illegals, bare minimum for veterans. They condemn anyone who doesn't agree with them as being ignorant, bigoted buffoons, not realizing that they are both ignorant and bigoted. They play grammar-Nazi on your spelling and punctuation, and try to ridicule you into silence. That alone should tell any rational person that THEY are the more ignorant, less tolerant in the forum. Leftists blame the forest fires on climate change, while the fires are dumping more "greenhouse" gases into the atmosphere. The leftists are to blame for the fires, since they think we should not have firebreaks and controlled burns, because they worship trees and animals, and think the forests should be left pristine or some such rot. They love to throw out statistics, which they get from some pamphlet put out as propaganda. They think they are progressive, but they are digressive. Evil becomes good to them, and good becomes evil. God is not part of their knowledge. They want to love evil-doers and hate you. They will put a water-saver on a toilet, and turn the flow down so you have to flush three times. You seem like a sweet, well-intentioned lady, who wants to reason with unreasonable people. Please don't let them change you. You are doing just fine. This world is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. This is only the beginning.

M

sure there is, with people of like minds. if you don't like the people with the beliefs that the people in this country has, then move to Lesbos Island or some place where you and take all your types of friends with you and you and them would them all have the somethings in common. and the fact that you don't have common sense is proof of perverse thoughts on you and your type of people. Lesbos, Greecehttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Lesbos,+Greece/@39.1746535,25.6574762,9z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x14af8516edc7f755:0x8627d601b32663e7!8m2!3d39.2645095!4d26.2777073,

Peter

I'm with you, hsw. The unholy trinity (if they are indeed three separate posters) here - Mary, John, & Pius - bear remarkable similarities in their uninformed, hateful posts. It's unfortunate to be so angry, and not have a clue about that which he/she/they speak(s). As an area superintendent once told me about a rather obnoxious kid in my class, "At least you don't have to go home to him." (or her, or them)

M

line your not calling anybody names, plz you guys are the main name callers, you can't let others who think differently then you alone at all, but you want be have your ideas accepted, that is being a hypocrite. he who has not sinned. in your guy's case you are the biggest sinners of all. the main problem here is that you guys want to run a much all over everybody else without consequences, that is why laws had to be made in the first place, and further more this is about the freaks and pervs not wanting to be Christians and having moral values, and it is about the war on Christianity and that is all the n Carolina law is doing is to make sure that you people can't penalize us for being Christians, that is what the whole ordeal is all about, you guys don't want to have christian values to account to, and you want to get rid of Christianity all together so that you don't have to worry about it, you want to go back in time to PreChristian times. that is why christian values had to come about because people were in anarchy, selfishness and doing what ever they wanted to to anybody or anything they wanted to without consequences and if you read the old testament and the book of Mormon, you would see that, and you would understand that that is why many of the old prophets had to come up with law, or Gods law other wise we would all be a bunch of savage animals.

John Owens

hsw, I did not call ANYONE any names in my post, so you are acting the troll here, and Peter, MY posts are at a MINIMUM, as well informed as yours and probably grammatically superior, but I see that all you have is insults rather than knowledge or insight. Remember when you are pointing fingers that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. hsw, learn to read. I am only responsible for what I say, not what you interpret. Peter, learn NOT to categorize people, please. My reasoning is very different from Mary's, and Pius'. The fact that you disagree with all three of us is the main thing we have in common. You are acting like a simpleton.

Brother John

I hope that we're able to participate in a civil discussion, John Owens. Might you be able to categorize your beliefs? A few of your latest posts did not indicate either Christian fundamentalist or evangelical overtones, but you often refer to the Bible. In an attempt to minimize misunderstandings, here's my attempt to present my beliefs in a concise form so that we may better understand one another. I'm an atheist meaning…. I do not believe in deities ( a natural or supernatural being, which is thought of as holy, divine, or sacred) as there is no evidence to support these beliefs. This includes the God of the Bible and the story of Jesus which is more mythological than it is factual and historical. I have no issues about what people's personal beliefs are, but object when they are presented as facts and the absolute truth.

I believe there are dimensions beyond the three that determine our perception of reality, or Space and Time. As humans, our Reality is constrained by the perception of Past, Present and Future. The many attempts to explain what's beyond these constraints (God for example) fall far short of the mark.

