Is it time to form the 51st state in the Union? Some Christian politicians think so, and they're eager to shape a new set of laws that align with their beliefs.
Last week, a group of freedom-minded lawmakers gathered in Washington State to raise money for a campaign to form "Liberty", a newly proposed state that would include the eastern portion of Washington, as well as parts of Oregon, Idaho and if organizers get their way, perhaps even Montana and Wyoming as well.
The guest list included both state and local lawmakers.
Washington State Rep. Matt Shea, best known for his "Biblical Basis for War" manifesto, and who recently proposed actual legislation to create Liberty, was joined by Spokane City Councilman Mike Fagan and Loren Culp, a police chief who made national headlines after pledging not to enforce a controversial state-wide gun control initiative. Joining them as well was Barry Byrd, leader of the Marble Community Fellowship in northern Stevens County, who once helped pen a Christian Identity manifesto that referred to Jews as "anti-Christs" and condemned interracial marriage.
From the sound of it, these people are pretty serious about secession. "It's either going to be bloodshed or Liberty State," declared Shea's legislative assistant Rene' Holaday.
While the imaginary state is still working on a draft of its Constitution, early indications are it will heavily favor both religious freedom and gun rights. In fact, the AR-15 has already been designated the official state rifle.
What's Driving Calls for Secession?
During the evening's main address, Rep. Shea covered a wide range of grievances that "Liberty" supporters say justifies the creation of a new state. Among them: global warming is a hoax that big-city voters are forcing small town folks to pay for, and strict new gun laws are an intentional effort to target rural areas and take away their rights.
But that's not all there's a distinct religious component to "Liberty" founders' motivations. The U.S. is "a Christian nation" under siege, says Rep. Shea. He thinks it's about time true believers take their country back. "The Communists and atheists those that are responsible for the deaths of more people than any other belief system in the history of the world unfurled their flag on the Capitol steps this last spring," Shea complains.
Should Christians Get Their Own State?
On its face, this whole plan seems pretty outlandish. Sure, it might be great for the gun rights activists and practicing Christians but what about all the other folks who live in those areas? Are they supposed to just take the state-sponsored religion and AR-15s in stride?
Plus, the bold new state constitution being proposed would undoubtedly clash in some areas with federal law what happens then? Would "Liberty" try to secede from the United States entirely (can you imagine the headlines)?
On the other hand, if these people are so dead-set on creating a Christian state, maybe it wouldn't be the worst idea to let them try. If it's a spectacular success, other fundamentalists and religious activists would likely decide to move there alleviating existing religious tensions elsewhere. If it fails, then we'll have solid evidence that Christian-based system isn't the best way to run a government after all.
Your reaction?
76 comments
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Sean Behm
It appears to be a clash between rural America and big city America, which is happening in all states. I live in Upstate NY, not far from the Adirondack Park, but we are governed by a Governor in NYC (5 hour drive). There is a bill in our state now to make NYC and Long Island a new state, separate from Upstate NY. Due to the big city population (over 12 million), along with numerous other large cities in this state, the remainder of the state population living in rural NY is expected to abide laws meant to best serve city streets. If a person has NOT experienced life in the city, how could they possibly understand big-city America? And vice-versa. I have lived both and will testify they are two completely different settings. Religion is an acceptable basis for succession in this country, moral beliefs are not. They are using religion as an excuse.
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Joe
I agree. It is more an issue of polarization. On this forum the religious aspect is getting trashed but the need for separation is deeper.
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Qrez
I've played Bio Shock infinite i know how this lunacy ends!
Getting paradoxically drowned over and over again!
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Xavito Wasserzug (@JavZug)
How about a Muslim state too?
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Carl Elfstrom
One or two more stars on our flag won't look right.
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LazyEvilCat
personally i think they should create a floating island to build their utopia on... hopefully that way it will sink :p in a similar theme i propose gathering up all flat earther's and shooting them into space without a return ticket.
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Secretary3rd
Abe Lincoln had a similar problem and he reacted.