I'm disappointed that you chose not to rise to the defence of Moses (and God) in a different post in this thread and am hoping you will… it's the one about the contradiction between the kind, merciful and loving God you sited versus the vengeful, angry, homicidal monster that's chronicled in the OT.

Instead, or in addition to that, how about responding to my May 26 post below as you agreed that csrsport's post was "biblically correct". I'm sincerely interested in your view as it's seems you are far from an evangelical Christian based on some of your latest posts. I would also be interested in the response of evangelical, fundamentalist Christians as it relates directly to core Christian beliefs, which I find confused and irrational.

John Owens

I will try first to address the two disparate personalities of the "vengeful, angry, homicidal monster that’s chronicled in the OT" and the "kind, merciful and loving God" as you put it. I don't know if I can do an adequate job of it here, in this forum, but maybe a little at a time.

First of all, I have to say that the majority of "Christians" view Yeshua, or Jesus, as the Son of the Creator-- at birth, half human, half divine. As I may have mentioned, in the first chapter of John, John wrote, (and I'm quoting from memory here) " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. (Olde English a little peculiar here)...The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory." One can continue reading, but it is clear that John is speaking of Jesus or Joshua, Yeshua, being the Word. My point being, that the Being who BECAME Jesus, who entered Mary's womb as she was ovulating and became centered in that ovum to grow into a human, had existed before the creation of the Earth, Stars, the Cosmos.

For me, this is further explained in Hebrews 1 (presumably by Paul, as he has been credited with that epistle) which reads, (again from memory, so don't fault me if I miss a word) "God, who at various times and in diverse manners spake by the mouth of His holy prophets,... hath in these latter days revealed Himself by His Son, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS (emphasis mine) ...Who being the express image of his person(This is of particular note, since it is slightly obscured by the archaic English. The meaning as I have been told by those who are knowledgeable in Greek koine is more like "an exact duplicate, or likeness [CLONE, if you prefer}), and upholding all things by the word of his power (It is the SON who upholds all things) , when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

The rest can all be read, of course, and I think should be, but it shows a huge hole in common Christian thought--that the Son was relatively late on the scene and only came to be a sacrifice and to teach us to be sweet and kind and obedient to whomever and make us good subjects for the kings and the priests and cardinals. For some reason, people cannot understand what Jesus meant when He said, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and He saw it, and was glad." People at the time said, " You are not yet 40, and yet you say you knew Abraham." He replied, " Verily, before Abraham was, I AM."

He didn't say, I WAS, or I USED TO BE, but I AM. That is what the God in the burning bush told Moses, when Moses asked Him, "Whom shall I say sent me?" God answered, "I AM that I AM...tell them I AM hath sent you."

I realize you probably think all of this is myth or fantasy, but even if that proves to be so, the story told by the scriptures has only a vague resemblance to that taught by most of Christianity.

I have to break it off for now. I will try to pick up where I left off next Tuesday. By the way, I never expect anyone to take my word for what the scriptures actually say. I think it should be fairly easy for people to agree on what they actually say verbatim, because that is written and can be verified, and should be.

Thank you for the blessing of this opportunity.

Brother John

Please read my May 27 1:47 pm post again, John, particularly the last two paragraphs. Your response made no attempt to confirm your contention that God is kind, loving and merciful or that Moses was the Gold Standard prophet. Somewhere in this jumble is also my repeated request to explain why there is no correlation between the genocides perpetrated by Moses and Hitler as well. A discussion means you're backing up and verifying statements made.

Brother John

To John Owens and others regarding the Bible….. Kindly scroll down a few posts to mine on May 26 and provide your answers/response. Many of us do not believe the Bible is the "word of God" or the Big Book of Answers for All of Humanity. Why should we (and why do you) accept Bible as factual, accurate and evidentiary?

Peter

John, are you and 'Mary' one and the same? Both of you resort to insults to try to make a point and really say nothing in the process. If you want to be morally outraged, shout, and vent, go to it, but there is no need to attack others. That said, I'm out of here. Life's too short to drink bad wine...

hsw

So Bill Clinton really didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky? That means in your view he was actually telling the truth? Cool. I'm sorry, trying to define sex as only procreation redefines whatever it is that people after menopause or infertile couples do as somehow "less than" your standard. That better fits the definition of moronic and childish. Your narrowly limited world view is, thankfully, not the universal world view.

I'm pretty sure no political party invented all the ways loving couples can enjoy each other - that would be something that comes from nature.

It is your pretext that is ridiculous.

John Owens

Peter and hsw, there you go again. Grow up just a little bit. Please. Your kind of arguments belong on a teenage social site.

hsw

And you, sir, are no Ronald Reagan. Give it up. I'm perfectly capable of having an adult conversation with someone who wants to have a conversation. What you want to have is a monologue, and it's just not worth the energy when it would be a pointless exercise.

John Owens

hsw, when you SHOW that you are capable, if you wish, we can have a conversation. If you can possibly be civil and and sensible, please try. If your opinion has any validity, I would encourage you to strive for clarity and elucidation, rather than engaging in juvenile name-calling and mud-slinging. I have not called names or spoken derogatorily about people. I will call their motivations, actions, and tactics into question. After careful analysis of the dialogue here, it appears that I have been the bigger man so far, by far. That's not because I'm so big (in character), but because you have behaved like such a tiny person.

Brother John

I'll call you on your claim that you haven't used derogatory name calling on this site, John Owens. (May 5, 7:41 am post) Your ridiculous claims are tiresome and often laughable. Here's the challenge….

If I can't demonstrate that you've used any name calling or derogatory terms as you've claimed here…. I will pay you $1000.

If I can find instances of this on your part, you will pay me $100 for each one I find (and post for verification). As you clearly claim innocence here (and in other posts) this should be an easy decision for you, unless this is, in fact, a lie.

Without doing any research (I haven't read many of your posts), I estimate my winnings at over $2000 and will be donating it to a couple of the charities I support. I will have you make the donations directly to the charities and post the confirmations here for all to see. Sound fair?

Here's the definition of derogatory… Are you OK with it?

"Something that's derogatory is insulting or disrespectful. If you make derogatory comments, that means you say things that are unflattering, unkind, or demeaning. Derogatory means about the same as insulting. Derogatory language is meant to hurt, and it usually does. If you feel offended or insulted by what someone says, the person probably said something derogatory. Racial, sexist, and homophobic slurs are all derogatory. Insults that mean someone is stupid or crazy are derogatory. Making a joke about someone's mother is derogatory."

Let's see if you're really the BIG MAN you claim to be or just another blowhard… Do You Accept This Challenge? Just a head's up… this is not the time to be whimpering that "other people" do the same thing. You're the one claiming high ground as the intelligent, adult, non-leftie/commie, moral superior to some of us.

John Owens

Brother John, you are awfully brave and aggressive from your keyboard. I wrote in conciliatory language yesterday. I move in a world where people don't just keep trying to start trouble when there is no reason for it. Solomon wrote this (KJV) "Strive not with a man without cause, if he hath done thee no harm."
I will say, there is nothing MANLY about yaa-yaaing on a blog, particularly when some people have nothing better to do, and others do. It makes all parties involved look foolish.

Brother John

May I assume that you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth/fingers are then, John? It wasn't brave at all as I'm certain my charities would reap a rich bounty from this thread alone, let alone the rest of the site, were you to accept my challenge.

Perhaps you had an epiphany of sorts yesterday (maybe while considering the challenge) and actually did morph into the "world where people don’t just keep trying to start trouble when there is no reason for it." You surely hadn't been there before yesterday with the undeniable flow of insults and playground language you'd been using. Re-read the definition of "derogatory" to determine who's been "yahh-yahhing" and looking foolish. I'm not the one who's been compared to mary, my friend.

Challenging and exposing untruths, bigotry, ignorance, racism, cruelty, etc. is not causing trouble where there is none. It's a cure for the apathy and ignorance that allows evil to exist and spread.

I have immense respect and admiration for Martin Luther King who said, "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

Assuming this means we won't be reading any further derogatory remarks from you, I, for one, will welcome the change. I trust that you won't find a sharp reminder out of place if you occasionally backslide to your old ways.

Brother John

As you've vowed to be more civil and mature on this site, John Owens, in addition to your frequent derogatory remarks and insults, you are often condescending in your replies to others. Maybe you could work on that as well.

John Owens

Sigh. Ok, Brother John. I was rather enjoying telling you the difference between the teachings of the scriptures and "mainstream Christianity", but you seem to prefer the yaa-yaa stuff. I don't have time today. Maybe another time.

Brother John

I'm not here to start arguments. This is a discussion forum open to everyone from Christians to Atheists to Pagans, so there is bound to be disagreement, arguments and controversy. Those who simply want their beliefs verified and agreement by fellow believers can easily find any number of sites and forums to accomplish this purpose.