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Tom F
Wow. Plenty of off the wall comments here for a “Faith Based Website.” First, if this ever came to be, I promise you, we’ll all be long gone and probably never see it. Second, I doubt seriously that any state within the boundaries of the United States will ever succeed. If they did and at some point in time was attacked by an outside force, they better hope and pray that the rest of America is their best allied force. Third, what’s the big deal with Christians owning firearms, standing up for and fighting for their rights? How ridiculous. How many Christians are there in today’s modern military? How many of YOU have stood up and denounced a Christian for fighting, shedding blood and dying for your rights and freedoms? ILL WAIT. Besides, Christians have been waging war and fighting battles since the beginning of time. I own (?) weapons and 1 is an AR-15. I’ve never used it except for sport shooting and hope I never have to. However, in 1970, I took an oath for God, Country, Family and the America dream. That oath has not and will not expire.
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Oh Mo
I think it's a great idea! But NOT on American soil. Steal some land from some other country, or "discover" some the way Columbus did. I know, stake out a claim on the moon.
But whatever you decide, BEGONE! ?
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Joe
No problem. Just go to an anti gun liberal state and kill all the unarmed natives.
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Dark Gray
Interesting picture of Jesus they have there. He's whiter than a lot of Caucasians I know. And . . . hmm . . . as I look closer, it seems to me that if you remove the beard and mustache . . . that's a woman's face. Anyone else see that?
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Lionheart
Damn! You are right. It's Caitlyn Jenner ?
?♥️
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Oh Mo
❤❤❤❤❤❤
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Carl Elfstrom
So, was Jesus a transvestite, or a drag queen? Either way, that would make it more understandable why the apostles left their wives to be with her.
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Jared Kent
California has wanted to separate and become their own country with the un backing. California has passed many laws against Christianity. They have turned their state into a sanctuary state. Everyone thinks that they have a right but when Christian's who are trying to preserve our American heritage then it comes into question. The United States of America was founded around the same principal's as liberty is trying.
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Chuck
Did the Muslims just try to do this? Isis failed. This will fail also.
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JASON
Dont confuse the idiots here with pesky thing such as facts , most on here truly are clueless ( thanks common core) .
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Oh Mo
Has nothing to do with common core. Some people are just plain stupid and we all know that can't be fixed.
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Popodoc
If one reads the Bible and understands that this "world" we live is not perfect BUT filled with evil that permeates every living being; one should not be trying to create more areas for evil and hate. I believe, if we are Followers of Jesus, we are to be in this "world" but not to take part in the evil and hatred, BUT to take the GOOD NEWS to the four corners of the earth preaching and baptizing those who believe. That's our mission not dividing the the world into cults and warring faction,
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CW
The map is off. Everything between olympia and portland all the way to the coast wants out of Washington too. The liberals in Washington state at Olympia and end at southish Everett and only on the bay. Everything else is owned and populated by conservatives. A bunch of morons moved into seattle in the 70s then more californians show up over the 80 and the housing boom. Now since they have the numbers to destroy seattle just like they did san francisco and LA. they think they should fuck up the whole state and make it a sanctuary state. So the land owners want out of the crap they did not vote for, And yet people the only ones that don't understand are the same turd suckers that whine and cried when Trump won. Guess what idiots He will win again cause people are sick and tired of the shit whole that the democrats make of everything. Even when you corrupt the youth in school and try to make them as stupid as the people in the movie idiocracy they find a way to not vote the way you want and get R done.
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Tatiacha
Simply not true, apparently you don't get out much and meet anyone other than those who willing mirror your own point of view.