Asking for clarification, proof or evidence of claims made on this forum is one of it's principle purposes.

John Owens

NOW you play the hermaphrodite card. That is a totally separate issue, even though it is related. Just because you are, that does not mean you should be a jerk(or jerkette).

hsw

OK here's another thing I'd love to see - you, getting through an entire comment without resorting to name-calling. I'd ask for fact-checking, but we've already established that that would be an unreasonable expectation.

I do have one question though before I bail on this, as fun as it's been - do you consider yourself a Christian? I'm just asking because the only way you'd bring someone to Christ is if you tied them up and dragged them - it definitely wouldn't be by your shining example.

M

well, HSW, not only had I been for the most part trying to get you people to understand your flawed thinking on this matter without calling names until just a little bit ago, I think I can say the same to all of you, who insists that just because other people have another point of view and belief that it automatically means they are bigots or some how prejudices, that is bullying, why do you people think you have that right, to call others bigots and other names of such and bully us with pc which in itself is evil and what Hitler did in fascistic Germany before Nazism, and we are supposed to take that off of you people but we are not supposed to tell all of you how mental you are? PLS give me a break, I was being kind considering what you really deserve and what I really could had said. If you don't like it, the stop being that way. Just like if you people don't like society to not approve of what you are doing and you don't want to stop doing it, then keep it quiet. we don't need to know that, and all of you have no right expecting us to like it.You do not have a constitutional right to have all people like and accept you and what you do esp if you don't want to extend the same rights to others, like Christians and christian's beliefs. Christians also have the rights to have their believe and not be persecuted for it. so stop being irrational hypocrites.

M

HWS, as i said to you earlier, you have no right to complain about name calling as you and people like you are hypocrites. you don't like what you hear yet you call other hateful, and bigots, racists or any other number of labels. you say you don't want names called but you seem to always call others names, and label them, you even judge them, yet you want others to think you are high and mighty, holier then thou. that is a laugh. everybody has a right to say whatever they want to say, and you have the right to be offended, but you and your kinds have no right to try to bully others, that is infringing on others freedoms and rights, and that is censorship. censorship is not legal. if you don't like what you hear, don't listen, better yet, don't give others any reason to say such things.

hsw

Video tapes? Those still exist? But seriously, can we see a recording please?

M

video tapes do not exist everywhere, and i don't think they put them in bathrooms, as that would be an invasion of Privacy, but according to you and your guys's thinking, i guess privacy doesn't exist.

hsw

No what says it didn't happen is that there is absolutely nothing written about it, anywhere. That's not the kind of thing, especially in this atmosphere, that would have gone unreported. Unless you'd like to post a link. And no the law doesn't allow people to have sex in public restrooms, but keep reading those blogs.

hsw

And just so I'm clear about how you think I should be living my life, why is it that you call me (along with half the known world) a "perv"?

Peter

Simple request, Mary...just post a link showing where one of these incidents that you claim have occurred. Just one!

We'll be waiting, although I suspect you'll just respond with something insulting, as usual.

I believe, Mary, that your behaviour simply indicates trolling on your part, as I really can't believe you mean the vitriol you spew.

Carol Amina

As I have been reading Mary's posts, and the reactions to them it reminds me of the way the Right wing media works. There are bits and snips of things that are about some current provocative event. Then the name calling, slander and excessive fear tactics come in. Soon people's blood is boiling and words are flying...things get way off topic and it blows up!

I think your right Peter! She is trolling and doing a mighty fine job of distracting us from the issues at hand. Weather for or agents separate bathrooms we have all been focusing and reacting to "mary" and giving her attention.

I worked with special needs kids for close to 25 years. I learned that all bad behavior was as a result of unmet needs. Some people just don't know how to get those needs met in a way that others can hear or meet.

I'm open to here reasonable comments on this issue. I understand that gay and transgender issues go agents the basic beliefs of some. They have a right to those feelings as much as I have a right to my acceptance of gays and tran folks. But we live in a country that has laws that are more geared toward inclusion and freedom than exclusion and oppression. And as we have grown, in pain staking ways with lives being lost here on our own soil we have managed to become a county that others still die trying to come live into. Because we are a wonderful country to live in!