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Concerned
I can't tell if this is really happening or if it's a game review of Far Cry 5
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ROGER GILBERT
Kind of surprising all the leftist, Marxist's on here that are fearful of people that want freedom from tyranny! How about we just get rid of government (a form of religion) and all of it's thousands of over reaching laws which are by no means Natural laws and rights. Then we can dismantle all false religion,, which most of them are,, as they are based on a spurious bible tampered with by Constantine for a dark roman church agenda! But back to the issue at hand. There is no such thing as a "right" being assigned by government, such as the right to bear arms. That right is inherent in Natural law as put in place by the creator. It's called the right to defend ones self and family from harm. Rights are "if your actions bring no harm to another being" it is a right, if your actions bring harm to another it is a wrong. Owning a gun does not harm another unless used in that way, and in fact keeps another from harming you or violating your right to be free from harm. Natural law also guarantees us the right to be free from aggression and harm in any way. Violation of a natural right can be summed up with one word "theft". Theft of life, theft of property, theft of self respect, theft of freedom, etc. Therefore government is a violation of thousands of natural rights to not only the citizens of this country but others as well. The dark powers of government know all about these "hidden" laws and use their laws to enslave us through the tax system and by the police state. The police and military are what are called order followers with no conscience or sense of natural law but exist entirely for the purpose of keeping the dark powers of what is called the ruling elite in power. So there you have it...and one last thing,,Jesus as described was on board with all of this because he was in tune with natural law, hated governments and false religion. He also told his disciples to buy swords!
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Tatiacha
How do you not get that the Christians who want this would be imposing tyranny on the rest of the people who live in these areas. They seem to think they are the only residents of these areas and that their points of view are consistent among the population there. They are NOT! They have to know a new state would still be subject to federal law. So what they are really looking for is to become their own country where only their views are tolerated. That is the opposite of the founding of America, this country was founded to get away from that very perspective.
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Joe
In my state the most populas eastern cities dominate the vote. We pay for their multi billion dollar projects that we never see. They take away our rights and impose restrictions that may fit in their areas but not here. Just because some idiot on his phone walks into City traffic because he is on his phone we can't use our phone on a near empty small town street. It goes on...
Tyranny is already happening !
It is what is driving separation movements. The gun grabbing socialist want to disband the electoral college because it's the only thing that helps give everyone a voice. On the contrary each state should have it's own ec to give everyone a voice in state elections.
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Thom
Can we let California leave the Union first and then let the rest decide. It is in Texas' Constitution we are allowed to secede but we have yet to do it. We have threatened but have not done it. If California wants to leave, so long and enjoy socialism and see if you can do it right, since no one has done it correctly as of yet. Oh, and never will. They are trying to make a Christian Israel and I don't think it will work.
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Oh Mo
Thom, you must be from Texas, as evidenced by your lack of knowledge of your own state government or that of the Union to which Texas belongs. The issue of secession was resolved in 1865 why you got your ass handed to you on the proverbial platter. Gotta love ya'll that take so much pride in being losers. ??
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Carl Elfstrom
I'm from a little Island right next to Texas in the gulf of Mexico called Galveston, where I presently live. Y'all are talking about ancient history that happened long before any of us were born. There is no longer any such thing as Yankees or confederates. Although I'm proud to be a Texan I'm mostly proud to be an American, and am first and foremost an American. However, if I was living during the civil war I would undoubtedly have defected to the north, for there's not a prejudiced bone in my body.
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KING
None of the founding fathers were Christian so I am not sure why they would think we would change the constitution to start governing based on religion when the entire reason our country exists is to separate churches from religion. lol wth
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Rev Ned
Made me think of the Danny DeVito movie, “What’s The Worst That Can Happen?”
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Ryan Suter
Namaste, I think they should just go to New England. The Old Christian Settlers started in New England and they might really find what they are looking for is already there in New England. Just go to New England and join your Denomination's local branch.
Rev. Dr. Ryan S. - Reverend Minister - Doctor of Divinity - Urban Monk
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Dominick M Ruscitti
as a Christian myself, I can see the dangers behind having a Christian state, having hundreds upon hundreds of different Christian denominations would be disastrous. The Christianity of today has practically nothing to do with Jesus and what he taught. I think the Christian state would eventually end up like the world with all the disagreements of who's Christian faith is true and who's isn't would end up with violent disagreements and otherworldly attributes they tried to escape from to begin with.
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Ryan Suter
John Joseph Dawber you are kind of right... The can do it with the consent of the States involved and Congress Here is the link to that from the US CONSTITUTION:
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-iv
Article IV STATES, CITIZENSHIP, NEW STATES Signed in convention September 17, 1787. Ratified June 21, 1788. A portion of Article IV, Section 2, was changed by the 13th Amendment
SECTION 3 New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
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Justa
Noone showed a ounce of what could be done to stop the tyranny in the government even as a alternative. I personally think that if the Christian's take a stand it has more moxy then most of the other 90 percent of fat lazy Americans that would rather complain on a blog rather than fight for there land again!! I ain't religious but if that's the only people willing to take a stand well sign me up.. and if by chance it does work, dont think if we get invaded anyone who is fighting or fought for this country is gonna give a shit to save your lazy sll talk no walk ass!
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Terrence Brannon
"Cooperative Federalism" by Gerald Brown informs and documents that each state is in fact a sovereign NATION and that the federal United States lacks jurisdiction over them and is nothing more than a foreign entity.
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Bob
The Constitution specifically defines the authority of the Federal Government. In those areas (like interstate commerce), the states are clearly not sovereign.
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John Brower
This is really not about Christianity, it's just an excuse to push the white-supremacist agenda and it would be a shame to see this part of the country (where many of my family live) turned into a reactionary pseudo Christian Sharia state.
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john joseph dawber
CONSTITUTION PROHEBITS A FORMATION OF STATE ROM ANOTHER STATE-John J. Dawber
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John Joseph Dawber
CONSTITUTION PROHIBITS FORMATION OF STATE FROM THE SAME STATE WHICH IS A INCORPORATED STATE.
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Dark Gray
Perhaps someone should explain this to West Virginia. Or Maine.
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john joseph dawber
CONSTITUTION FORBIDS CREATING A STATE FROM ANOTHER STATE!
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Ryan Suter
Namaste, I think they should maybe consider going to the old New England areas where the early Christian Churches in the USA were (and still are.) Massachusetts , or Maryland or any of the New England colonies where the early Christian Churches in the USA were and are still. And the New England Area is near DC, so they would have the access to the leadership that they might need.
Why not New England where the old Christian Churches in the USA began?
Rev. Dr. Ryan S.
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Robert Bruce Kelsey
For Carl and Kathleen, Carl, I'm a bit puzzled by your remark that the Founders weren't Christian. Many were Deists, which might not count as "Christian" from a Fundamentalist perspective but still presumed a monotheist creator as described in the Christian Bible. And Locke's position on rights, which we echo in our Declaration, and his view of "the state of nature" in his Second Treatise are derived from and justified by appeal to Genesis and the Judeo-Christian God. Carl, what have you read that I haven't but ought to? Kathleen, your comment and quote from Jefferson cut to the heart of the issue. The Founders (regardless of their religious position) seem to have been inclusionist - Puritans, Quakers, Baptists, et alia. All had freedom of worship (to use Jefferson's nice distinction in his Danbury Baptist letter), but not to command compliance. There's an irony here perhaps - in their desire to isolate themselves and exclude those who disagree with them, these segregationists are, in effect, not saving the true America from 'corruption' of ideology, morality, or whatever - they are being un-American if one defines that as the tolerant approach taken by the Founders.
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Alun Palmer
Confederacy Mark Two
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Ben
Ya know what? I agree. Send the religious right & all Trump worshippers to Alabama. Build a wall around it and kick that state out if the Union.
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Jerry
Ben, those against Trump are not very godly, unless of course abortions are godly, expecting the gays and lesbians to be above those of us that are Christian's, to allow the rules and laws of our great country to be broken and expecting the rules to be changed to fit there agenda, Sharia Law is against the Constitution of the USA, for this discussion to be turned political against the Leader of this land i feel is inappropriate for this forumn, but since you brought it up and it is hot in the news let's look at the antitrumpers stand on abortion, they think it's a women's right to destroy a life growing in the supposed safest spot for a baby to grow, but God tells use that's not the case many times thru the Bible, God also shows us what to expect in the end where right will be wrong, men will lay with men, ext ext, many of the things the antitrumpers want to force us to accept, so tell me again how what you said was appropriate Ben,
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Charles Morgan
I think you should actually try reading the Bible. These passages and more refute your claim that the Bible protects fetuses and children. Fetuses were treated like women in those days, as the property of the father or husband and abortion was even a test for adultery. (Exodus 21:22-25) (Numbers 5:11-31) (Deuteronomy 28:18,53) (2 Kings 8:12) (2 Kings 15:16) (Hosea 9:10-16) (Matthew 24:19)
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The Doctor
First off, yes it is a womans right. Why you may ask? Well its easy, because nothing has more of a right to my body then me. If I want to donate an organ, or my blood, or risk my life in the service of others, that is my choice to make.