I'm sad to think that the cancer of hate, bigotry and narrow mindedness could ever rise above what most of us want freedom. The right to worship or not worship in the way that fits best for each of us as an individual.

I'm sorry for the long post, and for getting on this soap box. But I'm weary of the hatfullness and anger I feel from this topic.

Peace and Blessings to all....weather you agree or not with me I send you Love.

hsw

Hey Mary, you're fond of proof - could you post a link to even one article about such an incident - and it doesn't count if it's a link to a conservative blog.

M

hsw, it is posted, I listed some, and just because the liberal media doesn't report on something that is upholding their liberal views doesn't mean it doesn't happen. you should know better then that by now. where have you've been?

barysmirdworld

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING MARY SAYS! TRUMP/HITLER 2016!

Brother John

barysmirdworld…. a classic!! I don't think mary deserves any special treatment here. He/She chooses to continue filling white space with rambling nonsense. I browse some of her diatribes for amusement and sometimes wonder what % of the population she represents. There are people who do not let the voices in their heads control their fingers on a keyboard and push "Post Comment" before a thorough re-reading.

John Owens

Yeah, you kinda have been, to Mary

Tracy

John, No I have not. I have not called her any names except for contrary! I have questioned items in her post and her writing style. If we must act like children... She called me names! As my kids would say... She has anger issues! It's all dialogue!

M

for you information you are the one who said that i said psychology is voodoo science, not me, but since you did bring it up, their are just so much of psychology that is based only on this persons perception and that persons perception, and that is inconsistent, so it cant really be really scientifically proven as there is no constancy in it. even the famous founder of psychology, was always high through most of his practice so how can he began to be considered reliable esp since he had a penis fetish. I have studied psychology, and i know some of what i am talking about. in psychology there is something that is called cognitive dissonance and that is what you all are doing to justify your action. even though that is all that you have, it is still irrational. and just because Europe does something certain ways, does not mean America needs to do it either, that is what is suppose to set up apart from undeveloped worlds and Europe.

M

mother says, there are a great number of the men, are sexual predators,therefore women and girls are not safe around them and become venerable when they are in certain setting and private places, men will use all kinds of tactics including using cameras to see women and little girls naked bodies, and little girls and senior are very vulnerable and are raped and murdered by men in private places. sometimes women and young girls esp when traveling need to use women's bathrooms to wash and change clothes and any normal woman doesn't want a man or men standing around watching her when she is naked. if that is the case, why should be even bother wearing cloths in the first place, why shouldn't we all just go around naked. mother said she would like to feel safe from perverts in private places and transvestites are still men and they need to use the men's bathrooms. people choose to be live a particular life as a particular sex before they were born, and they need to live their life as the person in the body they choose to be born into. you have a mental problem, don't try to force others to accept your life style. mother also says until men can put sex in it's place, women and girls and boy are not going to be safe. mother said she for one does not want to feed the perversions of a jerky pervert. There was a story told by a member in church a few months ago. it went something like this, a girl wanted to go to a prom with her boyfriend, they asked her parent and they said they never went to prom, because they never thought they need that experience but they told the girl okay if she wanted to. she though that was easy, that was great. The girl went with the store with her parent, and they allowed her to pick out the prom dress she wanted to ware, and she thought that was great. the day of the prom came along and when the daughter and her boyfriend was ready to leave for the prom, the parents asked the girl if they would go out to the smoke house to bring in a some smoked meats. and she thought they were crazy, she said that would taint her dress and ruin it from all the smoke that would get into the clothes, and their parents said yes that is the whole point, they could go to the prom, and they might have an occasion that they might get more intimate then they should had, and do something that will taint them for the rest of their life, that is what happens with children who are exposed to naked men. that is why it is considered child endangerment when adults expose their naked bodies to children, it is particularly harmful if there are sexual experiences. children and innocent adults do not need to be put in that kind of danger. maybe if you had been taught to use common sense you might not had turned out the way you are now, you might be a more moral person instead of a pervert.

Tracy

Are you the mother from the novel/ movie Carrie written by Stephen King?

Ken Dixon

"people choose to be live a particular life as a particular sex before they were born, and they need to live their life as the person in the body they choose to be born into."

There are no words to describe how little sense this makes.

Ken Dixon

"men will use all kinds of tactics including using cameras to see women and little girls naked bodies"

What kind of a world do you live in?