A fetus is not entitled to a womans resources, her time, to the risk on her health and life. If she wishes to share these things and grow that fetus into an offspring that is her choice alone.
And really Jerry enough with the bible this and god says that shiite. It is all invalid. An archaic book written and rewritten countless times is not a rule book anyone should be following.
You want to take it as a guide for personal beliefs fine and dandy. keep those beliefs in your home and behind your closed mouth. Because verbal assault and harassment , attacking people with words and acting like the victim when they actively provoke violence, is a trick that like with chicken little has lost its effect.
Now days when we hear about some chrstian looney throwing buckets of blood at women going into clinics the accepted and expected response is to have that looney get face first intimate with the pavement.
You want the right to believe as you do and be left alone, then leave society alone.
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Laurie Cleveland
Ffirst of all, there should be no restrictions on the Second Amendment unless the person has demonstrated that they have a mental illness which precludes owning a gun. Secondly, there is no need to do this. I realize that radical Muslims are taking over by taking public office. 2 states, Mn and Wi have already been taken over. This is a problem, but so are these people. They are falling into the trap that has been set. If they wanted to make a difference, then they need to become politically active and stop the planned takeover by The Muslim Brotherhood . Both are far on the pendulum This group of Christinsj 8 very far to the right and The Mislin Brotherhood is far to the left. Eventually, these 2 groups will clash
I feel strongly that the way to handle this is to run for office. There needs to be a balance and both sides think that they are right. Truth be told, if you don't say "no" now, you who are in middle and do not also agree or disagree with the current laws and work to make them more equitable and inclusive for both sides.
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Bob Anderson
"The Muslim Brotherhood" is far to the left"?? Islam and its accompanying Sharia law are are far right as you can get.
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minister james
thank you, Bob. Our seeming general incapacity to think critically, and realize life is not (as much as we would like it to be) black-and-white, but very complex, is illustrated here. Intolerant religions are intolerant religions no matter their label, as well-noted by you, Laurie, but your political labeling (indeed, semantically, 'left/right' and 'liberal/conservative have become throwaway/null terms in today's public discourse) is confusing. Extreme proponents of ANY faith/dogma/political view always have, and always will, pose a dagger at the heart of any successful country, ours in particular, where the Constitution is not intended to be the 'property' of any group, but of ALL citizens, regardless of their political/religious makeup. How could either of these extreme Christian/extreme Muslim groups (and I DON'T acknowledge that the two have overweening, or even equal, power in the legislatures of the nation) have developed such vicious divisions as both, as I understand it, share a common 'patriarch' (and therefore ?core? 'patriarchal' beliefs) in Abraham?
Seems to me the all-too-fallible hands of man on anything, even with the best of intentions, renders blanket divine pronouncements from any highly-organized theology suspect, at best. Does one truly wish to KNOW (if that is one's INDIVIDUAL belief) a God, i.e.: govern your own day-to-day responsibilities and actions in this plane of existence in the context of that personal relationship? Or, do we wish to use a professed theological belief as an imprimatur to BE a God, i.e.: use the belief to affect and control the actions of your fellow man while feeling wrapped in the warm cotton wool of a sense of moral superiority?
May we all find a better day.
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Nicholas FICI
Sheer nonsense! It boggles the mind to think how this poor delude individual came to be this way. Turn-off the f'n TV that's stuck on FOX News. Read their scripture and chill.
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Amy Varela
Laurie, which radical Muslims are taking over by taking public office? Or are you talking about the radical Christians who are infesting the White House? Because that is a thing that is happening.
For everyone to be treated equally, we have to take all mention of God and religion out of the government. Nobody should get any special treatment based on their religious beliefs or lack thereof.
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Dr. Michael Glick
Regardless of the reasoning of the folks who want to have this new Christian state, they have neglected to consider how this would be accomplished. I believe that under the Constitution we currently have in place it is a non starter. No reasonable way to accomplish this plan. All out war with the remainder of the Union following a declared secession would not last long!! Really. Come on folks: think clearly. This is beyond preposterous.
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Don
1797 Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
*mic drop
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Carrie
If they want their own state, why don't they move to Libya! One Sharia law verses another! Besides, I'm sure these holy rollers would be just fine being thrown into the hottest, most desolate section of the Sahara....Perhaps they can be walled there? This country....All Of It....belongs to the nation as a whole, not some smarmy demigogs who want to carve off a piece. They can have neighborhoods like the rest of us! On the other hand, that part of the country is called the Badlands for a reason. Any manufacturing is nonexistant and no one will buy anything they make but hey, Chic-a-fill-a can have a place to call their own...no one can buy, or eat on Sunday!
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Joe
And there's Samolia for those who we should open the prisons and stop picking on criminals.
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Kathleen Baird
The Founding Fathers did NOT propose a "Christian country". They had seen the hatred and intolerance that government sponsored religion created in the countries they left. The Spanish Inquisition, the systemic persecution of Catholics or Protestants or Jews, etc. etc. all gave them a reason to create a government with separation of Church and State. Thomas Jefferson said, "If a man believes in 10 gods, or no gods, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. The business of the government is to protect the people" The biggest problem with the proposal of these ultra religious people is their intolerance of other ideas. They want converts to their way of thinking, and any man, woman or child who does not totally agree with them is considered a sinner who needs punishment. It seems like a good idea, at first, to stick these people all in one place, but the hatred always spills out onto the innocent.
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Gil
I agree completely. It's pathetic enough imo that we have the audacity to boast 'united we stand' and 'united states', considering we are as divided as humanly possible. Classic divide and conquer. Honestly, if we all just minded our own damn business, at no expense to others, most of humanities problems would be nonexistant. Do what you what so long as it doesn't infringe upon other's safety, liberty and freedom. You can't call a terrible idea a 'good idea'.. And you can't name a state 'Liberty' if it infringes upon other's liberty.. Idc how hypocritical the rest of the world becomes..i call it how I see it.
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Carl Elfstrom
Only certain Christin extremists ever thought this was a christian country. The rest of us never thought so. Most of our founders weren't even Christians. Not only should they have their own state, let's put it on an Island, far away from the mainland, and let them call it their own nation.
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
just make sure they can't get their hands on uranium.
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ET
They could just move to a Christian country. Why split this one up.
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Lionheart
Totally agree!
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ET
America is a secular country. We were founded on the premise that “all men are created equal...”. Religious and spiritual belief is personal. How arrogant are those who denigrate others beliefs because theirs is the “only path”. Live and let live. Respect that not all think alike.
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Bob M.
AMEN... Thank you for posting reason and not emotion.
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Rev. Brien
There are others that beieve the same way and they too want their own state... Islamic extremists. I think it would be a great lesson in the failures of mankind to get all of these holier than tho groups together and just let them have at it.
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Skye Riversong
Lincoln was right: a house divided cannot stand. no.
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susan jones
Works for me. Let them all go live there and leave the rest of us alone.
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Jim
Should be interesting.
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Katelynne Victoria Shouse
Good riddance to bad rubbish!
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susan jones
Amen! :-)
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Katelynne Victoria Shouse
Well......BYE!
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William Phillips
Yes!
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Ryan Suter
Namaste, Just some scriptures about this:
John 18:36 New King James Version (NKJV) 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
Matthew 10:22-24 New King James Version (NKJV) 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.
Mark 13:13 New King James Version (NKJV) 13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who [a]endures to the end shall be saved.
Luke 21:17 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.
Best Regards, Rev. Dr. Ryan S.
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Larry Wahlman
As my precious lord jesus said, god is a spirit, why do people keep aligning themselves with unchristian views n values
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God shall bring on the wrath of Small Pox and it shall wipe the land free of sinners. That is a good place for all of them to go.