M

Excuse me, Ken, but that is exactly my point, that is just what I have been trying to say to all the stupid people. so don't come down on me when we are saying the same thing, tell that to all the stupid liberals. they are the stupid ones who don't want to see that and except it.

Reverend Dave

I don't like or understand it any more than you. But I don't think it can be fixed with hate. Go ahead and call names and keep a closed mind. Good luck in making a positive difference in the world. My suggestion was to offer everyone a private place to poo and pee without the threat of someone we don't want to share that private space with. You seem to want to attack rather than discuss. I'm done here.

hsw

This is what happens when ignorant, uneducated people get their information only from right wing blogs and Facebook memes. Transgendered people are not perverts. You who are so concerned about which bathroom perfect strangers are using, what's under their clothing, and whether families that are not yours are seeing each other naked are far more reverted than those who just want to #peeinpeace. Grow up.

Carol Amina

Mary This is the first time I have ever read your posts.
First off I'm very sorry for you. You must be a lonely person. So much hate spews from your words. It seems you have omitted the word Love in what you say is Gods word. I think those of us who disagree with you and the things you say should not join you in hatfullness but send loving light your way in hopes to sooth your angry hateful thoughts. Let's not return hate for hate, but send love instead.

M

Carol, if what you say is true, ask yourself why that is, maybe if it is true as you say, then you need to understand that it would be because to all the crap people like you and all these perverts have been pushing onto us since forever, of course some of us will be upset, being bullied so badly. you would be too if you had gumption. I mean if as all of you say your perverts and friends have been so harmed by not getting your way about spreading the perversions you have, how do you expect others who has been bullied like since forever to "LIKE" being bullied by people like you? You think it is okay to bully others and they should not be upset, you are living is a pipe dream. So stop smoking that funny weed and come back to reality, if you don't want people to be not loving as you say, then stop doing things to them to make them become unloving. stop bullying other people. you think it is okay to bully others to get your way, but you don't like others who push back a little, well tough. i will not stop pushing back. not in this life or the next.

barysmirdworld

Nobody is calling you names. You are doing bigoted stuff and that fits the definition of a bigot; you're a bigot. An example of name calling is when you call a whole class of people perverts just because you imagined a world where that is true even though there's absolutely no evidence of it in the real world.

M

no i do not have more then one mother, and i don't capitalize because it is not necessary, it is easier for me to type what i am thinking at the time i am typing it if i dont have to worry about capitalizing. i am not addressing congress so it is to me not a big deal. i am not a robot, and as far as spelling, it looks right to me, and the spell checker doesn't come on or it is a word that is not in the spell checker or i don't feel it is in deserved to be capitalized. and since you don't know me, i suggest you to stop bullying me trying to say untrue things of me and my mother, seeing that you dont know me and mine.just because you don't agree with some of us, does not mean we are not right. their are structures in the way of the universe and everything you and your types of people do are counter to that.

M

No I would have been and am one of his disciples as i study the same metaphysical teachings as he does, and I would understand not only his parables but also his teachings, I am one of those who he said would understand and be ready for his messages, because I study the metaphysics even now and the metaphysical school I belong to know and teaches Just the same things as what I have been trying to teach all of you, like people choose the life and the body and the circumstances they are born into and what they encounter in their lives they encounter for a reason, and if they want things to change they need to remember the golden rule and the act of Karma. In fact when my family went to one of their meetings and their were transvestites who wanted to come to the meeting dressed in drag and be queens and they were sent home, they were told that they choose to be born a certain sex and they needed to have the experiences of being in that sex so they had to come dressed in the correct clothes for the sex they were born into. anything else is them practicing being delusional. They are only hurting them selves by denying their experiences of being in the body with the same sex they were born to live.

M

also Ken as I was saying you and I are saying the same thing, so lay off of me. I am not the damn liberals trying to justify that perversions of the lefts.

Reverend Arianna Davis ULC California

Bravo Thad and others, thank you! As an ally of transgender and other oppressed people, I've learned quite a bit. Transgender people are truly the gender they know they are on the inside, which can be opposite of the physical sex they're born with. They go on a difficult journey to line up the outside with their internal gender. For ignorant, hateful people who think that they're directly appointed by God to tell someone what or who to be or where to pee, is inhumane. This attitude often leads to discrimination, assault, murder of trans people. This is also a reason why the suicide rate is high amongst them. Many sources of statistics show that transgender people do not go into bathrooms to molest children or people, that's a myth.